Excessive Force

Jeffrey Epstein Is Dead Because His Jailers Neglected Him. He's Not the Only One.

The most unusual thing about Jeffrey Epstein dying in a federal jail was how quickly the Justice Department sprang into action to investigate it.


The sprawling Bureau of Prisons (BOP) is one of the most opaque, tight-lipped, and slow-moving agencies in the entire federal government, and yet it sprang into action following the apparent suicide of Jeffrey Epstein, a mysterious billionaire who was rearrested in July on accusations of sex trafficking.

U.S. Attorney General William Barr said he was "appalled" by the news that Epstein had died of an apparent suicide in a federal lockup in Manhattan. He also announced that the Justice Department had already uncovered "serious irregularities" at MCC New York, the jail where Epstein died. 

The Bureau of Prisons has already reassigned the warden of the jail, and news outlets reported that guards who were supposed to be monitoring Epstein were literally sleeping on the job and falsifying jail logs to cover up their lapses. 

The "serious irregularities" that the Justice Department suddenly uncovered are everyday occurrences within the BOP, and anyone who's bothered to pay attention to the federal prison system has known about them for years. The real irregularity is that the Justice Department is acknowledging the problems' existence. 

USA Today reported last year on critical staff shortages at federal prisons that resulted in nurses and other auxiliary staff being pressed into guard duty. This January, congressional investigators released a report finding that serious misconduct at BOP is "largely tolerated or ignored altogether."

"Clusterfuck doesn't begin to describe the current state of the BOP, and it dates far beyond the Trump administration," David Safavian, deputy director of the American Conservative Union Foundation's criminal justice reform center, told The Marshall Project this week. "Anyone who thinks BOP is a high performing organization has never been inside a federal prison."

Part of the problem is that the BOP is its own secretive fiefdom. It's incredibly hard for reporters, family members, and civil liberties groups to find out what goes on behind prison walls, much less hold officials accountable.

For example, Reason has been waiting since April for records from BOP regarding the death of several inmates at FCI Aliceville, a federal women's prison in Alabama. I received a tip from a mother whose incarcerated daughter sent her a message saying women there were dying due to medical neglect:

Today the 4th person died since I have been here. She died in medical at around 1 p.m. after sitting in medical complaining of chest pains since 8 a.m….. waiting to be seen…. My friend from my unit was in medical with her and described the lack of concern shown to this poor woman…. her family I pray learns the truth of how she died…. in the hallway slumped over in a wheelchair, until she fell out onto the floor dying, lying there with no one rushing over to assist her—praying for an ambulance that never came.

The BOP confirmed the names in three of these cases to me, but declined to provide any more information on the causes or circumstances of the deaths.

The family of Rick Turner is waiting for answers, too. Turner, a nonviolent drug offender, died in a maximum-security penitentiary in June. His family had begged BOP to relocate him, saying he feared for his life in the gang-ridden prison, and a member of Congress sent inquiries about his case, all to no avail.

I tried to get records on Turner's death, but BOP rejected my Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) request, citing an ongoing investigation.

And for the last year, I've been trying to get to the bottom of what happened to Michael Monsivais, a former federal inmate who says correctional officers at FCI Lompoc, a federal prison complex in California, threw flashbang grenades on him and two other inmates while they were lying prone on the ground.

Monsivais, who was doing time for a drug offense, had a good reputation at Lompoc and had convinced the BOP bureaucracy, through years of tireless lobbying, to let him start an industry-certified vocational welding program for inmates.

On the night of June 21, 2017, a large fight broke out between two gangs at the prison. Monsivais wasn't anywhere near the fight. He was in a separate housing unit for the Residential Drug Abuse Program (RDAP). The RDAP is the only program through which federal inmates can reduce their sentences, and as such, the lucky ones who are accepted into it aren't looking for trouble.

In interviews and written statements, Monsivais and other former Lompoc inmates in the RDAP unit say that about an hour after the fight started, they were in their dorm getting ready for lights-out when they were ordered to stand by their bunks. They assumed they were about to be counted, but corrections officers yelled at everyone to get on the floor and, seconds later, threw flashbangs that landed on top of Monsivais' and another inmate.

"So two of these grenades exploded next to my leg and blew the sweats off the left side of my leg," Monsivais recalls. "And it burned me from my ankle all the way to my upper thigh, all the way down my left arm and parts of my left side."

"Blew his entire pants off," says Donald Konshuk, another former Lompoc inmate in the unit that night. "Burned his legs, shrapnel in his legs—him and a couple of other people that were right there."

Monsivais' bunk was the closest to the door, which is why he says he was hit. Ramon Daniel, another inmate in the RDAP unit, was assigned to the second closest bunk and says he was struck by two flashbang grenades.

"One of them landed by my left foot, blew up and broke my left toe," Daniel says. "I can not repair it—unrepairable. I went to the doctors, and they can't do anything about it. The next one fell on my right leg where it blew up. I had plastic balls in my legs that I removed two days later by myself because medical said, 'We don't have any time to give you any attention.'"

Monsivais was then thrown in the SHU—"special housing unit," a sanitized term for solitary confinement—for 71 days. He says he was told he was being investigated for his possible role in the fight, but he and other inmates believe it was to cover up what happened. His fellow inmates wrote statements in his defense, for all the good that did. When he was finally cleared and let out of the SHU, he had to start the nine-month RDAP program again from scratch, pushing back his release date.

