Is National Shelter-In-Place Coming Soon?

And what would that look like?

Stay home? Just before midnight on Sunday, the president tweeted (in all caps) that in order to make sure the COVID-19 "cure" isn't "worse than the problem itself," American authorities will "make a decision as to which way we want to go" at the "end of the 15 day period" that started on March 16th.

Obviously, and non-controversially, our institutions should keep reassessing their reactions to the new coronavirus in order to determine the best solutions. But Trump seems to be suggesting that in eight days American businesses might start reopening and our self-quarantines might start ending. That seems overly optimistic (in fitting with the White House's general COVID-19 response).

This morning, the president went a step further, retweeting someone who suggested that  soon only high-risk individuals would have to isolate themselves:

https://twitter.com/steph93065/status/1241937567412621313

Meanwhile, some U.S. lawmakers want to see a national shelter-in-place order for at least two weeks.

On Monday morning, Rep. Ro Khanna (D–Calif.) started circulating a letter that calls for an immediate order instituting a national, two-week shelter-in-place.

Our nation needs an immediate shelter in place for at least two weeks.

Who will step up and join me in this call?

We have to act swiftly to save lives.#COVIDActNow

— Rep. Ro Khanna (@RepRoKhanna) March 23, 2020

A number of states have now enacted "shelter in place" or "stay at home" orders, including California, Delaware, Illinois, Louisiana, Ohio, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania.

"Shelter in place" isn't quite as scary as it seems, since people can still leave their homes for a variety of reasons. "Shelter-in-place isn't a legal term," explains WAMU:

In most places, businesses deemed non-essential have been ordered to close all physical locations. The federal government gives states broad authority when it comes to designating what's essential or not, but places like restaurants, bars, nightclubs, hair salons and retail shops have generally been categorized as non-essential.

Gas stations, grocery & convenience stores, banks and pharmacies are among the businesses most jurisdictions consider essential and are allowed to remain open….

No state is yet preventing people from leaving their homes completely, and the strictness of the measures varies by jurisdiction. Most states include a number of exceptions to shelter-in-place, including going to work, grocery shopping, walking the dog, going out for a run or bike ride or getting medical care.

And as of yet (thank goodness), no one is setting up checkpoints, randomly demanding to know where people are going, or otherwise instituting a police state.

But most of the states with shelter-in-place orders "have made violating the orders a misdemeanor, often punishable by a fine," says WAMU. So far, enforcement has mostly been on an honor system; I don't imagine that will last for too long.

Would a national shelter-in-place order make a federal crime out of such violations? Let's hope not…

As of this morning, details of the draft order to be circulated among Congress were still being worked out, Khanna's office said.

Who would enforce the national shelter-in-place order? What penalties it would it bring? Who would get to decide to extend the ban, for how long at a time, and under what circumstances? (The Trump administration might just decide it likes this sort of power.) Would local governments still get to determine for themselves what businesses, services, and types of travel are essential, or would that be up to the feds? (Again, a scary prospect, no matter which party is in power.)

In general, the more we trust local leaders to know what's best for their own communities, the less we risk massive civil liberties abuses and financial ruin. This is especially true in our current political climate.

---

FREE MARKETS

https://twitter.com/AnneKaring/status/1241493005623754756

---

FREE MINDS

China ???????? is one of only 11 #FreedomInTheWorld countries that engaged in ethnic cleansing or forced demographic change, and its treatment of Uighurs in 2019 is the result of decades of minority persecution.

Learn more about the situation in China at https://t.co/WeFjEvWQUj pic.twitter.com/H9WDLqmMn9

— Freedom House (@freedomhouse) March 23, 2020

---

QUICK HITS

• A loss of smell or taste may be an early sign of COVID-19 infection.
• Apple is donating millions of masks to health care workers.
• Sen. Rand Paul (R–Ky.) and incarcerated former movie producer Harvey Weinstein are among those who have reportedly tested positive for COVID-19.
• Lawyer and Above the Law blog founder David Lat, who chronicled his early days of feeling ill (and not being able to get tested), was put on a ventilator over the weekend and deemed to be in critical condition.
• In Germany—where Prime Minister Angela Merkel is quarantining after interacting with a doctor who tested positive for COVID-19—the government is banning meetings of two or more people.
• Japan gets realistic about the 2020 Olympic Games:

#BREAKING: Japan PM Abe says Tokyo Olympics cannot be held under current circumstances - @kyodo_official

— Amichai Stein (@AmichaiStein1) March 23, 2020

• Is now a terrible time to buy a home?
• "If lawmakers don't allow farmers markets to remain open, the impact on many small farm businesses will be swift, severe, and in many cases fatal," writes Baylen Linnekin.
• Delivery of many non-essential items on Amazon are being delayed a month.
• At Rikers prison, 21 inmates, 12 employees, and five health workers have tested positive for COVID-19.
• California lawmakers call on the Food and Drug Administration to end the ban on gay and bisexual men donating blood:

For years, I've opposed the discriminatory ban on gay & bisexual men from donating blood if they have been sexually active in the last year. It's not science based, it's bigoted & dangerous. Today, I join Senator @Scott_Wiener in calling on the FDA to immediately repeal the ban! pic.twitter.com/Jh4AHsU5IA

— Ash Kalra ???? (@Ash_Kalra) March 22, 2020

• The trouble with a new antitrust bill.
• 3D-printed masks might not work: a thread. Start here:

3D printed masks-
I have been 3D printing wearables for years. You can 3D print a bikini because your body conforms to the plastic- which is flexible but not really soft. The bones in your face don't conform this way. A TPU mask is not soft enough to create an airtight seal. https://t.co/tvMRq8QXEs pic.twitter.com/76Ib5RIXsU

— Naomi Wu 机械妖姬 (@RealSexyCyborg) March 19, 2020

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Stay home?

Done and done. I don't like people anyway.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hello,

I've been practicing social distancing as a matter of principle since I was born.

No skin off my back.

[BigT]

It’s not you, it’s the others who are distancing from you, obv.

[Rufus The Monocled]

But I switched to Mitchum!

[jayven]

[ For USA ]
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[Fist of Etiquette]

Who would enforce the national shelter-in-place order?

Sigh. Fine, I'll do it.

[Rich]

"You! Toilet papers please."

[BigT]

My city will be a shelter in place sanctuary city. Do not Gimme Shelter!

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Trump is such an authoritarian that he won't even issue a national order for everyone to stay in their house!

[loveconstitution1789]

Martial Law ain't happening.

Johns Hopkins Sick Map added cases by county.
Coronavirus COVID-19 Global Cases by the Center for Systems Science and Engineering (CSSE) at Johns Hopkins University (JHU)

It appears to have infected at least a few people in most counties around the USA.

Still nothing like if we saw infection rates of Influenza 2017-18 where 45 million Americans were infected and 79,000 died.

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

Did anyone happen to notice that we now have so-called "libertarians" here at Reason welcoming the prospect of martial law, and basically saying "We should trust government, they know what's best for us"?

[Leo Kovalensky II]

No. I haven't noticed that.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Yeah, me neither.

[loveconstitution1789]

unreason never lies through omission.

The fact that unreason has no articles describing that Martial Law is crossing the line and could start Civil War 2.0, means nothing.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

NEW HEIGHTS OF HYSTERIA!!
ANOTHER FUCKUP BY THE KING OF BULLSHIT!

IT'S NOT MARTIAL LAW ... BECAUSE TRUMP PLACED THE TROOPS UNDER COMMAND OF THE GOVERNORS OF CA, NY AND WA .... WHICH MEANS HE MADE AN ASS OF YOU, IN FRONT OF THE ENTIRE WORLD.

SO THE WHINY PUSSY BLAMES REASON! ... FOR NOT BEING STOOPID!

martial law
[ˈˌmärSHəl ˈlô]
NOUN
military government, involving the suspension of ordinary law.

From BREITBART, NOT MSNBC, GOOBER
Trump has now endorsed even the most severe restrictions by state governors … again throwing the alt-right under a bus, as he struggles to restore his crippled legacy

TRUMP ACTIVATES NATIONAL GUARD IN CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK AND WASHINGTON TO HELP ENFORCE STATE RESTRICTIONS … FEDERAL PAYS, GOVERNORS IN COMMAND

President Donald Trump announced at the White House on Sunday that he had activated the National Guard in California, New York, and Washington.

“I know that this is a challenging time for all Americans. We are enduring a great national trial,” Trump said. “We’re at war. In a true sense, we’re at war.”

It’s NOT a Democrat hoax?? NOW he tells us!

Trump said that he activated the National Guard under Title 32 status, allowing the guard to remain under the control of the governor, but is paid for by the federal government.

Officials clarified that activating the National Guard would provide important resources to governors, but that it was playing an assistant role in the fight against the virus.

“I want you to understand, this is not martial law,” FEMA Administrator Peter Gaynor said.

(If martial law, the troops would be in charge - as we learned in high school)

Trump deserves praise, for publicly reversing two months of delays, denials and blatant lies ... "A Democrat hoax! .... "It will magically go away."
Now, his alt-right cult remains the only national threat greater than COVID-19. EVEN FOX NEWS HAS DISOWNED YOU!

****WHY IS THIS ROCKET SCIENCE TO lc1789????

1) COVID-19 is 25 times more deadly than swine flu was, before vaccine.

2) COVID-19 is 5-10 times more deadly than seasonal flu, with a vaccine and 100 exposure

3) LC1789 would increase COVID-19 exposure from 5% to ???, as quickly as possible, with no vaccine and no cure.

The PURPOSE of preventive measures is to delay full COVID-19 exposure .... until a vaccine can be developed, which will take 12-18 months ... and there is now NO proven cure.

DUH

Vice President Pence, a former governor and the leader of the federal response to the coronavirus, urged Americans on Monday to respect state and local restrictions that are in many cases tougher than those imposed by the Trump administration.

"We made it clear to the governors that this president and this administration fully supports decisions that governors are making in communities and states that are particularly impacted by the spread of the coronavirus and we are grateful for their efforts," Pence said

[Shitlord of the Woodchippers]

You should commit suicide right away.

[Commenter_XY]

Weigel...I am no fan of martial law. That said, we are facing a completely novel situation, with surface similarities to what happened over a century ago. There are lessons from that experience we can apply (social distancing).

In the absence of good data, it is reasonable to have a short, time-bound measures to address this pandemic. An error in judgment would be catastrophic. Today is March 23. We will have good data in 8 to 9 days. Then we can make good, data driven decisions.

Sit tight. This will pass.

[loveconstitution1789]

This disease is not as contagious nor as deadly as the Influenza of 2017-18 and none of the current shutdowns and government lockdowns occurred.

Martial Law is an overreaction and will be fatal to our Constitutional Democratic Republic.

[Commenter_XY]

1789, you are making assertions that we do not know to be the case = the degree of contagion or lethality of the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic. Are you really so certain all that data from a century ago is completely reliable? Think that one through, will you?

Maybe you want to trust Chinese data. I do not. EU data is better, but scanty right now.

We are literally 9 days away from having a very solid data set, based on US pop only. It is reasonable, prudent and legal to have temporary, time-bound restrictions to get the data we need to make good decisions based on objective clinical data.

We do not have martial law today, and I don't think a national martial law declaration is in the cards. It was clear from POTUS Trump's remarks on Sunday that he does not want a national quarantine.

[loveconstitution1789]

The Spanish Flu of 1918 was estimated to be between 17 million and 100 million people Worldwide.

