An Immigrant Girl's Death in CBP Custody Draws Criticism

"Our Border Patrol stations were built decades ago to handle mostly male single adults in custody, not families and children."



A 7-year-old Guatemalan girl who crossed the southern border died shortly after entering the custody of U.S. Customs and Border Protection (CBP).

The Washington Post reports that in early December, the girl, her father, and about 160 other migrants turned themselves in to CBP agents near Lordsburg, New Mexico. About eight hours after she was taken in custody, the girl began to have seizures. Emergency responders found that she had been deprived of food and water for several days. She went into cardiac arrest, and she died after being transported to a children's hospital in El Paso.

After her death became public, Department of Homeland Security (DHS) Secretary Kirstjen Nielsen called the situation "a very sad example of the dangers of this journey." Nielsen then spoke of the limitations faced by Border Patrol agents, saying the migrants "came in such a large crowd that it took our border patrol folks a couple times to get them all."

Cynthia Pompa of the American Civil Liberties Union took a much harsher tone. "This tragedy represents the worst possible outcome when people, including children, are held in inhumane conditions," she said in a statement. "Lack of accountability and a culture of cruelty within CBP have exacerbated policies that lead to migrant deaths." While the number of border crossings came down last year, she noted, the number of migrant deaths increased. (The number of illegal border crossings is in fact at a 10-year low.)

The Post points out that while food and water are typically provided to migrants in CBP custody, it's unclear whether the girl received provisions or a medical examination while in the agency's care.

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  1. Did the Border Patrol by any chance let Juan David Ortiz interrogate the girl?

    1. Not Americans - dont care.

  2. "About eight hours after she was taken in custody, the girl began to have seizures. Emergency responders found that she had been deprived of food and water for several days."

    . . . .

    Cynthia Pompa of the American Civil Liberties Union took a much harsher tone. "This tragedy represents the worst possible outcome when people, including children, are held in inhumane conditions".

    Cynthia Pompa of the ACLU owes anybody who actually is being held in inhumane conditions a serious apology for crying wolf.

    Terrible tragedy. I hope the parents aren't charged with child endangerment. We all people have been charged for far less.

    1. Cynthia Pompa of the ACLU owes anybody who actually is being held in inhumane conditions a serious apology for crying wolf.

      Yeah, "humane conditions" can tolerate at least a handful of children dying of heat stroke and dehydration. Get back to me when they start tearing out fingernails.

      1. So somehow CBP denied this child food and water for days in just a few hours? The real criminals here are those that pushed this child into the journey and made the decisions that killed her. Lets start with the adults in her life and probably the criminally negligent organizers of the caravan.

        1. It's her parents' fault for taking her on a journey to circumvent border laws. they're the ones that didn't see to it that she was fed and well hydrated.

        2. The real criminals here are those that pushed this child into the journey and made the decisions that killed her. Lets start with the adults in her life and probably the criminally negligent organizers of the caravan.

          I hope you are prepared to see your viewpoints return to being largely irrelevant in America in a couple of years.

        3. Do you seroiously believe CBP gave her water? OMFG

          1. I can't even right now!

      2. Am I wrong about the story? I've been wrong before. I'll be wrong again. Is there more being reported elsewhere?

        From what I'm seeing here:

        "About eight hours after she was taken in custody, the girl began to have seizures. Emergency responders found that she had been deprived of food and water for several days."

        1) The child died eight hours AFTER being taken into custody.

        2) The child had been deprived of food and water for days.

        From what I can tell, the child didn't die as the result of inhumane conditions in custody. She died as a result of walking through the desert for days without sufficient food and water.

        IF IF IF those are the facts, they don't change because someone at the ACLU blames the feds for something that happened days before the girl was in their custody.

        1. People who are severely dehydrated, and/or malnourished, will have seizures if they take in too much food and water all at once. Read the histories of the Nazi death camp liberations and the numbers of prisoners who died after being given food and drink.

        2. Its all made up to make us feel guilty. No point in trying to rationalize it.

      3. She'd been in custody for 8 hours. She'd been deprived of food and water for days.

        Those bastards pre-emptively went out and purposely starved the poor girl. We really need to do something about that.

        1. Do you believe she received any water, let alone food, for the 8 fucking hours she was in custody? If you don, what else do you believe in? Even if she was fully fed and given water by her parents, 8 hours of dehydratation could have done serious harm to her - she probably wouldn?t have died, but that can?t be an excuse for treating migrant children with such callousness. Yes, this tragic case was mostly the falut of the parents, but not ONLY the fault of the parents.

          1. No, it was only the fault of the parents, seeing as how she wouldn't have been in the situation at all if they weren't wandering around the fucking deserts of Northern Mexico and New Mexico.

          2. OH, NO!!! Ayuleen tells us that "8 hours of dehydratation could have done serious harm"! We must get this word out immediately and arrest every parent who has ever let their child sleep through the night!

            Moron. Eight hours without water is a perfectly normal and daily occurrence for most people.

      4. Once you're on the verge of death already from heat stroke and dehydration, (As she was when they found her.) it takes more than "humane" conditions to save you. It takes medical treatment.

        Yeah, she should have been treated. Her father, assuming he really was, shouldn't have waited 8 hours to tell them she was dying.

        1. The father actually told border patrol she had no medical issues. They filled out the standard medical forms when captured. The father actively denied his daughters issues. Those who captured then are not trained medical personnel. The outrage of this story is horrendously ignorant.

          1. The father most likely wasn?t trained medical personel either. Do you think a child would have died of dehydration, had she been given water by those who had detained her? She spent 8 hours!!!! in custody. I don?t believe she had received a drop of water, otherwise she wouldn?t have died.

            1. You can criticize the border patrol for existing while also recognizing that the father was going to kill his daughter with or without the help of border patrol. Ironically her only hope to survive was...the border patrol. And the reason for that? Her fathers decisions. I guess that means that Guatemalan's have a much higher opinion of our border patrol than you do.

              I'd laugh, but it's too sad.

            2. "Had she been given water by those who had detained her? She spent 8 hours!!!! in custody. I don?t believe she had received a drop of water"

              You seem to be just making shit up.

              1. Didi they give water or not? I really, really doubt it..Maybe they gave her some after it was apparent she was seriously unwell, not before - why would she have died otherwise?