Monsivais says the grievances he filed were all dismissed, which is typical. FOIA records obtained by HuffPost in 2017 show that a minuscule number of inmate complaints against BOP officials are sustained.

Other former Lompoc inmates from the RDAP dorm confirmed Monsivais' story but didn't want to give their names, as they were still in halfway houses and feared retaliation from BOP (All of the former inmates I spoke to said institutional retaliation is a fact of life in the federal prison system.

"Michael Monsivais, he got done dirty," one former Lompoc inmate says. "They did him wrong."

Monsivais and Daniel said prison officials took pictures of their injuries, but BOP has stonewalled attempts to get them. When Monsivais filed a FOIA request for records on the incident, BOP completely withheld 65 out of 67 pages of records. Monsivais gave me a privacy waiver so I could put in a request for his inmate files, but BOP withheld 97 pages in total from me.

I don't know if the pictures are hidden away in those pages, and without the photos, Monsivais has been unable to drum up much interest from reporters or civil rights lawyers in his case.

In the meantime, he's launching a nonprofit, No More Locked Doors, that will place formerly incarcerated people in union trade jobs like welding, but the night of June 21, 2017, still gnaws at him.

"I'm a very stubborn and persistent individual, and based on everything I accomplished over there, they should know that. But I guess they're making the bet that I'm going to just go away and get overwhelmed out here with life," he says. "What they did to us was wrong, and I believe it's something worth standing up for."

People reach out to reporters when the government fails them. I tried, but I haven't been able to prove yet whether Michael Monsivais was a victim of brutality, or whether a woman at FCI Aliceville died in a hallway waiting for someone to take her pleas seriously, or whether Rick Turner—a "kind, compassionate man" according to an email I received from a woman who worked with him at a children's hospital—was murdered just like he said he would be.

Meanwhile, Epstein's death, a giant embarrassment for the Justice Department,  is being investigated by the Justice Department Inspector General, the FBI, and the House Judiciary Committee.

The Justice Department could investigate all these incidents, and who knows how many hundreds of others that go unreported within our prisons, and inform the American people. But apparently, you have to be a high-profile scandalous billionaire to get that kind of attention.

NEXT: FDA Unveils Graphic New Warning Labels for Cigarettes

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  1. The Bureau of Prisons has already reassigned the warden of the jail

    I’m sure he’s learned his lesson.

    1. Don't be the warden of a prison when a high profile prisoner dies.

      That's the lesson.

      You can abuse, harm or even kill your inmates. .... that's all fine. But bring bad press and a DOJ investigation down on the BOP? Oh, hell no! You gotta go!

      1. I heard the guards also got sent home for a while after a stern talking to.

        1. And their fat stacks of cash from the Clinton Global Initiative.

          1. If Trump, Barr, and the Justice Department let the Clintons get to Epstein, maybe Americans should fire Trump and Barr and hire a Clinton.

            On the other hand, Epstein died a few days after the affidavit of a victim describing how she was recruited at Mar-a-Lago by Trump's pal Epstein was reported, so perhaps Trump and Barr wanted Epstein silenced?

            This is the same lockup Barr specified when intervening in Paul Manafort's handling while in custody . . . good luck with that, Paul!

            1. They didn’t ‘let them’ you dumb cunt. I’m sure they bribed and/or threatened people at the facility where he was held. And everything else you said is also bullshit. As usual.

              Best so,Union is to put the Clintons in front of a firing squad.

            2. Trump's 'pal'? Yeh give us proof asshole.

              As soon as it became public Epstein was a dubious individual, Trump kicked him out of his club.

              Oh. And you're a loser.

            3. “And hire a Clinton”.

              Haha. Yeah. That’s a good idea. Maybe you do have a sense of humor, rev.

            4. Trump life-banned Epstein from his Mar-a-Lago property after he found out the pervert propositioned a minor while there. They certainly knew each other, but it would not seem they were big buddies.

              I know you have a very casual relationship with the facts there in your mental health facility, Albert, but try to keep up the best you can.

              1. They have a photograph. And a 30-year-old video! And he flew on one of Epsteins' secondary jets from Miami to NY.

                What more do you need for impeachment?

    2. From all of the hype and speculation...it seems most likely Epstein died from having his throat crushed against the upper railing of the bunk bed. Somewhat similar to the 'political officer' in the movie Red October.

  2. Epstein was placed in federal lockup so they could get rid of him. Anybody who still thinks it was suicide is delusional. Anyone who believes government or police will protect you are living in a fantasy world.

    1. He didn't die in a federal lockup He died in a NY state lockup.

      1. federal lockup in Manhattan.

      2. I see I was wrong. I thought he had been transfered to the custody of the state of New York for trial.

    2. As to it being suicide, I'm with you.

      I've seen reports that his neck was broken. That's not easy to do by hanging yourself.

      You need enough "rope" to fall far enough to generate enough force to break the neck.

      You need to start high enough so you don't hit the ground before you run out of rope.

      Not enough rope leaves you with a slow hang, death by strangulation, not a broken neck.

      Too low or too much rope and you live.

      Even if you get the length of rope and height right, setting up the noose wrong can mean a slow hang rather than a broken neck.

      There is a reason why hangman was considered a skilled profession back in the 19th century.

      There is no way he broke his own neck by hanging in a jail cell.