Even if we go by the low number of 17 million deaths, we are at 15,436 deaths Worldwide. Out of 354,677+ infected and 100,462 recovered.

Never going to be close to any number remotely justifying severe government response.

If this was a biological weapon, tell us. We need to turn that nation into glass immediately. They are a menace to humankind.

If this is simply a mutation or random biological event, then all adults need to get sick if they want and care for sick people. Start the economy back up and end this hysteria.

[loveconstitution1789]

Let's see the LINOs lie about supporting NAP when the USA was attacked.

I personally dont think it's a biological weapon because those are designed to be more effective and deadly. The idea is to tie down military resources and kill the target population.

I hope this is not some sort of binary biological weapon where Part 1 is COVID19 and Part 2 is something else. Where separately they arent that bad but combined wipe out large parts of the World.

[Commenter_XY]

What we need to do is think, 1789. Right now, the best course of action is to mitigate, contain and treat people afflicted with the Wuhan coronavirus. The most effective mitigation measure we have presently is social distancing, and enhanced hygiene.

I really don't see a martial law declaration. Too soon to determine the origin of the Wuhan coronavirus. We can leave that for later.

[loveconstitution1789]

I'm not so sure hiding from the virus is the best course of action.

I personally am okay with getting it.

As we find out its not as deadly as we thought, I would rather get it now and get the two weeks recovery over with.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

BILL GATES CALLED OUT LC1789'S HYSTERIA ... YEARS AGO!

BILL GATES PREDICTED A VIRUS CATASTROPHE …. IN 2015

"We are not ready for the next epidemic," said Gates in 2015. (He) mentioned the details about Ebola and stated that "the problem was not that system did not work well enough but the problem was we did not have any system at all."

In the Ted Talk titled 'The next outbreak? We're not ready', Bill Gates predicted that the next outbreak would be more devastating than Ebola.

"The failure to prepare could allow the next epidemic to be dramatically more devastating than Ebola."

Gates cited the fact that Ebola did not reach many urban cities or else the results would have been greater. "Next time we might not be so lucky," His words have somehow predicted the Coronavirus epidemic's dangers.

COVID-19 has barely begun … and has ALREADY hit major urban centers, worldwide.

YOUR ORANGE GOD DID THIS ... HUMILIATING YOU PEOPLE.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

MOAR HYSTERIA! TOTALLY FULL OF SHIT ON
a) MARSHALL LAW means the military replaces civilian law
b) BAT-SHIT CRAZY on how deadly!!

AS ALWAYS ... PROOF!

COVID-19 DEATH RATE WORSE THAN ANY FLU ...25X WORSE THAN SWINE FLU
***********”Less than two years ago, the seasonal flu was especially deadly. It killed an estimated 61,000 Americans, but it didn’t overwhelm health care workers and hospitals, as COVID-19 did in Italy and threatens to in the U.S. Those people (with seasonal flu) were spread out from November to April or May. Our healthcare system is designed to handle that kind of load. Not so with COVID-19.”

“The challenge with COVID-19 is we are all eligible to get sick and spread the disease all at the same time.”

ELIGIBLE, because none are immune, unlike seasonal flu. DUH

Last week, Trump said this at a news conference in the Oval Office: “If you go back and look at the swine flu and what happened with the swine flu, you’ll see how many people died and how actually nothing was done for such a long period of time, as people were dying all over the place.”

STILL BLAMING OBAMA - LIKE OBAMA KEPT BLAMING BUSH omfg
Dying BECAUSE nothing was done! And this is 25 times worse (keep reading)

Data from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention track the increase of H1N1 swine flu in 2009 from the day of the first death – April 28th, 2009 -- compared with the rise of COVID-19 since the first U.S. coronavirus death was reported in Washington on Feb. 29.

… the CDC had confirmed 4,226 COVID-19 cases in 16 days since the first death.

At the same stage in 2009, the CDC had tallied 3,352 H1N1 cases.

But, contrary to Trump’s claims, the death rate for COVID-19 has far outpaced H1N1 over the same span.

The CDC had confirmed 75 COVID-19 deaths through Monday. By contrast, 16 days after the first swine flu death, there were only three H1N1 deaths reported to the CDC.

COVID-19 is 25 times more deadly than swine flu

The CDC estimates about 12,000 Americans ended up dying from swine flu between April 2009 and April 2010.

12,000 x 25 = 300,000
For low IQ Gomers, see simple charts at the source

**”… (swine flu) didn’t go away. Many people don’t realize it’s now part of the seasonal flu and covered by the annual flu vaccine. … COVID-19 is completely new, is hitting on top of the seasonal flu, has no vaccine and clearly warrants the stronger response because nobody is immune. " “The challenge with COVID-19 is we are all eligible to get sick and spread the disease all at the same time

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

SEE LC1789 ADMIT ALL HIS HYSTERIA ABOUT MARTIAL LAW IS ... BULLSHIT! SWITCHING TO NEW HYSTERIAS

https://reason.com/2020/03/23/is-national-shelter-in-place-coming-soon/#comment-8179198

[Gray_Jay]

What data are you going to have in 8-9 days, that you don't have now? And when that new data doesn't appear to your satisfaction at the end of this 8-9 day period, are you going to ask for more time, or are you going to let everyone (except the vulnerable) get back to work?

There is no feasible amount of time that the US can spread this curve over, and not overload our ICU/CCU and respiratory assistance capacity. Medicine in this country has been driven by cost-cutting and economizing for too long. There is little to no excess capacity.

So, since the hospitals, worse case, are going to be overloaded no matter what you do, what is the benefit of continuing to keep the population confined and out of work?

[loveconstitution1789]

They have but are not publishing data on negative test results.

That would give us some idea how being around someone infected does not guarantee infection. That precautions like the Flu would be perfectly reasonable and care for the sick.

Then we restart the economy.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

TRUMP HAS SOLD HIS SOUL TO THE DEEP STATE
-hateconstitution1789

They have but are not publishing data on negative test results.

LIAR. THAT'S HOW THE ARRIVE AT THE PERCENTAGE.
JUNIOR HIGH MATH! *OMFG*

[ElvisIsReal]

Yeah if we're only testing the most severe cases in those 8 or 9 days, like we're doing now, the numbers are going to look EVEN MORE SCARY. That will also be true in 2 months.

Without getting a randomized sample of people who have or HAVE HAD this thing, we're going to keep panicking because we're only looking at the most severe cases and trying to extrapolate based on that.

All this work to flatten the curve and we don't even know where on the curve we are!

[loveconstitution1789]

We have people utterly losing their minds over even getting this virus. It's not that kind of virus.

Hysteria is driving this and most Americans where I live are just laughing about the hysteria. Old people still going to stores.

We need to get past this hysteria stage and focus on solving this with minimal interruption of Americans life. It's doable.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

The only VALID comparison between COVID-19 and swine flu is to compare HOW FAST each one spread – how fast did the death toll mount? (How many died after the same number of days? )

COVID-19 DEATH RATE 25X WORSE THAN SWINE FLU

As Chicken Little lc1789 screams all down the page. "THE SKY IS FALLING! THE SKY IS FALLING!"

[Commenter_XY]

Gray_Jay, you ask fair questions, and I shall answer them.

What data are you going to have in 8-9 days, that you don’t have now? Answer: We will have incidence data within the population who exhibit COVID-19 like symptoms (looks to be ~10%). We will also have a firm rate on hospitalization rates (looks to be ~15%-20%). We will have much more detailed information on co-morbidities, particluarly those with auto-immune conditions, for whom we have zippo data (millions of people here).

And when that new data doesn’t appear to your satisfaction at the end of this 8-9 day period, are you going to ask for more time, or are you going to let everyone (except the vulnerable) get back to work? Answer: We will have north of 2 millions tests done by that time, so no, a lack of data will not be an issue. To answer you directly, it depends. If we knew with a metaphysical certainty that renewing a 15-day self-isolation regime would 'break the back' of the pandemic in the US, I would do it and then it is over.

I don't want indecision and uncertainty any more than anyone else. I really do think that at the rate we are testing, we will have really solid data - this week. We blew past 300K tests yesterday, and that number will rise very rapidly.

[Gray_Jay]

Isn't that kind of data available from Singapore and SK's experience battling this pandemic? Moreover why do you think we'll be able to get good enough data of that sort in less than two weeks?

I agree, it would be useful to have. I'm just not sure that's enough time to get it.

On your 15 day and break the back statement, you realize a vaccine won't be available, and unless the CQ/Azithromax cocktail is effective, there really won't be any treatment beyond supportive measures. Further, I doubt we'll get to 1/R0 infected, so we won't have herd immunity in the population.

Therefore, the broken-back pandemic will be at risk of restarting with the introduction of sufficient new cases. Like those coming through our southern (and hell, northern) border.

[Commenter_XY]

Isn’t that kind of data available from Singapore and SK’s experience battling this pandemic? Answer: Yes, for their fairly homogeneous populations.

Moreover why do you think we’ll be able to get good enough data of that sort in less than two weeks? Answer: We had 300K tested thru yesterday, with roughly 12,000 private hospitals who have not reported yet, and will be included in stats by Wednesday/Thursday. And tens of thousands (if not more) being tested daily. We are building a very robust data set.

I advocate caution. What is two weeks in the life of any person, or a nation? Merely a few moments in time. This is a time for caution.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

If our Top Men were actually saying "this is only going to be a couple of weeks," you might have a point. But that's not what's happening. Like I've pointed out elsewhere, these are indefinite orders. Thanks to the panic-mongering, people are going to start freaking out as the number of identified cases goes up and more old people die off in that time frame.

This is the reality--these governments have, at most, two months to get people back to work, irrespective of the actual number of cases, or our economy is going to be good and fucked for a long damn time. And the second-order effects from THAT would be far worse than the death counts from this illness. Socially speaking, they may not even have a month because people are already pushing back against these draconian orders, and will continue to do so in increasing numbers the longer it goes on--to the point that some of these elected officials might have to avoid lead poisoning via kinetic delivery if they stupidly insist on pushing this shit through the summer.

That's the reality of trying to force an inherently social species from trying to socialize with one another.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

Like I’ve pointed out elsewhere, these are indefinite orders.

TRUMP SAYS 15 DAYS
PER FOX NEWS, CHICKEN(SHIT) LITTLE!!
https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-coronavirus-guidelines-15-days-crisis-summer-recession

[Commenter_XY]

Red, I think a 15 day period (March 15 - March 30) of limited restrictions is a reasonable trade-off to make in the face of a pandemic for which transmissability and lethality are unknown. I simply disagree that the 'Top Men' are pushing for restrictions to last to....whenever they say. That is simply not the case.

For me, it comes down to a few simple questions.
- Does a national emergency exist? Answer: Yes
- Are the restrictions limited? Answer: Yes
- Are the restrictions temporary and time bound? Answer: Yes

What we have in CA, NY, WA is different from most of the country, presently. The infection rates are significantly higher. I could foresee temporary (emphasis on temporary) restrictions being in place somewhat longer. By this, I mean days and weeks, not months.

We are now getting good data. Very shortly, we will have enough data to start making informed, data driven decisions. We are almost there.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

We already have RELEVANT data for swine flu vs CORVID-19, Relevant to how it's spreading, because they tracks deaths from the first death of each.

It was hard for me to believe the first US death was only 16 days, last Thursday.

On infections, coronavirus has slightly more than swine flu

Deaths are a different story. COVID had 75 deaths in 16 days. Swine flu had only THREE.

So it's quite accurate to say that COVID is far more deadly than swine flu ... 25X more deadly, the only comparison of any use to our responses. Not how many, but how fast is it spreading.

