Super Tuesday

On Super Tuesday, Dems Pick Between a Biden Restoration and a Sanders Revolution. Both Are a Disaster for Liberty.

Deciding which Democratic front-runner is the lesser of two evils is not easy.


Today's Super Tuesday contests present Democratic primary voters with a stark choice between the Democratic Party of old, represented by former Vice President Joe Biden, and a radical vision of what the party could be, offered by Sen. Bernie Sanders (I–Vt.). Neither is good news for liberty.

Sanders heads into Super Tuesday as the presumptive frontrunner, having come in first or second place in every primary and caucus held so far, and leading the delegate count by a slim margin.

Biden's 30-point blowout in South Carolina on Saturday, meanwhile, has breathed fresh life into his once-flagging campaign, pushing him to first place in the popular vote count, and convincing his moderate rivals Pete Buttigieg and Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D–Minn.) to drop out and endorse him.

Of the 14 states that vote today, Sanders leads in California (which awards 415 of the 1,357 delegates up for grabs) and his home state of Vermont. FiveThirtyEight has Biden the heavy favorite in North Carolina, Virginia, and Alabama.

Still holding out hopes of winning a few delegates are Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D–Mass.) and former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg. Rep. Tulsi Gabbard (D–Hawaii) is also still in the running.

Effectively, we're down to a two-person race. Or as New York Times columnist David Leonhardt put it, it's "Bernie or Biden. Period."

The candidates offer Democratic-leaning voters a clear choice: Restore the Democratic Party or revolutionize it.

Biden is the self-styled candidate of restoration. His oft-repeated line is that he is running to "restore the soul of this country" after the damaging aberration that has been the presidency of Donald Trump. His campaign literature is peppered with references to the successes of the "Obama-Biden" administration, an implicit promise that a Biden presidency would be a return to the Democratic-led normalcy of the pre-2016 word.

On policy, the former vice president isn't above proposing expensive new initiatives. Yet, when making the case for his candidacy, he talks almost exclusively about what he's already done.

Take his answer in the last CBS debate, when asked why voters should trust him to take on the issue of mass shootings. "Because I am the only one that's ever got it done nationally. I've beat the NRA twice. I've got assault weapons banned. I got magazines that could hold more than 10 rounds, I got them eliminated," said Biden.

He's taken the same tack on healthcare. After his opposition to Medicare for All surfaced prominently in the first Democratic debate, Biden released a video in which he told voters, "I understand the appeal of Medicare for All. But folks supporting it should be clear. It means getting rid of Obamacare, and I'm not for that."

There's nary an issue on which Biden doesn't pitch his presidency as a return to the best parts of a past he helped create.

That is in complete contrast with Sanders. His campaign is predicated on the idea of overthrowing a long-outdated status quo. The Vermont independent proudly wears the label of "democratic socialist." He talks openly of taking on the Democratic establishment, right alongside Republicans.

The pre-Trump past that Biden likes to cast in positive terms is, to Sanders, just decade after decade of wage stagnation for the working class. Low unemployment and GDP growth are, to Sanders, just more indicators that the rich are getting richer.

"The economy is doing really great for people like Mr. Bloomberg and other billionaires," said Sanders at last Tuesday's debate, when asked if his message of radical change could succeed during good economic times. "In the last three years," Sanders said, "billionaires in this country saw an $850 billion increase in their wealth. But you know what? For the ordinary American, things are not so good."

Sanders' policy proposals are radical. He wants a Green New Deal. He wants national rent control. He wants a federal jobs guarantee and protectionist tariffs. He wants to raise middle-class taxes to pay for a $32 trillion health care plan that also bans private insurance.

When asked how he'll get any of this ambitious agenda passed, Sanders answer is that he'll mobilize a flood of new voters who're chomping at the bit for real, socialist change. A New York Times article from last week quotes Sanders on the campaign trail promising he can "bring millions of people into the political process who normally do not vote."

The differences between Biden and Sanders couldn't be more apparent. For libertarians, however, it's a hard call determining which is the lesser of two evils.

For each of Sanders' budget-busting, property rights-destroying proposals, there's another one that reveals a genuine appreciation for civil liberties. He's in favor of radical criminal justice reform and of bringing the troops home. His immigration plan is pretty good, past statements about wage suppression and billionaire conspiracies notwithstanding. While Biden is still flip-flopping on marijuana, Sanders is promising to legalize pot on day one by executive order.

Biden's aversion to anything even remotely radical means the country would likely be safe from socialism with him in the White House. But his absence of a radical vision for the future is undercut by a past record that's been none too good for liberty.

The long-serving Delaware senator helped pass major federal tough on crime legislation that contributed to mass incarceration. He supported the Iraq war and the PATRIOT Act. He's a drug warrior and a gun grabber. Sanders' Medicare for All plan is currently just a promise. Biden helped give us Obamacare, which remains the law of the land.

As Reason's Eric Boehm has documented, Biden's career "is one long lesson about the dangers of bipartisan consensus politics."

Today, Democratic voters will choose between these two visions. Unfortunately, neither one leaves much room for limited government.

NEXT: Cops Arrested and Handcuffed a 10-Year-Old Boy for Pointing a Toy Gun at a Car

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  1. Any Democrat in the race is going to be a disaster for Liberty. Trump II will be a disaster for Liberty. Basically, 2020 will be a disaster for Liberty. Our only hope is Bill Weld, and then only if he picks Gary Johnson as a running mate.

    I’m going to cocoon myself until 2024.

    1. William Weld? Yes, I know the LP whored themselves out for him. Did you look at what he actually did, the last time anyone entrusted him to run anything? Did those actions strike you as a guy who thinks Liberty is important at all?

      1. Which is why I stipulated that it depends on his running mate. By himself he’s a total nobody that’s better than either of the other candidates simply by being a total nobody. But with a decent running mate he might actually rise to the level of realizing that there’s a swamp to be drained.

        1. Which is why I stipulated that it depends on his running mate.

          I’m not sure I agree that any VP will do much to thwart the lesser angels of a President.

          1. As pesto archangels?

            1. ‘As opposed to’. Fuck, I’m just as bad.

              1. For a good fuck you can check Sex in Innsbruck

      2. Even Bill Weld would be more tolerant of individuality than Trump or any Dem. It’s like the difference between Coronavirus and flu.

        1. You’re being sarcastic I hope. Name one thing that Weld is for that screams individualism?

          1. Baking cakes.

            1. JesseAz claims to be against raising taxes yet supports raising tariffs aka taxes. Lol.

            2. JesseAz You were also wrong when you said every budget sent to Trump was veto proof. There was a shutdown because a budget couldn’t be passed, so Trump made a deal WITH THE DEMS for more spending to get it passed over the objections of Republicans. Lol.

              1. Still no citations with this sock troll.

            3. JesseAz always avoids me whenever I bring up tariffs.

    2. Can you disambiguate for us?

      You meant #7, didn’t you?

    3. “…Trump II will be a disaster for Liberty…”

      Seek help. You NEED it.

      1. Well he’ll be a disaster for the budget; that’s for sure.

        1. He doesn’t control the budget. Congress does. He will not be a “disaster” for their budget because he will sign it.

          1. If he signs it, he agrees with it. Also he signed the tax cuts when he should have known spending wouldn’t be cut. That’s all on him.

