Update: 17 Dead in South Florida High School Shooting

Officials say a suspect is in custody.

A person opened fire at Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida this afternoon. There have been official reports of injuries and fatalities, but the information is extremely vague and will no doubt become more specific as more news is available.

The Broward County Sheriff's Department says they have a suspect in custody and that 14 victims have been transported to nearby hospitals. The mayor of Coral Springs, whose fire department helped respond to the call, says there have been fatalities.

CBS posted this video of a student filming on his cell phone while seeking refuge in a classroom. Many gunshots can be heard:

NEW: (WARNING-graphic scene) Cell phone video that was taken inside a classroom shows students hiding for cover while gunshots are heard in the background pic.twitter.com/FgmQRW18xH

— CBS This Morning (@CBSThisMorning) February 14, 2018

(UPDATE: CBS This Morning has deleted the video footage above from Twitter, saying "Due to the sensitive content @cbsthismorning has decided to take down video previously posted.")

A local news station spoke to a couple of students who fled the campus. They said that they had done a fire drill earlier in the day. Then the fire alarm went off again and they thought it was another drill. Another student indicated that the school had previously done an active shooter drill with somebody actually shooting a gun with blanks. He said that when he heard gunfire, he thought at first they might be doing another shooter drill:

Student describes scene at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School pic.twitter.com/KPgYpJGeWA

— WSVN 7 News (@wsvn) February 14, 2018

President Donald Trump tweeted his prayers and condolences after being apprised of the situation. There will obviously be more to come.

UPDATE:

The "Broward Sheriff's Office is reporting 17 dead," according to the Miami Herald:

An American nightmare unfolded Wednesday afternoon at a North Broward high school after a former student came onto campus and opened fire, killing 17.

Details are beginning to emerge amid a flurry of police activity at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, where students puzzled at the sound of a fire alarm going off just before dismissal were launched into a panic when gunfire punctuated the din. As teachers and students fled hallways and hid under desks, a former student who teachers and parents say was known to be dangerous came onto campus and unloaded, leaving a trail of bodies and stunned confusion in his wake.

Nicolas de Jesus Cruz, 19, has been taken into police custody. The Broward Sheriff's Office is reporting 17 dead, and is still working to clear all the buildings at the massive school, home to about 3,200 students.

They have yet to name a motive for the shooting, which they say doesn't immediately appear to have been prompted by any confrontation.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Another student indicated that the school had previously done an active shooter drill with somebody actually shooting a gun with blanks. He said that when he heard gunfire, he thought at first they might be doing another shooter drill...

I'm vacillating between whether simulating gunfire in a drill is a good idea or not. I suppose if students think it's a drill but still spring into action (duck-and-cover as it may be), it ultimately had the desired effect.

[mad.casual]

I'm vacillating between whether simulating gunfire in a drill is a good idea or not.

Not. Otherwise, set the school on fire to practice fire drills and actually plant bombs and seed pathogens to test those emergencies as well.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I don't know. Even in Florida, perhaps not all students know the sound of gunfire.

[silver.]

A lot of people don't know the sound of gunfire.

Although if somebody is setting off multiple fireworks in your building, you probably ought to be alert, too.

[mad.casual]

Even in Florida, perhaps not all students know the sound of gunfire.

Discharging a weapon, even into the ceiling or with blanks is a threat. The alert is meant to notify you of the threat, not wholly inform you and/or supplant it.

As can be seen, both the fire drill and the previous training drill (however long ago) were used to generate confusion. Practice, especially the over-specialized or the wrong kind of practice, doesn't reduce confusion.

I'm not a fan of proliferating color codes either.

[Sanjuro Tsubaki]

Every generation needs to know all there is to know about how to duck and cover on command. That's what schools are for. The kids are more likely to die of obesity and ignorance than lightening strikes or rampage shootings, but schools should focus on what they're good at.

[Jerryskids]

The details are pretty vague, but one thing we can all agree on is Congress must do something. That'll fix things.

[John]

Sure, right after we agree that anyone who disagrees with my politics has blood on their hands over this.

[SIV]

I blame cosmotarians with their 2A squishiness.

[John]

I blame Soave and his millennial hair.

[SIV]

To be sure...

[gclancy51]

This is the one issue in which Libertarians can't really answer though; it happens nowhere else. You give idiots guns and they're going to shoot people.

[Microaggressor]

Libertarians can't really answer though
They need to come up with some clever new idea, like using guns for self defense.

[Raston Bot]

Lol. "It only happens here" is my all-time favorite. "common sense" and "blood on hands" are still funny just a bit dated. and of course any mention of OECD's "developed countries" gets bonus points.

[Michael Ejercito]

I wonder why they never bring up Mexico.

[nrob]

Mexico is the ultimate in the ideological shell game, use it when you need it, disappear it when you don't. It's the ultimate narrative pusher.

[gclancy51]

If I modified the sentence to include "with such incredible frequency", would it still be LOL-worthy?