COVID-19 DEATH RATE 25X WORSE THAN SWINE FLU

The numbers are quite simple. There also comparison charts, infections and deaths, day-by-day

Any comparisons which are not day-by-day,have no value at all.

[Brandybuck]

Sort of like in 2016 when so-called "libertarians" here at Reason were welcoming our new orange-haired overlord, and basically saying "We should trust Trump, he knows what's best for us. He's OUR authoritarian!"

[Mother's lament]

Trump is only authoritarian in the headspace of good little bien pensants like you.
Keep on gobbling up the narrative.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

Trump is only authoritarian in the headspace of good little bien pensants like you.

TRUMP HAS PLACED FEDERAL TROOPS UNDER THE COMMAND OF GOVERNORS IN CA, NY AND WA ... PAID BY THE FEDS

**OVER 24 HOURS AGO ...YOU CAN'T EVEN KEEP UP WITH TOP NEWS!

[Freddy the Jerk]

And who exactly said that?

[R Mac]

Probably nobody. But lefties lie now more than ever.

[loveconstitution1789]

Another thing that I noticed is that the Southern Hemisphere has tens of thousands fewer infections. It appears that every nation on Earth has at least one infection case.

Whether that has to do with temperature of the regions to slow infection is interesting.

[MP]

That almost certainly has to do with poverty and levels of disposable income.

[loveconstitution1789]

If you mean that travel is the reason for the rates of infection we see.

It appears a great many infections in the Northern Hemisphere were spread through local contacts once the virus was spread by outside travel.

So, since every nation has at least one infected person. That person interacted with x number of local people. Yet Southern hemisphere rates of infection are not rising like they are in the Northern Hemisphere.

Now this could be due to fewer testing kits but higher rates of people would die presumably since the medical care is magnitudes worse. This is not happening. Or not being reported.

[ElvisIsReal]

One of my friends brought this up the other day, and I had to mention that in poor countries there aren't that many people who get old enough to be bothered by this thing.

[loveconstitution1789]

Hmmm. That is a good point, if true. In poorer nations, old people dont live as long.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

Another thing that I noticed is that the Southern Hemisphere has tens of thousands fewer infections.

It started in the Northern Hemisphere.

[Fist of Etiquette]

The Trump administration might just decide it likes this sort of power.

And the resultant economic upheaval? I doubt it. But it's a good boogeyman to dangle in front of the crowd that generally wants the state to have that kind of power.

[R Mac]

Reason just can’t help themselves from throwing in a bullshit statement like this. Sad.

[Illocust]

Good, we should reevaluate the situation at two weeks. We should have the data at that point to see if another week is needed or if we can start playing back into normal.

[Let MAGA off at the next stop]

Yep

[loveconstitution1789]

Step up, feds: Nationalize glove and mask production and distribution

Did I miss the state filing of civil actions against President Trump for abuse of power by the Executive Branch?

Maybe I missed where Pelosi and the Democrat clown show filed another set of Impeachment Articles against President Trump for Abuse of Power by the Executive?

[Leo Kovalensky II]

I'll give Trump credit here. He has avoided drastic steps like nationalizing industries, "national shelter in place," etc. Certainly a Democrat would have done these by now. Likely someone like GW Bush as well.

Let's hope Trump keeps this up.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Agreed

[Fist of Etiquette]

Apple is donating millions of masks to health care workers.

If those masks start functioning slower they'll know it's time to get the newer version.

[Don't look at me!]

The Microsoft masks are prone to virus infections.

[loveconstitution1789]

And constant model upgrades daily.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

The Microsoft masks are held together by a paperclip.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

That never freaking shuts up.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

They probably got them next door from the production factory in China.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Sen. Rand Paul (R–Ky.) and incarcerated former movie producer Harvey Weinstein are among those who have reportedly tested positive for COVID-19.

Could Trump and Hitler be next?

[Earth Skeptic]

Wait, I thought Trump is Hitler.

[Mother's lament]

For the discerning Prog palate, Hitler comes in different flavors; Bushitler, Orange Hitler, etc.

[Don't look at me!]

Why are we testing in prisoned felons? Aren’t we short on testing kits?

[loveconstitution1789]

The state is 100% responsible for prisoners.

If they all get sick and suffer, that is not right. They are totally dependent on the state to care for them.

Cruel and unusual punishment comes to mind.

[loveconstitution1789]

Honestly, the criminal justice system should be in a holding pattern and not send any new inmates to prisons. Test all guards daily to minimize chances of bringing in virus to facilities.

Governors should be pardoning/releasing all low level non-violent prisoners.

[Sevo]

"Honestly, the criminal justice system should be in a holding pattern and not send any new inmates to prisons..."

DOJ proposed delaying trials, people screamed "TRUMP SOMETHING HABEAS CORPUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

[Chipper Morning Wood]

That's not why people were screaming habeas corpus. People were screaming habeas corpus because the DOJ wanted to implement indefinite detentions.

[loveconstitution1789]

According to the media, which has lied and continues to lie.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

DOJ proposed delaying trials, people screamed “TRUMP SOMETHING HABEAS CORPUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”

Nobody meaningful screamed that, psycho.
BUT LC1789 IS SCREECHING "MARTIAL LAW" .. ?THE DIPWAD THINKS THE MILITARY HAS REPLACED CIVILIAN LAW!!!!!

[Gray_Jay]

Are the criminals going to agree, and stop committing crimes, LC?

[loveconstitution1789]

Who knows. Doubtful since many are repeat offenders statistically.

Plus, jobs are not as plentiful as 4 weeks ago.

I live in an area where violent crimes are dealt with by armed victims on the spot. Most people being home more makes burglary harder since you have a greater chance to get shot.

Drug abusers will go back to drugs and likely get the virus and die. Problem solved.

I'm a Libertarian, so letting people have a second chance and be judged for their own actions is something that I'm big on. Trapping people in a jail or prison and let them die because medical care in jail sucks, is wrong. They committed a crime but not all those crimes deserve a death sentence.

I would point out that pre-trial detainees die in jail on a regular basis and the system was at full operating capacity. Prisoners and pre-trial detainess will get fucked over by guards who will choose themselves over prisoners.

[Gray_Jay]

No, if they're in jail for a violent crime, either convicted of it, or enough evidence exists that they did it that they didn't get bail, fuck 'em. And if someone new commits a violent crime, and we have the same amount of evidence against them as above, they can go to the hole too.

Fuck his second chance. What about my first chance to not be the victim of a violent crime?

Not enforcing the law is not going to make it easier to maintain a quarantine. Rather the opposite.

[loveconstitution1789]

I was mainly talking about non-violent crimes but even violent defendants are entitled under the Constitution to non-excessive bail.

There is really no reason to have non-violent defendants in jail right now if they have no other detainers (parole violation, etc). Give all the low level offenders a summons or early release and go after them if they continue to commit crimes during this grace period of second chances.

[ElvisIsReal]

Well if it turns out that this thing has already swept through the system without anybody noticing, we probably don't have to shotgun our economy in the face......

[loveconstitution1789]

How else will Lefties get rid of Trump?

[loveconstitution1789]

Israeli doctor in Italy: We no longer help those over 60 Israeli medical doctor Gai Peleg told Israeli television that in northern Italy the orders are not to allow those over 60 access to respiratory machines.

Socialized medicine government death panels in action.

[John]

As much as I would like to blame that on socialized medicine, a private health system in that situation would be doing exactly the same thing. If you want to blame socialized medicine, blame it for having a lack of ventilators in the first place.

[Earth Skeptic]

No, no, no. True believers in state medicine (and state economies) have told me that they have the ability to predict the future, as well as allocate infinite resources. If they had been in charge there would be two ventilators in place now for every comrade.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Harsanyi talks about preparedness here.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/america-is-still-the-best-place-to-be-during-covid-19/

I want to marry that man.

[BigT]

We’re keeping you Canucks out. And not because of the implications of your last sentence.

[Mickey Rat]

There is little likelihood that any economic system can maintain the reserve medical infrastructure necessary to deal with a hundred year event as a matter of course. There is going to be triage of cases.

[JesseAz]

There are ways to mitigate risk through preparation. Our government has done good things and bad things. They've worked with hospitals to help shut down unnecessary or low risk surgeries in order to change surgery rooms into ICU rooms for example. Each surgery room has extra ventilators.

Oddly it just came out recently from Bloomberg News of all people that the reason we have a mask shortage is that the government never restocked the reserves after H1N1, so we are 65 million masks short in the standard reserve. So lack of planning there is actually a detriment.

[loveconstitution1789]

That is NOT how triage medicine works in the private market.

The most serious breathing cases get ventilators on a first come-first served basis. In actual free markets, those that can pay get ventilators first.

[Rufus The Monocled]

It's not socialized medicine the problem there though.

In Italy it's a mixed private-public system. The private side got overwhelmed and began sending patients to the public side with zero measures in place and the rest is history.

Had China been honest about it, the scenario would have been different. The Italian hospital system focuses on natural disasters; not pandemics.

They literally were caught off guard and reacted too late.

[Rufus The Monocled]

It gets better. If Salvini was in power, let's just say the optics would;d have been different. But since his government fell - but remains more popular than ever - it was taken over by basically the left-wing Conte. What does that clown do?

He signs a 'Belt and Road' economic deal with the country that sparked a pandemic and lied about it. The U.S., India and Japan are rightfully worried about this. Quite frankly, I am too.

What was he thinking doing this during a pandemic? Right. He's liberal. There you go.

The world needs to reassess its relationship with China after this settles. We should demand they account and then slowly ween ourselves off that tit.

Tired of their antics. It's predictable and boring. Like an episode of Bosom Buddies.

[loveconstitution1789]

Italian hospitals are horrible.

While in the US military in Italy, we were told to always go to a military facility for medical treatment before going to an Italian hospital. Italian hospitals were a very last resort.

Italians are getting the medical system they get from Socialism.

[John]

Horrible socialized medicine that makes the UK NHS look like American level care combined with an older population that still smokes and a culture where people obsessively touch each other and socialize is a recipe for disaster in a flu pandemic that attacks the lungs.

[loveconstitution1789]

Definitely. Italians kiss each other when greeting.

They will have to stack the bodies 10 deep before this is done.

[Rufus The Monocled]

You make being civil sound like it's a bad thing John. Lol.

What do you guys think of this healthcare ranking that has France and Italy ranked #1 and #2?

My friend is a doctor who thinks the French are quacks. Land of Pasteur!

[Rufus The Monocled]

Oops. Link:

https://worldpopulationreview.com/countries/best-healthcare-in-the-world/

[loveconstitution1789]

HAHA. France #1. Thanks for sharing that.

These biased surveys are so laughable.

[loveconstitution1789]

You should automatically lose points if citizens of your country travel to the USA just for the technology, care, and expertise of American doctors. And the USA should get a bump.

Americans travel outside the USA for medical stuff because it can be cheaper. Cheaper does not equal better.

[loveconstitution1789]

Harvey Weinstein Tests Positive For Coronavirus In NY State Prison; Convicted Producer In Isolation

His business acumen is contagious!

[Rufus The Monocled]

That's too good for him.

Merkel got it too. Oh the irony there. Couldn't have happened to a nicer idiot.

[Don't look at me!]

Too bad it wasn’t AIDS.

[loveconstitution1789]

He is in prison for violent rape. Dude is going to get "stabbed" one way or another or check out because of natural causes.

[Fats of Fury]

Weinstein was casting for a prison production of "Prisoners of Love".

