3 Broward County Police Officers Made No Attempt to Enter the School and Stop Nikolas Cruz

Others cops who arrived on scene were "stunned and upset."

Amy Beth Bennett/TNS/Newscom

Scot Peterson, the Marjory Stoneman Douglas school resource officer who declined to confront alleged mass killer Nikolas Cruz in the midst of his attack, wasn't alone in remaining safely away from the massacre: three Broward County sheriff's deputies waited outside the school as well.

When Coral Springs police officers arrived on scene, they discovered several officers who "had their pistols drawn and were behind their vehicles…and not one of them had gone into the school," according to a CNN report that described the Coral Springs officers as "stunned and upset" to discover that no one else in law enforcement had dared to take on the shooter.

This news isn't exactly surprising, given that we already knew Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel had suspended two other officers—in addition to Peterson, who has resigned—for their conduct during the mass shooting. Perhaps Israel is not directly responsible for his officer's behavior, though there are other questions he should answer about Broward County's myriad failures in preventing the massacre.

Stoneman Douglas. Broward County. Florida's Department of Families and Children. The FBI. Where does this story of unfathomable government incompetence end?

Comments

[Unicorn Abattoir]

Stoneman Douglas. Broward County. Florida's Department of Families and Children. The FBI. Where does this story of unfathomable government incompetence end?

With 17 dead kids.

[DJK]

How is it unfathomable? Numerous cases like Warren v. DC and Hartzler v. San Jose make it pretty clear that police have no affirmative duty to protect. Why risk your life to save civilians when the courts will protect you?

[Unicorn Abattoir]

We'll have to wait to hear the decision in Voters v. Sheriff Israel in the court of public opinion. They'll be taking up the case in his next election cycle.

[Agammamon]

He'll get re-elected.

[Bearded Spock]

Broward County went 2-to-1 for Hillary in 2016. He'll win for sure if he's running against a Republican.

That's why Israel is pushing gun control and bashing the NRA; he knows what the voters of his county want to hear.

[damikesc]

Indeed. I love how 4 of his deputies sat outside and did nothing, none of his people entered the school, none of his people dealt with multiple issues with the kid --- but the shooting is the fault of the NRA, who has no problem with the laws Israel's folks ignored.

[Dabalu]

"Lean in, listen to me now, and never forget these words: to stop a bad guy with a gun, it takes a good guy with a gun." -WLP

FAIL!!

[Vernon Depner]

FAIL!!

Because none of the guys with guns were good.

[Nige]

Just highlights how rare and arbitrary it is, and how unreliable a defence.

[hartiberte]

I'm making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life.

This is what I do... http://www.onlinecareer10.com

[hartiberte]

I'm making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life.

This is what I do... http://www.onlinecareer10.com

[ThomasD]

He will get primaried.

[modurhead]

+1

[MatthewSlyfield]

" Why risk your life to save civilians when the courts will protect you?"

The courts will protect them from civil suits by the victims. It's unlikely that the courts will protect them from adverse job actions when their superiors in the department decide that their behavior is unacceptable.

[Rat on a train]

It's unlikely that the courts will protect them from adverse job actions when their superiors in the department decide that their behavior is unacceptable a risk to their own jobs.

[JoeBlow123]

Just throwing this out there, if you shined a light on the place where you worked do you think it would come out smelling like roses? Pretty sure mine would not.

[Vernon Depner]

Pretty sure the people in my workplace don't consider themselves a special and privileged caste like the police do.

[Sevo]

When seconds count, the cops will consider it.

[AlmightyJB]

One hour after they hear the last gunshot they'll consider moving forward.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

After the proper forms has been submitted, lost, found, resubmitted, misrouted, and approved.

Fourth Amendment violations will continue with all due haste, however.

[Johnimo]

The ONLY people with an urgent need to act in the face of a school shooter are the teachers and the kids, all of whom we insist on keeping unarmed and unprotected. The left would rather score points about victims of shooting than prevent them or lessen the body count.

[Dabalu]

The left would like to see that psycho-kid never had a gun in the first place.

[Philadelphia Collins]

Yes, with all the gun laws they passed during the Obama regime.

[Nige]

So you're agreeing there need to be more and better gun laws.

[Finrod]

We're quickly approaching Vogon-level bureaucracy.