      1. Not enough rope leaves you with a slow hang, death by strangulation, not a broken neck.

        And if reports about the way the bones were broken are to be believed, this is more likely.

        If there was something near the floor to tie to and enough length to reach his neck, I could see setting that up then just leaning forward into it. No need to fall from any height that way.

        1. No, from executions by hanging in the US and other countries which preferred fast hang (broken neck) to a slow hang, its not that you need a full drop with the sudden stop to generate enough force to snap the neck by force of gravity.

          In some places where they didn't have gallows that were high enough, they would tie sandbags to the prisoners feet to generate more force (because more weight) with a shorter drop.

          A long rope secured to the floor then over a beam won't do the job, it's the how far the victim falls that matters, not the absolute length of the rope.

          1. While I am also suspicious about this death, you are comparing the wrong stuff here. His neck wasn't broken (the vertebrae being crushed and severed from the base of the skull) as you would get in a hanging, there were neck bones broken. These bones are generally an indication that the person was strangled, though they can happen through suicide.

          2. Reports this morning were talking about how his hyoid bone was broken and how that happens more with strangulation than hanging.

            I’m not talking about starting low and going over something, I’m saying you tie a knot at the floor then run the “rope” up to your neck behind your back. Once you’ve got it tied, just fall forward like a plank. That still probably won’t be enough force to break the neck and cause immediate death, but might it be enough to cause a blackout followed by strangulation?

            1. The hyoid bone has some mobility as it is only attached to cartilage. It is a very rare fracture. There are reports of other fractures. Yup it takes a lot of force to do that.

              The classic “hangman’s fracture” which probably did not happen here is a fracture through the pedicles of C2. It is a hyperextention injury. The head snaps back. The idea was if properly done the cord would be severed. In reality there is a high survival rate from this injury.

              1. Laughable speculation by y’all without any evidence to support a claim besides suicide.

                1. (Enter Lt. Columbo)

                  “ evidence, oh we have no evidence sir. Just a few things I need to clear up for the record.”

                  “And one more thing, just bothering me. The guards, the prison guards who fell asleep. I worked a lot of night shifts sir, the one thing is do not fall asleep on duty. Would have lost my job years ago. “

                  “So how long is the shift? Were they working overtime? I mean, they had a high profile prisoner here with known suicidal tendency. I would have known do not mess up this assignment if I want to keep my job.”

                  LC you claim you were in the navy. Falling asleep on watch? Not one but two guards?

                  Well perhaps it was an arranged suicide or a murder. I do not know.

      2. No, this was not suicide, it was murder.

        You will note that in order to make sure of neck breaking in the old days, the rope was long enough so that that when the trap door opened, the victim dropped a couple of feed to get the right "snap".

        In this case the ceiling of the cell is reported to be only 8 ft high. Hanging in that room would have killed by asphyxiation, not a broken neck. He was already dead when they hung him up.

  3. Thank you so much for shining a light on the disastrous conditions of the BOP. The fact is, federal prisoners are viewed essentially as livestock, with little concern at all for their well-being. They are severely overcrowded and receive minimal or no medical attention. I know of inmates who spent days in anaphylaxis because no epi shot was available; others who waited over 9 months to be transferred to different prison to treat a fingernail infection (it got REALLY bad); and still others who would line up daily to receive psychotropic prescriptions that probably did nothing more than sedate them. Pity a prison block that gets a flu bug. There is NO ONE who cares for the prisoners inside the BOP.

  4. Thanks for the update.

    Really tough to cover the "abuse in prison" thing if you can't get any information at all.

    The only real "inside information" I've read lately was the Mother Jones story by Shane Bauer.

    1. Great read, thanks for the tip. Federal Bureau of Prisons administers the Metropolitan Correctional Center where Jeffrey Epstein died. We must reform sentencing, and release most prisoners for non-violent drug related crimes.

  5. But that story is told from a "for profit prisons are the problem" angle. But I suspect that the issues he uncovered are equally prevalent in all prisons.

    It is a crappy, insular world where nobody cares enough about the issues to do anything about it. In fact, they don't even care enough to stop them from hiding everything from a reporter at a fringe site like Reason.com

  6. Look, everyone in prison is a criminal. Criminals are bad people. Do we really need to be concerned about how bad people are being treated? If they didn’t want to be treated badly then they shouldn’t have become criminals.

    /Average American

    1. That's exactly the problem. Absent a potent national scandal, prison officials are more apt to get a medal for malfeasance than facing any sort of discipline.

      1. The other problem is the media is too busy chasing "Orange Man Bad" or the latest athlete who may have said something bad about the sacred gays when they were 15 to ever report on the problem. The prisons in this country would horrify most people if they had any idea what they are actually like. The media ensures they don't.

        1. that has definitely been my favorite whipping post of late. They barely cover anything at the national level that isn't either "Ooh, look shiny!!" infotainment or something to further the propaganda machine's narrative.

          1. Whipping post and that led me to one place then another, or somewhere else.

            Ended up here in the music post nobody cares about.

            Little Feat Willin’


            1. Nice! I haven’t heard Little Feat in so long!

              1. Thanks.

                Juanita sweet Juanita.

                Southern funk jam band. Never better.

                Richie Hayward prolly best funk session drummer ever. Played with doobies, Arlo Guthrie, Dylan, Peter frampton, too many to list.

    2. Meh. An overly simplistic non observation.

      Just for balance, here’s another one for ya: I’m guessing that the contempt the guards have for the prisoners is acquired, not instinctive. Try it some time!