And is a comparison to Switzerland's incredibly high gun ownership yet ability to avoid mass-shootings really worth ironic bonus points? Aren't you even vaguely curious about learning potential solutions from other countries?

Shouldn't you really be taking a long, hard, look at yourselves and wondering why Americans are so batshit crazy about guns?!?

It does speak volumes about how normalized these incidents are though from the frequency of eye-rolling tedium with which you receive such news. Breivik is still front-page news in Norway, whereas this will be forgotten in the media by March.

But as long as the government doesn't interfere, everything's fine and dandy, right?

Ideology is an amazing construct all right, the cognitive dissonance it creates is amazing.

[DesigNate]

Fuck off, slaver.

[loveconstitution1789]

Ban gun free zones?

You cannot outrun a bullet.

[Sanjuro Tsubaki]

Congress has pretty much fixed everything already.

[Fist of Etiquette]

There will obviously be more to come.

For certain.

[Don't look at me.]

Reporting on an orgy or a shooting?

[loveconstitution1789]

The come shot.

[John]

Quick, let's jump to conclusions and conclude everyone we don't like should have to answer for this.

[Ken Shultz]

We don't know what happened or why, but, whatever it is that happened and whatever the reasons, we can be sure that the Democrats will use it as an excuse to come after our Second Amendment rights.

[John]

Because some nut shot up a school in Florida, some guy living in Texas needs to give up his guns or else. The children demand it.

[Unicorn Abattoir]

I'd like to point out that there's nothing in the Constitution precluding us from banning Florida.

[Michael Ejercito]

It is more like, "because some white boy shot up a school, black men need to give up their guns or else".

[VinniUSMC]

"Nicolas de Jesus Cruz"

Some white boy.

[dave b.]

He's a white Hispanic

[DesigNate]

I like this angle. I think I'll use it on FB.

[Michael Ejercito]

"Be Our Guest", as Ewan McGregor would sing.

[silver.]

I had to learn to not be sensational and dramatic about these events when I was younger. I made a big deal out of a shooting on social media when I was 15, and claimed that they were coming for all our guns.

Now, to be sure, some of them are. Some anti-2A folks all-but dance in the blood of victims, and gun owners (and even guns themselves - inert pieces of steel) are vilified by these same people.

I've mellowed with age, like green label Evan Williams, and I realize now that they're not going to get the guns unless they have a magic wand. The hundreds of millions of evil, "unregistered" firearms are going to ostensibly end up in the bottom of a body of water. They get lost on fishing trips and such, you see. The snatchers are welcome to dredge it.

[Michael Ejercito]

Yes, because a War on Guns?? will be as effective in suppressing gang violence as the War on Drugs??.

[SunkCost]

I wouldn't worry. After Sandyhook we did nothing. If we're cool with 5-year-olds getting mowed down with an AR-15 we're pretty much cool with anything.

[Michael Ejercito]

After tbr Sandy Hook shooting, the police investigated, and they identified a suspect.

That is supposed to be nothing?

[LarryA]

"After Sandy Hook we did nothing" means Congress didn't pass a gun control bill with a bunch of provisions that failed to stop Sandy Hook.

What did happen is that school administrators are starting to realize that "Gun-Free" isn't.

According to the Texas Association of School Boards, more than 10 percent of Texas school districts now have faculty carrying guns. Schools that aren't letting teachers carry, like Sandy Hook, are getting school resource officers. Big city school districts are beefing up their private police forces.

The developing paradigm is that if someone comes in the door to hurt kids, you need someone on campus equipped to stop him.

[Brendan]

I doubt very many people were cool with it.

There seems to be this idea that if a person isn't willing to do something, anything, in response to a tragedy, then they must support or condone it.

In that case, I suggest we allow anyone with a CCW to carry on school grounds, teachers, principals, etc.

They already carry in numerous other places.

If it'll save a single life, allow those who already carry in other places to also carry on school grouns.

[Procyon Rotor]

Who's we? Andrew Cuomo decided he needed to grandstand and push the legislature to pass the NY SAFE Act, which is still the law in the state and mandates such ridiculous things as not putting more than 7 rounds in your 10-round magazines.

[Rev. Arthur L. Kirkland]

I hope the sorely needed backlash against gun nuttery does not diminish an American's right to possess a reasonable firearm for self-defense in the home.

[LarryA]

The gun I keep for home defense won't do a lot of good if my grandchild's school has an active killer.

And yes, my [sarc] meter is working.

[VinniUSMC]

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear [a reasonable firearm for self-defense in the home] shall not be infringed."

That's what "reason and logic" looks like to Artie.

[mad.casual]

Quick, let's jump to conclusions and conclude everyone we don't like should have to answer for this.

Valentine's Day is no longer a victimless holiday, that's for sure.

[TangoDelta]

It never was a victimless holiday since it essentially commemorates the day some priest in ancient Rome named Valentine was beaten to death and beheaded by the government.

