Nanny State

8 Attacks on Freedom, From the Left and the Right

Americans are still relatively free.

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If you look around the country today you will find that, despite the best efforts of their betters, Americans still enjoy a fair amount of freedom to do as they wish. But the nation's busybodies are on the case, and will soon take care of that.

Item: Now that Republicans effectively have repealed Obamacare's individual mandate—the decree that every resident shall buy health insurance, whether he wants it or not—states are stepping in and pondering whether to impose their own. So far nine states and the District of Columbia have taken up the idea, even though less than half of Democrats favor the mandate.

Item: Numerous cities are now looking with longing at rent control to keep housing costs in check. Irony alert: Many of those same cities also impose tight restrictions on land use, which limits the supply of, and therefore drives up the cost of, living space. This is an economic point so obvious even the Obama administration could see it: "The Obama administration … is calling on cities and counties to rethink their zoning laws," Politico reported a couple of years ago, "saying that antiquated rules on construction, housing and land use are contributing to high rents and income inequality, and dragging down the U.S. economy as a whole." But why roll back regulations that raise the cost of housing when you can simply impose even more regulations to offset the effects of the first ones?

Item: The majority leader of California's state Assembly has introduced legislation that would impose a fine of up to $1,000 on any waiter or waitress who offers a plastic drinking straw to a customer without being asked. The Washington Post notes that this is part of a growing anti-straw movement, which is driven by alarm over the 500 million straws that are used every single day—which is almost certainly a fake number, seeing as how it is based on an unconfirmed phone survey by a 9-year-old boy. (Yes, really.)

Item: Two lawmakers in New York have introduced legislation to ban Tide Pods (those little plastic packages of laundry detergent), owing to the "Tide Pod Challenge," in which teenagers chew the things up for the delight of social media. Obviously, we don't want hundreds of children dying from such a phenomenon. Equally obviously, they aren't: From 2012 to 2017, two children died from eating detergent packets, which—as Reason's Christian Britschgi points out—is one-eighth as many children as died from swallowing batteries.

Item: The Seattle Times thinks it would be swell for Washington state to follow the lead of California and Hawaii, and raise the legal age for smoking and vaping to 21. Because while you can choose to risk your life in combat at that age, you shouldn't be able to choose to risk your life with Camels.

All of the preceding items reek of left-wing market interventionism and liberal nanny-statism, but conservatives often find freedom a loathsome inconvenience, too:

Item: New York Times columnist Ross Douthat recently suggested that American society would be much improved if we banned pornography. This, he argues, would lead to "better men" who are not "at once entitled and resentful, angry and … caddish … and frustrated that real women are less available and more complicated than the version on their screen." Interesting theory—but it runs up against the reality of how men treat women in times and places where porn is hard to come by, such as America in the 1840s or Saudi Arabia today.

Item: Republicans used to cheer free trade, but since Donald Trump rose to power they have turned sharply against it: 85 percent now think, wrongly, that free trade costs more jobs than it creates. Consequently, if an American chooses to buy a product from, say, China or Mexico, many Republicans would be happy to have the government step in with as much force as it can muster and say, "Oh no you don't!"

Item: Republicans also used to cheer immigration. But since Donald Trump rose to power they have had a change of heart there, too. This is probably the biggest current example of right-wing busybody-ism, and it is surely the worst, because it rests on so many dangerous premises.

There is, for instance, the belief that immigrants take "our" jobs. This presumes that somebody is entitled to a job in the first place. Not so. The only person entitled to decide who gets hired is the person offering the job. Nobody else has a claim on it.

Then there is the belief that too much immigration threatens America's identity. But America's identity, unlike that of most countries, has nothing to do with ethnicity or tribe. It is based on a set of eternal ideals, not a set of ephemeral genes.

So claiming that Latinos or Asians or some other group are "taking" "our" country from "us" is like claiming that Latinos or Asians are taking "our" theory of gravity.

America is freedom. If people come here to be free, they're not taking America—they're joining it. And they probably understand the country a lot better than the poor souls who worry that not enough Americans are being told what to do.

This column originally appeared in the Richmond Times-Dispatch.

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  1. Item: Republicans also used to cheer immigration.
    Its more about not cheering illegal immigration but some folks gotta keep that narrative alive.

    1. Now it’s all about restricting legal immigration. Am I wrong?

    2. Not to mention that the loudest support for the “tookerjerbs” theory is coming from unionized labor – i.e. erstwhile Democrats.

      I would argue that immigration is neither a Democrat or Republican issue. It’s certainly far more complicated than the article implies.

      It’s also at or near the bottom of any top-ten list of important issues facing the country. And yet it keeps getting trotted out by every side in order to beat the opposition over the head with it.

      1. Until the last ten years there was a broad postwar consensus from both parties in favor of a moderately pro-trade, pro-immigration position, with the Democrats somewhat more hawkish on both because “tookerjerbs” but with the difference between parties dwarfed by differences between individual politicians.

        This was never going to hold. It was one of those things on which the biggest divide was between the elites and the public, and it was not going to survive the ongoing Californiazation of the Democratic Party, the “nonideological” populist candidate just waiting to swoop into the Republicans, and just the increasing polarization that will eventually swallow everything in its path. Soon there will be a leftist and rightist way to hang the toilet paper.