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

Dr. Fauci says he "ca't jump in front of" the Liar--In-Chief to prevent him from more lies in news conferences.

But I can't jump in front of the microphone and push him down. OK, he said it. Let's try and get it corrected for the next time.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03/i-m-going-keep-pushing-anthony-fauci-tries-make-white-house-listen-facts-pandemic

As the lies pile up Fauci is dropped from Sunday's TrumpVirus update.

[Sevo]

Natch, as a lying fucking lefty ignoramus, you left out the bottom line:
“He goes his own way. He has his own style,” Fauci, the longtime director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, said in the telephone interview with the magazine on Sunday. “But on substantive issues, he does listen to what I say.”
Besides which, Fauci is an advisor; he works for the POTUS.
If you'd ever held a job in you pathetic existence, you'd know telling your boss to shut up is a good way to find your way to the exit.
You.
Are.
A.
Liar.
Always and everywhere.
Fuck off and die.

[JesseAz]

You never linked to your proof that Trump called the Virus a Hoax. Why'd you leave that thread?

[Fist of Etiquette]

In Germany...the government is banning meetings of two or more people.

As long as it doesn't drop below one.

[Fats of Fury]

Ah! Just like the old days.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Japan PM Abe says Tokyo Olympics cannot be held under current circumstances

Tokyo saved by pandemic from economic ruin.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Is now a terrible time to buy a home?

Not if it has a moat.

[Earth Skeptic]

And plenty of toilet paper.

[lap83]

my home came with an excess of fluffy grandma curtains, I would've been set.

[loveconstitution1789]

How do they keep grandmas up there day and night?

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Yes, but did the carpet match the curtains?

[Chipper Morning Wood]

TIL Leo likes silver carpets.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

I prefer linoleum floors, if'n you know what I mean.

[lap83]

how about asbestos tile?

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Me so thelioma

[Fist of Etiquette]

Delivery of many non-essential items on Amazon are being delayed a month.

Things are looking good for that case of Lifesavers I ordered.

[Don't look at me!]

If it wasn’t essential, why was it ordered?

[Rich]

Lesson learned: Always include essential oils in the order.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Riffing like a boss today, I see.

[Rich]

I'm trying. Very trying.

[Fist of Etiquette]

At Rikers prison, 21 inmates, 12 employees, and five health workers have tested positive for COVID-19.

Might as well stop testing. They all have it.

[loveconstitution1789]

Nobody did it though. Their lawyers fucked them.

[Ken Shultz]

President Trump continues to resist calls by Governor Cuomo and others to nationalize industry in the fight against the coronavirus.

"WASHINGTON—President Trump continued to resist calls to use a federal wartime law to mandate the production of additional medical supplies because he said he is concerned about nationalizing American businesses, as governors and health officials face shortages of masks, ventilators and other crucial equipment.

“We’re a country not based on nationalizing our business,” Mr. Trump said at a press briefing on Sunday. “The concept of nationalizing our businesses is not a good concept.”

He said sufficient numbers of companies were volunteering to manufacture masks and other protective gear, so invoking the Defense Production Act wasn’t yet necessary"

https://www.wsj.com/articles/trump-shuns-use-of-law-allowing-control-over-manufacturers-11584927164?

I shudder to think what would be happening right now if Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden were in the White House.

[Earth Skeptic]

Hearings to let business leaders argue why they should not be nationalized? (And that would be optimistic.)

[Nardz]

He directly rejected nationalizing businesses, but "orange man bad"

[Commenter_XY]

I know....fucking amazing, right? POTUS Trump literally speaks for 5 minutes on why not nationalizing is the better course of action, with detailed examples...and we hear nothing of that.

[R Mac]

I hear once he declares martial law, he might decide he likes it so much, he’ll keep it in place for evah! From this very article!

[Rufus The Monocled]

Just when I was beginning to like Cuomo.

Jesus, wtf?

Don't they see if you nationalize the cure becomes immediately worse than the disease.

Not for this. I hope Trump resists.

[JesseAz]

Watch out Ken, you're about to get called a Trump Bootlicker for posting that quote. Eric and Sarcasmic will be here shortly.

[Ken Shultz]

I'm not especially susceptible to that since I'm honestly critical of President Trump when he's wrong.

He was wrong about the trade war with China, and he's wrong in trying to cut off immigration.

In spite of those things, he's also been the most libertarian capitalist president we've had since World War II, and going back before that for some time, too.

Anybody that wants to call me a bootlicker for saying that needs to come to terms with my criticism of his trade polices and
his goals on immigration.

P.S. His actual strategy of seeking safe third country agreements with other countries is actually both constitutional and libertarian as well as more effective than a wall.

[JesseAz]

We can agree to disagree on China. He wasn't wrong, and not even Adam Smith would say he was. They were retaliatory tariffs, not permanent or just market advantageous. They were done due to bad acting from a foreign partner. This is not anti-libertarian to respond to bad market actors. That is a belief of idealistic Libertarians only, but doesn't work in reality.

Immigration is a different story, but the idealists again ignore actual negative externalities from immigration.

[Ken Shultz]

I hope the larger point isn't getting lost that the best way to counter people's criticism of you as a fan boy, bootlicker, etc. is to have legitimate criticisms of the person in question.

Remember that time Gillespie asked Rachel Maddow to name something she disagreed with Barack Obama on, and she couldn't think of anything?

I'm like that with Jesus. Everybody else, including me, has flaws, and everybody who can't think of anything bad to say about somebody has a credibility problem when they're talking about that person. Hell, even Joe Gibbs has flaws. I can't think of any, but he must have one somewhere. And the fact that I can't think of anything bad to say about Joe Gibbs means I've got a credibility problem when it comes to him.

Christopher Hitchens and George Orwell were enthusiastic socialists with a hell of lot of credibility, Hitchens for being willing to excoriate Bill Clinton when he deserved it and Orwell for being willing to excoriate Stalin and his communist apologists.

You should have heard Goldwater go after the religious right. One of the reasons Reagan had so much credibility when he went after Air Traffic Controllers, other unions like the Teamsters, and the Democrats who supported them was because he was an ex-Democrat union leader himself, who had cut his chops talking to unionized workers for GE and had the tentative support of pro-trade, anti-communist union bosses like the head of the AFL-CIO, George Meany.

Want to destroy the charge of being a bootlicker for Trump? Find something you don't like about President Trump and be honest about it. Telling people you support him in spite of his flaws, while being honest about his flaws, is about as credible as your argument can get in the face of accusations of being a bootlicker.

[Nardz]

"Christopher Hitchens and George Orwell were enthusiastic socialists with a hell of lot of credibility,"

And that's totes succeeded in stopping socialism

[Commenter_XY]

Ken....we'll have to agree to disagree on the tariff thing. You keep making an economic argument (incorrectly), when tariffs are a foreign policy tool.

I never would attach the bootlicker description to you. Your posts are excellent, and reasoned. Even when I do not agree entirely.

[Ron]

and what good would it be to nationalize certain industries. they can't suddenly transform equipment to make what is needed and by the time they did the other existing industries would have caught up with demand. Besides they have to wait for the parts form China anyway.

[Ken Shultz]

I saw a story on the news about a microbrewery that transformed itself beer making process into making hand sanitizer for first responders with their down time--because they have more capacity than the amount of microbrew they can sell, and the process and equipment necessary to make alcohol based hand sanitizer is already fairly identical to that required to make alcoholic beer.

The companies that are best suited to transitioning to making these high demand products are already making the transition.

I wonder, how many of the companies that could be temporarily transitioning to making these high demand products aren't doing so because they're under order to close by governors like Newsom and Cuomo? Is there anything more bullshit that Cuomo shutting businesses down for being non-essential, out of one side of his mouth, and then calling on Trump to nationalize these companies' assets, out of the other side of his mouth, to force them to make something they aren't making now?

Make up your mind, Cuomo. Do you want these companies operating or don't you?

[Fats of Fury]

He should nationalize Planned Parenthood to manufacture masks and conscript their employees. They should be given a strict quota and beaten severely when they miss their target.

[Fist of Etiquette]

3D-printed masks might not work...

Finally we can outlaw 3D printers.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Someone post a picture of her, assuming 3D printed bikinis didn't work. You know, for research purposes.

[Rich]

In Germany ... the government is banning meetings of two or more people.

BZZZT!!

FTFA: German authorities have issued a ban on more than two people meeting.

[loveconstitution1789]

Tylenol, soup and the internet can treat most symptoms of COVID-19 (whether you have it or not)

[lap83]

too much acetaminophen can make it worse, unfortunately

[loveconstitution1789]

Where did you go, Joe? Biden is largely absent as Trump tries navigating America through the coronavirus crisis

Joe Biden keeps forgetting.

[Rich]

We don’t know the scope of the pandemic or the depths of the economic fallout. Yet, one troubling reality is starting to take shape: Joe Biden is handing the general election to Donald Trump.

Hey! At least *Biden* is practicing social distancing!

[Don't look at me!]

Joe Biden is handing the general election to Donald Trump.
They happened long ago.

[JesseAz]

He came out of hiding today to try and cure Covid by forgiving all student debt.

[John]

http://issuesinsights.com/2020/03/23/is-the-media-ignoring-good-news-on-coronavirus/

The total deaths in the US yesterday rose from 41 to 117. Total deaths is really about the only reliable number there is. The increase in confirmed cases is just a result of better testing. There is no way to know how many people actually have this virus at any given time and thus impossible to tell with certainty what its actual mortality rate is. That said, the evidence increasingly shows that the Wuhan virus is likely has a mortality rate closer to 1% than the 4% claimed by the WHO.

Right now there are 35,079 confirmed cases and 438 deaths. That is a very low mortality rate but it takes a couple of weeks to die from it. So the death total is a lagging indicator. The 438 deaths means that there were likely between 43,000 and 175,000 cases of this stuff in the US two weeks ago, assuming it takes two weeks to die if you are and it has between a 1% and 4% mortality rate. With that many cases, it most certainly was spreading close to exponentially two weeks ago. So, the deaths should start going up big time this week. How much will tell a lot about how deadly this flu actually is. I do not think there is any reasonable way to argue that the number of people infected with this stuff didn't rise significantly between March 8 and March 15th. And the people who caught it that week should be showing up dead this week if they are going to die.

[loveconstitution1789]

The number of infected cases in the USA goes up by about 6,000 per day because Americans are being tested at some number above that (10,000/ day?).

It pisses me off that the numbers of negative tests are not published. That would start to show a clearer picture of infection spread. Clearly infection is not 100% of America since people are testing negative but maybe infection is 75%+, so avoiding each other is retarded. At that kind of infection rate, almost every Americans will be infected sooner or later.

[John]

The number of confirmed cases is meaningless.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

The total number of tests given in the US is easily found online.

[loveconstitution1789]

Then link it dipshit.

I said that I could not find it.

[JesseAz]

They published the negative tests yesterday.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/a-quarter-million-people-have-now-been-tested-for-coronavirus-in-the-us

[loveconstitution1789]

Thanks JesseAz.

Pence said during Sunday's White House briefing that so far, 254,000 U.S. citizens have been tested for the coronavirus at public health labs and given their results, with about 30,000 testing positive.

[mamabug]

They've been publishing them for Washington state all along. We went up from 93% negative last week to 94% this week.

[ElvisIsReal]

Do those tests just determine if you have it right now, or can the check to see if you've EVER had it?

[loveconstitution1789]

This is also an important number.

