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Armed School Resource Officer Stayed Safely Outside School While Mass Killing Was Underway

Sheriff on Marjory Stoneman Douglas cop's failure to act: "Sick to my stomach."

Scott IsraelCHINE NOUVELLE/SIPA/NewscomA school resource officer who worked at Marjory Stoneman Douglas was on campus at the time of the mass shooting, but did not enter the building to engage the killer—even though the SRO was armed.

Broward County Sheriff Scott Israel suspended the SRO, 54-year-old Scot Peterson, after watching video footage of Peterson declining to enter the school during Nikolas Cruz's six-minute rampage; Peterson has now resigned, according to The Washington Post.

When asked what Peterson should have done, Israel told reporters in no uncertain terms that the officer had a responsibility to confront the killer and attempt to stop him.

"I think he took up a position where it looked like he could see the western-most entry into the building and stayed where he was," said Israel. "Never went in."

Peterson's failure to act made Israel "sick to my stomach," the sheriff said.

Two other officers have been placed on restricted assignment pending an investigation; we don't yet know whether these officers are guilty of similarly bad judgment.

Make no mistake—Peterson's failure to engage the shooter was a monumental error. We don't know whether the SRO would have been able to stop a psychopath armed with an AR-15, but it was his job to try; he might have at least slowed Cruz, thus saving lives. Why are we paying armed guards to keep schools safe if they flee the very danger they are supposed to prevent?

It's difficult to fathom the depths of law enforcement's collective failure—at every conceivable level—to take any action that might have averted the Parkland tragedy or mitigated the death toll. The FBI didn't follow-up on tips about Cruz's verified instability. Broward County didn't take preventative measures despite receiving more than 20 calls about Cruz over the years. And the officer whose job it was to keep kids safe stood idly by while they were murdered—even though one of the big lessons of Columbine was that lone officers should rush toward the sound of gunfire in school shooting scenarios.

At the very least, these revelations about the abysmal incompetence of law enforcement should shake our confidence that more cops, more security, and more surveillance are the solution to mass shootings—and that the corresponding civil liberties tradeoffs are remotely justified.

Photo Credit: CHINE NOUVELLE/SIPA/Newscom

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  • Eidde||

    WTF

  • Don't look at me.||

    But he got home safe.

  • Res ipsa loquitur||

    Obvious candidate for a 100% pension with full PTSD ratings. Police are only expected to confront unarmed people !

  • Liberty Lover||

    Unarmed kids.

  • Longtobefree||

    And dogs, don't forget the dogs - - - -

  • Trainer||

    Dogs are always armed with those teeth and claws. That's why you have to shoot as soon as you see one.

  • NYC2AZ||

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    They better put this dude on suicide watch.

  • ThanksForTheFish||

    Why, you want to stop him from trying?

  • I can't even||

    Nah. Obviously too afraid to use his gun.

  • timbo||

    Don't cuss this poor guy unless you have reacted in a shooting situation yourself. He dropped the ball and has the rest of his life to dwell on it. I feel sorry for this guy even though he fucked up royally.

  • Don Glover||

    Totally agree, that's why I didn't become a cop. As a private citizen, I don't get to shoot people and be presumed innocent. I could never get away with the shootings that we see cops get away with. The whole anti-gun argument is that the cops are the only ones who need guns. They're the best trained and bravest. If the teachers can't be armed, then the cops HAVE TO TAKE THE RISK. Fuck this guy, not for being a coward, maybe I am too, that's why I'm a bartender and I don't tell others to disarm themselves.

  • I can't even||

    I have. It was fucking scary and the Marine next to me had to be slapped. But I didn't cower and chicken out.

  • I can't even||

    Too be clear - what gave me the ability to overcome the fear was the responsibility I felt towards my comrades. Or, put another way, my even greater fear that other Marines would lose their lives due to my cowardice.

    This sense of responsibility / fear of failure should be even stronger when it comes to protecting kids. I would rather be dead than fail in that mission.

  • Ama-Gi Anarchist||

    This sense of responsibility / fear of failure should be even stronger when it comes to protecting kids. I would rather be dead than fail in that mission.

    This is why I think there needs to be a serious reappraisal of private security firms and their ability to neutralize active shooters. It doesn't help that here in Florida, the Ag Dept. separates our CCW from our Armed Security Permits and does so in an absolutely fucking retarded manner. That and even Armed Security is generally banned from bearing small arms other than pistols (which they finally relented on larger calibers like .45ACP). There needs to be security firms like Detroit Threat Management who can step up and fill this gap (since the Cops generally only give a shit about violating the 4th Amendment protections of people under their "care" when they are SROs).

  • Trainer||

    Thank you for sharing. I think too many people have no idea how many others have been in the situation and rose to the occasion. Yes, he was a coward and many kids died because of his inaction.

  • markm23||

    Suddenly I'm liking this sheriff. It's been a long time since I've heard of a cop being fired for cowardice, no matter how abject the failure. Cops sign on to a job that requires courage, and any cop who lacks it is not earning their pay.

  • Presskh||

    Or put him on potential "assisted" suicide watch.

  • TangoDelta||

    How can anyone blame him? He didn't have SWAT pep talk to go storming in with a shoot first, think second attitude so typical of the now standard SWAT shock and awe style raids.

    Besides, this suspect was actually armed and there weren't any pets or grandmothers to kill.

  • Bubba Jones||

    it was his job to try

    Actually, no it isn't. Precedent is that cops have no affirmative responsibility to endanger themselves to save you. Same as firefighters not being allowed to risk themselves to save you.

    You can't count on anyone but yourself.

  • Sugarsail||

    LOL And yet when the police and fire unions want a pay raise for everyone they are quick to tell everyone how their daily duty and responsibility is to put themselves in harms way for others...

  • Professor Woland||

    Back in 2007 a 19 year old guy walked into the department store where I worked and murdered eight people and then killed himself, right in the middle of my shift. While escorting an old lady out of the building and to her car I saw a deputy go into the store by himself. Now by this point the shooter was already dead, but the deputy had no way of knowing that. I am not a fan of law enforcement generally speaking, but I had to give it to the that guy, he had balls.

  • Sevo||

    "...I am not a fan of law enforcement generally speaking, but I had to give it to the that guy, he had balls..."

    Doing what you agreed to do when you signed on is not "balls", it what you agreed to do.

  • Agammamon||

    No, he had balls.

    Its easy to sign on, thinking that you're enough of a badass to rescue the President. Its a completely different thing to carry through when that situation pops up.

    Woland's example did, this other one did not.

  • Cy||

    Right. But did he go in because he legitimately wanted to help people in distress or because it was his 'job.'

    I think that's what bothers me about the whole police thing. So many people don't do things or feel like they shouldn't do anything, because it's someone else's 'job.'

  • Don Glover||

    Also, we are told a cop is some badass that we have to give some a little extra latitude for violence because of the pressure. I hope the upside is a guy who'll rush toward danger, not just beat up unarmed people.

  • IceTrey||

    Mmm, they do have a responsibility to general society though.

  • MarcS||

    No, what they have is a job, and I've quit better jobs for *way* less

  • commentator||

    He should have quit years ago when he found out said job was to risk his life when civilians are in danger, then. His boss seems to have understood that as part of the requirements at least.

  • MarcS||

    You can only expect so much from someone whose job requires half as much training as my barber and doesnt get paid as well either.

  • Ranter||

    Your barber makes $80K a year and retires with a cush pension?

  • dchang0||

    My bet is that this particular cop was either assigned to the school because he was the loser on the force and the dept. wanted to get him out of the way OR because he is politically connected and wanted a cushy job guarding a school where presumably nothing difficult should ever happen.

    Either way, not an exemplary cop.

  • Brett Bellmore||

    His boss understood that there being video made the public relations untenable.