      1. I am also for restricting legal immigrants but the largest Republican push is for curtailing illegal immigration.

        1. Are you still prancing about in silly libertarian drag, masquerading as something other than a right-wing authoritarian, or have you finally embraced your authentic, authoritarian. movement conservative self?

          1. I know that I am Libertarian. I also know that you are not based on how you talk around here.

            1. Re: loveconstitution1789,

              I know that I am Libertarian.

              Liar.

              1. Aw poor sockpuppet does not know what a Libertarian is.

                1. Re: loveconstitution1789,

                  Hey, imbecile, I’ve been commenting on libertarian matters here since I discovered Reason back in 2005. Who the fuck are you?I can tell you what it DOESN’T mean: imposibg your bigotry between peaceful and voluntary contractual agreements between nationals and foreigners who want to migrate to the US.

                  1. Some Mexican sock puppet: Sure you have. The Mexican handles seem to change daily.

                    Good luck tool.

                2. loveconstitution1789
                  Aw poor sockpuppet does not know what a Libertarian is.

                  LIBERTARIANS AREN’T SLURPING TEAT-SUCKERS LIKE YOU…. after elbowing out your own parent and children.

                  loveconstitution1789|2.8.18 @ 3:08PM|#

                  My retired father loves politics and we often discuss the nature of things.
                  I cannot get him to openly discuss social security and medicare reform with cuts. He is just hoping to check out before our debt crushes the USA. Its selfish as shit.

                  loveconstitution (sic) Insults HIS OWN FATHER, “selfish as shit” … but DEFENDS his own sucking at the gummint teat! (OMG) Alt-Right TROLL says more crushing debt is okay .. ONLY if it lines HIS pocket!

                  HIS TROLLING claims that a multi-trillion debt increase (tax cut) is “giving my own money back ” … FROM WHERE TROLL?

                  What kind of “libertarian” DENIES federal debt is stealing from our future … his own children?

                  HE WOULD CUT HIS FATHER’S BENEFITS .. AND STEAL FROM HIS OWN KIDS … TO ENRICH HIMSELF, BECAUSE … HE’S “ENTITLED.”

                  The NEW Entitlement Mentality. The Alt-Right. Self-righteous goobers of today’s GOP.

                  I know that I am Libertarian. I also know that you are not based on how you talk around here.

                  Does ANYONE ON EARTH talk more STATIST than you?.

                  SHAME ON YOU

                  1. Michael Hihn is one of Putin’s internet robots programmed to spread discord in America.

                    1. ANOTHER defender of teat-sucking on a libertarian website! And a Trumpian style conspiracy nut.
                      Two for one!

                3. Old Mexican is 1000x the libertarian you are, you little punk.

                  1. Old Mexican is 1000x the libertarian you are, you little punk.

                    Meant for ‘LoveCons’, of course.

                    1. It so cute when sock puppets come to each other’s aid to show how not Libertarian they are.

                      Narchists probably because sometimes the World just has to burn.

                    2. Palin’s Buttplug|2.19.18 @ 3:36PM|#
                      Old Mexican is 1000x the libertarian you are, you little punk.
                      Meant for ‘LoveCons’, of course.

                      Shut up, moron. All you do is lie.

                  2. All you lefty clowns on here are obviously not Libertarians.

                    Its funny when you jump between sock puppets.

                    Who cares how long you have been here because Reason doesn’t ban trolls like you.

                    1. loveconstitution1789|2.19.18 @ 6:57PM|#
                      are obviously not Libertarians.

                      Says the teat-sucking conservative who DEMANDS
                      entitlements for himself …. from o ver $2 trillion in new debt … while WHINING about America’s “crushing debt!”
                      .

                      loveconstitution1789|2.8.18 @ 3:08PM|#

                      My retired father loves politics and we often discuss the nature of things.
                      I cannot get him to openly discuss social security and medicare reform with cuts. He is just hoping to check out before our debt crushes the USA. Its selfish as shit.

                      loveconstitution (sic) Insults HIS OWN FATHER, “selfish as shit” … but DEFENDS his own sucking at the gummint teat! (OMG) … Alt-Right TROLL says more crushing debt is okay .. ONLY if it lines HIS pocket!

                      HIS TROLLING claims that a multi-trillion debt increase (tax cut) is “giving my own money back ” … FROM WHERE TROLL?

                      What kind of “libertarian” DENIES federal debt is stealing from our future … his own children?

                      HE WOULD CUT HIS FATHER’S BENEFITS .. AND STEAL FROM HIS OWN KIDS … TO ENRICH HIMSELF, BECAUSE …
                      HE’S “ENTITLED!”

                      The NEW Entitlement Mentality. The Alt-Right, self-righteous goobers of today’s GOP.

                      Left – Right = Zero

                      SHAME ON YOU

        2. Re: loveconstitution1789,

          I am also for restricting legal immigrants

          Why? Explain it to me like you actually thought about it instead of giving me the usual restrictionist bromides.

          1. I don’t respond to sockpuppets like you.

            1. Starting …now.

            2. Re: loveconstitution1789,

              I don’t respond to sockpuppets like you.

              That’s the extent of your discourse?

              You have NO idea, don’t you?

              1. “That’s the extent of your discourse?”

                loveconstitution (sic) is THE BIGGEST PHONY HERE.
                which is saying a LOT!