      2. Raising tariffs is bad for economic liberty.

    4. As I’ve said many times before and as a former Masshole: Weld is a joke, period. If he is the best the LP can do, it’s time to think about ending it and starting from scratch to build a new limited government political party.

      1. Or they could just move to Mexico. Drugs, for all intents and purpose, are legit and Open Borders are a winning issue there provided it’s a one way exit.

    5. “Our only hope is Bill Weld”

      This might be the stupidest thing any human being has ever said.
      Remind whoever’s in charge of your cocoon to keep you in it. Permanently.

    6. help me Obi-Weld. you’re my only hope.

    7. Bill Weld? That’s hilarious.

      Why not Hornberger? Or Kevin Armstrong? Or, hell, even Vermin fucking Supreme? Any of those are more plausibly liberty-focused than Bill Weld.

  2. From a Koch / Reason libertarian perspective, the most fundamental liberty is the right of anybody on the planet to immigrate to the US at any time. Biden and Sanders would be far better than Orange Hitler on our #1 issue.


    1. You’re consistent.

      1. Of course; The left’s biggest quality is repeating a lie so many times the general public starts to think it’s true.

    2. And that is, apparently, what every candidate for the LP’s nomination is running on. Time for a new name: Quixotic Libertarian Party.

    3. So how much is Koch down this month? Inquiring minds want to know. 🙂

  3. WSJ – Black voters in rural Georgia

    The Democrat Party is in BIG FUCKING TROUBLE.

    1. LOL

      Literally all my friends of color despise Drumpf. Black and brown bodies will vote in historic numbers this November and contribute to #BlueWave2020.

      1. Be very careful the path you chose and for what reason (be wise).. It sounds like a whole lot of “entitle induced” racist gangster hatred to me. Evil always ends up killing itself in the end.

      2. >>Black and brown

        creepy that (D) started saying this weeks ago and nobody stopped it

        1. It’s been going on over a year now, but definitely amped up lately.

          And yes, it’s very creepy.

      3. In Cook County Illinois black and brown bodies vote all the time. They get registered at the morgue.

  4. Biden is the douche and Sanders is the turd sandwich.

    1. And Trump is diarrhea.

  5. I wouldn’t count out Il Bloomie yet. He’s going to pull 15 in just about every Super Tuesday state, even if it’s unlikely he wins any of them. He’ll likely prevent Bernie or Biden from being able to run away and hide.

    Warren should be toast after this though. Which won’t help the Democrats, as I think a majority of her supporters would vote for Bernie.

    1. Warren is gonna stay in, hoping Bernie has another heart atttack.

      1. Warren is going to come in far enough behind Bernie that she’s going to drop out and tell all her followers to join him. The two of them together should have enough to keep just ahead of the champion of the rest of the party, which will apparently be Biden.

    2. Yea, 2 weeks ago Bloomberg was the anti-Bernie (really, establishment alternative) champion.
      Biden wins one state for the first time in his life and suddenly he’s unchallenge-able?
      Don’t think so

  6. Meanwhile Trump is the most effectively libertarian president in 30 years and all Reason does is complain about him for Washington cocktail party brownie points.

    1. To the extent that Trump took any position that could be considered Libertarian, it was because someone in his Administration did it for him.
      He is no libertarian. If he had his way, it would be an isolationist State with no contact with the rest of the globe, especially the Brown people. And, within the US, there would be rule by one man with only his ill-informed opinion counting for anything.
      The world still has its way on intruding on his delusions. Viruses know no borders.

      1. He keeps cutting taxes and regulations like a libertarian would. He just signed a peace deal to get us closer to the end of the 20 year war in Afghanistan.

        Your lame mind-reading BS is contrary to the actual record of what he has actually done in office.

        1. Are libertarians for running up the debt and spending more on defense? Are libertarians for trade wars? Give me a break.

          1. Trump also just insisted on FISA reform, like a libertarian might.

            And he spent the last 3 years appointing constitution-preserving judges, like a libertarian might do.

            Given the provocation to start a war with Iran, Trump declined to.

            No one is perfect, but Trump is much more libertarian than Obama, Bush, Bush, Clinton, Carter, Ford, Nixon, Johnson, and FDR.

        2. Why doesn’t Trump just LEAVE AFGHANISTAN? You know, like today?

          1. Like on Trumps inauguration day where it was 9:00 pm afghan time? Hahahaha.

      2. You can imagine that he REALLY WANTS TO BE BAD FOR LIBERTY IF ONLY HE COULD all you want, but the reality is he hasn’t been.

      3. So, when his administration does something bad, it’s all him. But when his administration does something good, it’s just random luck?

      4. Everything you said about what he wants is literally wrong. You could try reading his speeches some time in full instead of relying on Voxs Twitter account.

        1. Libertarians don’t support trade wars. Sorry.

          1. It would be a stroke of genius for Biden to campaign to end the trade war on day one of his presidency. That could win the votes of farmers and even some libertarians who are sick of Trump’s demented protectionist policies. Advocating for free trade and making it a campaign issue would be a brilliant move on his part.

            1. You can’t get free trade if the other country is applying tariffs on you. You could try something to force them to lower or remove their tariffs all together. But that comes with risks.

              How many tariffs did Trump apply vs just raising the amount on tariffs that already existed?

              1. Sure you can. It’s called unilateral free trade, which all true libertarians support.

                1. “It’s called unilateral free trade” — And we want foreigners to get zero-criminal, zero-standards-regulations, zero-tax BUT NOT domestic because?????? What’s really a kick in the shorts is pretending foreign trade is EXEMPT from everything while simultaneously being asked by foreigners to pay for their “trade” expenses.

                  There’s nothing “fair” about the idea of free trade – it’s just a buzz-word like free healthcare.

      5. If he’s slashing government regulations and cutting taxes, does it really matter whether he’s a genuine libertarian or a deluded psychopath? If he actually gets us out of Afghanistan too, I’ll take his insanity over what the smart set says any day.

        1. And he’s making government larger like a libertarian would. Oh wait.

          1. Who made it smaller?

            I’ll take an 8 year holiday from excessive regulation, plus peace, plus a tax cut, plus a constitution-preserving judiciary, plus FISA reform, plus Federal sentencing reform,

            You can complain about whatever other thing and never be happy. That’s your role in life.

            1. So you support us funded tax cuts that raise the deficit? Lol, okay.

              1. “Not Stealing” =/= “Giving”… But your right; The government cannot simultaneously be handing out money that doesn’t exist. Perhaps that’s why Trump has cut spending everywhere except military ( I wish he would!! ).

            2. Plus peace? We’re still in a ton of wars.

    2. +100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000

    3. Trump is an authoritarian piece of shit. WTF is libertarian about his views on the security state, which not having one is the crux of libertarianism? He’s only preseident because he can’t be emporer.

      If he’s a libertarian, then I have a harem of supermodels in my back yard.

      1. You’re talking about imaginary things he might do and what you imagine his “views” are. The rest of us don’t need to imagine. We can look at what he has actually done.