[Ken Shultz]

My heart goes out to the victims and their families.

[John]

I feel the worst for the parents of whoever did this since it was probably a student. As bad as it would be to have your kid be murdered, it would be a hundred times worse to have your kid be a mass murderer. What a nightmare.

[IceTrey]

It was a former student.

[JFree]

He was 19 so prob left last year - and his mother died in Nov (his father died 10 years ago) and the family friend that took him in (Parkland being one of those places where there is zero chance he could have afforded to rent) had a kid who's a senior. So he was still pretty much a student.

[sarcasmic]

I hated high school and high schoolers growing up. Typical libertarian. But never enough to wish this on anyone.
This is what the police are for. Not for executing warrants on people suspected of victimless crime, but for shit like this.

I can't even imagine the pain...

[Sevo]

sarcasmic|2.14.18 @ 4:57PM|#
"I hated high school and high schoolers growing up. Typical libertarian. But never enough to wish this on anyone."

I think the "Typical libertarian" needs to be placed at the end.
I despised high-school and the associated social goupings and was more than happy to see it in the rear-view mirror. But, as a "typical libertarian", I had no desire to kill anyone over my displeasure, regardless of the guns we had at home.

[DrZ]

I thought that they did not allow guns in school? Didn't the shooter know this? Certainly people who could have had guns, but did not knew this.

[This Machine Chips Fascists]

former student with hx of threats

http://www.miamiherald.com/new.....94039.html

[John]

We were told last year that he wasn't allowed on campus with a backpack on him," said math teacher Jim Gard, who said the former student suspected in the shootings had been in his class last year. "There were problems with him last year threatening students, and I guess he was asked to leave campus."

Gard says he believes the school administration had sent out an email warning teachers that the student had made threats against other in the past and that he should not be allowed on the campus with a backpack. Another student interviewed on the scene by Channel 7 said the student had guns at home.

Another known wolf. It was a gun free zone. So the teachers and students there had no choice but to sit round waiting to be shot and hoping this clown didn't really mean it.

[Tionico]

that warning was not accurately made... it SHOULD have been "MUST not be allowed on campus. If seen, call law enforcement instantly".
A backpack can pretty easily conceal a handgun. It can conceal many other things, like claw hammers, chef knives, hand grenades, glass bottles of juice... all of which can, and have been, used for evil purposes.
A pocket in his baggy britches can also conceal items every bit as lethal.

If he can't be trusted with a backpack, why can he be trusted without a custodian whilst on campus? And I don't mean a typical mop pilot. I mean a professional full time supervisor.

[Rich]

If he can't be trusted with a backpack, why can he be trusted without a custodian whilst on campus?

IIRC, some wag has said something to the effect that anyone who can't be trusted with a loaded firearm can't be trusted without a custodian.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I wish they hadn't released the name. Wish they did with shooters like they try to do with serial killers. Give them no recognition and no media attention.

[John]

I agree. Stop putting this crap on the news. It doesn't bring anyone who was killed back. All it does is tell other nuts that killing a bunch of people is a way to get famous.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Yes. I wish that journalists would enter into a gentlemen's agreement not to do so. Sadly, I fear that many in the culture crave this information and seek it out. Even ignoring that people love using incidents like this for political change.

[silver.]

Indeed, and I can't say that I don't have a curiosity about the mindsets of spree and serial killers. I've read a few books about Columbine and the VA Tech shooter. If you want to go down in infamy, you shoot up a place.

I'd be willing to forsake a hobby to prevent more of these tragedies.

Also, I blame 4chan. It's always 4chan.

[BestUsedCarSales]

/pol/ IS a garbage fire.

[creech]

Other than media saturation, what has changed to make shooting your classmates the acceptable way to protest, say, bullying? Back in the day, firearms were everywhere but "we" resorted to setting a trash can on fire in the boys room or calling in a bomb threat to show displeasure with the school administration or other students. One time, the couple bullies came out from a dance and found someone had smeared dog crap all over the inside of their cars. But if there were any shootings, they didn't make 24/7 national news cycles.

[XM]

Is there a point to the media concealing the name of the shooter? Everyone and anyone can search for it online, and in this age of social media, the shooter almost certainly left footprints somewhere.

The internet already posted Cruz's Instagram before the FBI could scrub it. Paddock was really one of the exception to the mass shooter profile since his social media account was invisible.

The problem is social media. It provides a stage for lunatics. It's obviously a useful tool for many normal people, but it's often used for a lot of evil - bullying, judging, doxxing, etc. I have one bare bones Facebook account and that's about it. I will never join Twitter or photo sharing sites. I laugh at Yelp and Rotten Tomato reviews, and yet they have huge sway over entire markets.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Yes, and it's possible to find serial killers currently as well. But you'd be surprised at the amount of information and sway the media still has. It is something. I can't see the future and tell you it will help for certain, but it seems a reasonable step, if at least from a moral standpoint.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I agree that it provides a stage for nutjobs.