[AlmightyJB]

Heros

[IceTrey]

Broward county authorities purposefully ignored criminal activity.

https://theconservativetreehouse.com

About 4 stories down.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Racial discipline quotas, like admission quotas, are pretty standard and have been written into desegregation decrees and education policy for decades. The underlying theory is that disparate admission and discipline outcomes by race, are wholly due to racism. This of course requires "overpunishing the innocent while underpunishing the guilty". The problem in this case is that Cruz is a white kid so I'm not sure how these policies, however reprehensible, are the cause of this incident. More likely just standard government incompetence.

[Bearded Spock]

Cruz may be a Caucasian but he is also Hispanic, as his full name Nikolas de Jesus Cruz makes obvious. And as a Hispanic he was eligible to use the racial Get-Out-Of-Jail-Free card.

On a related note, it was remarkable how quickly the Media dropped the "de Jesus" part of his name in their reports. It was there in the first few hours after he was identified, and then *poof* it was gone. I have rarely seen it in any MSM report about him since.

I'm surprised they didn't start calling him "Nick Cruz" in an effort to link him to Ted.

[Nwallins]

Ned Cruz. Dark Rubio

[dave b.]

Hispanics are classified as white, being that Hispanic is not a race

[Buddy Bizarre]

Unless they're Democrats & need to be higher up on the grievance tree.

[Vernon Depner]

No, the term and concept "white Hispanic" didn't exist until it was invented to classify George Zimmerman.

[commentguy]

Zimmerman, which is Spanish for - what exactly?

[Longtobefree]

"He who carries telegrams" - - - -

[Augustine]

Actually the Spanish speakers use "guero" to refer to somebody who is white.

[JFree]

He isn't Hispanic. He was adopted by a couple named Cruz. And according to the arrest report his name is Nikolas JACOB Cruz.

But hey - at least you're a bigot.

[AlmightyJB]

Politically the left only care about using tragedies like this for another shot at restricting the 2nd Amendment. You will not see them come up with other ideas for reducing risk, nor will they address government malfeasance if they admit to it at all.

[Muzzled Woodchipper]

This.

And unfortunately for everyone, they seem to be gaining ground this cycle. They're running the standard SJW playbook in shaming companies, who are withdrawing from anything at all gat has anything to do with gun rights (particularly the NRA).

[silver.]

Indeed, I haven't seen pushback this hard since Sandy Hook. Still, the Newtown shooting occurred under a Democratic president and (I think) legislature, and it was deadlier and all the victims were 6 or 7. Using the PYLL metric (seen when politically convenient), another 300+ years of life were lost in 2012.

I think the media has been demonizing "assault weapons" pretty vehemently since then, so that could be a reason that it's starting to stick. The average Jane or Joe thinks these monsters are using military hardware. Semi-automatic = automatic = what grandpa stormed the beaches of Normandy with = weapon of war. It's even more confusing when somebody who knows about weapons refers to an automatic (autoloader) pistol.

Honestly if they want to scapegoat the NRA that's fine. It's not nearly as big of a lobby organization as laymen think. I found an article recently that said they contributed ~$3 million in campaign contributions in a year (plus another few mil in ads). Bloomberg's 'Everytown' contributed $0.75mil to somebody campaigning for a state senate seat in my area.

[Longtobefree]

Interestingly enough most grandpas stormed the beaches of Normandy with a non assault rifle. It was a semi-automatic, but it did not have a detachable magazine, carried less than 10 rounds when fully loaded, did not have a thumb-hole stock, did not have a folding stock, but did admittedly have a bayonet fitting. But since it needed two or more "bad" things to be an assault rifle, the good old M1 Garand is not an assault rifle. (Using the 1994 definitions because that came up first in the search)
Tell that to the Germans and Japanese.

[silver.]

Indeed, there is not such thing as an assault weapon, and nobody is committing crimes with what could be considered an assault rifle.

I used a Thompson with a stick mag in a WWII video game, not that I'd even consider that an assault weapon. I actually know about guns (and I knew, and forgot, that the M1 was the real WWII US MVP), and I still screw this shit up, so people who see movies with 120round pistol magazines must have a distorted view.

I always heard murmurs about getting a surplus M1 growing up. Seems like you could find one for a few hundred bucks. I wouldn't mind having a Mosin-Nagant, too.

Thanks for the additional comments.

[SIV]

I used a Thompson with a stick mag in a WWII video game

Thank you for your service.