    4. Libertarian? Really? A populist who lowered some taxes and blowing a hole in the budget, spend money on a useless wall, in favor of legislating morality, supports depriving women of the rights over their body, attacks the free press, admires autocrats, seeks to utilize corruption in other countries to further his reelection, is against free trade preferring managed trade, spends money on his pet projects even though congress did not approve its expenditure, acting in ways that further the imperial presidency. His trade deal with Canada and Mexico are slight improvements, but creates more regulatory intrusion in how much is US product and not, etc. His deal with the Taliban is similar to Nixon’s deal with the Viet Cong and he needs something to run on. Libertarian? No way. He’s just one side of the populist coin with Bernie on the other side. And of course there is habit of lying to the public, never admitting he is wrong, making fun of the handicapped, believing that men like him can get away with forcing sexual contact, etc. He’s a cad in addition to not being a libertarian.

  7. I find it it hard to believe that someone who wants to nationalize a significant fraction of the economy and subject vast swaths of our lives to federal bureaucracy would actually have any fondness for “civil liberties.”

    1. Don’t let them dupe you – their “fondness” has about as much depth as a single melted snowflake.

      The Top-3 Completely Obvious Contradiction’s of the Democratic Platform
      1) Champion Democracy ([WE]majority mob rules) as being for the little-guy/minority.
      2) Champion Equality while lobbying to legislate based on color, sex, religion and wealth-class.
      3) Champion Social Justice while lobbying to STEAL from Peter to pay Paul.

      1. Right, and the only way to actually achieve those goals is authoritarianism. You can’t champion privacy, for instance–how else will you make sure people pay up?

  8. You say you want a revolution? Well, you know…

  9. Look on the bright side-at least Bloomberg appears to be done for

    1. I just saw one of his TV ads that contained this gem: “Mike’s Plan: Universal Health Care”. Sheesh, you’d think a guy who’ll “Get ‘er Done” — or whatever TF his slogan is — would know the difference between a plan and a (one supposes) vision.

      1. The LP candidates certainly don’t.

      2. A Man, a Plan, Pander Bear

  10. “The economy is doing really great for people like Mr. Bloomberg and other billionaires,” said Sanders at last Tuesday’s debate, when asked if his message of radical change could succeed during good economic times.

    “Of course, I ain’t doin’ too bad neither. *** flashes toothy grin ***”

  11. This article is way too long for what boils down to “I don’t like Democrats”. I mean seriously, there hasn’t been a Democrat candidate that y’all wouldn’t characterize as “a disaster for liberty”. The Dems could resurrect Saint Reagan, and if he rand with a “-D” after his name y’all would say the same thing.

    1. What, you think they’d endorse any Republican as good for liberty, other than Massie, Amash, and Paul?

      1. You do now there’s air between “disaster for liberty” and “endorse”, right?

      2. They don’t like Paul and are pretty fair weather with Massie. Amash is their boy now for standing up to Trump and abandoning the party because he hates the man

    2. The Dems could resurrect Saint Reagan, and if he rand with a “-D” after his name y’all would say the same thing.

      I said the same thing when he ran as an -R, actually.

      1. Reagan is extremely overrated as a president. He pretty much screwed the pooch in 1986 with that tax reform act. He ran up the deficit. If only he had been half as good as people act like he was.

    3. Well the Democrat party has turned full on totalitarian socialist, so you don’t have much room to bitch.

      1. You think Biden is that radical? Pretty sure he’d be a Bush II/Obama clone.

        1. How many wars and how big an expansion of the government did those two start?

          1. Yeah, a lot. Not saying they are good, just not a radical departure from the norm.

            1. He’d be a puppet who’d sign off on the Green Leap Foward and double down on Obamacare

    4. Because if ever there were a party that’s a disaster for liberty, it’s the Democratic party. That should be obvious.

    5. Bloomberg (R)
      Bloomberg (D)
      Bloomberg (R)
      Bloomberg (D)
      Bloomberg (R)
      Bloomberg (D)
      Bloomberg (L) He gets your vote now?

    6. Medicare for all, GND, and a war on guns would be a disaster for liberty.

  12. if he rand

    Nice Freudian slip.

  13. “Both Are a Disaster”

    Saved you some words for next time.

  14. The lesser of two evils is still evil. Dems get to pick between a Biden corrupt beltway establishment past or a Sanders corrupt socialist establishment future.

    1. To run against corrupt Trump.

      They’re all corrupt, they’re all garbage, and none of them gives a flying f*** about you, me, or anyone else who doesn’t line their pockets with cash. Why anyone gives a damn who sits in the big chair is beyond me, let alone getting their panties all twisted in a knot over this bag of shit vs. that bag of shit.

  15. >>radical vision of what the party could be

    didn’t that happen 103 years ago?

  16. Criticize Biden all you want, but saying that these two are basically equal as to who would be worse for civil liberties is idiotic. Sanders would be way worse – he’s a self described socialist! Seems pretty self evident to me.

    1. Papa Joe is a dolt, but at least he won’t nationalize the shit out of everything.

      1. Except healthcare. And already promised Beto he could walk into your house and take your guns.

        1. I think that Beta is going to have a bad day if he tries.

          Maybe that’s really the secret, Biden just hates Beta O’Rourke.

          1. We got a sawed off and a red hot .44
            So all you looters best come heavy when you’re knocking on my door
            –Robert Earl Keen

        2. I’m not sure about that. He supports Obummercare, which of course is horrible, but it’s not nationalized healthcare. Plus, the establishment of DPC subscriptions and the increasing availability of short term catastrophic policies in some states is heartening.

          And I think just about everyone is a threat to the 2A, so conservatives/libertarians will always have to be on their toes about that.

  17. They’re only a disaster to liberty if they beat Trump…which neither of them will.

    (T)reason only thinks those options are a disaster because they want the pretend ideal candidate they think exists somewhere in the Democratic party to be President over Orange Man Bad. But the reality is that there’s no such candidate because the Democratic Party is rotten to the core and if they had anyone who was worth a damn, they’d be in the race.

    Trump is the pro-liberty vote, (T)reason…the sooner you grow up and realize that, the sooner the derangement will go away.

    1. I’m still dumbfounded that Obama was elected for a second term… I think the country is in worst ideological shape than many realize.

      1. I wasn’t shocked, because Romney was an utterly pathetic presidential candidate who didn’t have a clue how to connect with anyone…a failing that has been the hallmark of his Senate career as well.

        I despised Obama and even so I refused to vote for Romney. Didn’t vote for McCain in 2008 either for the same reason. I voted for the Republicans in 2016 because they finally came up with a presidential candidate who pushed issues I cared about and seemed dedicated to getting them enacted (a dedication he’s proven over the last three years).

        1. That fat fuck has reneged on almost every campaign promise he made…especially as pertains to foreign policy. All he’s done is waste money on sections of a useless wall.

