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Reason Roundup

Let's Repeal These Bad Booze Laws Next: Reason Roundup

Plus: RIP The Weekly Standard?, America loves exercise science, and court says no to ban on speech promoting illegal immigration.

Elizabeth Nolan Brown | 12.5.2018 9:35 AM

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Large image on homepages | Ingram Publishing/Newscom
(Ingram Publishing/Newscom )
Ingram Publishing/Newscom

Happy Repeal Day! Indiana only lets gas stations sell beer if the beverages are warm. Ohio bans alcohol ads from featuring Santa Claus (and many states stop alcohol sales on Christmas). In Utah, mini liquor bottles are banned, but in Washington, D.C., purchasers must buy six at a time.

The prohibition era may be long past, but America is still awash with puritanical, patronizing, cronyist, and otherwise crappy booze laws. To celebrate the 85th anniversary of the U.S. alcohol ban's repeal—and encourage us to stop repeating the era's mistakes—the R Street Institute has ferreted out "America's Dumbest Drinking Laws" that are still on the books.

"While prohibition has indeed been relegated to the dustbin of history, we're still far from free when it comes to drinking," write R Street's Jarrett Dieterle and Daniel DiLoreto. "Even today, alcohol continues to be subjected to a host of nonsensical, onerous and sometimes downright silly restrictions."

Dieterle and DiLoreto scouted bad laws to put together "the definitive list of the Worst Booze Laws in America," singling out 12 top offenders. Among them:

• Alabama's prohibition on alcohol labels that feature "a person posed in an immoral or sensuous manner."

• A federal law that prohibits distilleries on Native American land. "In 1834, Andrew Jackson signed a law banning distilleries on Native American lands," notes the report:

During that time in American history, the condescending myth of the "drunken Indian" was pervasive and led to a whole host of paternalistic laws being implemented regarding tribal lands and booze. … In 2015, the Confederated Tribes of the Chehalis Reservation in Washington State attempted to open a distillery on their land, only to be rebuffed. They and others have tried to pressure Congress to scrap this outdated and offensive law but, so far, to no avail.

A bill passed by Congress last week would change this and is awaiting the president's signature.

• Idaho's ban on infused liquor.

• Virginia ratio rules requiring restaurants with liquor licenses to sell at least $45 of food and non-alcoholic beverages for every $55 worth of liquor—a rule that has thwarted craft cocktail bar scene in the state.

One bad booze law not on the R Street report has been getting attention around these parts lately: a Virginia ban on happy hour advertising. "In the Old Dominion, it's legal for businesses to offer happy hour. It's just illegal for them to talk about it," explained the Pacific Legal Foundation's Anastasia Boden at The Washington Post last week. More:

Those that dare to advertise the happy-hour price of a beer or use creative terms such as "Sunday Funday" to pitch the demon rum face big fines or a suspended permit from the state's Alcoholic Beverage Control Authority.

Restaurant owner Geoff Tracy is challenging the law on First Amendment grounds, with a lawsuit filed in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia.

FREE MINDS

RIP The Weekly Standard? The publisher of the once-venerated neo-con magazine is reportedly killing it in order to direct its focus to another property, The Washington Examiner. Clarity Media Group announced Monday that the Examiner will expand to national distribution starting in January.

"This is not about dwindling subscribers," one inside source told Vox's Jane Coaston. "This is about strip-mining TWS for its assets"—subscriber lists, etc.—and that's why a potential sale to other owners was nixed.

FREE MARKETS

"Exercise science" is now America's fastest-growing college major. Ira Stoll suggests that "organized exercise is challenging the humanities and traditional religion as a place where people seek community, meaning, and discipline."

Evidence for this assertion can be found in the latest data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Fitness instructors and trainers rose from 182,280 in 2004 to about 280,080 in 2017. "If the federal statistics are accurate," writes Stoll, "America has added about 100,000 yoga instructors, personal trainers, and spin class teachers in the past 14 years or so, but only about 14,000 ministers, rabbis, priests and imams."

QUICK HITS

• It's not OK to criminalize speech that encourages illegal entry into—or illegal stays—in the U.S., per a new ruling from the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals yesterday.

• Rudy Giuliani goes full Clueless Old on Twitter after accidentally inserting an anti-Trump hyperlink into his own tweet.

• "Why the policing of the world's oldest profession is still caught between science and morality": a interactive article at Atavist takes a look at the challenges criminalized sex workers face in South Africa and the Netherlands.

• On sex work decriminalization versus legalization:

A million times this. PEOPLE are not OBJECTS, and you can't regulate the two things exactly the same way. If you wish examples of how sex work businesses could be fairly and safely regulated, just look to the laws of New Zealand or New South Wales. https://t.co/51dZozdFKu

— Mistress Matisse (@mistressmatisse) December 5, 2018

• ICYMI yesterday: advocates are now insisting that women make only 49 cents for every dollar a man does.

• A little bit of good economic news, brought to you by J.D. Tuccille and the Tax Foundation.

• More good news: Michael Avenatti won't run for president in 2020.

• And even more good news: The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel is back.

Start your day with Reason. Get a daily brief of the most important stories and trends every weekday morning when you subscribe to Reason Roundup.