                And a shameless teat-sucker (gag)

                1. Let’s be honest, if there is a Russian troll lurking around here, he’s one of the top contenders.

                  1. Perhaps indirectly. He’s an alt-right Trumptard, claiming to be libertarian.

                  2. Hmmmmmmmm

                    1. It’s a discussion board, not a glory hole.

                  3. Tony, the FSB from Russia called to let you know you forgot to pick up your check for 20 rubles.

                    1. loveconstitution1789|2.19.18 @ 7:01PM|#
                      Tony, the FSB from Russia called to let you know you forgot to pick up your check for 20 rubles.

                      Says teat-sucking goober who DEMANDS entitlements for himself …. from over $2 trillion in new deficits… while WHINING about America’s “crushing debt!” .

                      loveconstitution1789|2.8.18 @ 3:08PM|#

                      My retired father loves politics and we often discuss the nature of things.
                      I cannot get him to openly discuss social security and medicare reform with cuts. He is just hoping to check out before our debt crushes the USA. Its selfish as shit.

                      loveconstitution (sic) Insults HIS OWN FATHER, “selfish as shit” … but DEFENDS his own sucking at the gummint teat! (OMG) … Alt-Right TROLL says more crushing debt is okay .. ONLY if it lines HIS pocket!

                      HIS TROLLING claims that a multi-trillion debt increase (tax cut) is “giving my own money back ” … FROM WHERE TROLL?

                      What kind of “libertarian” DENIES federal debt is stealing from our future … his own children?

                      HE WOULD CUT HIS FATHER’S BENEFITS .. AND STEAL FROM HIS OWN KIDS … TO ENRICH HIMSELF, BECAUSE …
                      HE’S “ENTITLED!”

                      The NEW Entitlement Mentality. The Alt-Right, self-righteous goobers of today’s GOP.

                      Left – Right = Zero

                      SHAME ON YOU

          2. Geez, OM, stop–you’re part of the Hihn/Tony/Buttplug brigade now–one of the ranting lunatics.

            Please.

            Remember who you were.

      2. That article is exactly what I expected, and a perfect case in point of what I’m talking about. It’s nothing but “Republicans are racist” gussied up in their usual smug, overwrought style. The goal is to plant the seed in their readers’ minds that there couldn’t possibly be any objections to massive immigration that don’t revolve around racism.

        1. Not all Republicans are racist. Not nearly.

          But everyone who voted for Trump was willing to appease bigotry for paltry, perceived partisan advantage, and anyone who accepts race-targeting voter suppression is a bigot.

          1. Wow, false dichotomy much?

        2. Re: Rhywun,

          The goal is to plant the seed in their readers’ minds that there couldn’t possibly be any objections to massive immigration

          What do you mean by “massive”? That would entail you possess the gift of foresight which only the very Gods possess.

          Can you at least make intelligent comments? No one is arguing for “letting everyobe in”. Only what the Market wants, that’s all.

          1. In the real world, “massive” is whatever the majority of Americans says it is. If they feel the current number is too high, they’ll elect someone who promises to lower it. Oh look, they did.

            1. What you says makes no sense. You’re saying in unequivocal terms that people who operate under a delusion get to define reality.

              1. You’re saying in unequivocal terms that people who operate under a delusion get to define reality.

                That is what elections are, in a nutshell.

            2. Rhy, can you explain to me why the gays have such a fixation on Mike Pence? Has he done anything particularly awful? (He well might have, and it wouldn’t surprise me; I just don’t know of anything.) Also explain the appeal of Adam Rippon while you’re at it, which is surely a far bigger mystery.

              1. Pence is a high priest in the American Taliban.

              2. I don’t know enough about Pence to explain that. I don’t read our newsletters.

                Also, I don’t know who Adam Rippon is.

                1. Adam Rippon, I think I have the name right, is the mediocre figure skater, sort of a more boring Johnny Weir, who has “won the Olympics” by picking a Twitter fight with Mike Pence apropos of nothing. I just wanted to see if there’s anything to it besides him drawing attention to himself–which, hey, can’t knock a hustle. (I had noticed Pence being the target of pretty fervent hostility beforehand, and knew it wasn’t “all cultural” like the hostility to Trump or gun rights, but figured it probably wasn’t worth the histrionics either, and wondered exactly where in between Mike Pence lies.)

                  Now that I think about it, I forget that you don’t follow any sport except, I presume, football. Sad!

                  1. Mike Pence picked a fight with a gay figure skater who did nothing but exercise his right to criticize the asshole, which is why it became news. Republicans, always punching down. As for how bad Pence is, he was the worst Republican in the country (with the religious crap) until Trump came along and made everyone look normal by comparison. But I trust Omarosa on this one.

                    1. Mike Pence picked a fight with a gay figure skater who did nothing but exercise his right to criticize the asshole,

                      How Tony thinks picking a fight works.

                    2. Do you have the goods on Pence, Fleshlight, since Rhywun is apparently so bad at gay?

                    3. No, I know nothing about it, mostly on purpose.

                    4. I’m slightly curious about this but only after it’s been translated from Tony-ese, but then again… no, I’m actually not curious.