  • Rod Flash||

    I'm pretty sure "Serve and Protect" is intended for the wealthy overlords and their political flunkies, not the lumpenproletariat. So I'm sure he was quite aware that risking his life for civilians was not in the job description.

  • ThomasD||

    You mean the boss who went on Jake Tapper's dog and pony show (Gillespie gets wet) knowing this fact yet never addressing it?

  • Zeb||

    If they are going to think they are something more than mere "civilians" then they need to treat it like more than just a job. If you are allowed the power and privileges that police have, you need to use it. He's the only one there allowed to have a gun.

  • Iheartskeet||

    ^This

    It sounds crazy, but it's true.

    We must allow concealed carry at schools and everywhere by those legally permitted to do so.

  • Tankboy||

    An armed guard may not enter the building and put his life at risk, but Aaron Feis was already inside the building and his life was at risk. He tried to save the children, but because we can't trust teachers to carry, he was unarmed. He died for his heroism. Had he been armed, he still might have died (pistol < rifle), but he might have saved some of the children and he might even have brought down the shooter. If you can carry, always carry.

  • Cy||

    Outside of 'Gun Free Zones' being blatant Bill of Rights violations they're also a really shitty idea. Who knew?

  • ||

    The legality of bearing arms is not acquired by begging the govt. for a permit. It is legal because the Constitution says so and it is the highest law of the land. Even if something has been made illegal it may still be your right. The "law" often violates rights. Therefore, an LEO may be enforcing an immoral law and that makes him an unthinking thug or if he doesn't care, just a thug. Either way, he is no hero, quite the opposite. If he is protecting rights he still does not acquire special privileges, except by laws which are not just or wise.

    To be "law-abiding" indiscriminately is to be self-enslaving.

  • m.EK||

    The first 10 Amendments clearly state what the federal government, their employees, and contractors can NOT do! These are rules for government and have NOTHING to do with citizens other than identifying "rights" that the government can NOT legislate, decree, or "rule" against! This is the sole purpose for the first 10 Amendments.
    Read them. They are clearly written towards the government. "These are the chains that bind them" is how Thomas Jefferson referred to them. Read what Madison and Henry said as they introduced what would eventually flesh out to be the first 10 Amendments.
    I call them the first 10 Amendments and not "the Bill of Rights" for the latter misnomer creates the false impression that they and hence the government somehow profer "rights" upon the citizenry. This is kodachrome ("the crap you learned in high school")! You were granted your "rights" to being by the CREATOR and no "man" can legally take them from you.
    The first 10 Amendments tell these "people" where their authority ENDS!
    Last but very important! The Oath of Office is a legal and binding contract,,, a CIVIL contract that binds the Oather to honor the Constitution AS WRITTEN! Remember, it takes a successful Amendment Process to alter the Constitution in any manner or form. Hense, most legislation from the past 150 years is null and void as these assholes are clearly violating their Oaths.

  • BernieKilroy||

    I think you're mixing apples and oranges. The "no affirmative duty" rule applies only in the context of tort law, and whether the cop has a duty of care to the public to act. The rule serves to provide the cop with immunity from civil suit for nonfeasance.

    It does NOT mean that the cop has no public duty, or that it is not "his job."

  • Iheartskeet||

    i thought it was all the same. So, they CAN expect him to put himself directly in mortal danger ?

  • SQRLSY One||

    It reminds me of Columbine High School all those years... Literally about 800 cops gathered on-site, and lingered for several hours outside the building, before entering, to find that the 2 assholes had committed suicide hours ago. In the meantime, at least 1 person (a teacher) slowly bled to death.

    If we are paying these assholes to do a job that they prevent you or me or the teachers from doing (carrying a gun to "stop the madness"), and THEY won't do the job, then WTF are they good for?

    Well, at least none of Our Heroic Defenders got their hair mussed up...

  • Shakes||

    That was a turning point for their tactics, they go right in now, most of the time.

  • Sevo||

    "That was a turning point for their tactics, they go right in now, most of the time."
    Claim evident, cite(s) missing.

  • dchang0||

    The claim is true; I have also read that in the wake of these mass shootings some police departments have adjusted tactics so that even non-SWAT-team officers are now trained to go in and confront active shooters immediately.

    Previously, non-SWAT-team officers were trained to wait until SWAT arrives.
    Some police departments are also issuing more rifles to non-SWAT-team officers.

    Of course, not all departments are doing this, and cops might not exactly obey dept. policy and might not be disciplined if they don't.

  • Longtobefree||

    The week after Columbine, every deputy in the sheriff's department of one Florida county had walked through every school building in the county, and was directly ordered to enter and confront active shooters with or without backup. As soon as they got there, there were to go in.

  • Bubba Jones||

    I think that is what happened at Sandy Hook and even Florida. When groups of cops arrived

    What isn't evident is that a single cop will do it.

  • Griffin3||

    And yet, a single civilian has been able to take down the shooter, several times recently.

  • Flyby||

    At Sandy Hook the Newton police were outside the school for almost 6 minutes before the first officers entered the school through a rear entrance. Conversely the first two Connecticut State Troopers were inside the building within 17 seconds of arriving, and went right through the main entrance where the shooter had shot out the plate glass.

  • Thrackmoor||

    "Claim evident, cite(s) missing."

    In the district where I previously taught, I participated in Single Officer Response Training. The officers were trained to go in as soon as they arrived on scene, whether singly or in numbers. I can't speak to other jurisdictions, though.

  • Shakes||

    Go read a book, I'm not your monkey.

  • Agammamon||

    Like they didn't here.

    Like they didn't at Pulse.

    Half the shootings that have take place since Columbine, by the time the police got there it was already over or over shortly after they arrived on scene but before they could do anything.

  • m.EK||

    Apparently Vegas pd missed the tactical memo.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    The one time America needs a cop to shoot someone. Although, in fairness, I suppose Cruz was too far away for his furtive movements to cause Peterson to fear for his life.

  • NotAnotherSkippy||

    Look, he was up against a psychopath armed with an AR-15! There's nothing he could have done.

  • DJK||

    Never bring a pistol to a rifle fight sounds like a pretty good motto....

  • Jimbo BTR||

    The man with no name calls BS on that.

    I'm guessing you've never seen "A Fist Full of Dollars".

  • Longtobefree||

    Inside a building, a pistol is a better choice. The likelihood of a 100 yard shot is pretty slim. Tactical choice is why so many 'gun nuts' own more than one weapon. And I say weapon because I would not use a firearm for home defense if the wife and kids were on the other side of the walls. There are other options.

  • The Laissez-Ferret||

    ^This. People who automatically think a rifle is better than a pistol know very little about guns and training. You put some untrained kid against someone like me who shoots on a regular basis and I'll take him out with a 9mm. Not saying I'm a badass, far from it, but as it is with most things experience wins most of the time.

  • ThomasD||

    Unless we are in an actual phone booth, all other things being equal I'll take the carbine every time. Longer sight radius, higher ammo capacity, easier and quicker follow up shots, and in this case the high velocity round.

  • DJK||

    Exactly. The only time I can see a pistol being a better choice, all else equal, is at extremely close range or if you're in such a confined space that you can't maneuver the rifle. Those situations will be very rare.

  • DJK||

    All else equal (including training), I'm put heavy odds on the combatant armed with a rifle versus the one armed with a pistol.

  • DJK||

    Rifles have quite a few more advantages than just the ability to fire at range. Here are a few.

    Capacity: I'd rather have an AR-15 with 30 round magazines than a Glock 22 with 15 round magazines or, worse, a 1911 with 8 or 10 round magazines.

    Target acquisition and accuracy: I'd rather have an AR-15 with abundant rail space to add whatever optics I want (I find a laser and a 3-5x fixed power optic to be pretty damned good for picking up a target quickly but I'm too cheap to buy an ACOG) than any pistol, which will always have limited optics options.

