CPAC Attendees Mocked Coronavirus Fears. Now Some Are Self-Quarantining.

Plus: Kamala Harris endorses Joe Biden, when a pandemic hits the prisons, and more...

Coronavirus comes to CPAC. At the Conservative Political Action Conference (CPAC)—held just outside Washington, D.C., two weekends ago—attendees mocked media and Democrats for their reaction to the COVID-19 outbreak. Conferencegoers told a Hannity correspondent that Democrats were deliberately freaking out over nothing in order "to make the economy tank" and to make President Donald Trump look bad. Acting White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney said the disease's dangers were being overhyped because "they think this will bring down the president." And the president himself said onstage that the notion they weren't well prepared for a pandemic was a "hoax" being perpetuated by the Democrats.

CPAC attendees had better hope that Trump was right.

On Saturday, conference organizers announced that at least one attendee had been tested positive for the disease. The organization didn't say much more than that, assuring attendees that the infected person hadn't been in the main part of the event.

But as more information comes out, it seems the infected attendee was still in contact with quite a lot of people, spending time in the CPAC "green room" (where speakers and panelists hang out before taking the stage) and possibly attending a CPAC dinner. The many people passing in and out of the green room included White House officials, members of Congress, political organizers, and TV pundits.

Vice President Mike Pence and four other members of the president's coronavirus task force all gave addresses at CPAC.

Some at CPAC know that they had contact directly with the infected person (whose identity is not being revealed). This includes CPAC Chair Matt Schlapp (who would have been in contact with people all over the event), Rep. Paul Gosar (R–Ariz.), and Sen. Ted Cruz (R–Texas).

Gosar and Cruz have announced that they're self-quaranting themselves.

1. I am announcing that I, along with 3 of my senior staff, are officially under self-quarantine after sustained contact at CPAC with a person who has since been hospitalized with the Wuhan Virus. My office will be closed for the week.

— Paul Gosar (@DrPaulGosar) March 9, 2020

Today I released the following statement: pic.twitter.com/XGXEa4ozcg

— Senator Ted Cruz (@SenTedCruz) March 8, 2020

Some CPAC attendees are angry about what they see as too little information, too late, from CPAC organizers.

https://twitter.com/RaheemKassam/status/1236838980857053184

Meanwhile, Trump is still insisting there's nothing to see here:

The Fake News Media and their partner, the Democrat Party, is doing everything within its semi-considerable power (it used to be greater!) to inflame the CoronaVirus situation, far beyond what the facts would warrant. Surgeon General, "The risk is low to the average American."

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) March 9, 2020

On Friday, he asked "Does anybody die from the flu? I didn't know people died from the flu." (Trump's grandfather died of the flu.)

As for how his administration has been handling the outbreak, the evidence isn't reassuring. For instance, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention totally botched its first round of coronavirus tests. Yet no one else could even attempt their own tests, thanks to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

"FDA rules initially prevented state and commercial labs from developing their own coronavirus diagnostic tests," notes the MIT Technology Review:

The CDC and FDA reversed course and lifted this rule on February 29, and commercial and academic labs are now allowed to participate….This week, state and commercial labs began testing on their own. We're already seeing major steps forward; the University of Washington, for instance, has a new diagnostic that will allow it to test 1,500 samples a day. A group in Japan claims to have a test that can detect the virus in just 10 to 30 minutes.

"The great strength the US has always had, not just in virology, is that we've always had a wide variety of people and groups working on any given problem," says Jerome. "When we decided all coronavirus testing had to be done by a single entity, even one as outstanding as CDC, we basically gave away our greatest strength."

Thankfully, private institutions are stepping up to fill the gaps left by government testing schemes:

Bill Gates Foundation will begin offering home-testing coronavirus testing kits in Seattle area that will allow people to send nose-swab samples back for analysis

Results w/in 1-2 days will be shared w/local health officials who notify those test positive https://t.co/vD025EMRIV

— Kimmel to trump: Isn't it past your jail time (@MaggieJordanACN) March 8, 2020

---

QUICK HITS

• Kamala Harris endorses Joe Biden:

.@JoeBiden has served our country with dignity and we need him now more than ever. I will do everything in my power to help elect him the next President of the United States. pic.twitter.com/DbB2fGWpaa

— Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) March 8, 2020

• It's still illegal to curse in Arlington, Virginia.
• U.S. prisons aren't ready for a coronavirus outbreak:

1. U.S. prisons and jails are already death-machines. Adding a deadly virus will almost surely exacerbate things and produce a mass catastrophe. https://t.co/vFYfyP4i1s.

— David Menschel (@davidminpdx) March 8, 2020

• Markets aren't taking kindly to the coronavirus situation:

Just so normie non-finance people understand what's going on right now, stock market futures plunged so hard that they LITERALLY SHUT DOWN THE WHOLE THING: https://t.co/5Z8tYYde4E via @markets

— Joshua Green (JoshuaGreen.bsky.social on ????) (@JoshuaGreen) March 9, 2020

• When (all alone!) in Rome…

Rome without tourists. This is surreal. pic.twitter.com/IhKODhKsGv

— Courtney Mares (@catholicourtney) March 7, 2020

 

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

CPAC attendees had better hope that Trump was right.

We probably all should, even if it means four more years.

[Cyto]

Wow. Cuts to the bone. Nice!

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hello.

Harris: I endorse Joe! Let's get together for a drink!

/wink.

[R Mac]

It was a telling statement.

[De Oppresso Liber]

What happens when a cult of personality meets an epidemic? Find out soon!

[squid_hunt]

At least Trump didn't find out about it by watching the news.

[Mother's lament]

Fuck off. ENB has deliberately lied about and twisted here what the actual question was that the CPAC goers agreed with.

She claims: "Conferencegoers told a Hannity correspondent that Democrats were deliberately freaking out over nothing in order "to make the economy tank"
This is an utter fucking lie.

In fact in the very fucking video she linked, the correspondent actually asked the conference goers "Do you think that the Democrats are politicizing the virus?" To which they (like anyone with a brain) said "absolutely"; and one said they were politicizing it with the hope "to make the economy tank".

Not that the virus was "nothing" as ENB builds her lie on, but that they were politicizing it with the hope to make the economy tank... which they totally fucking are.

It's pulling weaselly bullshit like this that is destroying Reason.
Seriously. Fuck you ENB. Did you think we're all too lazy and stupid to check out your "cites"?
I hate what this magazine is becoming.

[Mother's lament]

Oh, and none of the "CPAC Attendees Mocked Coronavirus Fears"

Your headline is a lie too, ENB.

[MJBinAL]

Not to mention the constant harping on open borders which, once this virus spreads, is going to mean a constant flow of new cases and carriers across the border.

I have been mentioning this for YEARS, that letting people bypass normal immigration and the INS was a huge disease infection source. We had eliminated polio, measles, and TB, now we have all three back in the US courtesy of illegal immigration.

So ENB and the rest of you asshats can stick it.

[De Oppresso Liber]

"We had eliminated polio, measles, and TB, now we have all three back in the US courtesy of illegal immigration."

Citation? While I agree that immigrants should be screened for communicable diseases, and illegal immigration obviously bypasses that, I have not seen any real studies or literature that have been able to tie illegal immigration and recurrence of diseases. I find far more evidence about voluntary anti vaccination idiocy causing outbreaks.

[JesseAz]

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2019/s0424-highest-measles-cases-since-elimination.html

"The recent outbreaks started through importation. Measles is imported when an unvaccinated traveler visits a country where there is widespread measles transmission, gets infected with measles, and returns to the United States and exposes people in a community who are not vaccinated."

There is also a WHO study that has been out since the 1990s in how they are tracking re-emergence of dead diseases in Europe and elsewhere for such things as cholera.

"I have not seen any real studies or literature that have been able to tie illegal immigration and recurrence of diseases."

Because you believe ignorance is bliss.

No, immigration isn't the sole factor, idiot hippies is part of it. But the diseases come in through immigration. Generally legal immigration has at least some screening ability. Illegal immigration exacerbates the problem as can be seen from infection rates at border facilities.

[R Mac]

“Because you believe ignorance is bliss.“

He really does.

[Mother's lament]

"legal immigration has screening ability. Illegal immigration exacerbates the problem"

And this is one of the reasons why Jeff and the Reasonistas deliberately conflate illegal with legal immigration. Their narrative would fall apart if they didn't.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Do I? if you were honest for a moment and used good faith, you would have seen this in my comment above, "While I agree that immigrants should be screened for communicable diseases, and illegal immigration obviously bypasses that..."

[R Mac]

Way to admit you’re Jeff.

[De Oppresso Liber]

You keep calling me Jeff. I'm not Jeff. But if you insist on talking about me as Jeff, I'm going to respond.

[De Oppresso Liber]

And I like how you gloss over the whole topic of discussion (in which you are proven wrong, again) and focus on some unrelated minutia.

I'm detecting a pattern.

[De Oppresso Liber]

I appreciate the source. I don't see them tying the outbreaks to illegal immigration at all, once again. They actually talk about unvaccinated travelers visiting Measels infected areas and returning. The whole quote emphasizes anti vaxx culpability much more than travelers or immigrants.

"The recent outbreaks started through importation. Measles is imported when an unvaccinated traveler visits a country where there is widespread measles transmission, gets infected with measles, and returns to the United States and exposes people in a community who are not vaccinated. When measles is imported into a community with a highly vaccinated population, outbreaks either don’t happen or are usually small. However, once measles is in an under-vaccinated community, it becomes difficult to control the spread of the disease.

The World Health Organization reported this month that there has been a 300% increase in the number of measles cases worldwide compared with the first 3 months of 2018. That increase is part of a global trend seen over the past few years as other countries struggle with declining vaccination rates and may be exacerbating the situation here.

A significant factor contributing to the outbreaks in New York is misinformation in the communities about the safety of the measles/mumps/rubella vaccine. Some organizations are deliberately targeting these communities with inaccurate and misleading information about vaccines. CDC continues to encourage parents to speak to their family’s healthcare provider about the importance of vaccination. CDC also encourages local leaders to provide accurate, scientific-based information to counter misinformation."

[Vince Smith]

I'm not for illegal immigration, but your quote clearly says those diseases are re-emerging due to unvaccinated Americans getting the disease in third world countries, not because of illegals. Those same diseases have been eradicated in Mexico and the rest of Latin America.

[Vince Smith]

Also, you claim to be against raising taxes yet support Trump's trade war. Lol.

[JesseAz]

Another.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6247124/

Again, you are ignorant because you are willingly so.

[MJBinAL]

He is not ignorant, he is a liar.

"I don’t see them tying the outbreaks to illegal immigration at all, once again. They actually talk about unvaccinated travelers visiting Measels infected areas and returning."

Not connecting the idea that going overseas, being exposed to infection sources, and returning, to to bringing the same infection sources here directly would require mind blowing stupidity.