  18. Astounding how people use the word “socialism” without any nuance. America is already a “socialist” country in many respects, only in Europe they call it Social Democracy, and they would, largely, say that Sanders is just slightly left of center. We are the only country in the developed world without universal healthcare. Dealing with this pandemic may prove how dangerous THAT is. “Personal freedom” as described by Republicans means millions can’t afford to get tested for a pandemic. How do you think that works our? Uplifting the lower and middle classes through programs that counteract the enormous destructive power of the Corporatocracy seems like a good goal. Personal liberty gets slashed in numerous ways, therefore I favor an Individualist/Mutualist position that might balance out corporate greed while maintaining individual rights. Drug-warrior Biden seems like a disaster, while oligarch-wanna-be Trump, even if he had a brain instead of just Reality TV chops, would continue to erode any sense of decency in the country, along with protections against corporate greed and pollution. Flawed Sanders is getting so much traction simply becomes he comes off as the most genuine of all the Dems. Just what “rights” do you think Sanders wants to take away? Sorry folks, I can’t afford to protect my cave all by myself. I’m not afraid of my neighbors to the degree that I disdain public works. Greed seems to curtail my individual movement a lot more than our “socialist” park service, military, post office, local police forces, fire stations, etc. You know, it used to be that if you didn’t pay the fire house up front, they just let your house burn down.

    1. Fuck off slaver.

    2. You know what you wacko’s never seem to get through your heads??

      #1 – Every Communist country FAILS – maybe not RIGHT NOW but they always do within 100-years..

      #2 – Politicians CANNOT give you healthcare!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY ARE NOT DOCTORS…… ALL they can do is show up at the doctors door with a GUN!!!!!!! AND FORCE him to work for you for ?????FREEEE????? or less than what he’s worth (Judged by the people)….. YOU JUST AS WELL let everyone out of prison because crime is a new “individual right” I guess…..

      #3 – The U.S. Constitution (THE VERY THING THAT GIVES US INDIVIDUAL FREEDOM) specifically states the Nation of the Union of States is for International affairs NOT your PERSONAL PROBLEMS. Local governments solve community problems AS IS your police, roads and fire… Why should Colorado citizens HAVE to be communized so your house in NYC doesn’t burn down?????? LOCAL GOVERNMENT for local problems (OTHERWISE ITS JUST A KING DICTATOR LIKE HITLER).

      1. BUT you did get one thing right “America is already a “socialist” country in many respects” — AND it’s also borderline collapsing under its national debt… Hmm…. Go figure.

      2. Wait a second… y’all keep insisting that Social Security and medicare and that stuff is “socialist”, and then conflating “socialist” with “communist”, so that means we’ve been communist since the 1930s at least.

        And if there’s a hundred year limit on “communist” countries, that means we only have like, two decades, at most.

        Well, that solves the “how do we pay for it” question at least. Rack up the debt, the USA 2.0 won’t have to pay it, so we’re golden.

        1. Bismark, no socialist he, implemented Social Security in Germany in the 1880’s.

          1. Correct.
            Bismarck’s goal was to maintain and entrench State supremacy, thus Social Democracy was born – and so many Good Little Germans have been produced

            1. @Nardz totally agreed. Nietszche called this one as it was happening, too many people didn’t listen.

      3. Constitution doesn’t grant me any rights. Protects my NATURAL rights from government intrusion. At least in theory.

        1. Constitution grants the right to jury trial, assistance of counsel, right to confront witnesses and compel testimony…..

          The constitution also protects natural rights like self defense with 2A.

          1. Those “rights” are actually just restrictions on the government. If they can’t find a lawyer for you, they can’t prosecute.

          2. The Constitution affirms natural rights we already have. To say it “gives” us rights suggests that the government gives (and therefore can also take away) rights.

    3. Just what “rights” do you think Sanders wants to take away?

      My right to private property and to enjoy the fruits of my own labor.

      1. WHICH coincidentally is the very definition of SLAVERY.

    4. How about the right to decide how I operate my own property? National rent control, ending all fracking, even on private land. The 2A? The right to freedom of association? Forcing me to give up my private insurance, that I like and chose myself, so he can force me on a program I don’t need or want. Should I go on?
      As for your universal health care, which country has the most advancements medically and is most likely to come up with a vaccine? Why, it’s the hated semi-free market American system. Health insurance access doesn’t equal quality of care. China has universal health care, as does Iran, how well is that working out for them?

      1. North Korea?

      2. Okay, I’ll bite.

        Rent control can have a negative effect on maintenance, which has been seen in NYC, in my experience, but the point of Bernie’s suggestion is to counteract the fleecing we are seeing in major cities where the rents are so inflated that only the super rich can afford to live near where they work. Look at SF as an example where over 30,000 homes are empty because property values are inflated and “the rent is too damn high.” I’d rather have another solution than imposing a law, but since we live in a Corporatocracy, I’m not sure there is another way. I’d be willing to hear one if you’ve got one.

        As for fracking, Tillerson admitted in an interview that Exxon knew about the negative effects of their industry on the environment decades ago and hid the facts, so excuse me if I don’t trust the current industry mafia to be honest about fracking. From what I’ve read, it seems more dangerous than helpful, and by my reckoning, the government’s function is to protect the citizens from foreign and domestic dangers. I don’t care if it’s done on your private land or not. You think anything goes just because you own the land and you have no responsibility for the well being of your neighbors? My point is “Individualist/Mutualist.” It’s a recognition that we can’t just do what we want and have a livable environment.

        “In addition to air and water pollution, fracking also increases the potential for oil spills, which can harm the soil and surrounding vegetation. Fracking may cause earthquakes due to the high pressure used to extract oil and gas from rock and the storage of excess wastewater on site. Dust from the sand used in fracking fluid can become airborne and is dangerous to breathe. Hydrocarbons – such as benzene and toluene – also get into the atmosphere and can cause leukemia and other types of cancer as well as other health problems.”

        The 2A? Check Bernie’s record. How do you think he’s been so popular in a rural largely conservative farming state like Vermont? As far as I can tell, he seems to want some sensible gun legislation. To respond to one exceedingly dumb aspect of the gun debate, I’ll refer to my old friend, Robert Anton Wilson’s comments,

        “I can’t see how the NRA can avoid eventually making this part of their platform: the right of the citizens to bear grenade launchers, flame-throwers, tactical missiles and nuclear weapons. If the citizens have the right to bear arms, they should have the right to bear as many arms as the government, or it’s no defense against the government at all, and that whole argument is hollow.”

        The right to freedom of association: I’m not sure how you think that is being infringed. I see Trump continuing Bush’s idea of putting protesters in “demonstration zones” in order to marginalize their impact and keep them out of sight of the Great Leader. Maybe you can explain how Bernie is threatening your freedom of association. I’m not aware of that issue.

        As for healthcare, I am astounded that you like your health insurance provider, especially when it costs you more than twice as much as any other developed nation. I’ve asked a lot of people, because the topic seems vital to me, but I’ve never met any American who likes any of the insurance mafias, especially the health insurance mafia and their friends in the medical industry’s mafia. As for your using China and Iran as examples, that’s just a bullshit rhetorical device that if I had used that in college I would have been flunked out. Why don’t you look at the many good examples, like Switzerland, France, Norway, Denmark, Holland, etc. Sorry, my friend, America is seen by most of the rest of the world as a third world nation in terms of how we are being ripped off by corporate mafias and how, despite our excellent doctors and research facilities, we still have some of the poorest health outcomes in the developed world.

