Immigration

Turning America Into a Fortress Will Usher in, Not Repel, Fascism

David Frum's warning is just hysteria-mongering.

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ICE
lucy nicholson reuters via newscom

There is a new breed of meta-alarmist conservative pundit that wants to dramatically slash immigration levels and double-down on border enforcement. Not because immigrants are per se detrimental for America, but because natives can't handle them.

National Review's Reihan Salam has written a whole book arguing that if America does not cut back on current levels of immigration—which are nearly half of Canada's and a third of Australia's on a per capita basis—it will court a racial civil war. He'd much rather meet America's labor needs through automation and outsourcing than immigration, never mind that those options might push down natives' wages much more. (I pointed out the problems in Salam's account here.)

Now, neoconservative-turned-#NeverTrumper David Frum has written nearly 8,000 words waxing apocalyptic about how a failure to cut immigration will result in—wait for it—fascism! The opposite is closer to the truth, given that to stop outsiders, a government inevitably has to crackdown on the insiders who want them here. Frum urges Democrats to abandon their admittedly new-found love for immigrants and go back to their restrictionist ways.

But Frum's arguments are based on politically simplistic and stunningly questionable premises, I note in The Week. Democrats should ignore them.

Go here to read the whole thing.

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  1. Click here to read the whole thing: Not a ferking chance

    1. +10 minutes of your life not wasted

    2. Reading is for cucks! You go, borderer.

      1. Narrator: this douche reveals below that he didn’t actually read the article. Also I am fucking his wife. Grudgingly.

    3. In this thread, chemjeff admits kicking his face in ( rhetorically) is not bad behavior.

  2. Huh. So we aren’t already fascist, but we can avoid turning fascist by importing as many people as possible. Gotcha

    1. Hey, just tell a large majority of the country to go fuck themselves and that the entire character of their country is going to be transformed and there is nothing they can do about it. Yeah, that ought to work out real well.

      Dalmia is awful.

      1. It’s true, though.

        1. Yes it is. And Dalmia is a nasty bigot you loathes the people in the very country who let her in. I don’t think she supports open borders as anything more than a means for her to take revenge on the evil Amercans she hates so much.

          1. “In fact, the more Republicans dig in on their restrictionism to court older, white voters, a shrinking share of the population, the more sense it’ll make for Democrats to make immigration-friendly policies which appeal to young and ethnic voters a major plank of their platform.”

            The Fact that she thinks only old white people think this way says it all

            1. Exactly. Nearly a 1/3rd of Hispanics voted for Trump. I guess those were all “old white Hispanics”

              Dalmia once wrote that Hispanics were going to “drop their paint brushes and stop doing drywall” and ensure Trump loses the election, because every Hispanic does some form of manual labor. Dalmia is the most racist writer in any mainstream publication on the internet.

              1. Dalmia once wrote that Hispanics were going to “drop their paint brushes and stop doing drywall” and ensure Trump loses the election, because every Hispanic does some form of manual labor.

                Yeah. I think her support for open borders waffles between vengeful hatred of evil Americans and relatively acknowledged and open enslavement of inferior races.

                1. “and open enslavement of inferior races”

                  The Caste System? You mean to suggest someone from a shithole country with a shithole culture brought those ideas along? Impossible

                  1. The Caste System?

                    Actually no.

                    You mean to suggest someone from a shithole country with a shithole culture brought those ideas along?

                    Worse. The shithole culture didn’t fundamentally inoculate her against slavery in any/all forms and at every corner the way ours does (or did or tried to).

                    More like someone who grew up with the Caste System realizing its full potential… unwittingly (maybe) recognizing how much more efficient and streamlined it could be if you implemented it along racial lines and without paying attention to borders.

                    1. Well, damn. That is worse

      2. That’s exactly what you’ve been doing.

        Put up a wall, end warrants, block-searches, mandatory ID, biometric tracking, internal borders and travel visas.

        You want to turn this place into a police state because you’re afraid the influx of illegals will turn this place into a police state.

        1. First of all, why is building a wall at the border making the place into a police state? How does that restrict anyone’s freedom except those who want to break the law? Second, “internal borders and travel visas.”, yeah that is totally what people who want to stop illegal immigration want.

          Come back when you are serious and want to debate something besides your imagination.

          1. 1. The wall isn’t built at the border.

            2. If you don’t want internal borders and travel visas and the whole panoply of the police state then you are simply not serious about wanting to end illegal immigration.

            1. You seem to be too stupid to understand the difference between “cut down on” and “end”

        2. “mandatory ID”

          LOL!! Hide your kids hide your wife! People think carrying ID is necessary to vote!

          1. Do you think the concept of mandatory ID is a joke?

            1. I think you are.

              And we all know you want to import child rapists.

            2. I know that you need an ID to do basically anything productive, that not having one isn’t a crime, and anyone too stupid to possess an ID will get no sympathy from me.

              1. Should it be mandatory?

                1. no

                2. The only time it’s mandatory is when you’re voluntarily representing yourself as a citizen

          2. How about carrying ID at all times? And being required to present it to government agents when demanded?

            1. I think you’re pathetically afraid of boogeymen.

            2. You mean sort of like a driver’s license? You gotta have it or spend some time at the po po station.

            3. Your ICE agent fear porn doesn’t interest me. But I’m sure it’ll be streaming soon on CNN After Dark

              1. Do you think there should be a mandatory national ID card? If so, how do you reconcile this with the Fourth Amendment?