[loveconstitution1789]

Illegal immigration isn’t just a security issue — it’s a public health crisis in the making

[De Oppresso Liber]

I noticed 0% of your comment deals with a cult of personality meeting an unmovable force.

[Mother's lament]

???
Obama isn't in office anymore and neither is Hilldog.

[JesseAz]

Flu is up to 20k deaths... how many is Coronavirus up to? Keep being scared.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Some at CPAC know that they had contact directly with the infected person (whose identity is not being revealed).

Must also be a whistleblower.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

It was Kirkland. We can only hope he quarantines himself from the comments section.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Surgeon General, "The risk is low to the average American."

But his eyes were blinking Morse code: GET TO A CUBAN HOSPITAL

[Juice]

God damn. How do you do it? Fucking gold.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yeah, for some reason that idea made even me laugh.

[Commenter_XY]

ROTFLMAO.....

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Fist knocks it out of the park sometimes. Respect.

[darkflame]

HA

[Don't look at me!]

“Deadly Virus”.
Aren’t most of them?

[Nonstopdrivel]

No. The overwhelming majority of them—probably well over 99 percent—have no clinically discernable effect at all. There are probably more viruses that haven't been discovered than have, precisely for that reason.

[some guy]

Yeah, it's bad for the virus to kill its host. Socialists should pay attention.

[Fist of Etiquette]

"Does anybody die from the flu? I didn't know people died from the flu." (Trump's grandfather died of the flu.)

Trump's grandpa died from complications from influenza.

The commoners today are dying from Trump's affluenza. Am I right, people?

[Jerryskids]

Exactly!

ENB, criticizing Trump for saying something brilliant that she's too stupid to appreciate how brilliant it was. See, everybody dies from the same thing - your heart stops working, you stop getting oxygenated blood to your brain, your brain can't tell your heart to pump more oxygenated blood, you die. Whether the heart and the brain stop working due to a bullet to the head, being run over by a tank, getting fed through a woodchipper, having your arms cut off with a chainsaw or your heart just wore out - it's always the same cause of death, heart and brain stopped working.

Trump's right again! Trump's always right! Trump's critics are still sad failed losers. You can tell they're sad failed losers because they've criticized Trump. Like an awful lot of the sad failed losers that Trump has so brilliantly appointed to his own cabinet.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yet no one else could even attempt their own tests, thanks to the Food and Drug Administration (FDA).

Thanks to the libertarians who've taken over government healthcare!

[Naaman Brown]

The federal bureaucracy is libertarian ... not.
The federal bureaucracy is deep statist.

May be I missed [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags in that statement.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

LabCorp and Quest both announced this AM that they have an approved test available.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Pending FDA approval, I hope!

[speedylee]

What would an individual’s panic look like right now? What is the correct thing to do right now (or not do!) according to our betters? I wouldn't want to do the wrong thing here....

[Throw MAGA from the Train]

Bring out your dead

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

No one wants to hear about your sex life again.

[Naaman Brown]

No more than you would with any other mutate virus.

I have been on this planet 72 years and have survived influenza and lived thru influenza outbreaks of the latest doomy gloomy mutant killer varieties. Unfortunately I'll probably survive this influenza outbreak and have to live a few more years putting up with you panicky knuckleheads.

2017 Centers for Disease Control, Deaths in America
Total Number of deaths: 2,813,503
Total USA population: approx 325,980,000
Death rate: 863.8 deaths per 100,000 population (or 1 of 116 people)
Leading causes of death:
8. Influenza and pneumonia: 55,672

A lot of the pneumonia deaths are complications of influenza which is why CDC lists them together as one CoD.

If we did not have a mass panick and political upheaval over 55,672 deaths from Influenza and Pneumonia in the USA in 2017, we should exercise caution but not panic over this strain of influenza.

COVID-19 is the UN WHO name of this outbreak: short for Coronavirus Disease 2019; it is also known as the 2019-20 Coronavirus Outbreak.
Cause: SARS-Cov-2 is the short name for this mutant virus, full name is Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2.

As of 7 Mar 2020
Countries reporting diagnosed cases: China, Hong Kong, Iran, Italy, Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Ireland and the United States
105,558 identified cases
58,354 fully recovered cases
3,646 deaths (which are 1% to 3% of diagnosed cases)

Common symptoms: fever, dry cough, fatigue
Uncommon symptoms: some or all of headeache, nasal congestion, sore throat, coughing up sputum, short breath, muscle or joint pain, chills, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea
Prevention: Hand washing, cough etiquette, avoiding close contact with sick people.

My takeaway: The majority of Coronavirus cases may be undiagnosed. The symptoms common & even uncommon are not unusual for the cold and flu season. If any patient dies, a medical examiner usually seeks out Cause of Death (CoD) so we probably have an unknown number of undiagnosed cases of Coronavirus relative to the number of identified deaths. Stressing out over it can weaken your immune system. You are likely to survive even if you have it. Avoid passing viruses around; don't infect the vulnerable: wash your hands, don't cough on people, avoid getting coughed on, avoid close contact with sick people. If you feel like a cold or flu coming on, avoid contacting people who may not have been exposed to whatever you may have even if its not SARS-Cov-2. Ordinary flu will ptobably kill more Americans than SARS-Cov-2. Rational priorities please.

Yes, there is the lurking spectre of the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic that infected 500 million people worldwide and killed over 20 million people world, with a death rate that reached 4% to 10% of inflected persons. (And that was Spanish flu not Spanish fly.)

[Fist of Etiquette]

Bill Gates Foundation will begin offering home-testing coronavirus testing kits in Seattle area that will allow people to send nose-swab samples back for analysis

You'll have to install required updates and even then that free antivirus will be marginal at best.

[Cyto]

This Covid-19 stuff is dumb.

It is unquestionably true that the DNC and their operatives have been gleefully fanning the flames of panic over the virus. If you doubt it just go have a look at their twitter feeds. They are hoping and praying that this will bring Trump down. Loudly and publicly. And then they go on the evening news to tell us that Trump created a disaster with the coronavirus.

At the same time, it is also true that it is a disease worthy of treating with concern and addressing as a major public health threat. So not going to work if you know you are infected or potentially infected is the right course of action.

See? Two things that seem to be in opposition are actually not in opposition. The risk to individual Americans is very low at this point in time. Hell, the risk to individual Chinese citizens is very low at this point in time. 61,000 Americans died of flu in the 2017-2018 flu season. Do you remember the panic in the streets? The 4-7 different stories run on every news show?

Because this virus is new, there are uncertainties about the threat. That is why there is such a large reaction. But it is also true that this isn't the apocalypse, it isn't the greatest health threat in history, and it isn't Trump's fault that a novel zoonotic infection would crop up in a Chinese market.

[Halykan]

Mmmm, indeed, one beneficial side effect of his boneheaded trade war is that it slightly delayed the spread of the virus from China to the US, due to reduced trade volume. Had the FDA/CDC not decided to suddenly get strangely territorial over the testing kits, the various private and public institutions here could've put that time to good use.

Regardless, I think people are freaking out entirely too much over the whole thing. The CDC's best estimates of case fatality, factoring in the high likelihood of most mild cases going undetected, is around 0.2-0.3% worldwide, which will probably be less in the US. It's essentially the same as a severe flu season, but most likely with lower child mortality.

People who are pointing to the stock market plunge need to remember that there's a big price shock in oil that just happened as well, since the Saudis have decided to renew their price war. Maybe we can get the talking heads to explain again just what it is we're gaining from our alliance with that benighted place?

[Shitlord of the Woodchippers]

“Bone headed trade war”

Yeah, We had such a great deal with China. That status quo was just so awesome.

[JesseAz]

" one beneficial side effect of his boneheaded trade war"

The trade war that included China telling ships to turn back to China to return already sold medical goods to the US. Yes, we should keep believing China is acting in good faith and a free market partner...

[Nonstopdrivel]

Off topic, and of interest probably only to me: I'm an etymology nerd, so I used to wonder why influenza looks like it could be the Italian word for "influence." When I finally got around to looking it up, I learned that it in fact is the Italian word for "influence," and that the disease was so named because it was believed to be caused by the unpropitious influence of the stars. The term is quite literally an astrological reference. I find that fascinating.

[speedylee]

I also find this interesting.

[I, Woodchipper]

I also find that interesting

[BigT]

I find this and that interesting.

[R Mac]

There’s interest all the way down.

[Earth Skeptic]

Or influence.

[Aloysious]

If you are interested, The Great Courses has a lecture series, now an audio book on amazon

https://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B01FWOO2G6/reasonmagazinea-20/

that discusses that very detail, "the unpropitious influence of the stars" among many other beliefs. Very interesting, IMO.

[Naaman Brown]

Bull. It was all the influence of miasma, bad air disease.
The influence of Italian stars ... humm ... the actresses in the Italian scary movies influenced me, but it was teenage crush not influenza.

Here's my [sarcasm][/sarcasm] tags, I'm too lazy to insert them

[darkflame]

huh, the more you know.

[squid_hunt]

"It is unquestionably true that the DNC and their operatives have been gleefully fanning the flames of panic over the virus."

Hey, buddy, we all read the article...

[Cyto]

I laughed.

[Mother's lament]

Chuckle

[Commenter_XY]

At the same time, it is also true that it is a disease worthy of treating with concern and addressing as a major public health threat.

For those with suppressed immune systems, self-quarantine is a must. This virus preferentially knocks off people with pre-existing medical conditions.

[Throw MAGA from the Train]

Where is LoveCon1929?

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

Writing Reason an email asking why they still allow you to post after you were banned for posting Kiddie porn and being incapable of making a screen name without a sex reference or that isn't 30 years old at least.

[Mother's lament]

"sex reference or that isn’t 30 years old"

Nah, he won't touch a sex reference older than eleven.

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

Where's a fucking "like" button when you need one?

[Ra's al Gore]

Evita Duffy, a self-described conservative Hispanic woman, writes in an op-ed in the Chicago Maroon, the University of Chicago’s student newspaper, about what happened after she pointed out how socialism is more dangerous than the coronavirus:

Fellow students attacked my character, my intellect, my family, my appearance, and even threatened me with physical violence, using foul and offensive language. I was called a racist and a xenophobe. Some compared me to animals. Others declared that they would personally stop me from voting, and many defended the personal attacks, saying I deserved to be bullied and that I don’t belong at the University of Chicago on account of my beliefs. I was told by many that I was the most hated person on campus. It was frightening. It was also hurtful, since some of the attacks came from people I considered friends.

[creech]

If Milton Friedman was still there and lecturing, image the shit he would be taking.

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

How very nice of those socialists to prove her point for her.

[Earth Skeptic]

Liberals gotta lib.

If lib means violently attacking any divergence from liberal orthodoxy. (Can there be such a thing?)

[Fist of Etiquette]

I will do everything in my power to help elect him the next President of the United States.

— Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) March 8, 2020

...she said, menacingly twirling handcuffs on her finger.

[Cyto]

Holy crap, you are on a tear this morning. Double espresso with your bagel?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Sometimes ENB and reality make a great straight man.

[Don't look at me!]

Good thing she has no power.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Joe: Everything Kamala? /wink?

[Troglodyte Rex]

You think he would sniff that dog-faced pony soldier?

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

I don't think Joe even knows what he's sniffing anymore. He's like a dog, venturing to learn about the world around him via his sense of smell. It's only a matter of time until he moves on to licking things.

[Troglodyte Rex]

I wonder if the chemicals in shampoo and other hair products is what is driving his onset of dementia.

[Ra's al Gore]

Trinity College sociology professor Johnny Williams is the gift that keeps on giving, so to speak.

In an end-of-February op-ed in the Hartford Courant, Williams says white people preside over an “oppressive system,” and when people of color “refuse to abide” by this system, they’re accused of “inciting hatred and violence.”

The professor is referencing the controversy following comments he made about the shootings of GOP congressman Steve Scalise and others three years ago. Williams wrote that, in whatever predicament you may them, “let [white people] fucking die” … and to “smile a bit” when it happens.

[R Mac]

He sounds fun at parties.

[Earth Skeptic]

He could join a Dick Cheney hunting party.

[Mother's lament]

"In an end-of-February op-ed in the Hartford Courant"

Good old Hartford Courant. I wonder if they regularly lend their op-ed page to racist eliminationists. You know, an op-ed by the kiddies at Stormfront, another one by the Interahamwe...

[Fist of Etiquette]

It's still illegal to curse in Arlington, Virginia.

Virginia is for motherlovers.

[petrakohlerz1]

all other mother lovers can spend some time having fun with sex klagenfurt girls

[Anomalous]

I don't know how I avoided arrest when I lived there.

[R Mac]

Would this be acceptable?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VMvraSQEW5w

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

And melon farmers.

[Fist of Etiquette]

U.S. prisons and jails are already death-machines. Adding a deadly virus will almost surely exacerbate things and produce a mass catastrophe.

THERE OUGHT TO BE A LAW. Which will be used to replenish the supply of prisoners.

[Nonstopdrivel]

Between depopulating the prisons and annihilating the Social Security and Medicare rolls, maybe the coronavirus will succeed where generations of politicians have failed so spectacularly—at balancing the federal budget.

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

So you're saying the coronavirus is the most libertarian candidate available?

[R Mac]

#libertarianmoment

[Gray_Jay]

With the Sweet Meteor of Death being such a cocktease, sure.

LOL, 3 million miles.

[Colossal Douchebag]

#Covid-19-2020

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

The virus has the fiscal policy under control, we just need someone who can advance the personal liberty angles. Lo and behold, John McAfee was just looking for a VP spot last week!

[Lester224]

"..and decrease the surplus population".

Sounds like A Modest Proposal. Maybe you can propose eating babies next.

[Nonstopdrivel]

Gee, it's almost as though intelligent, thinking people can adjust their views and make course corrections as new information comes to light.

[loveconstitution1789]

CPAC Attendees Mocked Coronavirus Fears. Now Some Are Self-Quarantining.

Makes you wonder. The only way to possibly stop Trump from being reelected is for the economy to quickly tumble and some emergency where Americans need the swift hand of the Police State to protect them.

Coronavirus2019

[Don't look at me!]

Self quarantine beats quarantine at the point of a gun.

[Ken Hagler]

Keep in mind that we saw the same hysterical fearmongering over SARS, the Avian Flu, and Ebola. It's the nature of media to promote hysteria, and the nature of academia and governments to exploit it to gain money and power.

While I have noticed more hysteria over Coronavirus than over previous diseases, I think that's just because Americans are getting more and more cowardly with each passing year.

[BigT]

The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary. H L Mencken

Same for MSM to get viewers/readers: If it bleeds, it leads.

[Throw MAGA from the Train]

Damn, your enemies have amazing abilities. You should probably find some place to hide out.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Sorry about your losses. That was epic bad market timing, bro. I tried to warn you.

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

Hey, speak of the Tony.

[loveconstitution1789]

Im buying stock like crazy. Getting great deals.

It will be fun to make enough off this Lefty Propaganda scare to buy unreason for Koch.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Uh huh. You said you were on a buying spree for the last 3 weeks. How dumb do you think we are? You are a bag holder. Own it.

[loveconstitution1789]

I think YOU are very dumb.

Buy BUY buy!

[De Oppresso Liber]

I'm dumb? The guy who told you you were buying overpriced stocks last week, and who is now proven correct? Ok bud. Keep buying right before huge sell offs. Not a strategy I'm familiar with.

[loveconstitution1789]

All the stocks that I buy will gain value over time. Its just how long I have to sit on them. Some people play the short game, some people play the long. I won on the Bitcoin long game.

Sometimes you just need some capital losses to lower your taxable income.

[Ken Hagler]

Wow, you mean everyone who went to CPAC isn't part of a giant hive mind who all think exactly the same thoughts at the same time? Who could possibly have predicted that?

[Mother's lament]

The thing is, ENB is lying about what they said.

If you watch the video that she cites, the attendees say that the virus is being "politicized" by the Democrats. None of them say that the virus is "nothing", like she claims.

What these lefties are doing to this magazine is disgusting.

[Naaman Brown]

They do tend to add what they think people meant to reporting about what they actually said, don't they?

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

"Kamala Harris endorses Joe Biden"

I'm glad she managed to forgive his opposition to race-based busing. Maybe if she's his VP pick she can get him to reconsider that position.

#LibertariansForBusing

[BigT]

I’m sure they’ll be discussing lots of positions.

[Cyto]

Perspective:

Worldwide we are pushing toward 4,000 deaths from coronavirus (Covid-19)

In the USA we have already lost over 10,000 to influenza this season.

And here's an article from just 2 years back:

NEW YORK — An estimated 80,000 Americans died of flu and its complications last winter — the disease’s highest death toll in at least four decades.

The director of the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Dr. Robert Redfield, revealed the total in an interview Tuesday night with The Associated Press.

Flu experts knew it was a very bad season, but at least one found size of the estimate surprising.

“That’s huge,” said Dr. William Schaffner, a Vanderbilt University vaccine expert. The tally was nearly twice as much as what health officials previously considered a bad year, he said.

Worldwide the flu kills around a half-million every year (that we know of). Between 10 and 50 million die of all diseases.

[Gray_Jay]

I'm on your side with this, as far as the being aware of the public health problems, but not going bugshit insane with fear.

But... many if not most of the deaths from Covid-19, aren't going to show up as Covid-related if places keep lagging in testing patients. The deaths are going to show up as nonspecific pneumonias, or as caused by a Covid patient's other co-morbidities, or they'll pick up a nosocomial infection which kills them. Further, the low death rate is with all hospital resources available for treating a patient, no matter how sick they get. Fill the beds with covid sufferers, and doctors will have to start aggressively triaging cases. The death rate will go up.

All of which is to say, it's not the end of this country, or anything to panic about, but neither is it 'just the flu, bro'.

[Azathoth!!]

I'm pretty sure no one is dying from just COVID-19.

They're dying from co-morbidities and opportunistic infection.

COVID-19 appears to be very similar to every other coronavirus in that viral family we call 'the common cold'.

It's that old phrase, the cold settled in her chest and developed into pneumonia. Pneumonia is the killer, the cold or COVID-19 just let it in.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

Now that Biden has turned his campaign around, you're going to see more ridiculous assertions that he's lost a step or two mentally. Don't believe them.

So who is out there on Twitter pushing the BS story of Biden’s “cognitive decline”? Trump supporters, Bernie Bros and the Russians. Huh.

#LibertariansForBiden
#BidenIsAsSharpAsEver

[Cyto]

And here I thought it was being pushed by Biden in his on-stage performances.....

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

Literally all of Biden's so-called "gaffes" are simply the result of having stuttered as a child.

Joe Biden's opponents on the left and right are spreading a disgusting and baseless smear that he is in "cognitive decline," based on verbal slip-ups he makes when trying to suppress his childhood stutter. It's ageist and ableist AF. Stop doing it.

[Cyto]

I wanted to post a compilation of gaffes in response, so I did a quick google search. Wow. There's a lot to chose from. I didn't like the first two I pulled up, so here's an article with a list instead.

https://pjmedia.com/election/the-top-21-biden-gaffes-of-the-2020-campaign-so-far/

Note, his solution to parenting and teaching your kids by turning on the radio for them at night was not on the list.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

“They gonna put y’all back in chains!” is my fave Biden stutter.

[Roger Knights]

WaPo had a column out today titled "First the Onion created 'Diamond Joe' Biden. Then it destroyed him. (About the increasing harshness of the Onion's mockery.) Here's the link:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/arts-entertainment/2020/03/09/joe-biden-diamond-joe-onion/

[Don't look at me!]

He was sharp as a tack on Super Thursday!

[R Mac]

Lol.

[squid_hunt]

"#BidenIsAsSharpAsEver" has been determined to be mostly true.

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

"CPAC Attendees Mocked Coronavirus Fears. Now Some Are Self-Quarantining."

OK... Is it the same people in both cases? Your info appears to show that it isn't.

So...um...is that it? Because next time someone shits all over "Reason" because of Dalmia, I'll stop pointing out that Reason isn't a monolith.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

Reason may not be a monolith, but everyone who works here agrees with Shikha Dalmia on open borders. Charles Koch wouldn't hire them otherwise.

#ImmigrationAboveAll

[Butler T. Reynolds]

DRINK! It's the OpenBordersLiberal-tarian drinking game! Take a shot every time OpenBordersLiberal-tarian exposes his huge Koch fetish.

[Mother's lament]

Fuck off, Charles. He has a point.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

“Everyone who works here”?

OBL is on staff? Hmmmmmm.....

[Ken Shultz]

It really is interesting the way people quarantine themselves. This was especially striking in Italy and South Korea, where those two governments didn't really have the means to enforce a quarantine--but enforcing it wasn't really necessary. Once people become genuinely concerned, they simply stay home. It's like ahead of a hurricane. It's generally unnecessary to order people out of low lying coastal areas head of a hurricane. Most people who can evacuate ahead of a hurricane without the government telling them to do so.

What isn't interesting is the idea that CPAC people would react differently to the fear of a virus when compared to the virus actually circulating among them. He said he didn't think the chances of the house burning down but when the place caught on fire, he called 911! That isn't really a gotcha moment. The fact is that the fear of the virus is doing more harm to our economy than the actual virus itself, and just because we recognize that fact doesn't mean we'd rather not get sick or spread the virus to others.

[Ron]

there is precautionary actions and there is panic reactions what the media and left wants is panic and blame while what we see from CPAC and others is precautionary. that said release the infected persons name so anyone who was near can take precautionary action.