But then again, if a gun is just a tool, then so is social media.

The only one responsible for this act is the shooter.

He's been arrested. Try him. If the evidence is sufficient, convict him and punish him. And then forget about it. Cuz you can't prevent it without trampling on the rights of the innocent.

[Michael Ejercito]

Why not?

How has the War on Drugs?? trampled the rights of the innocent?

[Otis B. Driftwood]

I disagree. The "assault-style rifle" killed those innocent kids. The guy holding it was innocent. They should prosecute that rifle to the full extent of the law.

[ThomasD]

Death penalty for mechanical devices!

[silver.]

hx

Is this a medical shorthand? I think that's the only place I've seen it used.

[This Machine Chips Fascists]

yes, sorry, it means history

[silver.]

I hated Valentine's day, too, when I was in high school.

I bitched about it on my livejournal.

I'm unveiling my new program to reduce these tragedies, "LJs not AKs."

Never let a crisis go to waste, after all... 🙁

[Cynical Asshole]

What's an LJ?

"If you have to ask, you can't afford it."

[Red Tony]

LiveJournal.

Which is owned by the Russian government now.

Which means this was all part of Trump's Evil Plan!

[gormadoc]

Lyndon Johnson.

Wow, that's weird to say without a B.

[silver.]

Whew. I knew that joke would be dated, but damn.

Flop.

[Bronwyn]

I got it.

Still have my LJ somewhere, but migrated to Dream... something.

[Robespierre Josef Stalin Pot]

Fatalities at Florida School Shooting

Meh. Nothing can be done. Why do the Lieberal media keep reporting on these facts of life?

[Juice]

The school was already a gun free zone. What do you suggest be done?

[Otis B. Driftwood]

He suggests that "LITERALLEE HITLUR" confiscate all of TEH GUNZ!1!!1

[Robespierre Josef Stalin Pot]

I blame the teachers. They don't carry concealed assault weapons on their person and don't have any training on whether the kid that wrote a story about his Fallout video game is raising his hand or a sawed off shotgun. Who knows, right?

[jmlandry]

It seems like a rarity that a mass shooter would be in custody. Do they not usually kill themselves or the cops take care of it? Strange days.

[mferguson]

It will be found that the shooter was on some psych meds or seeing a psych, but the media will not mention this or make nothing of it and continue to blame guns and protect their Big Pharma ad dollars.

[TangoDelta]

Worst case for the media is if he turns out to be a DACA kid. That would make for some rather interesting mental gymnastics for the next few days.

[JFree]

It probably won't be found - because pharma companies are vigorous in preventing that sort of inquiry.

But I agree with you and have no doubt at all that a)he was on psychotropics and b)he had the CYP450 variation that made the stuff he was on toxic and deadly.

[JFree]

The list of those mass slaughters who were certainly (or almost certainly in a couple cases) on psychotropics is stunningly long:
Kip Kinkel, Columbine, Red Lake, Wahluke, West Paducah, Westside, Conyers, Breenwood, VaTech, Bishop Neuman, El Cajon, LA Jewish, Aurora, Discovery, NIU, Newtown, Loughner

- and the rarer (because they don't tend to drug themselves like we do) foreign examples - Kauhajoki, Jokela, Raumanmeri, Ecole Polytechnique, La Loche, Monterrey, Winnenden, Germanwings

Not to mention a shit-ton of family slaughters and suicides.

[IceTrey]

I can't believe he let himself be captured alive. Have fun in prison for the rest of your life asshole.

[silver.]

It certainly is rare. It's possible he saw how people don't actually die instantly when shot and lost his nerve about it being a painless way to go. I expect that to be a decision he regrets.

On the other hand, now we might hear more about his trial and further reinforce the misguided notion that this is a thing you can do to get lots of attention.

It's better to be reviled than unknown.

[loveconstitution1789]

Florida is a death penalty state and he is supposedly 19 years old.

They'll put him to permanent nappy-nap.

[Deflator Mouse]

Even if he gets the DP he still would technically be in prison for the rest of his life. Too bad they don't have firing squad in FL, that would be ironic.

[ThomasD]

In about 25 years.

Which, if he is the shooter, is absurd.

If reports are true then he's the epitome of everything death penalty opponents cannot admit - that some people well and truly do revoke their ultimate right.

[Inigo Montoya]

"If reports are true then he's the epitome of everything death penalty opponents cannot admit - that some people well and truly do revoke their ultimate right."

Oh, many of us can admit it readily enough. Sure there are people that are total waste of air and very much deserve to stop living.

The issue is whether we trust the government enough to give them that power. Can we trust police, prosecutors, and the justice system to always tell the truth? To always do what's right? To never abuse their power or take the easy way out to close a case -- especially in very high-profile cases like murder? I know that I for one don't. I don't trust them as far as I can throw 'em.

