Russia Probe

Roger Stone Indictment Describes a Cover-Up of a Nonexistent Crime

The Trump adviser's legal problem is not what he did but what he said about what he did.

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Gary I. Rothstein / UPI /Newscom

Roger Stone, the self-described "dirty trickster" with a tattoo of Richard Nixon's head on his back, should appreciate the irony that he has been tripped up by the Watergate-era adage that "it's not the crime; it's the cover-up." Except in this case it looks like there was no crime to cover up, which makes the messy web of deceit described in the federal indictment against Stone seem like a trap he set for himself.

The indictment, obtained by Special Counsel Robert Mueller, charges Stone, a longtime adviser to Donald Trump who worked for the billionaire developer's campaign until August 2015, with one count of obstructing a proceeding (an investigation by the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence), five counts of making false statements during a 2017 HPSCI hearing, and one count of tampering with a witness by trying to dissuade a now-former friend from contradicting his congressional testimony. Those are all felonies, punishable by up to five years in prison for each of the first six counts and up to 20 for the seventh.

All of the allegedly criminal statements and communications relate to WikiLeaks' publication of emails stolen by Russian hackers from the Democratic National Committee and John Podesta, Hillary Clinton's campaign chairman, in 2016. The hacking itself was a crime, and if Mueller could show that people in the Trump campaign knew about it in advance, they could be implicated in that crime. Stone has repeatedly denied any such foreknowledge, and nothing in the indictment contradicts him on that point.

To the contrary, the emails and public statements quoted in the indictment paint Stone as eager to see whatever damaging information WikiLeaks had acquired about Clinton but hazy as to what it might be. The indictment does not allege that Stone had any direct contact with WikiLeaks, let alone the hackers. He comes across not as a criminal conspirator but as a self-promoter whose bullshit caught up with him.

In June and July 2016, nearly a year after he left the Trump campaign, Stone suggested in emails to campaign officials that he had inside knowledge of damaging Clinton-related documents that WikiLeaks was about to publish, and they seemed to take him seriously. That August he publicly claimed to be in touch with the organization's founder, Julian Assange, who then as now was holed up in Ecuador's London embassy. After WikiLeaks denied any direct communication with Stone, he said he had been in touch with an "intermediary," who at that point seems to have been Jerome Corsi, a conservative writer and conspiracy theorist. Later Stone also tried to get information about WikiLeaks' plans from Randy Credico, a radio host who interviewed Assange on August 25, 2016.

Much of the dissembling described in the indictment relates to Stone's claim that Credico was his only source of information about WikiLeaks' plans. Credico had privately warned Stone not to say that, since Stone's references to an "intermediary" predated Credico's interview with Assange. But Stone stuck to that story in his testimony to the HPSCI on September 26, 2017, and repeatedly urged Credico, who also was asked to testify, not to contradict him. Hence the witness tampering charge.

In addition to the Corsi/Credico switch, Stone is charged with falsely testifying that he had no emails in which he discussed Assange or WikiLeaks with third parties, that he never asked his intermediary to pass along messages to Assange, that the intermediary did not communicate with WikiLeaks by email or text message, and that he never told anyone in the Trump campaign about his conversations with the intermediary. Based on the testimony and emails quoted in the indictment, it is hard to see how Stone could claim his testimony was truthful, although a creative lawyer might discover wiggle room.

After the HPSCI asked Credico to testify in November 2017, the indictment says, Stone urged him to either back him up or exercise his Fifth Amendment right to remain silent. Credico ultimately declined to testify voluntarily and told the committee he would invoke the Fifth Amendment if required to appear by a subpoena. Why Stone did not do the same thing is not exactly clear, although apparently he worried that it would make Trump look bad by implying that his former adviser had done something criminal. "Because of tromp [sic] I could never get away with [asserting] my Fifth Amendment rights but you can," Stone wrote in a text message to Credico on December 1, 2017. "I guarantee you you are the one who gets indicted for perjury if you're stupid enough to testify."

Credico thought Stone had no one to blame but himself. "You should have just been honest with the house Intel committee," he wrote in an email last May. "You've opened yourself up to perjury charges like an idiot."

It is hard to argue with that assessment. Judging from the indictment, nothing Stone did in connection with WikiLeaks prior to his congressional testimony was illegal. That includes his communications with the Trump campaign, his suggestion that Corsi obtain emails related to the Clinton Foundation from Assange, and his queries to Corsi and Credico about the dirt that WikiLeaks had on Clinton. Even if Stone had actually obtained and shared purloined emails from WikiLeaks (as many news organizations eventually did), it would not have been a crime. Lying to a congressional committee about those noncriminal acts is another matter. Stone's problem, like Michael Flynn's, is not what he did but what he said about what he did.

Trump himself, given his penchant for prevarication, could fall into a similar trap if his lawyers let him. But two years after the investigation into Russian attempts to influence the presidential election began, we have not seen any real evidence of illegal collusion by the Trump campaign. It still looks like the cover-up is the only crime.

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  1. We are way out in the twilight zone here.

    Notice how the Democrats have managed to turn attention completely away from their unethical behavior, as discovered by Wikileaks?

    If the parties were reversed, the scandal would be about Republicans rigging their primary, and any effort to complain about how the information was obtained would be mocked as a pathetic attempt at deflection.

    1. Considering Hillary’s camp paid someone to us a foreign agent working with the FBI to gather information, including Russian information to be used to contest the election. I’d say your right.

      1. We have multiple people admitting to lying to the FBI or information found in direct contradiction to sworn statements with the Hillary case who were given immunity. It is insane.

        1. If the government does not correct itself. The public, at least the patriotic Americam part of the public, will have to correct the situation. Which will be messy.

          1. Yes. I’m not normally given to violence, but double standard legal systems are one of the main causes of civil wars. You can’t indict one person for non-crimes and ridicule anyone who points out your obvious myriad felonies (Hillary) for long. People will correct that one way or another.