[BigT]

We really do have ‘nothing to fear but fear itself’...now.

[sarcasmic]

Hope Hicks is still hot.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8083803/Hope-Hicks-gets-haircut-packs-LA-home-returns-Washington-D-C.html

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

"Hope Hicks is still hot."

This is the shit he cries at me for interrupting.

[Conchfritters]

She looks better than before when she was caking the makeup on.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

Bernie picks up a major endorsement!

Rev. Jesse Jackson has endorsed a Bernie Sanders and will appear at Sanders’ campaign event in Grand Rapids Michigan this morning, per campaign.

Expect this civil rights icon to give Bernie a substantial boost.

[Sevo]

One more loser who never held a job. Good pairing.

[Nonstopdrivel]

"A" Bernie Sanders? Which one?

[Cyto]

See my link about Jussie Smollette. Jackson is out protesting, claiming that his arrest by the police was because they are racist, and that racism is the reason that people are questioning why the current DA dropped the charges.

[Earth Skeptic]

So racism made Smolllette invent a fake racism incident?

[Rich]

The Dow Jones Industrial Average tanked more than 2,000 points, while the S&P 500 plunged 7.2%.

The massive sell-off triggered a key market circuit breaker in morning trading.

This is great news! Now more Americans can afford to invest in the market!

[loveconstitution1789]

+100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

[Trainer]

"Bill Gates Foundation will begin offering home-testing coronavirus testing kits in Seattle area that will allow people to send nose-swab samples back for analysis"

Um, how are they sending them back and who is handling the packages that people who may be contagious have handled?

[Cyto]

What do they think of our politics overseas?

Here's an Australian take. "There's not enough popcorn in the world for a Biden-Trump debate."

[squid_hunt]

I am going to assume that resonates universally. I'm laughing just thinking about it. Although watching Bernie pout and throw tantrums while Trump smirks would be epic.

[Cyto]

The video is worth the watch. The Australian anchor actually calls the US media propaganda for the Democrats. I am surprised at their level of knowledge of US politics, being literally on the opposite side of the planet.

[ByteRot]

I mean, culture is our main export, right? And when the culture has devolved to political podcasts (hey there, Reason Roundtable), politics on Twitter, and cable news...

[Conchfritters]

Markets aren't taking kindly to the coronavirus situation

Today is more the news of Saudi Arabia and Russia leaving the negotiating table, and oil prices falling off a cliff. Energy markets getting hammered today.

[Cyto]

Which should be driving everything else up. The cost of energy dropping should lower costs for every single product that requires energy to produce and transport to market.

[Conchfritters]

I agree 100% - low gas prices are a gift to consumers. But the banks have lent out all kinds of cash to small oil producers, who are going to get fucked by low oil prices, and thus the financial sector is getting kicked in the nuts today too (and also because interest rates have fallen off a cliff). And $20/barrel oil, if it gets to that, could prove to be downright catastrophic for failed petrol-kleptocracies like Iran, Iraq, and Venezuela. My guess is that Saudi Arabia and Russia will work out a deal soon.

[John]

I am skeptical a deal will be worked out. We have not had a real oil bust in a while. We are due for one. Oil always busts.

I think overall the effect of oil prices both good and bad on the economy are a lot less than they were. Since we don't import much oil anymore, the price shocks don't hurt us as much. It just moves money around in the economy from one sector to another rather than out of the country entirely. Consumers are hurt but producers get rich. When they drop the same is true in reverse. The flip side of that, however, is that in the same way price shocks don't send us into a recession like they used to, the price dropping doesn't help the economy overall as much as it used to.

[Cyto]

We don't import oil because domestic oil is cheaper. Prices drop enough... we'll happily buy Saudi Oil at $12 per barrel, even as oil production in the US grinds to a halt.

[John]

Yes, we will go back to importing it but the lower prices will make up for that money moving out of the economy. Also, lower prices will create more incentive for the domestic producers to get more efficient. A few years ago everyone was amazed that the cost of fracking had fallen enough that it was still profitable at $60 a barrel. Today it is profitable at around $40 a barrel. I don't know what the price floor for fracking is. The laws of physics may start to catch up with us such that it can't get much or any cheaper. A oil bust, however, will test that theory and make it as efficient as possible. The good news is that the oil will still be there when the price goes back up. Unless the US loses its mind and bans fracking, the long term ceiling of the price of oil is whatever the minimum price to make fracking profitable is.

[Cyto]

My thoughts exactly.....

[Commenter_XY]

The floor is considerably lower than $30/barrel for US frackers. In the Permian and Eagle Rock formations, breakevens are in the teens. KSA might fuck Iran, Iraq and Russia, but they can't fuck us. They'd fuck themselves royally if they tried.

KSA needs oil at ~50 bucks to handle their current spending. They can weather a shock for about 9 months, then it is going to really hurt. Meaning, civil unrest. That prospect does not bother me. KSA is not our friend. They are an ally of convenience.

[Conchfritters]

There’s still time for these two pals to work something out. $20 barrel of oil would seriously fuck Russia.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BZUCld-u0yc

[Commenter_XY]

I won't cry about the Soviets Russians getting butt-fucked.

[JFree]

Some CPAC attendees are angry about what they see as too little information, too late, from CPAC organizers

Odd group to be complaining about this sort of thing. They have a direct connection to God hisself. They were privy to Donald "every one of these doctors said, ‘how do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability." Trump's musings. And they have all the free market (and free too) info they could possibly need via Dr Google or Dr Duckduckgo. WTF else are they looking for?

Thankfully, private institutions are stepping up to fill the gaps left by government testing schemes:

The only 'gap' is that they are using the WHO guidelines for that testing like almost every other country. Said countries also have private companies compete to produce the testing kits even though only China and Korea have really ramped up production now. The reason the CDC screwed the pooch on this is because they wanted to do their own thing because America is special and we have all the experts. This isn't some 'libertarian' proof of anything.

[Cyto]

He's baaaaaack!

Jessie Jackson and Rainbow-Push are out in force, claiming that the Chicago Police are racist for questioning the dropping of charges against Jussie Smollette. In fact, the whole thing is just a racist plot.

[Sevo]

He's on Uncle Joe's team now; this is just what the MD ordered for Joe.
Imagine him answering questions on "Jussie Smollette".

[Sevo]

Ooops.
He's on Bernie's team.
But I still await Joe's comments.

[Earth Skeptic]

That's OK. Joe can't remember either.

[Ken Shultz]

We're likely to see a lot of pressure on banks because of loan defaults tied to this virus (which is what the stress on the corporate bond market is about, too), and the time to make it clear to Congress that we don't want any bank bailouts is probably right now.

WTI is dropping way below the price those wells are worth drilling, and the banks that are lending to those guys are in deep water right now. Retailers who were already under stress aren't about to make up for all the lost shoppers over the next few weeks by selling products that haven't been manufactured in China over the last month.

A great libertarian once said, "The future's uncertain and the end is always near". It might seem like this economic shock is built on irrational fear, so everybody should stay the course, but if it impacts the ability of companies to finance their debt, banks to finance economic expansion, and retailers to stock their shelves, it doesn't matter whether the motivation is irrational or not.

Meanwhile, there is very little the government can do, there is even less that the government should do, and if President Trump does practically nothing, he'll be doing the best thing he can do.

[Cyto]

This is a pretty important observation.

With mark-to-market pricing and banking regulations about cash reserves, market uncertainty can create insolvency out of thin air. We saw this in spades back in 2008.

If you have a series of bonds that are paying your expected return, but there is some uncertainty about the future default rate, you can't sell them. So there is no market.... (who would sell a 7% bond if nobody will take it at less than 20%? You'd just hold it and take the 7%, right? But that's not how mark to market works. You have to value it on your balance sheet as "what I could get on the market today. But if there is no willing seller, there is no market. But Mark to Market says you have to pretend you would sell at that price. So your $300 million loan portfolio is suddenly valued at $70 million, even though you would never sell at that price and you'd happily wait to get paid $425 million for it over the next 8 years. But banking regulations make you have to sell right into the teeth of an uncertain market.... rendering your entire institution insolvent)

So there is something governments can and should do. Or stop doing. They need to fix the fix they put in place after Enron with SOX. No rational person would value an asset backed securities portfolio based on "what could I sell it for today?" if today's market doesn't reflect the value of the assets backing the securities.

[Ken Shultz]

When Bear Stearns and Lehman cratered, it was because they bought subprime mortgages out of bankruptcy court that were priced at pennies on the dollar compared to the value of the homes that were backing them.

They overpaid!

It took a whole year between the time New Century's subprime portfolio went into bankruptcy court and Bear Stearns and Lehman failed--due to assets they acquired for far below their long term value.

In times of default, the only thing that really matters is liquidation value. If you can't service your debt by liquidating your assets, it doesn't matter if the home is only relatively worthless at the moment because there isn't a buyer anywhere in sight.

There is no such thing as a paper loss--certainly not in times of default. If you can't service your debt because the market is panicking right at the time your debt service is due, then the problem is caused by the market itself and accounting changes won't make any difference.

[Ken Shultz]

It feels like 2008 all over again, and it's probably time to dust off those arguments against TARP again . . .

The people who are best equipped to suffer losses associated with defaulting loans are the people who willing took on the risk of making those loans--and the investors who bought and held those banks' stocks.

If you don't want airlines to default on loans you made to them because a virus killed demand for international flights, there's an easy way to avoid that: don't make loans to international airlines without pricing in the risk of a virus destroying demand for international flights. If we want banks to be more cautious in their lending practices in the future, letting them suffer the results of their bad decisions is the best way to accomplish that.

There are those who will tell us that the problem is restoring investor confidence, but in these kinds of cases, "investor confidence" is just another way of advocating "moral hazard". We won't want banks to lend more without fear of default. We want them to fear default and lend accordingly.

[Commenter_XY]

It feels like 2008 all over again, and it’s probably time to dust off those arguments against TARP again

Oh please. The market went down more in December 2018 than it has in the last 30 days. Give us a collective break. The credit markets have not frozen up. If anything, it is probably time to rebalance a little from bonds to equities to maintain your asset allocation.

When the market is fearful, that is the time to move in and make a killing.

[JFree]

Oh yeah. Covering up fraud is a MUCH better approach to dealing with insolvency.

[JFree]

OTOH - the time may be nigh for toilet-paper backed currency

[JFree]

the time to make it clear to Congress that we don’t want any bank bailouts is probably right now.

Which is completely missing the point as to why they were bailed out last time. They were bailed out because they threatened to freeze up the money system and bring the economy down. Same shit they threatened Andrew Jackson with back in the day. Always the same shit they threaten. And its a far more credible threat than a bunch of morons writing their critter 'No more bailout'.

Congress will tell the banks no if and only if there is an alternative to having the banks have a distribution and creation monopoly over the 'US dollar'.