[AJH]

All the current tests, as far as I can tell, look for coronavirus RNA so they can only determine if you have the virus now. Tests that look for antibodies are under development, but not currently available.

[JesseAz]

A quarter of a million tests have now been administered and only just over 10% are coming back as positive results. These tests are mostly from people exhibiting symptoms. That is a very low positive sample rate, so the disease is not spreading as fast as people have hyped it up to be. I expect this number to go down if they start testing asymptomatic people and reach closer tot he 4% test rate of SK. SK also has a CFR of under 1%. The death rate isn't a worry, and the infection rate isn't a worry.

[Commenter_XY]

John...I think the part you're not talking about is the hospitalization rate for those afflicted with the Wuhan coronavirus, who then go on to recover. It is much higher than we would expect. And it is not just the elderly. An alarming percentage of hospitalizations involve those 18-59.

[Gray_Jay]

Are the hospitalization criteria identical there vs the US?

[Commenter_XY]

Nope...which is why we need a solid US data set.

[Gray_Jay]

I mean, I read the blurb about France hospitalizing lots of young people too. But I don't know what criteria they were using to justify it. Were they 'really sick', or was a hospital just the best place, in the minds of French health authorities, to sequester known sufferers of the bug?

Let's hope we get that better data.

[Commenter_XY]

Gray_Jay....Now you see just one reason why I argue that the 15-day temporary and time-bound restrictions are a reasonable trade-off in the absence of data. Our data set is coming on line now, and I think we'll see movement very shortly.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

The data already show corvid is 25 times more deadly than swine flu, on the ONLY relevant data ... day by day for each, starting with each's first death.

After 16 days (last Thursday) corvid had 75 deaths, swine flu had THREE

COVID-19 DEATH RATE 25X WORSE THAN SWINE FLU

Graphic comparison graphs at the source,

[loveconstitution1789]

As crowds gather despite coronavirus rules, some parks, trails and beach parking lots are closed

Yeah, this is the last week of most Americans doing some form of pseudo isolation. Next week, Americans will try to go back to their normal routines.

[John]

Where I am all of the college kids came home and have nothing to do. It is house party central for them. They are kids. If this had happened when I was in college, I would have been doing the same thing. There is no way to stop that.

[Rich]

Oh, that's a paddlin'!

[JesseAz]

Since february, we've had 3k more Flu deaths as compared to just under 500 Covid deaths. People are going to stop listening sooner than later.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

More bad economic news.

Charles Koch current net worth: $46.8 billion

Open. The. Borders. NOW!!!!!

#HowLongMustCharlesKochSuffer?

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

#DotardRecession2020

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

#KrugmanWasRight

[Sevo]

turd fucking liar always.

[JesseAz]

I can't tell if you think Trump actually caused this virus or not. That is the only implication from your hashtag.

[Sarah Palin's Buttplug]

Fauci on more Trump lies about how his travel ban:

Q: What about the travel restrictions? President Trump keeps saying that the travel ban for China, which began 2 February, had a big impact [on slowing the spread of the virus to the United States] and that he wishes China would have told us three to four months earlier and that they were “very secretive.” [China did not immediately reveal the discovery of a new coronavirus in late December, but by 10 January, Chinese researchers made the sequence of the virus public.] It just doesn't comport with facts.

A: I know, but what do you want me to do? I mean, seriously Jon, let’s get real, what do you want me to do?

TRUMP DON"T LIKE SCIENCE!

Fox News and Fat Rush (Praise Be Unto Him) Limbaugh keep repeating Trump's lies to their dumbass audiences.

[Don't look at me!]

You seem to be listening.

[Mother's lament]

Probably not.
Buttplug gets his talking points in a morning email from the office.

[JesseAz]

It's nice of you to push the Chinese propaganda lies. The WHO was still claiming there was no human to human transmission of the virus, based on China's talking points, until mid february.

Here is a detailed listing of all the WHO tweets covering the news (Breitbart was the only one I could find with a comprehensive list).

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/03/22/who-covers-for-china-amid-virus-outbreak-not-contagious-among-humans/

You can see the WHO was pushing this as a non issue. Yet Trump issued the travel bans in January.

So literally everything you've said is a lie.

[Earth Skeptic]

So in Germany, vendors are using creative marketing to sell toilet paper. How long before creative entrepreneurs in NYC sell single sheets on the street (loosies?), and then how long before one of them gets strangled?

[Ska]

At least we've learned how to market price gouging to progressives.

[loveconstitution1789]

Hulk Hogan, Cox Radio Reach Settlement Over Sex Tape Lawsuit

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

"National shelter in place"... you mean martial law?

[John]

Yeah. Number one, the feds don't have the authority to do that. Number two, they don't have the ability. Even if they mobilized the entire National Guard on Title 10 status, the military is nowhere close to being large enough to occupy the entire country.

So, that leaves it to the states. And even the states cannot enforce these sorts of orders to any significant degree. Moreover, even if they could it would be insane. Shelter in place is for when the chemical plant blows up and everyone needs to stay indoors for a day or two until the stuff released disperses. You can't have people shelter in place for weeks or months. The entire society would collapse.

[Rich]

"BWAHAHAHAHAAA!!"

[Longtobefree]

Not to mention it is illegal to use the US Military for law enforcement.
(except by republican presidents in Little Rock)

[loveconstitution1789]

+1000

Not a peep from unreason about the hypocrisy in their article about border security using military and military being used for COVID19.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Yep. Posse Comitatus.

[lap83]

And even the states cannot enforce these sorts of orders to any significant degree.

hence, Cuomo's comment that just comes across as ineffective whining
"It's insensitive, it's arrogant, it's self-destructive, it's disrespectful to other people and it has to stop….This is not a joke, and I am not kidding."

"I'm not KIDDING, YOU GUYS!!! HMMPH" *insert petulant foot stomping*

[R Mac]

One more time and he’s gonna just turn the car right around!

[Commenter_XY]

John...try coming to the People's Republic of NJ = So, that leaves it to the states. And even the states cannot enforce these sorts of orders to any significant degree. Moreover, even if they could it would be insane.

It is becoming a real mess here. Stay safe, stay healthy.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

ANOTHER HYSTERICAL RETARD .. DOESN'T KNOW WHAT MARTIAL LAW IS!
It's when the military replaces civilian law.

[Ken Shultz]

I wish Democrat opposition to the "Coronavirus Rescue Package" were about a principled opposition to wasteful spending, but their opposition has already killed much of the benefit to working Americans in favor of bailing our state governments and the unionized government employees who work for them.

President Trump initially wanted to eliminate payroll taxes through December of 2020, but was willing to settle for two rounds of $500 billion payments to working people. Most of those payments to working people in the private sector were eliminated in subsequent versions, which is awful for a number of reasons, among them that a lack of consumer discretionary spending is the reason the market is in free fall, and letting working people keep what they earn is the most direct and just solution imaginable.

The problem with that solution, from the progressive view, is that it does nothing to help state employees, who are likely to be laid off en masse by the lack of taxable activity over the coming weeks, and if there's anything Democrats oppose more than whatever SJW atrocity has been run up the flag pole this week, it's letting people keep the money they earn at the expense of making the government smaller.

The time to roll our hatred for the Democrats and their socialism up in a ball and direct it towards them and their awfulness is not after they've done the damage they can to our economy. The time to express your total contempt for Democrats and their socialism to your friends and family is right fucking now--before they use "stimulus" to shore up the size of the government at the expense of working people everywhere.

[loveconstitution1789]

Trump activates National Guard in California, New York and Washington state: ‘This is a war’

President Donald Trump on Sunday announced that he has activated the National Guard in California, New York and Washington state in order to combat the spread of the coronavirus. The administration emphasized that the deployment of guard members is not martial law.

The state governors will retain command of the National Guard, but the Federal Emergency Management Agency will cover all costs of the missions to respond to the virus outbreak.

[Don't look at me!]

They are going to shoot individual viruses?

[Longtobefree]

Bad news; US Military with guns is martial law, and (if it matters) illegal.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

Martial Law is the military replacing civilian law, Chicken Little

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Now THAT was a dumb decision. If these Dem governors want to impose military force on their citizens that badly, let them do it and take the heat.

[loveconstitution1789]

Well, technically those National Guard units were federalized so state Governors have ZERO authority over them now.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

MORE CRAZED BULLSHIT FROM THE SCREECHING PSYCHO, LC1789!.

Breitbart:

TRUMP ACTIVATES NATIONAL GUARD IN CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK AND WASHINGTON TO HELP ENFORCE STATE RESTRICTIONS … FEDERAL PAYS, GOVERNORS IN COMMAND

President Donald Trump announced at the White House on Sunday that he had activated the National Guard in California, New York, and Washington.

“I know that this is a challenging time for all Americans. We are enduring a great national trial,” Trump said. “We’re at war. In a true sense, we’re at war.”

It’s NOT a Democrat hoax?? NOW he tells us!

Trump said that he activated the National Guard under Title 32 status, allowing the guard to remain under the control of the governor, but is paid for by the federal government.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

lc1789 posts PROOF that HE is bat-shit crazy screaming MARTIAL LAW!
(doesn't know what martial law is!)

[loveconstitution1789]

Trump Says Coronavirus Cure Cannot ‘Be Worse Than the Problem Itself’

I might not agree with everything Trump is doing for the COVID19 hysteria but I am so glad Trump is President and not any other 2016 candidate, Republican or Democrat.

[loveconstitution1789]

“WE CANNOT LET THE CURE BE WORSE THAN THE PROBLEM ITSELF,” Mr. Trump tweeted in all capital letters shortly before midnight. “AT THE END OF THE 15 DAY PERIOD, WE WILL MAKE A DECISION AS TO WHICH WAY WE WANT TO GO!”

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Did Hihn take over the President's Twitter? That's a whole lot of caps.

Just wait until he starts retweeting himself. Then we'll know for sure.

[Don't look at me!]

Needs more bold text.

[Freddy the Jerk]

Needz moar sneers.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

NOW YOU'RE GLAD TRUMP HAS DECLARED MARTIAL LAW????
(Which you LIED about)

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

Trump has caved on the base of that tweet, no longer a NATIONAL re-opening.
It will be safest states only, per the deep data search under Dr. Fauci.
Others as the flatten their curve, then head it downwards

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

As if the attempted modern day lynching of Jussie Smollett wasn't enough, now Orange Hitler is responsible for even more violence against black bodies!

Health officials in Nigeria have issued a warning over the drug chloroquine. Three people in the country overdosed on the drug, they said, in the wake of President Trump's comments about using it to treat coronavirus.

#BlackLivesMatter

[Sevo]

"Chaos, inconsistency mark launch of drive-through testing"
[...]
"...More than a week after President Donald Trump promised that states and retail stores such as Walmart and CVS would open drive-thru test centers, few sites are up and running, and they're not yet open to the general public..."
https://www.texarkanagazette.com/news/national/story/2020/mar/23/chaos-inconsistency-mark-launch-drive-through-testing/821723/

A WEEK!!!
It's an AP feed, so the TDS was not long in coming.

[John]

What chaos and inconsistency is occurring? It sounds to me like we are not far from just about everyone being able to test themselves pretty much every day if they want. That would kill this thing off pretty quickly.

[Sevo]

It's AP; they found somebody who had to wait in line.

[John]

Someone had to wait in line and they gave priority to people who are in health care or live with someone who is more vulnerable. That is just pure chaos and inconsistency. Oh the humanity.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Headline: 'Why can't America be more like China? What we can learn from this forward thinking and benevolent country.'

