Paul Manafort Sentenced to Nearly Four Additional Years in Federal Prison Just as New York Files New Charges
Double jeopardy or a way of circumventing a potential Trump pardon? Or both?

Paul Manafort will serve a total of seven and a half years in federal prison for various tax frauds and lies he told to government officials, and it now looks like prosecutors in New York are looking to increase the tally with state charges.
U.S. District Judge Amy Berman Jackson on Wednesday added 43 months to Manafort's federal sentence. Last week's sentence covered multiple cases of bank and tax fraud. Today's sentence covered Manfort's lies to the Justice Department about his lobbying efforts in Ukraine, his failure to register as a foreign agent, money laundering, and witness tampering.
Almost immediately after Jackson handed down the rest of Manafort's sentence, Manhattan District Attorney Cy Vance announced 16 new charges against Manfort. Manafort stands accused of mortgage fraud, falsifying business records, and conspiracy, with Vance's office alleging that he profited millions off providing false information while applying for loans. These alleged crimes all took place between December 2015 and March 2016.
Because these are New York charges and not federal charges, that means President Donald Trump cannot pardon Manafort if he's convicted; which, intentional or not, gives this new indictment a feel of political motivation. Manafort is 69 years old and will spend most of his 70s in prison. There's very little justice to be served by extending that prison time even further. The New York Times reported that he faces up to an additional 25 years if convicted of state charges.
The Times notes that prosecutors had previously decided to move forward with this case regardless of whether Trump pardoned Manafort, and the paper predicts that Manafort's lawyers will argue it would count as double jeopardy to try him again in state court for the same crimes he was tried and convicted of in federal court.
Jacob Sullum noted last year that New York's Democratic attorney general is outraged at the idea that the president can use his power to pardon people she doesn't like (if the president in question is Donald Trump), and that she considers it a terrible legal "loophole" that Manafort couldn't be charged again for these same crimes by state prosecutors.
Read the details of the new indictments here.
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This sounds like bullshit. If they really are the same charges that is clearly double jeopardy.
It's obviously a political prosecution, much like this whole affair has been (still waiting on those fever dreams that were most assuredly real and not just stupid from the get go), but federalism allows states and the federal government to levy separate charges and I don't see that as a violation of double jeopardy. Dual sovereignty and the right of each sovereign to prosecute also allows for a check on the two governments. Much like what happened during the Civil Rights Era when criminals were being acquitted by state authorities, only to face consequences from federal charges.
Where actual double jeopardy conflicts with fake federalism, should not double jeopardy prevail?
Nevertheless, the constitution's grant of pardon power is not limited to federal crimes.
The people who really like federalism tend to also be the ones who want to dump it overboard when it doesn't achieve their desired results.
Examples?
Seattle is big on sanctuary city, pissed that rural sheriffs refuse to enforce the state's ban on sales of semiautomatic rifles to 18-20 year olds. Both teams are outraged at Federalism on one issue and cheering it on for the other, with Team Red calling for cutting all federal funds to the state until they comply on immigration and Team Blue calling for the BATF to enforce bs state laws.
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NY charged Manafort with mortgage fraud crimes, conspiracy relating to mortgage fraud, falsifying records relating to mortgage fraud.
Mortgages tend to fall under federal regulation since the process tends to cross state lines. (Lender is in one state and property is in another).
So the feds could likely charge Manafort with these same crimes but Mueller didnt.
It appears that the NY prosecution is not as slam dunk as the media would like.
Correct. Mortgage fraud usually involves wire transfer of funds, so that automatically puts it in federal territory.
Extraordinary measures are required to thwart Russian Meddling in our sacred democracy.
He didn't even send any yoga emails using a private server, and what else is a crime really?
"He didn't even send any yoga emails using a private server, and what else is a crime really?"
Do you keep trivializing that since you do not understand, or simply to show you're a fucking lefty ignoramus?
Trump keeps making it more and more trivial with his massive shocking daily crimes and outrages.
Let out the weed dealers. Lock up the traitors.