                1. "Didi they give water or not? I really, really doubt it.."

                  Speculating is perfectly alright--so long as you don't expect other people to treat it as fact.

                  I don't know if the Border Patrol gave her water.

                  I know she didn't have any for days before the Border Patrol picked her up.

                  You don't expect everyone else to assume your speculation is the truth, do you? Do you expect us all to emote based on your speculation? That's living in a dream world. In the real world, either they gave her water or they didn't--and she'd been without water for two days before they found her. That's the world where the rest of us live.

                  1. Well said, Ken.
                    This is a habit you'll notice with our more progressive inclined posters, such as chemjeff, Tony, hihn-socks - treating personal speculation/prejudice (fantasy) as fact, then growing more and more emotional as their "truth" is pushed back on.
                    It is psychosis

                    1. Left out a word there relating to speculation/prejudice- hypothetical.
                      Hypotheticals are not facts, but try telling that to Tony or cj

                2. The signs of water intoxication are actually very similar to dehydration (shock, seizures, death) the evidence we have points equally to the CBP giving her TOO MUCH water as it does to not enough

          2. You say ignorant when you should say dishonest.

        2. When notified the girl was sick, the evil border patrol merely sent her to a place where she could get medical care, called ahead to alert the personnel there attention was necessary, and when treated, she was AIR LIFTED to a hospital.
          All of this heroic effort could not reverse the abuse inflicted by her father in the desert.
          Clearly Trump's fault.

          1. "When notified that the girl was sick" - was that after 8 hours of forced dehydration?

            1. Forced dehydration for eight hours would be a terrible thing, but I don't see any evidence that this is what happened here. If you have some evidence that this happened, please link to it. Otherwise, you're just speculating.

            2. Anyone can do with no water for eight hours and not die from it. Get weak, maybe, but DIE? Nah.

              get a grip on reality, Ayuleen.
              I believe standard protocol when groups are found or contacted as this one was, is to provide at least water, and some sort of food. A ragtag group like that, out in the open desert for likely days, will have minimal resources remaining, if they even brought anything with them when they jumped the border. Ever noticed those large white coloured round things up on the toolboxes on the sides of CBP pickups? Any idea what those are, or what they're for?

              When yer dun guessing, try "water". Think its for watering the desert plants? Think again. Its for watering the PEOPLE who have been wandering lost in the desert for three, five, twenty, days in the wilds.

            3. I didn't think it was possible to be a more fucktarded poster than any of our current morons, but you are really rising to the challenge in this thread.

            4. Food, water, and toilet facilities were freely available at the border patrol facility, as duly reported in at least some media. Either your Google is broken, or you have no interest in truth.
              The only one that deprived her of water was her father; as you know.

        3. "Her father, assuming he really was,"


          Never take The Narrative at face value.

        4. Her temperature was 105 degrees when she went into seizure. And it is the fever - not the malnutrition or dehydration that triggers a seizure.

          It is obvious as fuck that CBP did not do even the most elementary medical stuff (like a paramedic checking for heatstroke). Which should absolutely be the standard FIRST call for any group of 160 people - in a fucking DESERT - since you are also potentially dealing with contagious diseases etc. The rule of thumb is 'see a doctor if the temp is over 103' - and for a kid that is usually 101.

      5. Simple Simon really is fucking simple.

    2. Welcome to the desert. People die here.

      To pre-emptively shut down anyone who is going to pipe up with "But it's winter!", y'know what it being winter means? That means it's even drier.


      I note that none of these people harping on about open borders actually, y'know, live near one.

      1. It's always more fun to be self righteous in someone else's zip code.

  3. About eight hours after she was taken in custody, the girl began to have seizures. Emergency responders found that she had been deprived of food and water for several days.

    So, in other words, the girl was already severely malnourished and dehydrated when she was picked up and the condition she was found in wasn't rectified quickly enough by the government.

    Are you really sure this is the hill an ostensibly libertarian website wants to stake its last stand on?

    1. The child should have immediately received top level medical care paid for by somebody other than the parent. Because illiegal immigrants are never freeloaders

      1. They were hours away from a qualified medical center. There wasn't much they could have done even if they knew she was malnourished.

        1. You do not die from not eating for several days. She was severely dehydrated and likely had an electrolyte imbalance.

          She needed IV fluids while awaiting transport to the hospital. A paramedic could have done that.

          Of course her parents are at fault. I do think if the facility is this remote it would be a good idea in the future to have a few basic supplies and an EMT or someone who could give basic aid like that.

          They should also at least have some pedialyte for oral hydration.

          1. Do you think they were processing the 160 migrants in a well stocked hospital? This was a fairly remote outpost. They are limited in supplies. Stop trying to push blame.

            1. Limited in supplies, as in they have no water?! is there any excuse for forcibly dehydrating a child for 8 hours?

              1. on WHAT basis in FACT do you assert she had not been allowed to take any water during the time she was in their custody? Good grief..... NOTHING in the article said anything about what she had been provided and when, during the time she was in their custody.

                Haters gonna hate, spinners gonna spin, fairy talers gonna.. well, you can figure it out

            2. Pedialyte and normal saline are hardly exotic items. They know a lot of people they are bringing in are severely dehydrated. Plain water won't be enough, you need the electrolytes. Starting an IV is not that difficult. Anyone can learn it in one training session. I am sure that once the helicopter got there the paramedics did all that.

              I am not pushing blame just think it would be a good idea to have those things.

              In defense of the border agents children can crash very quickly from severe dehydration and not easy to tell before they go into shock.

              1. do you KNOW what they had, and what they used or administered? Article said nothing. She was under some sort of medical treatment before the trip to hospital. No details.

                Since when are CBP agents supposed to be fully equipped and instantly everywhere ready to hand for any emergency brought upon these people by their own ignorance, stupidity, carelessness, laziness.... Ever seen what sort of kit these guys have on their own backs as tjey patrol? So they're supposed to have pedialite, IV bags, defibrilator, snakebite kit, epi-pen, PLUS their sidearm and their AR rifle... you DO know these guys get shot at on a regular basis, don't you?

                These people ALL knew they were taking a huge risk when they left Guatemala, or should have known.

                I'd be curious to know the results of a DNA test to verify this girl is actually the daughter of the one who claims to be her father. Either he's callous and uncaring, or most ilkely not her Dad... else he'd have KNOWN she was not herself, and immediately brought this to the attention of CBP.