[Nardz]

Boehm is working on it now

[Mother's lament]

Not if Suderman or Welch trip him in the rush.

[John]

Why doesn't America just weld everyone found to have this virus into their homes and leave them to die like the great benevolent China has?

[creech]

I hear bats taste delicious.

[Ken Hagler]

"In general, the more we trust local leaders to know what's best for their own communities, the less we risk massive civil liberties abuses and financial ruin."

Clearly not, as Brown notes herself earlier in her own article:

"A number of states have now enacted "shelter in place" or "stay at home" orders, including California, Delaware, Illinois, Louisiana, Ohio, Nevada, New Jersey, New York, and Pennsylvania."

[John]

I don't trust local leaders any more than I trust national ones. The only good thing that can be said for local leaders is the harm they caused is limited to a single locality whereas national leaders can harm the entire country.

[loveconstitution1789]

And states have less assets to cause harm. The federal government has magnitudes more ability to cause harm.

Georgia does not have enough cops/National Guard to enforce Martial Law.

Tens of thousands of federal troops enforcing Martial law in Georgia might be enough, if Georgians didn't start shooting and blowing shit up. Plus, it's one state and there are more states that would need tens of thousands of troops.

[Ken Shultz]

The people of Nevada certainly don't trust their local leaders, which is why they only allow their legislature to meet every other year--and even then, only for 120 days.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada_Legislature#Sessions_and_qualifications

It seems to me that state laws are easier to overturn. When the federal government does something, getting that ship turned around takes a lot more effort and a much longer time.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

“In general, the more we trust local leaders to know what’s best for their own communities, the less we risk massive civil liberties abuses and financial ruin.”

Clearly not, as Brown notes herself earlier in her own article:

YOU said local leaders are in charge!

[Ken Shultz]

Devs on Hulu is pretty awesome, although it suffers for trying to appeal to mainstream audiences in ways that Ex Machina didn't.

You know how Star Trek always has these pauses, where the action stops so that the actors can explain what they're doing and why to all the dumbfucks out there, who can't follow a simple plot?

Devs does that.

You probably can't get enough funding for an expensive production like that for a whole eight to ten episode season, with big action sequences and a cast like that, unless the studio knows you'll make the show palatable for people with IQs that are below average. I see those moments as like advertisements for the show.

Sometimes during one show, you'll see advertisements for another show. I don't knock a show for having advertising during it. Sometimes, during shows with subjects that are hard for some people to understand (like determinism vs. multiverse), the show runs advertising for its own show during the show by having the actors explain to all the people who don't get it what's happening and why.

If you can get past that, it's a great show.

Someday, maybe they'll release a director's cut of the show, and that'll be fucking awesome.

[Ska]

If you have a subscription to Hulu you don't get ads. At least I haven't seen any.

I like the ideas in the show a lot more than the show itself. A lot of the scenes and deliveries feel wooden. The appearances and focus on being diverse (the "good guys" being multiracial and androgynous as opposed to the stereotypical looking, conformist "bad guys") is slightly annoying but only a minor distraction.

I'm still watching it. There are cool ideas there and interesting thought experiments. I want to see where it goes.

[Nardz]

Wait - is hulu free?

[Ska]

There's a more expensive (like 10-15 a month) subscription that is ad free. I watch hulu a lot. It has a ton of shows and anime that I do like, and I'm ok with the extra eight bucks or whatever a month.

[MP]

It's sooo worth it going ad free. I pay for CBS ad free too.

[Ken Shultz]

It's good to have a choice!

[Ken Shultz]

I think you get the on demand stuff commercial free if you subscribe to Hulu + LIve TV, too, which is a great cable replacement for a lot of people.

I hate, hate, hate the way broadcasters rent seek and made cable companies pay to carry their broadcasts, and paying for broadcast television when I can get it for free with an antenna is absurd.

When they get their broadcast spectrum for free from the FCC, it is a condition of their license that they're only getting the spectrum for free because they broadcast their content for free. As taxpayers, we're effectively paying for that spectrum they're using by letting them use it exclusively for free, and they want to turn around and charge me to watch it over cable or through a service like Hulu?

No thanks.

I can use Sling and get all the live cable channels and just plug a TV antenna into my wireless network and use a separate app to stream that antenna signal to my TV through Roku or to a tablet, laptop, phone, or desktop PC . . .

Most of the profits of your local TV broadcaster are made by charging cable viewers and other services to distribute their content which is already available for free, and the only reason they're able to get away with it is because the federal government requires cable companies to carry local broadcasters. They can't say "no".

[Ken Shultz]

P.S. The reason Hulu, presumably, carries broadcaster is because Hulu is majority owned by Disney, which owns ABC. Hulu was also owned by other broadcasters--it was a partnership. I suspect this is why Hulu is the more broadcaster friendly of the streaming services.

It's also interesting that the free streaming services have mostly been bought by the big players now.

Fox bought Tubi.
Viacom bought Pluto.
Comcast bought Xumo just a few weeks ago.

There is still a lot of disruption in the market, but the empire is definitely striking back. AT&T/DirectTV are big losers. We should all be rooting for Locast.

[Ken Shultz]

If you only pay for $5.99 version, you still get ads.

I stream live TV through Sling so that I don't have to pay for broadcast TV--which I get through Locast or Tablo and an antenna.

The point was that I don't knock a good show for having advertisements in it no matter where I see it, and I see those asides where the characters are explaining themselves to people watching who wouldn't understand what was happening and why otherwise as being like advertisements for the show.

Back in the day, women used to come into the room while we were watching football and say things like, "Who's winning?", "What's the score?", "What down is it?", "How far do they have to go?", and it was really annoying because they didn't really seem to care about the answers to those questions anyway. Nowadays, they put the answers to those questions up on the screen digitally, so people have the answers to those questions--and no one needs to ask. It's sort of like advertising for the game.

Ultimately, this doesn't stop women from talking to us during football games. They just come in and say things that are unrelated to football anyway. I don't really care about whether their sister has cancer or we need to make plans about blah, blah, blah. Unless she's feeling frisky, the house is on fire, or the dog is having a medical emergency, I probably don't give a shit. Anyway, the point is that people who don't know or care about the game can see what's going on and get into it from that point on--if they want. And that's more or less what the show does when the characters explain what they're doing and why to us like we're in kindergarten.

If it were a commercial for tires or shaving cream, I wouldn't hold it against the show. That's what they have to do to get it on the air. And I see those interludes of obtuse dialogue as being like an advertisement in that way.

[JesseAz]

Hulu has 4 tiers: Streaming with Ads, Streaming Ad Free (double the price), and Streaming with Live Television (which has Ads), and Streaming with Live Television, no Ads, unlimited DVR (still has ads on live TV).

[Ken Shultz]

And the ads aren't bad on Streaming with Ads.

It's much shorter of a commercial break than you see on broadcast television. I know they can charge more for targeted ads via streaming than they can for the throw up against the wall broadcast adverting approach, and part of it is that you're subsidizing the network's costs through your $5.99 a month.

Meanwhile, they've got some of the best shows available anywhere.

[Dillinger]

>>I like the ideas in the show a lot more than the show itself.

99% of all shows.

[Ska]

Oh yeah: the Tiger King series on Netflix is amazing if you want to see a train wreck of a documentary that is real life being stranger than fiction. What a cast of characters. Every episode just gets crazier and crazier. It actually comes off even handed and shows that there are no good faith actors in it at all.

[Ken Shultz]

I've heard that's great. Definitely on my watchlist.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

A loss of smell or taste may be an early sign of COVID-19 infection.

*puts paisley shirt back in closet*

[Leo Kovalensky II]

I can't even smell the moth balls!

[Sevo]

Lift up its ass and sniff.

[John]

Since I am trapped in my house, I was able to watch the Midway Movie they made last year. It was pretty good. I would say it was a solid war movie, which is pretty rare these days. I think the one from the 70s with Hal Holbrooke and Charlton Heston is better but this one is still worth watching.

Also, if you ever want to understand how stupid and incompetent and nasty the military bureaucracy can be read the story of Joe Rochefort sometime. Rochefort was the Naval intelligence officer at Pearl Harbor who figured out that "AF" was the code for Midway and the target of the coming Japanese offensive. It was one of the biggest intelligence coups in the entire war and by extension US military history. Rochefort was a certified genius and the type of person who in a sane world would have ended up at or near the top of both the Navy and US intelligence in general in the post war period. Instead he retired as an O5 and saw the War Department veto Nimitz's request that he recieve a DSM for his service before the battle. Rochefort didn't even finish the war as an inteligence officer. He was removed from his post and given a bad fitness report after his intelligence allowed Nimitz to ambush the Japanese and turn the tide in the Pacific War at Midway.

Why? Because the people at Naval Intelligence in Washington didn't believe he was right about Midway being the target of the Japanese offensive. They were so angry when he turned out to be right, they ruined his career in revenge. What really chaffed them was that Rochefort was a former enlisted who went to OCS for his commission and didn't go to the Navel Academy. So, they destroyed his career and ensured one of the greatest minds in cryptoanalysis the country has ever produced never engaged in such activity again.

[Rufus The Monocled]

And there you laid out the reason why there are gaping problems in government. Jealousy and vengefulness is part of the human condition and to give it more power is to only exacerbate it.

[John]

And credentialism as well. The other thing is that the best people sometimes can be difficult. Rochefort didn't tolerate fools and made a lot of enemies among fools because of it. People are more often than not most threatened by competence.

[loveconstitution1789]

Don't forget John that the War Department was run by the US Army. The Chief of Staff to FDR was General George Marshall.

After World War II ended, the Congressional Joint Committee on the Investigation of the Pearl Harbor Attack received testimony on the intelligence failure. It amassed 25,000 pages of documents, 40 volumes, and included nine reports and investigations, eight of which had been previously completed. These reports included criticism of Marshall for delay in sending General Walter Short, the Army commander in Hawaii, important information obtained from intercepted Japanese diplomatic messages. The report also criticized Marshall's lack of knowledge of the readiness of the Hawaiian Command during November and December 1941. Ten days after the attack, Lt. General Short and Admiral Husband E. Kimmel, commander of the Navy at Pearl Harbor, were both relieved of their duties. The final report of the Joint Committee did not single out or fault Marshall. While the report was critical of the overall situation, the committee noted that subordinates had failed to pass on important information to their superiors, including Marshall.

A secret report into the Army's role, the Clausen Report was authorized by Secretary Stimson; it was critical of Short and also of Colonel Bratton who, he concluded, arrived later on Sunday morning than he initially claimed during testimony and invented a story about not being able to get in touch with Marshall which "nearly destroyed" Marshall.
-Wikipedia George Marshall

[John]

I am reading a really good book right now called "And I Was There". It is by an Admiral Edwin Layton who was Rochefort's boss at Pearl Harbor. He doesn't blame Marshall, he blames the Navy department and the rivalry between Naval Intelligence and Naval Signals Intelligence as well as the State Department for the lack of information given to Admiral Kimmel in the weeks leading up to the attack on Pearl Harbor.

I haven't finished it, but he also says there were a lot of rocks that the board of inquiry on Pearl Harbor never turned over because it would have embarrassed the Navy. Instead, they singled out Kimmell as the fall guy and moved on.

[loveconstitution1789]

Lest we forget that the State Department was filled with Socialist spies and sympathizers to keep the USA from fighting the Nazis and the Imperial Japanese. While many Americans were against the USA jumping into another World War, Americans had different reasons than the Commies working in our Government.