[Vitae Drinker]

http://thecmp.org/

[Sevo]

"I used a Thompson with a stick mag in a WWII video game,"
In the real thing, the drum was poison; the rounds rattled in the tin when you walked, and it would just flat fall off now and then.
Good for gangster movies...

[Don Mynack]

The literally sold them as surplus in Woolworth's for years when I was a kid (70's).

[NYC2AZ]

Well yeah but at the time the Germans had bolt action Kar98k as their standard issue rifle. The semi auto, clip loading M1 Garand was a technologically superior weapon for the time. I don't think that should be overlooked in a period specific comparison. I believe the US was the only country at the start of WW2 with a standard issue semi-auto rifle.

[Sevo]

I keep looking at your handle and thinking:
"Petaluma traffic, this is Cessna 2 alpha zulu, two miles out, entering downwind...."
And I thought the Garand was a '42 issue.

[MatthewSlyfield]

Nope, the M1 Garand entered service in 1936.

[Kreel Sarloo]

Yes, but it didn't make it to all troops until late '42.

The marines who landed at Guadalcanal were still using Springfields.

[Buddy Bizarre]

The marines were slower to deploy the M1 Garand. I think one of the books I read about Guadalcanal said the Marines were stealing them from the Army units after they landed to join the fight.

[EvilWayz]

You are correct. When the National Guard came ashore at Gualdalcanal, the Marines started stealing hteir rifles after combat action. Allegedly a Marine General told the complaining officer that if the Army had problems with weapon retention perhaps some remediation was in order.

[EvilWayz]

The Gun grandpa stormed the beaches of Normandy with had a ten round en bloc clip (not a magazine, a 10 round stripper clip) whose round could go thru a bulleproof vest like a hot knife through butter. And with the exception of the bayonet lug, not an assault weapon by the lefts definition.

[ThomasD]

Garand is an eight round en bloc.

[damikesc]

And unfortunately for everyone, they seem to be gaining ground this cycle. They're running the standard SJW playbook in shaming companies, who are withdrawing from anything at all gat has anything to do with gun rights (particularly the NRA).

I'm doing the same. Anybody who turned on the NRA lost my business.

[Elias Fakaname]

"nor will they address government malfeasance if they admit to it at all."

This. I was arguing my my far left progressive aunt on Monday. When I brought up all of the failures of government surrounding this event, she wouldn't hear of it. It was all about gun control in her limited progtarded mind.

[Devastator]

Most officers are conservatives. Also this news is all over the place so so much for your "the left only care about using tragedies like this for another shot at restricting the 2nd Amendment" theory.

[silver.]

There are Republicans and other pro-gun people complaining about the pitiful performance of law enforcement with this shooting. At this site we discuss the failures of various government entities after every shooting, because contrary to what many believe, officials had extant avenues to disarm several of these shooters. Rarely are such fumbles punished. It's tiresome to always blame a hunk of steel for the failures of humans.

so much for your "the left only care about using tragedies like this for another shot at restricting the 2nd Amendment" theory.

This is not a theory; this is a fact. Bloomberg's 'Everytown' acted particularly fast when releasing the bogus "18 school shootings in 2018" stat on the same evening. It's pretty clear that they keep a running tally of these things in order to capitalize on emotions in the wake of a tragedy, and that's a completely reasonable, though shady, political tactic.The "thoughts and prayers" of the other side are sometimes insincere (especially among politicians), but many are genuine, and well-meaning people have been absolutely eviscerated this time around.

The raucous rhetoric about gun control within 15 minutes of every shooting is trashy, and I suspect the childish tantrums of all involved are disconcerting to the growing group of people who are undecided on this issue.

[Sevo]

Devastator|2.23.18 @ 9:08PM|#
"Most officers are conservatives. Also this news is all over the place so so much for your "the left only care about using tragedies like this for another shot at restricting the 2nd Amendment" theory."

Uh, try to make an argument which is other than "I really have nothing to say".
Get back to us when you can; I doubt that's soon.

[Rufus The Monocled]

That it's 'all over the place' doesn't debunk the "theory".

In any event, given the way they use kids as an emotional ploy, I'd day that alone is a cheap and despicable use of a tragedy for gun control.

It's not a theory. Politicians, media personalities and academics have intimated if not explicitly called for 2A restrictions or even abolishment.

It's not uncommon to read or hear progressives say as much in comments communities, message boards, interviews and of course left-wing publications.

[ThomasD]

"Most officers are conservatives"

That might have been true not too long ago, but not anymore. And especially not in larger organizations.