[Verbum Vincet]

Very well said. The state can't even deliver justice on piddling misdemeanors! With felony cases, they're generally seeking a "win," not justice. And when they do kill people, it's often the innocent ones or the easy marks. As a result of this latest mass murder spree, the same old solution of "a little more surveillance and government; a little less freedom" will be the predictable result. It won't help. On the contrary, it'll make things worse. But "safety" and "the children" are our prime motivations now.

I also find it interesting that the cops can take a spree killer into custody without a scratch, but they can't evict an 83 year-old handicapped veteran whose landlord wanted him gone because he needed service dogs, without pumping him full of lead. If there's one thing we Americans are good at, it's killing. Unfortunately, more killing won't solve anything. Perhaps the casting aside of all-consuming fear, in combination with a renewed appreciation for freedom would be a good start!

[Juice]

He probably wasn't suicidal, just murderous.

[XM]

If a student was forbidden from entering campus with a backpack, what's being implied couldn't be more obvious. Why wasn't the cops alerted? No one at the school could see his Instagram images of guns and knives? I doubt it was private, since the internet already preserved it.

I don't have the stats on my hands, but I wouldn't be surprised if there were way less shootings in the Jim Crow era, which was one of the lowest points in American history. Empires fall when they rot from within, and as soon as family and basic morality begins to disintegrate, America will start to decline.

I guarantee you Cruz heard hours of lectures on equal pay, tolerance and diversity in school. Hours upon hours. Where were his parents to teach him about basic humanity? Thou shall not murder? Treat people with respect?

[gormadoc]

The most likely cause is that he had an untreated mental condition or was between meds. Morals don't matter as much when you're going through a psychotic episode.

The Jim Crow era had mass lynchings, perpetrated by dozens or hundreds of people at a time. I think that shows a more debased morality than a few lunatics who go postal every month.

[XM]

It was a dangerous time for certain groups in America, but that's sort of my point. Random racist white kids didn't go to a segregated schools and blow away 20-30 kids every year. And back then high schools had rifle teams. Or so I hear.

[JFree]

Actually it's almost certainly NOT because of an 'untreated medical condition'. That is always the media and pharma and psychiatry implication when they talk about 'mental illness' as a cause. But that is just diversionary spin to protect their revenues/business.

It is much more likely to be a medical condition that a)was being treated with psychotropics on b)a patient who wasn't genotyped before prescription who c)had the CYP450 variation that renders those drugs toxic as hell and thus d)develop akathisia (NOT a psychotic episode - its neurological) which is highly associated with suicide/homicide (and is also a major reason why - when verbalized - patients stop taking their meds because of bad reactions).

It is no coincidence imo that Parkland is a very high income town (median household income - $270,000) like many of the other 'golly we can't believe that would happen here' places where these shootings tend to occur. Precisely the sorts of places where parents send their kids to psychiatrists for everything and think theres always a pill to solve every kid's embarrassing problems.

[XM]

Oh, and he bragged about knowing the "school layout".

Someone really dropped the ball. Bigly. The principal should have inspected the kid's social media world the second he threatened anyone at school.

[Bill Goode]

The majority of these mass shootings happen in schools because public schools act as distribution centers for psychotropic drugs - Ritalin, Prozac, Xanax, Zoloft, etc. Psychotropic drugs have the side effects of suicide and violence - READ THE LABELS ON THE BOTTLES.

One of the worst of the psychotropic drugs is LSD, which Reason Magazine has shamefully promoted at least twice in its videos. It is shameful that Reason Magazine would promote such a cause of violence, but it has.

Reason Magazine promotes LSD while hiding behind its presumed mantra of libertarianism and the right of anyone to consume whatever they like into one's own body. However, school children look to their elders, doctors AND MEDIA SUCH AS REASON MAGAZINE for guidance in what to consume.

So children get these drugs at their schools and go out and shoot someone or a group of people and may well commit suicide in the mix.

[gormadoc]

Shame and guilt contribute to depression, the leading cause of suicide. Why do you shame and guilt us so?

On a serious note, I don't think Reason promotes LSD in any concerted effort. If you mean that they portray it in a comedic and uncritical light, sure. But the libertarian position is a firm "nobody has the right to dictate another rational adult's drug use."

Caffeine and tobacco are the most wildly used psychotropic drugs, far outweighing LSD. What effect do they have on murder and suicide rates?

On top of this, these kids always have mental issues. Letting them go untreated leads to situations like this. Over-treating them does the same. They must be treated to some degree, though.

[silver.]

"One of the worst of the psychotropic drugs is LSD..."

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there, and ask that you find me a study on the detrimental effects of LSD (other than anecdotal burnouts). I think reason "advocates" for LSD is because it's even safer than marijuana and shouldn't be illegal.

Yes, giving psychotropics to teens whose brains are still rapidly changing is not the wisest idea, but if your kids are failing in school and/or not thinking about their futures and/or trying to kill themselves, there's a high chance that they're a future Democrat. Also you'd be losing your shit and wanting to do anything to change that. How parents remedy that is between them, their kids, and their medical professionals.