To be fair, you're not the only idiot who believed in Russia Fever Dreams. Most of the writers here and most "journalists" at major publications were also profoundly stupid and are still holding out for their myth to come true. I just want you to remember, though, it is your fault that you fell for such a stupid conspiracy theory propagated by the intelligence community intent on maintaining a new cold war with Russia. Your pee brain alone is to blame for you being so gullible
Yes I'm sure that's it. All the journalists and the US criminal justice system and Trump's own appointed special council are all being duped by the deep state. You don't sound retarded and paranoid at all. Definitely not grasping at straws to defend the worst political party on earth and it's buffoon leader.
Two congressional investigations , a special council investigation, and the entire resources of the corporate press have tried to prove something and yet have all failed to even prove the most basic of Russia Fever Dreams. Yup, I'm definitely the idiot, not the moron still clinging to a fairy tale
The investigation of the SC isn't done yet! And the House of Representatives only just got handed to people who are interested in whether the president is a world-class criminal and traitor.
Watch something other than FOX from time to time. It's good for you. You'll come to conversations without as much of a chance of embarrassing yourself.
"Tony|3.13.19 @ 3:50PM|#
The investigation of the SC isn't done yet! "
Lol what do I win.
Your brain is broken. Remember, its your own stupidity and blindness partisanship that made you a Russia Fever Dream Truther.
So what you're saying is that no matter what conclusion the special counsel reaches, you're not going to believe it. No matter who goes to prison, no matter what evidence is presented, no matter how clear it is, you're going to claim a conspiracy and believe whatever you want. I'm not the truther.
If the special counsel had anything there would be indictments related to that already. As it is, Mueller is just going to take his sweet time wrapping up his investigation until after the 2020 election (as it was always intended) and then we'll all forget about Russia Fever Dreams, because they already served their purpose.
Objection. Moronic speculation.
"Objection. Moronic speculation."
If that were a problem, shitbag, you'd be in real trouble.
Ok Tony, answer this for me. Pelosi just said it isn't worth it to impeach Trump. If Trump is really in thrall to Putin as she and all of you progs say, then it is her DUTY to make all efforts available to her under the constitution to remove him from office.
So which is it? It's not worth removing him, or he is under the control of a foreign power?
It can t be both.
He keeps saying " we have TRUMP. AND THIS PROVES IT!!" then when challenged to explain what "THIS" is and what it proves, goes back to "The investigation of the SC isn't done yet! "
But it's not done...
So present what you have.
Oh right, this is where we go to the "SC IS NOT DONE" recursion loop.
So because the investigation is incomplete, there's nothing to find. That's the argument you're making.
Not at all, actually. You keep saying that there is ample evidence, then defaulting to the "SC IS NOT DONE" recursion loop.
So present your evidence and stop pretending like you don't understand English.
I haven't presented any evidence. I have accused people of being traitors. I've also accused the president of being an idiot and a mental case. Do you need me to present my psychiatric credentials?
The US criminal justice system will do what it does. And if it does anything mean to Republicans, you'll call it a conspiracy, like an idiot.
"Tony|3.13.19 @ 4:14PM|#
I haven't presented any evidence"
Yes we all realize that, thank you again for agreeing with me and proving my point.
Now if you could just stop acting as if you have that would be great.
I'll make a deal. If Mueller exonerates Trump, I'll accept the conclusion without any whining or conspiracy theorizing. You do the same if he hands him his ass on a silver burger platter.
I'll make a better deal, stop saying stupid shit like
without a shred of evidence and I won't keep pointing out out stupid you are.
Except for all the evidence, you'd be right.
Stop getting all your information about the world from Tucker Carlson.
So PRESENT IT.
I'm thinking about things like Trump spawn meeting with Russians at Trump tower. Trump meeting with Russian agents in Oval Office with only Russian media present. Trump Tower Moscow. Trump Trump Trump Putin Peeing Hookers Trump Putin Russia.