            1. All-talk right-wing malcontents are among my favorite faux libertarian losers.

              1. Fuck off, Fudanshi.

              2. How adorable. Kirkland actually thinks his opinions and favorites matter. His very existence is the result of a defective condom. Euthanasia would work best and would’ve relatively painless.

                1. How adorable. Kirkland actually thinks his opinions and favorites matter.

                  My preferences govern your life, you half-educated rube. Thanks to more than a half-century of liberal-libertarian progress in America, you are obedient to my preferences every day. I don’t mind that you whine about it, so long as you are compliant.

                  Carry on, clinger.

                  1. > My preferences govern your life, you half-educated rube.

                    This is even more adorable. Kirkland is blissfully unaware that my parents and I have been transferring a legal amount of wealth annually to my kids and my sister’s as well. My dad is 75 and spent the last 20 years of his career as a GM at IBM, so he’s a multi-millionaire. The wealth transfers have put us below the limit for estate tax. Easy as pie.

                    I always chuckle when Kirkland talks about our “betters” having control over us. It’s so damn easy to outsmart the Rube Goldberg device that stupid progressives have created in the federal government.

              3. Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|1.26.19 @ 1:14PM|#
                “All-talk right-wing malcontents are among my favorite faux libertarian losers.”

                Half-educated, self-righteous assholes are among the worst losers; two years and counting, and you’re still whining, loser.

              4. Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|1.26.19 @ 1:14PM|#
                “All-talk right-wing malcontents are among my favorite faux libertarian losers.”

                Half-educated, self-righteous assholes are among the worst losers; two years and counting, and you’re still whining, loser.

            2. It may become the only option. Elections don’t even to mean much, and now we have so many communist sympathizers in this country. And they’re not just going to go away.

        2. Not to mention Brennan and Clapper’s bald faced lying about domestic surveillance/metadata collection. If they used this as a standard most people in DC would be behind bars.

          1. Both of them should be under indictment by now.

    2. Hillary literally paid a foreign spy to try and rig the election.

      How is that not what Mueller was appointed to investigate?

      1. Not to rig according to Steele in his testimony, to contest the election. And I would guess this was already happening when the debate question of will you accept the outcome was asked.

        1. “will you accept the outcome”

          That was an odd question. The wicked one was already plotting to destroy the US if she was not ordained. Mission accomplished.

      2. Since the document was being used in a FISA court, it suggests that the contesting of the election runs deep.

      3. With the cooperation of the DOJ and the FBI.

        Trump played it too safe. He should have immediately fired the top levels of DOJ and FBI and replaced them with justice and law enforcement from around the country.

        1. Hopefully that’s coming when this insane pseudo-coup reaches the end of the road.

          1. Trump will lash out eventually if this slow motion lawyer coup continues. Then half the country will back him until kingdom come and the other will be marching on the streets to get rid of him. Rather fucked situation we are stepping into.

            Se la vie.

            1. Maybe we will get the civil war we need. As there is no way forward in this country with so many rabid progressives trying to tear it all down.

              1. So long as you continue to obey the preferences of the liberal-libertarian mainstream, you (and other disaffected right-wing yahoos) get to engage in as much whimpering and silly bluster as you wish.

                Carry on, clingers.

                1. I have yet to experience a sighting of this “liberal-libertarian mainstream” of which Kirkland belches. It must be one of those elusive things like the Chevy Volt. You know – the car Kirkland and the other single-celled Obamabots told the more intelligent citizens was the “car America had to build?” Shockingly, they’re so scarce now, spotting them is like seeing a shooting star.

                2. Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|1.26.19 @ 1:16PM|#
                  “So long as you continue to obey the preferences of the liberal-libertarian mainstream,…”

                  We don’t care what you and OBL think, asshole.

                  1. What you think is irrelevant. Your obedient compliance with the rules established by your betters is all that matters.

                    Keep up the good, obsequious, work.

                    1. BEHOLD ,… a raging hissy between Kindergartners.
                      How low can they sink?

            2. Trump’s fundamental mistake was not “lashing out” on January 20th, 2017. He should have literally come to the podium with a list of people who were being fired, and read it off while the cover of the Bible was still warm from his hand.

              He didn’t apparently realize how far the deep state would go to resist him, and how much backing it would get from the GOP establishment.

    3. Yeh, it’s completely out of whack at this point.

      Reign Mueller in.

      1. Mueller, and all his fellow henchmen should be put in prison, at a minimum. Then Hillary should be indicted, as well as most of the DNC and their allies.

        1. Mueller has 17 indictments, convictions and guilty pleas .. including SIX top officials of the Trump campaign .. who ALL lied about Russian contacts .. both before and after Trumo took office

          Donald Junior KNOWINGLY conspired with the Russian government, KNOWING the Russian government wanted to help his dad win … PROOF as released to the public by ….. wait for it …. DONALD JUNIOR! … dumb as any other Trumptard.

          And THESE Trumptards KNOW what Mueller has … BEFORE Mueller releases it!!
          BWAAAA HAAAA

          Russian invitation to Donald Jr.
          “The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

          “This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump ? helped along by Aras and Emin”.
          Source: Donald Trump Jr’s own Twitter feed!!!

          LOCK THEM UP!

          Junior is undeniably guilty. Will his father allow his son to spend the rest of his life in prison. Is Trump THAT evil?

          Proof against Hillary? NONE
          And they VOTE!
          ROFLMAO

          1. Crap, yet another sock puppet?

  2. I’m just happy Mueller is finally earning his money.

    1. Tens of Millions of dollars to incarcerate process crimes is a good thong?

      1. Fucking autocorrect. Pick thing. I never type thong.

        1. You had a good thong going there.

        2. Thing a thong of thick tense. 🙂

      2. Hundred million in the Whitewater case. But yeah. They could repeal the lying to congress laws…but somehow I doubt that will happen.

        1. Whitewater included a dozen actual felony convictions related to fraud. It wasnt solely process crimes. Enron would be a better comparison.

      3. Crippling the Trump administration with lawfare, and preventing it from Draining the Swamp, is worth trillions for the Deep State.