I went all the way through public school with exactly two teachers recommending that I take stimulant medication for my various shitty bratty behaviors. A simple, "no," from my parent was sufficient to end the discussion both times. Super simple stuff.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

LSD is awesome. I speak from experience.

[silver.]

I said no anecdotal burnout stories!

But yes. Of course I've never done it, but the data says I would.

[SIV]

Unbelievably awesome, better than stropharia cubensis, even...

It's too bad I obey all laws and have never tried them, especially stacking them together...

[barfman2018]

One of the worst of the psychotropic drugs is LSD

You are a bona fide idiot.

*barf*

[Trigger Warning]

You are sorta correct about the side effects of a couple of those meds, but not for the reasons you think. And brother, if you think the kids these days are reading this rag, you're the craziest motherfucker in the room. High school kids give zero shits about libertarianism, and today's mass murderer is probably so fucking off his tits he thinks his fucking dog recites the Quran.

[Michael Ejercito]

All along, I thought gang violence was the result of poverty and broken families.

Now it is prozac?

[JFree]

Psychotropic drugs have the side effects of suicide and violence

Those are NOT side-effects. They are medical malpractice and gross pharma negligence. The akathisia that causes those is a direct consequence of psychiatrists and pharma having zero interest in genotyping patients (for a CYP450 genetic variation) before they prescribe meds that are toxic to that patient. Because that would greatly reduce the market for those drugs.

If they prescribed peanuts to battle depression - and x% of patients went into allergic shock and died - that would not be a valid excuse to stick that reaction as a 'side effect' on the bottle.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

I guess the shooter has been identified as White Hispanic.

[Trigger Warning]

Whispanic? Latinwhite? Blanca?

[Wearenotperfect]

Get the fuck outta here! He's an American citizen.

[Inigo Montoya]

With a name that translates as "Jesus of the Cross," I'm surprised he hasn't also been identified as a religious nut.

[Otis B. Driftwood]

Tony must be elated.

[loveconstitution1789]

He's already blaming the NRA.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Tony can be obnoxious, but I don't think he's cheering on a mass shooting.

[Jerryskids]

I'm going to blame the fragile snowflake culture - teach kids that they're perpetual helpless victims of every tiny thing in the world and that they're powerless to fight it and sooner or later the kids are going to explode in rage against the world that's holding them down. Or some such, I haven't really worked out all the details of my blame game in the twelve seconds it took me to think up this angle. But it's somebody's fault, goddammit, and I'm going to find some way to blame somebody I don't like.

[silver.]

You know, you might be on to something there. These kids are already ostracized by their peers, and SJWs are going to bat for pretty much every marginalized group except unpopular, creepy high school boys. (N.B. Eric Harris was quite popular at Columbine HS - classic clinical psychopath, very charming). With the absolutist thinking of adolescence, they're surely going to be experiencing the hell of high school forever, and even the "sensitive" people don't care.

Some autistic people on 4chan and reddit banded together behind Trump. They found acceptance and camaraderie. I know of at least two shootings (neither major) where the suspect (likely) posted a warning on 4chan and the community egged it on. Given the fully anonymous nature of 4chan (and the internet), one can understand it. It also happens with suicides, sometimes. "Oh I'm going to kill myself." "Do it, fag!" And suddenly they're ostracized from one of the last communities available to them (from their perspective).

[Trigger Warning]

Jerryskids, there is grant money to be had! With a little spit and polish, you could land a couple mil for a rrsearch project on that very topic.

[CharlesWT]

"..., home to about 3,200 students."

Mega schools make mega targets.

[loveconstitution1789]

Running targets too. In gun free zones, you cannot defend yourself or the students. All you can do is run.

[esteve7]

How about we all wait until we get more information before we jump to conclusions. Give it a day or two for more to come out, because often the early reports are wrong or misleading

[loveconstitution1789]

Gun grabbers and their gun free zones just make these shootings worse.

[Palin's Buttplug]

The NRA will be using this tragedy to fund raise.

[loveconstitution1789]

Did you see the gun grabbers in Florida raising the flaccid look of Florida into a raging hard-on for gun control?

This should easily get 2 weeks of gun control talk from gun grabbers who want to violate the 2nd Amendment by regulating guns.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Both parties want to regulate guns, you dolt. Its just a matter of degree. Go ask your patron saint of conservatism - Reagan.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

You know who actually will use this to fund raise?

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

Disgusting, isn't it? Hopefully one day all libertarians will be of the left-libertarian variety like you and me. The kind who have nothing but contempt for bitter clingers and their misreading of the Constitution.

[Palin's Buttplug]

What is disgusting is how both sides will politicize this tragedy - the NRA in particular. They are the most powerful lobby in the country and more money is more power.