The actual evidence may or may not be presented to us by Mueller or Congress. As is a perfectly legitimate thing to say, it's still forthcoming.
But the subject of this thread is Paul Manafort's many other crimes, isn't it? Again, how would you react if it were Hillary's campaign manager? Would you bend over backward to suck her dick too?
"I'm thinking about things like Trump spawn meeting with Russians at Trump tower. Trump meeting with Russian agents in Oval Office with only Russian media present. Trump Tower Moscow. Trump Trump Trump Putin Peeing Hookers Trump Putin Russia.
The actual evidence may or may not be presented to us by Mueller or Congress"
Lol, Thanks so much again for proving my point.
I asked for EVIDENCE.
I asked that you stop being a butt boy for the leaders of the US federal government on a libertarian website, but we can't always get what we want.
The classic Tony insult-dodge to distract from his failure to provide and evidence.
"Trump Trump Trump Putin Peeing Hookers Trump Putin Russia."
SO EVIDENCY!
"Stop getting all your information about the world from Tucker Carlson."
Isn't that exactly what I'm doing in asking YOU to enlighten me as to the depth and breadth of the evidence?
The dude ran a scam university, and that is just a drop in the bucket. Imagine it were Hillary. I just want to know if you're capable of that level of imagination.
"The dude ran a scam university, and that is just a drop in the bucket."
It's also no evidence of the things you keep accusing him of
"Imagine it were Hillary"
No Tony, I'm not going to engage in stupid whataboutism. Be better.
It's not whataboutism because Hillary didn't run a scam university. A $25 million dollar settlement over his scam university. How much evidence do you need? Beyond the possibility of any remote doubt? Is that why you're a global warming denier?
"It's not whataboutism because Hillary"
You could have stopped there. And no Hillary didn't run a scam university. She ran a scam server with top secret information on it. The FBI said so. She admitted it.
If you insist on continuing your denial of your whataboutism, I will continue to beat you with it.
"scam university"
Ok, because you're stupid. WHY DO YOU THINK ANYONE CARES THAT HE RAN A SCAM UNIVERSITY WHEN YOU'RE BEING ASKED TO SUPPORT YOUR ACCUSATIONS ABOUT HIM CONSPIRING WITH RUSSIA.
He probably got parkIng tickets in his past too. CONSPIRACY !! IT PROVES IT!!!
I am not on the special counsel team. I do not have the evidence. If it turns out Trump is pure as fresh snow according to the evidence, I'll concede it. He's still an idiot.
Now since you keep asking for evidence that nobody has access to yet, do you agree to concede to what the evidence finds, or are you going to be a hypocritical bitch about it if it hurts anyone with an (R) after his name? I bet I know!
And yet still you insist on saying stupid shit like
Throw in the towel Rock!! THROW IN THE GOD DAMNED TOWEL!!!!
Team Tony's plan is to wait until finished out his second term as President before they release any illegal activity by Trump.
Poor Tony doesn't know that when people accept settlements, no acceptable of liability is offered either.
Trump University is not legally at fault for anything.
Uh huh.
By the way, why didn't Paul Manafort cooperate with prosecution?
Make an effort to answer that in an intelligent way.
Poor Tony doesn't know the difference between criminal law and civil law.
Trump University lawsuit pipe dream- Civil Law
Manafort- Criminal law
So Trump paid $25 million to avoid the trouble of defending his totally legit university. This is a man who wouldn't even pay contractors.
Why didn't Manafort cooperate and get a lighter sentence?
If Trump does not pay contractors why do contractors do work for him?
If I was a contractor, I would not do work for a company if I knew that they had a history of not paying.
Maybe the media was not lying about things.
Why did Manafort cooperate for some time and then not cooperate and then get a "lighter sentence"?
They don't work for him. Banks don't even give him loans.
Just imagine he had a (D) after his name and all else was equal. Can you do that? You've expressed enough hysteria over minor infractions of Democrats, so just use a little imagination. The man is corrupt. At what point do you realize this and jump off the train and save whatever credibility you have left?