  7. The most unusual thing about Jeffrey Epstein dying in a federal jail was how quickly the Justice Department sprang into action to investigate it.

    Whitewash it, you mean.

  8. Judging by some of the stories I've seen here on Reason, if you don't like being neglected by the prison guards, you really aren't going to like it when they take an active interest in you.

  9. This bears essentially no relationship to the usual BOP horrors.

    This was a hit. And as such, I think it is entirely unreasonable to expect any warden (or lesser employee) to stick his neck between the likes of Epstein and the powerful people who want him dead.

    1. Agreed. It's great that Reason continues to expose this shit. But it's pretty obvious that somebody wanted this guy dead by whatever means and somebody got the job done. The DOJ investigation is designed to convince us that Top Men have uncovered the truth and the obvious is just a crazy conspiracy theory. It took a generation for the masses to accept the official version of the JFK assassination story. Looks like the conventional wisdom is already set in stone this time.

      1. The way to commit a crime is to commit an enormous crime and to do so in plain sight. That way you can call anyone who doesn't believe their lying eyes a conspiracy theorist. I mean really, how could something that bad be true?

  10. So, Orange Is The New Black is a documentary.

    1. The book is. It was written by some hipster chick who got involved in a lesbian relationship with a woman who ran a drug smuggling ring. She ended up doing a year in Danberry federal prison for women.

      1. Danbury Federal prison.

      2. So she got rewarded for her hipster dumbassery and poor decisions.

        No wonder I don't watch anything anymore.

        Except for Deadliest Catch.

  11. Jeffrey Epstein is dead because his guards slept through his suicide for three hours without anyone noticing.

    Jeffrey Epstein is dead and the cameras all just malfunctioned.

    Jeffrey Epstein is dead and they ended his suicide watch 'just because'

    Jeffrey Epstein is dead and he was accidently issued the tools to kill himself with.

    Jeffrey Epstein is dead and there's nothing to see here.

    1. Epstein is the first high profile federal defendant ever to show up dead in their cell before trial. It is just one of those things you know.

        1. Thanks for the tip, MCC was already notorious for inhumane treatment years before Jeffrey Epstein! Best article yet on MCC.

    2. You forgot.they transferred his cell mate out just a few hours prior.

      1. No, that couldn't have happened.

        They were asleep.

        Pity the cameras were malfunctioning.

    3. It's really odd to see Reason adopting the "actually, suicides by prisoners are really common!" woketake bullshit, and trying to make it sound like this is just one more instance of garden-variety incompetent. Regardless of the track record of the BOP, no one had died in the MCC SHU where Epstein was housed, *ever*.

      I guess Reason is now just one more place to come to have someone piss on your leg and tell you it's raining.

      1. You guys need to cite that.

      2. And you are surprised .. how?

    4. Jeffrey Epstein's death stunned to a lot of people...though probably not as much as Epstein himself.

      1. It stunned Bill and Hillary Clinton but the several weeks they had to prepare for the event greatly lessened the shock.

  12. The BOP is a total mess and a national disgrace. Of that there can be no doubt. I do not, however, believe that Epstein's death was the result of ordinary incompetence. The BOP can be quite competent when it wants to be. The BOP has handled any number of very high profile prisoners who were the subject of important cases without allowing them to commit suicide or turn up dead in their cells for whatever reason.

    I defy anyone to think of a high profile defendent in a federal case other than Epstein who was left to die in his cell. I can't remember one. And this includes inmates like mobsters who were about to rat on their bosses and had multi million dollar prices on their heads. It includes terrorists such as Tim McVey or the Unibomber. It includes high profile gang leaders who were worth billions of dollars and had the ability to conduct escapes out of a James Bond movie.

    Somehow none of those guys were murdered or committed suicide but Epstein did? No. I am not buying it. The BOP fucks over unknown people. They know how to handle a single high profile defendant.

    1. I cannot think of a federal prisoner who was left to die either, Tim McVeigh and Unabomber didnt want to kill themselves or they would have done it.

      McVeigh could have sat in the Ryder truck when it blew up.

      Ted Kaczynski could have killed himself when the FBI was approaching his shack in Montana.

      Convicts get super life sentences or the death penalty and nearly all don't commit suicide. Most let the state kill them or die from natural causes.

      1. Convicts get super life sentences or the death penalty and nearly all don’t commit suicide.

        That is also because the guards ensure they don't do it. Moreover, the mobsters often have the entire jail out to murder them. Yet, the BOP is able to protect them.

        The BOP is perfectly capable of keeping someone alive when it is important to them.

        1. John, we can round and round with you thinking guards do some job where they constantly watch prisoners and they simply dont. I cannot really convince you and you have never been to prison to know what really happens.

          Its one of the main reason there is violence in prisons. Prisoners attack each other even with guards around. Some prisoners attack guards.

          I would refer you to the BJS stats about serious violence and non-serious violence to other prisoners. The federal prison guards cannot be everywhere at all times. There is a prisoner to prison guard ratio.

          1. You continue to operate under the delusion that Epstein was just another prisoner. You are delusional. You have no idea how the federal Justice system works

            1. John. You have never been to prison.

              You really want Epstein to be some super prisoner but her wasnt. He was booked like everyone else and was housed like everyone else.

              Feel free to cite something to back up what you claim.you havent yet and your position is not convincing.