              2. They should be stocked with anti dehydration fluids, and should give them out as a matter of course, to the extent that this is generally advisable.

                Make the reasonable assumption that people they pick up in a desert are dehydrated and behave accordingly.

              3. Re: "you need the electrolytes". You need to retake your First Aid training. Under almost all conditions, plain water is better (and often a LOT better) than saline. Treatment with pedialyte or saline are explicitly NOT part of the treatment protocol for first responders.

      2. If you want to cage someone - for any reason - that's the burden you then take on.

        1. 3. According to a Border Patrol form, apparently signed by her father, the girl was showing no signs of trauma or distress when she was initially detained.

          4. Hours later, she started vomiting. When she stopped breathing, she was revived by medics and airlifted to a hospital in Texas.

          5. She died at the hospital, despite desperate efforts to save her life.


          For fuck sake people. If you want to live in ignorance because it makes guy our outrage easier, go ahead.

          1. Well that does change the story.

            1. This information was supplied this morning. the media doesn't care. Neither to the woke liberals in this thread.

              1. What the fuck does politics have to do with it.

            2. It doesn?t change shit if she wasn?t given food or water fo 8!!!! hours by the border patrol.

              1. You are - literally - making this up.
                Not a sign of mental stability

          2. New policy, everyone picked up gets an IV, whether they want one or not. Cue outrage from the ACLU for "not respecting bodily autonomy".

          3. Your link is broken.

          4. Oh, I found your reference!


            Hmm, this reference doesn't cite any primary source either. It is just an opinion piece.

            So where is the actual evidence that CBP acted properly here, and not just Matt Walsh's opinion of what he thinks happened?

            1. I see you have no evidence they acted improperly- just prejudice

            2. Is the Washington Post good enough?

              Or maybe HuffPost?

              1. Well finally, a news article that actually states what CBP claims to have done on the matter.

                Note that we still don't have any concrete proof of what CBP actually did or didn't do. All we have is their version of the story.

                Interesting isn't it, that in cases like these, we are asked to give the benefit of the doubt to the state. "They said they did everything right, and we should just totally believe them!"

                1. "Well finally, a news article that actually states what CBP claims to have done on the matter."

                  You are so magnanimous in defeat... an offhand sarcastic comment that throws shade on both the CBP and the people you were critiquing sandwiched in front of further snarky bullshit that you are throwing at the wall to hope it sticks like it is some interesting and original thought we are supposed to scratch our chins over. I would not normally care about a comment like this but your pretentiousness is suffocating.

    2. What is impressive to me is that within four hours of the father reporting her symptoms, she was in a pediatric ICU.
      Not very good time for someone in an urban area, but very much so for Antelope Wells, NM.

      Here is the issue: If you get sick in Antelope Wells, NM, it is going to be 90 minutes or more before you see a doctor. Look at it on Google Earth. Even if the CBP people had known she was gravely ill when the father first reported it, it would have taken a couple of hours for the Air Ambulance to get there and fly back to El Paso. Even that would be assuming a great deal. My 7 year old sometimes threw up. This was not usually a reason to panic.
      The fact that the agents on the bus notified the EMTs to meet the bus on arrival indicates to me that they took what would reasonably seem to be prudent action for a seven year old reportedly throwing up.

      This whole issue is about open borders activists saying whatever they think is effective in pushing their narrative. What do you think would have happened to the child had the group not been taken into custody? I feel sure she would have died much sooner, as it is unlikely that the cartel coyotes would have resuscitated her, or gotten her to an ICU.

  4. The question is what did CPB do in those eight hours and when were they informed the girl was having trouble? They are not responsible for her being deprived of food and water before taking her into custody, that is the responsibility of the people she was with as was putting her in a dangerous situation in the first place.

    Just because she died in custody does not necessarily mean US officials acted negligently.

    1. A big part of me wants to believe they're not dumb enough to let something like that happen with out making some tangible effort to get the kid better, but....

      1. The people who control and implement current United States policy on immigration are not known for their education, competence, character, or moral compass.

      2. They were notified as the criminals were boarding a bus for a 90 minute trip to a larger facility. The personnel at the larger facility were notified, and prepared (like EMTs there and so forth) to deal with an illness. They determined that she was a lot more than 'sick' and airlifted her to a major hospital.
        The only error I can find in the Border Patrol actions was they did not arrest the father for child endangerment.

        1. Your link is broken.

          1. Your links are always missing.

        2. "the father"

          betcha a nickel

    2. You're right. It doesn't necessarily mean the CBP did anything wrong. We ought to find out, right? An investigation would be in order, don't you think?

      1. Which makes the ACLU rep's insinuations a bit irresponsible, don't you think?

        1. What's more irresponsible:

          A representative of an advocacy organization that has been fighting for months to ensure that undocumented immigrants receive the legal protections they're entitled to, speaking prematurely and strongly on just the most recent of tragedies to befall detainees within the CBP's custody.

          A bevy of internet-libertarians rushing to defend Trump and his CBP of any culpability for the death of a child held in a detention center pursuant to a policy that has jailed thousands of migrants just seeking a better way of life.

          Save me your elaborate arguments of how it's not the CBP's fault. Maybe it's not. But if you have to work so hard, maybe your effort should tell you something. What's it got to take to get your attention? Cattle cars taking migrants to incinerator ovens?

          1. You're fucking idiotic. The timeline and details have already been published.

            1. The timeline and details have already been published.

              Your link is broken.

          2. Waving the bloody shirt is OK as long as your intentions are good?

            It is demagoguery, pure and simple.

          3. "Always blame America first!"

          4. I also am seeking a better way of life. This is why I decided to expropriate a flat screen TV from Best Buy. Lets be real, they have enough and do not need it anyways, they have so much money!

      2. why investigate it seems you and the ACLU have already come to a conclusion.

        1. I'd be happy to accept evidence that the CBP did an initial evaluation, reasonably concluded that she seemed fine, and only much later was alerted to her condition. Do you think that's what happened?

          1. Yes. How do we know? We have the signed medical consent forms from the migrant group starting current conditions and no known medical issues. Why the fuck are you arguing from an position of ignorance proudly?