                1. Voluntary representation of citizenship

                  1. So you do believe there ought to be a national ID card, just not mandatory. Like, say, a passport?

                2. also, for the love of god stop feeding the trolls.

        3. “you’re afraid the influx of illegals will turn this place into a police state.”

          And you were doing so well.

      3. the entire character of their country is going to be transformed

        The entire character of the country IS going to be transformed, one way or another. There is no option on the menu for “preserve the country in stasis”. So the only real question is, should the change that the country undergoes be directed by central planners in DC, or should it be directed by the free choices of free people?

        1. Interestingly, you pick a comment to respond to that espouses an argument no one in this thread actually made.

          1. Not interestingly, you’re still a troll. Now shoo.

            1. Or what jeff? You’ll bitch more?

              How many times do you have to fail before you get it?

              1. No please. Continue to demonstrate to the world what a pathetic loser you are.

                1. blah blah blah you want to import child rapists.

                  No one is surprised you’re salty about having that hung around your neck.

                  1. But it’s a lie, you know it’s a lie, you are only repeating a lie not because you think it’s true, but because it irritates me. Because you’re a pest. Which is the choice you’ve made, to play a role of a sad pest. It’s pathetic really.

                    1. I know you said you want to import child rapists.

                      We all saw it.

                    2. Prove it.

                    3. Why? Enough people saw it that you know they know you did it.

                    4. Prove it or admit you have no proof.

                    5. Or I will say we all saw it. And you’ll know I’m right.

                    6. Then it shouldn’t be hard to find. So, go find it.

                    7. I guess all the people who saw it and constantly hammer you for it will just have to decide for themselves!

                      Oh wait, they have…

            2. For those trying to keep score at home, here is the thread in which chemjeff clearly and repeatedly stated that child rapists should be allowed into the US as refugees:

              https://reason.com/blog/2019/02…..up#comment

        2. I mean you literally want to import child rapists. You actually typed those words.

          1. No I didn’t. Don’t believe the troll’s lies.

            1. “No I didn’t. ”

              “Don’t believe the troll’s lies.”

              So you’re saying you did? Lol.

              1. You’re the troll, remember?

                1. Lolololol I love when you don’t get it.

  3. Wait, you mean all that talk about just being concerned about “illegal immigration” and not wanting to reduce legal immigration from Trumpalos was pure bullshit? I am so shocked and startled.

    1. “Trumpalos ”

      “Now, neoconservative-turned-#NeverTrumper David Frum

      1. Anyone who opposes the Koch / Reason open borders agenda might as well be a Drumpf supporter. One white nationalist faction is as bad as any other.

    2. I don’t think Frum is the voice of any “Trumpalos”

      1. “Chipper Morning Wood|3.27.19 @ 3:00PM|#

        Reading is for cucks! “

        1. Eunuch can only dream of rising to cuck status.

          Tis a sad, sad existence

  4. “Turning America Into a Fortress Will Usher in, Not Repel, Fascism”

    Paranoid people aren’t necessarily delusional. Sometimes, they just fill in the blanks with their worst fears.

  5. some people see countries filled with folks who throw homosexuals off rooftops, engage in genital mutilation or think rape victims should be stoned to death, and think to themselves “America needs more of THOSE people.”

    1. In chemjeff’s defense he mostly wants to let in child rapists. I’m not going to speculate on his motives mate he’s just a really sleazy defense lawyer.

    2. Some people understand that building walls means that those walls can easily be repurposed to keeping people in as well as out.

      1. Yes we are aware you have stupid phobias.

      2. Wait, Reazun has been telling me for months that the wall won’t keep anyone out, but now you want me to believe it will keep people in? Which is it?

  6. Could someone point me to the Shikha articles about cutting the welfare state?

    “And he grudgingly accepts that immigrants might be a net economic boon, though he disputes the extent of their fiscal contributions.”

    So does everyone with a brain, seeing how first and second generation immigrants cost the taxpayers thousands per year each.

    1. ‘Second generation immigrants’ – you mean American citizens?

      1. I do. And they do

  7. The fastest way to invite fascism is to promote policies so idiotic they make the fascist look like the most reasonable guy in the room. You’re not helping.

    1. Exactly. If reasonable voices are not heard they will be replaced by unreasonable ones. All hateful dingbats like Dalmia accomplish is to make truthtellers out of the alt right. If it wasn’t so obvious that she really is as hateful and stupid as she seems to be, you would almost think that she is false flag operation for the alt right.

      1. I meet and deal with lots of immigrants. If any of them were like Shikha, I probably wouldn’t like them much as a group

      2. You ‘reasonable’ guys got us e-Verify. Got us the 100 mile border exception. Got us the ‘within 25 miles of the border immigration enforcement can do whatever they want on private property’ exemption.

        You sound like the gun banners.

        https://tinyurl.com/ybzsvsah

        I want my fucking cake back.

      3. You ‘reasonable’ guys got us e-Verify. Got us the 100 mile border exception. Got us the ‘within 25 miles of the border immigration enforcement can do whatever they want on private property’ exemption.

        You sound like the gun banners.

        https://tinyurl.com/ybzsvsah

        I want my fucking cake back.

        1. “You ‘reasonable’ guys got us e-Verify. ”

          Oh it is ADORABLE that you think that.

  8. What?! For months I’ve been holding David Frum up as an example of a decent, patriotic conservative due to his criticism of Drumpf. Now I learn he opposes the Koch / Reason immigration agenda???? Oh wow, I feel silly. Disregard everything positive I said about him.