              1. Just a question, do you look as stupid as you sound?

      2. Kaczynski did try at least once to hang himself in his cell.

        1. So he's on lifetime suicide watch?

          Or there is some other reason that he has never tried again?

          1. It's quite common for people to try to commit suicide once and then not try again if they weren't successful. I don't know of anyone who was suicidal their whole life, just sitting around waiting for the moment they can get away with it.

            1. To paraphrase Seinfeld --- why not try again?

              All you've done is find SOMETHING ELSE you're not good at.

    2. I generally agree -- I don't think it was standard-issue BOP negligence here -- but even willful negligence doesn't mean Epstein's death was 100% BOP's fault. Either Epstein decided to kill himself, or someone else did, and whoever that was should get a share of the blame/credit.

    3. El Chapo was housed at MCC in 10South, and Britain refused extradition for several high-profile prisoners because of 'inhumane' conditions at MCC. https://gothamist.com/2018/06/19/mcc_jail_human_rights_torture.php

  13. Jeffrey Epstein is dead because he killed himself.


    He was murdered in a jail cell.

    You will never be able to stop convicts and pre-trial detainees who want to kill themselves.

    I am concerned that if this was a murder that jail officials will get away with this and all the other illegal stuff that they do.

    1. You will never be able to stop convicts and pre-trial detainees who want to kill themselves.

      Yes you can. You put a 24 hour watch on them. They do it all the time. No one kills themselves in prison unless the guards want them to do it or don't care.

      1. John, first of all there are not resources to watch a bunch of prisoners 24 hours a day.

        Even when the US Army had every single Nazi under 24 hours watch in Nuremberg, Goering got cyanide and killed himself.

        Even with cameras, the lights on, and someone watching the cameras 24 hours a day, people go to the bathroom and take their eyes off cameras for a few minutes.

        If Epstein was murdered that deserves investigation. Otherwise, determine cause of death and move on. There are thousands of other shady things going on in federal and state prisons that never get mentioned.

        Here's one: The government arrests people for minor crimes and puts them in the same cells as violent convicts.

        The government refuses to set non-excessive bail as guaranteed in the 8th Amendment.

        1. John, first of all there are not resources to watch a bunch of prisoners 24 hours a day.

          No there isn't. But Epstein isn't every single prisoner. Some prisoners are important. And the BOP has no problem taking care of them.

          Even when the US Army had every single Nazi under 24 hours watch in Nuremberg, Goering got cyanide and killed himself.

          Georing was able to do that because he charmed his guard into letting someone smuggle the cyanide into the prison for him. Goering was able to commit suicide because the guards or guard let him.

          Even with cameras, the lights on, and someone watching the cameras 24 hours a day, people go to the bathroom and take their eyes off cameras for a few minutes.

          Sure but you can't hang yourself in a few minutes. The guard has to be intentionally negligent for that to happen.

          If Epstein was neglected in hopes he committed suicide, that is just as worthy of investigation as him being murdered.

          1. Epstein was not that special. Even if he was, then the government should have grabbed him and placed him in protective custody with immunity to testify against all the other people.

            The DOJ chose to indict him and arrest him. The victims could have sued him and got some money, then the DOJ indict him. This strategy failed.

            People are left to rot in prison all the time. Epstein is no different. He was off suicide watch IIRC, so he was like anyone else in there awaiting trial. He was accused of sex crimes and those people are treated very badly on the convict hierarchy.

            I think you are confusing hanging oneself and asphixiating oneself. A person who is hanged usually dies quickly from a broken neck that severs the spinal cord from the brain function. Sometimes its not severed completely so they wiggled around until they run out of oxygen or their heart stops for various reasons. You cannot hang without some equipment.

            Asphixiation can take a while. It depends on how long you can remain alive with no additional oxygen getting into your lungs. You dont need equipment to die from asphixiation. Technically a person can hold their own breath until their brain no longer wakes them from a passout.

            1. Epstein was not that special. Even if he was, then the government should have grabbed him and placed him in protective custody with immunity to testify against all the other people.

              A convicted pedofile who was palling around with a former President, governor of New Mexico and about a million other important people "is not that special"? Come on. His death has caused an enormous amount damage to people's trust in the government and may allow some very important people to walk away. Come on.

              And yes, they could have put him into protective custody. They didn't and that is my point.

              People are left to rot in prison all the time. Epstein is no different. He was off suicide watch IIRC, so he was like anyone else in there awaiting trial. He was accused of sex crimes and those people are treated very badly on the convict hierarchy.

              Not important prisoners in high profile cases like Epstein are not left to die in prison all of the time. Moreover, as dark flame points out below, there has been one suicide in 40 years at the MCC before Epstein. So, no at least there people are not left to die in prison all of the time. You are just wrong there.

              A person who is hanged usually dies quickly from a broken neck that severs the spinal cord from the brain function.

              That is true. But they have to set up the apparatus to do that and that takes time and is not something a guard who is watching will miss.

              1. You are (1) assuming he would have been asked about those people (2) assuming that he would have talked about those people and (3) would not have been killed by some other inmate trying to extort millions from him for protection.

                Protective custody is filled with other dangerous and violent criminals who also need to be in protective custody from the general population. Protective custody is not some super safe place where one is always safe from violence.