  3. How many times are we going to learn not to talk to the cops?

      1. There’s right against self incrimination but if you’re refusing to talk about someone else (i.e. Trump) that’s called obstruction of justice.

        1. No, it’s not obstruction of justice to refuse to talk about the doings of another person. One has no obligation whatsoever to talk to the police about one’s self, other people or the time of day. A court can subpoena one to testify in court or before a grand jury. At that point one can invoke the 5th Amendment to to decline to testify wherever there is a reasonable fear that testimony may be incriminatory. Refusal to testify pursuant to a subpoena, absent any privilege, constitutes contempt of court not obstruction of justice.

          1. That’s the key. Refuse to talk to law enforcement and only speak in court. Then their bullshit ‘lying to the feds’ laws don’t apply.

    1. ESPECIALLY not to the feds.

      1. If there’s one thing Mueller is going to accomplish, it’s almost certain to be that many who would’ve talked to the feds in benign circumstances now won’t.
        If an FBI agent asks me the time of day, my reply will be “no comment”

    2. Don’t Talk to the Police
      https://youtu.be/d-7o9xYp7eE

    3. This.

      Headline could just as easily be Narcissistic blowhard who loves to hear himself talk indicted for talking too much

      1. Wow, for once you uttered something not moronic (I have a doggie treat around here somewhere).

    4. It’s hard to avoid talking to the cops when you’re working in the White House during a transition. Theoretically, the cops are working for your boss, and you need to coordinate all sorts of things with them.

      I suspect that future Republican White houses will have “A lawyer must be present if anybody from the FBI is in the room” rules in place, though.

  4. These guys coordinated their testimony BY EMAIL?

    WTF.

    Presumably it isn’t illegal to advise someone to plead the 5th.

    1. It probably is illegal if you advise a conservative to plead the fifth.

    2. Mueller would have you believe that you cannot communicate with anyone who might or might not be a person of interest to his investigation.

      1. No “crime” is too small to earn you some vicegrips-to-the-balls treatment from Sturmbannfuhrer Mueller.

    3. It’s illegal if St. Mueller says it’s illegal.

    4. I think it’s the “encouraged [the guy] to back [the liar] up” that’s meant to be illegal.

      “Please lie to Congress” would be legit interfering with a witness.

      (Now, I don’t think Congress should be able to compel testimony, let alone under oath, but since it currently can

      It’s a power Congress invented out of whole cloth, with no Constitutional authorization, and the Courts went along with it.)

      1. We know that witnesses to Ford communicated shared statements in email. Hillary’s accompanying witnesses were allowed to be her lawyer for fucks sake. This is asinine.

      2. Ever since that time years ago when Congress decided to run an investigation of ? of all things? steroids in baseball instead of doing their jobs of passing a budget, I’ve had nothing but contempt for that august body. Of course it doesn’t help my estimation of them when they are joined by people who believe the world will end in exactly 12 years.

        Lying to them is the least they deserve. They should be collectively mooned, farted upon, and then tarts and feathered and run out of town on a rail.

      3. WTF?
        You are mad that the body of government tasked with inventing laws invented a law?
        You know that there are all kinds of laws which ARENT in the Constitution. Amazing!

        Even the most ardent originalist would have to admit that the Congress has the authority to create laws about the operation of the federal government. Particularly when those powers have been confirmed and supported by the Executive Branch and the Judicial Branch.

        1. The missing Drug Prohibition Amendment.

  5. Could a person claim that the lie they told was a form of taking the fifth.

    BTW love the show by the FBI having a swat raid on his house in the dark hours of morning when they could have walked up to his door with a plain cloths officer and arrested him in broad daylight, its not like Stone was a know violent old man, but then that wouldn’t send signals to others that the deep state is prepared to ruin anyone they can. May the Dems rue the day they opened up the deep state to active duty for once they realize their power they will realize they don’t need either party to run the country, maybe they already have and the Dems are the puppets of the deep state?

    1. Dude is 67 years old.

      This type of arrest is unnecessary for any non-violent crime arrest.

    2. They could have just called and told him to turn himself in but then they wouldn’t have gotten to play with their guns and look all badass and stuff.

      1. And CNN really needed the video so they could say “We are real news, Mr. President” and then go back to doxing high school kids

    3. James Clapper, lied to Congress, then told them to their face he lied to them. Nothing happened. People don’t even want to acknowledge it. Chuckie Schumer warned against messing the intel guys because they can screw you six ways to Sunday.

      It tells you who the real boss is.

      1. Every time this gets mentioned people shout “whataboutism”, which is a highly retarded response. People see these laws being applied unequally and it’s corrosive. But, I’m sure Mueller will eventually find that smoking gun of Russia collusion (just a few more years)

        1. “‘People see these laws being applied unequally and it’s corrosive.”

          Exactly.

          Also, for decades I’ve been wanting to see prosecutorial reform. No charge stacking, no intimidation to coerce a guilty plea, ect. Now some of the very classes of people this has been used against are praising it due to their hatred of Trump.

          1. It’s Stone’s own fault. If he wanted Democrats to defend his rights, he should have come to this country illegally like all the truly good people do.

            1. He should’ve supported the Democrats like every goodthinking person. Instead he had opinions and original ideas and other racist/misogynist/homophobic states of being.

              If only he hadn’t had to much to think, if only he’d voted in the right way, if only he despised the proles, he could’ve committed any crime at all for free.

        2. “Every time this gets mentioned people shout “whataboutism”,”

          People are stupid. Whataboutism is when you explicitly point to something completely unrelated as a means of deflection.