    At least there’s still Jennifer Rubin, Max Boot, and Bill Kristol.

    #LibertariansForABetterGOP
    #PutTheNeoconsBackInCharge
    #(NotDavidFrumThough)
    #(HesAWhiteNationalist)

    1. You’re really wasting your time on a Dalmia post, she is a much better parodist than you.

  9. you had me at David Frum. He’s a moron.

    1. Well, yeah.. There is no denying that. But sadly even the biggest morons occasionally have a point.

      1. You know what he isn’t though?

        A Trumpalo. Lol.

        1. It is always good to have the level of the conversation raised by the use of such high minded words like “Trumpalo.”

          1. Tell me about it. They use the word, then expect not to look like a deranged ex-girlfriend. I, as a total troll, have no problem admitting what I am. Meanwhile the “Trumpalo” tossers and “Trumpista” twats act like they should be recieving serious attention instead of Psychiatric attention.

            1. I don’t consider myself a troll. I am just a garden variety asshole with no patience for stupidity and even less for virtue signaling.

              1. In all seriousness, how can someone who uses the word “Trumpalo” to describe a person they disagree with expect anything but mockery and derision?

                1. Someone who lives in a bubble. Hell journalists use the term. Jim Treacher who writes at PJ Media can’t write a single collumn without using that or a similar term. They seem completely unaware of how big of an asshole they are making themselves look like.

                2. how can someone who uses the word “Trumpalo” to describe a person they disagree with expect anything but mockery and derision?

                  I know, right? Kind of like using the term “progtard”.

                  1. He admits he’s a troll. You pretend (extremely cringily) to not be a troll. You can’t whatabout an admitted troll.

    2. It takes Shikha to make him look good

  10. But Frum’s arguments are based on politically simplistic and stunningly questionable premises

    How can you tell? Seems to me that’s journalism SOP these days.

    1. Dalmia writing that is more proof there is no such thing as peak irony.

  11. As though if David Frum has ever been wrong before.

    1. But you’d still fuck him right?

      God when you try to be serious it’s trite and boring, I can see now why you elected to be the gross “fuck anything” guy.

        1. You should embrace being the gross “fuck anything guy”. Its a good role for you Crusty. Everyone needs a role and that is yours.

          1. What’s my role, chopped liver?

          2. Crusty has embraced the role. He’s just salty that I pointed out how it was handed down to him from a half dozen other far more interesting commenters.

            And from being covered in man fluid.

            1. I miss Episiarch. He was a mysentrope but was still an interesting guy. Fluffy was an interesting guy before Trump took his soul and drove him mad.

              1. Epi went full, completely boring “DON’T COLLECTIVIZE” to the point of comedy at the end of his run. He sneaks back from time to time and trolls I’m pretty sure.

              2. Agile Cyborg prose

                1. It’s like unicorn tears made out of pure LSD.

  12. National Review’s Reihan Salam

    White privilege.

    1. His Neo-Caucasian ideology is to blame.

      1. How about his toxic masculinity?

        1. Add it to the list for the struggle-session.

  13. Shikha is sad because Mueller said Trump is not Putin’s puppet.

  14. Why can’t Shikha write an immigration column without resorting to silly hyperbole and absurd analogies? I actually agree with her immigration views more oft than not, but she’s like a walking, talking Poe’s Law.

    1. Exactly this. I always felt she got more heat than she deserved but she’s devolved into a caricature. She started to lose me when she flippantly referred to James Damore as “the memo bro”.

    1. It is AMAZING how quickly a police department can fulfill an FOIA when it’s their idea…

      1. He who “loses” evidence can also “find” it.

      2. hilarious.

    2. But those were supposed to be sealed. I guess the Chicago Police Department didn’t get the memo before releasing it. IF there is one thing that every state’s FOIA laws have in common, it is that law enforcement files are not releasable to the public. Somehow the Chicago police just mistakenly ignored that. That is funny as hell.

      1. The way I understand it, they released them before the sealing order was finalized. But the reporting on this has been… All over the place.

        1. Even without the sealing order, police files are exempt from FOIA laws. Police are very touchy about releasing their files and letting the public know all of their means and methods and such. They will release an accident report or something like that. But an entire criminal investigation report? No way in hell.

          1. You would know better than I would and probably better than the people reporting.

            1. I dunno. Not to diminish John’s expertise, but he’s a lawyer and this political situation clearly has little, if anything, to do with the law.

              1. The Police released it as revenge. That is pretty clear. But what is the DA going to do about it? If there is one group of people more priviliged and untouchable than Juisse baby it is the Chicago cops.

          2. Not all files – typically personnel records.

            Case dispositions do not have that level of protection.

    3. tl:dr

        1. If Jussie is truthful, then there are still 2 MAGA hat wearing white racists laughing because they got away with the hate crime of the century…

          1. then there are still 2 MAGA hat wearing white racists laughing because they got away with the hate crime of the century…

            Maybe not the hate crime of the century, but they got off scott free after hanging a noose around a black guy’s neck while Roger Sterling got banned from the NBA and had to sell the team.

        2. Appreciate ya

  15. My home is a fortress. I thought the walls would keep bad people out, but all they’ve done is turn me into a literal prisoner!!

    My life has been ruined by my inner hysteria-mongering. *puts head down and sobs*

    1. Each man his own Hitler

  16. Damn, man. When did the Reason comments section become such a sewer? I guess maybe when I was younger I didn’t notice it.