He didn't cooperate. He lied. That's part of why he's going to prison.
So what is the reason? Does he fear the Russian mafia more than prison, perhaps? Or was he promised a pardon from Trump for being loyal?
I can't think of another reason he'd be willing to be convicted when there was an option to get off lighter. Can you? Which one of these reasons is more evidence of corruption, would you guess?
"...Or was he promised a pardon from Trump for being loyal?..."
"Objection. Moronic speculation."
Is Tony admitting that Mueller has no case against Trump without Manafort making up some crime that Trump did?
Tony doesn't have any fucking idea what he is admitting
If Manfort didn't plead guilty, then he's guilty!
That's just Occam's Razor right there.
Tucker is a lot more accurate than. Media Matters, HuffPo, or CNN.
I haven't been keeping up. Has anybody in Trump's team been charged with collusion, or conspiracy with Russia? Isn't that what the SC was impaneled to investigate?
So far, it seems a bunch of people have been charged with lying to the FBI, in Flynn's case lying to the FBI about a non-crime.
In Manafort's case, he is convicted of crimes he committed before he worked for Trump. Manafort seems to be a complete sleaze ball, a typical swamp denizen. Ordinarily I would be relatively happy to see him in the stockade, but the out of control Democrats looking to undo the 2016 election, and damage our country immeasurably in the process, has me hoping that Trump will pardon him.
And yet, you have nothing.
You screech and pound your chest like a baboon in heat (this has always been your move) but when put to the task of proving your case
"You wait!!! Mueller's not done"
or
"Look at all of Trump's associates that have been charged and taken pleas (for process crimes that had nothing to do with Trump) !!!"
or some other stupidity that ignores the fact that many months after you instigated this charade and wasted innumerable hours and resources to make your case, THERE IS NO THERE THERE. Your BEST evidence is literally nothing.
But yeah, keep pounding your chest and pointing out that Obama was too dirty to prosecute someone for the same thing Trump has let his people go away for. That won't make it look like Trump is owning Obama ( and you!) on the integrity front. No sir.
If President Hillary Clinton's former campaign manager was being sent to prison for 10 years today, how would you react?
You people and your ridiculous, pathetic defenses of the Republican party at any cost, on what is ostensibly a libertarian forum, has reached a peak of embarrassing hysteria.
Deflect more.
Nothing you said there is anything but a defelction because you know I'm right.
I don't know, Tony Podesta was implicated in Manafort's scheme with the same laws being broken and yet he is not being brought up on charges. So weird how that works.
A refresher: http://www.cnn.com/2017/10/31/politic.....index.html
Trump is letting his people go down. Obama protected his people and other D's fiercely.
Who has more integrity Tones?
"Tony|3.13.19 @ 3:52PM|#
If President Hillary Clinton's former campaign manager"
So does this mean you are going to stop bitching when other people bring up Hillary?
Or is it ok to do it to deflect from uncomfortable truths about yourself?
Nobody on Hillary's team is going to prison. I picked the right team. You didn't. Sorry you have to indulge in so many pathetic excuses to deal with that.
"Tony|3.13.19 @ 4:05PM|#
Nobody on Hillary's team is going to prison. I picked the right team"
Thank you for agreeing with me and proving my point.
Lisa Page said FBI discussed charging Hillary Clinton with 'gross negligence' in 2016, and DOJ told them no
And Donald Trump conspired with Russians to rig the presidential election. I realize that's no work emails on a private account, but it's not nothing.
"And Donald Trump conspired with Russians to rig the presidential election"
And you keep saying this and things like this and when challenged to provide evidence give either
or
To rig the election how?
Oh Jesus you're going to get him looped again
'Work emails ona private account'........
Funny how you leave out all the damning details, which are all fully proven. You're like the leftist faggots that edit Gavin Mcginnes's Wikipedia entry saying he and the proufbkus nest up someone who threw a plastic bottle at them. Not mentioning the bottle was glass, and also filled with human urine.
That's how you go about framing things. Lies, distortions, and omissions.