'Alternatives to the current US dollar' are not an alternative course of action. Faced with banks on one side threatening to shoot the US dollar and pie-in-the-sky peddlers on the other trying to hype their book of gold/bitcoin/etc - Congress will go along with the bank extortion. Period.

Alternative course of action means alternative distribution/creation mechanism for the EXISTING US dollar. And since even in a crisis that would take at least a couple months to implement, it means selling Congressional action BEFORE the fucking crisis.

Good thing we're reading Reason which has been completely silent about the cronyism at the heart of our money system or any look back at 2008.

[Brandybuck]

> On Friday, he asked "Does anybody die from the flu? I didn't know people died from the flu." (Trump's grandfather died of the flu.)

My grandpa died of an aneurysm. If I were president I could be going around saying "Does anyone die from aneurysms?" It's crazy. This guy lies so much he's even lying to himself.

It's time for Pence to invoke the 25th and take charge.

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

I don't think anyone's surprised that you're calling for Trump to be censored.

[JFree]

I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot their mothers and I wouldn't lose my voters.

[Mickey Rat]

Trump is complaining that the Democratsand the media are stirring up a panic is over Coronaviirus and that is bad. Has a those articles on this site saying that Coraonavirus is nothing to panic over also wrong?

It is possible for Coronavirus to be a cause for concern and for the Democrsts to be exaggerating the threat for political purpos4.

[Tony]

No claim about the universe is complete without somehow blaming Democrats for something, after all.

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

Gave up on DOL already?

[Tony]

Dick on legs?

[Mickey Rat]

You have a lot less funny persona than the last Tony.

[Tony]

That's Obama's fault.

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

So "you don't go back" isn't always true?

[loveconstitution1789]

If you like your Tony, you can keep your Tony.

[ByteRot]

Cruz is hilarious. "The physicians further advised that ... my brief interaction with the individual does not meet the CDC criteria for self-quarantine. The medical authorities explicitly advised me that, given the above criteria, the people I have interacted with in the 10 days since CPAC should not be concerned about potential transmission. ... Nevertheless, ... I have decided to stay at home in Texas this week until the full 14 days have passed since my CPAC interaction. ... Everyone should continue to ... be driven by facts and medical science ... and I encourage everyone to follow the recommendations of the CDC and other health professionals..."

So, everybody, be driven by facts and the science, and follow the recommendations of your doctor and the CDC, except for when I decide to completely over-react to a 1-minute interaction including a handshake. But everybody else who's been around me, you're fine.

I mean, just come out and say it, Ted: You wanted to stay home for a week, and to be seen "taking this seriously" as publicly as possible. God, even when Republicans declare "follow the science!" they do it wrong in the very same breath.

[R Mac]

Yeah self quarantining yourself when you don’t need to, but can easily do anyway, is evil.

[John]

How stupid and selfish does a person have to be not to self quarantine if they have been exposed to the coronavirus? Yes, it is unlikely to kill your typical 20 something conservative version of the hipster doofus who goes to CPAC every year. But if you are exposed you can give it to someone who it will kill.

Our country is just devolving into the primitive. It really is.

[Cyto]

Look, I think the press is coalescing around a clear answer on this. You cannot self-quarantine... particularly if you are a conservative or republican. You should wait for the state to forcibly quarantine you. And Trump is incompetent and negligent because he has not ordered everyone into quarantine until this virus runs its course.....

[John]

Trump is incompetent because he hasn't turned into the mad tyrant the media assures us he is. That seems to be the story.

[Cyto]

But don't say they cannot adapt. I'm quite certain that any action taken will be lamented as either "too little, too late" or "an authoritarian over-reaction of a would-be dictator", depending on which one will fly.

[Tony]

Why is literally every comment by a "libertarian" a whine about how Trump's favorability will be affected by this?

Do you see that you're doing that?

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

Out of curiosity, why are you whining about someone's observations?

[John]

Tony is having orgasms over the thought of Americans dying. He is a leftist. They always get excited over death. It is causing him to be a bit more excitable and irrational than usual.

[Mother's lament]

I don't think I've ever met someone so imbued with a hatred for humanity as Tony.

[Tony]

This website could be a vibrant forum for discussion of libertarian thought. Instead it's nothing but Trump cocksucking. That's my observation.

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

There you are using your sex act as an insult again, why do you have so much self loathing?

[Fats of Fury]

Because he has to do so much self sucking. It's lonely being an Oklahoma Oklahomo.

[R Mac]

My observation is that it’s a place for leftists to claim anyone that doesn’t agree with them is brainwashed by Faux News and sucks Trumps dick.

What’s a more vibrant discussion of libertarian thought than that?

[loveconstitution1789]

unreason was sucking Hillary's cock for years.

[Tony]

I find that hard to believe on at least two levels.

[loveconstitution1789]

I know, unreason would have to push you out of the way to get at Hillary’s cock and I was conservative about it being years. It been closer to a decade.

[$park¥ is the Worst]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/08/opinions/trump-twitter-coronavirus-vinograd/index.html

But many measures are too little too late. Already there are reports about poor implementation of screening procedures at major airports, plus indications that the virus may have spread undetected in Washington state for six weeks.

[JFree]

US confirmed cases now - 761 (all over the place)
US dead now in Washington - 23
Chinese dead in the 2nd most affected province (Henan) - 22
Total number of confirmed cases in China when they locked down Hubei - 571 (80% in Wuhan)
Total number of Chinese dead (including Hubei) when they locked down Hubei - 17

Obviously you are far more highly attuned to the political leanings of this virus than I am. And for that I am glad because I'm increasingly certain that undermining its ideology is going to be far more diligent and effective than any alternative course of action based on learning anything about illegal foreign viruses from shithole countries trying to cross our borders.

We need to build a higher fucking wall against those viruses. With alligators and a moat this time.

[Bearded Spock]

Reason today: "lol those cousin-humping Trumptards didn't think coronavirus was a big deal and now they're getting sick"

Reason, just three days ago: "Well ackshually Trump is probably right about coronavirus."

Does anyone at Reason even read their own website?

[John]

Ron Bailey called it just a bad flue season last week. I do not understand why reason has decided hating Trump is more important than their integrity.

[Tony]

John, describe the ways in which Trump's actions with respect to the current pandemic have demonstrated apt and agile leadership skills.

I'll wait.

[John]

He banned travel from China about as early as anyone. He put together an interagency team headed by the VP to deal with it. He has done about everything a President can do. His actions have been no different than Obama's were when dealing with H1N1 except that they have been more proactive. Obama waited a lot longer before taking any action than Trump did.

Because you are fucking partisan moron, you have no idea what is happening around you or what good or bad actions the government is taking. All you know is that you hate the other side and being a leftist, are happy over the prospect of people dying and the opportunity to gain power because of it.

You are an evil idiot who has nothing to add to this conversation. Stop pretending you do.

[Cyto]

Did he order the closing of all ports? Did he nationalize healthcare? Did he order the production of test kits and masks for the government only, and pass out dust masks from government officials instead of Walmart?

Hell, he didn't even send the military to quarantine all of China. What kind of US president can't prevent diseases from spreading in China?

[Tony]

So do you believe that the virus is a Democratic hoax and that a vaccine for it will be available soon, or should the president stop lying?

[Sevo]

"So do you believe that the virus is a Democratic hoax and that a vaccine for it will be available soon, or should the president stop lying?"

No.
We believe you are a pathetic sack of shit who is incapable of posting here without lies or stawmen.
Fuck off and die; make the world a better place.

[Geraje Guzba]

Amen.

[Ron]

No one said the virus was a hoax but they did say the democrat reaction like yours is a hoax to create a panic at the voting booth.

A vaccine is already in the works but per FDA it will take a few years and Trump has said speed it up but testing does take time. Maybe Trumps earlier action last year to allow medical use before its fully tested may be a benifit.

[Tony]

"It’s fair to say that as the trajectory of the outbreak continues, many people in the U.S. will at some point in time this year or next be exposed to this virus and there’s a good chance many will become sick."

--Trump administration CDC official

Is that fearmongering? Because Trump said it could be 15 cases tops.

[NittanyCougar]

This really clinches it for me. You have no clue. Nobody said the virus was a hoax. Moderna has a vaccine ready for testing, and clinical trials could start as early as April (they can't get the FDA to move faster, I guess). Seriously. Bring something else to the conversation besides idiocy.

[Mother's lament]

They said the Democrats are "politicizing" the virus, which they definitely are.
Nobody has called the virus a "hoax" or "nothing".

ENB was lying above in the article, and you're lying down here in the comments.

[Tony]

Yes. Only Trump tells the truth.

[Mother's lament]

Compared to you, he's bloody George Washington and the cherry tree.

[JFree]

He banned travel from China about as early as anyone.

Italy starts screening all passengers from China on 26 Jan and suspends all travelers from China on 31 Jan. First confirmed case in Italy 31 Jan - two Chinese tourists who had arrived on 23 Jan

US suspends flights and quarantines all travelers from China on 31 Jan. First confirmed case in US 21 Jan (of a 35yo American who returned to the US on Jan 15 - even before the China lockdown).

Thank GOD we stopped testing in the US until a week or so ago. Including of corpses who died of 'pneumonia' or 'influenza'. And that the virus knows it's a fake foreigner from a shithole country here. Otherwise who knows we might be in about the same place re the underlying epidemic as Italy is. What we don't know can never hurt us.

[Bearded Spock]

Well for starters Tony thanks to Trumps travel ban on visitors from China -- a move that was roundly criticized at the time by the media and Democrats - the US has a significantly lower infection rate than most EU members, not to mention China, South Korea, Japan, Australia, and even your paradise, Canada.

We can argue policy all day long, but the numbers don't lie: the US has far fewer infections today than we would have had if Trump had listened to the "experts " at the WHO.

[JFree]

but the numbers don’t lie

Hahahaha. Yet another R who doesn't know shit about 'numbers don't lie'.

The reason we have fewer confirmed cases is because WE DIDN'T CONDUCT ANY TESTS between Feb 5 and Feb 20. And only conducted 2000 total tests until a week ago. Now that we have just started testing, the number of non-repatriated confirmed has risen from 57 to 761. There's about 5 more shoes to drop just to cover the known backlog of suspected/watch/etc. Before we then, maybe, start testing the UNKNOWN but suspicious backlog (eg people admitted to hospital for 'influenza-like-illness', people admitted to ICU for any reason). We are not even remotely near to testing actual spread since that's gonna require a decision about who pays for those tests and how will we get a local reasonably-random sample (as opposed to just the usual hypochrondriacs looking for a test that's free).

But no worries. I'm sure long before we get to that stage, we will stop counting or stop publicizing the counts. Because those folks report to Donald Do I want to bring all those people off? People would like me to do it. I would rather have them stay on, personally. I don't need to have the numbers double because of one ship that wasn't our fault Trump.