                Bureau of Justice stats- mortality in correctional institutions
                Between 2001 and 2014, there were 50,785 prisoner deaths in state and federal prisons. The majority (45,640) of prisoner deaths occurred in state prisons.
                The number of suicides in state prisons increased 30% between 2013 and 2014 (from 192 to 249 deaths). Liver disease deaths, the third most common cause of death, declined 12% between 2013 and 2014 (from 354 to 313 deaths).

                1. You are (1) assuming he would have been asked about those people (2) assuming that he would have talked about those people and (3) would not have been killed by some other inmate trying to extort millions from him for protection.

                  I am not assuming any of that. Epstein's connections made the case high profile. His dying before trial is a very big deal and is fodder for conspiracy theories and people losing faith in the government. All of that is true regardless of what he said or did at trial. You completely missing the point here. You can't sit here and claim "Epstein wasn't special". That is absurd. You have lost that argument badly.

                  Between 2001 and 2014, there were 50,785 prisoner deaths in state and federal prisons. The majority (45,640) of prisoner deaths occurred in state prisons.
                  The number of suicides in state prisons increased 30% between 2013 and 2014 (from 192 to 249 deaths).

                  We are talking about a federal prison here. You just proved my point. The BOP can keep people from committing suicide when they want to. I will say it again, the MCC had one suicide in 40 years before Epstein.

                  What the hell is wrong with you.

                  1. Okay, John, what is a "special defendant"? How is this defendant deserving of more resources and attention than other "high profile" defendants. Or more deserving of suicidal defendants. Or more deserving than all the mentally ill defendants?

                    You have not cited the MCC stat John. I could not find any suicide state on federal prisoners even though the DOJ has all sorts of stats on state and local jails. That might be because the federal system has few suicides. I dont know. I do know that the federal system has had suicides and so have state and local jails.

                    I do know that it is laughable to say that Epstein could not have killed himself.

                    I know you want to say that Epstein was "special" because he could have taken down whomever. There are hundreds of defendants and prisoners who have even better info. They know where bodies are buried, money buried, what co-conspirators did.... Epstein was a super rich (evidently hes not super rich since the US Gov has a hold on all his assets) who might have info on Bill Clinton and other people and MIGHT be cooperative.

                    1. Could Epstein have killed himelf? Yes. Is it remotely probable that using the lean forward technique with bedsheets tied to his bed that he managed to fracture multiple bones in his neck including the hyoid doing so? No, no it is not.

                    2. It is possible that Epstein killed himself.
                      It is likelier that he was killed by someone else.

                    3. There are reasons for his murder and reasons for his suicide.

                      Making a claim of murder requires evidence.

                      If the cells had cement or steel bunks, Epstein could have Smashed his throat against the edge of the bed and asphyxiated himself, breaking bones in his throat.

                      Epstein could done a header off the top bunk to die.

                      Epstein could have done himself in a million different ways.

                    4. Just shut up.

                      There are not 4 people here who agree with you, probably not 4 who don't think you are a full on idiot to keep attempting to debate this.

                      John is right, and you are wrong. Wrong to the point of absurdity.

                  2. Yeah, Epstein was almost certainly going to rat out a lot of VIPs in exchange for a deal. And he was almost certainly murdered for it. That a super high profile prisoner like him would die under such a confluence of events is a hit, lure and simple.

                    Sometimes the conspiracy isn’t just a theory.

                    1. That might be but you have to have evidence.

                      Right now the story is Epstein offed himself.

                    2. That’s true. It doesn’t pass the smell test, but thus far there is no available hard evidence to the contrary. Although it seems the more Information that comes out makes the suicide story less believable.

            2. "Epstein was not that special."

              You are a fucking moron.

              1. Why was he special, dipshit new troll?

                1. John just now explained it to you at great length.

                  1. Poor O=[]. The dedicated troll.

                    1. It seems that every single person here other than you is a troll.

                      You know what they say about how if you encounter one asshole, you've encountered an asshole, but if all you do is encounter assholes all the time, maybe it's not the other people?

                    2. Nope. YOU are a troll though.

                      We all know who the trolls are and you're one.

                      Even funnier is that you completely act the part. You don't even try not to appear as a troll. Haha. That is truly hilarious.

                    3. Nope. YOU are a troll though.

                      I expected nothing less from you.

                      *hands LC1789 a cracker*

                    4. Poor []=0

                      Hands him a cookie and tissue.

                2. lol my account is *much* older than yours

                  1. Haha. Okay. I see you join date as 0 BCE.

                    1. You do know that there is no zero CE right?

                      It begins with year one day one.

            3. Technically a person can hold their own breath until their brain no longer wakes them from a passout.

              Technically, you can't. Breathing is an automatic function and as soon as you are unable to keep it from happening, it starts again. You would pass out long before your brain died but you would take a breath before even passing out. If it were true that you could kill yourself by holding your breath, kids would be dead all over the place from throwing tantrums.

        2. but they only had one guy to watch, not a bunch. This was the most high profile prisoner in America, and as John says, the BOP does know how to ensure those sorts of folks survive. Also, as I mentioned above, that facility only had 1 suicide in the last 40 years, it is highly suspicious that THIS person of all people is the one to break that trend. Combined again with the injuries he took during his death (these aren't theories, both are sourced above), and the actions of the facility's personnel, it's not crazy to consider murder to be more likely than suicide... especially with all the dirt he had on people. I expect more stuff like the painting of Bill Clinton in a dress to come out of his house with time.