[JFree]

I haven't seen any actual suggestions from people commenting here either. Just one group of buffoons parroting talking points vs the other group of buffoons parroting talking points.

[Dabalu]

Give me a break. No one is "using" the tragedy. They're reacting to it. You think "lefties" are just sitting around waiting for another mass shooting, so they can rub their hands gleefully and say "hey here's our chance! Let's pounce!! Haha! Take away all the guns from freedom-lovers and then we can impose the Globalist New World Order. Let's go!"?

[Philadelphia Collins]

They claim the gun laws are too lax, and refuse to secure the schools. Their lack of a Plan B shows they have no problem with continued school shootings.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

I gotta blame budget cuts here.

[Scarecrow Repair & Chippering]

What, Reason.com budget cuts reduced your per-comment payment, so you're pouting with bad comments?

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Um, I was referring to the headline of the article. But if Reason is paying for comments sign me up. And I'll accept a reduced rate for the bad ones.

[Fist of Etiquette]

If you nurture a culture of officer safety first, as so many law enforcement agencies seem to do, how surprising is it for the individual officers to take that logical leap from automatically shooting at any furtive movement to simply turtling in the face of actual instead of perceived danger?

[DJK]

^This

[Fist of Etiquette]

They tried initially to sell the fiction that it's to protect the lives of others, but you'll notice in recent years after shooting unarmed people they've dropped the "others" part from "I feared for my safety and the safety of others" from their official justifications. I guess they figured, Why bother keeping up the subterfuge? No one's prosecuting us anyway.

[JFree]

We should hire jihadis as cops.

[An Owl Named Dur]

If it had been a dog in that school, they'd have shot the hell out of him.

[Curly4]

Maybe it is Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel who should be fired he failed to train his officers how they were expected (should) act in cases like this. But this up the voters of Florida. If they don't like the way the police officers acted then change it but if you are ok with they they acted then leave it alone. For me I think it is the place of the police to get between the civilians and the potential harm that could come to the civilians.

[Kreel Sarloo]

Actually, it's up to the voters of Broward County, who will elect anyone with a (D) beside his or her name. Even if that someone used to be a Republican.

[MP]

"unfathomable"

FFS Robby, the whole notion of libertarianism makes this pretty fathomable.

[SIV]

Robbie is not a libertarian and he is not writing for a libertarian audience.

[Fist of Etiquette]

It is worth underscoring the fact that these deputies would also be the ones enforcing the absolute prohibition on armed self defense on the victims in the school. Sure, they didn't do a great job enforcing the weapons ban on Cruz, but an otherwise law abiding citizen would be disarmed and arrested when discovered. So while they are making sure you can't defend yourself, they as the only ones legally permitted to do so aren't defending you either.

[ThomasD]

Rest assured, when they come to confiscate your weapons they will be ready to go in hot and heavy.

[Stormy Dragon]

Starting to sound more like the Coward County Sheriff's Department.

[DenverJ]

https://g.co/kgs/Qzvwno

[Nwallins]

More like cow turd bronies amirite?

[Nwallins]

Broward County's Cow Turd Brownies

Can I copyright this?

[SQRLSY One]

But when there is a danger that you might "flush some evidence down the toilet" in the middle of the night, THEN our brave defenders are more than willing to throw a few flash-bang grenades into your house, blind a baby or two, shoot a dog or two, and THEN bravely proceed! As long as no officer-assets get their hair mussed up...

[Gaear Grimsrud]

Damn. You beat me by 2 minutes.

[Gaear Grimsrud]

The irony of this entire story is that if this kid had been suspected of selling meth, the Broward County sheriff's department would have showed up at his house at 2:00 AM with a SWAT team in an armored vehicle, shot him, his mom and his dog and NO ONE WOULD GIVE A SHIT.

[silver.]

Shoot, it needn't even be something as insidious as meth. The cops know damn well that doing a no-knock raid on some dude(tte) with $100 worth of weed is super safe. If the odds are less than 10x in their favor they don't budge. I'm sure we'll be hearing about how these cops weren't able to enter because they were outgunned. That's been standard rhetoric since the cops really were outgunned in the North Hollywood shootout (illegally-modified full-auto AK clones).

As Hinkle wrote last month, police deaths have halved since 1976, which is a great thing. I think there is a better balance to be struck between protecting officers and protecting citizens.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Why, it's almost as if they purposefully target soft crime and then attack it violently to make it look like it was a big deal in order to dupe media and people into thinking they're badasses fighting crime and protecting people.