          IE The United States condemns the Soviet Union for invading Hungary and the Soviet Union’s response is that the US allows Jim Crow laws

        3. This cannot be allowed to run for a ‘few more years’.
          Mueller has spent a lot of tax payer money.
          Ken Starr had to present his finding to the committee which was overseeing his activities every 6 months. Mueller is beholden to any kind of congressional oversight. He has far more power than Ken Starr ever had, and we actually have no idea what his oversight if any actually is. For all we know, he may well have something on Rosenstein and therefore makes his demands and Rosenstein complies.
          Absolutely no special counsel should be overseen by a single person. He must also justify every time he wants to expand his scope. Mueller has completely gone off the reservation in the original purpose of the investigation. Rosenstein simply approved the expansion of the investigation and then slapped top secret on the document which did so.
          Rosenstein should not even be providing oversight of this investigation, and Mueller should not be in charge of any arrests which are process crimes. Why is Mueller involving himself in the crime of lying to congress. Surely this should be down to congress to prosecute.
          Congress are certainly not in any hurry to prosecute this crime, otherwise Clapper, Clinton and Brennan would already be in jail now.
          How can anyone not believe that that Mueller’s investigation is not a witch hunt.

      2. Too Deep State to Jail

      3. Clapper was caught off guard and tried to not reveal classified info in a public setting. He presumably answered all their questions subsequently in a private setting. Stone was lying to Congress for corrupt personal interests. It’s a huge difference and why your whataboutism is inapplicable here.

        1. The way you justify bad behavior for your team is astounding. I remember when actual liberals cheered the information released by Snowden, but now you defend Clapper. What a fucking douche you are.

          1. Not just defending Clapper. Defending the notion of secret domestic spying being kept from the public.

            The Stasi would be proud.

        2. No, Stone was not lying “for corrupt personal interests”. Nothing he allegedly lied about was illegal in any way. Same with Flynn. Same with Papadopoulos. Same with Cohen. Same with van der Zwaan. Seeing a pattern here, boys and girls?

          When the Feds ask for an interview, decline through your lawyer. If invited to testify before a grand jury, decline through your lawyer. If subpoenaed to testify, advise through your lawyer that you intend to plead the 5th.

        3. He was lying about something that wasn’t even a crime in the first place.
          It was a pretty stupid thing to do, and Stone actually partially deserves the consequences, however, Mueller should not be involving himself in anything to do with lies told to congress. He is not the congressional enforcer. Why is nobody asking why he feels the need to do so. This is absolutely not in his remit.

        4. The issue is lying to congress. Motives don’t matter.

    4. We know the raid was needed. It’s not like they have already released Stone…oh, wait.

    5. “Could a person claim that the lie they told was a form of taking the fifth.”

      You can certainly claim that. The response you get will depend on the temperament of you judge. If he’s the jolly sort, he will laugh uproariously. If he’s the cantankerous type, he will scream at you and your lawyer.

  6. >>>Except in this case it looks like there was no crime to cover up

    poisonous trees and all that.

  7. “WikiLeaks’ publication of emails stolen by Russian hackers from the Democratic National Committee and John Podesta”

    I like how we just accept that as fact now. Wikileaks denies that they got these e-mails from a foreign government, but we should definitely trust an intelligence community that has lied regularly throughout recent memory.

    1. Wikileaks denies that they got these e-mails from a foreign government, but we should definitely trust an intelligence community that has lied regularly throughout recent memory.

      They didn’t just lie but, were pretty basally incompetent and various levels of colluding throughout the whole fiasco as well.

      “Dear DNC,

      You’ve got a security breach. Left you a VM. Check your email servers.

      P.S. – Don’t worry, Hillary’s email server in good hands.

      Smooches,
      The FBI”

      1. Their response to this was to wiretap the Trump campaign and send at least two spies to infiltrate the Trump campaign.

        Seems legit.

    2. From Day 1 Assange said it wasn’t aliens.

      But they keep saying it was aliens.

    3. This is not even about trusting the intelligence services. It is about taking the word of the DNC. It is they who claim they were hacked and yet refuse to allow the FBI access to their servers to determine who may have hacked them.
      From my understanding, this was an inside job. The server was not hacked. It was downloaded, probably from an angry Bernie support, then passed on to Wikileaks.
      We will never know because the DNC will not allow any investigation of they servers.

  8. Except the DNC wasn’t hacked Seth Rich downloaded all that information and was killed for it.

  9. Can someone not poisoned by TDS explain how this two year investigation is justified anymore? The only people being tangentially tied to “muh, collusion” are foreign nationals that Mueller knows will never respond to the subpoenas and therefore he never has to make a case.

    Come back with a report showing that Trump violated campaign finance laws with his pay-off of Stormy Daniels and let Congress decide what to do. These Russia fever dreams are just pushing us further into conflict with Russia (which, if we’re being honest, was the whole point of this investigation to begin with) by arming Ukraine and continuing to levy unproductive sanctions.

    1. It isn’t. It’s been a fraud since the beginning whose only purpose seems to be to distract from what they should have been investigating – Hillary’s emails and foreign bribes.

      Sometimes I wonder if Mueller is running a false flag operation and fully intends to keep finding such small phony fish until 2020, and then fold (fold!) without anything substantial. It sometimes makes more sense than what it appears to be.

      1. Can you imagine the impotent rage of the left of this happened?

        It would make 2016 look like amateur hour.

      2. Conversing with a rapid dem TDSer I asked her exactly what she expected from the mueller investigation. She said probably nothing but not because nothing will be found, but because they’ll have to suppress it due to “national security”. I said wtf?

        1. I meant rabid of course…

          1. Don’t let her bite you, TDS is a transmissible encephalopathy, that shit is deadly.

    2. I heard Adam Schiff the other day on npr basically say that the dems aren’t happy with the fact that Mueller hasn’t found anything yet that would qualify as impeachable. So they may replace him with a stooge who will deliver Trump’s head to them

      1. Congress has no power to replace. Independent counsel is property of the executive.

        1. This particular SP is being run from the executive branch.
          Ken Starr was controlled by a judicial committee if memory serves me correct.
          No one person should have control over the activities of a special counsel, and certainly not someone as conflicted as Rosenstein since he wrote the memo recommending Comey be fired

    3. It was a ruse to detract from the DNC’s own racket with the Russians and probably other shit from day one.

      That’s why they freaked out when they lost. The plan was to have Hilary get in to clean up the mess and make it all disappear.