                    5. Maddow’s Fleshlight
                      No, I know nothing about it, mostly on purpose

                      So you admit being a full-of-shit asshole here?
                      Impressive

                    6. Yep completely full of shit. Even about being full of shit.

                    7. You’re giving me a headache, man!

                    8. “Gay figure skater” is a redundancy.

                    9. You’d think that, but no. None of the other Americans this year are gay, for example. None of the figure skaters I know, either. But they’re certainly overrepresented, that’s for sure.

                    10. Pence did no such thing, That was Don Jr’s attack,.
                      Pence supported Rippon on Twitter, and it was HuffPost who defended Pence!!

                    11. Pence at one point supported re-education for gays to make them straight. It’s a bit crazy, but not violent unless forced.

                    12. The Christian Taliban is like that.

        3. It’s nothing but “Republicans are racist”

          Find a 12-year-old to read and explain it
          This is NOT the alt-right (who are fascists)

          The parallels between fascism and alt-right Trumpism are many
          1) Nationalism
          2) Deutschland Uber Alles and America First (uber alles means above all).
          3) Hitler’s master race and white supremacy.
          4) Anti-semitism and homophobia, Islamophobia.
          5) A strong-man leader

          I say that not for the labels, but WHY Trumpism is a severe threat to American values.
          Yes, Trump is not Hitler. But neither was Mussolini.

          1. Wow Hihn you seriously need to see someone about your mental state.
            I am genuinely concerned.

          2. White Nationalism = Fascism Lite.

            Less filling and all that.

            1. But does it taste great?

              1. To white guys. You ever seen a brutha with a Lite?

                1. Butt: Shut up, moron. All you do is lie.

        4. Hey, give them some credit. It would appear this particular list of “attacks on freedom from the Left and Right” is 5-3 Left. Present circumstances seem to have gotten such that even they could not come up with a properly “balanced and evenhanded” pox-on-both-your-houses list. How very gauche, Reason!

          1. Some people prefer facts.
            Others are tribal. loyalists.

      3. Herbert Hoover actually reversed immigration while his enforcers were shooting people over felony light beer. That may be the blueprint Beauregard is trying to follow.

    3. Re: loveconstitution1789,

      Its more about not cheering illegal immigration

      The current labor black market, which is what you’re actually referring to, is the direct result of the current hostility towards legal immigration. So saying that GOPers are against illegal immigration ‘only’ is engaging in dishonest discourse.

      1. This is a pattern. They’re against abortion but also hostile to birth control.

        1. They’re against abortion but also hostile to birth control.

          If someone believes that life begins at conception, then there is nothing inconsistent with that stance.

          Also, your argument is not exactly honest. Opposing federal funding of something isn’t the same as wanting that something to be banned.

          “Republicans oppose federal funding of abortions and birth control! They want to competely ban abortions and birth control!” and the straw man falls down dead.

          1. Life began billions of years ago in a manner we can only hypothesize about. And most birth control prevents conception, so what are you even talking about.

            The question should be more accurately framed: At what stage of development does a rights-bearing person come into being? And since we’re talking about American law, God doesn’t get a vote.

          2. If someone believes that life begins at conception, then there is nothing inconsistent with that stance.

            (laughing) The woman’s rights also began at conception. On what authority do YOU defy the Will of Almighty God?

            Since ALL unalienable rights are precisely equal, the fetal child’s unalienable right to Life is precisely equal to the Woman’s unalienable right to Liberty. You should have learned that in high school.

            You should have also learned that this CAN leads to conflicting (or competing) rights, where NEITHER is superior to the other … and how these conflicts are resolved. So you should have no trouble explaining to us how these conflicts have been resolved, for over two centuries, under our Constitution,

            So tell us.

            1. Read the first three words of the 14th Amendment… now try to understand them.

              1. Read the first three words of the 14th Amendment… now try to understand them.

                “All persons born” …. or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside.

                Hank thinks this is about CITIZENSHIP! (lol)

            2. (laughing) The woman’s rights also began at conception. On what authority do YOU defy the Will of Almighty God?

              So, if you say that her rights to…….abort a fetus……..began when she was just a newly fertilized egg and her right to eventually abort a fetus was so strong that she had to be allowed to be born so that she could exercise her right to eliminate someone elses right to life?

              There are literal maggots just chewing away at your brain, aren’t there?

              The right to life is pre-eminent over all other rights–because without it, one can HAVE no other rights.

              If you’re not alive you don’t have a right to free speech.
              If you’re not alive you don’t have a right to defend yourself.
              If you’re not alive you don’t have a right to privacy.
              If you’re not alive you don’t have a right to free migration.
              If you’re not alive you don’t have a right to anything. Because you aren’t.

              And no one gives a shit what your pathetic God says, Hihnny.

              1. When rightwing snowflakes are “triggered” in THEIR “safe space”

                So, if you say that her rights to…….abort a fetus……..began when she was just a newly fertilized egg

                It’s called a right to LIBERTY, goober

                We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are ndowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

                Goober’s raging fascism … to shout down an inconvenient dictionary definition
                All unalienable rights are precisely equal (if conflicting/competing with each other)

                What happens when two absolute rights are in conflict?
                Which prevails? Who decides? And why?

                Cyberbullying The act of bullying someone through electronic means (as by posting mean or threatening messages about the person online)

                psychopath
                1. A person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behaviour.