The default was always Democrats being racist that Japanese are not good enough to conquer the Pacific and any intel leaning toward immediate attack were ignored because it was politically impossible for FDR to start a new World War.

Luckily for FDR, the Japanese solved that problem for him politically. As in two more Presidential terms... solved.

[loveconstitution1789]

A Captain might go down with the ship and Kimmell was no different.

Hawaii was surprised and it was his fault, as far as Naval Commands go. It was also the US Army's fault since they controlled certain aspects of Hawaiian defense.

[Gray_Jay]

"...but he also says there were a lot of rocks that the board of inquiry on Pearl Harbor never turned over because it would have embarrassed the Navy. Instead, they singled out Kimmell as the fall guy and moved on."

+1 gay lovers quarrel and the Iowa explosion.

[loveconstitution1789]

The first investigation into the explosion, conducted by the U.S. Navy, concluded that one of the gun turret crew members, Clayton Hartwig, who died in the explosion, had deliberately caused it. During the investigation, numerous leaks to the media, later attributed to U.S. Navy officers and investigators, implied that Hartwig and another sailor, Kendall Truitt, had engaged in a romantic relationship and that Hartwig had caused the explosion after their relationship had soured. In its report, however, the U.S. Navy concluded that the evidence did not show that Hartwig was homosexual but that he was suicidal and had caused the explosion with either an electronic or chemical detonator.

The victims' families, the media (CBS's 60 Minutes), and members of Congress were sharply critical of the U.S. Navy's findings. The U.S. Senate and U.S. House Armed Services Committees both held hearings to inquire into the Navy's investigation and later released reports disputing the U.S. Navy's conclusions. The Senate committee asked the GAO to review the U.S. Navy's investigation. To assist the GAO, Sandia National Laboratories provided a team of scientists to review the Navy's technical investigation.

During its review, Sandia determined that a significant overram of the powder bags into the gun had occurred as it was being loaded and that the overram could have caused the explosion. A subsequent test by the Navy of the overram scenario confirmed that an overram could have caused an explosion in the gun breech. Sandia's technicians also found that the physical evidence did not support the U.S. Navy's theory that an electronic or chemical detonator had been used to initiate the explosion.

In response to the new findings, the U.S. Navy, with Sandia's assistance, reopened the investigation. In August 1991, Sandia and the GAO completed their reports, concluding that the explosion was likely caused by an accidental overram of powder bags into the breech of the 16-inch gun. The U.S. Navy, however, disagreed with Sandia's opinion and concluded that the cause of the explosion could not be determined. The U.S. Navy expressed regret (but did not offer an apology) to Hartwig's family and closed its investigation.

Something got rammed for sure! Dead sailors don't need reputations.

[Gray_Jay]

That, and the stupid shits left stored powder on a barge in the middle of the Potomac because of cutbacks, where the powder got way hotter than storage guidelines, altering and increasing the sensitivity of the powder. Plus, AIUI, the chief in charge of either gunnery, or that turret, liked doing 'experiments' with the guns.

In short there were a lot of institutional and leadership failures the Navy could have focused on, but that might make some Admirals and Undersecretaries look bad. Plus, the investigators, who IIRC were NCIS, carried themselves with their usual incompetence and lack of professionalism.

[loveconstitution1789]

To be fair, the US military leadership, including Admiral Nimitz, was scared to lose the US Navy's 6 carriers (Enterprise, Hornet, Yorktown, Saratoga, Wasp, and Ranger). Only the Enterprise and Hornet were readily available and the Yorktown was quickly repaired at Pearl and entered the fray.

USS Saratoga torpedoed in mission to reinforce Wake Island and was being repaired on West Coast.
USS Lexington sunk at Battle of Coral Sea.
USS Ranger and USS Wasp stationed with Atlantic Fleet.

Even with the intel about Midway, the ambush was a huge gamble. Remember that the waves of US torpedo bombers were wiped out by IJN carrier fighters and shipboard AA fire. The US dive bombers luckily finding the IJN carriers is the only reason that Midway turned out the way it did. That combined with Admiral Nagumo's mistakes based on IJN inflexibility of command and clear intel short comings.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

In mass combat like that, there are going to be events during the course of the battle that build on each other to influence the outcome. If commanders are relatively prepared, the best they can hope for is that these events work out more in their favor than against as the battle goes on, and trust their subordinates to carry out the tactical decisions needed to ensure victory.

[loveconstitution1789]

Oh definitely. The IJN bombers could have found all 3 American aircraft carriers and sunk them which would have been a huge setback for America.

[Gray_Jay]

That sounds like the US Navy to me. If you're on their shit list, nothing you do is good enough. Rochefort was a pretty weird dude, IIRC, which couldn't have helped in an organization as aristocratic and straitlaced as the upper echelons of the Navy could be.

Conversely, if you're of the right class, you can make colossal fuckups and get medals thrown at you. Admiral Ralph Christie and the magnetic detonator for the Mark 14 torpedo is one such case. John McCain nearly being a Communist ace is another. The whole Lone Survivor fuckup...it just goes on and on.

[loveconstitution1789]

We had a joke in the Navy about fuckups being promoted (needed more and more awards to get promoted in certain job specialties) to make them someone else's problem.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

On Monday morning, Rep. Ro Khanna (D–Calif.) started circulating a letter that calls for an immediate order instituting a national, two-week shelter-in-place.

His district is so important that he needs to control the entire country.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

He used his pen. Now to make a few phone calls...

[Longtobefree]

"places like restaurants, bars, nightclubs, hair salons and retail shops have generally been categorized as non-essential."

I suspect the employees consider their paycheck pretty damn essential.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

You can 3D print a bikini because your body conforms to the plastic

Especially if the body is also mostly plastic.

[John]

Or you could just use some material, scissors, thread, and a sowing machine. There is always that.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Wait, are we still talking about augmenting bodies?

[JesseAz]

Have you not seen Frankestein?

[Leo Kovalensky II]

It's Franken-STEEN

[Dillinger]

>>sowing machine

don't fear the reaper

[mad.casual]

A: You can 3D print a bikini because your body conforms to the plastic- which is flexible but not really soft.

Q: What you say when you *can* 3D print a bikini, but you shouldn't?

[Troglodyte Rex]

The Trump administration might just decide it likes this sort of power.

Any evidence of this Lizzy? No? Fuck off you fucking hack.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

He sure seems to like his #NationalSecurity tariff powers.

[John]

Yeah, he imposed them all of the time on every country in the world. Or maybe he did it one time in dealing with an avowed enemy of the US in one industry?

Jesus fucking Christ Leo, you are generally smarter than this. I don't understand how an otherwise smart person can say something as stupid as what you just did.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Do you deny that Trump seems to like those powers? He's invoked them numerous times.

[Sevo]

"Do you deny that Trump seems to like those powers?"

When did you stop beating your wife, Leo?

[Leo Kovalensky II]

I never started.

Now you answer my question.

[Sevo]

So you ask a stupid question and assume someone is obligated to oblige your idiocy?
Hint: No.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

At least you admit it wasn't a loaded question, as your response implies.

Your choice not to answer says a lot about your position.

[Fats of Fury]

So, you never started to stop beating your wife?

[loveconstitution1789]

Does Trump implement those powers because the media is out to crucify him for everything, so he feels he has to give the masses their opioids?

Trump doesn't have a Teflon coating like Bill Clinton and Barack had.

[Fats of Fury]

Monica had the Clinton coating. EEEEeeewwwwww!

[Leo Kovalensky II]

Does Trump implement those powers because the media is out to crucify him for everything, so he feels he has to give the masses their opioids?

If we're talking tariffs still, no. Trump uses his powers to invoke tariffs to unilaterally implement his nationalist agenda.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

How stupid are Troglodyte Rex, John and Sevo?
It's been over 24 hours since Trump used his power to
1) Activate the National Guard, to ENDORSE and SUPPORT the governors of CA, NY and WA.
2) Paid by federal, UNDER COMMAND OF THOSE GOVERNORS
3) To assist their efforts and restrictions

The Trump administration might just decide it likes this sort of power.

Any evidence of this Lizzy? No? Fuck off you fucking hack.

HEY DUMBFUCK, the proof was over 24 hours ago ... YOU"RE IGNORANT OF EVEN TOP NEWS STORIES.

From BREITBART, NOT MSNBC *smirk*
Trump has now endorsed even the most severe restrictions by state governors … again throwing the alt-right under a bus, as he struggles to restore his crippled legacy

TRUMP ACTIVATES NATIONAL GUARD IN CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK AND WASHINGTON TO HELP ENFORCE STATE RESTRICTIONS … FEDERAL PAYS, GOVERNORS IN COMMAND

President Donald Trump announced at the White House on Sunday that he had activated the National Guard in California, New York, and Washington.

“I know that this is a challenging time for all Americans. We are enduring a great national trial,” Trump said. “We’re at war. In a true sense, we’re at war.”

It’s NOT a Democrat hoax?? NOW he tells us!

Trump said that he activated the National Guard under Title 32 status, allowing the guard to remain under the control of the governor, but is paid for by the federal government.

Officials clarified that activating the National Guard would provide important resources to governors, but that it was playing an assistant role in the fight against the virus.

“I want you to understand, this is not martial law,” FEMA Administrator Peter Gaynor said.

(If martial law, the troops would be in charge.)

Trump deserves praise, for publicly reversing two months of delays, denials and blatant lies.
Now, his alt-right cult remains the only national threat greater than COVID-19. Even Fox News has thrown them under a bus!

****WHY IS THIS ROCKET SCIENCE TO YOU PEOPLE?
1) COVID-19 is 25 times more deadly than swine flu was, before vaccine.

2) COVID-19 is 5-10 times more deadly than seasonal flu, with a vaccine and 100 exposure

3) Nick (and others) would increase COVID-19 exposure from 5% to ???, with no vaccine and no cure.

4) The PURPOSE of preventive measures is to delay full COVID-19 exposure .... until a vaccine can be developed, which will take 12-18 months ... and there is now NO proven cure.
DUH

<blockquote<Vice President Pence, a former governor and the leader of the federal response to the coronavirus, urged Americans on Monday to respect state and local restrictions that are in many cases tougher than those imposed by the Trump administration.

"We made it clear to the governors that this president and this administration fully supports decisions that governors are making in communities and states that are particularly impacted by the spread of the coronavirus and we are grateful for their efforts," Pence saidLiving in a deep, dark cave can be hazardous to one's intelligence!

[R Mac]

Incoherent. Go ask the nurse for a prn and go to bed, Hihn.

[creech]

One of our local talk show hosts (a conservative) just predicted that suicides from this crisis will eventually outnumber deaths from the virus.

[Troglodyte Rex]

As long as Joy Behar is one of them.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Oof. That one.

[Mother's lament]

"California lawmakers call on the Food and Drug Administration to end the ban on gay and bisexual men donating blood"

Seems like some people don't get the new zeitgeist at all.

[loveconstitution1789]

Let's trade a cough due to cold pandemic with more innocent people getting homo diseases they pass back and forth.

Fun fact, many of the Boomers got Hep C from blood transfusions and medical practices. That and unprotected anonymous sex and sharing needles for drug use.

[Fats of Fury]

The dems are front and center on what's important in a pandemic. Abortions and Gay feefees.

[Dillinger]

In the same speech Clay Jenkins made last night while taking over Dallas County because two people died, he lamented how in the past two weeks child abuse has gone up while people and their kids have been more at home. Clay Jenkins wants children abused.

[Gray_Jay]

I'm sure domestic violence will only go down, once the stress of people losing their jobs from this quarantine percolate through the public.