    Recoil management/follow-up shots: I'd rather have an AR-15 with built-in recoil dampening mechanisms and manage the vast majority of the remaining recoil with the strongest parts of my body than any pistol with no dampening mechanism and which requires management of recoil mostly with the arms.

    Stopping power: I'd rather have an AR-15 firing a .223 bullet traveling at 3000 ft/s delivering more than 1500 J of energy and potentially creating a debilitating large temporary wound cavity than a 9mm or 45ACP bullet traveling at 1000 ft/s delivering 600 J of energy.

    Maneuverability: Okay, maybe the pistol is more maneuverable in a tight space. I don't really think it's that big of an issue here. An AR-15 with a 16" barrel is only 35" long overall. Schools usually have very wide corridors. If it's really an issue, go bullpup. A Kel-Tec RDB is only 27" long.

    Rifles win on the vast majority (if not all) of the important factors.

  • SusanM||

    Heroes are only heroes when the other guy is outnumbered, unarmed and (preferably) asleep.

  • Sevo||

    "Heroes are only heroes when the other guy is outnumbered, unarmed and (preferably) asleep."

    Or indirectly arranging the op from a safe office.
    Obo, the HERO!

  • mpercy||

    Or when the other guy is a dog.

  • Frank Thorn||

    Cop with handgun in one hand and horse in the other kills gunman w/ 2 semi auto rifles with one shot.

    https://austin.com/
    austin-cop-shows-crazed-gunman
    -why-you-shouldnt-mess-with-texas/

  • KevinP||

  • Cy||

    Thanks for sharing. That's quite a story.

  • Agammamon||

    He had to be careful - those things shoot through *schools*.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hd-0F4v1C54

  • ThomasD||

    The world needs to be more Johnny Dangerously.

  • Flyby||

    Good thing our police down here in North Carolina don't think like you. When a gunman went on a shooting rampage in a Carthage NC nursing home back in 2009, officer Justin Garner entered the nursing home by himself, armed with his sidearm, confronted the shotgun wielding shooter (who had already shot like 11 people, 8 of them dead), and took him out with one shot, ending the killing. The officer was shot in the leg.

    I believe that young officer is now a North Carolina State Trooper. I think I also read a few years ago that the Carthage police officers now carry long guns in their cruisers, so the officer.

  • m.EK||

    He was up against a KILLER in the school that he was tasked to protect. Don't be careless but get you ass in there and engage the MFer. Get the attention off the kids!
    There were "things" he could have done.
    They had a drill that morning. He was as prepared as he ever would be.

  • Don't look at me.||

    Now, if the shooter was a dog, it would be game on!

  • DajjaI||

    True and even if they hire a bunch of gung-ho military types to protect the schools, guess what? Some of them will actually become shooters themselves. In fact, many of the shooters are ex-military and law enforcement, e.g. Dallas, St Louis and Orlando. Police state is not a winning strategy.

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    And yet the actual experience of real military combat vets becoming cops, is that they are far slower to resort to force and slower to escalate force once used than cops who are not military combat vets.

    Do you remember that cop fired for not shooting a suicidal suspect? He is a veteran of the Iraq & Afghanistan wars.

  • DajjaI||

    Yes, the police can hire the cream of the crop. As for the rest, better to hire them to rebuild American infrastructure than destroy Iraq's.

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    "Yes, the police can hire the cream of the crop."

    I don't see how you can look at all the idiots and assholes they hire who didn't come from military backgounds and still say that with a straight face.

  • Thrackmoor||

    He said *can*, not necessarily *do*.

  • Rod Flash||

    "Yes, the police can hire the cream of the crop."

    I don't think so. I suspect the cream of the crop have IQs higher that are allowed in the police depts.

  • MarcS||

    Turns out the officer was a military veteran and was twice decorated as officer of the year in his 30+ year tenure as a police officer. Guess you can't predict how humans will act

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    Are you referring to the SRO?

    1. He was a veteran, but was he a combat veteran?

    2. His not confronting the shooter is not inconsistent with the principle that combat veterans turned cop are slower to resort to force than cops without military combat experience

  • dchang0||

    The rules of engagement in the most recent wars was/is so much more restrictive than police department policies.

    And the penalties to our military for violating the ROE are much higher than for a cop (who would likely be put on paid administrative leave and then returned to duty when the PR storm blows over).

  • I can't even||

    This - I was in several situations (man brandishing and AK) where American cops would have gunned him down. They all ended without gunfire because Marines would have gone to jail if they had fired first (unless they had actually shouldered the weapon and aimed it at us).

  • Sevo||

    DajjaI|2.22.18 @ 7:43PM|#
    "True and even if they hire a bunch of gung-ho military types to protect the schools, guess what? Some of them will actually become shooters themselves."

    Pulled that out of your ass?
    Or let's see some cites.

  • Sugarsail||

    I hate to be conspiratorial, but you really start to get the idea from circumstantial evidence that leftists are deliberately encouraging or allowing attacks with firearms to occur to use it as fuel for their anti-2A agenda....don't underestimate the evil in the heart of a leftist statist, at least a right-winger authoritarian has a predictable moral code usually handed to them by divinity, but the leftist worships only their own ego and its lust for power. Bad news.

  • kint||

    You're being conspiratorial, and it's disgusting.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    Agreed. It's rings a little false to say I hate to be conspiratorial then submit a fairly grand conspiracy.

    at least a right-winger authoritarian has a predictable moral code usually handed to them by divinity

    So, as a god fearing man myself, I am 100% going to call bullshit on that one.

  • SIV||

    kint is drenched in the blood of children

  • DajjaI||

    Actually I would argue it's the autism industry - they tell parents "Never criticize" and the kids "Always apologize." It's an accident waiting to happen and they need to track down other victims, who are ticking time bombs. But yeah, the mental illness industry and the securities industries love it. It's like they pick a kid to scapegoat and then wait for him to blow up. Also, yes they don't believe in teaching kids right and wrong and I hope someone does an expose on this 'treatment'.

  • Marcus Aurelius||

    Plenty of people believe crisis actors were involved... More circumstances being revealed only increase the conspiracy theories.

  • Shakes||

    Plenty of people are pretty dumb.

  • Longtobefree||

    And yet, somehow, she did not get elected - - - - -

  • MarcS||

    Would you go up against a rifle-weilding gunman for $19 an hour or whatever chump-change salary they were paying this guy. Sorry children, unless this dude is between me and exit, you're all waiting for the swat team

  • Jerryskids||

    The question isn't whether or not I would go up against an armed gunman for $30 an hour, the question is whether or not a guy who volunteered for the job of going up against an armed gunman for $30 an hour would.

  • MarcS||

    I've quit better jobs for being asked to do way less

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Too bad Peterson hadn't quit his a little earlier.

  • MarcS||

    It's a pretty sweet gig for someone with a high-school education and no other marketable skills

  • Flyby||

    That's cool, just don't take a job as a Sheriff's deputy.

  • KevinP||

    He had one job to do. Protect the school. And he was a coward. If he had engaged the shooter promptly, many lives may have been saved.

  • I can't even||

    He didn't have to run in and drop the gun Dirty Harry style. Find the shooter, take cover, and put down some suppressing fire. That would at least stop him from committing murder at his leisure.

  • LarryA||

    $19 an hour or whatever chump-change salary they were paying this guy.

    An SRO is typically a commissioned law enforcement officer, in this case a deputy sheriff.
    "Police officers reported an average yearly salary of $56,260, or $27.05 an hour, as of 2011, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. This works out to average weekly pay of about $1,082."

  • I can't even||

    Before you add in generous health and retirement benefits.

  • ThomasD||

    News reports peg this guy's salary at about $75k.

    Not that the figure really matters. What matters is that he balked at the worst possible moment.

  • MikeP2||

    Plenty of people are drooling morons. No one should care what they think.

  • Rod Flash||

    I'm pretty sure the crisis actor conspiracy theorists are crisis actors.

  • Unlabelable MJGreen||

    lol?