                SLAVER SAYS THE STATE CAN VIOLATE BY LIBERTY ,… TO SAVE THE LIFE OF A TOTAL STRANGER, THREE STATES AWAY … BARBARITY

                (Snark and boldface in DEFENSE of AGGRESSION and raging, out-of-control HATRED by a cyber-bully)

  2. I bet I can eat twice as many of those delicious-looking Tide Pods as any of you.

    1. You start. Ready go….

  3. On the Left, 4 were based on actual legislation.

    On the Right, all 3 were based on opinion polls or op-eds and not, you know, legislation.

    1. To add, of the 3 on the right there is a bit of a mischaracterization. I don’t know of much of a popular push on the right to actually ban pornography even religious people are personally against porn. If we are to talk of porn bans, it is necessary to also note the feminist and leftist objection (as well as legislation proposed.) I can agree that there is a fair amount of protectionist talk on the right (and also on the left) but it isn’t necessarily based in a rejection of free trade. Most of what I hear from the right in this regard is that the US has signed on to trade agreements that not only aren’t free but are to our disadvantage, especially NAFTA. On the point of immigration, it is worth noting that the right is concerned about maintaining the positive aspects of our culture and sees illegal and less restrictive immigration as harmful to that culture. If open borders leads to a more collectivist and anti-libertarian nation, should we favor it?

      1. I don’t know of much of a popular push on the right to actually ban pornography even religious people are personally against porn.

        Yeah, that was a stretch. Douthat isn’t the most conservative guy out there, but looking around, I cannot find major right wing sites that have discussed that (outside of “You know, porn isn’t doing relationships any favors”). I have seen none supporting Douthat.

        1. The Moral Majority/Focus on the Family American Taliban Christian Conservative bloc is solidly anti-porn. Hell, they hate and boycott Disney.

          The rot is deep in the GOP.

          1. Butt: Shut up, moron. All you do is lie.

      2. No, the antiporn shit is mostly left or “smart policy” centrist now. We are at a point where what remains of the religious right cannot do jack shit on anything except with an assist from the progs. That, of course, has often been forthcoming, from the 90s antiporn battles back to the antiliquor campaigns starting 100 years before. It would be nice to think that one benefit of this ridiculously polarized time would be to tend to preclude such coooperation–but no, I think they will find a way. Bipartisanship is hardly dead yet when it comes to fucking over the individual.

        1. The Moral Majority/Focus on the Family American Taliban Christian Conservative bloc is solidly anti-porn. Hell, they hate and boycott Disney.

          The rot is deep in the GOP.

    2. *cont
      Now to check the left wing violations listed.
      It’s debatable whether the states have the constitutional right to institute their insurance mandate, but the fact that democrats in general are divided in regards to this policy supported by their politicians is noteworthy. Rent control is a thing in pretty much any city and it’s used to control their populations. The left is especially guilty here and it has broad support from constituents, but I don’t know that it wouldn’t be just as much of a problem from right wing politicians if they were elected to urban areas. The cries of their constituents to do something about housing tends to lead down that path. The tide pod and straw bans are typical nanny government meddling and I suspect voters don’t support the politicians in their crusade of stupidity. Raising the age of vaping to 21 is foolish and as far as freedom goes is just as bad as alcohol not being legal until 3 years past legal age of adulthood. I can grant that this move is even more foolish due to alcohol being far more hazardous to those using the substance and the population at large.
      Hinkle really could have done better at picking anti-freedom initiatives from each side that are broadly supported by both politicians and voters on each side rather than these examples of politicians abusing their power.

      1. The parallels between fascism and alt-right Trumpism are many
        1) Nationalism
        2) Deutschland Uber Alles and America First (uber alles means above all).
        3) Hitler’s master race and white supremacy.
        4) Anti-semitism and homophobia, Islamophobia.
        5) A strong-man leader

        Both ONLY the alt-right fights to DEMAND a seat at the teat.

        I say that not for the labels, but WHY Trumpism is a severe threat to American values.
        Yes, Trump is not Hitler. But neither was Mussolini.

  4. Please do a story on the Lorde ban in Florida.

  5. There is, for instance, the belief that immigrants take “our” jobs. This presumes that somebody is entitled to a job in the first place. Not so. The only person entitled to decide who gets hired is the person offering the job. Nobody else has a claim on it.

    Translation: What OM said many times before –jobs belong to EMPLOYERS.

    1. But do employers own the immigration policy of the nation?

      I see no reason why US immigration policy should be crafted for the benefit of a minority of Americans who purchase labor to the cost of the majority of Americans who sell labor.

    2. Translation: What OM said many times before –jobs belong to EMPLOYERS.

      …except when they don’t want to hire Mexicans who’ve immigrated illegally. Then they’re rayciss and deserve what they get.

      FTFY–you wanna get the whole translation in for clarity.

    1. = Ross Douthat

        1. Why you keep name checking me guy I’ve never heard of.

          1. (laughing) I’m not the only one who knows you’re a fucking fraud, a hate-spewing bigot and a liar about the Constitution. HOW DARE YOU try to deny gays the defense of the fundamental rights. Even slaves had more rights. Then again, you are from goober country, south Texas, with a long history of racism.

            And what a stupid question you ask!