This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

NEXT: Woah! More Than 1,100 People Donated to Reason This Week

Elizabeth Nolan Brown is a senior editor at Reason.

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  1. Rufus The Monocled   6 years ago

    Hello.

    1. Ordinary Person   6 years ago

      Sup.

      1. Rufus The Monocled   6 years ago

        Sup? I tell you sup. 16 comments and still no Fist.

        1. BestUsedCarSales   6 years ago

          Still no Fist. Now I'm scared.

          1. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

            He's leading from behind.

            1. Fist of Etiquette   6 years ago

              Another "Day without Fist of Etiquette" so that I'm not taken for granted.

  2. BigT   6 years ago

    "the condescending myth of the "drunken Indian" was pervasive "

    While it may be condescending, hasn't it been determined that some have a lesser ability to metabolize alcohol?

    1. BestUsedCarSales   6 years ago

      Let me look. Last study I read for that seemed to show, no, it's not actually true. The rate of alcoholism is indeed very high among Indians. But they don't have any special biological weakness to it. Other than some still have the East Asian thing where they get very blush.

      1. MatthewSlyfield   6 years ago

        I read recently that:

        Native Americans have lower levels of the enzymes that metabolize alcohol. This would mean slower metabolization of alcohol,which would mean that when they do get drunk they stay drunk longer.

        However, more recent studies indicate that there is no link between the slower metabolization of alcohol and rates of alcoholism.

        1. BestUsedCarSales   6 years ago

          Perhaps that's what I read. I haven't had time to look it up today, so probably just ignore me.

        2. Ben of Houston   6 years ago

          The rates of alcoholism are better correlated to the widespread unemployment and poor job opportunities. People get depressed and bored and turn to drink. It happens planetwide.

    2. Bubba Jones   6 years ago

      The Navajo are pretty adamant about banning alcohol.

      1. Red Rocks White Privilege   6 years ago

        My wife worked on one of their reservations--not the big one at the AZ/NM border, but a smaller one in central NM, and let's just say that Prohibition works about as well there as it did in the US at large during the 1920s.

      2. Earth Skeptic   6 years ago

        Yeah, the tribes are very eager to replace White Man paternalism with the Red Man version.

    3. Rich   6 years ago

      the condescending myth

      Nice band name.

  3. OpenBordersLiberal-tarian   6 years ago

    The Washington Post has a useful summary of potential 2020 Democratic candidates. Of course my top 3 are mentioned (Harris, Gillibrand, Warren) but I was surprised how many others there are. So many exciting voices that have a lot to offer libertarians.

    More good news: Michael Avenatti won't run for president in 2020.

    I liked him a few months ago when he was part of the fight to #CancelKavanaugh. But with his explicit rejection of #AbolishICE, and the allegations of domestic violence, I'm glad he's not running. The Democratic Party is moving toward the Koch / Reason position on immigration, so the last thing we want is a Democratic President who supports enforcing a national border. Leave that white nationalist nonsense for the Republicans.

    1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug   6 years ago

      WHERE MY COUNTRY GONE?

      1. OpenBordersLiberal-tarian   6 years ago

        Who are your top 3 2020 Democrats, Mr. Buttplug? I bet you'll be more motivated than ever to vote in 2020 after Republicans stole the governorship in your state in 2018.

        1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug   6 years ago

          They all suck.

          The only one who has said something I like is Howard Schultz - who wants to cut spending and deficits.

          "I think the greatest threat domestically to the country is this $21 trillion debt hanging over ... America and future generations."

          Of course no one else of either party cares about this.

          He is doomed.

          1. Rufus The Monocled   6 years ago

            Schultz ran a woke company. He'll do no such thing.

            1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug   6 years ago

              Schultz is a real business man unlike Tariff Man.

              1. Rufus The Monocled   6 years ago

                Right. Because you don't Trump doesn't mean he's not a 'real' business man.

                Please.

                1. loveconstitution1789   6 years ago

                  Buttplugger is furious that Trump is running the federal government like a CEO with a shitty Board that refuses to back what is good for the company....and the CEO is doing great.

          2. Sarah Palin's Buttplug   6 years ago

            It does say something that the only recent Presidents who cared about the deficit were Bill Clinton and Obama while Dumbya and The Dotard never gave a flying fuck about deficits.

            1. a ab abc abcd abcde abcdef ahf   6 years ago

              Obama? What a joke!

              Bill Clinton's only interest was getting along to get along and get re-elected. He no more cared about deficits than he cared about #MeToo.

              1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug   6 years ago

                Obama campaigned on cutting the deficit in half then did it. Budget Control Act of 2011.

                Same with Clinton. His Omnibus 1993 got zero GOP votes.

                I deal with facts - not conservative horse shit you hear on redneck AM radio.

                1. BigT   6 years ago

                  "Obama campaigned on cutting the deficit in half then did it."

                  Yeah, the debt doubled despite O'Bamas fiscal restraint.

                  Oh, wait....

                  1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug   6 years ago

                    The DEBT doubled thanks to Dumbya's $1.2 trillion deficit and shitty economy that was handed to Obama.

                    The DEFICIT is all a POTUS can deal with, moron.