          1. What about all the other pre-trial detainees who need to be watched 24/7?

            1. What about them? One suicide in 40 years is pretty strong evidence that they can keep people from committing suicide if they want to.

              1. Or like on the outside, most people are too scared or dont want to kill themselves.

                1. So your position is that no one at the MCC ever was suicidal? Sorry but I find that very unlikely.

                  1. That is not my position.

                    My position is that some prisoners get suicidal and some dedicated prisoners commit suicide.

                    If someone is dedicated to commit suicide there is nothing the government can do to stop it. The government can prevent some attempted or contemplated suicides with various techniques.

                    In prison, you can pay a lifer to kill you.

                    There is nothing the government can do to stop a person simply giving up life by stopping to eat and breathing until they die. People do not have good survival rates on forced feeding and respirators where the person wants to die.

                    Most people dont want to die a slow agonizing death so they take the quick way out or wait until they can.

                    Epstein would have likely been convicted and never gotten out. Why not commit suicide? You protect your assets and technically you were never convicted of the crimes, if you are worried about legacy.

                    1. You cannot stop breathing until you die! Beyond that, most people who are suicidal at some point, stop being suicidal. Even people with severe depression don't go around all the time wanting to kill themselves. Usually, there are triggers. For a person just arrested, that may be a trigger until they settle into the new situation.

                      Also, you can always stop someone from committing suicide on jail if you know that they are planning on it. That's why they have suicide watches with regular psych evaluations. That's why they are put in special cells, watched continuously and have a cellmate.

                    2. Epstein had no legacy.

                      He never married nor had any children so far as we know.

                      He had no reason to protect any assets left.

                2. Given that so many overruled people won’t the reach to kill him in prison had motive to do so, it is ridiculous that any one of the failures of his jailers took place. Let alone all of them simultaneously.

                  I think it more likely that I win Powerball while simultaneously being struck by lightning.

          2. El Chapo was held at MCC and not only didn't he die, he lived to complain about MCC.

      2. Marshall Project

        Here is a non-profit that covers criminal justice related issues, including deaths in jail and prison.

    2. 1789...In either of your scenarios, I feel justice has been done. A pedophile is now starting to rot away.

      1. That is kind of my point. Prison suicide saves taxpayers money.

        Pre-trial detainees should not be in jail awaiting trial anyways. The 8th Amendment guarantees non-excessive bail to every defendant.

        Epstein should have been on bail awaiting these charges.

      2. I give a fuck about Epstein. The problem here is that it will be a lot harder to get the Clintons and all the other people that were in on his Pedo Island scheme.

        1. I agree. Epstein is getting too much attention.

          If Hillary was not being indicted for the mishandling of classified information, shes not going to be touched.

    3. You will never be able to stop convicts and pre-trial detainees who want to kill themselves.

      Sure you can.

      Strap them to a bed. Done.

      1. Mental hospitals deal with suicidal patients every day.

        1. You are mentioning mental sick people who try suicide and fail or who say that they want to commit suicide. They get locked up involuntarily. Average people who try suicide and fail, dont get locked up forever.

          What about the millions of people who have committed suicide. They wanted to and were successful? The state could not stop them.

          I know you are upset that Epstein killed himself (or was murdered). There is no evidence that he would have cooperated to take down others. He didn't with the Florida charges and he didnt while he was free for 10 years.

      2. Of course that takes care of inmates who refuse to eat and breath.

        Most people dont have the will power to break the system like that and refuse to cooperate with the criminal justice system ever for any reason.

        You cannot put someone on trial who is in a coma. Not in the USA anyway.

      3. He could be kept under light sedation, and restrained most of the time.

        Not practical for everyone, but doable in small numbers.

        1. Courts and lawyers might have a cruel and unusual punishment claim under the 8th Amendment on that one.

          As ypu said, it cant be done for everyone, so its unusual and keeping someone in a catatonic state is cruel in my book.

          1. Not so much catatonic as ‘relaxed’. Like under a light does of Thorazine. Like in a mental institution.

  14. http://weather.com/science/environment/video/major-american-city-bans-drive-thrus
    Minneapolis has banned new drive through restaurants to appease the climate gods.

    1. less driveways to shovel

    2. I grew up in Minneapolis and it will always hold a special place in my heart, but it's ridiculously progressive for the Midwest. Like a mini-Chicago without the gangsters. They aren't really incentivized by greed. It's more like a shared mental disability.

      1. They don't have gangsters but they do have Somalis. So there is that.

  15. http://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1162001040415363073.html?

    Speaking of conspiracy theories, remember when all of those paranoid right wing knuckle dragers were claiming that Hillary's home brew server was almost certainly compromised by foreign intelligence services. I mean only some deplorable nut could beleive that right?

    Turns out, the nuts were right as they often seem to be these days.

    Jeannette McMillian, an attorney for the intelligence community inspector general (ICIG), told Congress that this email with the name of a Chinese company appeared to serve as a "live dropbox" for all of Clinton's emails.

    The Chinese were likely reading them before she did.

    1. The Chinese were likely reading them before she did.

      They probably even knew what the letter 'c' meant.

  16. He's also dead because he didn't have the good sense to make a sworn affidavit naming _everything_ he arranged for every person of power and then hiding copies of it with a handful of lawyers with instructions to release it on the event of his suspicious death.