    Listen to these pricks cry about “the character of our country” and shit while they spew their bile anywhere they can. They’re just so damn afraid of brown people.

    1. Yeah, I am sure you are a long time reader first time caller.

      1. I got the same vibe.

        Almost like they think *this* persona is going to allow them to be a puppet and get away with it.

      2. Is that really so impossible? I’ve been lurking here for about seven years now and have rarely ever commented until recently. But then, as Rhayader said, the comment section was a much more interesting place back then. Now it’s just another internet cesspool, which is sad.

        1. Bring it back my man, say something refreshing. Bring in some healthy insight as to why the rest of the world wants to come here, and why this “cesspool” doesn’t get to have a say about it, despite paying for it all?

          1. You realize that the cesspool I was referring to is the Reason comment section, and not the United States, right? Because those are two different things.

              1. Who am I socking for? Can I be Last of the Shitlords? I’ll be Sparky if I have to, but I won’t be happy about it.

                  1. No seriously, who do you think I actually am? I’m interested to know. It’s like one of those dumb “Which Friends character are you?” quizzes.

                    I’ll give you one hint: I’m not Jesse Walker.

                    1. Aw, come on. You’re a self-admitted troll, you could at least play the part a bit better. You don’t even have the decency to call me a cuck? For shame.

                    2. You kinks are your business sockapottamus.

                    3. 3/10. Are you having an off day or something?

                    4. Oh my GOD ypu resorted to the out of 10 scale you somehow managed to get even more boring.

            1. The comment section shitposts on Shikha articles because the arguments in them are garbage. And she continues to dismiss half the country, the same way Hillary did, the same way all beltway liberals do. Anyone who doesn’t want open borders is a white nationalist who hates brown people. Anyone who thinks its a bad idea to invite the world with no plan to take care of them is a racist.

              And it goes on and on and on. The wealthiest civilization in the history of the world, and the only one Reason constantly attacks for protecting its sovereignty

              1. And she continues to dismiss half the country

                So? Why is this a problem per se? Don’t you “dismiss half the country” when you oppose gun control, or favor repealing ObamaCare, or oppose the welfare state?

                Why is “dismissing half the country” bad when they do it, but okay when you do it?

                1. Because I value the sovereignty of this country. I want it to continue to exist as a free society for the people who agree to the terms. I’m not advocating for some borderless utopia that will supposedly come about when all the white people die off.

                  I dismiss the idea that American’s don’t have the right to make decisions for the country

                  1. Who said anything about all the white people dying off?

                    I dismiss the idea that American’s don’t have the right to make decisions for the country

                    Should Americans, collectively, have the right to make decisions on how I may use my own property?

                    If the collective should have the right to tell me whom I may or may not hire, then why shouldn’t the have the right to tell me how many guns I may own, or what kind of car I may drive, or any other decision I might make on my own behalf?

    2. I guess maybe when I was younger I didn’t notice it.

      Maybe.

      Listen to these pricks cry about “the character of our country” and shit

      OK, your youthful naivete may get you a pass for your past ignorance or stupidity but, at some point, you’re going to have to own your ongoing display of stupidity.

      Nobody here was crying over the loss of ‘the character of the country’. They were pointing out that telling half the electorate to go fuck themselves is how you got Trump and how you will continue to get Trump.

      Pretending otherwise, is going to do more for your opposition’s cause than it is for yours.

    3. I never get tired of sockpuppeteers who don’t realize how dumb they sound calling the descendants of white European colonialists “brown people” lololo.

      1. My favorite is the blatant and open projection of fear onto the others.

    4. Make an argument or STFU

    5. I’ve been wondering the same thing lately. It was probably a gradual decline, but it seems to have really picked up in the last 6-12 months. The Glibertarian spin-off was probably the beginning of the end.

      1. Despite the nonsense you’re spewing, I agree. The forums were way better before the Koch brothers took over the magazine.

        1. preesh, man

          1. It made your socking slightly less boring.

        1. You are the wind beneath my wings

          1. And you’re a boring sickpuppet.

      2. wow you guys are so smart! and hung too!

        1. Jokes on you, I’m hung like a Boston terrier. Now who looks stupid?

            1. Hah! Good one, man!

              Alright, so I can’t be chemjeff. That’s good, we’re starting to narrow it down. Am I Agammemnon?

              1. “Alright, so I can’t be chemjeff”

                Of course you can socko.

                1. You yourself said that jeff AND I look stupid, implicitly admitting that we’re different people. And you were right! Now keep going!

                  Here’s another hint – I’m not Heroic Mulatto, although we actually did live in the same locale for a time…

                  1. Zzzzzoh sorry what wereypu saying? I dozed off because your socking was boring.

                    1. So boring that you keep replying? It’s okay, you don’t have to admit that you really do know that I’m not a sock (unlike the three socks you used earlier in this thread). You’ve made my point for me better than I ever could.

                      Now, before you go back to trolling chemjeff and just generally smearing your shit all over the walls of this once-interesting board, go ahead and have the last word. I know Internet Points are very important to you, so consider them a gift from me.

                  2. “implicitly admitting”

                    So not admitting. God man you’re even boring when you misuse words in a failed attempt to own people who have pointed out how boring you are.

      3. The few libertarians who are here suffer from low signal-to-noise ratio.

        The commenters here are basically a reflection of the age of Trump: addicted to drama and ‘pwning the libs’.