                    By Jeanne Sahadi, CNNMoney.com senior writer
                    Last Updated: January 7, 2009: 5:00 PM ET

                    NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) -- The U.S. budget deficit in 2009 is projected to spike to a record $1.2 trillion, or 8.3% of gross domestic product, the Congressional Budget Office said Wednesday.

                    (before Obama was sworn in)

                    The Bushpigs wrecked the budget with their surveillance state, wars, welfare programs and tax cuts.

                    1. BigT   6 years ago

                      Let's see, 2001-2009 debt increased by $5 T, 2009-2017 debt increased by $10 T. And of course something funny happened in 2008 that impacted 2009. What was that, I just can't remember...

                    2. a ab abc abcd abcde abcdef ahf   6 years ago

                      So what? Bush's deficit doesn't preclude Obama from also contributing. It ain't a zero-sum game. Obama didn't come into office and say "oh gosh darn, Bush beat me to it with debt debt debt, I will have to play some other game."

                    3. Sarah Palin's Buttplug   6 years ago

                      So what? Bush's deficit doesn't preclude Obama from also contributing.

                      Obama contributed NOTHING to the record $1.2 trillion deficit Bush left in Jan 2009. By 2016 the deficit was less than $500 billion.

                      Those are FACTS.

                      As noted below timing has a lot to do with it - (the Financial Collapse).

                      Now THE DOTARD is pushing it back up over $1 Trillion in a sound economy. WHY DO YOU AVOID THAT FACT?

                    4. Mickey Rat   6 years ago

                      So Obama did not vote for any spending increases while he was Senator?

                      He did campaign for president more than doing the job he was elected to, but still...

                2. Red Rocks White Privilege   6 years ago

                  Obama campaigned on cutting the deficit in half then did it. Budget Control Act of 2011.

                  Fucking LOL that you cite a law that he only signed kicking and screaming.

                  1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug   6 years ago

                    Liar. He negotiated it alone with Boehner.

                    1. Red Rocks White Privilege   6 years ago

                      Liar. He negotiated it alone with Boehner.

                      Stop making shit up, hicklib.

                    2. chemjeff radical individualist   6 years ago

                      Obama didn't negotiate the Budget Control Act alone with Boehner.

                      But it was a compromise between Obama, Biden, McConnell, Reid & Boehner that all sides eventually did agree to.

                      It's a bit unfair to give Obama the credit alone for reducing the deficit. All parties to the compromise deserve credit for that.

                3. bevis the lumberjack   6 years ago

                  Obama was given a layup as to reducing the deficit due to the fact that the housing bubble burst in the last few months of the Bush presidency and the deficit exploded because of that. I know you're one of those types that attributes everything up to and including the weather to whoever happens to be president that day, but it's hard to lay the housing bubble on Bush.

                  You could have literally had a potted plant as president between 2009 and 2012 and the deficit would have gone down. But give Obama credit anyway since you like the guy.

                  Oh, and let's not discuss that the Obama years - every fucking one of them - benefited from having in place an unprecedented Fed policy of a fed funds rate of zero. Doesn't fit with your narrative.

                  1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug   6 years ago

                    Obama was given a layup as to reducing the deficit

                    Perhaps.

                    So why is the Con Man adding $2-300 billion to the deficit in a sound economy?

                    1. bevis the lumberjack   6 years ago

                      "Perhaps."

                      Not perhaps. It's indisputable. The deficit went from $450B in 2008 to $1.4T in 2009. Not admitting things that are obvious (like your previous failure to admit that Obama's people caused the Soviet-style Title IX show trials) doesn't help your credibility.

                      "So why is the Con Man adding $2-300 billion to the deficit in a sound economy?"

                      Because he's an idiot?

                    2. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

                      They are all horrible on spending. It isn't hard to admit. There is no need to defend any of them.

                4. Dillinger   6 years ago

                  O campaigned on a lotta shit he didn't do.

                5. DesigNate   6 years ago

                  How many times do you have to be beat down on this topic before you give up and stop sucking Obama's cock.

            2. chipper me timbers   6 years ago

              "It does say something that the only recent Presidents who cared about the deficit were Bill Clinton and Obama while Dumbya and The Dotard never gave a flying fuck about deficits"

              Let's not mince words. When a proggie is wringing their hands over the deficit they really just want to raise taxes.

              If there were no deficits they'd be wringing their hands about something else that just happens to be 'solved' by raising taxes.

              I've never heard a proggie once voice concern about Leviathan and spending levels.

          3. Anomalous   6 years ago

            Schultz Venti Venti!

        2. Weigel's Cock Ring   6 years ago

          Washington D.C. isn't a state and doesn't have a governor.

      2. Ken Shultz   6 years ago

        Your country? You mean Venezuela?

        I heard your country is fleeing for Colombia and Brazil by the millions.

        http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....misphere/?

    2. Rufus The Monocled   6 years ago

      If you're a man and vote for Warren or voted for Hillary, it may be time to switch underwear brand.

      1. Ken Shultz   6 years ago

        Hillary seemed to be revving up for a run again at one point.

        Harris v. Hillary v. Gillibrand v. Warren splits the party two ways. It's all about raising money for the Democrats, and Hillary and Warren are way out ahead of that. Hillary has had an ongoing national donor network since the 1990s, and Warren has built one over the last few years. I don't think the others stand much of a chance against that.