    1. This is the one thing that makes me seriously entertain the body switch theory, as crazy as it sounds. As much of an idiot as Epstein was I just feel like he would have had an insurance policy set up somehow.

    2. If I were that guy I would have had ten packets of that information, plus hard evidence distributed to multiple trusted sources so my enemies could never be sure if they got to everyone.

      1. So you think he would have kept evidence of the crimes he was involved in and handed them out just in case?

  17. The owner of the Lolita Express is dead for one reason only. He ran afoul of the Klinton Krime Kartel and as has been amply demonstrated in the past, that Kartel has a long reach indeed.

    Ex-Director Cummy has been reliably reported to have said "I wanted to indict her but I was afraid I would commit suicide."

  18. No, he's dead because he trafficked in minors, finally got caught, couldn't handle it, and killed himself. No sympathy here - this is all his responsibility.

    1. It is not about sympathy for Epstein. It is about the public being deprived of justice and the truth whatever it is by the incompetence or more likely malfeasance of the BOP.

      1. The federal government could have gave Epstein non-excessive bail in accordance with the 8th Amendment and taken him to trial.

        They set it up so he would never get out and he likely committed suicide as a last fuck you.

    2. he trafficked in minors, finally got caught, couldn’t handle it, and killed himself

      He didn't finally get caught - he got caught fifteen years ago and got off scott free. Why would he think anything would be different this time?

      1. Because this time he was actually in jail like a regular person?

  19. So, a Bureau formed in 1930. It’s culture and traditions would have been formed during the administrations of FDR, so I expect we have another government clustergrope to thank that sonofabitch for.

    1. The bureau was formed well before FDR. It was under FDR that its size and jurisdiction was expanded to what we know today.

      1. The founder of the FBI was Attorney General Charles Bonaparte who by a strange miracle (considering his family) was *not* a megalomaniac empire-builder -


  20. Jeffrey Epstein is dead because he knew too much about the lifestyles of the psychopathic pedophiles who rule over us.

    1. Or the money. Or both.

    2. There's definitely more to this saga and story.

  21. I'm shocked it took Reason this long to get the "prison system bad" article up!

    Listen, Epstein didn't die due to an incompetent prison system, he died due to an evil political elite.

  22. Why is Nouveau Vox trying so desperately to convince readers that this case merits little attention other than ''just a procedural fuckup; move along now."
    You're not every trying at this point. Just fold this fucking rag already.

    1. One word: Dalmia.

  23. LoveConstitution1789 actually makes other readers stupid for having read his drivel. This site was fallen so far.

    1. Poor troll.

      Trolls hate Libertarianism which is why they follow me around.

  24. Accountability becomes a possibility when the dead was wealthy.

  25. This hyoid bone stuff is true. I learned all about it in Norman Mailer's American Dream, where a dead wife's broken hyoid bone spelled trouble for the protagonist.

  26. 1) You are the highest profile rich person that egregiously offered his underage girls to the elite rank and file, the rich, the famous, the politician, the royalty, the sports figures, etc. YOU HAVE A TROVE OF INFORMATION TO SHARE - CHECK
    2) You finally go to jail for overdoing what was already known about you, for which you were previously accused, but only received a slap on the wrist back in the day - CHECK
    3) You suffer some 'injury' and are placed on a suicide watch - CHECK
    4) Then you are taken off suicide watch, your cell mate is moved the day before, both guards fall asleep, the camera malfunctions AND YOU ARE FOUND DEAD - PRICELESS!

    There are suicides and there are incompetent government prisons, for every thing else there's a Clinton body-tag waiting to be placed around someone else's big toe.

  27. It's like BOP never watched The Shawshank Redemption.

    1. I wish that I could tell you Epstein was muredered. i wish I could you that.....

  28. "Jeffrey Epstein is dead because his jailers neglected him"

    Sure, go with that.
    Or, and I'm just spitballing here, he's dead because he was extremely dangerous to a lot of powerful people within government and they desired that he be silenced.
    But your version is a possibility...

  29. No!
    Epstein is dead because the prison guards allowed someone to walk into his cell and physically break his neck. The evidence is certainly pointing toward Epstein being murdered.

  30. The guards aren't the only ones not losing sleep over a dead kid diddler.

  31. Interesting article that makes a lot of sense. One quibble though. A lot of people want union jobs and committing a crime shouldn't help anyone get one.

  32. This is enoug for me to Earn money at home on laptop ,Just work on laptop 4 to 6 hour par day and Make 50 Dollar Easily This is very nyc for me and my family…..

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  33. Epstein's last words, "The Clinton's did it".

  34. I work in a state correctional facility and have for over 10 years. This kind of suicide is very common. I have seen at least three with my own eyes. If you tie the bedsheet tight around your neck and to the top bunk frame, then roll off the bunk, it will absolutely snap your neck.

    I have seen an inmate hang himself with an IV tube by wrapping it around his neck then bending his knee and wrapping it around his foot. When extended, his foot tightened it enough to strangle him. Didn't break his neck, but killed him dead. I have seen two inmates hang themselves off a top bunk with a bedsheet. When you're on 15 minute watch (a common suicide watch), you can still kill yourself in less than 5 minutes. Inmate suicide is the leading cause of death in most prisons, and inmates who want to die will find a way.

  35. Why even write a piece like this? Suicide, murdered, he is dead. End of story.

  36. And, in a further development, while the Medical Examiner was on a lunch break, Epstein cremated himself.

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