            1. Right, but who are you guy I’ve never heard of.

              1. (smirk) Doesn’t matter. I got your number.
                And your sock puppet’s

                1. “Doesn’t matter. ”

                  Agreed, you don’t matter.

                  And I will still never fuck you.

                  1. I rejected you first. Ron is SUCH a goober.
                    He just lied about what I said … which all can see. He doesn’t even care.

                    Cyberbullying The act of bullying someone through electronic means (as by posting mean or threatening messages about the person online)

                    Stalker A person who harasses or persecutes someone with unwanted and obsessive attention

                    psychopath 1. A person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behaviour.
                    2. The Authoritarian Left
                    3. The Authoritarian Right

                    Left – Right = Zero

                    1. “I rejected you first. ”

                      Nope. And I will still never fuck you guy who I never heard of.

                      Sorry.

                    2. “Ron Paul|2.19.18 @ 4:54PM|#

                      No matter how much you neg me I’m never going to let you sleep with me”

                      That’s a time stamp. I’m not surprised that you don’t understand what it does guy who admits he doesn’t matter, that I’ve never heard of.

                      Timestamps don’t lie, guy who I never heard of, that admitted he doesn’t matter.

                      No means no.

                    3. That’s a time stamp

                      YOU FUCKING LIE what you said then.
                      And this one is over 3 hours earlier (sneer)

                      Michael Hihn|2.19.18 @ 1:47PM

                      Timestamps don’t lie

                      But Ron Paul always has, like all authoritarians.

                      guy who admits he doesn’t matter,

                      You’re PROVEN a liar, here
                      As you PISS on Non-Aggression, so shamelessly, as also a STALKING bully …a DISGRACE to the cause of liberty,

                      Aggression The action or an act of attacking without provocation

                      Cyberbullying The act of bullying someone through electronic means (as by posting mean or threatening messages about the person online)

                      Stalker A person who harasses or persecutes someone with unwanted and obsessive attention
                      And PLEASE spare us your obsession with gay sex. I’d NEVER allow you to fuck me

                      psychopath
                      A person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behaviour.

                      Left – Right = Zero

      1. I still like the original meaning, Doesn’t matter what value anyone assigns them. They are equal.

        Warfare vs welfare
        Two sides of the same fascist coin.

        Republicans want government out of your wallet and into your bedroom.
        Democrats want government out of your bedroom and into your wallet.

        1. Republicans claim to want government out of your wallet and into your bedroom.
          Democrats claim to want government out of your bedroom and into your wallet.

          In practice there is little difference between the two.

          FTFY

          1. Republicans DENY the goals of their Christian Taliban fascists…. but which sarcasmic reveals here.
            Democrats DENY their FISCAL fascism.

            Libertarians reject both, having been fiscally conservative and socially liberal for just under a half-century.
            As are over 60% of Americans.

            Left – Right = Zero.
            Left and Right are obsolete.

            Any questions?

  6. I don’t know if the anti-porn thing is bigger than ever, but I’ve run across that agenda in unexpected places and it seems to be a thing lately for the Christianists. I want to have that debate. I really do. It would be more fun than the usual dour abortion crap and whatnot.

    1. They have this thing — bullshit — about Separation — which requires a LOT of ignorance about our early history.

    2. Good luck finding someone to defend that. Time for you to rage against a straw man. As usual.

      1. Your irony is HYSTERICAL … as you rage against strawmmen here and here

    3. We had the debate back in the 80s. I thought it was behind us.

      1. I know! The issue came up at my job recently out of left field (this is not the sort of thing that usually comes up in my work, and it’s a long story). Apparently there’s this whole underground anti-porn movement thing among the moderate-to-bigly wacko Christians.

        Basically it’s like arguments about drugs. Some people are addicted, but they claim it’s inherently addictive and always destroys marriages.

        1. It’s adultery in the mind, and it doesn’t to marriages any good. I wouldn’t go so far as to say it destroys marriage, but women don’t like it when their man spanks it to women who are better looking than her. Kinda wears on her self esteem and creates resentment.

          1. ^^ See?! It’s like pod people.

          2. Yeah, it’s pretty easy to understand why the pro-marriage camp would be anti-porn.

            The question is, do they have any right to prohibit it? Of course not.

            1. Wouldn’t it be nice if we didn’t have to go through the whole process where we inevitably discover the loudest anti-porn voices are the ones who like to watch people fuck goats and such?

            2. I am not sure if it does, empirically, weaken marriages, or if it is inherently unhealthy. (I would very strongly suspect no on at least the latter. I have noticed the rise of a male-centered porn-abstention movement that is entirely secular and does not appear to have any feminist influence. I don’t know how popular it really is, but it’s interesting more from a sociological point of view than as anything with any actual clinical benefit, I imagine.)

              It’s not hard to see why Christianity (and Judaism, Islam, etc.) would morally disapprove of porn! They have a tendency, of course, to overreach and assert empirical benefits for their moral teachings, but nonetheless insofar as these are the “pro-marriage” folks we’re talking about, their antiporn stance is better characterized directly in terms of theological objections than to some sort of practical desire to preserve marriages by reducing resentment or whatever.

              1. would morally disapprove of porn

                The uneducated goobers say procreation is the sole purpose of sex … somehow brainwashed out of what they learned in high school biology ,.. or every time they HAVE sex!