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    All conspiracy theories are misinformation plot put out by the CIA to distract the anti-government nuts from what the government is really up to.

    /meta conspiracy.

  • chemjeff||

    "I hate to be conspiratorial"

    No you don't, and you're wrong.

  • Cy||

    It's not conspiratorial at all. It doesn't take a genius to create 'gun free zones' and know that that's going to be violated. You can then use the shootings from those 'gun free zones' to further your agenda of eliminating guns rights. This isn't rocket science.

    It doesn't take a genius to know that the government, when it comes to law enforcement, is extremely slow acquiring and acting on intelligence. What happens when government fails or entities fail to uphold laws? We need mroe government and more laws!

    There were celebrations by organized crime when they made liquor illegal. Not exactly the same thing, but similar.

  • ThomasD||

    Exactly. Not so much a conspiracy as the natural consequences of a particular set of conditions.

    IOW, to any actual libertarian, not unintended.

  • Trainer||

    I think this is important for libertarians to understand if they want to change things. To label natural consequences that people are willing to take advantage of properly explains the problem and once you understand the problem, you can work to fix it. To label things a conspiracy only creates more problems by engaging false solutions.

  • SIV||

    If Robbie had gone to Columbia he'd know this is a "dog bites man" story

  • Juice||

    Sheriff on Marjory Stoneman Douglas cop's failure to act: "Sick to my stomach."

    Officer safety is the first priority. The officer was safe. He did his fucking job. Now STFU.

  • ThomasD||

    The only possible defense of the Broward Coward us to note that he came to be in those circumstances by the multiple failures of his own employer.

  • Juice||

    When asked what Peterson should have done, Israel told reporters in no uncertain terms that the officer had a responsibility to confront the killer and attempt to stop him.

    The Supreme Court disagrees.

  • SIV||

    Warren v. District of Columbia is the most important piece of law cops learn.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    Schechter Poultry Corp. v. United States is the first piece of law SIV learned.

  • LarryA||

    AFAIK there's a difference between responding to a 911 call to come to an individual's assistance, and responding to a felony in progress in sight of the officer.

  • Juice||

    I'd love to hear the reasoning behind that. If there's a 911 call with a person telling the cops that a violent felony is in progress next door to the cop's location, the cops aren't obligated to go next door to stop it? But if the cops are outside the same location and see the crime taking place they are obligated to intervene? I honestly don't see a difference between the two situations with regard to why the cops should act differently.

  • ThomasD||

    SCOTUS only speaks to a legal liability and nothing else.

    He had assumed an employment duty and he failed.

    He also had assumed a moral duty that he likewise failed.

  • SIV||

    Why are we paying armed guards to keep schools safe if they flee the very danger they are supposed to prevent?

    I don't think "keep schools safe" is part of the job description.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Maybe someone should have reported that Cruz had inappropriate selfies from his girlfriend on his smartphone. Then they would have swarmed.

  • SusanM||

    He was selling cigarettes!!!11!

  • Don't look at me.||

    More money needed for training.

  • Brian||

    Uh, yeah: the government has no responsibility to take care of you.

    The way this works: next time the sheriff is up for election, let him know how much you want deputies to run straight into active shooters.

    I'll be defending myself, but, you let me know how democracy works for you.

    And you can take a repeal of 2A and shove it.

  • Robespierre Josef Stalin Pot||

    I admire you Brian for being such a tough guy, but I know your weakness, which is the thought that anyone at any time could call you a racist. Then you roll up into a ball and whine like a bitch--AR-15s and all.

  • Cy||

    All you blue dogs know how do do is curl up in balls and whine.

    "I'm scared. Why won't the government take away your guns?"
    "My feelings are hurt. Why won't the government make you say what I want you to?"
    "That idea bothers me. Why won't the government ban that author?"
    "That person did something that offends me over 100 years ago. Why doesn't the government tear down their statue?"
    "I'm hungry. Why doesn't the government feed me?"
    "I'm broke. Why doesn't the government pay me?"
    "I'm hurt. Why doesn't the government pay for my choice of healthcare!?!?!"
    "I didn't get the job and pay I wanted after college. Why doesn't the government pay for my college?"

  • bevis the lumberjack||

    He wouldn't try to stop somebody doing actual violence, but I bet he was hella brave that one time a couple of unarmed freshmen tried to do a $10 weed transaction in the bathroom.......

  • Ken Shultz||

    This guy may have failed to do his job. And the FBI may have dropped the ball. And the local police may have ignored 29 complaints against the murdering psycho.

    Still, I think we should ban bump stocks anyway.

    And ban the Confederate flag.

    And we should make the Redskins change their name.

    And introduce a carbon tax.

    And send the Iranians another plane load of cash.

    . . . unless all you racists just want more children to die.

  • Cyto||

  • LynchPin1477||

    I just came here to say that Michael Hihn is not very intelligent. I am much, much more intelligent than him.

  • Ken Shultz||

    Well, now he's gonna have to discuss your posts with the Koch brothers.

  • Greg F||

    I am much, much more intelligent than him.


    Claiming your smarter than a mushroom is not saying much.

  • BestUsedCarSales||

    LynchPin1477 is not a braggart.

  • Chipper Morning Baculum||

    Are claiming Hihn is Humongous Fungus from Malheur National Forest? I mean I knew he was old, but daaamn.

  • MarcS||

    I guarantee he doesn't get paid enough for that bullshit

  • SusanM||

    He's probably too old for that bullshit.

  • MarcS||

    My thoughts exactly

  • Necron 99||

    And only two days away from retirement. Took an early retirement.

  • Zeb||

    Who does? It's about psychological toughness and moral fiber, not money. Whatever you are getting paid, you aren't going to put yourself in extreme danger unless you are the sort of person who is willing to do things like that to save other people. And if you aren't that kind of person, you shouldn't be a cop.

  • Duke of url||

    I'm starting to think the name 'Scott Peterson' is going to have a negative connotation.
    Not only the 'coward from broward' but also that other one.

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    Now you have me wondering if both this Scot Peterson and the other one are related to Drew Peterson the Chicago cop and wife killer.

  • Palin's Buttplug||

    So much for The Dotard's lame-brain idea of putting an armed guard in every school.

  • Cy||

    Hmm.. a government official didn't do their job!?!? Let's get more laws and government! It'll work this time I promise!

  • MikeP2||

    Without knowing his history, best not to judge the sro. Many, if not most, untrained people will freeze up in indecision in situations like that. Heroism is revered because it is rare.

    Its why no one should be relying on the state. Just untrained yahoos will no skin in the game.

  • IceTrey||

    He was a cop.

  • MikeP2||

    So. You think he is trained for that? Lmfao

  • DaveSs||

  • Rod Flash||

    But all cops, soldiers, firefighters, etc. are heroes. I hear that all the time. On the internet and TV, so it must be true. Although my ex-army buddy who drove generals to meetings in DC for pretty much his entire enlistment period didn't agree.

  • MarcS||

    Im very well trained. So well trained that i know how easy it is to lose a gunfight even if you're well trained. Unless I'm getting a six figure bounty, the only way im shooting it out with a gunman armed with an AR15 is if he's between me and the exit. Heroism is for 18yo chumps whose heads have been filled with patriotic propaganda. They can have it.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    The corollary is that the shooter would have to be very well trained or very well experienced not to react poorly to being fired upon. It's much easier to hit your target when no one is making you his target.

  • MarcS||

    How many dead cops were shot by highly trained people? Guns are the great equalizer. All you need to be is unlucky to be dead

  • Cyto||

    For the sake of argument, let's pretend that you are not a cop.

    Let's concoct a scenario.... you are somewhere similar... let's say you are at Church. And you have a CC permit. You are carrying at the moment. You are volunteering in the preschool wing, because you are a good church member.

    So there you are... and someone bursts in and tells you that some kid is shooting at the Jr. High kids upstairs in the education building. You go to the door and look out.... you can see the entrance to the education building just across the sidewalk a ways.