            1. Yes. How do we know?

              You seem to believe you know enough to answer 'Yes.'

              I sense some backwater religious education or perhaps homeschooling may be involved.

              1. Or I look at facts which you are incapable of dummy.

              2. Please go hiking at White Sands with inadequate water supplies.

              3. any of the homeschoolers I know (several hundred) would be fully capable of reading the article as published above, comprehending what it says, and writing responses that are relevant, informed, meaningful. a goodly number of them would also research other reports on the same incident so as to come to an informed position on the matter. NONE would be speculating, imagining, rewriting the story with other "facts" or blaming those not responsible, which would be EVERYONE who is not included with the group as they were detained. Don;t know the homeschoolers YOUknow, obviously not the same lot as I know....

              4. I seriously hope someone beats the ever living shit out of you every waking moment of your useless life.

            2. General distrust of the government usually doesn?t fail us.

              1. even after eight hours wiht no water?

            3. Justifying actions via whether forms have been signed is the perfect indicator of a bureaucratic BS mindset.

              This death actually fits much more into 'where in the hell is the plan for what to do?'. Same as the summer stuff re how to return kids whose parents were already deported. They had no plan in place for EVER reuniting those kids with parents - which is why they were surprised when they still had 300-500 kids in custody months after their parents were already deported.

              Likewise with this case. When 160 people present themselves at a port of entry - on foot - that is in the middle of a desert - and they aren't actually carrying a ton of water and food, then you assume they are ALREADY dehydrated. Soldiers have to be trained to drink enough water in those situations. They don't sign forms indicating that. On what effing planet would you assume that a company-size group of migrants w children is better trained than soldiers re their hydration needs?

    3. If you cared you would know what CPB did as they provided a timeline already. Standard procedure asks crossers for any medical conditions or issues. The girls father said she had no problems. They then began the long trip back to a center, this started from a remote check point. They didn't find this group in the middle of Albuquerque for fucks sake.

      1. Standard procedure asks crossers for any medical conditions or issues.

        And someone who is CURRENTLY suffering from dehydration would have no fucking way of even knowing they are dehydrated to the point of needing medical help.

  5. Buried down at the bottom of the Post article...

    "An initial diagnosis by physicians at Providence hospital listed the cause of death as septic shock, fever and dehydration, CBP said."

    Yep. A parent dragging a child sick with an infection across the desert without food or water is the Border Patrol's fault.

    1. As a side note, I wonder if it was the actual parent or parents. If it was, do they feel like they killed their kid or the USG killed their kid?

    2. Imagine they showed up at your front door. What would you do? "Fuck you, kid, I got my own problems."

      1. and then the kid dies at your house even after you tried to help. The next day the media blasts all over accusations of man slaughter....

        1. We have no basis for believing that the CBP did anything besides put her in a cell overnight.

          1. You are fucking ignorant. They were caught at a remote outpost hours away from any type of medical facility. The Cbp correctly asked the migrants about any medical concerns than proceeded to transport the group after being told no. Why are you so fucking happy in your ignorance?

            1. They were not 'caught'. They surrendered themselves - AT A PORT OF ENTRY. And yeah - that is meaningful because it means that a port of entry has no fucking clue how to deal with a large group of people other than have them fill out forms like its the DMV or something.

              1. How prepared should a port of entry that normally processes only a few people a day be?

          2. Except for every fucking story on this case you fucking retard.

      2. So my immediate response should be "Oh, you clearly need medical attention, let me take you to the hospital and pay for any treatment you want out of my own pocket. It's clearly my responsibility since you showed up to MY house."

        1. Right, like I said: "Fuck you, kid, I got my own problems."

          1. They weren't picked up the downtown Albuquerque dumbfuck.

        2. Well, if you take it upon yourself to place someone into your custody, you're then responsible for their well-being because they no longer can be. The interesting thing here is that the adult with the child (as well as the others) turned themselves in voluntarily. I don't think that fact negates the Border Patrol's responsibility here, since the system, again, agreed to take charge of the child.

          Having said all that bullshit, the child was obviously already in bad shape and we'd need more information to determine if it was unreasonable that her condition was not detected during processing.

          1. I guess I might as well have copy and pasted Dalben's comment below. OR DID HE GO BACK IN TIME AFTER READING MY COMMENT?

          2. I think an important question was whether or not the girl's distress was VISIBLE. I've known many a lethargic child, being carried in their parents arms, after a long ordeal.
            Usually, that ordeal was a long day at a park or other recreation, but I doubt the girl was visibly ill.
            Just "tired".

            I don't think I can fault government agents for taking the father at his word, when he indicated there were no problems.
            Well, besides the obvious, which is why they turned themselves in in the first place.

            I suspect we'll find out that the refugees were given water and saltines, but it was already too little, and too late. I also suspect the father a. didn't realize how bad off his daughter was, and b. was afraid to ask for more help, for fear of being dumped without any
            But that's all speculation.

            1. Yeah, re-reading it I was interpreting it as they didn't give her food or water after they turned themselves in, which seemed egregious, but:

              "The Post points out that while food and water are typically provided to migrants in CBP custody, it's unclear whether the girl received provisions or a medical examination while in the agency's care."

              So chances are they did give food and water and it just wasn't confirmed to the Post yet, in which case the death really isn't their fault. They didn't starve and dehydrate her for days.

              If we get more information and it turns out that they kept her imprisoned for eight hours without food or water after hiking through the desert I'd go back to the CBP sharing blame, but if nothing specifically says that they did I doubt that's the case.

              1. Also, reading the Post article:

                "The agency said it was expecting an autopsy on the child, but results would not likely be available for several weeks. An initial diagnosis by physicians at Providence hospital listed the cause of death as septic shock, fever and dehydration, CBP said."

                So not just dehydration and exhaustion but a severe infection. This doesn't change whether the CBP acted correctly or negligently, but it gives an explanation for how it's possible she could have died so quickly even if she was given reasonable care from what they knew of her situation.

                Obviously if they denied her food and water or ignored signs of severe illness that's one thing. If they gave her food and water and she was just quiet like someone who was very exhausted that's another thing.