You are an incredibly dishonest person. Which is a part of why I telll you to drink Drano
Poor Tony.
He does not even see why Mueller's independent investigation being legitimized by being left alone does not bode well for Hillary's staff.
Tony actually thinks that threats by Lefties prevented Trump from firing Mueller.
Desperate pleas from people on his own cabinet prevented him from firing Mueller.
Hey, isn't it almost bedtime in Moscow?
So no you're trading in gossip.
Tony believes his propaganda sources.
The media said Hillary would be president and he believes it!
Tony, will you feel the same way when Americans rise up and decide to get rid of you progressives? When that happens, I see you meeting a horrible, agonizing end.
Will you still think you picked the right team? How does that work for a sociopath like you?
If Trump wanted to pardon Manafort, don't Lefties realize that he likely would have done it already?
Not that Trump won't pardon Manafort but letting Manafort rot in jail for over a year is not really helping him.
You do know that Manafort worked with The Podesta Group, right?
You probably didn't know that, you don't know much, but the lack of the Podestas being prosecuted, or anyone else associated with The Clintons in the last 20 years, should show you how ridiculously partisan and political this whole thing really is.
You also know that Hillary's former law partners, the Clinton's former business partners, Bill's former Lt Gov and successor Gov, Bill's Agriculure Secretary and Commerce Secretary, and everyone else in their life were all crooks, right?
So in other words you can never be wrong about anything because you can always posit a political conspiracy. How convenient that must be.
We didn't need insight into your motives Tony.
the worst political party on earth
Come on, Tony, that's silly; get some perspective.
Even the Chinese communists aren't climate change deniers.
Tony is going to go to Communist China and demand that they institute the Green new Deal in 11...or else.
Bye bye Tony. Make sure to give them your next of kin.
"DENIERS!!!!!"
"We pronounce, judge, and declare, that you, the said Trump? have rendered yourself vehemently suspected by this Holy Office (DNC) of heresy, that is, of having believed and held the doctrine (which is false and contrary to the Holy and Divine Scriptures Science) that the sun is the major driver of climate variation in the world, and that anthropogenic sources only have a minor role, and that the CO2 is a beneficial gas, and is not the cause of doom."
So how come the planet is getting warmer as solar output is lower?
It isn't.
Yes I'm sure that's it. All the journalists and the US criminal justice system and Trump's own appointed special council are all being duped by the deep state.
Boom. Oh what? Russian bots were a false flag operation by New Knowledge? So NOW we don't believe the New York Times? or WaPo?
"pee brain"?
Nice Johnism. I larfed.
Do those traitors include Presidents that sold arms to ISIS?
The pardon power is not limited to federal crimes. The text does not provide that the President lacks the power to pardon state crimes. To the contrary, the text actually supports the pardon power to be plenary as the term, "offenses against the United States" provides.
Remember, at the time of the founding, the term "United States" was plural, prior to its post-Lincoln bastardization. Thus, "offenses against the United States" includes offenses against the people's republic of New York.
In what way could the president, as executive of the federal government, have the authority to usurp the sovereign authority of a state with its own executive that also holds the power to pardon?
1. The text. Had the framers and the ratifiers desired to limit the pardon power to just federal crimes, why didn't they so say? They didn't. Deal with the fact that at the time of the founding, "United States" meant each and every state as well as the confederation of them.
2. The vindication of the principles undergirding double jeopardy TRUMP federalism concerns.
The framers only intended for the Constitution to apply to the federal government so why would they ever think it would be necessary to speak specifically of federal authority when the whole document was only intended to be about the federal government? That's an endless loop
Who ever said it was perfectly logical, irrefutable masterpiece of consistency?
But, more to your point, how about the following?
1. Does the commerce clause apply to the states?
2. Does Article IV's guarantee of a republican government for all the states apply to New York? One of the principles of a republican government is that the vindication of the principles undergirding double jeopardy are paramount to vindicating a given sovereign's power to prosecute an individual who has been prosecuted for the same crimes elsewhere.