Heroes.

[Gluteus Maximilian]

That's the overdue library books response. For meth, they get serious.

[Cy]

They can do it in Cali now for plastic straw distribution. Welcome to the US of A, can you feel the Freedom???

[silver.]

"Where does this story of unfathomable government incompetence end?"

Hopefully with the creation of some new libertarians.

Yeah, right.

[dave b.]

There aren't even that many libertarians here. This place somehow turned into Breitbart lite

[JeremyR]

On the plus side, they didn't enter the school all panicky and shoot even more kids.

So there's that.

[flyfishnevada]

You're a glass half full kind of guy, aren't you?

[Stormy Dragon]

Broward County Sheriff has announced that deputies will now be armed with assault rifles, drastically increasing the effectiveness of their cowering:

Broward County Sheriff: Schools to have guards armed with rifles

[Fist of Etiquette]

They'll have something to lean on while waiting for Coral Springs officers to show up.

[Tony]

And all they need to do to make their case is not to shoot even one innocent child in the face.

It's the school patrol, surely the best and brightest.

[Sevo]

Tony|2.23.18 @ 8:53PM|#
"And all they need to do to make their case is not to shoot even one innocent child in the face."

Poor piece of lying shit manages this as the best he can do.
Fuck off.

[damikesc]

I bet those arms will do great as they are hiding and waiting for competent people to do their job for them.

[A Thinking Mind]

Our schools will not be safe until we have attack helicopters patrolling overhead loaded with snipers and miniguns.

[Tankboy]

Most of America isn't a gun-free zone, so that's why we carry. If you declare a gun-free zone, you are depriving me of my right to self defense. It is now your responsibility to actively defend me. None of this "the cops don't have to defend you" shit - that's for places where my first duty is to defend myself. The school failed in the task they had arrogated to themselves. Don't blame ArmaLite, or the NRA, or even the cowardly guardians, blame the school. They promised something, aside from an education, that they couldn't deliver.

[flyfishnevada]

Government sort of has an obligation to protect folks where they forbid firearms...or so you'd think.

[Emotional Opposition Animal]

If you declare a gun-free zone, you are depriving me of my right to self defense. It is now your responsibility to actively defend me.

That doesn't make any sense. Movie theaters prohibit customers from bringing in outside food; does that mean they have a responsibility to feed them? Many places prohibit people from eating at all.

If the restrictions on private property are not to your liking, don't go there.

[Sevo]

Emotional Opposition Animal|2.24.18 @ 12:27AM|#
"That doesn't make any sense. Movie theaters prohibit customers from bringing in outside food; does that mean they have a responsibility to feed them?"

Were you hoping that piece of idiocy might not be laughed at? Are you stupid enough to think so, or stupid enough to hope none of us would see the idiocy?
Fuck off.

[ThomasD]

The question is: Does it rise to the level of public nuisance, or a hazard? Denying someone the ability to exercise a right, even if you are acting within your own rights, can (note: can, not does, not should) have consequences.

[Emotional Opposition Animal]

No, it doesn't. A property owner has every right to proscribe any behavior he or she wishes to proscribe among his or her guests, without incurring any liability thereby. If the guests don't like the rules they don't have to go there.

[ThomasD]

Other than the kids. Who do have to go there.

[Vernon Depner]

Unlike students in school, no one is compelled by law to attend movie theaters.

[dave b.]

Gun rights are subservient to property rights. No one is depriving you of your right to self defense since you have zero rights to tell a property owner what they can do on their property. If you don't like it, you're free to carry elsewhere.

[Cy]

Large entities that have personnel that usually aren't held directly responsible, Corporations, Banks, Railroads, Churches, Governments, Schools... enjoy an incredible amount of leeway in courts for not being sent to jail. They're just fined. I would argue that as long as the people working for these types of entities can enjoy a bit of immunity to criminal penalties, that the bill of rights should apply to everyone on those grounds, not just government/public grounds.

My biggest reasoning for this, the government has done a very good job of contracting out tyranny using corporations to do their bidding. Then people use the exact same argument that you used to declare that it's private property. But is it really? Can we start being genuine here and start calling a spade a spade?

[dave b.]

My biggest reasoning for this, the government has done a very good job of contracting out tyranny using corporations to do their bidding. Then people use the exact same argument that you used to declare that it's private property. But is it really? Can we start being genuine here and start calling a spade a spade?