      Instead they got Trump and they had to orchestrate a plot pinning him as the scapegoat.

      The fact CNN, the FBI and Mueller seemingly orchestrated this even stinks still some more.

      Cui bono?

      1. But Hillary, I should add, is such a loser and a malcontent, incompetent sot she’d probably mess that up too.

      2. I think it’s Sir Bono

    4. “Can someone not poisoned by TDS explain how this two year investigation is justified anymore? ”

      It keeps the Deep State in power and safe from prosecution for its crimes.

  10. WikiLeaks’ publication of emails stolen by Russian hackers from the Democratic National Committee and John Podesta, Hillary Clinton’s campaign chairman, in 2016.

    Good article overall, but let’s not state propaganda as fact.

  11. “Sometimes the truth is too painful, and the lies will land you in prison”

    — Roger Stone

    1. “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor”

      –That lying piece of shit Obama.

      1. These boots were made for walking . . [all over that fat blowhard]”

        — Nancy

        1. Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|1.26.19 @ 9:35AM|#
          “These boots were made for walking . . [all over that fat blowhard]”
          — Nancy”

          Nice try at deflection, loser asshole; typical lefty lack of honesty. Now let’s try this one more time:
          “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor”
          –That lying piece of shit Obama.

  12. Trump’s going down this time for sure.

      1. Trump is taking a long walk on a short pier. But, he has his health so he has everything.

        1. And he’s totally not obese.

          With magnificent hair.

          And a loving wife.

          And the support of all the best people.

          Many of the best people work for him.

          1. Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|1.26.19 @ 1:19PM|#
            “And he’s totally not obese.”
            And the hag is lovely, right, loser asshole?

            “With magnificent hair.”
            And she’s got great legs, right, loser asshole?

            “And a loving wife.”
            And she’s got a faithful husband, right, loser asshole?

            “And the support of all the best people.’
            And the support of assholes like you, right, loser asshole?

            “Many of the best people work for him.”
            And many of her employees really shouldn’t be sent to jail, right, loser asshole?

  13. It seems pretty clear the government didn’t have probable cause to charge Stone with anything before the alleged coverup. So why was he the subject of an investigation? This seems to be another case of government creating crimes where none existed. Trump should pardon him.

    1. It has always been about the coup by any means. The Democrats will only understand how wrong all of this is when someone sends a special prosecutor after all of Obama’s minions.

      1. The morning after the election prominent democrats were promising an impeachment.

        Within weeks Obama White House officials were plotting to take classified information that was obtained from wiretapping the Trump campaign and disseminate it around the government in order to leak it after the inauguration, hamstringing his administration.

        This isn’t wild, conspiracy-theory stuff. They actually bragged about it in the New York Times at the time.

        As far as we know, nobody from the FBI has asked the NYT about that article and who might have been committing felonies. Well, since we have subsequently learned that the FBI leadership was heavily involved in creating the false crisis and carrying out the wiretapping of the Trump campaign, I suppose it isn’t too surprising that the FBI didn’t investigate that too closely.

        1. NYT:
          “More than a half-dozen current and former officials described various aspects of the effort to preserve and distribute the intelligence, and some said they were speaking to draw attention to the material and ensure proper investigation by Congress. All spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were discussing classified information, nearly all of which remains secret, making an independent public assessment of the competing Obama and Trump administration claims impossible.”

          1. Now, all those, who “commented on condition of anonymity because they were discussing classified information” were REALLY committing felonies, but no effort seems to have been made to track them down.
            Federal “law enforcement” is far too subjective in what they “investigate” to be considered reliable. Wasn’t there a book about anyone being able to have committed three federal crimes, before breakfast?
            The Constitution gives Congress law enforcement powers over very few things, like counterfeiting or piracy. The level of intrusion into what should have been left to the states is beyond comprehension.

    2. “‘So why was he the subject of an investigation? ”

      BFYTW

      Because when they slap you, you’ll take it and like it.

      1. Thank you sir, may I have another.

  14. “WikiLeaks’ publication of emails stolen [ALLEGEDLY] by Russian hackers from the Democratic National Committee and John Podesta”

    1. Sullum is a Deep State dupe.

      1. Apparently.
        Reason publishes 5 fucking articles a day on the police being mean, some complaints more legitimate than others, but barely mentions the American Gestapo raiding a guy’s house (with several squads worth of automatic weapons) for process crimes?
        A guy who posed no threat to law enforcement or the community, and whose crimes are procedural nitpicks.
        A guy who isn’t a flight risk at all and who they released less than 24 hours later.
        Meanwhile, others have committed the same (type of) crimes on a scale orders of magnitude greater.
        Fuck every single one of Reason’s past, present, and future articles bitching about government/police overreach/abuses – even legitimate objections are rendered illegitimate by Reason’s current stance.

        1. “A guy who posed no threat to law enforcement or the community, and whose crimes are procedural nitpicks.
          A guy who isn’t a flight risk at all and who they released less than 24 hours later.”

          My wife catches TV news before I get up. She was a bit breathless this morning regarding the footage, but once I asked where it was broadcast (CNN) and what the charges were, she got a better handle on things.

    2. If Trump clicked on a link like John Podesta, people would be chanting lock him up.

  15. “Trump himself, given his penchant for prevarication, could fall into a similar trap if his lawyers let him.”
    That’s just not true. Mueller works for the executive. Dip you know who the executive is? Trump doesn’t have to say dick to Mueller, and can, in fact, order the Justice department not to indict himself, or to end the investigation completely, at any time.
    In fact, a president is pretty much immune to any criminal charges, and can only be held accountable by impeachment, which is not a criminal trial and produces no criminal penalties- no jail, no fines, only removal from office.

    1. “That’s just not true. Mueller works for the executive. Dip you know who the executive is? ”

      Since Trump doesn’t know either, Mueller is pretty safe.

      1. “Since Trump doesn’t know either, Mueller is pretty safe.”