        Many countries have a system whereby everyone gets rather good basic care, and if you are rich enough, you can buy private supplemental health insurance in order to get extras, like a private hospital room, or discounts on your nose job. I’ve lived in the UK, Germany and India. All three have universal healthcare, and I cannot overstate the importance of people not having the fear of going bankrupt because of a medical emergency. Ask most Americans and you will see that our disastrous healthcare insurance system fails us greatly. Maybe you are not one of the many each year who suffers in order to afford medical care. Good for you! Seems like a cruel attitude to me.

        No, healthcare access does not equal quality of care. No one said it does. That has nothing to do with the fact that you can have both. Thinking you can’t because of an irrational fear of universal care seems to me to be playing right into the hands of the Corporatocracy.

        Please excuse my shorthand use of the term Corporatocracy. It seems like an easy way to describe the way K Street, Wall Street and multinational monopoly corporations and cartels pad the politicians and write our laws in their favor while America’s infrastructure decays and our standard of living decreases yearly.

        1. You missed the point, completely. Tent control is a violation of private property. All current science states fracking is safe. No matter what someone said two decades ago. The science is nearly unanimous on this fact.
          You are making an assumption it will be cheaper but most analysis completely disagrees with this assessment. Additionally, most countries with universal health care have fewer choices and often have long waiting list. Also, according to almost every poll most Americans are happy with their insurance. You offer no evidence Americans aren’t. The polling completely disagrees with your assessment. It is also a myth most Americans live in fear of bankruptcy because of medical conditions. There is no evidence and again the polling finds the opposite.
          Also, as someone who worked in medicine for 17 years, both civilian and military, the government is by far the biggest driver of increasing medical costs and the reason (through stupid regulations) insurance cost so much. I don’t care if the rest of the world doesn’t like our current healthcare system. And I especially don’t like someone forcing me to take part in something I completely disagree with.
          Standard of living is up over the past couple of years across all income brackets. You have no real idea how the real world works. The government can’t fix our infastructure because they already overspend and are short on funds. Making them cover everyone’s healthcare will only make this worse.

          1. Rent control: And you missed my point completely. I asked you for a solution to a pressing problem. You didn’t offer a solution. You just gave me a Ring Lardner.

            Fracking: no it’s not settled science. I see no proof of that. Do you have evidence the science is settled? Do you trust the energy mafia’s word on this?

            I said everyone I have talked to about healthcare feels we are getting ripped off – when you explain alternatives and how much cheaper it is in other developed countries, they get the idea. Dig into the weeds about the polls and stats and you’ll see that a lot of Americans are avoiding the truth, and/or believe the BS you are spouting about healthcare in other countries. I’ve lived in several of those countries, so it’s hard to BS me about that.

            I didn’t say most Americas are in fear of going bankrupt because of medical bills. The stats are 500,000 Americans will go bankrupt this year from medical bills. I guess that’s an insignificant number for you. Gallup reports that Americans who have put off treatment for a “very serious” or “somewhat serious” condition rose to a record high of 25%. Why? Because they can’t afford it. That doesn’t happen anywhere else. And, you said nothing about the huge number of uninsured and underinsured, not to mention that Trump recently allowed the insurance mafia to sell deceptive policies that deliver much less than they promise, basically shit insurance that looks okay until you need serious care. That was done to BS the public about rescinding the ACA. I don’t necessarily care what the rest of the world says about our healthcare either, but it is informative. I just note the observation because it is my experience as well. Have you actually experienced healthcare in another country, or do you just believe the spin? The other major thing you avoided talking about is the fact that pandemic experts seem to agree that universal healthcare, in whatever form, would greatly increase the safety of the nation.

            Standard of living is usually self-reported. It does not reflect actual stats, like healthcare outcomes, or decades of stagnant wages, income inequality, unaffordable housing, drug addiction, high infant mortality rates, low life expectancy, poisonous tap water, preventable deaths, etc. It’s easy for people who have the time to be polled to not know the issues of people who are never asked their opinion.

            Look up ranking of healthcare worldwide and most reports put the US after at least ten other developed countries and our costs are usually more than twice as much. Other countries heavily regulate their healthcare industries and they still cost half as much. I would be more than happy to have regulations examined for excessive zeal, but I think you are overlooking greed as a factor. I have no idea how the real world works? You have no idea how universal healthcare works, obviously, or you wouldn’t be repeating the propaganda from the industry about healthcare in other countries. And no one seems to want to explain why conservatives, and Trump, whatever the hell he is, love to reduce pollution and safety regulations at the cost of the nation’s health. Again, I suspect greed.

            The enormous tax cuts the Republicans gave to the rich just allowed them to carry out huge stock buy backs, thus artificially inflating the stock market. How quickly we forget that under oath in congress Greenspan admitted trickle-down economics didn’t work. Google paid zero in taxes, and your excuse is that the government can’t afford to fix our crumbling infrastructure because they overspend. That’s cute. Okay, let’s take a look at the military budget.

            I love the quote from Robert Anton Wilson in summing up why he didn’t vote for the 1980 Libertarian Party candidate, he explained, “I am not that kind of Libertarian, really; I don’t hate poor people.”


              … and … “Not Stealing” =/= “Giving”…. One thing all you lefties seem to have in common in your flawed logic. Short of the countless paragraphs of emotional garbage that has no substance in it used to paint narratives that conflict with reality and actually making a point.

            2. Exactly WHY are you here in the USA if you don’t believe in the American principles (Not Communist) and think ‘those other developed countries’ (Never-mind their tax rate) are sooooo much better at healthcare???????????????

              Seriously… If you really believe your own garbage WHY are you still here trying to *fundamentally change* the USA instead of paying the $80 for a plane ticket to your championed fantasy location…. I’m sure you moving is a heck of a lot easier than changing an entire nation!!!

              “And no one seems to want to explain why conservatives, and Trump, whatever the hell he is, love to reduce pollution and safety regulations at the ???cost of the nation’s health???.” — There’s a billion and one reasons why oppressive regulation *IS* a cost to the nation’s health but I’ll give you one from personal experience. The Obama EPA standards just about KILLED the diesel wheel-loader business. It stranded diesel fire-trucks in route to emergencies. It caused new equipment to just catch on fire spontaneously. It wasted more labor hours and productivity and cost more in repairs with it’s “Regeneration” than anything else I’ve seen in my sector. People are demanding and paying more for OLD equipment because of it.

              1. Tjj2000,
                I said I’m more than willing to reduce unnecessary regulations, but I guess you don’t like to read what I actually said. You totally ignored what I said about the uninsured and the underinsured, and those being sold shit policies. I guess you think it fine they just die early so you can secure your individual liberty. Cute.

                Oh, and thanks for the update on the “love it or leave it” bullshit. I guess your doppelgänger said the same thing about segregation at one time. Is that emotional enough for you?

                “Exactly WHY are you here in the USA if you don’t believe in the American principles (Not Communist) and think ‘those other developed countries’ (Never-mind their tax rate) are sooooo much better at healthcare???????????????”

                Ah, so you are one of those “deep thinkers” who absurdly conflates social democracies and social policies with “communism.” I was born in America, and last I heard, I have a right to express my opinion without being told I don’t belong here. I would never say that to you. Thanks for clarifying your hatred.