        I'd rather have Trump than Warren. Warren is openly hostile to capitalism. She was the source of that "You didn't build that" speech that Obama was copying. She'd been saying it donor meetings for a long time.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKV4fLlNY0I

        Skip to 1:10

        That's just a small part of that fundraiser speech. I would never never never never never never never never support a president who says shit like that. She hates capitalism, and she hates capitalists.

        P.S. Never

        1. BigT   6 years ago

          Love to see Liawatha run. Perfect loser.

        2. Rufus The Monocled   6 years ago

          Except when she profits off foreclosed homes then capitalism is okay.

        3. Rufus The Monocled   6 years ago

          I remember seeing that.

          Love how she says 'the rest of us paid' on the assumption the person profiting off a successful business didn't pay their taxes into those services up to that point. Beyond that, she presumes all businesses don't pay 'their fair share'.

          So disingenuous on so many levels.

          Of course TYT would 'love that'.

      2. loveconstitution1789   6 years ago

        To be fair, Hillary does wear underwear with dickholes in 'em.

    3. Zeb   6 years ago

      Why the hell is everyone responding to this lame and obvious parody as if it's a real person?

  4. Ryan (formally HFTO)   6 years ago

    advocates are now insisting that women make only 49 cents for every dollar a man does.

    It will never end with progressives. The sooner you figure that out the better. Their utopia is not libertarian in the slightest

    1. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

      Retards are now insisting.....

      1. Ryan (formally HFTO)   6 years ago

        Today we have a senator saying the future is female and intersectional.

        I repeat... a senator.

        The future isn't about equality to them, it never was. It's payback for their hurt feelings and disappointment in evolutionary outcomes

  5. Conchfritters   6 years ago

    Bad booze laws are a function of States rights. When the repealed prohibition, they didn't say you can buy booze wherever you want to - they punted back to the States. As imperfect as it is, the country would be better if we deferred to the States on a host of different issues.

    Being a good Minnesotan, I'm going to celebrate Repeal Day by finding Andrew Volstad's grave so I can go take a pee on it.

    1. a ab abc abcd abcde abcdef ahf   6 years ago

      They did not "punt back to the states". They gave the states new powers. If the 21st amendment had simply repealed the 18th amendment, we'd be a lot better off.

      Section 2. The transportation or importation into any State, Territory, or possession of the United States for delivery or use therein of intoxicating liquors, in violation of the laws thereof, is hereby prohibited.

      1. Eddy   6 years ago

        Officially killing the "original package" doctrine.

  6. Ken Shultz   6 years ago

    About the Weekly Standard, it's really about their neocon hatred of Trump and his pragmatism--going back to before he became president. The president always sets the ideology of the party in power. As I wrote in the other thread, the neocons probably belong in the Democratic Party anyway. The argument for invading Syria is a lot like the argument for keeping the drug war going in New York City, Philadelphia, or Newark. The beatings will continue until morale improves! Isn't that what progressives are all about?

    Incidentally, if Trump's capture of the average union worker sticks and those folks stay in the Republican Party, the Democrats may become the party of free trade. The House Republicans in 2020 will start claiming they were always the party of economic nationalism--like Big Brother was always at war with Eastasia. Yeah, the Democrats are in the pockets of the union leadership, but they'll follow their dues-paying members eventually. And the Democrats will probably hold onto the government employee unions.

    Has a government worker ever lost a job because of free trade?

    1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug   6 years ago

      Trump and his pragmatism

      Tariff Man is pragmatic?

      What he does not know is what he really wants. On more than one occasion he has given the impression that he thinks tariffs are a good strategy for increasing government revenue, as if the few billions we will collect from duties on steel are offset by the $1.5 trillion in tax cuts his administration threw out the window last December. His grasp of the newly renegotiated NAFTA appears shaky at best. He didn't even know where to sign the damn thing. While it is a significant improvement over what came before it, both for American workers and their foreign counterparts, it could and should have gone much further. Does he understand this? Does he care? Or was it just about the photo op?

      The Week

      1. Ken Shultz   6 years ago

        You're an ignoramus.

        "Realpolitik (from German: real; "realistic", "practical", or "actual"; and Politik; "politics", German pronunciation: [?e?a?lpoli?ti?k]) is politics or diplomacy based primarily on considerations of given circumstances and factors, rather than explicit ideological notions or moral and ethical premises. In this respect, it shares aspects of its philosophical approach with those of realism and pragmatism. It is often simply referred to as "pragmatism" in politics, e.g. "pursuing pragmatic policies". "

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Realpolitik

        1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug   6 years ago

          You mean The Dotard (who is exclusively the subject of the quote) is the ignoramus.

          I said nothing.

          And you call him "pragmatic"?

          You're a foolish idiot.

        2. BigT   6 years ago

          Arguing with an idiot is like wrestling a pig...

          1. BigT   6 years ago

            Plug being the idiot

            1. Ken Shultz   6 years ago

              He's an ignoramus.

              Shrike doesn't know what pragmatism means, and he's arguing about how I used the word.

              1. Sarah Palin's Buttplug   6 years ago

                Bush 41 was pragmatic. He is known for dealing with reality and opponents.