            2. Realistically? Her real father is probably somewhere in Mexico or points South, grieving for his kidnapped daughter.

            3. I think an important question was whether or not the girl's distress was VISIBLE.

              Well she was almost certainly running a fever even when first there - cuz her temp was 105 when she went into seizure. That sure as hell didn't jump up 6 degrees in one minute. Do they know how to feel a forehead - or have the equipment to take someone's temperature - and bluntly they should be doing that with every kid who's wandering around in a desert.

          3. This is exactly right Fist.

            We don't have enough information right now to pass final judgment on proper culpability.

      3. Why are you wasting your time on here when someone somewhere is starving and thirsty?

        Why are you not helping them you racist asshole?

        Fucking bigots, they're everywhere. Luckily there's me to tell everyone how virtuous I am, and a nice big gate to keep people I don't like far from my doorbell and community in general

        WHAT?! You're still reading?! You're literally killing babies

      4. Sue the gate guard for letting them in.

    3. The Border Patrol not giving her food or water for 8 hours is the border patrol?s fault.

      1. How come nobody else died from no water or food?

        Must be some lies in the propaganda story?

  6. Once the child is in the government's custody it's their responsibility to make sure she has food and water and basic necessities. So the death is more the fault of the people who took her on a trip in which she wa deprived of food and water for several days. But once in custody the child and her parents can no longer seem relief on their own, and considering they turned themselves in, getting food and water may well have been the reason they did so. So at that point it's the CBP's responsibility to make sure they have adequate food, water, and basic necessities and eight hours is enough time to get at least some of that. So they do share some of the responsibility for the death.

    1. This guy gets it.

      1. No, it's a stupid take and no one is surprised you agree with it.

        No one knows what CBP did. Until we do, assigning them any blame is irresponsible and wrong.

      2. He gets that you and those who share his view are partaking in intentional ignorance? God damn you're dumb Jeff. The border patrol followed proper procedures. They were at a remote outpost, they don't have doctors driving around with them. The migrant group stated they had no medical concerns. Transportation to a more urban environment was hours from the outpost. These are all facts you could find if you didn't choose to be so fucking intentionally ignorant. For fuck sake. Do any liberals read past the headline or look for other information?!?

        1. The border patrol followed proper procedures.

          They did? How do you know this? Not even Fox News is bold enough to make that claim. (Yes I checked.)

        2. They were at a remote outpost PORT OF ENTRY.

          There is a big difference. Port of entry is where one EXPECTS to process large numbers of people - and should be prepared to process an extremely large group as an outlier. Which would include getting someone like an EMT or paramedic to fly out and do their own triage - rather than acting like a fucking bureaucrat and pretending that people know how to diagnose their current condition.

      3. chemjeff radical individualist|12.15.18 @ 10:19AM|#
        "Interesting isn't it, that in cases like these, we are asked to give the benefit of the doubt to the state. "They said they did everything right, and we should just totally believe them!""

        Interesting that the government cannot be trusted to tell the truth but they MUST be trusted to save a dehydrated, malnourished, feverish child.

        Do I also get it? Trying to figure out the libertarian angle here, where am I supposed to trust the government and where am I supposed to wag a finger?

    2. Just imagine if we had a CBP that made the news for heroic attempts to save the lives of migrants they picked up while illegally crossing the border. Instead, we hear about deaths in custody and their detaining people trying to feed and hydrate border crossers.

      1. Maybe they try - sometimes at least - and we don't hear about. Who knows? Headlines that read "sick/injured migrant child saved at detention center" aren't going to get outrage clicks.

        1. If it happened once, do you think the DHS would keep quiet about it?

          1. Do you think anyone would report what DHS says on the issue? Or believe them?

            I mean, I wouldn't personally even while I don't really think this particular case is their fault.

            Obviously the better question is do we think the media wouldn't report on any of these cases that they come across? That they report so few of them makes one wonder.

      2. Hold that thought for about two years, SimonP. It should take better Americans roughly that long to remove cruel, bigoted, authoritarian, Republican hands from the levers of American immigration policy and practice.

        1. Shifting narrative due to leftism does not mean anything changed beyond how much beta males who married feminists get laid

          1. Get pegged, not laid, though I guess some of the betas may consider it the same. Either way, we know who wears the dick in those relationships

      3. I agree, we need to make an agency to collect migrants from the border and deliver them directly to government constructed housing complete with pre-staged paperwork to gain citizenship and benefits. It would be the most humane thing to do. Better yet, SKIP the border, lets just pick them up from their home countries on our "Air Chariots to Freedom." After all, we have so much, how can we humanely say no?

        Now we just need an agency name.

    3. Your internet must be broken. It has been reported in several places that food, water and toilet facilities were available in quantity at the initial holding facility. The only one that withheld food, water, or medical care was her father.

      1. Your link is broken.

        1. Youre right, the buckets of drinking water never got to the people in custody.

          Good thing modern jails have all-in-one toilet and water fountains installed.

        2. Tell Al Gore to fix it - - - - -

    4. So the Post, which has an obvious bias, saying, "We don't know for absolutely positively sure that the Border Patrol gave food or water to folks they know have been in the desert for days" becomes the "Border Patrol purposely withheld food and water from this child" in your mind.

      You fail critical thinking.

  7. Lordsburg, New Mexico.

    Y'all ever been to Lordsburg? I've been to Lordsburg. Not a pleasant place.

    1. Why would anyone visit Lordsburg, other than (1) the misfortune of being born there or (2) a relief mission of some sort?

      1. Wrong turn at Albuquerque?

      2. Why would anyone visit Lordsburg

        Good place to sneak across the border, apparently.

        But you're right, it's a shithole. You'd be right at home.

  8. According to the article, "she had been deprived of food and water for several days" but was only in the CBP's custody for the last few hours of those days.

    I think the CBP is a heartless, poorly trained and often rogue organization but even I can't lay this little girl's death at their feet. This comes across more as the ACLU attempting to exploit a tragedy for political gain.

    1. If she was given water in the last few hours, would she have died?

      1. Alternate question: would she have died if CBP hadn't picked them up?

        Answer: Yes.

        It is sort of sad to watch you begging questions and assuming facts not in evidence in order to come to an emotionally satisfying conclusion though.

        Normally we blame parents for idiotic actions that lead to their kids deaths instead of blaming the authorities who are involved at the 11th hour.

        Distaste for border patrol and culpability for one's own actions can live in the same headspace, yes?