Who is apparently making medical/quarantine decisions (in this case the American cruise ship that loaded in America and full of Americans that is in American waters) based on whether the numbers make him look good or bad. Thank GOD numbers don't lie.

[Ken Shultz]

The last exodus of commenters happened in the wake of the 2016 election, and I'd expect it to get worse around here as November approaches this time, as well. The dream of getting people to stop voting for candidates like Trump and the Republicans who support them may be why some of them went into journalism. It might be more than what they do. It might be who they are as people. It's their calling.

[John]

It is mostly that they are class obsessed. All they have is membership in what they percieve as the "elite class". They don't make much money. They are not experts in anything. All someone who writes for a publication like reason has is the status that comes from being in the class of people who does such things.

Trump is a direct assault on the wisdom of the class which the reason writers see themselves as being members. To be honest about Trump is to admit that the Washington establishment is wrong. And to do that is to be kicked out of that establishment. And since membership in it is all they have, they can't do that.

[Ken Shultz]

Whatever else the chattering class membership card entails, it also seems to bestow an imaginary sense of authority.

Soave once wrote a piece about free speech that was virtually indistinguishable from a piece against free speech. I asked in comments how we could tell that it was a pro-libertarian piece, and he replied in comments that we could tell from the masthead.

That's not the way libertarians think. We're the people who are least susceptible to appeals to authority. We tear our own icons, like Ayn Rand, to shreds. There can be no elitism in libertarianism proper, and there certainly isn't a class of libertarians with greater authority than the validity of the arguments they make for freedom.

Like I always say, there are journalists who write about cars without being cars themselves. I saw Matt Welch once write something to the effect that he approaches libertarianism from a journalistic perspective. I think the latest crop of staff are like that--only much more so. They're writing about wine for oenophiles, but they may think oenophiles are picky, stupid, and need them to tell us what's good and what isn't. It just doesn't work that way.

[John]

Back in the days when your readers couldn't comment and there were a limited number of choices, they could get away with it. The thing the internet did is that it gave a platform to actual professionals and knowledgeable people in fields that didn't have one before. Most people who know something are too busy out doing it to be bothered with or have the time to write about it professionally. The internet changed that. And it made membership in the journalist class and access to a publication as a platform much less important.

Rather than see the value of that and embraced the knowledge made available to them, journalists have just gotten more defensive and contemptuous of their audience. And that hasn't been a good look for them.

[Fats of Fury]

Unfortunately that's why most news and opinion sites have dropped their user comments. Democracy Dies in Elitism.

[John]

OR moderate the hell out of them. The comment sections mostly served to show how valid the Gell Man affect is.

[John]

I just saw the DeRugy article on the economy. That thing is apalling. She informs us that thinking that cutting taxes will help the economy is just "magical thinking". If you think allowing people to keep more of their own money and spend it how they choose is not more efficient and better for the economy than the government spending it, then how are you a libertarian? You are not. DeRugy is just a fucking hack. She no more believes in the free market and freedom than a leftist. She just can't stand the idea of ordinary people making decisions for themselves and having control over their lives and money. Thinking that is going to lead to prosperity is just "magical thinking" in her eyes.

Every member of the reason staff manages to say something appalling and offensive these days.

[blardo]

The "magical thinking" was in reference to some dramatic predictions about the success of Trump's tax cuts, like 3 to 6 percent annual economic growth and a $4,000 increase in average household incomes. Where did she say that tax cuts don't help the economy?

[BigT]

John is over-reacting a bit.

[John]

The entire article does nothing but downplay the economy and belittle the effects of cutting taxes. And while she didn't say in so many words it didn't help, she effectively did by claiming that the deficit has a bigger negative effect than tax cuts do positive of cutting taxes. The tone of the entire article was how badly it chaps her skinny French ass that Trump allowed despicable Americans to keep more of their own money. You would think she would be happy about his cutting taxes. Instead, she is of course angry about it and out to lie and obfuscate to show he shouldn't have done it.

[markm23]

When the government cuts taxes but not spending, it must borrow. That means it is competing with businesses for investment money; that will often cause a factory to cancel expansion plans, an entrepreneur to cancel a new product launch, or a cook to drop her plan to open a restaurant. That is not as bad for the economy as taxation (which directly removes money from investors, businesses, and/or consumers), but it's still a brake on the economy. To _really_ help the economy, eliminate entire bureaus and cut the budget, then cut taxes without running a larger deficit.

From a libertarian or economic perspective, the best I can say for Trump is that he's not as bad as the Democrats or the Establishment Republicans - but that's saying quite a lot. He has pruned back some regulations, and opposed most spending increases, but is inconsistent on this and most other points. On a scale of 1 to 10, that makes him a 3 in a city full of 1's.

[Ken Shultz]

I mentioned this last night, but it's worth mentioning again--what the Democrats say about Trump and the coronavirus over the coming weeks is likely to look a lot like what the left said about Reagan in the aftermath of the AIDS virus.

Here's a typical example:

“Ronald Reagan has a lot to account for: the early AIDS epidemic unleashed more stigmatization of gay men than any other event in the history of gay life in America, and Ronald Reagan presided as president over the first seven years of that slaughter.”

“Ronald Reagan Presided Over 89,343 Deaths to AIDS and Did Nothing”

https://lithub.com/ronald-reagan-presided-over-89343-deaths-to-aids-and-did-nothing/

Another example could be found in the lyrics of NIN's "Head like a Hole".

No, there wouldn't have been a cure for the AIDS virus if Reagan had done something differently, and the disease almost certainly would have done what it did regardless of whatever people imagine Ronald Reagan should have done to stop it.

Watch what happens. They'll blame Trump for the coronavirus in the same way--as sure as the sun rises tomorrow. They'll blame him for everything he does and they'll blame him for everything he didn't do. Depending on how bad it gets and how long it lasts, they may try to make the election a referendum on Trump's handling of the coronavirus. They'll use it to push for Medicare for All.

What else are they going to do? Sell the American people on social justice warriors, the Green New Deal, and the awesome leadership skills of Joe Biden?

[Tony]

Missing from your typical wall of text whine fest is an acknowledgment, or even assessment, of Reagan's and Trump's actual complicity in the exacerbation of the problems described.

You're just whining about Democrats. It's sad. Sad baby orange fat man.

[Ken Shultz]

"Missing from your typical wall of text whine fest is an acknowledgment, or even assessment, of Reagan’s and Trump’s actual complicity in the exacerbation of the problems described."

Putting Reagan aside for the moment, what exactly has President Trump done to be "complicit in the exacerbation" of the coronavirus?

[Tony]

He's convinced a certain not-insignificant portion of the country that it's a Democratic hoax. Is that helpful? How helpful is it?

His government's response has been somewhat less than adequate, apart from his mentally ill rambling, if you ask any expert.

Of course the real issue between us is that you actually care more about Trump's poll numbers than solving the problem. That's all you're actually giving a shit about. You people are in the stupidest cult ever to exist.

[Ken Shultz]

You just don't like the way he says things? Again, you can't identify one way in which he should have used his presidential powers differently.

Weak sauce.

[Tony]

He should lie a lot less. He's been lying. That's the problem. It's the lies.

[Ken Shultz]

Again. Nothing.

You have no criticism of Trump for anything he's actually done, just the way he says things--but yet you want us to blame him.

That's fucking psychotic.

[Tony]

The way he says things is by lying. That used to be considered a bad thing by humans. But now since Trump does it, it's cool. Also, cheating on your wife with porn stars. No big thing. Also, living an entire career of graft and sleaze.

You're the one who has to live with this. Don't feel sorry for me.

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

"The way he says things is by lying. That used to be considered a bad thing by humans"

The DJIA has erased all of its gains during his presidency thanks to this crisis.”

” The Dow closed at 19,827.25 on Inauguration Day, Jan. 20, 2017,”

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/23/heres-how-much-the-stock-market-is-still-up-since-donald-trump-took-office.html

Lolololiliar

[Geraje Guzba]

Fuck off, Jeff.

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

When did that become a problem for you? Legitimately curious.

[NashTiger]

You should lie a lot less. You keep lying about what Trump said. STFU and GTFO

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

"He’s convinced a certain not-insignificant portion of the country that it’s a Democratic hoax"

Wouldn't that actually be the media that misreported that's fault?

[John]

His government’s response has been somewhat less than adequate, apart from his mentally ill rambling, if you ask any expert.

Don't you ever get tired of lying Tony? All you do is lie. A lot of it is your ignorance. You are a profoundly ignorant and narrow minded person. But, the rest of it is because you love to lie. There is no lie you won't tell if you think it furthers your sick fucking politics.

Trump administration took "aggressive measures like barring entry to non-Americans who were recently in China and advising Americans not to go to China or South Korea," and that this strategy worked, despite the fact that the World Health Organization officially opposes travel and trade restrictions, and "reiterated that even as it declared the epidemic a global emergency on Jan. 30."

http://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/28/sunday-review/coronavirus-quarantine.html

[Tony]

I genuinely don't know whether Trump's actions have only had marginally negative effects on the spread of the virus or major effects. Neither do you. It's kind of its own problem. But he could have chosen not to be president and taken on the responsibility that comes with it, and however much you dig for something positive to say about him, since that appears to be your only concern, I'm still not voting for him.

[Ken Shultz]

"I genuinely don’t know whether Trump’s actions have only had marginally negative effects on the spread of the virus or major effects. Neither do you. It’s kind of its own problem. But he could have chosen not to be president and taken on the responsibility that comes with it"

The power of the president to magically stop viruses from springing up elsewhere in the world and making their way to the United States is a power that only exists in your fevered mind.

Imagining that the president responsible for everything that happens (good and bad) is the first step in creating a totalitarian society. Libertarians, on the other hand, are very clear that there are things the president both should not and cannot do.

[Cyto]

Don't kick him on this one. He just admitted defeat. He said he doesn't know and doesn't care whether Trump did the right thing. His only motivation is beating Trump. IOW, he said "please disregard everything that came prior to this post."

Game, set, match.

Take the win and be done with it.

[Geraje Guzba]

//I genuinely don’t know whether Trump’s actions have only had marginally negative effects on the spread of the virus or major effects. //

Then shut the fuck up and stop pontificating.

[Troglodyte Rex]

I’m still not voting for him.

Well bully for you! I'm sure more someone will cancel out your vote.

[Sevo]

"...He’s convinced a certain not-insignificant portion of the country that it’s a Democratic hoax..."
Lie.

"...His government’s response has been somewhat less than adequate..."
Opinion from fucking lefty ignoramus; NWS.

Fail, twice.

[Mother's lament]

"He’s convinced a certain not-insignificant portion of the country that it’s a Democratic hoax."

You and the DNC are the only people using or inferring the word "hoax", you dishonest sack of shit.

[Bearded Spock]

Tony I was alive during the early stages of the AIDS pandemic and no one, not even the gay community, took it seriously at first.