                The idea that Tariff Man is pragmatic is laughable.

                It shows that you are a moron.

                1. Red Rocks White Privilege   6 years ago

                  The idea that Tariff Man is pragmatic is laughable.

                  The idea that you're not an 85 IQ hicklib even more so.

                2. BigT   6 years ago

                  Trump is rude and vulgar. That does not mean he is not pragmatic as well.

                  Drop the TDS and become more rational.

                3. Ken Shultz   6 years ago

                  How do you think the ideological neocons felt about Trump collaborating with Putin and Putin's allies to fight ISIS?

                  Do you think Trump is pragmatic relative to the neocons?

                  Watching you fall into the hole you dug was funny. Watching you fall into it over and over again is hilarious!

                  1. DesigNate   6 years ago

                    I get immense pleasure seeing shrike full throatedly support the people that worked towards and continue to want us to engage in even more warfare, all while decrying Bush for Iraq.

                    (SLD about Iraq)

          2. Dillinger   6 years ago

            giant pig on Drudge favored in every match.

    2. loveconstitution1789   6 years ago

      The Democratic Party is dying, so their remaining members will be Socialists like Tony and Buttplugger.

      The Libertarian Party will be the only party to advocate for free market.

      1. Hank Phillips   6 years ago

        You misspelled "is"

  7. a ab abc abcd abcde abcdef ahf   6 years ago

    Fitness instructors and trainers rose from 182,280 in 2004 to about 280,080 in 2017.

    I smell an occupational licensing opportunity, and what a bonanza it will be!

    1. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

      I hope all that yoga is being taught by real red-dot Indians.

    2. Unicorn Abattoir   6 years ago

      Already is in some states.

  8. Bubba Jones   6 years ago

    "rule that has thwarted craft cocktail bar scene in the state."

    Reason contributors hardest hit.

    1. BestUsedCarSales   6 years ago

      I'm more and more often finding a dearth of people willing to make me a Screwdriver. And it's not like I can make one of those myself.

  9. Rich   6 years ago

    "Exercise science" is now America's fastest-growing college major.

    Well, no wonder women make only 49 cents for every dollar a man does.

    1. BigT   6 years ago

      Free range twerkers are taking money from those exercise queens!

    2. Rufus The Monocled   6 years ago

      Back in the 90s the sister of a girl I dated was a fitness fiend. A body to die for. She tried so hard to have a career in that field but realized it wasn't going to pay the bills and went on to something else.

      Going into debt for fitness doesn't strike me as wise.

      1. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

        Cool story bro. The article says the number of people employed in the general field has grown dramatically, so it looks like some people are finding work. If the field was a dead end, the numbers would be declining.

        1. Red Rocks White Privilege   6 years ago

          If the field was a dead end, the numbers would be declining.

          Or, these students think it's going to be easy money and they'll move on to something else once the bills pile up.

          1. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

            The article talked about more students in the field but it also said the EMPLOYMENT in the field was way up.

            1. Red Rocks White Privilege   6 years ago

              So is employment at government and university administrations, but that doesn't mean those fields aren't their own form of dead end for Gender Studies majors.

              1. Overt   6 years ago

                There was an article about the fitness industry posted here or on instapundit. The fact is that personal trainers are now a big career. Like craft brewing has been disrupting the big brewers, botique fitness centers are disrupting the 24 Hour Fitness-Big-Box industry by offering niche fitness programs and generally more personal interaction. This industry has been growing huge amounts and education is probably 5 years behind the trend.

                1. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

                  Sorry, people who know what they are talking about are not allowed in this thread.

        2. Rufus The Monocled   6 years ago

          a) I was specifically responding to Rich's quote he took from the post above. It was just an off the cuff of that.

          b) It doesn't mean because there's more work it still justifies getting into debt for. We keep hearing how many law students are in debt and can't pay it off so they same fate, I presume, awaits them.

          It's not a field that pays a lotta dough is my point. Enough to pay off a debt quickly anyway.

          1. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

            You told a story about one girl with a nice ass who didn't make it work in the 90's. Do you know what kind of pay fitness professionals make nowadays? Do you know that it is really a worthless major? As I said, the article cites employment in the field is way up. (increase of 100,000, about 55% in 13 years). It might be a good field these days. Prove me wrong.

            1. Red Rocks White Privilege   6 years ago

              An increase of 100,000 in nearly a decade and a half isn't exactly a scintillating increase.

              1. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

                Did you see the 55%? It means more than the gross numbers. Odd that you didn't mention it.

            2. Rufus The Monocled   6 years ago

              I didn't say it was worthless. I merely pontificated do they make enough to cover a student debt?

              Increase in in a field doesn't mean it pays more.

              Of all things to get riled over.

              1. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

                You implied it was a bad move by citing a 90's example. Just wondering if you know what you're talking about or talking out your ass.

                If you talk out your ass, you'll get challenged here. If you've got some basis for your view, state it. If a 90's anecdote is all there is, just say so.

                1. Rufus The Monocled   6 years ago

                  Tom,

                  I did say it right off the top.

                  And did state it. And responded. TWICE. Two times more than I should have.

                  If you want to be a dick go right ahead.

                  You challenge was met. You didn't like it. You don't get to claim others 'talk out of their ass'.