(for others - not the parody account I replied to)

[Fooseven]

Nra lobbying is not even in the top 10...so how is it they "control" so many politicians? When they're in power, why don't the sincerely dedicated democrats drive through more federal gun laws as their top priority?

Just come out and admit that most Americans don't actually want additional gun laws, and politicians know it and behave accordingly, using it as a promise/scare issue to raise funds. That's the rational explanation here.

[Palin's Buttplug]

https://goo.gl/2Eun3J

[68W58]

Oh, well, if you can't trust listosaur, I mean, who can you trust?

[NotAnotherSkippy]

https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/index.php

Hahaha. "Most Powerful" Not even in the top 10 of all time contributors and they only rate 9th in outside spending for 2015-16. Don't you ever get tired of reality kicking you in the teeth?

[Sevo]

No, turd comes here to repeat bullshit he's been called on many times.
Why, it's almost like he's a lying piece of shit!

[TangoDelta]

They have lots of power but it's less about money than an active and energized network of people who are more than happy to do a lot of arm twisting for free. Dollar wise, Google spends far more than the NRA but it's hard to get lots individuals in every state to show up and give statements for or against any particular legislation on their own time.

Now I'm sure Google doesn't have quite all that much to say at the local town hall or often at the state level and as a result they don't really need a broad and deep network of volunteers. As a result while they have a lot more money but probably not anywhere near as much political pull. Pols know they can only collect Googles large contributions if they keep their job and it's the breadth and depth of the NRA's network that scares them.

[esteve7]

When you bitch about the NRA, you are just bitching that voters disagree with you. The "NRA" doesn't have any power, but millions of voters that believe the same things do.

[GamerFromJump]

The only ones "misreading" are the ones who think "the people" in every other amendment where it's used means the people, but in the second, it means the government.

The ones who equate the people with the government have names like "Democratic People's Republic of Korea" & "People's Republic of China".

[jmlandry]

Fuck the NRA, why can they not stick to the single issue. It's always about sending money to police or training more police dogs Etc...

[Moridin]

"Turn 'em in America."

-Dem Senator

[Trigger Warning]

Jesus fucking Christ.

[Tionico]

He is not.........

[Tionico]

Three thousand two hundred captive targets, and NO security? What airliner can carry that many passengers?

Since it was a Certified Defenseless Victim Zone by federal law, NO ONE was there to shoot back until the first coppers showed up. That was seventeen victims later. THIS is completely avoidable, though not in any politically correct way. Look into what is happening in Ohio in regards school security. It is working. And costs the taxpayers absolutely nothing. Other states, one of them being Colorado, are looking into adopting this model for their own schools.

Another serious issue contributing to this sort of massacre..... WHY are high schools such monstrous institutions? Whatever happened to the concept of smaller, more involved, manageable high schools? Mone was about 500 students, and while I got able to recognise most of them as being "regulars", no way did I know very many outside of my own classroom. I had 125 students total in my graduating class. With six or seven times as many students than at my high school NO ONE can know more than a few. Had a troublemaker like this guy been booted, we would ALL know him, and ALL be ready and willing to confront him and with help simultaneously deal with his unwanted unlawful presence.

[silver.]

I'm pretty sure that after the school siege of Beslan by Chechen terrorists, teachers were armed with rifles.

As I get older and more crotchety I'll start suggesting that we strap our (highly responsible) public school teachers. I certainly think (highly responsible) college professors and their students could be trusted with it. It's a ridiculous idea .. but, other than lacking reliable teachers, why is it so ridiculous? Shit, you could probably just tell the public that certain teachers may or may not be armed. Private universities with relaxed gun rules are probably the safest ones in the nation.

The real issue is just that they'd go to a different gun-free area and shoot unarmed people.. 🙁

[ThomasD]

No way a public high school of that size did not have a full time 'resource' officer.

Back in the 80's my HS, of similar size on the other FL coast, had one.

[Penny_Worth]

I think the biggest problem, Constitutionally, is that even teachers who do not have a CCL relinquish their 2nd Amendment rights when they walk into a public school. Let the adults prepare for defending the students if need be. Frankly, the idea of shrinking schools to a more manageable size is a better idea than gun control measures, but getting the government out of the education business altogether might be even better, unless we can teach them some libertarian basics from this site: http://www.zeroagressionproject.com

[Michael Ejercito]

What abput the military? Why can't thry provide defense. Is that not what they are for?

[Intelligent Mr Toad]

I heard President Trump spent Saturday on the golf course, and shot 73! Not bad, Mr. President, but Paddock's score was higher.

[Sevo]

Intelligent Mr Toad|2.14.18 @ 8:09PM|#
"I heard President Trump spent Saturday on the golf course, and shot 73! Not bad, Mr. President, but Paddock's score was higher."

I read a fucking idiot claiming to be 'intelligent' posted something about a golf score here.
Would that be you, fucking idiot?
Why I guess it would be!
Fucking idiot.