[Dillinger]

and why the fuck is King Cuomo on national broadcasts with a NYC update every morning like NYC sets the trend?

[Leo Kovalensky II]

I mentioned in another thread, sort of tongue in cheek, that they are grooming Cuomo for the democrat nomination this year. While that's probably not true, I don't doubt for a minute that he's positioning himself for a run in 2024.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

That may very well be the case if Biden keels over from coronacoofs.

[Leo Kovalensky II]

The Bernie Bros heads would literally explode.

[Fats of Fury]

Possibly, Cuomo should start getting the hats out saying "America Was Never That Great to Begin With".

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

Trump gave Cuomo federal troops to assist his efforts, under Cuomo's command, paid by the feds.

Reported well over 24 hours ago

[Jerryskids]

Because all the TV networks broadcast from New York. It's not just that they're lazy and it's easier and cheaper to broadcast the local news as if were national news, it's that when everybody in the building works and lives in NY, they're all agreed that what happens in NY is more important than what happens in Kansas or Arizona. An apartment fire in the Bronx that injures 7 people is going to get more attention than an apartment fire in Peoria that kills 11 because they can rush a film crew to the Bronx and they can't to Peoria, plus they all know where the Bronx is and everybody they know knows as well, they have no idea where Peoria is and don't know anybody who does so who gives a shit about what happens in some backwater like Peoria when there's something happening in a place as important as the Bronx?

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

How CLUELESS can Dillinger be.
This is over 24 hours ago. Cannot even follow top news!!

From BREITBART, NOT MSNBC
Trump has now endorsed even the most severe restrictions by state governors … again throwing the alt-right under a bus, as he struggles to restore his crippled legacy

TRUMP ACTIVATES NATIONAL GUARD IN CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK AND WASHINGTON TO HELP ENFORCE STATE RESTRICTIONS … FEDERAL PAYS, GOVERNORS IN COMMAND

President Donald Trump announced at the White House on Sunday that he had activated the National Guard in California, New York, and Washington.

“I know that this is a challenging time for all Americans. We are enduring a great national trial,” Trump said. “We’re at war. In a true sense, we’re at war.”

It’s NOT a Democrat hoax?? NOW he tells us!

Trump said that he activated the National Guard under Title 32 status,
allowing the guard to remain under the control of the governor, but is paid for by the federal government.

Officials clarified that activating the National Guard would provide important resources to governors, but that it was playing an assistant role in the fight against the virus.

“I want you to understand, this is not martial law,” FEMA Administrator Peter Gaynor said.

(If martial law, the troops would be in charge.)

Trump deserves praise, for publicly reversing two months of delays, denials and blatant lies.
Now, his alt-right cult remains the only national threat greater than COVID-19. Een Fox News has thrown them under a bus!

****WHY IS THIS ROCKET SCIENCE?
1) COVID-19 is 25 times more deadly than swine flu was, before vaccine.

2) COVID-19 is 5-10 times more deadly than seasonal flu, with a vaccine and 100 exposure

3) Virus deniers would increase COVID-19 exposure from 5% to ???, as quickly as possible, with no vaccine and no cure.

4) The PURPOSE of preventive measures is to delay full COVID-19 exposure .... until a vaccine can be developed, which will take 12-18 months ... and there is now NO proven cure.

DUH

[R Mac]

Poor Hihn, he appears to have had a stroke.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

That was Breitbart, and known facts at the end.
(When they fail to rebut an argument, authoritarians get snarky.)

Again, why is this rocket science???
Every "known fact" I stated is documented on this page, linked to a source, multiple times for each. Apparently facts you are unaware of, so your ignorance becomes my stroke.

[loki]

So how much is she selling used 3d printed bikini bottoms, err, face masks for?

[Star1988]

Check out this case study:
https://www.sciencealert.com/researchers-confirmed-patients-can-transmit-the-coronavirus-without-showing-symptoms

Patient 1, the vector of this outbreak, first tested positive 18 days after arriving from Wuhan.

She had a high viral load, and was passing it around at least 21 days after picking it up.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

And that's the thing--this has probably been going on longer than that because of Chinese tourism. December 8th was just the first reported case.

China goes through a couple of months of dealing with this, starts an international panic at the end of February and then merrily goes back to acting as if nothing happened. If they didn't plan this shit, then they're incredibly fucking careless; either way, why should the world go on treating them like good-faith actors?

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

BILL GATES PREDICTED A VIRUS CATASTROPHE …. IN 2015

"We are not ready for the next epidemic," said Gates in 2015. (He) mentioned the details about Ebola and stated that "the problem was not that system did not work well enough but the problem was we did not have any system at all."

In the Ted Talk titled 'The next outbreak? We're not ready', Bill Gates predicted that the next outbreak would be more devastating than Ebola.

"The failure to prepare could allow the next epidemic to be dramatically more devastating than Ebola."

Gates cited the fact that Ebola did not reach many urban cities or else the results would have been greater. "Next time we might not be so lucky," His words have somehow predicted the Coronavirus epidemic's dangers.

COVID-19 has barely begun … and has ALREADY hit major urban centers, worldwide.

President Trump deserves praise for reversing two months of delays and denials ,… “It’s a Democrat hoax” … “It will magically disappear.”

The President now endorses and supports the severe restrictions by governors in CA, NY and WA … He has activated the National Guard in those states … paid by federal .. but under command of the governors. And he’s shut down his new critics, saying he will watch results for 15 days, before any further decisions.

He’s even considering a special enrollment period for Obamacare, to help uninsured Americans cope with this crisis.

Vice President Pence, a former governor and the leader of the federal response to the coronavirus, urged Americans on Monday to respect state and local restrictions that are in many cases tougher than those imposed by the Trump administration.

"We made it clear to the governors that this president and this administration fully supports decisions that governors are making in communities and states that are particularly impacted by the spread of the coronavirus and we are grateful for their efforts," Pence said

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

From BREITBART, NOT MSNBC *smirk*
Trump has now endorsed even the most severe restrictions by state governors … again throwing the alt-right under a bus, as he struggles to restore his crippled legacy

TRUMP ACTIVATES NATIONAL GUARD IN CALIFORNIA, NEW YORK AND WASHINGTON TO HELP ENFORCE STATE RESTRICTIONS … FEDERAL PAYS, GOVERNORS IN COMMAND

President Donald Trump announced at the White House on Sunday that he had activated the National Guard in California, New York, and Washington.

“I know that this is a challenging time for all Americans. We are enduring a great national trial,” Trump said. “We’re at war. In a true sense, we’re at war.”

It’s NOT a Democrat hoax?? NOW he tells us!

Trump said that he activated the National Guard under Title 32 status, allowing the guard to remain under the control of the governor, but is paid for by the federal government.

Officials clarified that activating the National Guard would provide important resources to governors, but that it was playing an assistant role in the fight against the virus.

“I want you to understand, this is not martial law,” FEMA Administrator Peter Gaynor said.

(If martial law, the troops would be in charge.)

Trump deserves praise, for publicly reversing two months of delays, denials and blatant lies. He has ENDORSED AND SUPPORTED the most stringent restrictions, by activating the National Guard in CA, NY and WA ... under command of their governors.

Now, his alt-right cult remains the only national threat greater than COVID-19. They're all alone.

****WHY IS THIS ROCKET SCIENCE
1) COVID-19 is 25 times more deadly than swine flu was, before vaccine.

2) COVID-19 is 5-10 times more deadly than seasonal flu, with a vaccine and 100 exposure

3) Virus deniers would increase COVID-19 exposure from 3% to ???, as quickly as possible, with no vaccine and no cure.

4) The PURPOSE of preventive measures is to delay full COVID-19 exposure .... until a vaccine can be developed, which will take 12-18 months ... and there is now NO proven cure.

DUH

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

DON LEMON SAYS TRUMP IS GASLIGHTING YOU ... AND ROLLS THE TAPE.

Lemon is usually too snarky for me, but this is DEVASTATING … MANY video clips ... crushing Trump's lies with Trump's own words..

**Trump NOW says he always knew it was a pandemic.
Did YOU get suckered?

***In February Trump said it's a Democrat hoax … AND a pandemic??! (smirk)
Did YOU swallow that psycho lie?

Trumpsters SCREAM in rage, “FAKE NEWS. HE NEVER SAID THAT”. See THAT fuckup of Trump's at 2:23 in the video. (roflmao)
Plus over a dozen clips of him saying the virus no problem ... AT THE SAME TIME HE KNEW IT WAS A PANDEMIC??
Did YOU get suckered AGAIN?.

The damage from Trump's delay, if you haven’t seen it explained:
On average, each infected person infects two more. So the longer we don’t avoid crowds, stores, workplaces, the more the virus expands exponentially, where each one infection becomes 3 … each 3 becomes 9 … each 9 becomes 27, etc. And one can be a carrier, UNKNOWN (no symptoms) for up to 14 days.
Sorry, Trumptards, but younger people are as dangerous a carrier as the older folks. As likely to infect … and kill … others.

Dr. Sonjay Gupta says we’re escalating at the same rate as Italy, but 10 days behind.

***Thursday, Italy had 793 deaths, in a country 1/5 our population. And we've been on the same curve. DO THE MATH. ... i> If we continue at our current pace, we’ll have 4,000 deaths in a single day, by month-end
Umm, 793 x 5 = 3,965.

Italy is way ahead of China on total deaths ... caused by delays and indecision (a lot fewer than Trump’s foul ups)

Per the Deep State and Vast Media Conspiracy, of course. 🙂

[R Mac]

You already posted this drivel several times in this thread.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

BECAUSE you assholes call it drivel! (lol)

[Larvell Blanks]

“The federal government gives states broad authority ...”

I feel that this misses the entire structure of the Constitution.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

Read it again.

[Larvell Blanks]

OK, done. I missed the part where it is the federal government that gives the states the authority to determine what businesses are essential when imposing restrictions under the police power. The police power does no derive from a grant by the federal government, but is a power that the states hold independently. The federal government, by contrast, has limited powers conferred on it by the Constitution, and the police power is not among them.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

Thanks for correcting!

States have limited powers, too. By the ninth amendment.

[Larvell Blanks]

It's not a correction. And no one has ever said that the states have unlimited powers - indeed, the Constitution itself places some limits on what states can do. But not in the Ninth Amendment, which neither grants nor limits state powers, but simply says that "[t]he enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people."

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

The ninth amendment restricts the 10th. State powers do not include powers that violate fundamental rights.. See the history of states rights, most famously, perhaps, Central High School, Little Rock, Arkansas, 1957. Gov Faubus activated his state militia -- armed force to stop 9 black kids from registering. Eisenhower sent federal troops, authorized to use force if necessary, Faubus caved, a major landmark in civil rights, later justified his actions as defending Arkansas from an overreaching Supreme Court. Same as Ron Paul does now.

And no one has ever said that the states have unlimited powers

Ron Paul is the worst, claim states have powers never delegated, can do virtually whatever they want. Calls that federalism, but it's actual the States Rights of the KKK and southern racists. Jim Crow. Said that "rogue judges" overturned DOMA, when they were defending equal and unalienable rights. Same with the more commonly used, "un-elected judges inventing rights" -- which is not what they do, and is most often linked to the Jim Crow mentality of states rights.

It’s not a correction

Sorry, I read it wrong. Still disagree.

[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

BORIS JOHNSON HAS ORDERED A FULL CORONAVIRUS LOCKDOWN ACROSS THE UK

[StanleyRHolley]

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[TheLibertyTruthTeller]

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