                  Sometimes you people are something else.

                  1. TuIpa   6 years ago

                    Rufus, your entire premise is stupid. The only reason anyone is struggling to pay off their debt is because they're too stupid to take advantage of the MANY pay as you earn income sensitive repayment programs. Basically everyone is eligible and the payments are outrageously low.

                  2. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

                    You stated an opinion based on a single 90's anecdote. As such, your opinion is worthless. This is also known as "talking out of your ass". Pointing this out does not make me a dick.

                    Your conclusion in your first post was: "Going into debt for fitness doesn't strike me as wise."
                    That conclusion immediately followed a story of a tight asses 90's fitness babe. I assume they were connected somehow in your mind.

                    Your conclusion sentence implies that a career in the fitness industry is a bad move. Why?

              2. Overt   6 years ago

                I think it is probably a bit of both. I mean, a LOT of college degrees make less and less economic sense these days. However, like health care, fitness instruction is a growing market. And in that article, it indicates that the percentage change is largely because people are moving away from humanities subjects like History and Religion.

                So I'd say that fitness instruction is a heck of a lot more likely to pay off than being a history teacher. And it is a growing industry with lots of options. You can tap into the explosion of niche fitness centers around the country, or join with the healthcare industry and move towards physical therapy. There are a lot more options these days compared to 20 years ago when this type of a degree meant you either found a job with a school/pro team fitness department, or worked your ass off selling your services as a free lance PT.

                1. Rufus The Monocled   6 years ago

                  I can accept that.

        3. a ab abc abcd abcde abcdef ahf   6 years ago

          Or maybe "back in the 90s" was different than 20 years later and you need to learn to read.

          1. Rufus The Monocled   6 years ago

            Oh shut up you idiot.

            Love these smart alec clowns who missed my overall point.

            1. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

              Not sure what your overall point was, but your specific point was caught.

            2. BigT   6 years ago

              Rufus got a boner thinking about this girl and it addled his normally brilliant mind.

  10. Bubba Jones   6 years ago

    Exercise science is a major for athletes. And when they don't let real classes distract them from their sport, they end up as personal trainers.

    1. Rufus The Monocled   6 years ago

      I'd rather respond here. Another anecdote. A casual friend of ours left the RCMP to go open a gym. His wife and daughter are weightlifters and he seems happy with the move. I would too if I was allowed to retire at 43 with a full pension and go off and stat a business. Anyway....

      So I looked at the salaries in Canada:

      https://neuvoo.ca/salary/?job=personal+trainer

      And USA:

      https://bit.ly/2UhYJ92

      They haven't really changed over the years. I remember one guy who made 65k (he was my trainer for my ACL rehab) a year back in....cover your eyes....in the 90s!

      1. Dillinger   6 years ago

        unless you get insta-famous or have your own place there's only enough money in training to live ... like bartending

      2. Overt   6 years ago

        I couldn't find any historical graphs on those sites...are you sure? $70k for physical therapists is a pretty good salary.

        I also wonder whether hourly rates aren't a better measure- and whether sites like those capture the full story. Most Personal Trainers I know are independent contractors who affiliate with a local gym. Depending on where the data comes from for those stats, this may not be getting tracked.

        1. Rufus The Monocled   6 years ago

          Very good money. It affords a nice living.

          I just don't know if that's an outlier though.

        2. Dillinger   6 years ago

          physical therapists and personal trainers not same?

        3. LarryA   6 years ago

          I also wonder whether hourly rates aren't a better measure

          Hourly rates are a good measure only if you work full-time. A personal trainer who makes $100/hour, but teaches one two-hour class a week, isn't going to make it.

          1. BYODB   6 years ago

            Also, as someone who literally pays physical therapists for a national healthcare provider I can say that many of them aren't paid hourly or salary, but rather per visit or per instance. This will obviously vary from provider to provider, but you're comparing essentially a 'health care provider' to someone that teaches yoga on Sundays so you're already doing it pretty wrong. Also, notably, a therapist is a license whereas any yahoo off the street can usually teach yoga, with or without a degree from anywhere at all.

        4. BYODB   6 years ago

          Well if you're going to lump physical therapists into the group, sure, but don't forget that's an entirely different animal and just because you have a personal trainer it does not mean at all that they are able to be a psychical therapist.

    2. Hank Phillips   6 years ago

      In a mystically prohibitionist society, it does sound better than gigolo or callgirl.

  11. Rich   6 years ago

    Giuliani is Trump's special adviser on cybersecurity and he doesn't understand that the link was generated automatically. ... But the most damning part of this story? Both tweets are (at least at the time of this posting) still up.

    "Hey, Rudy, how'd you like to be my special advisor on cybersecurity? I mean, you've heard of Twitter, right?"

  12. Juice   6 years ago

    A clever scamp quickly snatched up the URL G-20.in and set up this page:

    Some people have entirely too much time on their hands.

    1. Drave Robber   6 years ago

      Can't wait for .either TLD.

  13. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

    " ICYMI yesterday: advocates are now insisting that women make only 49 cents for every dollar a man does."

    Vagina monologues don't pay like they should.

    I wonder how much of the pay disparity is driven by professional sports? That's billions of dollars right there.