                Healthcare in other developed countries: I don’t “think” they are better at healthcare. I read the stats, and have had the experience. I guess you only like to consider stats when they support your point of view. Yes, their tax rates are high, because they get something of value. We would pay more in taxes under universal care, but it would be offset by what we don’t pay in insurance fleecing, insane drug prices, co-pays and deductibles. That’s what the other developed countries figured out. The benefit of the entire population being covered seems totally lost on you.

                Get back to me when you have the Coronavirus because someone without healthcare was too afraid of hospital bills to get tested or treated.

                1. Social democracy is garbage. The majority should not get a say over my property rights and my right to keep the fruits of my labor. Liberals think democracy is always a good thing; it isn’t.

                  1. EXACTLY!!! —— Couldn’t have said it better myself. It’s astonishing how the DNC has brainwashed society into thinking the USA is no longer a Republic.

              2. TJJ2000,
                Conservatives love to talk about over-regulation, but most analyses point to other factors. Maybe you could widen your perspective and see why healthcare practices in the other developed nations are worthwhile considering. Check this out:

                1. LMAO!!! — Now that’s some funny stuff there. Lets see here what it says.

                  #1 Administrative Costs – So a Bureaucracy + Health facility = LESS Administration??? That’s just a contradiction in terms.
                  #2 Drugs Costs – Congress induced pharmaceutical regulation.
                  #3 Defensive Medicine – Congress induced liability laws.
                  #4 Expensive Unjustified Treatment – Gov made it so NO ONE cares what it costs.
                  #5 Work Rules – Congress induced
                  #6 Branding – Patients Congress induced

                  SUMMARY —->>> GET THIS; Holy Cow….
                  by having the government play a stronger role in negotiating prices for healthcare. Their healthcare systems don’t require the high administrative costs that drive up pricing in the U.S.

                  Maybe you could start to THINK. You do have a brain don’t you?
                  GOV is the problem but GOV is the solution;; Common now… Just a pinch of logic will do………

            3. “”Rent control: And you missed my point completely. I asked you for a solution to a pressing problem. You didn’t offer a solution. You just gave me a Ring Lardner. “”

              If you live in a city like NYC where many, many people want to live. You are going to have competition. Supply and demand. The demand is so great, supply cannot keep up. So you need a lot more on the supply side. Laws which govern how something is built can greatly raise the cost. See NYC’s 2.2 million dollar bathroom. When you have a shitload of regulations and taxes that drive costs up you cannot have affordable housing. Also one reason sited for the 2.2 million cost was that they paid a prevailing wage, up to $100 an hour. But I bet the laborer didn’t get that.

              Lower taxes, less regulations, don’t pay through the nose for labor.

        2. Saw your post on Facebook @Rasa… I’m currently halfway through a 30 day ban for posting some real sexy nude content on there but fortunately that doesn’t apply here 🙂

          Will reply now to all relevant points.

      3. It’s not free-market AT ALL – I would love to see medical prices if there actually was ANY form of price discovery in the US medical system. Instead, it is a corporate orgy lining up at the public trough of Medicare, Medicaid, and monopolistic price collusion. The costs started to skyrocket when insurance showed up on the scene.

        (BTW; it is not “health care” – health care is something you do for yourself by exercising, eating better, etc. It is medical care or sick care.)

        1. What Rasa is really saying, “Never-mind that ALL the previous socialistic governmental attempts at making ‘affordable’ healthcare resulted in rising prices and Never-mind actually that ALL socialistic governmental attempts at price control ‘affordability’ resulted in rising prices…. We just need to give the whole market to government then it’ll be ‘affordable’. See look at all those other countries with close to a 90% tax rate; they’re cheaper on *MY* invoice!!!”

          “The costs started to skyrocket when insurance showed up on the scene.” — My auto insurance didn’t go up UNTIL the government passed another “affordable insurance act”… lol… 🙂

          1. TJJ2000 says, “look at all those other countries with close to a 90% tax rate”

            Get your facts straight.

            Still no comment from you about the uninsured, the underinsured, and all those buying deceptive shit insurance. No comment about health experts saying universal care would greatly enhance any efforts at dealing with a pandemic. No comment about the other major factors that makes our health insurance more expensive than elsewhere.

            I said “I’m more than willing to reduce unnecessary regulations,” but you ignore that, and ignore everything else I mentioned so you can reiterate your concern for your money. So, no concern for society, just selfish concerns over your personal liberty.

            “I am not that kind of Libertarian, really; I don’t hate poor people.”
            – Robert Anton Wilson

            1. Funny I didn’t even have to go past the first line — ” It is not intended to represent the true tax burden to either the corporation or the individual in the listed country. ”

              Signed, The Experts.

              Ya, I DON’T WANT TO BE YOUR SLAVE so I’m the BAD GUY…..
              “just selfish concerns over your personal liberty.” — What’s funny is I think you actually meant that literally.
              Your so twisted….

              I don’t hate the poor until they show up with a GUN and try to STEAL like they’re completely ENTITLED to my labor.

    5. very good response. I would take it a bit farther but you said it well enough.

      we live in ‘society’ which is somehow related to socialism, I think.

      not since Neanderthal’s have we been libertarians , and where are they now.

      I used to get a chuckle when Ted Nugent advised us to hunt for our dinner. if that were the case every last game animal would have been killed and eaten in the first long weekend.

      1. You confuse libertarianism with anarchy.

      2. You’re thinking inside the box. All we have to do to solve that is to put human meat on the menu 🙂

    6. You know, it used to be that if you didn’t pay the fire house up front, they just let your house burn down.

      You’re full of shit. There was no such thing as *the* fire house, competing fire companies would frequently battle to be the first to arrive at a fire because insurance companies paid for putting out the fire. Insurance companies are of course voluntary cooperative ventures, no need to get the government involved.

      The reason cities took over the job was because a large part of a firefighter’s job involves sitting around doing nothing and every politician in the world has a long list of applicants for jobs that involve sitting around doing nothing. Here’s a picture of an early horse-drawn New York City fire engine, Americus Number 6. See there at the bottom where it says “Tweed’s Company Engine”? Do you know who Tweed was?

      1. Nice that you can read Wikipedia. What if you could not afford the fire insurance? Your house would burn down and the fire stations would protect the insured houses on either side, if they were insured.

        1. You do realize that it is illegal for any medical personal to turn down someone for any emergency medical or life threatening medical condition because they can’t pay?

          1. “You do realize that it is illegal for any medical personal to turn down someone for any emergency medical or life threatening medical condition because they can’t pay?”

            Are you really giving that BS excuse used by conservatives to justify the current system? Emergency care is no substitute for real healthcare. To say it is simply means you are too wealthy or too uncaring to feel the pain of millions of uninsured or underinsured Americans. You should really do some research on that claim. The outcomes for the uninsured and underinsured are a reality you would not wish on your parents, children or spouse, let alone yourself. Yikes! I thought this old deceptive BS was put to rest years ago. “Emergency room healthcare!” Give me a break.

            1. “Ya, because I have *Rights* to your labors (every healthcare professional) whether I can pay for them or not because I have *feels* and I’m *human*”, Rasa will scream until your ears bleed.

              The amount of sheer arrogant self-entitlement is rather impressive.

            2. Rasa, I was born and raised in Canada.

              I don’t think Bernie with all the checks and balances on him would be able to turn the USA into Cuba or Venezuela, even if he wanted to (which he may or may not).