Authors like Randy Shilts and Laurie Garrett have documented how when public health officials wanted to shut down the bathhouses in San Francisco the gays actively fought them and kept them open. It wasn't until their friends started dying en masse that they took it seriously.

If Reagan had declared a public health emergency in 1981 the LGBTQ lobby would have accused him of trying to outlaw gay sex.

[Cyto]

Exactly. I was there too. And not only did they not take it seriously... they took any suggestion that there was some sort of health crisis in the "gay community" extremely seriously.

Plus, there was still quite a bit of controversy for several years. One of the early discoverers of the HIV virus was married to the idea that AIDS was not caused by HIV. He preached that it was caused by abusing the body with drugs, etc. (probably informed by the needle-sharing angle of spread). He (and quite a few others) stuck with that narrative all the way in to the 90's.

It was my first experience with a "political disease". People literally had to check off political boxes to even talk about the virus. It was very weird.

Anyone claiming that the handling was "botched" or worse, maliciously handled is dealing in some seriously revisionist history.

[Tony]

All the same I would rather have not had a religious bigot (rather, a guy who played one on TV) in charge at the time. His failures here are widely acknowledged by history.

[Mother's lament]

This from a bug chaser.

[BigT]

The other group who had AIDS was the Haitian community. There was a lot of misinformation going around as well as a lot that was simply unknown for a long time.

[Commenter_XY]

Tony, neither POTUS Reagan nor POTUS Trump or POTUS Obama have any complicity whatsoever for Aids, SARS-Cov-2 or Ebola/H1N1. Enough already. You're smart enough to know better.

[Cyto]

The AIDS response had something else in common with other partisan narratives. Reagan's AIDS response was very much informed by gay activists and Democrat politicians demands. Saying anything about safe sex for gay men was violently opposed in the early days. Any suggestion that AIDS had anything to do with gay men was violently opposed. Then you had the Haitian thing too... so it was also racist to bring that up.

Then there's Reagan. This is 40 years ago. Saying "use a condom" is not exactly in his wheelhouse - or in the wheelhouse of any US national politician at the time.

But the retroactively decided that the opposite was true... so he was damned if he did, and then damned when he didn't.

The same goes for the "crack discrepancy" in sentencing. Black activists and prominent democrats demanded that the national government do something about the "crack epidemic". So they increased penalties, per request. Then, quite a bit later, the exact same people decided that this was racist. So they again got to have it both ways... you were racist if you were against increased penalties for crack, then you were racist if you were for them (but only if you were a republican).

Now we have this stupid trap. "Trump is an authoritarian dictator!!" to "Why hasn't Trump declared martial law!?!?"

It is all very confusing, unless you peel back what they are asking for and look at what they are actually trying to accomplish. In that case it is consistent... more power for my team. More demonization for your team. The rest is just a facade.

[Geraje Guzba]

Excellent. Well said, sir.

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

“..... got to have it both ways.”

That’s why everything is so terrible AND unfair!

Haha

[lap83]

"CPAC Attendees Mocked Coronavirus Fears. Now Some Are Self-Quarantining."

Not the same ones, but who cares? Everyone should self-quarantine, it would be the biggest libertarian moment of world history.

[Mother's lament]

And nobody mocked Coronavirus fears, anyway. ENB was lying about what the question they answered was about.

[Tony]

Do you guys ever want to talk about anything other than how much you love to SUCK TRUMP COCK all day long, every day, as long as your jaws will hold out? Isn't there something else to talk about?

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

Is it weird that as a gay man you use your sex acts as insults?

Seems like a lot of self-loathing.

[Tony]

Did I imply I thought that either you or Trump does not enjoy your constant sucking of his cock?

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

Yes actually, by continually using it as an insult.

Come on bro, I caught you and you know it.

[Tony]

Exactly who has the opinion that sucking cock is a bad thing? Lesbians?

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

You apparently do, because you keep using it as an insult.

Pretending you can't read won't make it stop.

[Tony]

It's an insult because it's Trump. It means you're a gross cheap whore.

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

You put it in capitals when you used it as an insult Tony.

Listen, it's obvious that I caught you, and even after several attempts you haven't come up with an excuse, so just own up and move on.

[Tony]

It was meant as an insult. Am I saying otherwise? Does that mean I think blowjobs are bad? Again, does anyone think blowjobs are bad?

But whatever. Apparently these little internet victories are all you have.

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

I don't which shows more of your self loathing, your using it as an insult or your desperate need to justify and minimize that you did so.

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

"internet victories"

Also, thank you for admitting I won. I really didn't expect you to agree with my observations, so I felt like I should give you credit where it's due when you actually did.

[Dillinger]

lol. tiger meet stripes.

[Ken Shultz]

The reason you write trollish shit like this is because you always get pwned with anything else.

Is there anything Biden or Sanders are saying they would have done different from Trump yet?

They're waiting for Trump to make a mistake, and I know that's hard for guys like you--because if they don't tell you what to say, all you can do is troll.

[Tony]

This is Trump's first serious crisis. He's been lucky.

The DJIA has erased all of its gains during his presidency thanks to this crisis. Is he to blame for it? Not entirely, but he takes credit every time things go up, doesn't he?

He goes to press conferences where the American people want to hear from their president some clear, hopeful, consistent message on how to deal with this global crisis.

What they get is insane rambling about TV ratings, conspiracy theories, and insistences that he knows more about microbiology than most scientists on earth because he had a smart uncle.

I'm just glad I am not in your shoes having to defend him. But, like, you could choose not to do that.

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

The DJIA has erased all of its gains during his presidency thanks to this crisis."

" The Dow closed at 19,827.25 on Inauguration Day, Jan. 20, 2017,"

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/03/23/heres-how-much-the-stock-market-is-still-up-since-donald-trump-took-office.html

Lolololiliar

[Ken Shultz]

"This is Trump’s first serious crisis."

LOL

Impeachment, the asylum seekers at the border, etc., etc. all of that must have been a dream!

"He goes to press conferences where the American people want to hear from their president some clear, hopeful, consistent message on how to deal with this global crisis.

What they get is insane rambling about TV ratings, conspiracy theories, and insistences that he knows more about microbiology than most scientists on earth because he had a smart uncle."

More nothing about policy. More nothing about what President Trump should have done differently.

More nothing of a criticism.

"Missing from your typical wall of text whine fest is an acknowledgment, or even assessment, of Reagan’s and Trump’s actual complicity in the exacerbation of the problems described.

----Tony

Ken Shultz: In what way has President Trump used his presidential powers so as to be complicit in the exacerbation of the coronavirus?

Tony: *crickets*

[Tony]

I'm delighted that the actual words that come out of President Biden's mouth will be absolutely off limits to your criticism, given the standard that you're setting now.

I know that experts are saying that the US is woefully behind on its response to this crisis relative to other countries and to where it could be with competent leadership. What do you know? That Trump could shit in his hand and throw it at a baby and you'd find some way to defend it? Is that about it?

[Brian]

Remember back when it was going to be President Warren? Those. were the days.

Anyway, enough about Trump. How did you hold up during the whole Sanders Scare? Were you successful in shepherding the democrat primary voters to the correct conclusion of democracy?

[Ron]

In what way is the U.S. behind in its response i would say the response is right on considering how low of an infection rate is in the U.S. compared to everywhere else. seems like the rest of the world should be following in the U.S. 's protocols and the only item missing so far is testing equipment which is made in china something Trump has been trying to fix long before the virus was out

[Sevo]

"...I know that experts are saying that the US is woefully behind on its response to this crisis relative to other countries and to where it could be with competent leadership..."

Everybody knows this...
Steaming pile if shit.

[Brian]

Tony:

This is Trump’s first serious crisis.

Oh, we have a serious crisis now?

As opposed to all the jokes for the past 4 years?

[I, Woodchipper]

Kamala Harris endorses Joe Biden:

maybe they can rot in prison together under one of Joe's minimum sentencing guidlelines.

[Conchfritters]

Max Von freaking Sydow passed away??? This is truly a horrible day.

RIP brewmeister Smith

[John]

That is a bummer.

[Dillinger]

Strange Brew ... the Canadian Hamlet ... long live Brewmeister Smith

[Commenter_XY]

Oh wow....I remember him from the greatest story ever told.

[loveconstitution1789]

No way, eh!

[BearOdinson]

Ming the Merciless is dead??????

"Pitiful Earthlings. Hurling your bodies out into the void without the slightest inkling of how or what is out there. If you had any understanding of the true nature of the universe, you would cower from it in terror!"

[Tony]

Will you guys start criticizing Trump when he starts having the US federal government inject cash into certain specific industries to prop them up during the crisis? That is decidedly unlibertarian, is it not?

[Dillinger]

if I criticize T will you stop whining about it?

[$parcasmic, a love connection]

Trump's fake tan is atrocious.

There, Tony can finally die.

[Sevo]

He's a loud-mouth, too.

[Dillinger]

his backhand needs work.

[BigT]

His hairpiece is unnatural and during the latest townhall on FOX it was slipping, rather noticeably.

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

I suspect he'll keep using the Reason comments section to write homoerotic fanfiction about the Orange Man.

[Brian]

It's decidedly unlibertarian, but completely democrat.

Remember: Bin Laden is dead. GM is alive. And that was good thing.

One would think the only consistency to be found is people's desire for their political opponents to bite off a shitty economy without invoking huge government stimulus as a counter-measure.

Which really means that the only hypocrites are democrats and socialists.

[Tony]

I'm 100% certain that there will be an equal amount of Trump cocksucking here even after he initiates the massively socialist plan he just announced. You guys are supposed to be that on principle, but you guys don't do the "principles vs. principals" baby talk much anymore, do you? Not since we got such a credible, intelligent, charming guy in charge.

Republicans are gonna try to solve a pandemic with a tax cut. It's pretty much self-parody.

[Commenter_XY]

Will you guys start criticizing Trump when he starts having the US federal government inject cash into certain specific industries to prop them up during the crisis? That is decidedly unlibertarian, is it not?

Answers: Yes, and probably yes.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

How to get a libertarian to worry about coronavirus: Tell them Trump isn't worried about it.

[Weigel's Cock Ring]

Real libertarians, no. Professional Fake Libertarians, yes.

If Trump announced today that he was putting a temporary moratorium on all international travel into and out of the United States until the situation was better contained, Welchie Boy, Lizzie the Lezzie, and the entire gang of Reason gaslighters would be foaming at the mouth raging about what an overreacting tyrannical dictator he is. He’s going to get ripped around here for anything and everything he does do or doesn’t do.

[Ken Shultz]

"ROME—As least six inmates have died and at least 50 others have escaped from an Italian prison in the southern region of Puglia on Monday amid extensive rioting in 27 prisons across the country after visitation rights were curtailed due to the rapid spread of the novel coronavirus.