        Dunno if that’s sarc or idiocy. It’s amazing how some folks assume Trump is dumber than they are.
        Pretty sure he’s well familiar with who works for whom, but he’s not about to fire that idiot for fear of being accused of repeating Nixon’s “Saturday Night Massacre”, in spite of the fact that there is no equivalence at all.
        Nixon was accused of specific crimes, and it was in response to a specific subpoena demanding specific documents that he fired those people. None of which applies to Mueller’s fishing expedition.
        But given the general level of TDS, such clear distinctions would never be accepted by NBC, CNN, CBS, NPR, NYT. Chron, Wa Po, etc, *regardless* of those clear distinctions. Hell, they’d try to get FBI ‘warning’ in the hopes of getting footage of the firing for broadcast, as they did here.
        Trump is a blow-hard, but he’s smarter than they are; he seems to be more than willing to let Mueller keep accusing (and often getting convictions of) people who once knew or once worked for Trump. Or knew somebody who knew somebody who knew Trump. For jay-walking. For money laundering (some time earlier). For ‘lying to people while not under oath’. For 45 in a 35 zone ten year before they met Trump.
        All the while the TDS assholes keep saying ‘They got him this time!’

        1. Trump should publicly give Mueller a deadline – “Mueller has been instructed to complete his investigation by April 15, at which time he will be relieved of duty.”

          Then let the chips fall as the may.

          1. Hard to believe, with strategery at that level, that conservatives have been losing our culture war for more than a half-century, and therefore must spend their each of their days obediently complying with the preferences of better Americans.

            1. Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland|1.26.19 @ 9:38AM|#
              “Hard to believe, with strategery at that level, that conservatives have been losing our culture war for more than a half-century,…”

              Easy to believe half-educated asshole continues to post lies.

            2. So says the asshole who couldn’t solve for the subgame perfect Nash equilibrium if given thousand years to do it in.

            3. You can’t win a war when half your general staff are on the other side.

  16. “The Trump adviser’s legal problem is not what he did but what he said about what he did.”

    The next indictment will be for thinking about saying something about about what he did.

    1. And creating a nuisance.

    2. “He stood there and smiled.”

  17. Deep State corruption still in action.

    While during the Obama Administration it was about exonerating Democrats of their Deep State corruption, now it’s about relentlessly attacking anyone on the Right who opposes the Deep State.

    Halfway through Trump’s term, and Deep State crime rolls on without a hiccup. If anything, it’s increasing. They’re drowning their enemies in the Swamp. Publicly.

  18. But two years after the investigation into Russian attempts to influence the presidential election began, we have not seen any real evidence of illegal collusion by the Trump campaign.

    THAT lame excuse again?
    We won’t see any evidence until it’s used in a trial, or in Mueller’s report. That’s how our criminal justice system works. Or … can you tell us what Mueller has? If you must apply the Trump/Giuliani laugher, “this is not a crime” why not add, FAKE NEWS and Lyin’ Hillary?

    Since you’ve outed yourself as another Trumpster hack, I’ll take take the grand jury’s judgment over yours, and assume they are NOT part of the insidious Deep State Conspiracy to bring down the Orange God who’s been humiliated by two GURLS — first Coulter, now Pelosi.

    1. Brought to you by Sock Puppets for the Deep State

      1. Trump “caved” according to Tucker, Limbaugh, Coulter, Malkin, Breitbart and Fox. Are they my socks, too? Or did Pelosi also whup their sorry asses? *snort*

        I’m the only person in the universe who does not worship the 12-time business failure, the first President forced to pay a $25 million fraud settlement, while in office!. But I use sock puppets to make it appear there are as many 8 of us.

        Or … is it your CDS. Conspiracy Derangement Syndrome.
        How many indictments, confessions and convictions? While only 1/3 of Americans do NOT believe Trump is controlled by Putin (who financed Trump’s entire fortune)?

        Russian invitation to Donald Jr.
        The Crown prosecutor of Russia met with his father Aras this morning and in their meeting offered to provide the Trump campaign with some official documents and information that would incriminate Hillary and her dealings with Russia and would be very useful to your father.

        This is obviously very high level and sensitive information but is part of Russia and its government’s support for Mr. Trump ? helped along by Aras and Emin.
        Source: Donald Trump Jr’s own Twitter feed!!! (the dumbfuck)

        Junior is undeniably guilty. Will Donald Sr. allow his son to spend the rest of his life in prison. Is Trump THAT evil?

        LOCK THEM UP!
        (ridicule)

        1. Fuck off, Hihn!

        2. Hey Hihn!
          Go fuck yourself!

        3. Yep, you’re the ONLY person.

          1. Your choice! … Infantile Sneering Jackals …. or DOCUMENTED proof (click the link to Donald Jr’s own Twitter feed!) (snort)

    2. If prosecution had evidence, they would move to charge someone or proceed with a trial. Mueller already charged several people for process crime because they already listened to their conversation.

      If the investigators don’t show us the evidence, then the accused is presumed innocent. Simple stuff.

      1. If prosecution had evidence, they would move to charge someone or proceed with a trial.

        Like ….
        an …..
        INDICTMENT? (smirk)

        If the investigators don’t show us the evidence, then the accused is presumed innocent.

        Only Trumptards believe that.
        Sane people know the evidence is seen by the grand jury, then the trial, after an INDICTMENT.
        Trumptards say grand juries are part of the Deep State Conspiracy. Financed by George Soros. And that Kenyan nigger.
        /sarc

        Simple stuff.

        For adults. You made a fool of yourself.

        Saw the title here. Knew Trumptards wouldbe scurrying like cockroaches.
        Severe denial is a psychiatric affliction. Often associated with CDS (Conspiracy Derangement Syndrome.)

        1. Fuck off, Hihn!

        2. Fuck off Hihn.

        3. So you don’t believe in the presumption of innocence until proven guilty?

          1. How much STUPIDITY and BULLSHIT can Trumptards reveal (snort)

            DesigNate
            So you don’t believe in the presumption of innocence until proven guilty?