    You hear a gunshot. Some kids run out of the building and point and yell that "he's shooting up there!!"

    You know there are 80 or 90 kids in the classrooms up there. You know these kids. You've seen them daily for years.

    What do you do? Nobody is paying you anything.

    Do you turn around and look for a place to hide? Do you yell for the kids to join you and hide? Do you run to the parking lot and get the hell out of there?

    Or do you run over there, hoping that you'll find a way to stop anyone else from getting killed?

  • MarcS||

    Considering that this officer was a 30+ year veteran of the force, twice decorated as officer of the year and a former soldier, i can confidently say that no one knows what they will do until they have to do it.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I get the point the two of you are making. I have a CC permit but never carry because I am almost certain I couldn't shoot someone, even in self defense. i believe my fear of misreading a situation is greater than my survival instinct. I would be a terrible cop.

    My point is that when the state and its agents disarm you it and its agents have a duty to step in where you now cannot.

  • Bubba Jones||

    I don't think I would hesitate to shoot someone to protect my kids.

    Don't expect me to risk myself to defend a stranger who can't be bothered to defend himself.

    This was a little different in that they knew this kid was a risk so I think anyone who saw him with a gun wouldn't hesitate to shoot him.

    And all the more reason to arm the teachers. One of them in the room is going to be a lot more motivated than someone outside it.

  • Flyby||

    I can't cite the article, but a few years ago I read about a study done of recent active shooter incidents where the responding officer had confronted the shooter without waiting for backup. It had been presented at some type of Police Association meeting.

    I don't remember all the specifics, but the main points were that it was dangerous for the officers, as something like 35% of them were wounded, though none were killed. What was really incredible was that the first responding officer ended the active shooting in 100% of the cases. Many of the incidents ended as the shooter killed himself as soon as he knew he was being confronted by police.

    So it does it does take courage by the officer, however the data would indicate that most of these nutjobs are over-matched when confronted with a trained police officer.

  • MarcS||

    Im very well trained. So well trained that i know how easy it is to lose a gunfight even if you're well trained. Unless I'm getting a six figure bounty, the only way im shooting it out with a gunman armed with an AR15 is if he's between me and the exit. Heroism is for 18yo chumps whose heads have been filled with patriotic propaganda. They can have it.

  • Ken Shultz||

    In all seriousness.

    One on one?

    Less than 10 yards?

    I'd rather have a shotgun than an AR-15--so long as there aren't any kids around.

    When there are kids around, I don't want anything that spreads wide.

    Where there are kids around, I don't want a slug that will go through six sheets of drywall.

    Still, there's a happy medium in there somewhere. People shoot the heads off of turkeys with choke, amirite?

    Oh, and one thing I'm still unclear on . . .

    They picked the shooter up like a mile away from the school, isn't that right?

    Why did the shooter stop shooting? Did he just run out of ammo?

    I guess it's bad that the cop didn't go after the shooter when the shooter was arbitrarily killing children, but it seems to me that maybe the cop could have gone after the shooter after he ran out of ammo, too.

    I imagine the psycho kid arbitrarily killing people imagining that he's committing suicide by cop, can't believe nobody showed up to shoot him, and so he just walks home.

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    "Why did the shooter stop shooting? Did he just run out of ammo?"

    Yes, it's highly probable that he ran out of ammo. Either that or his gun jammed.

    He ditched his rifle on the 3rd floor of the school and walked out by blending in with fleeing students.

  • Bubba Jones||

    He couldn't set up his sniper position as intended so he blended in and walked out.

    What isn't clear is why he didn't get farther away. I guess he had no real plan for "after". Not surprising.

  • ThomasD||

    Although, it appears his plan, such as it was, did not include dying.

    That's the big question when confronting an active shooter. If he wants to go out in a blaze then altering his behavior will come at greater risk.

    If he does not plan on dying then he can be more easily diverted if not stopped.

  • KevinP||

    If it is your job to protect the school then you do whatever is necessary to protect the school, even at the cost of your own life.

    I am well trained with both handgun and AR-15. The AR-15 is just a rifle. It has advantages like accuracy at long range, which is of less relevance indoors. It is not some magic blanket that wards off bullets. It is absolutely possible for a handgun shooter to take down a rifle shooter in a building.

    But the coward cop did nothing.

    Next you'll be arguing that firefighters should not rush into burning buildings. They should have stayed out of the twin towers on 9/11.

  • The Laissez-Ferret||

    Exactly. Most people now think that an AR-15 is some instrument of destruction with magical bullets that move like heat seeking missles. It's a nice gun, but far from the perfect weapon. KevinP is right, training and experience matters more than the weapon.

    Here's a fun fact. The average cop can't shoot worth a shit. Many of them don't even do their required range time. If my life depended upon an average cop or someone who shoots recreationally, I'll take the rec shooter every time.

  • Enjoy Every Sandwich||

    That's fine as long as you stick to it and don't sign up to be a cop. If you actually take the job I would expect you to do it.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    The problem is he took up a spot that could have been filled with someone willing to engage the threat. Except for him and the shooter, everyone on the property was disarmed. In fact, one of his duties there would be to make sure he was the only one armed on campus.

  • MarcS||

    Everyone lies in their interview. Fact of life.

  • MikeP2||

    "Willing to engage the threat". I think you'd find that to be unusual, and not the norm. 4minutes? Not really that long. Probably spent the first minute trying to comprehend what was happening....is it firecrackers...this cant be real. Then rationalized that it made more sense to 'cover the exit' to protect the kids outside. Who knows.

    Few people are heroes. Our reverence of them makes it seem common, but its a small minority. Most are sheep.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    Whatever the disturbance, it was a disturbance on school grounds. He's the SRO.

    When you make it a point to be the only one legally capable of armed self defense - and the SRO would be part of that mechanism to enforce the disarmament of law abiding citizens - then you kind of have a duty to act as a surrogate for everyone you saw disarmed. Or get out of the way.

    I can only cut people who act as part of a system to disarm other people so much slack.

  • MarcS||

    You're relying on someone with lower training requirements and pay than my barber. As soon as veing a cop requires a graduate degree and pays six figures, I'll start being less sympathetic when they suck at their jobs.

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    I understand your point. He's a mall guard. My issue is the making it so I can't defend myself while simultaneously not defending me.

  • MarcS||

    Someone way above his pay grade made those rules

  • Fist of Etiquette||

    No doubt. He chose a job that enforces them (apparently in this case only when it's convenient, though).

  • Ship of Theseus||

    I'm late to the party, but 100x this^

  • Cyto||

    I think this is a fair point. The ability to act under a crisis is a problem.

    The guy had incomplete information. Who knows what is up there? There could have been 3 guys with assault rifles in a coordinated attack. Running into the building at that point would be... pointless.

    And all it takes is a few moments of hesitation.

    I've been in a similar situation - information lock, not shot at. It was at a crowded park in downtown Atlanta during a festival. Someone starts shouting "hey! Stop him! He's stealing my bike!" I start scanning the crowd and moving toward the sound. My wife is pulling on my arm and telling me to stay out of it.

    I see a big black dude moving through the crowd on a bike. Is that the thief? I take a step forward, hesitating. I'm not sure what I'm seeing or what action I should take. I'm slightly uphill, so I prepare to rush down and tackle him... but I'm hesitant. What if it is just some dude riding his bike? I can't see too clearly because of the crowd. Also... what if he beats the crap out of me?... he is at least 4 inches taller and 50 pounds heavier than I am. I rip my arm out of the grip of my wife and take a couple of steps...

    Just then, a big bodybuilder type reaches out and grabs the handlebars, sending the guy flying. A bunch of guys hold him down and it is all over in about 2 seconds. I was still about 15 or 20 feet away. The whole thing was less than 10 seconds.