    1. Mithrandir   6 years ago

      The answer is to legislate that female athletes make all the milliona that male athletes do. As a secondary effect, droves of people will now want to watch the now highly paid superstars!

      1. Mithrandir   6 years ago

        Millions*

        1. Dillinger   6 years ago

          i like it as milliona

          1. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

            That's Trump's wife's pre-nup buyout price.

  14. BigT   6 years ago

    Will terrorists attack the Bush funeral?

    1. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

      I think the Clintons are already there.

      1. Alcibiades   6 years ago

        Taking a break from the "An Evening with Bill and Hillary" tour.

        Hear the parking fee costs more than some tickets to hear that pair of windbags blather on.

  15. DajjaI   6 years ago

    the demon rum

    Part of the reason for crappy booze laws is the way that alcoholism is depicted in media - caused by an evil brew that corrupts the soul. However things are changing. In A Star is Born, Bradley Cooper portrays drinking/drugs as a way to deal with being an aging music star. He has a major blowout and ends up in rehab. Lady Gaga pardons him: "It's a disease." But it feels forced and insincere. Then the ending is not the typical alcoholic demise, meaning perhaps it's really not a disease. This is important because people think with alcoholism you just keep on drinking until you die. Which never was true despite the portrayals. Anyway, movies like this will help to destigmatize alcohol by showing it as a symptom of our self-destructive tendencies, which will in turn liberalize restrictions and thereby actually improve public health. (I thought the movie was boring and a bit preposterous. Though the acting was good.)

  16. BigT   6 years ago

    "Evidence for this assertion can be found in the latest data from the Bureau of Labor Statistics. Fitness instructors and trainers rose from 182,280 in 2004 to about 280,080 in 2017. "

    They must be earning their keep, because Americans are really shaping up.

    Oh, wait.....

  17. Ecoli   6 years ago

    Guillani made a typo. The genius AI email software interpreted the typo as a URL. Some woke guy saw an opportunity to have a few laughs.

    I have a hard time concluding that this makes Guillani a doddering old fool.

    1. Don't look at me!   6 years ago

      I wonder if his password is p@ssword.

  18. Ken Shultz   6 years ago

    Interesting, counterintuitive, neglected facts regarding Madoff:

    "Of the $17.5 billion or so of stolen money for which claims have been filed, they have recovered $13,305,106,370.07."

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/th.....543620951?

    I've heard Madoff cited as evidence of why there needs to be more financial regulation. One case doesn't make a whole argument either way, and let's not forget that the things Madoff did were already against the law . . .

    But how many people know that Madoff's victims are getting a nice chunk of their money back?

    1. creech   6 years ago

      Where was this money found? Some, I guess, was clawbacks from "investors" who had been paid out before the scheme collapsed. But I was under the impression that a lot of the $17.5 billion "lost" was simply never there:
      e.g. If I invested $1 million with Bernie and he later sends me a statement saying it is now worth $5 million, then I never really lost $4 million when the scheme collapsed.

      1. Ken Shultz   6 years ago

        A lot of it was clawback from previous investors who'd been paid out. A lot of them apparently settled rather than have their names dragged through the media as being associated with a Madoff scheme. And a lot of them made huge profits off their investments. The market has done exceptionally well for many of them since Madoff imploded, too. The guys who were doing the recovery said that many of those who settled rather than face a court appearance still made good money even after they gave back all of their principal. Hell, even the people who got paid out before it went bust got screwed!

  19. Ken Shultz   6 years ago

    Show me a country with a tax protest that recently turned into riots, and I'll show you the country with the highest tax to GDP ratio in the world.

    http://www.wsj.com/articles/fr.....544004004?

    I'd feel sorry for Macron--because it's hard to increase government services, fight climate change, and not increase taxes, too. Except I don't feel sorry for Macron--because progressives are authoritarian shitheads and their policy prescriptions are authoritarian and shitheaded.

    1. BYODB   6 years ago

      Yeah, I don't feel sorry for Macron at all. Nor do I feel sorry for the French people, who have entirely brought this onto themselves by electing retards and devils to their elected aristocracy.

      One of the few predictable things about the French is their willingness to cut the heads off their statesmen, even while sometimes it's more a metaphor than a blood-drenched cleaning of society.

  20. Earth Skeptic   6 years ago

    Neo-prohibtion and other bizarre alcohol laws?

    Fuck all puritans and cronies.

  21. BestUsedCarSales   6 years ago

    Where is Just Say'n? Did he leave too?

    1. Dillinger   6 years ago

      haven't seen that name in weeks.

  22. Ryan (formally HFTO)   6 years ago

    Everyone shut up and read this from Camille Paglia

    https://spectator.us/camille-paglia-hillary-trump/

    She gets it

    1. Alcibiades   6 years ago

      She does, she really does.

    2. Ron   6 years ago

      She does get it but does not realize that everything, regulation and law and person she complains about she has fully endoressed so not seeing the trees through the forest even

    3. loveconstitution1789   6 years ago

      Saw that. The first part was good, then she rambled into Eastern healing methods, blah blah blah.

      The Democrats are fucked when people who can convince others and who used to be on their side are abandoning ship.

    4. Earth Skeptic   6 years ago

      More gadflies!