            YOU don’t know what an indictment is!

            YOU don’t even know WHAT THE FUCK THIS TREAD IS!
            XM said Mueller had no evidence unless WE saw it …. BEFORE A GRAND JURY DID … AND despite over 30 total indictments, guilty pleas and convictions.!

            YOUR stupidity is defended by ENRAGED jackals …DesigNate … FancyLad …. retiredffire (TWICE!) … and Sevo. Trump’s own puppets, dancing on a string,

    3. NolanLibertarian|1.25.19 @ 7:44PM|#

      Fuck off an die, Hihn. Make the world a better place.

    4. Fuck off, Hihn!

      1. How much STUPIDITY and BULLSHIT can Trumptards reveal (snort)

        DesigNate
        So you don’t believe in the presumption of innocence until proven guilty?

        YOU don’t know what an indictment is!

        YOU don’t even know WHAT THE FUCK THIS TREAD IS!
        XM said Mueller had no evidence unless WE saw it …. BEFORE A GRAND JURY DID … AND despite over 30 total indictments, guilty pleas and convictions.!

        YOUR stupidity is defended by ENRAGED jackals …DesigNate … FancyLad …. retiredffire (TWICE!) … and Sevo. Trump’s own puppets, dancing on a string,
        (smirk)

  19. The FBI sent a swat team in the dead of night (with CNN present to record the whole thing) to arrest a man accused of lying about sending emails saying “I think I know this and that”.

    As you can see, the left does not care about criminal justice reform. For them that’s just a buzzword for “less colored people in jail, please”. The FBI coerced a confession out of Omar Mateen’s (mentally disabled) wife and that hardly got a rise out of them.

    Resorting to fascism to stop fascism. That’s a progressive hallmark. The heart of the French Revolution beats on inside the democrat party.

    1. well said

  20. What’s truly amazing to me is that no one has yet to ask the very simple question of how there is an underlying, substantive crime. Hillary Clinton’s emails while Secretary of State are – by law – the property of the people of the United States. How is it possibly a crime for someone – anyone – to release emails to the public that are, by definition under FOIA, entitled to be seen by We, the People?

    When someone can answer that question, THEN we can have an honest discussion about Mueller’s legitimacy. If Putin personally called Trump on the phone and told him he had Hillary’s emails as SoS and “would Trumpski like them to be made public?” Any honest citizen would say, “Yes. Absolutely.” Every fucking one of them is the property of the people of he United States. Period. (Let’s set aside the bullshit FOIA exceptions for the moment because none of us would actually care about the yoga appointment emails, nor the Hag’s other proclivities). But anything she sent as SoS was the property of the People of the US. Someone please, please explain to me how this is not the case.

    1. “What’s truly amazing to me is that no one has yet to ask the very simple question of how there is an underlying, substantive crime.”
      Not only haven’t they asked how there, they haven’t even proposed a possible, actual, crime. “Collusion” is not a crime, nor, in general use, does it really mean a whole lot, other than ‘hint, hint – nudge, nudge’.

      “Hillary Clinton’s emails while Secretary of State are – by law – the property of the people of the United States. How is it possibly a crime for someone – anyone – to release emails to the public that are, by definition under FOIA, entitled to be seen by We, the People?”
      Further, I’m a citizen. How did that hag get away with deleting *MY* property from the server she illegally maintained? Meuller has a job here, and that job includes the clear violations of that hag.

      1. The other part that shows the willful ignorance of the legacy media was when they all parroted that talking point about how “Colin Powell did it, too!” For anyone who was paying attention, read the actual email from Powell and what he said. From a TechDirt article at the time:

        “According to the FBI, Powell ‘warned Clinton that if it became ‘public’ that Clinton had a BlackBerry, and she used it to ‘do business,’ her e-mails could become ‘official record[s] and subject to the law.'”

        “Be very careful,” Powell advised Clinton, according to the FBI. “I got around it all by not saying much and not using systems that captured the data.”

        So, there it is in black and white, but the media buried that in the memory hole and instead i all became about the salacious things that Powell said about TRUMP!!1! or the Hag’s health, or something else. That was all misdirection. Powell point blank told her that her machinations might become subject to FOIA, even on her personal device, and hence, Presto! she just set up her own private fucking server. Unreal. Just utterly unreal. And just coincidentally she had all of those people working for her drawing two paychecks for both the State Dept and the Clinton Foundation – but… NOTHING TO SEE HERE BECAUSE… DRUMPPPFFF!!!

        I told people at the time, this was when I knew we are in the end days of the Republic; you’re watching Rome burn.

        1. AFSlade|1.25.19 @ 10:07PM|#
          “The other part that shows the willful ignorance of the legacy media was when they all parroted that talking point about how “Colin Powell did it, too!” For anyone who was paying attention, read the actual email from Powell and what he said. From a TechDirt article at the time:…”

          Powell *DID NOT* set up a private server to avoid the FIOA as did that hag HRC; those shoe claim equivalency are ignoramuses or useful idiots.
          Talking to YOU, Tony…

  21. Credico said he would not voluntarily testify and would invoke the 5th if forced. Seems like the only one with any brains.

    1. Maybe he just likes his dog.

  22. I watched the Roger Stone post-arrest interview on Fox tonight (Tucker Carlson show.)

    It is hard to believe this is America. It has to be Germany or Russia in the 1930’s, or China when the Red Guards were waving Mao’s little red book around and using that as excuse enough to execute many tens of millions of traditional Chinese people.

    You combine this loathsome public arrest (calculated and set up to be as demeaning a piece of televised political theatre as possible) with the Covington students being media-mugged for having the audacity to peacefully demonstrate for right to life while wearing MAGA hats, and you have to start to think that this is truly 1861 all over again and the next four years in America may resemble the movie Gangs of New York times about a million.

    The worst aspect of this prediction is that the USA is a genuine superpower and superpowers do not have internal civil wars without every other major power getting involved, whether they have been meddling previously or not. The stakes are too high. The rapidly escalating table stakes also promise a spectacularly cruel conflict.