              I am worried about the US becoming more like Canada.

              I’ve actually lived in 5 countries. Two of them (Canada and Spain) have single-payer socialized medicine and it’s a fucking DISASTER.

              I wouldn’t be too worried about seeing a multi-tier system happen in the US. I’m philosophically opposed to the government getting involved in health or education etc. but one has to pick one’s battles.

              Instituting a single-payer system in the US would be a disaster at the global level, because it would kill the goose that lays the golden eggs. The US is where the vast majority of all progress in medicine happens. Part of the reason why Europe and Asia don’t just implode is because they benefit from innovation in places like the US which makes their single-payer systems even remotely viable.

              I have two questions for you:

              1) Why would you think that the government would ever be capable of being able to make proper decisions as to what proper medical care would be for people? They can’t even get nutrition right and continue to push bad science on us that has been discredited and debunked decades ago!

              2) Do you really think people should be FORCED to help other people whether they want to or not?

          2. You do realize that many people don’t go to the doctor when they need to because the prices are out of reach and they have some garbage high-deductible plan? Especially many people who actually pay their bills and care about their credit score?

            Oh, that’s right, it’s not you, so they can go fuck themselves.

            Strawman 101.

            1. And to think BEFORE the government got involved in healthcare – Those in the healthcare industry would come to your house and offer healthcare for the same charge as a pizza…

              Think about it EVERY high cost in society *IS* the most regulated by our government and with each ‘new’ regulation the price goes up – no matter how many times they use “affordable” in their bill.

        2. That’s exactly what the government does now. Read up on Pay for Spray.

          Regardless, with private fire companies you’d probably already be living in fire-proof homes because insurance would be much cheaper. (Obviously it costs less to prevent a fire than to replace everything a customer owns) I imagine that you’d get discounts for having on-site extinguishers and fast-alert sensors that warn when something inside is burning.

          It’s not an unsolvable problem. Policing is different.

          1. Pay for Spray seems to have been a 2010 issue in Tennessee, but it looks like they changed the rule so that you pay afterwards, not before. I guess they got too much negative press when they let a woman’s house burn down due to not paying the “tax.” In any case, that’s not “what the government does now.” Does any other state do that?

        3. There are risks to owning a home. If you purchase you are accepting a risk. The reward is that you end up owning something. If you want the reward and accept the risk, then it’s your problem. Not the taxpayer. If you can’t manage the risks, then you should purchase the house.

          Basically what you are arguing for is a personalizing the reward, and put the taxpayer on the hook for the risk.

          1. If you can’t manage the risks, then you should not purchase the house.

      2. AND, are you really maligning modern fire fighters by comparing them to Boss Tweed’s corruption? The folks who risk their lives everyday? The folks who selflessly ran into the World Trade Center on 9/11? The guys who saved my house from burning in the California wildfires? You are actually saying that modern fire fighters are political hires? Do you have any idea how many fire fighters are volunteers who work in fire houses paid for by their communities, and do you have any idea of how noble that service is? I don’t mean to be unkind to you, but you are plainly a jerk.

        1. So…
          gov fire fighters = hero’s
          any other fire fighters = greedy

          And somehow that $3,973,974,000,000 in Revenue ($12K/yr population counted citizen) income the government TAKES by GUN force every year isn’t “greedy” at all but the ones who receive their income by personal choice instead of gun force is “greedy”.

        2. “you are plainly a jerk” — Yes, you are…

          Your entire ideology rests upon the idea that —

          “mob” gun-induced POWER = WEALTH
          …and… voluntary ADD-VALUE = GREEDY

          instead of…..
          VALUE = WEALTH

        3. Firefighters and police officers are individuals and should not be judged as a group, positively or negatively. I know lots of instances of firefighters doing shit like ripping gold teeth out of corpses, but that’s moot as far as this discussion goes. The question here is public vs private.

  19. The worldwide political paradigm, i.e., initiation of force/fraud is a disaster to liberty NO MATTER WHO rules. Just as “benevolent dictator” is an oxymoron so is benevolent ruler, representative, politician. The “lessor” disaster is still a disaster. If you prefer to compromise and accept a disaster to avoid a worse disaster you have accepted a false alternative. Accept NEITHER disaster, no disaster at all. Reject the coercive paradigm COMPLETELY. Be consistent. Be principled. Be practical & moral. It’s only logical.

  20. Sanders is by far the lesser of evils.

    1. …. And the devil has a halo.

  21. what deep thoughts! what is the pay for this kind of whine?

    we have 2 or 3 choices, for POTUS. same as every election since 1778.
    if the libertarian idea is a good one, where is the Libertarian candidate?

    and if civil liberties is your thing , can you think of voting for the orange-e-tang for one non-second?

  22. Democrats are giving me the choice of Statler or Waldorf….as usual I’ll just laugh.

    1. The Dems aren’t cynical and realistic enough to be Statler and Waldorf.

      The Democrats would let the management give them balcony seats, and in return would applaud at every lame act.

  23. I’ve been listening to this shit show very carefully, and if you read between the lines, both Biden and Bernie have already chosen their running mates, which should make your choice even easier (or possibly even more excruciating). Biden is choosing O’Rourke (Little Bedo in a Speedo), to do his gun-grabbing for him, and Bernie, bless his soul (if he has one), is choosing Winona LaDuke, cause Bernie’s just got to Bernie. Please remember you heard it here first.

    1. *scribbling notes, slapping post-it on monitor*

    2. And the DNC will make sure that Hillary Clinton is made VP to either of these one foot in the grave nominees.

  24. How bad the next president is has a lot to do with who controls congress. Let’s all cross our fingers and hope for divided government.

    1. Except Trumps first term had full [R] government, spent LESS than when the [D] took the house and threw out oppressive regulations like nobodies business.

      Heck with a full [R] government the wildly expensive “??affordable??lol..What a joke” Obamacare almost got repealed short one RINO vote.

  25. FTFY….Both Are a Disaster for Liberty.

  26. I’m pretty sick of Establishment Dems rationalizing their corruption as moderation.

    By definition Democratic Socialism is what we make it. It’s kinda hard to make decisions in the public interest when you belittle the existence of it as a rationalization to avoid responsibility.

    Moderation starts with showing respect and doing your part. No more, no less.

    1. Bernie might have been a socialist at one time but he is just another inside the system democrat big government spending political hack at heart.

      The socialist democrat thing is mostly a schtick. Like Dean Martin playing the drunk.

  27. Christian misspelled “oligarchy” as “liberty”

  28. “bring millions of people into the political process who normally do not vote.”

    Hasn’t that been the mission of every Democrat for… as far back as I can remember?

    They’ll bring them in by buses, train, under tarps, through the back door, with fake mustaches and beards, groucho glasses, hell, even on death certificates.

  29. For libertarians, however, it’s a hard call determining which is the lesser of two evils.

    Just FYI, we don’t need a “Libertarian Case For [__________]” article. So, just delete that file out of Google docs now.

    1. Well we already got the Gillespie “Id wouldve voted for bloomberg is he was nicer to guns” so why not the “Libertatian Case for Bernie Sanders brand of Communism”. Thrill me Reason.