    5. BYODB   6 years ago


      Most Democrats have wildly underestimated Trump from the get-go. I was certainly surprised at how easily he mowed down 17 other candidates in the GOP primaries. He represents widespread popular dissatisfaction with politics as usual. Both major US parties are in turmoil and metamorphosis, as their various factions war and realign. The mainstream media's nonstop assault on Trump has certainly backfired by cementing his outsider status. He is basically a pragmatic deal-maker, indifferent to ideology. As with Bolsonaro in Brazil, Trump rose because of decades of failure by the political establishment to address urgent systemic problems, including corruption at high levels. Democrats must hammer out their own image and agenda and stop self-destructively insulting half the electorate by treating Trump like Satan.

      Well, Paglia is certainly a provocateur. I suspect that if anyone remains that gives a shit about her on the left that they're gearing themselves up to crucify her.

      1. Ryan (formally HFTO)   6 years ago

        How one can read that and decide to attack her is beyond me. But I'd rather have her attacked than her voice not heard at all. Let the harpies screech at her for all to hear

  23. Alcibiades   6 years ago

    And still no mention from Reason on YAF's victory earlier this week from the 9th Circuit over Berkeley's attempt to suppress their speech.

    1. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

      Free Speech is no longer their balliwick. Too much of it is hateful.

      1. Alcibiades   6 years ago

        "Free Speech is no longer their balliwick. Too much of it is hateful."

        In all seriousness I'm starting to think that's the case around here.

    2. loveconstitution1789   6 years ago

      Too local.

    3. Hank Phillips   6 years ago

      That is decidedly ODD. It also turns out that voters in the Papal State of Ireland just deliberated that women are individuals with rights, even if (unlike altar boys) they can get pregnant. Here is a vindication expanding the LP victory of actually getting a platform plank written into law as Roe V. Wade! So where's the realization that OUR spoiler votes are worth more than televangelist infiltrators pretending to faint at the thought of women having rights? Where is the realization that America is becoming a net exporter of Freedom by example rather than of prohibitionism and support for fascist Juntas?

  24. Dillinger   6 years ago

    >>>Indiana only lets gas stations sell beer if the beverages are warm.

    Indiana teens bereft of ice?

    1. Ron   6 years ago

      we used to put our warm beer in the creek in the summer and in the snow in winter but maybe kids aren't that smart anymore

      1. Tom Bombadil   6 years ago

        Gas stations must sell warm beer. How did teens, stupid or otherwise enter this story?

      2. Earth Skeptic   6 years ago

        We were too impatient and just drank the warm Reingold we appropriated from my father's stash in the garage.

    2. Bender B. Rodriguez   6 years ago

      They abolished ICE!

  25. loveconstitution1789   6 years ago

    RIP The Weekly Standard?

    Later RINOs.

    Join the failing propaganda outlets like NYT, WaPo, CNN, NBC, CBS, ABC....

  26. Rockabilly   6 years ago

    The only thing wrong with the 18th Amendment was that it was repealed.

    Alcohol is bad for you. Even beer can be addictive and is a gateway drug to stronger stuff like whiskey and gin.

    And little children can be tempted by sweeter alcohol like rum, especially when put in egg nog, or delicious chocolates filled with liqueur.

    1. Alcibiades   6 years ago

      mmmm, delicious chocs filled with liqueur...

    2. Hank Phillips   6 years ago

      Translation: want some candy, little boy?

    3. BYODB   6 years ago

      I love how you used the arguments put forward by the FDA in regards to vaping into the context of alcoholic chocolates.

      Bravo!

  27. Bender B. Rodriguez   6 years ago

    RE: Bad booze laws...

    As a partner in a brewery in KS, we had the additional hurdles of 1: a county requirement that at least 35% of our revenue be derived from food sales, which drastically increases our labor and materials cost, and takes up valuable real estate in our taproom, and 2: that selling bottles or cans for off-premise consumption must go through a distributor: we would have to sell our beer to a distributor, buy it back, then resell it to our customers.

    The few other breweries in our vicinity use food trucks to fulfill the requirement, enabling them to "fudge" the numbers when the 35% threshold isn't met. That may be a good option. As it stands, however, our food program is pretty good, and keeps people returning.

    1. Earth Skeptic   6 years ago

      Again, fuck the puritans and the cronies.

  28. Hank Phillips   6 years ago

    ENB may be in for a pleasant surprise. Indian hemp was legal in 1929, but most knew it as corn medicine. Prohibition increased alcohol prices 400% and increased demand for Evercleer and heroin. Heroin side effects increased demand for coke, and asset forfeiture with the above as pretext in the name of enforcement wrecked the economy. By then everyone knew how to make glucose and malt into beer (and roll joints), so excise on beer failed to revive post-Laffer-curve revenue. But now that Gee-Oh-Pee Bush has again wrecked the economy, the current wave of repeal will generate competition. They who cried that Big Bad Mary Jane was kicking sand in their faces in 1936 will again realize that heavy excise taxes make beer less attractive to them that can choose. Pro-choice, as always, means pro-competition and pro-free-markets!

  29. Uncle Jay   6 years ago

    No, no, no!
    We must ban all alcohol.
    It made a lot of good people rich and made Americans sober.
    It doesn't get any better than that.

  30. boyuni   6 years ago

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