  • Ron||

    In a building that size it would be hard to know where to look. Gun fire in building echoes everywhere. Without a visual you would have to go room by room.

  • ThomasD||

    You say SRO as if it means something other than a cop. In Florida it means a cop.

  • IceTrey||

    Don't you guys know cops only shoot UNARMED mental cases.

  • Jerryskids||

    On the one hand, he might have run into the building and started randomly blasting away and the death toll would be that much higher, but on the other hand......well, I'm not sure where I was going with this.

  • Robespierre Josef Stalin Pot||

    Shhh!!! Damn it! You're undermining the libertarian's favorite pet theory. That is, what the world needs more of is random GI-Joes equipped with machine guns so they can have a firefight in the middle of a public square and take out the perp without any collateral damage. Happens all the time!

  • Sevo||

    OTOH, commie-kid argues for standing the kids up against the wall and letting some whacko open fire.
    Gee, what a pathetic piece of shit you are!

  • Brian||

    Sorry, but that's the gun control crowd's "only the government can stop shooters" theory.

    They should add "...maybe, if they feel up to it" at the end.

  • Ranter||

    "...and even if they don't, we're still going to give them a nice, spiked-up retirement package and provide security around their private residence to deter any nosy reporters."

  • Cyto||

    I think the actual narrative is: If a potential shooter believes that he'll be shot dead within a few moments, he'll leave the gun home and skip the whole thing.

    There is some evidence to back this up. Kennesaw Georgia - right near my old stomping grounds - famously passed a law requiring all heads of household to keep a gun.

    Guess what they didn't see much of after that? Home invasion crimes. I wonder if there was a correlation.

    Guess what they didn't see? A rash of would-be thieves getting shot on the back porch.

    So it is at least plausible that deterrence works. At least in some situations.

  • Zeb||

    Go to a country where people don't have guns and you see a lot more bars on lower story windows, and a lot more burglaries when people are home.

  • Lester224||

    Stole this from the internet:

    Pew Research Center reported in 2013 that by various estimates, Americans own between 270 and 310 million firearms—nearly one per person. But gun ownership is concentrated among a smaller group, with only 37 percent of U.S. households reporting that they included a gun owner [source: Pew Research Center].
    Of the 12,664 murders committed in the United States in 2011, 49 percent involved handguns and more than 67 percent involved firearms overall [source: FBI].
    All told, America is the most heavily armed country in the world, with the highest number of gun-related homicides among developed nations and some of the most relaxed gun laws [source: Walsh, Brian. "Arms Race." Time. Jan. 14, 2013.].

  • Lester224||

    Stole this from the internet:

    Pew Research Center reported in 2013 that by various estimates, Americans own between 270 and 310 million firearms—nearly one per person. But gun ownership is concentrated among a smaller group, with only 37 percent of U.S. households reporting that they included a gun owner [source: Pew Research Center].
    Of the 12,664 murders committed in the United States in 2011, 49 percent involved handguns and more than 67 percent involved firearms overall [source: FBI].
    All told, America is the most heavily armed country in the world, with the highest number of gun-related homicides among developed nations and some of the most relaxed gun laws [source: Walsh, Brian. "Arms Race." Time. Jan. 14, 2013.].

  • DajjaI||

    Soon the world will consist of a group of people desperately trying to kill themselves, a group trying to kill everyone else, a group chasing after them trying to stop it, and me - working my ass off day in and day out to subsidize the bill for the latest 'must have' technology for detection of 'suicidal ideation' and 'early intervention and treatment' for 'mass killer psychosis'. And if I balk at paying the bill, everyone will stop trying to kill themselves and each other and cry, "MURDERER!"

  • Robespierre Josef Stalin Pot||

    Wouldn't this argue against the idea of putting an armed guard in every classroom?

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    No, just against putting cops in every classroom and pretending they are armed guards.

    If we want to put armed guards in schools:

    1. They should not be law enforcement officers with arrest powers. Too much temptation to see school discipline problems as criminal matters and students as criminal suspects.

    2. We should copy the training program for the uniformed division of the Secret Service, the ones who are used for protective details for the president and other government officials.

  • chemjeff||

    I know it's not a popular position around here but I feel a little sorry for the guy. He probably thought standing guard at a highschool was a cushy assignment, and now he has to live with 17 deaths on his conscience. I wouldn't want to be that guy.

  • Sevo||

    Sorry, fuck him with turd's dick.
    He signed up tp protect kids, not to sit on his ass with the gun strapped to his side pretending to be what he wasn't.
    He ought to be suffering consequences far beyond any presumed moral angst; there seems little chance of being any.

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    Loosing his job with the Sheriff's department would seem to me to be a consequence.

  • Cy||

    After being put on forced leave he retired.

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    He retired to prevent them from firing his ass after an investigation.

    He still no longer has his job.

  • esteve7||

    Between this and the FBI, how much evidence do you need that the government is not there to protect you...

  • Ken Shultz||

    I hear what you're saying, but I think we should ban bumpstocks anyway--just to be safe.

    And large sugary soft drinks.

    And the president should say something about J Law's dress.

    Either that, or maybe you just want children to die?

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    "And the president should say something about J Law's dress."

    I'm rather sure that anything our current president says about J Law's dress would be very approving in a chauvinist, sexist way.

  • Lachowsky||

    Police are for after crimes have been committed. They have no obligation to prevent or save anything or anyone. They know this. If you want to be safe, you have to do it yourself. Government can't do it for you.

  • I'm Not Sure||

    "If you want to be safe, you have to do it yourself. Government can't do it for you."

    They can, however, make it more difficult for you to do it yourself.

  • Cy||

    EXTREMELY more difficult.

  • Jerryskids||

    Here's the horrifying reality of the gun control debate.

    Warning: Reading this piece may cause irreparable brain damage.

    I have been a radiologist in one of the busiest trauma centers in the nation for 13 years, and have diagnosed thousands of handgun injuries to the brain, lung, liver, spleen, bowel, and other vital organs. I thought that I knew all that I needed to know about gunshot wounds, but the specific pattern of injury on my computer screen was one that I had seen only once before.

    In a typical handgun injury that I diagnose almost daily, a bullet leaves a laceration through an organ like the liver. To a radiologist, it appears as a linear, thin, grey bullet track through the organ. There may be bleeding and some bullet fragments.

    I was looking at a CT scan of one of the victims of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School, who had been brought to the trauma center during my call shift. The organ looked like an overripe melon smashed by a sledgehammer, with extensive bleeding. How could a gunshot wound have caused this much damage?

  • Jerryskids||

    And then the guy spends most of the rest of the article explaining why the AR-15 isn't like a handgun, something he apparently just now learned. I've got an old .45-70 that'd probably really blow his mind.

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    I wonder what he would make of a wound resulting from being shot with a shotgun at close range?

  • MarcS||

    Pistols poke holes. High velocity rifle rounds are a whole different animal.

  • KevinP||

    I wonder if he will write about the carnage caused by buckshot fired by Grandpa's 12-gauge shotgun?

    Probably not, that won't fit the narrative.

  • Sevo||

    Can we do something?
    Why, yes we can! A spinal implant!

  • Dread Pirate Roberts||

    Why are we paying armed guards to keep schools safe if they flee the very danger they are supposed to prevent?

    That's wonderfully naÏve. We put cops in schools to enforce petty disciplinary issues that used to be handled by teachers. It's above his pay grade to risk anything on behalf of the kids.

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    No, cops were put in schools directly because of prior school shootings. Using the hand officer to deal with petty disciplinary issues is just a bonus.

  • Sevo||

    "...Peterson has now resigned, according to The Washington Post."

    With full benefits, we all hope, having done such a wonderful job.

  • ||

    He'll get an award for getting home safely.

    I wonder if his conscience will eat him up.

    I really want to hope and believe if I were ever in a situation where I have to confront my mortality in order to save lives, I have the courage to take it.