        Articles about serious issues like the national debt, will garner like 30 comments. Articles about stupid political celebrity nonsense, like Avenatti getting arrested, will get 200 comments, 90% of which are “schadenfreude baby!”

        If Shikha wrote an article like “Libertarians should support X because Democrats don’t support it”, then and only then would the commenters praise her.

        1. She wrote about the problem before. She’s just as guilty of the age of Trump

          Shikha knows the problem but ignores it to push an anti-white agenda

        2. How is it that the same people who agree with you on immigration also ignore the primary problem of the welfare state? Why is it that her article I just posted only shaming western countries? Why is it always anger directed toward white countries? What’s going on in these places that is so special that everyone wants to come here?

      4. I blame myself. But then again, I love sewers.

        1. As is your right. Mole people deserve all the same rights and privileges as the rest of us.

    6. Damn, man. When did the Reason comments section become such a sewer?

      Nobody actually reads Shikha’s articles, so the comments sections for them devolve into a more free-form conversation than those for articles by the other writers.

  17. Remember, not that long ago, when university administrators would cancel an upcoming talk by a conservative speaker, upon receiving threats that liberal student groups would disrupt the talk, possibly violently, and the consensus view around here was that the administrators were giving in to the heckler’s veto and betraying their supposed commitment to free speech?

    Seems like the same moral principle is at play here, just with higher stakes than a mere university speech.

    Why should we give in to the demands of the supposed fascists waiting in the wings to seize power, lest we enact their immigration agenda on their behalf, under threat of their violent response?

    Of all the reasons to have immigration control, this one by Frum has got to be one of the weaker reasons. It is naked fear mongering on top of implicitly rewarding threats of terroristic behavior by imaginary enemies waiting to destroy America.

    Appeals to naked force isn’t exactly a principled position to take.

    1. “Seems like the same moral principle is at play here, just with higher stakes than a mere university speech.”

      You don’t need to gild the lilly bro, we already know you’re an idiot.

      1. Whatever man. Now shoo.

        1. Or what jeff? You don’t like that pillory you. But you sit there like a fucking bitch and take it. So take it.

          And when it’s over you’ll still be a bloviating tiresome clown.

          And you want to import child rapists. Evety single person saw it.

          You have to eat that L forever.

          1. You exemplify the very principle that I discuss, with your trolling. You don’t have the power to force me to leave, so you engage in your harassment, trolling, and dirty tricks in order to try to get me to do on my own what you lack the power to force me to do.

            I’m not leaving, because I don’t believe in giving in to bullies like yourself.

            I have no power to stop you from acting like an asshole. And even if I did have the power, I am not sure if I would use it. Because I think the world needs to see how much of a loser asshole you really are. It really is pathetic to think that you have nothing better to do than to harass and troll complete strangers on the Internet.

            Now, shoo. You are nothing but a very annoying pest.

            1. Why would I WANT YOU TO LEAVE?

              I LOVE KICKING YOU.

              How fucking stupid are you?

              1. Whatever you think I am, you will always be nothing but a pathetic troll.

                1. Which is why you’re so bitchy. You hatw getting clowned by me, a pathetic troll.

                  Jeff, you seem EXCEPTIONALLY stupud so let me help you out.

                  chemjeff’s delicious tears|3.27.19 @ 3:42PM|#

                  Tell me about it. They use the word, then expect not to look like a deranged ex-girlfriend. I, as a total troll, have no problem admitting what I am

                  You are actually stupid enough to think you are insulting me by calling me something I called myself hours before you camein here to bitch and whine.

                  This is emblematic of your level of intellect and analysis.

                  Meanwhile, you also want to import child rapists. So you are an imbecile and a monster. I, as a troll, actually feel like I’m good here.

                  1. Oh I know, nothing can insult you, because you have no dignity nor self-esteem left to tarnish.

                    1. Absolutely true, as is the fact that you want to import child rapists.

                    2. Absolutely true

                      Which is ridiculous. No real person behaves like you do in real life. You have chosen to play a role of sad pathetic troll loser on these comment forums. Why?

                    3. Because kicking idiots like you who want to import child rapists is cathartic and relxaing.

                    4. I find that hard to believe. It’s demeaning and degrading. You’re literally broadcasting to the world that you are a pathetic nobody. For the sake of what? Irritating a complete stranger? You’ve given up all of your dignity for *that*?

                    5. You’re stupid I imagine that you find many things hard to believe. Watch here as I fail to care.

                      Meanwhile you want to import child rapists.

                    6. You derive joy from harassing me?

                    7. Fudk yes I do. And you compound it by being so pathetic and whiny about it.

                    8. So you enjoy annoying me and harassing me.

                      Do you enjoy annoying and harassing everyone else too?

                    9. What.
                      The.
                      Fuck.
                      Do.
                      You.
                      Think.
                      Troll.
                      Means.
                      Dumbass.

                    10. So you’re not just trolling and harassing and annoying me, you’re trolling and harassing and annoying everyone here. Do you think they deserve to be treated as poorly as you treat me?

                    11. OMFG ARE YOU ACTUALLY REALLY COMPLAINING ABOUT HOW I’M TREATING YOU?

                      AHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHA

                    12. Do you think everyone else here deserves to be annoyed by you continually hijacking discussions just so you can derive sick pleasure from harassing me?

                    13. Do you think everyone else here deserves to be annoyed by you continually hijacking discussions just so you can derive sick pleasure from harassing me?