        1. Of course the parents are responsible. That doesn?t diminish the responsibility of the authorities that let her dehydrate. No matter wha the official version is, if a dehydrated kid was given water, would she have died of dehydration? I really doubt it.

          1. Any proof that the authorities let her dehydrate, other than the Post not having ironclad proof they didn't?

            The fact you'd trust the Post at all makes one doubt your objectivity.

          2. I keep pointing this out: We don't even know the dude was really her father. She could quite easily have been a kidnapping victim being used as a "get out of custody" card. It's the new thing since judges ruled you can't hold families until they're deported.

            It would certainly explain his utter lack of concern for her survival.

      2. re: "If she was given water in the last few hours, would she have died?"

        Given that the medical diagnosis was septic shock, the answer is probably yes, she still would have died.

  9. So, shorter story, the father killed his daughter now people want to blame border patrol. Seems legit.

    1. At an absolute minimum, he should be charged with manslaughter.

      And to think that many want to allow in the kinds of sick assholes who would do something like this to their own kids.

      1. I don't know, charging a foreign national for killing another foreign national isn't really our bag, baby. Send him back to Guatemala or wherever. If he shows back up, well at least then we know for a fact that his political asylum request is bullshit. Then we can just HALO jump his ass out of a C-160 over Antarctica. If he makes it back, congrats he can be a citizen.

  10. So who deprived her of water, since those facilities typically have water fountains built into toilets?

    Investigate that and get back to us.

    We'll still enforce immigration law. Illegals can self-deport and be gone from those facilities in a few days.

    1. You have roughly two years left to inflict as much misery on immigrants as you can, wingnuts. After that, your betters will take over and dismantle any remnants of a bigoted, cruel, authoritarian Republican approach to immigration.

      So carry on, clingers. So far as your betters permit.

      1. Like Obama did right?


        1. Keep laughing, Ryan. It will put you in a good mood so you can accept it better when you recognize that you'll be complying with liberal-libertarian preferences and experiencing Democratic Party-led progress for the rest of your life.

          1. Buy a gun and shoot yourself in the face.

    2. Kirkland will have total meltdown after Trump wins reelection in 2020.

      1. 6 more years!

  11. Seems like a parenting problem.

  12. The Border Patrol should have known that she was coming while she was still days away and sent a bus to pick her up. She'd still be alive if they had.

    1. Reminds me of the end of that Matt Damon movie, Elysium. It's not enough that need to give away medical care to any immigrants who want it. We need to go out and find anyone in the world who needs medical care and immediately give them it to them for free. That's how we'll solve the immigration crisis.

      1. Welfare State to the World
        Police State to the World

    2. A bus. What a racist bastard.

      They should have built a hospital there in preparation for her arrival. And a house for her to live in when she got out of the hospital.

  13. The conservatives' take will be that this death, although they will claim to view it as "sad," can serve as a useful warning to other seven-year-old girls.

    1. To not trust their shitty, worthless, irresponsible fathers? I agree

      1. You recognize the irony of using that description in a context of immigration policy designed to please half-educated, economically inadequate, addicted, bigoted, downscale, disaffected, no-count men stuck in desolate backwaters, right?

        1. Throw yourself into traffic on an interstate so cars can repeatedly run over your worthless corpse and laugh about it.

      2. Or he Border Patrol that didn?t feed her or give her water? I agree

        1. Still looking for any proof of that allegation.

  14. Anyone know how many medical staff are posted at this location? Trying to do triage on 160 migrants could have just been the problem. I am not a medical professional so I've no idea if that volume of people all being processed at the same time is overly taxing but it seems like it would be to me.

    1. It doesn't matter how many people come Sometimes.

      It's America's job to take in literally everyone and bath and feed and clothe and house them. And if we don't Rev and other leftists will be here telling us how racist we are.

      Lefty logic:
      1. America is a racist, awful place
      2. America should save the world from itself

      1. Lefty logic:
        1. America is a racist, awful place
        2. America should save the world from itself

        Not quite.

        1.) America is a racist, awful place.
        2.) Everyone should come here.

        1. After they get here, they'll be dead within a week from Net Neutrality being repealed and from the tax cuts. Literally dead.

          1. It's America's job to take in literally everyone and bath and feed and clothe and house them.

            Wingnut logic (to the tune of Trump's 'Ballad of the Forgotten White Male'): Educated, skilled, industrious, successful Americans residing in modern, accomplished communities should subsidize the downscale, disaffected bigots still mired in desolate, shambling backwaters.

            Because sovereign libertarian patriotic citizenship globalism elitists etc. etc. etc.

            1. Drink a bottle of antifreeze and die choking and writhing, you useless rube.

  15. Fuck off reason. The girl hadn't eaten or drunken anything in days before the encounter with BP. Blaming them is idiotic even for you open border assholes.

  16. The way this story is being reported is drawing criticism. Facts are whatever you want want them to be it seems.

    1. The problem is we have the facts already. The media just isn't reporting them for the most part because outrage sells to the ignorant left.

      1. To Jesse, the "facts" are equivalent to "an opinion piece posted on a right-wing website that confirm my biases"

    2. Propaganda typically falls apart under scrutiny.

  17. Deprived of food and water for several days......BEFORE BEING TAKEN INTO CBP CUSTODY.
    A wonderful job of parenting.

    1. Obviously not and she was septic according to the hospital so she was sick before she got there. Likely she had vomiting, diahrrea, Fever.

      However there are lots of cases of parents neglecting children. The question is could something be done to prevent deaths like this when these people are taken into custody.

  18. Thank goodness we have so many libertarians here running interference for the coercive state!

    1. Lies are not a good foundation for policy change.

    2. The same state that must save people roaming across a desert because they did not pack enough water, a compass, or a map? And if the state does not it is because they are evil?

      Again, trying to figure out the libertarian angle here. Thanks for your continued support jeff.

  19. You guys at Reason cheerlead for the exact conditions that entice people to smuggle young children across the desert.

    We're not going to bring in half the population of Central America. So we either enforce borders, or we pseudo-enforce them like now. Pseudo-enforce mean smugglers trekking young children across the desert. That's what you guys choose. Care to rethink that enticement?

    1. Who is cheerleading for smuggling of migrants? No one here, that is for sure.

      If migration is decriminalized, then there would be no need for a criminal underworld to facilitate migration.