I actually agree with this. But IMHO, the problem to be solved is Big Brother outsourcing tyranny at gunpoint. I understand this is a huge and likely pointless undertaking, but the alternative is crappy legislation to spackle over the symptom instead of the actual problem. Then we have shitty precedent for the next 100 years of SCOTUS rulings, being they don't actually interpret things anymore.

[ThomasD]

Gun rights are a subset of self defense. Self defense is not 'subservient' to property rights.

Rights can, and do come into conflict. This is one of the primary reasons for the existence of a judicial system - to, as much as possible, resolve such conflict peaceably.

[dave b.]

Your gun is your property, but on my property, I decide whether or not you can bring it. Full Stop.

[ThomasD]

Your property? Fine.

Public property? Not so fine.

Public property where presence is compelled? Even less so.

[drugwarisevil]

Cowardly cops refusing to enter to face an active shooterr isn't new. Go watch the video of Columbine. The solution to reducing shool shooting is to get government out of running schools and stopping making them prisons that children have to attend. Make school attendance voluntary.

[UnrepentantCurmudgeon]

Cathartic as use of the term is, I hesitate to call the cops "cowardly" without knowing many things, first and most importantly what the rules of engagement were. Is it protocol for cops to enter the zone without backup? Did they call for backup? What were they told when they called it in? All those kinds of things. We might applaud the "hero cop" who charges in, eliminates the bad guy and carries the wounded to safety, but that same "hero cop" might get strung up on departmental charges for ignoring or violating established department policy. That is bureaucracy at work. And ultimately that is Sheriff Israel's responsibility, duck, dodge and deflect as he may.

[Curmudgeon44]

These blue lives don't matter.

[Johnimo]

Oh no, Blue Lives DO Matter. They matter so much that they can't be risked saving a bunch of silly school kids.

[Tony]

Evidently it's time for a small amendment.

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with the gun with a death wish."

Yours,
NRA etc.

[Morbo]

"You don't need guns because the police are there to save you! Unless they're huddling outside, acting like a bunch of fucking cowards and waiting for your assailant to leave."

Yours,
The Democratic Party, etc.

[Sevo]

Tony|2.23.18 @ 8:51PM|#
"Evidently it's time for a small amendment."

Evidently, it's time to call Tony on his bullshit once again.
No, Tony, there is no 'death wish' involved, you lying piece of shit. You'll notice that the little psycho was captured by those who did not wish to die and did not.
Do you, you pathetic piece of shit EVER post without lying?
Fuck off.

[Johnimo]

It's pretty funny just how attracted Tony is to this site. One can only marvel at his tenacity. What the fuck does his above statement even mean, "The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with the gun with a death wish"????

Tony, do you think the soldiers at Omaha Beach had a death wish?

[Earth Skeptic]

No, in the progressive version of D-day, they would have landed on the beach with lemonade and cookies, and explained to the German army how their occupation was upsetting the French people.

[Cy]

No you idiot. Why would we want to risk giving our soldiers diabetes with sugary drinks!?!?!? Think man! THINK! They should've just passed a law in the US that Germany has to take all of their guns and tanks back to Germany and stop occupying all of those poor other European countries.

[Longtobefree]

Sort of like the emancipation proclamation?

[JFree]

do you think the soldiers at Omaha Beach had a death wish?

So you're saying we should bring back conscription?

[damikesc]

"The only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with the gun with a death wish."

Trained 19 year veteran who knows a shooter is in the school v 19 year whackjob who doesn't know anybody else is in the school with a gun. Yup, sounds like "a death wish".

[Buddy Bizarre]

Let's see, virtually every school shooter when confronted with someone else with a gun either immediately surrenders or commits suicide. Where's the death wish come from?

[IceTrey]

God made man, Sam Colt made them equal.

[flyfishnevada]

Don't care what the law requires, when an officer swears an oath they're basically stating he will risk their lives to protect others. If you're not willing to do that, don't apply. On the other hand, if schools weren't gun free zones and they had security protocols that included lethal force instead of just hiding under desks, we wouldn't have to rely on police to save the day.

[ellascottgm123]

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[Sevo]

Just droped in to see if Hihn or the new lefty twit 'the Rev' were still here stumping for outlawing guns after the admission that the deaths were a result of government (in)action.
As idiotic as both are, I see they seem to have figured it out while our resident lefty lying asshole is still at it!
You GO, Tony! We need daily reminders of how lefty politics pollutes the mind!