  30. Damnit, I wanted Sanders. Let’s have this out right now.

    1. I do too, if for no other reason that it’s time to put his ideas to the Democratic test.

  31. It’s not enough for Sander to lose. He must lose because he’s a socialist who can’t even get elected in the Democratic Party.

    Texas. It’s all about Texas.

    If we can count on anything in an election year, shouldn’t it be Texas voting against a self-described socialist?

    1. Texas and quite a few other fly-over states.

      The Democrats are in a real conundrum here. If Sanders doesn’t win the nomination, the Sander’s faithful will stay home in protest, believing their candidate as the victim of another DNC smokescreen.

      If Sanders does win, Berkeley, Brooklyn, San Francisco, Portlandia and Seattle will vote for Sanders… but not much else.

      1. I’m balancing all that other stuff out.

        Biden needs to win Texas because Sanders will win California.

        If Sanders wins Texas, Biden’s chances drop huge. There’s not enough left in the rest of the country to make up for that in areas where Biden is likely to win.

        1. Looking at the polling it looks like they are going to split the states and Texas is going to be close, whichever way it goes. I don’t think either will have enough for the first ballot.

          1. I want Sanders to lose the nomination–and I want it to be because he’s a socialist.

            It’s not enough to reelect Trump. We need to discourage the Democrats from nominating a socialist for generations to come.

            1. I don’t know, splitting off the socialist and showing the Democrats how bad their alliance with them was tactically would be a good thing too.

            2. I want him to win the nomination and lose the general, because he’s a socialist. If he loses the primary, it’ll be because the DNC wouldn’t let real socialism be tried.

              1. “If he loses the primary, it’ll be because the DNC wouldn’t let real socialism be tried.”

                That’s good. You could put it on a t-shirt

                1. It’s how his sycophants will frame it. Remember many of them maintain that true communism has never been tried.

              2. “I want him to win the nomination and lose the general, because he’s a socialist. If he loses the primary, it’ll be because the DNC wouldn’t let real socialism be tried.”

                Winning nominees shouldn’t even bother trying socialism.

                That’s what we learned tonight.

                In 2016, being a socialist got Bernie Sanders about 30% of the Democrats in the primaries.

                In 2020, being a socialist got Bernie Sanders about 30% of the Democrats in the primaries.

                If you want 30% of the Democrats in the primaries, do what Bernie Sanders did–and you won’t even win the Democratic nomination.

                The only Democrat constituency that appears to be worse for your chances of winning the nomination than being a socialist is being a social justice warrior. That’s what Elizabeth Warren represented in this election. Being a social justice warrior got Liz Warren 10% of the Democratic vote.

                Liz Warren won about as many delegates as Tulsi Gabbard, and Tulsi Gabbard was raptured three weeks ago–and no one has seen her since.

    2. FYI, Texas: Sanders leading.

      1. .4% reporting.

        1. All early voting, we will see how much the bought endorsements shifted things yesterday.

        2. At 11:10pm, Texas has Sanders in a 3% lead over Biden with 30% precincts reporting,

          Commifornia returns are coming in.

    3. Texas will be blue in 10 years – between the twin influx of Hispanics and Californians, it doesn’t stand a chance…and I lived in Dallas for over 25 years.

  32. Biden Restoration!? Hair Club for Men or dental implants?

    1. It’s subcutaneous, and involves a small pump.

  33. on the bright side, based on the early results i’m seeing it looks like Warren is about done

    1. Careful, she could be a VP pick, and survive the Corona epidemic that is sure to doom Biden and Bernie.

  34. Biden and Bernie offer a stark choice the same way a guillotine and a firing squad offer a stark choice. Can’t we agree that they’re both case studies in untreated late-stage Creutzfeldt-Jakob and the details don’t much matter?

  35. I don’t really have a dog in the fight.

    Just interesting to see who would make for a more interesting election which Trump will win anyway.

    Sanders has that kinda crazy scrappy bushy haired old hippie thing going.

    Biden looks the part but don’t see him generating much excitement. Trump can’t stand him though so might be a good fight.

    I’m done with all of them. You could put an eggplant in a suit and put an (L) next to his name and I would rather vote for him than any of these schmucks.

    1. Me neither. I’m just going to grab some popcorn and watch; hopefully there will be some entertainment. Liberty is going to lose no matter what this year, but at least I get to troll the losing side.

  36. Because I am the only one that’s ever got it done nationally. I’ve beat the NRA twice. I’ve got assault weapons banned. I got magazines that could hold more than 10 rounds, I got them eliminated.

    So… Lies, basically.

    As for picking “the lesser of two evils”, stop trying. Recognize evil as evil, and refuse to accept either.

    1. I think it was Mae West who said “In choosing between evils I try to pick the one I haven’t tried yet”

  37. I don’t know – I’m listening to Bernie and he sounds pretty goddamn pissed off that people are voting for him, he’s probably going to start axe-murdering people if they actually elect him. That is one angry old man up there.

    1. You know how hard it is to keep kids off your lawn when you’ve got three of them ?

  38. Operation chaos is working great!

    Lefties in Virginia actually think there are a few hundred thousand instant new democrats to vote against Trump.

    They are stupid that republicans are voting in their open democrat primary to sow seeds of destruction.

    1. Trump lost Virginia to Hillary in 2016.

  39. Take his answer in the last CBS debate, when asked why voters should trust him to take on the issue of mass shootings. “Because I am the only one that’s ever got it done nationally. I’ve beat the NRA twice. I’ve got assault weapons banned. I got magazines that could hold more than 10 rounds, I got them eliminated,” said Biden.

    He also sponsored the 1994 Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act.

    Strangely enough he did not tout it, even though that was his solution to mass shootings back then.

  40. “Government” is a disaster for liberty. Wake up.
    “Grown men do not need leaders.” – Edward Abbey
    You can’t eradicate cannibalism by eating the cannibals; there is no better analog for what voting is.
    The voting booth should reconfigure the ballot lever to a dildo and require the Helots to use their mouths to make the selection of their next master, it also provides a keen preview of things to come for the voter.
    “A ballot is just a substitute for a bullet. If your vote isn’t backed by a bullet, it is meaningless. Without the bullet, people could ignore the election outcome. Voting would be pointless. Democracy has violence at its very core!” ~Muir Matteson, “The Nonviolent Zone”
    “An election is a moral horror, as bad as a battle except for blood; a mud bath for every soul concerned in it.” ~ George Bernard Shaw
    “Free election of masters does not abolish the masters or the slaves.” Herbert Marcuse
    “Working within the system means to become a part of the system. When you go into the voting booth, the only meaningful significance that your action will have is to show that one more person supports the state”. ~Mark Davis
    “Politics is the gentle art of getting votes from the poor and campaign funds from the rich, by promising to protect each from the other.” ~ Oscar Ameringer
    “If the right to vote were expanded to seven year olds … its policies would most definitely reflect the ‘legitimate concerns’ of children to have ‘adequate’ and ‘equal’ access to ‘free’ french fries, lemonade and videos.” ~ Hans-Hermann Hoppe

  41. I won’t vote for Biden, but I won’t be bothered if he wins in November. He will be pretty much a status quo president but will likely undo some of Trump’s asinine executive orders. Biden 2020 = BYE DON 2020.

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