                Sex = procreation only for the lower animals. Not humans!

          3. Marriage is the primary cause of divorce.

          4. The women don’t have to be “better looking”. They just have to be different.

      2. Many like to pretend its’ behind us. A coverup. But the Christian Taliban has become a LOT worse..
        It’s not like when Goldwater and Reagan either ignored them or battled and defeated them.

        Goldwater did predict the Moral Majority was a severe threat to his party, and famously urged all Christians to “give Jerry Falwell a kick in the ass.”

        Reagan took on the nationwide, anti-gay Anita Bryant Crusade, beat them, and crushed it .. openly ridiculing their CA initiative to ban gay school teachers, changing it from leading in the polls to a landslide loss, “Our children have nothing to fear from gay school teachers, because homosexuality is not contagious, like measles.” KAPOW. After his Presidency, he and Nancy launched their own foundation to fund AIDS research, where he again ridiculed the persecution of gays by SOME religious (the bigots)

        They were both defending gays in the 70s, two decades before Clinton shamelessly signed DADT and DOMA, and nearly four decades before Obama “evolved.” And before Ron Paul became the biggest fascist of all — sponsoring a bill that would have forbidden SCOTUS from hearing any defense of constitutional rights by homosexuals — even slaves had more rights than Ron would have allowed gays. Ron is now the spiritual and intellectual; godfather of the alt-right, mostly for his KKK-style States Rights attacks on Federalism..

        1. No matter how much you neg me I’m never going to let you sleep with me

          1. Believe it! If you were able to resist even the seductions of Sacha Baron Cohen you are truly the straightest of us straights.

          2. Don’t flatter yourself. Low-life scum, like you, are nothing I even want to be within a mile of.

            1. Never gonna fuck you. Ever.

              1. Or do this, as you so eloquently explained it to the Mises Institute.

              2. I already said that. (smirk)

                1. Yeah, to save face after I told you it would never happen.

                  Sorry.

                  1. Don’t flatter yourself, sock puppet. Low-life scum, like you, are nothing I even want to be within a mile of.

                    1. Who are you, trying so hard to fuck me, again?

                    2. Don’t flatter yourself, sock puppet. Low-life scum, like you, are nothing I even want to be within a mile of.

                      Who are you, trying so hard to fuck me, again?

                      Don’t flatter yourself, sock puppet. Low-life scum, like you, are nothing I even want to be within a mile of.

                    3. Yeah, but who are you again, person trying to fuck me?

                    4. Aggression The action or an act of attacking without provocation

                      Verbal hostility, or in other words, verbal harassment or abuse is basically a negative defining statement told to or about you or withholding a response and pretending the abuse is not happening.

                      Cyberbullying The act of bullying someone through electronic means (as by posting mean or threatening messages about the person online)

                      Stalker A person who harasses or persecutes someone with unwanted and obsessive attention

                      psychopath
                      1. A person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behaviour.
                      2. The Authoritarian Left
                      3. The Authoritarian Right

                    5. Is that your explanation for why you’re trying to fuck me?

                      Because it’s still never going to happen no matter how many of those pathologies you admit to

  7. even though less than half of Democrats favor the mandate.

    Whoa, I know that all Republicans are literally neo-nazis, but I didn’t realize that more than half of Democrats were too.

    1. Yeah, but repealing the mandate, while keeping guaranteed issue, will ACCELERATE the death spiral on premiums. Republicans will blame Obamacare for the damage THEY caused, and their goobers will swallow THAT, too!
      Such fun watching the GOP collapse into rubble.

      1. The republicans created the affordable care act.

        I’ll be damned. learned something today.

        1. The Affordable Care Act would have worked if it wasn’t for those pesky Republicans!

          1. The Affordable Care Act would have worked if it wasn’t for those pesky Republicans

            The assholes REFUSED the bipartisan deal that would have killed single-payer forever. They didn’t want Obama to get credit!!

            ALMOST as stupid as now!!!

          1. They called it ObamaCare and forced Americans to buy insurance under threat of death.

            1. and forced Americans to buy insurance under threat of death.

              Alt-right goobers be bullshitters for their tribe.

        2. Republicans created the ACA .. but the opposite of what you likely believe. Obama had campaigned as a left-moderate on health care, opposing the mandate was how he killed off Hillary and Roberts in 2008.

          And he had a bipartisan compromise for Republicans, much like Kennedy avoided his far left by working with Republicans on his tax cuts, But THESE Republicans were already corrupted by their hatred for Obama and … REFUSED the deal that would have killed single-payer forever ,.. thus forcing Obama to his far left, the very last ACA “backroom deal.”

          Even now, dumbfuck GOP is forcing us toward single-payer. Now the party of goobers, they’re killing us.

          1. So, Obama had to do something, the ACA was something and its the Republicans fsult it was not something else?

            Your logic is flawless,…if you are insane.

            1. So, Obama had to do something, the ACA was something and its the Republicans fault it was not something else?

              On more time for dumbfuck bully: THEY REJECTED A BIPARTISAN COMPROMISE THAT WOULD HAVE ENDED SINGLE-PAYER FOREVER …

              Educate yourself here, brainwashed puppet

              Wait for it asshole …

              Obama had campaigned as a MODERATE on health care, ridiculed a mandate, said reducing costs was first priorityy … actual video PROOF from Gary Johnson ad, Gomer

              Like JFK worked with Republicans for his tax cuts … which allowed him to avoid HIS far-left for votes.