                    14. I could give a fuck about “everyone else here” you affirmation seeking clown.

                      Stop trying to import child rapists.

                    15. Lool at that string of invective you fired off, and then remember you’re the clown who said

                      ” chemjeff radical individualist|3.27.19 @ 6:29PM|#

                      I am not surprised you justify your own bad behavior based on the bad behavior of others. Just don’t pretend it’s libertarian in any way.”

                      YOU CAN’T EVEN MAINTAIN A SHRED OF FUCKING CONSISTENCY YOU PATHETIC CHILD RAPIST IMPORTING FUCK!!

                      WATCH AS HE TRIES TO WRIGGLE OUT OF THAT! HE’LL TRY THOUGH, TRAPPED BY HIS OWN WORDS AS HE IS LOOKING FUCKING STUPID HAS NEVER STOPPED HIM BEFORE!!!

                    16. Oh that’s clever. Lie about what I say, and then pre-emptively accuse me of being inconsistent by challenging what is falsely presented as a true statement. Do they teach that trick at troll school?

                    17. They’re your words bro. You’re literally accusing me of lying about words people can see in this thread. You have litwrally no defense for hurling invective then whining like a bitch when it gets hurled back.

                      Now stop being a pathetic hypocrite who wants to import child rapists.

                    18. Do you think everyone else here deserves to be annoyed by you continually hijacking discussions just so you can derive sick pleasure from harassing me?

                    19. They’re big boys and girls jeff, they don’t need you to be their hypocritical child rapist importing white knight.

                      Now stop trying to import child rapists.

                    20. You’ll notice he completely ignores his own hypocrisy to white knight for people who think he’s a clown.

                    21. There’s another trick. Falsely assert that I’m a hypocrite on this issue, but focus the reader’s attention on the claim that I’m ignoring the supposed hypocrisy. You get two insults in for the price of one.

                    22. That is a clever trick. Maybe I will start using that.

                      “When will Tulpa stop lying about beating his wife?”

                    23. The invective is IN THIS THREAD.

                      “chemjeff radical individualist|3.27.19 @ 6:47PM|#

                      I find that hard to believe. It’s demeaning and degrading. You’re literally broadcasting to the world that you are a pathetic nobody.

                      while you also said

                      “chemjeff radical individualist|3.27.19 @ 6:29PM|#

                      I am not surprised you justify your own bad behavior based on the bad behavior of others. Just don’t pretend it’s libertarian in any way.”

                      Justify the invective without making yourself a hypocrite. I’ll wait.

                    24. Why should I justify anything to you? You would just lie about it anyway, just like you lie about me wanting to import child rapists.

                      I’ll let the readers decide for themselves whether “pathetic nobody” is invective, or a simple statement of fact.

                    25. “chemjeff radical individualist|3.27.19 @ 8:33PM|#

                      Why should I justify anything to you? ”

                      Ahahahahahhahaha

                      You CAN’T BITCH!! AND NOW EVERYONE KNOWS IT AND CAN SEE IT!!

                      I WIN YOU HYPOCRITICAL CHILD RAPIST IMPORTING FUCK!!

                    26. You won? What did you win?

                      How can a description of a “pathetic loser” be invective when it is an apt description of the role you play here?

                    27. “You won? What did you win?”

                      The satisfaction of kicking you around a lot.

                      And watching you paont yourself into a corner, and look stupid as fuck trying to deny it.

                    28. in?vec?tive
                      /in?vektiv/Submit
                      Learn to pronounce
                      noun
                      insulting, abusive, or highly critical language.

                      They’re not mutually exclusive dumbass!!!

                    29. And these are the types of rhetorical tricks that you play. Make false claims, but then direct the reader to another layer of false claims that just presumes the original claims are true.

                      “Why won’t Tulpa just fess up to his coke habit?”

                    30. “chemjeff radical individualist|3.27.19 @ 8:35PM|#

                      And these are the types of rhetorical tricks that you play”

                      HIS OWN WORDS ARE RHETORICAL TRICKS!!! AHAHAHAHHA HOW DARE I USE HIS WORDS AGAINST HIM!! AHAHAHHAAHHAAJ

                      The invective is IN THIS THREAD.

                      “chemjeff radical individualist|3.27.19 @ 6:47PM|#

                      I find that hard to believe. It’s demeaning and degrading. You’re literally broadcasting to the world that you are a pathetic nobody.”

                      while you also said

                      “chemjeff radical individualist|3.27.19 @ 6:29PM|#

                      I am not surprised you justify your own bad behavior based on the bad behavior of others. Just don’t pretend it’s libertarian in any way.”

                      You CAN’T ustify the invective without making yourself a hypocrite.

                      I WIN.

                    31. Oh oh oh – I almost fell for your little trick.

                      Who cares if it’s invective or not? That is the false standard you wish to impose on this discussion.

                      You think “invective” per se is “bad behavior”?

                    32. Wait, you don’t?

                      THEN WHY ARE YOU BITCHING AND CRYING ABOUT IT!!!

                      “chemjeff radical individualist|3.27.19 @ 7:36PM|#

                      So you’re not just trolling and harassing and annoying me, you’re trolling and harassing and annoying everyone here. Do you think they deserve to be treated as poorly as you treat me?

                      OH WAIT YOU DO THINK IT’S BAD BEHAVIOR!!

                      AHAHAHAHAHAJ I FUCKING TRAPPED YOU AND YOU KEEP STEPPING ON YOUR OWN ARGUMENTS!!