  • Sevo||

    "I really want to hope and believe if I were ever in a situation where I have to confront my mortality in order to save lives, I have the courage to take it."

    I think that's a question you consider when you take a position such as that asshole held. It's like joining the military; you don't get to bail once you are sent to a front line since you just joined to 'see the world'.
    I had one experience many years ago. It did not include firearms, but it did include knives (well, a knife). The hair on the back of my neck was standing, but I did as required. No one ended up harmed, the perp was driven off by the fact that someone was not going to let it happen.
    I don't think I'm alone among those who have principles.

  • KevinP||

    Yep. My wife, who is generally a pacifist, used a pistol to defend a battered woman and give her shelter from her abuser. No one was shot or hurt, but that was the right thing to do.

  • Will Nonya||

    If you want to pound your chest and talk about putting your life on the line there's a chance that a time might come when you actually have to.

  • Sevo||

    "If you want to pound your chest and talk about putting your life on the line there's a chance that a time might come when you actually have to."

    That coward signed up to do exactly that, and slimy defenders of cowards are due the same derision as the cowards.
    Get lost.

  • KevinP||

    So the lessons learned from the Parkland school shooting:
    * Local police were called to the shooter more than 30 times, but he was never arrested or committed which could have placed him on the background check list.
    * The FBI were informed two times, once very credibly, that the shooter was planning a school shooting and did nothing.
    * The police officer assigned to guard the school hid outside the school building like a coward while the youngsters inside he had to protect were slaughtered.
    * This is all the fault of the NRA.
    * Law abiding gun owners should disarm and trust the government to protect them from criminals.

  • Sevo||

    You left out:
    * Nothing of the kind ever happened before Trump was elected by the Russkis and therefore Trump should be impeached and HRC should be appointed president!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    * And we all live happily ever after!

  • Michael Cook||

    Back in my blockwatch days late one night I ran to my next door elderly neighbors in a bathrobe and tried to pull back a berserk drugged up young man whom the lady of the house had unwisely opened the door a crack to see what he wanted. She hadn't undone the chain bolt but the out of control crazy young guy had his foot in the door and the elderly couple were barely managing by pushing on their side of the door to keep him from breaking the chain.

    I tried pulling him back and even jerked out a couple handfuls of his hair but I also am pretty old. After a few moments I noticed a police car arrive at the end of the block, turn its lights off, and just sit there. They were evaluating a dangerous situation and waiting for backup to arrive!

    When other officers finally showed up, they all swooped in and quickly handcuffed Mr. Nutjob, who was familiar to all of them from previous incidents and also known for physically resisting arrest.

    I am long-retired LE but am still mad about this. The first officer to arrive should have been my back-up!

  • Cyto||

    That certainly sounds reasonable, particularly if he was armed with a taser. It should have been a simple matter to walk up to the scuffle and put the guy down with a stun gun to the lumbar region. No need to even fire the wires.

    On the other hand, maybe you should just count yourself lucky that you didn't end up arrested. Or sued. We do live in a world that loves ironic punishments.

  • Bubba Jones||

    But how do you know which one to tase?

    Both?

  • Cyto||

    Since my perpetual rant of late has been about the inexplicable conduct of the major news outlets, I'll rant on:

    Why did it take this long for this to come out? Why didn't anyone interview the guy right after the shooting? Nobody asked the question? It should have been on the short list.

    I've heard several calls from the network news for schools being better prepared... and lamenting that they didn't have drills for what to do in a shooting... despite the fact that there was a drill on exactly that earlier that day.

    This was the drill after Columbine - hide in class until the cops come get you. (I was on lockdown in a different school in Broward at the time... .they locked us in the classroom, helpfully with no information as to what was happening. Intentionally. They didn't want to spook the kids)

    Are we discussing whether that is a smart move? Or should you run like hell away from the gun as fast as you can?

    Anyway, back to the reporting.

    We immediately heard the Gun Control drumbeat, from all quarters. And calls for police and metal detectors.

    So where was this story? 9 days is a long time. This should have been a story within a day or two. Certainly before the CNN town hall and all of the public pressure to "DO SOMETHING NOW! NOW, DAMMIT! NOW!"

  • Sevo||

    I repeat my earlier comment:
    "Can we do something?
    Why, yes we can! A spinal implant!"

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    "Why did it take this long for this to come out?"

    The national news outlets likely didn't know that the school had an SRO on duty.

  • Bubba Jones||

    They would have had to ask. Too much work.

  • Cy||

    This is just the Dems firing up the base. When they had the Presidency and a senatorial and house super majority... THEY... DID... NOTHING! This is how they get and keep voters. Guns are bad mmmmkay...

  • Robespierre Josef Stalin Pot||

    The real victim in the midst of this whole affair where parents are bearing the almost indescribable grief of having to bury their child is Dana Loesch. She had to endure being called a fucking Imbecile and loon to her face. We should all feel bad for this women that old right-wing men jerk off to. Sad.

  • Sevo||

    Robespierre Josef Stalin Pot|2.23.18 @ 12:19AM|#
    "The real victim in the midst of this whole affair where parents are bearing the almost indescribable grief of having to bury their child is Dana Loesch. She had to endure being called a fucking Imbecile and loon to her face. We should all feel bad for this women that old right-wing men jerk off to. Sad."

    Did you just make that up? Pull it out of your ass?
    I have no idea what are you whining about.

  • Robespierre Josef Stalin Pot||

    There's something clearly wrong with me. I'm almost in my sixth decade of life and I'm not afraid of being attacked by an intruder at night, don't feel the need to own a gun, and will run like a scared bitch to a cop if I'm attacked. I was mugged once in Africa. You know what my response was? Oh you like my shoes? Here ya go...

    what's wrong with me? Why can't I be more like Brian above and be prepared to defend my compound across a moat of fire and monster trucks? Is there a pill I can take?

  • Sevo||

    Robespierre Josef Stalin Pot|2.23.18 @ 12:25AM|#
    "There's something clearly wrong with me..."

    Yes, there is. Fuck off.

  • Robespierre Josef Stalin Pot||

    You know, this world would not be the same without you. You're my shining star, ok?

  • Dariush||

    "I was mugged once in Africa. You know what my response was? Oh you like my shoes? Here ya go..."

    I was mugged once too, about 12 years ago. I'll tell you what, the guy that tried didn't get to keep my wallet or my phone that he took at first. I got to keep my property and he was very happy to go running home into the night unharmed. All that without having to go run like a scared bitch to a cop. Just because you're an old limp dick fool doesn't mean that the rest of us have to comport ourselves as you. Everyone has the right to defend themselves and if it takes a gun to do it so be it, no matter how many assholes commit mass murder.

  • Enjoy Every Sandwich||

    There's nothing wrong with any of that, until you decide that you're entitled to force everybody else to live exactly as you do. At that point there's something very wrong with you.

    You are illustrating what is wrong with the "Nobody needs..." argument: the argument is always based on what the speaker feels that he needs.

  • Cy||

    "I was mugged once in Africa. You know what my response was? Oh you like my shoes? Here ya go..."

    I'm sure a coward like you'd throw his daughter or wife at them too.

  • KevinP||

    Maybe this woman should have said: Oh you like my body? Here ya go...

    Lancaster Woman Scares Off Bat-Wielding Attackers By Pulling Gun On Them


    Quote:
    LANCASTER, Ohio - It happened along a walking path in Lancaster.

    Dinah Burns is licensed to carry a concealed gun, but she'd only recently started taking her weapon while walking her dog.

    Based on what happened, it looks like she'll make a point of carrying from now on.

    "I think if they'd gotten any closer, I probably would have fired" said Burns.

    It was Monday when Burns was on a footpath near Sanderson Elementary School.

    "Two gentlemen came out of the woods, one holding a baseball bat, and said 'You're coming with us'."
  • Il Padrone||

    Is there a pill you can take? Yes, there is: a cyanide pill. Please take it forthwith...