      1. We aren't going to let half the population of Central America "migrate" here. It's just not going to happen.

        "If migration is decriminalized" is the same as "if Santa Claus gives every person in Central America $10 million": a complete fantasy.

        1. TANSTAAFL. If you want to maintain the prohibition on free migration, then you are going to have smuggling and the consequences that ensue. Same as with drug prohibition, or gun prohibition, or any other prohibition.

          The prohibition itself leads to the smuggling, not the other way around.

          1. And reality leads to the prohibition. And "what if we had a magical answer" doesn't absolve the sanctuary people for promoting policies that, in combination with reality, make things worse and cause death and destruction.

            Migration prohibitions in some form have been part of every organized nation everywhere, throughout history. And before nations, groups of people defended their territory. It's not something you can undo or wish away.

            1. What "reality" requires a prohibition on anything?

              It's the prohibitionist policies that create the smuggling. Just like with drugs, or guns, or sex, or any other prohibition.

              Your argument is just an appeal to the status quo, with a naturalist fallacy thrown in. The status quo is profoundly unjust. Appealing to it does not strengthen your argument.

              1. You didn't address anything I said. You just name-called the points. What nation ever had borders open to all comers?

                If it never happened, and you don't have a plan that can make it happen, it's not real.

                Some things are real. Others are not. Say "fallacy" and "status quo" all you want: it doesn't make your fantasy any less of a fantasy.

        2. Gallup reports that over 700 million persons "desire to migrate" to more prosperous countries. 150 million of those specifically wish to emigrate to the USA.
          That is unsupportable.

          1. 150 million of those specifically wish to emigrate to the USA.

            I guess that means if they try to cross the border the CBP will be a bit busy then

            What are you advocating? Turn the US into a shit hole that repels everyone who is asked a question on a poll?

      2. Incentivizing smuggling of *children*, because "muh family separation".

        Reward people for smuggling kids across the desert, get more people smuggling kids across the desert.

        It's not rocket science, folks.

        1. No it isn't. You advocating shooting kids?

      3. "If migration is decriminalized..."

        Okay. But no social services, medical care, or schooling for migrants that's not paid for by the migrants or provided by private charitable organizations.

        1. Sounds fine with me. The only thing I would raise an objection to is the education part.

          1. "muh anarchy"

        2. Stop fantasizing.

          It's one of the reasons nothing can ever get better in the US: instead of dealing with the world as it is and trying to make it better, most people engage in wishing and storytelling.

          Fantasy storytellers can never be counted on to support any answers that might actually be enacted to try to make anything a little better for us.

  20. I'm not sure whether the following is obvious or not, but I suppose it should be:

    You don't have to be anti-immigration to be saddened by this tragedy, and you don't have to pretend it's all the Border Patrol's fault because you're pro-immigration either.

    The tragedy of our times is that people think they need to pick their facts to match their biases.

  21. ... the girl, her father ... About eight hours after she was taken in custody, the girl began to have seizures. Emergency responders found that she had been deprived of food and water for several days.

    Only thing I'm taking away from this is that the father killed his daughter.

    1. Yes, but he most likely wasn?t the only one responsible. At a cretain point, the father had lost the ability to feed her or give her water and others have assumed this responsibility - but they most likely didn?t give her shit for 8 hours, probably until it was apparent she was seriously unwell.

      1. You've reached a conclusion based on nothing but prejudice.
        Your emotions are dictated by a fantasy of your own creation that you've mistaken for fact.
        This is the disease of progressivism, aka psychosis.

        1. That's the normal mode of thinking for them: make up an emotional story, decide to believe it.

          Then declare yourself virtuous for caring about the characters in your made up story.

          Next day, repeat on a totally different topic.

      2. You are really fucking stupid.

  22. "deprived of food and water for several days", then eight hours after being rescued and brought to a facility to care for them, she dies. So HOW is this the result of the actions of CBP, Trump, ICE, or anyone other than those in whose custody she had been for those "several days"? ACLU need their heads examined. They are all on about "nasty nasty government its always all their fault".

  23. Nice to have the ACLU play the Hate America First game.

    Man takes a child on a cross country trek to illegally invade America, providing the child neither food nor water along the way. Turns himself into authorities with the child. Child goes into cardiac arrest, and the US takes her to a hospital for emergency care, which fails to save her.

    "It's all America's fault."

    Wait for the punchline in a few weeks.

    I betcha a nickel the guy was not her father, but a human trafficker. What do you suppose the market is for a 7 year old girl?

  24. It's sad and pathetic how many people are willing to run interference for the coercive state on issues like these.

    On almost every other issue of note, most people here will treat the government's actions with a skeptical eye, and tend to give the benefit of the doubt to people who are victims of government mistreatment. But when it comes to immigration, it's exactly reversed! It's the government which gets the benefit of the doubt for acting properly, and the victims of government mistreatment are to be regarded as untrustworthy or with sinister motives.

    1. But the state must save people from dehydration and starvation, yes?

      You are an interesting character.

      1. When those people are in the custody of the state, then YES.

        1. And smokers too!

          If the government won't stop your lung cancer the moment you enter custody, it's TYRANNY!

    2. "It's sad and pathetic how many people actually want America to exist."

    3. What exactly is coercive about enforcing immigration laws? I have no reason to distrust a school crossing guard just because he works for the government. If he can get away with nonsense thanks to union protection or search student's belongings without due process then I have a problem with it.

      The "government" gets the benefit of the doubt on immigration because the media and democrat party has a rooting interest in characterizing ICE and border patrol as monstrous villains. Look how many of them decided to float a ready made narrative despite facts, or lack of them.

      You seriously believe the border patrol intentionally killed the girl, or denied her treatment when she was asking for it, or showed immediate signs of distress? Because those are really the two scenarios in which the border patrols can be criminally liable.

  25. Yes, yes. I'm well aware that Libertarians are for open borders so they feel free waving the bloody shirt of an unfortunate child abused by someone claiming to be her father in order to accuse the border patrol of inhumanity. Of course by effectively taking down our borders it will demonstrate the idea that one cannot have both open borders and a functioning welfare state by destroying America's welfare state. Of course, as Libertarians you can all turn away from the inevitable wreckage of future American children who will suffer as they should, of course, take care of themselves.
    "Our Border Patrol stations were built decades ago to handle mostly male single adults in custody, not families and children". Except it was the unforgiving desert, evil coyotes and incompetent adult "caregivers" that could not handle such children. The Border Patrol stations probably saved a number of lives in this group; unfortunately this girl was not one of them. But, as they say, never waste a tragedy.