[Johnimo]

Tony is one of the great features of this web site. It's almost as if he's a character carefully crafted to induce humor and ridicule. Keep it coming Tony, we love laughing at you.

[Cy]

I'm certain he doesn't exist. He's too perfect. To whomever runs that account, I tip my hat.

[Buddy Bizarre]

The good Rev. is a long time Volokh commenter who followed them here. He usually just make quick ad hominem attacks on anyone he considers right wing & leaves. He's not as entertaining as Tony. The funny thing is that he somehow considers himself the one true libertarian.

[Locris]

Admittedly I only skimmed through the comments.
Unless I missed something, or unless he changed his name to Tony, I was disappointed not seeing Mr. Hihn saying something akin to just call the cops.

[Cy]

Someone who refers to themselves as libertarian and in anyway endorses our current law enforcement in the US must be one sick puppy.

[Locris]

"Stoneman Douglas. Broward County. Florida's Department of Families and Children. The FBI. Where does this story of unfathomable government incompetence end?"

Depends.

How high does the body count need to get to in order to achieve the "appropriate" political and ideological goals.

I think terrorists us this formula as well.

[What's that smell?]

So you had 3 adult, paid. professional, pussies who stood outside with their thumps up their asses, while inside 3 JUNIOR ROTC cadet were killed saving the lives of their classmates. If that's not reason enough for Isreal to step down and gut the entire organization then F%CK everything.

[Cy]

To teams blue/red and the modern media, government is never the problem. It's the only solution.

[damikesc]

I'd prefer teachers or armed volunteer parents as guards. They, bare minimum, have skin in the game. The police do not.

A single gun shot from one of the Broward Cowards could've saved a ton of lives, just due to distracting the whackjob.

[Buddy Bizarre]

No, a total of 4 paid professionals. The resource office who is also a deputy & hid behind a staircase(?), the other 3 showed up & hid behind their police cars.

[What's that smell?]

Well I suppose now they could have stellar careers with the New Orleans PD

[Michael Cook]

I am a Vietnam combat veteran and later a law enforcement officer who arrived at a mass shooting when gunsmoke was still visible in the air, although I didn't get to add to it. My son had similar experiences, except he was in a different war and later on hit in the vest by friendly police fire.

You really never know who is going to do well under the stress of actual combat. There is no test for it. In my son's case, the officer who pumped slugs into his bullet resistant vest didn't realize he was shooting at all. The cop was in such shock he didn't remember shooting and reloading until all his ammo was gone, sprayed around randomly.

My son witnessed a female cop arrive and run right through the middle of the firefight to jump on the body of a mortally wounded fireman in an attempt to protect him. She reacted bravely without ever pulling her gun.

[AJ_Liberty]

I agree. Courage comes from many things: developing a selfless character, training, and your gut. Someone can be a hero one day and freeze in battle the next. All of our genetic programming is to protect self and clan....running into a fire fight when you don't know exactly what might be at that door entrance....is hard....especially if you may not have a lot of confidence in your training. Certainly, it is the job....but 99% of the time, it's not what you do. The job isn't for everyone. I want the police to get in there and....try....these deputies couldn't rise to the occasion....they'll have to live with that....me calling them names doesn't serve much purpose.

[Cy]

"me calling them names doesn't serve much purpose."

Yes it does. It reminds them of their failure to stop the killing of children. It reminds them of the years of pay they took with the understanding, that should something like this occasion come along, they were to act accordingly. They failed.

It also reminds the more than 900,000 LEOs out there that their consistent failures in departments all across the country aren't going unnoticed.

[Stephen Lathrop]

Plenty of commenters here so pickled in romantic self-image they don't realize in real life-or-death emergencies genuine heroism is?and always will be?in vanishingly short supply. People who respond heroically aren't usually people in the midst of personal safety, who then choose to set that safety aside to risk their lives. Real heroes are mostly folks precipitated willy-nilly into emergencies, who respond well without having time to reflect.

This information teaches?when coupled with other similar incidents, such as the Gabby Giffords shooting?that arming everyone can't add much to public security. Probably not enough even to offset the public safety downside of everyone being armed.

Think about it. What fool of a teacher would agree to be armed in school? Unlike cops, or even bank guards, armed school personnel will be targeted for murder first?and killed almost every time?because the crime contemplated isn't bank robbery, or any other kind of law breaking, but mass murder.