  • Mock-star||

    " be prepared to defend my compound across a moat of fire and monster trucks? "

    You know that if you pay your mortgage, your creditors will stop trying to take their property back, right?

  • Red Rocks White Privilege||

    You're apparently terrified of paying your mortgage, however.

  • Echospinner||

    There is a lot of discussion about different types of firearms in this debate.

    Posting this for information for anyone who wants to learn more. This relates to the medical and physical differences in human injury between a military type rifle and more common civilian guns like a 9mm handgun.

    Also trying a new way of linking if it works.

    I welcome comments.

    goo.gl/tdf61r

  • Robespierre Josef Stalin Pot||

    If I want to be like Brian and Sevo above and want to blow a man's head like clean off which weapon should I use? Thanks doc!

  • Echospinner||

    "A blade never needs reloading"

    The zombie survival handbook.

  • Echospinner||

    Should not double post here but since I already made a post with a link that does not work well I feel obligated.

    kinetic energy is KE=mv^2 / 2. The key is that it is an exponential function.

    So both mass and velocity matter. The mass of the bullet is not that large in these rifles, the velocity is key.

    When the bullet hits the body many things can happen depending on what it hits and other factors.

    The higher velocity objects produce more cavitation. Think of that as a shockwave, that means instead of a hole in and out like a knife, there is extensive tearing damage all around the metal piece or pieces. Every military or non military trauma medical knows this.

    The article I tried to post was about the practical consequences of that and nothing else.

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    Muzzle velocity / energy comparison.

    5.56 Nato (.223) this is is the principle round used by the AR15 (it is available in other calibers.

    Velocity: 3100 ft/s
    Energy: 1770 J

    .30-06 Springfield. The original caliber of the M1 rifle used by the US Military in WW1 & WWII and is today a very popular round for hunting.

    Velocity: 2500-2900 ft/s
    Energy: 2800-3000 J

    .30/30 Winchester (what a lot of lever action rifles use) another popular hunting round.

    Velocity: 2200-2700 ft/s
    Energy 2300-2600 J

    J=Joules, a unit of energy.

  • Echospinner||

    Agreed.

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    If you really want to mess something up, you can get AR15 rifles in

    .458 SOCOM

    or

    .50 Beowulf

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    It's the difference between a rifle in general (except for .22LR or .22SR) and a pistol.

    The 5.56 (.223) Nato that is the original caliber of the AR15 isn't particularly powerful for a center fire rifle.

  • Frank Thorn||

    If I want to be like Brian and Sevo above and want to blow a man's head like clean off which weapon should I use? Thanks doc!

    .50 BMG

  • Echospinner||

    That sucks. Only works if you cut and paste.

    The original won't post as it is over 50 characters. Any help would be appreciated.

  • MatthewSlyfield||

    You need to format it as a proper HTML link for it to work and get past the 50 character limit.

    [a href="https://www.google.com/"]Google[/a]

    Replace [ and ] with < and >

    Google

  • Bubba Jones||

    Remove the s in https and it will auto shorten.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    Google "stack overflow html tiny links".

    It gives you an html code to enter a long link inside.

  • MarcS||

    Is it just me, or does it seem like it's more acceptable for a cop to panic and shoot the wrong people than it is for them to panic and not shoot anyone? I'm seeing a lot reliable law-and-order types and even other cops throwning Deputy Peterson under the bus for not charging into gunfire. Part of me wonders if he would have been better off just skinning out his gun and blasting some random kid. At least then the cops would be saying that you can't monday-morning quarterback an officer's decision making process in a life or death situation. You've never been there. You don't know what it's like to wear the badge.

  • Enjoy Every Sandwich||

    Maybe so. But the message I'm taking away from this is that it isn't practical to rely on the police to protect me, since it is too difficult for them to do so.

  • Ron||

    No need to shoot random kids you only shoot at the one with the gun

  • Trigger Warning||

    He didn't just resigned. This fucker signed his retirement paperwork Thursday afternoon.

  • Frank Thorn||

    Apparently, he's home, his hero buddies are getting paid to sit in their patrol cars and save him from the media.

  • damikesc||

    With this info, no gun control, period. Cops will not risk shit to protect you.

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    Funny how I haven't heard one liberal say the cop did the right thing by not putting kids or himself in danger by pulling his firearm around children.

    It's like they've had an awakening that a gun stationed at the school could have save some kids. Nah, they are just trying to score political points by says the cop should have done what they do not want.

  • loveconstitution1789||

    I wonder why this part of the story has not come out until now?

    Give these gun grabbers nothing. Take the 2nd Amendment protections back.

    No background checks. No armament bans. No GVROs. No limits on machine guns. etc.

  • BernieKilroy||

    I think you're mixing apples and oranges. The "no affirmative duty" rule applies only in the context of tort law, and whether the cop has a duty of care to the public to act. The rule serves to provide the cop with immunity from civil suit for nonfeasance.

    It does NOT mean that the cop has no public duty, or that it is not "his job."

  • TrickyVic (old school)||

    The funny thing is liberal NYC issues full auto rifles to some of the anti-terrorism task force officers. I've never heard a complaint from my liberal friends, nor have they ever said the feel in danger when they see a cop with one.

    Yep, NYC protects its citizens from terrorism with the use of full auto weapons. But your kids are not that important.

  • Jima||

    Once again proving that you yourself are the only person you can rely upon in a desperate situation. The liberals clamor for the ability to take away your ability to provide an effective defense for yourself. Meanwhile the authorities hide outside the door waiting for the shooting to stop. Yeah, I'll surrender my ability to defend myself...never. Even if brave men and women ran inside as soon as they arrived, they'd be late to the action. You have to be able to defend yourself. I'm not saying I want to carry a weapon everywhere I go, but I'm saying if I feel it might be wise, that's my decision to make. And if I don't do it, that's on me. The cops can't be everywhere at once, and people need to be able to react before they arrive if they're threatened. If there was always the threat of armed resistance, targets wouldn't seem so "soft". That deterrent effect might lessen the urge to shoot up schools. Arming already employed volunteers in school who are qualified, competent adults isn't a crazy idea.

  • Trainer||

    The shooter probably isn't a psychopath. Nothing about his background or actions seem to suggest that. To misdiagnose someone to does nothing to further the conversation.

  • ThomasD||

    Demanding that lay people speak in approved diagnostic terminology doesn't further the conversation either.

    People who shoot unarmed kids may be clinically sociopathic, but to everyone else they are plain psycho.

  • ConnectTheDots||

    Robby:
    Check this out-->> School police security (Sheriff Israel's team) Scot Peterson (was told to?) Stand Down. Three more deputies from Sheriff Israel's team were on scene but (were told to?) Stand Down. Those who took the warning calls at Sheriff Israel's office (were told to?) Stand Down and ignore the critical information. Those who took the calls at the (now disclosed as rampant corruption within it's walls) FBI (were told to?) Stand Down and take no action on the critical information.

    All of this STANDING DOWN had a predictable (planned?) result: High casualty school shooting which fires up the Democrat's war on guns (coincidentally while President Trump is having success in improving our country for every citizen, showing that Democrats KEEP minorities "down" while Republicans encourage the success of Every Citizen). Takes the spotlight off of the success of President Trump. Are Democrats SO DESPERATE in their corrupt need to be in office that they will orchestrate this UNbelievable assortment of orders to STAND DOWN?

    Some thing(s) to think about.

  • ConnectTheDots||

    Sincere condolences to each student, teacher, family and community member involved and/or impacted by this HORRIFIC shooting! Prayers for healing to each person.

  • John_G||

    At close range the advantage of a rifle over a duty pistol is significantly decreased. Both are lethal at close range, and the LEO would possibly be wearing a vest which would stop a 5.56 bullet.

  • ThomasD||

    Only the trauma plate would reluably prevent penetration. A hit anywhere else is going through.

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