    1. " The Border Patrol stations probably saved a number of lives in this group; unfortunately this girl was not one of them. "

      All bad things that happen are the fault of Americans.

  26. Given that open-border progressives blame border enforcement for any injuries and deaths associated with attempted illegal crossings (including those that happen in Mexico), then OF COURSE a death in custody is the government's fault.

    And obviously, for most progressives everything is the responsibility (and fault) of government, so not much of a logical stretch.

  27. Parental abuse. Period !!!

  28. There is a lot of misinformation in these comments. This is what we know now. The reason why it took 8 hours for her to get help - because no one alerted anyone that there was a problem until she had been in custody for 6 and a half hours.

    Around 10pm, a group of 163 migrants (including 50 unaccompanied minors) turned themselves in to just 4 border agents in the desert, 90 miles from the nearest facility. The girl was quickly examined on the scene with everyone else, and appeared to be fine. The father even signed a document stating that. No one alerted the agents that she was in trouble. There was only one bus available, and it took a couple trips, with the unaccompanied minors going first. At 430am, the bus picked up this girl and her father and she started having seizures on the trip. At 6am they reached the facility, and medics were able to revive her. They called in a helicopter to evacuate her to a hospital, and she died there the next day.

    I don't see what could have been done differently by CBP under these circumstances.

    1. No fair! You got facts all over The Narrative!

      "I don't see what could have been done differently by CBP under these circumstances."

      They could have just not been there, and a lot more people likely die.

      160 people *turned themselves in* to 4 border patrol agents for help. They saved all but 1.

    2. a group of 163 migrants (including 50 unaccompanied minors) turned themselves in to just 4 border agents in the desert, 90 miles from the nearest facility.

      That's bullshit. They turned themselves in at the Antelope Wells port of entry on the border itself - satellite image. Which is certainly remote - but IS exactly where one should expect the CBP to - at minimum - have an operating manual to answer what-if's like - WTF do we do if a shit-ton (read company-size) of civilians with kids show up? Let me assure you - they have a manual there because they sure as hell would know who to call for backup if a company-size group of armed men showed up there. And a work location that is that isolated would also have - at minimum - a first aid center with supplies and a cot.

      And the answer in that manual would be - you chopper out a backup crew from El Paso - composed of an EMT and however many armed agents. Because it is the CBP's responsibility to do the transport prioritizing (triage) and threat assessment - not some foreign peasant filling out forms.

      CBP's story here is just an attempt to excuse their mgmt incompetence (the most positive interpretation - since it could be worse). And if SHTF (ie blaming the migrants doesn't work) to be able to blame it all on the agents who are on-scene and make them the fall guys.

      1. You're saying there was no medical personnel and equipment (or there was no medical treatment) at the site where these people surrendered? Where's your evidence?

        The border patrol likely administered first aid treatment to anyone who showed visible signs of trauma or illness. This girl died 8 hours after arriving at the border, but everyone else survived. She was clearly sick from the beginning or something happened during the trip. If the father or the girl didn't alert the border patrol about her condition, what could they have done? Your doctor won't order 20 tests if you can't specify what's wrong with you, and the border patrols are in a more pressing situation.

        The father now says they traveled mostly on a bus and only walked for 90 minutes. He has always insisted that she was fine when they reached the border. If you believe him, then the border patrol either secretly killed her or failed to detect a deadly ailment that struck her mere hours after apprehension.

        1. From what I have gathered that is likely what happened.

          First she is at risk for a viral or bacterial infection because she is traveling.

          The primary miss here is delay of diagnosis. By the time she is on the bus and vomiting she is on the downhill spiral. Mere water is not going to do anything. She needs fluid resuscitation and life support not yet available. Even if they had got an IV or two in her she is in trouble.

          She is at risk, her father has no clue or whatever. It would have taken a skilled professional and an exam to see that she needed immediate help if she looked basically ok when she showed up. Even now in the best of circumstances, people, especially children die from influenza or other infectious disease. She was in the worst of circumstances.

          Yes it can happen that fast.

          Pedialyte in the early stages is a miracle fluid. You can even make it into popsicles and they have flavors kids like. They should have more than water available. Gatorade is not bad for adults. Water, soup, or concentrated juice are not what you need. Then when the individual cannot take oral fluids you go to a hospital.

          All that depends on diagnosis. If you do not see the problem the solution is not relevant.

          Can't blame the border agents for missing a diagnosis which would be something even an experienced ER doc or nurse knows is not easy. There is that point when you look at the child, the home factors, and decide if she is staying or going home.

        2. You're saying there was no medical personnel and equipment (or there was no medical treatment) at the site where these people surrendered? Where's your evidence?

          No med personnel stationed at Antelope Wells. They have two agents stationed there - the four in news reports could be cuz of a recent spike in migrants or maybe two drove the bus down - where they live on site when they are off-duty. Basic med equip/supplies there? idk. That could be the mgmt incompetence because they damn well should have some there.

          The border patrol likely administered first aid treatment to anyone who showed visible signs of trauma or illness.

          Doubt it. Agents stationed there don't have those skills. They are bureaucrat/cops (having people fill out forms) not EMT's. Someone with those skills has to be choppered in. If S.O.P. is - call in backup from El Paso when you have a ton of people show up (160 people is about two weeks worth of people on foot there), then CBP would have said that's what happened.

          The father now says they traveled mostly on a bus and only walked for 90 minutes.

          I believe him. Looking at satellite map, it's easy to see - dropped off between Janos and the border and told to follow the road (the last mile of which is unpaved on Mexico side) to the border. Was she already sick at that point? Prob - but she was able to walk for 90 minutes - which could easily tip the scales but not in a way that a peasant father or untrained agents spot.

  29. No matter wha the official version is, if a dehydrated kid was given water, would she have died of dehydration?

    1. It's a border crossing in an area of zero population zero, with no well. Water has to be trucked in. They normally get a few people at most in a day. Why would they have a water tank big enough for 160 people? Or enough agents to properly handle such a crowd?

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