1. The commerce clause doesn't apply here and I would be weary about expanding the commerce clause.
2. This is a fair argument. But, I think it can be argued that a republican form of government does not necessary mean a singular judiciary system.
Is this politically motivated? Yes. But, I'm not agree that we should reconsider the whole basis of federalism because Manafort got a raw deal.
He got a very good deal from a judge who had expressed bias against the prosecution on multiple occasions. He got a middle-of-the-road deal today. What raw deal? It's that (R) after his name, isn't it? That sweet magical (R).
But the more crimes Republicans are convicted of the more the conspiracy against them is made clear!!
Tony thinks Manafort is getting special treatment from a judge that threw Manafort back in jail for violating his bail.
Maybe he shouldn't have violated his bail.
Manafort is indeed guilty of several crimes. So are a. Inch of democrats who were investigated and passed over for prosecution. There lies the problem.
Mueller, McCabe, Comey, etc. all belong in prison. So do The Podestas, the. Lintons, and pretty much every other democrat.
And Tony, I'm sure if you were investickose,y enough we could find a number of crimes for which you could be prosecuted. As you have no problem with political bias, it should be no big deal, right?
A poof like you would probably love prison anyhow.
14th Amendment changed almost everything relating to state resident rights and US Citizens' rights not overlapping. All states have to recognize most federal constitutional rights for their state residents.
All state residents have a US Constitutional right to avoid Double Jeopardy as per the 5th Amendment.
In other words, state Governors cannot pardon people in the federal system or other states. The President can pardon people in the federal system and likely in the state system if the charges overlap into federal laws.
New York officials are on the record stating that they are really only doing this to prevent some perceived Trump victory.
Furthermore, the NY state charges consist of mortgage fraud, conspiracy, and falsifying business records.
The People of the State of New York against Paul J. Manafort Jr.
Mortgages tend to fall under federal purview and the other charges seem to stem from mortgage fraud.
If I was a New Yorker, I would be pissed that my taxpayer money is being used to go after a guy already convicted and sentenced to 4+ years in prison.
Puerto Rico v. Sanchez Valle, 136 S. Ct. 1863 (2016)
Key points involve convictions for state and federal offense and New York's public statements about why they are charging Manafort at this time (politically motivated rather than based on some other reason)
So the president has more powers than we think he does because of federalism. This is a certainly a new one. (Maybe, I don't read the stupidest corners of the internet, only this place.)
Tony, can you read?
Neither Just Say'n nor I make that point.
His brain has been broken by the collapse of his fairy tale
But Mueller isn't done! We totally have Trump but I can't elucidate as to why or how and the SC ISN'T DONE!!!
Political ploy by local district attorneys in New York.
Trump can pardon Manafort for all federal crimes, even ones that he has not been charged with and move Manafort to Gitmo on the same day as the Presidential pardon comes thru.
Watch Lefty heads explode when Manafort can travel to some non-extradition country so NY cannot get him.
Are these state charges based on actual state acts? That is, truly separate crimes from which he was already charged in federal court?
If not, then the state courts should be prevented from bringing those charges under the double-jeopardy rule. The Supreme Court wrote a loophole into that principle by claiming that "separate sovereigns do not create double-jeopardy" but I think that case was wrongly decided. I understand the abuse they were trying to stop but the current rule is creating abuses every bit as bad or worse.
The charges stem from mortgage fraud.
As we all know, mortgages can be regulated by the federal government.
For some reason the DOJ did not bring mortgage fraud charges.
When do the Podestas face justice for the same crimes Manafort was convicted of? Must be any day now
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Looks like Cy Vance is eyeing a political future.
How is the Supreme Court doing with its double jeopardy case?
BTW, try this consideration:
Let's say Mueller has the smoking gun; the real thing. And sits on it for months and months?
Dereliction of duty!
*IF* the election was fraudulent, and Trump should not be in taht seat; the public has the right to know that immediately on discovery.
I'm guessing the gun he's found is a pea-shooter.
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