              Your logic is flawless,…if you are insane.

              My PROOF is flawless ,… JAMMED UP YOUR ASS

              Brainwashed puppet of the political elites …. as helpless as a proggie.. FOOL.

              (snark and boldface in defense of a cyber-bully — a STOOPID one)

      2. The mandate is unpopular and guaranteed issue is popular. Neither are things the government should have aut hority to impose on the people.

        Government is the art of the possible, and sometimes undoing legislationbased on bad.assumptions leads to ugly results.

        1. The mandate is unpopular and guaranteed issue is popular.

          Which is WHY Trump and his party fucked it up.

          1. Since Congress won’t repeal ObamaCare, Trump will help it implode.

            1. He’s the one who fucked it up. Both the repeal and the higher premiums.

  8. Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right..

    1. I know, right? This whole thread has every single crappy Reason troll in it.

      1. Now that Red Tony is here. (gag)

  9. Michael Hihn = Putin’s favorite internet roBot

    1. Rockabilly — cyber-bully stalking me with infantile aggressions (does he also giggle?)

      Aggression The action or an act of attacking without provocation

      Verbal hostility, or in other words, verbal harassment or abuse is basically a negative defining statement told to or about you or withholding a response and pretending the abuse is not happening.

      Cyberbullying The act of bullying someone through electronic means (as by posting mean or threatening messages about the person online)

      Stalker A person who harasses or persecutes someone with unwanted and obsessive attention

      psychopath A person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behaviour.

      (sneer)

  10. As usual, Hinkle’s looter press puts cart before horse. Nick in effect chose the sitting prez 10 months before he nomination when he held the mic as The Don grinned Libertarianism? “I like it.” One Ross Perot was enough, and the Outsider from Central Casting has hewed to the letter and spirit of the Republican Platform–with perhaps slightly less emphasis on the coathanger amendment copied from the Prohibition Party platform. The Dems can now shed their econazi advisors and stop trying to ban electricity and nationalize stuff. Yes over 96% vote for authoritarian looters, and that is what’s behind those idiotic bills. The LP is growing, and that’s the part that matters. The looters have no choice but to become less authoritarian.

  11. “Then there is the belief that too much immigration threatens America’s identity. But America’s identity, unlike that of most countries, has nothing to do with ethnicity or tribe. It is based on a set of eternal ideals, not a set of ephemeral genes”

    Yes, America is built on a shared set of ideals. But inviting too many people to come here who do not share those ideals, or worse, who actively hate those ideals, is not a good idea.

    No organization can bring in too many outsiders without changing its basic nature. For the US, it’s probably about 0.1% per year, or 300,000 legal immigrants. And we should require a bit of diversity in those immigrants, roughly in line with the populations of that group around the world. A merit system, with points for family already here, is a good idea. And let those illegals who are here already apply as well.

    1. Yes, America is built on a shared set of ideals. But inviting too many people to come here who do not share those ideals,

      One of those ideals is called tolerance.

      or worse, who actively hate those ideals

      Trump, the alt-right and Ron Paul are already here
      And the haters.

      1. Still not going to fuck you, guy, get over it.

        1. You haven’t figured out that I hate you???

          1. You say that now, after your clumsy attempts to fuck me were shot down.

            1. That is NOT what “fuck you” means, Sparky

              1. Who are you again, guy who I shot down who can’t stop trying to fuck me, or get me out of his head, where I live rent-free?

                Because you’re never going to fuck me.

                1. Aggression The action or an act of attacking without provocation

                  Verbal hostility, or in other words, verbal harassment or abuse is basically a negative defining statement told to or about you or withholding a response and pretending the abuse is not happening.

                  Cyberbullying The act of bullying someone through electronic means (as by posting mean or threatening messages about the person online)

                  Stalker A person who harasses or persecutes someone with unwanted and obsessive attention

                  psychopath
                  1. A person suffering from chronic mental disorder with abnormal or violent social behaviour.
                  2. The Authoritarian Left
                  3. The Authoritarian Right

                  Defense capability of resisting attack

                  1. Why do you keep sharing your psychiatric diagnosis?

                    I’m still not going to fuck you, you’re nobody, and I matter.

                  2. I swear if he starts talking about being free to gambol about the country….

                    1. Yeah, but Ron has has been a psycho, and a suck-ass to the Christian Taliban

  12. Item: Open Borders
    Overwhelming the shrinking number of freedom loving Americans at the polls by importing an endless torrent of big government voters.

    1. Read the article. You’re full of shit, a typical alt-right fascist.
      Like Mcarthyites in he 50s, you’d restrict residence with a partisan purity test. YOUR TRIBE ONLY.

      The parallels between fascism and alt-right Trumpism are many
      1) Nationalism
      2) Deutschland Uber Alles and America First (uber alles means above all).
      3) Hitler’s master race and white supremacy.
      4) Anti-semitism and homophobia, Islamophobia.
      5) A strong-man leader

      I say that not for the labels, but WHY Trumpism is a severe threat to American values.
      Yes, Trump is not Hitler. But neither was Mussolini.

      Go troll your bigotry at Fox/Breitbart/Infowars/Drudge

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