                    33. Yes it’s called asking a question. Do you think the others here at H&R deserve to be treated as poorly as you treat me?

                      Oh wait, you think I was saying that I was treating you poorly? Now you are just flat-out lying about what I said.

                      Which is not surprising, of course.

                      Oh oh – but maybe you’ll now say that claiming a troll is a liar is “not surprising” is now ‘invective’, when it’s actually de rigeur.

                      You play a character here of a loser. I mean it’s not you in real life, no real human being would be as sociopathic and cruel as the character than you play here. Is it to compensate for other problematic issues in your life?

                    34. You do that a lot. You dish out a lot of claims with just the presumption that they are all true, but direct the reader to the one singular claim that you want to focus on, that presumes all of those other claims are true, when they are not. I almost fell for it again.

                    35. “You do that a lot. You dish out a lot of claims with just the presumption that they are all true,”

                      NO BISH I JUST QUOTE YOUR OWN WORDS!!!

                      “”chemjeff radical individualist|3.27.19 @ 7:36PM|#

                      So you’re not just trolling and harassing and annoying me, you’re trolling and harassing and annoying everyone here. Do you think they deserve to be treated as poorly as you treat me?

                      AHAHAHAHAH YOU CAN’T EVEN KEEP YOUR SHIT STRAIGHT!!!

                    36. Ahahahah I “treat him poorly” but it isn’t bad behavior?

                      Ahahahaha ok HE SAID IT!!!

                    37. That’s right you fucking piece of trash, flee.

                    38. You realize that I have other things to do instead of harassing strangers on the Internet all day and all night.

                    39. Yes, you treat me poorly. Is this in dispute?
                      You are the one engaging in bad behavior, unapologetically.
                      Is that not in dispute?

                    40. Ahahahah I “treat him poorly” but it isn’t bad behavior?

                      Ahahahaha ok HE SAID IT!!!

                      Wow Jeff, what did you do to make this idiot so obsessed with you?

    2. Reciprocity is the basis of ethics. I guess you guys should have picked a higher stakes thing to act like fascist about. I mean it get it you assumed you could just keep bullying and using force to get your way and no one on the right would reciprocate. But you calculated wrong so lube up and think of libertopia.

      1. I am not surprised you justify your own bad behavior based on the bad behavior of others. Just don’t pretend it’s libertarian in any way.

        1. Bro you want to import child rapists you’re a fucking monster save that high road shit.

          1. Uh huh. Sure. Like we should believe the troll’s claims about me.

            1. You can link to the thread bro. We all see you failing to do so.

              Because we already saw it. And you know what it says.

              That you want to import child rapists.

              1. Perhaps you should be the one to prove your claim. Why don’t you provide a citation where I supposedly made the claim.

                1. We saw it. You’re the one protesting your innocence to the commenariat. I know what I saw. You’re the one desperately windmilling to avoid being tarred with your own child rapist importing words.

                  1. Okay, so prove your claim.

                    1. To who? You’re the one who cares what people think retard.

                      You want to import child rapists. And it’s the fact that you think you have a reputation beyond “fucking moron who gets laughed at” to protect tjat makes that such an effective cudgel.

                    2. So you can’t prove it. I didn’t think so.

                    3. Do you really think that’s goinv to make something we all saw go away?

                      Lol you’re even dumber that you looked whem you said you wanted to import child rapists.

                    4. Jeff won’t link to the thread because he knows what it says. I won’t link to it because I have nothing to prove to people who want to import child rapists.

                    5. If you are being truthful, then why won’t you prove your claim?

                      If as you say “everyone saw it”, then it shouldn’t be hard to find, right?

                    6. ?\_(?)_/? oh well!

                      I guess all the people who saw it and constantly hammer you over it will have to make up their own minds!

                    7. So you’re not just a troll, you’re also a liar. Isn’t that so?

                    8. I guess who saw it and constantly hammer you over it will have to make up their own minds!

                      Meanwhile, you want to import child rapists.

                    9. prove it.

                    10. I guess all the people who saw it and constantly hammer you over it will have to make up their own minds!

                    11. Once again prove it.
                      You can’t, because I didn’t say that, you *know* I didn’t say that, you admitted that your motivation here was just to harass and troll, no more no less, and until you produce proof, why should anyone believe you?

    3. We don’t cancel planned naturalization of citizens to placate those who protest immigration.

      An undocumented foreign national has no constitutional or human right to be treated as citizens in a sovereign nation. If immigration is reduced because the government bought into bad arguments, their rights are not violated. A college doesn’t have to accept a certain amount of students or even invite speakers. Once they do, they have an obligation to uphold their free speech and other rights.

      A dissenting argument that’s arguably wrong is not a “heckler’s veto”. Frum is presenting an argument in favor of reduced immigration and he might be floating overblown national security concerns. That’s not the same thing as him leading online or physical mobs to pressure the government to enact his policy. If the government accepts less immigrants because they’re afraid Frum’s pals might burn down buildings, then we’re halfway to Venezuela.

      1. If immigration is reduced because the government bought into bad arguments, their rights are not violated.

        It’s not a question of violating their rights. It’s a question of giving in to the demands of thugs.

        The two situations are not exactly analogous, but they do both demonstrate the same principle in play – that of thugs demanding action and threatening bad behavior if they don’t get their way. The correct solution is not to placate the thugs, in either way. If Frum or anyone thinks that real fascists are actually waiting in the wings to seize power and impose their will, then let them try. We shouldn’t be doing their jobs for them.