Suppose a teacher does go armed, but doesn't stop the shooting?maybe doesn't find out about it until too late? Life is pretty much over for that person, isn't it? They get to blame themselves for student deaths, but won't be alone in doing it. Parents of dead kids will blame them. And every NRA crank?as on this thread?will be looking to blame them too?for failing to vindicate the romantic fantasy of safety through gun play.

[Rufus The Monocled]

"...And every NRA crank?as on this thread"

Seriously?

[Dabalu]

Pretty much.

[Cy]

So we weren't brought up as sheep to be saved. How dare we want people to be able to defend themselves like the constitution specifically allows? That's your point? Thanks?

Here's an Ipad, you can go back to playing in the corner while the adults talk.

[Dabalu]

How about about defending themselves by not letting psycho-kids like Cruz have access to high-powered weapons in the first place?

[Cy]

You mean by telling the Federal, State, County, local and school authorities MULTIPLE TIMES of his intent to kill a bunch of kids?

Or maybe by having armed people on site and nearby to stop him in the event he decided to go on a shooting rampage? Yeah, and we could make sure their armed and give them special privileges because we understand they may need them in the event someone might go on a shooting spree?

And cameras! We should get cameras and lock the doors.

That's a great idea! It worked out so well. In fact just ask those 17 dead people how well it all worked out. That's right law abiding people of the country, trust your governments, they'll protect you. But don't worry, if they fail at their job, they'll find someone else to blame.

They all failed. Your solution, instead of fixing the massive failures across EVERY aspect of our government is to take to every American Citizen's rights and restrict them.

It'll just be "Take away der gunz so we can feelz safe." and then high fives all around. Right?

/slow clap

Any resignations so far? Any criminal charges against local or county officials? Oh.. they're too busy speaking at Anti-gun rallies??!!?! That's perfectly understandable.

[Dabalu]

And who exactly is going to fix these massive failures across every aspect of our government? No-one.

What's weird about gun-lovers is how many kids they're willing to have sacrificed while they hang on to their precious "rights". 1000? 10,000? And then they can proclaim how rational they are because Tyranny!

"Take away der gunz so we can feelz safe." No. Take away some people's access to guns so we can actually be safer.

"Take every American Citizen's rights and restrict them." Which is what the author's of the 2nd intended. What part of "well-regulated militia" is hard to understand?

[Don Mynack]

You don't even understand what a "right" is or means.

[Dabalu]

That's what's on the table isn't it? You guys presume rights where none exist.

From Heller:

"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose: For example, concealed weapons prohibitions have been upheld under the Amendment or state analogues. The Court's opinion should not be taken to cast doubt on longstanding prohibitions on the possession of firearms by felons and the mentally ill, or laws forbidding the carrying of firearms in sensitive places such as schools and government buildings or laws imposing conditions and qualifications on the commercial sale of arms. Miller's holding that the sorts of weapons protected are those "in common use at the time" finds support in the historical tradition of prohibiting the carrying of dangerous and unusual weapons."

[Philadelphia Collins]

And if that fails?

[ThomasD]

Cruz went to his school because he wanted unarmed victims. Not because he wanted a gunfight.

[GILMORE?]

This information teaches...that arming everyone can't add much to public security. Probably not enough even to offset the public safety downside of everyone being armed.

no one anywhere suggests 'arming everyone'. the fact you use silly terms like this shows you haven't even taken the time to seriously consider what the issues are.

the issue is that 'gun free zones' like schools are targeted explicitly because there is very very low risk of any armed response.

no one suggests arming anyone who isn't already prepared to arm themselves. millions of people around the country already hold concealed-carry licenses. many are teachers. people who want to carry in their place of work *should not be prevented*.

by taking away the guarantee of a "gun free environment" you are not replacing it with any guarantee of a "secure one". You are simply changing the risk of someone shooting back from "zero" to "higher than zero".

this is how deterrence works. and data shows, 'slight risk' changes the way killers behave. they prefer soft-targets.

unlike your claim of "public safety risk" created by concealed carry - which there is no evidence of.

over past 2 decades, concealed carry has boomed. and gun-violence has dropped.

There is no evidence that concealed carry increases public safety risk.

[What's that smell?]

How long before they officially change the name to "Coward County"?

[I can't even]

That name is gonna stick to the Sheriff's Department a long time.