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  24. Could Stone have been lying about Corsi (or whomever the alleged intermediary is) being an actual intermediary? If so, then telling Credico not to claim such would be legitimate and telling congress that he Credico was his only source would be the truth.

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  26. I don’t think Mueller is intentionally trying to damage Trump. He was given a vague task and is proceeding like he would in other investigations.

    Mueller’s problem is that he has no idea how damaging and divisive his investigation is to the country. He’s an automaton following a script, rather than seeing how he is being used by the intelligence community.

    The new AG should ‘clarify’ Mueller’s instructions and expand it to include Donkey machinations like 30,000 counts of obstruction of justice by team Hildog.

    1. Can’t do that. Too many active servants of the Obama administration were intentionally and conspiratorially engaging in intense and deliberate attempts to use every tool laying around their high offices to sabotage the incoming POTUS-elect and overturn the results of the 2016 election. Obama and the Clintons may not personally like each other, but they have had their fingers in the same schemes and cover-ups for a long time back.

      Their teams cover for each other. Their appointed judges and the vital legacy media 24/7 all pro-Democrat narratives and apologies for Democrats and stonewalling of Democrat misdeeds cover for both of them.

    2. Part of the problem with going after the real criminal conspirators – HiLIARy’s team – is that immunity was handed out, like candy.
      Fortunately, if someone protected by immunity can be shown to have lied, the deal is off.
      How long would it take to find lies told by HiLIARy, Huma, Cheryl Mills, etc.?

    3. “I don’t think Mueller is intentionally trying to damage Trump. He was given a vague task and is proceeding like he would in other investigations.”

      Mueller is the guy that transformed the FBI from a law enforcement agency focused on crime in the U.S. to an international anti-terrorism agency. Comey was his right hand man–Mueller was Comey’s mentor. They both threatened to resign in tandem under the Bush administration.

      Mueller investigating the FBI is the FBI investigating itself.

      Mueller investigating Comey’s allegations is Comey being investigated by his own loving father.

      Mueller doesn’t need to have nefarious motives against Trump. He just needs to want to defend the FBI he created and defend his star pupil, Comey. Expecting to get an objective investigation out of this is absurd. There isn’t anything objective about Mueller’s investigation.

      1. And given that Rosenstein, who both wrote the memo to fire Comey and who gave Mueller his job, was also one of the FISA signatories, the deal has been rotten as hell from the start. Again, I say a new special prosecutor has to be given the job of uncovering what all of those people in DOJ and FBI were doing.

      2. “There isn’t anything objective about Mueller’s investigation.”

        Do you think prosecutors are objective? Or supposed to be objective? You need to rethink some of these absurd assumptions.

    4. I don’t think Mueller is intentionally trying to damage Trump.

      That’s not even his assignment … despite all the brainwashed, dumbass Trumptards
      His appointment letter says NOTHING about Trump … and NOTHING about collusion! (OMFG)
      Trump SCREAMING “No colliision” 372 times is as USELESS as saying. “No life on the moon.”
      He’s a ventriloquist working all his witless dummies.

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  28. I have no wish to see him go to prison.

    If he does though once the other dudes see that Nixon tattoo on his back he will have no problems there. He threatened the dog? You don’t mess with a guy that batshit.

    1. That dog was an asshole.

    2. He is kind of a sheisty dirt bag… But I kinda like him.

      1. He is kind of a sheisty dirt bag… But I kinda like him.

        (lol) Birds of a feather …

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  30. Am I to understand that Mr Sullum writing in an obstensibly Libertarian magazine is nonplussed by Process Crimes, and early AM SWAT raids where the media has been tipped off?

    1. Process CRIMES are NOT crimes say the eagerly brainwashed Trumptards!

      In United States criminal procedure terminology, a process crime is an offense against the judicial process. These crimes include failure to appear, false statements, obstruction of justice, contempt of court and perjury.

      Their ventriloquist programs their robotic minds … then sends them scurrying like cockroaches to infest the Internet.

      LOSERtarian Sad Sacks (sneer)

      1. No moron what we are arguing is process crimes have nothing to do with the supposed focus of the investigation- Russian collusion. You do realize one one thing missing this indictment is any mention of an communication or contact with actual Russians by Stone. The entire claim is Russian hackers got into Posdesta’s email and gave the into to Wikileaks who was in turn contacted by Stone who then contacted people in the campaign about when info might be released. There is no claim of actual contact between Stone and Russians. Yet according to media this is the final nail in Trump’s coffin when in fact yet again it is nothing.

  31. What no one seems to mention is the absurdity of the raid on Stone’s house. 29 agents in full tactical gear, carrying automatic weapons, 17 blackouted vehicles, a helicopter and an amphibious assault vehicle to arrest a guy accused of lying to Congress? James Clapper, John Brennan, Hillary Clinton and Jame Comey all lied to Congress and the evidence of their lies has been publicly known and discussed for months and months, yet not one of them has been charged with committing the exact same crime as Stone and many others. Why?? If lying to Congress is a crime, why are only those on the right or connected to President Trump charged and others walk free? The glaring reality of a two tier justice system as well as the obvious strong arm, Gestapo tactics of Mueller, the DOJ and FBI during this raid should make everyone angry and concerned. However for so many, especially the Trump hating media and left, this is all perfectly okay.

    1. It’s about to get all revolutionary up in this bitch…

      Well, it should.
      Government can’t control and defend our southern border, but our Stasi/Gestapo units can still carry out their part in a coup.

      Reason’s real motto: progress uber alles

    2. You forgot tipping off CNN so the dog and pony show would push the raid as “evidence” of how serious a criminal Roger Stone is (to the gullible who get their news spoon fed by the MSM).

  32. Not even a real coverup, as there was no “crime” or criminal act to cover up. Every indictment has resulted from the investigations of the non-existent alleged crime. Sort of sad for justice and the country that the criminal acts are caused by the investigators, but that’s just my opinion.

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