        1. “The two situations are not exactly analogous”

          Lol god dammit you’re dumb.

        2. “that of thugs demanding action and threatening bad behavior if they don’t get their way”

          Kinda like illegal immigration

          1. Oh Nardz, you never did answer my questions from earlier.

            When will you acknowledge MY property rights to do as I see fit with my own property?

            When will you and your collectivist ilk stop trying to infringe upon my right to use my property for the sake of your collectivist wet dreams?

            When will you finally realize that the war on illegal immigration – just like the war on drugs, the war on terror, etc. – is really a war *on citizens* to deprive them of liberty in order to stop an overhyped threat that is manipulated by demagogues to serve their own narrow interests?

            When will you finally wake up and stop licking the boot that is stomping on your neck?

            1. “Oh Nardz, you never did answer my questions from earlier.”

              It’s not like it would matter if he did, you’d just misrepresent what he said and then argue against your straw man.

              You act like we haven’t seen you a thousand times before.

              Now stop trying to import child rapists.

              1. How could I stop something that I’m not doing?

                  1. You want me to kill myself?

              2. It’s not like it would matter if he did,

                Do you think if I pester him and harass him and thread-stalk him and post the same questions to him over and over and over and over again, he might finally decide to answer the questions? What is your professional opinion on the matter?

                1. Do you think if you lie about how you’re an obvious hypocrite who wants to import child rapists that anyone will care?

                  1. Oh, so you’re going to harass and threadstalk me with two lies simultaneously?

                    Why not throw in some more lies? C’mon be creative. I know you can.

                    1. I thoroughly enjoy watching you fail to escape from your own words.

  18. “National Review’s Reihan Salam has written a whole book arguing that if America does not cut back on current levels of immigration?which are nearly half of Canada’s and a third of Australia’s on a per capita basis?it will court a racial civil war.”

    Isn’t this a bit misleading? Canada is as big as the United States (if not bigger) in terms of land size but have less people than the state of California. They have enough room for 20 million more people. As it is, you ain’t gonna live in Canada unless you meet their merit based criteria. Asians make up a majority of the nonwhite Canadian population, and they don’t even admit a lot of that group.

    Civil War is a loaded term and large scale bloodbath is unlikely in the modern era. But only America’s prosperity and stability prevents something like the LA riots from becoming more frequent. Many immigrants are actually fairly territorial. Last year Koreatown massively voted against a tiny expansion of the Little Bangladesh council because they feared encroachment on their turf. Asians are resented for the gentrification process.

    Immigration and diversity are products of a just society, they are not the end game. 40 million Mexicans can’t go to China and make it the next superpower. Period. We’re a nation in unsustainable debt and spend gazillions of dollars to address everyone else’s problems. I wouldn’t support arbitrary reductions in immigration but avoiding tough questions is pretty naive.

  19. Hey, just tell a large majority of the country to go fuck themselves and that the entire character of their country is going to be transformed and there is nothing they can do about it. Yeah, that ought to work out real well.

    Any Trump fans on here who are worried about immigrants transforming the “character of their country” should be more worried about the modern GOP’s utter abandonment of fiscal conservatism and small-government principles. The biggest single threat to our way of life is our $22 trillion (and counting) debt. You can’t pin that on immigration, legal or otherwise. You could shut the door on all immigration today, and the GOP would continue to work hand-in-hand with the Democrats to drive this country into financial ruin.

  20. I basically make about $6,000-$8,000 a month online. It’s enough to comfortably replace my old jobs income, especially considering I only work about 10-13 hours a week from home. I was amazed how easy it was after I tried it? http://www.home.jobs89.com

  21. Start working at home with Google! It’s by-far the best job I’ve had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474 this – 4 weeks past. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringing home at least $77 per hour. I work through this link, go to tech tab for work detail.
    >>>>>>>>>> http://www.GeoSalary.com

  22. Almost everyone agrees that some amount of immigration is too much, we shouldn’t have open borders, and that immigration policy should be designed to serve the best interests of the American citizenry current and future (just as all our government policy should be but often isn’t).

    And what is in the best interests of the American citizenry, current and future, is undoubtedly to reduce immigration at this juncture. This is true economically, politically, culturally, and in every other conceivable way. We should and will continue to be the world’s largest immigration destination and a country of immigrants! That is true even if we cut legal immigration by half. Of course, the more pressing issue is to end illegal immigration which is completely out of control with our crisis at the southern border. ICE had to release 24,000 illegal border jumpers into the US in just the last three weeks because the system is overwhelmed.

    1. The primary reason that there is so much vehement institutional and elite opposition to Trump is because of a support for open borders and massive amounts of immigration. This is part of an openly stated agenda (not secret) of voter replacement, globalist government, and eradication of US culture of liberty (no more gun rights, etc., got to change “English jurisprudential white mans culture” as Biden just said) in favor of something more appealing to the statists and cultural marxists.

      1. Imagine the invaders you’re picturing were coming from Canada. How would your opinion change or not change?

        1. Canada, unlike Mexico, is not a violent, impoverished shithole, so a rational immigration policy would of course treat potential Canadian immigrants differently from Mexicans.

  23. Frum is Canadian. Maybe he wants the immigrants to go help Canada prosper instead of the US.

  24. The fastest way to invite fascism is to promote policies so idiotic they make the fascist look like the most reasonable guy in the room. You’re not helping. https://www.moschinooutlets.com/

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