Riots broke out Sunday afternoon in half a dozen prisons after the Italian government enacted a draconian decree that has locked down 16 million people and curtailed movement across the entire country to try to contain the spread of COVID-19. By Monday, the riots had spread to nearly 30 detention facilities."

What is President Trump doing about this?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/six-inmates-dead-scores-escape-as-prisoners-riot-across-italy-after-visitor-restrictions-over-coronavirus

[Ken Shultz]

Or why isn't Trump doing anything about this?

If Bernie or Biden were president, this wouldn't be a problem!

[BigT]

I’m sure Pope Frankie is praying up a storm.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Reagan forbade his surgeon general from even acknowledging the existence of HIV publicly for years. You are ignoring his actual culpability. No one has ever suggested we would have found a cure, but for Reagan.

[Sevo]

Yeah, remember Koop with a gag over his mouth?
Bullshit:

"...In dealing with AIDS, Reagan did what he so often did well—he appointed people who shared his political convictions but could be relied on to make sound decisions based on apolitical facts and solid science.
[...]
To begin with, Reagan appointed Dr. C. Everett Koop as surgeon general. When Koop addressed the public about AIDS, he declared: “This is a battle against the disease, not our fellow Americans.”..."
https://www.city-journal.org/html/ronald-reagans-quiet-war-aids-14783.html

[De Oppresso Liber]

When was Koop allowed to make that speach? 1987. 6 years after the outbreak was recognized and named. All silence before that.

https://www.libertarianism.org/everything-wrong-presidents/everything-wrong-reagan-administration

I'm right. Reagan prevented his surgeon general from speaking publicly about aids, as Reagan was also silent on the matter. Those sure were some pretty words though, 6 years too late, but still.

[Sevo]

"I’m right."
You're a lying piece of shit.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Point to the lie, Sevo. Should be easy.

[BigT]

You are suggesting Reagan and Koop should have been promoting panic. Very, very little was known about AIDS HIV for a long time. Saying nothing is better than creating ignorant panic, as the Donkeys and MSM are doing now.

[De Oppresso Liber]

6 years of silence or promote panic. Those are the only options? I have a feeling you are not being totally honest here.

The point isn't to win. It's to acknowledge reality.

[Ron]

Now that is Fake news

[Fats of Fury]

When Reagan gave you aids did he eat your homework too?

[Ken Shultz]

If you say something bad about Reagan, it's always true in the general sense that anything that makes people think badly of Reagan should be true.

It works the same way with Trump. These days, we refer to people who think that way as having Trump Derangement Syndrome.

Back in Reagan's day, people who thought anything bad that was said about him must have been true because it was bad--we mostly just thought of them as "Moonies" because that's the way Moonies think--something is true or not relative to whether you like the person it's being said about, isn't that what being a Moonie is all about? It's a good thing you came across progressivism first, otherwise you might be wandering around the airport asking people for donations to the Happiness Church of Wackadoodle.

[De Oppresso Liber]

When did Reagan first even utter the word HIV publicly?

Revisionist history usually takes a little longer than this. You conspiratorians are accelerating.

https://www.libertarianism.org/everything-wrong-presidents/everything-wrong-reagan-administration

[Bruno Sammartino]

It's been fun watching you devolve from trying to be taken seriously to just downright trolling and regurgitating Mother Jones conspiracy theories, cytotoxic.

[De Oppresso Liber]

Reagan trying to ignore HIV away for 6 years didn't happen now? Which reality am I in? Which are you in?

>It took Reagan until 1985 to speak publicly about AIDS and the president did not give a major address on the subject until 1987 when he called on the American people to show “urgency, not panic … compassion, not blame … and understanding, not ignorance.” Reagan asserted the importance “that America not reject those who [had] the disease, but care for them with dignity and kindness.” Reagan concluded his remarks by reminding the American people, “this is a battle against a disease, not against our fellow Americans.”[13] Although Reagan’s sentiment was laudable, the fact that the president did not use the bully pulpit of the presidency to address the seriousness of the AIDS epidemic sooner speaks to the culture of homophobia that existed in the 1980s and to the fact that Reagan was constrained by his domestic coalition.

https://www.libertarianism.org/everything-wrong-presidents/everything-wrong-reagan-administration

[Sevo]

"Reagan trying to ignore HIV away for 6 years didn’t happen now?"

Need help with those goal posts?
They look heavy, you lying piece of shit.

[De Oppresso Liber]

what was the original goalpost?

[EISTAU Gree-Vance]

Everything is so terrible and unfair.

[BigT]

That link really supports that Reagan was an unusually great President.

[De Oppresso Liber]

...who spent 6 years mostly silent on HIV while thousands died.

[BigT]

Wrong, Reagan didn’t spread false info as so many others did. I remember those years very well, and there were many false stories, as they tried to work out what caused AIDS, including from politicians.

[Colossal Douchebag]

Happiness Church of Wackadoodle

Good band name

[Bruno Sammartino]

HURRY UP AND PANIC! THERE'S A VIRUS CAUSING FEWER DEATHS THAN A TYPICAL FLU SEASON! FREE MINDS AND FREE MARKETS BABY!!!!!!! LIBERTARIANS FOR MINDLESS PANIC!!!!!!!!!!! WOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

[jdd6y]

When did reason turn into trump man bad?

Doesn't everyone "self-quarantine" when they think they are sick/contagious? Only dicks go to work with the flu or a ballgame. And yes, some people are selfish.

I don't see this as proof of anything other than someone found out they have what is likely a very, very minor condition, and did the responsible thing in the face of ridiculous political fear-mongering and hysteria.

[Sevo]

I'm sure others share my admiration for the self-righteous twits who show up at the office hacking and sneezing, since they are so indispensable, they absolutely MUST infect everybody else rather than STAY HOME, you idiot!

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

Some paid leave policies encourage this behavior in a way. My company doesn't have separate vacation time and sick time, it's all just lumped into one big pool to spend as you see fit. This means people view the entire pool as vacation time, so taking a day off because you're sick shortens your vacation.

They're still selfish assholes for coming in to work sick, but it's also kind of a "don't hate the player, hate the game" situation.

[Enjoy Every Sandwich]

My company has separate sick time, but it's only 10 days. That usually works out all right for me, but people with young children have a rougher time making that last for an entire year.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

By the way, the Italian Prime Minister has "locked down millions" in an attempt to contain the "seasonal flu"

The number of coronavirus cases jumped 25% in a 24-hour period to 7,375, while deaths climbed 57% to 366 deaths. It was the largest daily increase for both readings since the contagion came to light on Feb. 21.

[Fats of Fury]

Valerie Plame, Deep Throat of the Deep State, comes up snake eyes in NM (D) primary, despite raising. the most money from outside the state.

[loveconstitution1789]

I didn't see unreason cover the Alabama US Senate Primary.

Tommy Tuberville (R) 33.4% 237,821 votes
Jeff Sessions (R) 31.6% 224,985 votes

[Curly4]

Self-Quarantining is a very logical move by any attendee of the CPAC such as Senator Cruz has chosen to do.

[Azathoth!!]

Remember when we weren't supposed to panic about Ebola?

You know, ebola, the disease that makes you rot from the inside out.

But we ARE supposed to panicbe concerned about COVID-19, the disease that acts like the common cold.

Have I got that right?

[Fat Mike's Drug Habit]

The panic causes more issues than the disease itself.

It is highly contagious, way moreso than the flu, so more people are going to get it than the average cold or flu. Because the media has whipped everyone into a frenzy about it, those people are going to go to the hospital rather than just rest for a few days like they normally would. That's going to cause issues for the hospitals.

If we as a species had just treated it like the flu, we'd have been fine. We'd just accept more people are going to get it this year than normal, and we'd all get on with our lives. But we have to have something to panic about, so we give it a scary name and convince everyone they're gonna die and it's going to be worse than if we had just done nothing at all.

[BigT]

The panic is highly contagious.

[EscherEnigma]

Remember when we weren’t supposed to panic about Ebola?

Sure.

Remember how then-citizen-Trump spent months trying to get people to panic about Ebola, then promptly shut-up about it after the election?

[De Oppresso Liber]

He is a germophobe, after all.

[StoptheBS]

37,000 deaths per year on average in the U.S. alone for the flu. 22 deaths so far for the Wuhan virus. The media-hyped panic IS pathetic, and the vast majority of leftists cheer it on.

[ValVerde1867]

It would be most excellent if the entire Congress and most of the elite DC swamp keepers were to sequester themselves in quarantine...FOREVER. They never serve the country, only themselves and we can do much better without the current form of government that has become untenable with its rampant corruption and mistreatment of its citizens.

[EWM]

Since the "government" is all about protecting us, congress needs to get their butts in gear and pass a law that makes the Coronavirus illegal.

[PG23COLO]

Where did Reason find Elizabeth Nolan Brown? It is not up to the government to protect us from illness - I looked it up in the Constitution and healthcare is not a responsibility of the government. Attitudes like that of Brown are what takes us down the road to serfdom. See a problem, scare people, promise a government solution. That path leads to socialism and fascism.
Coronavirus is another illness but so far, it has been far less deadly than seasonal flu, or falling down stairs, or traffic accidents, or suicides, or liver failure, or heart disease, etc.
4000 deaths from coronavirus worldwide (if reports can be believed) so far, 26 in the U.S. During that same period, an estimated 4000 - 8000 people in the US have died from the seasonal flu, perhaps another 4000 have died from traffic accidents. Tens of millions of people in the U.S. will get the flu this season. There are 624 confirmed cases of coronavirus in the U.S. People cope with the flu without emergency or other government help, they cope with traffic accidents, other health issues, suicides, etc. We don't ban driving to prevent accidents, make stairs illegal to prevent deaths from falls on stairs, prohibit drinking to protect us from liver damage, ban smoking, ban going to work or school because we might get exposed to the flu or other illness. We don't cry for government help. We are a self-reliant people and we will retain that attitude because we value our lives and liberties. We don't need Donald Trump to protect us, or any Congress-creatures, or the CDC.

[Earth Skeptic]

Actually, there are plenty of people working to ban many of those life-threatening activities, and others. If there really is any generational change in US human character, it is the amplified sense of fragility of people, especially those under 30. Quips about snowflakes aside, we have a new cohort that has been taught to see everything, from the natural environment to the national government to their own psyche as extremely delicate and therefore always in crisis.

Media and politicians do not help.

[loveconstitution1789]

This hysteria is the latest in a string of failed strategies by Lefty media to get rid of Trump. As I said before, the Democrat Party and its Propaganda machine are super desperate and it shows.

[Tony]

You can be a libertarian and criticize a Republican.

[JustinSBaker]

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[JDS1]

God's wrath. I hope they all fucking die. Finally some good news in all of this.

[NOYB2]

CPAC Attendees Mocked Coronavirus Fears. Now Some Are Self-Quarantining.

No contradiction there. The former is a rational response. The latter is the proper political response.

I know, ENB, logic is hard for you, but do try at least to think things through before you write.