[Robespierre Josef Stalin Pot]

Eh... increasing numbers of dead kids at schools is the price we pay for the liberty of gun nuts to acquire the weapons they are going to use in a shootout with the government. Who would even think of regulating that right besides, of course, Hitler.

[Wearenotperfect]

Be careful how you word your statements. Gun owners are not the ones shooting people, gun nuts are. Get your shit together!

[GamerFromJump]

It's not even "gun nuts"; it's fame-seeking shits with guns.

[Michael Ejercito]

I thought it is the price we paid for the War on Drugs??, as well as capitalism.

[Deflator Mouse]

Accurate username.

[Otis B. Driftwood]

The same guy who said that "the GUBMINT SHUD HAV ALL TEH GUNZ" is the same dumb cunt who said "DRUMF IS HITLUR!"

Seriously, none of you dumb fucks see the problem with allowing "LITERULLEE HITLUR" to confiscate all of "TEH GUNZ"?

[Sevo]

"Who would even think of regulating that right besides, of course, Hitler."

And fucking imbeciles like you.

[Juice]

I just learned that Trump is president of Russia.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelli.....trump.html

[Hank Phillips]

Does "sensitive content" censorship mean the thing implicated a Saracen berserker exercising 1st Amendment Sharia Law rights or simply that some prankster called a SWAT team and those First Responders? proceeded to shoot everything that moved?

[Deflator Mouse]

Nicolas de Jesus Cruz, 19, has been taken into police custody. The Broward Sheriff's Office is reporting 17 dead, and is still working to clear all the buildings at the massive school, home to about 3,200 students.

Lucky for him, Broward is a sanctuary city.

[SunkCost]

I don't know where he was born, but it sounds like he was a nativist islamophobe Trumper. Like yourself.

"He always wore like really patriotic shirts that seemed really extreme, like hating on the Islamic religion. For example, he would say things such as like, he would degrade Islamic people as terrorists and bombers. I've seen him wear a Trump hat."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/ nick-cruz-parkland-florida-shooting-stoneman -douglas-high-school

[Migrant Log Chipper]

Fuck off troll.

[Sevo]

SunkCost|2.14.18 @ 9:32PM|#
"I don't know where he was born, but it sounds like he was a nativist islamophobe Trumper. Like yourself."

I don't know, either, but he sounds like some pathetic lefty loser like yourself.

[SunkCost]

He's a white nationalist:

http://www.bostonglobe.com/new.....dMore_Pos1

[jmlandry]

A public service announcement:. The NRA is not a single issue organization. They are constantly supporting the militarization of police, training police dogs etc...

When 50% of what our police do is execute an unconstitutional war on drugs, supporting them is highly discouraged.

Watch out for the wolf in sheep's clothing.

[silver.]

The NRA is not exactly 2A-friendly. I'd encourage everyone to check out your state/local 2A groups. Mine is absolutely phenomenal. Great group of men and women who are the least "gun nutty" people in existence, and they get a lot of work done. We have a highly organized lobby day every year; the anti-2A crowd swells after shootings, but they're still outnumbered and lobby like petulant children. It's embarrassingly obvious which group is more mature.

It was also very interesting to see the police called every meeting held at a local library for "shooters!!!!!!!"

[jmlandry]

The NRA unfriendly to the 2A? Right.....

Next thing you will say is the the Tea Party is ran by Newt and Glenn Beck- say it isn't so.

[Ned Netterville]

Violence begets violence. We are violent people. The rule of law is a violent construct. Our nation's foreign policies are predicated on military violence. Our laws are violently enforced. Our government's revenue is predicated on the forcible, violent collection of taxes. Violence permeates our society particularly in and through our violent government. So when inexplicable violence erupts among our children, who is surprised? I know. Blame it on lax gun laws. Blame it on anything that doesn't force us to look at ourselves to see if our own violence precipitates the violence we deplore. Violence always begets more of its kind.

[SunkCost]

You're blaming school shootings on high taxes?

[Robespierre Josef Stalin Pot]

Beat me to it.

[Sevo]

"Violence begets violence. We are violent people. The rule of law is a violent construct. Our nation's foreign policies are predicated on military violence. Our laws are violently enforced. Our government's revenue is predicated on the forcible, violent collection of taxes. Violence permeates our society particularly in and through our violent government. So when inexplicable violence erupts among our children, who is surprised? I know. Blame it on lax gun laws. Blame it on anything that doesn't force us to look at ourselves to see if our own violence precipitates the violence we deplore. Violence always begets more of its kind."

Uh, yeah man! That's uh deep!
WIH are you blabbering on about?

[Cyto]

So I got caught up in the reaction to all of this.

I'm volunteering with my son's school robotics club, and we got locked down for the afternoon because the school system in Broward County locked down all of their campuses in response. So we had to hunker down in place.... no roaming the halls and definitely no leaving. They locked all the doors and had a patrol car guarding the front door.

We are still getting reports of various connections we have to the victims... this guy's girlfriend hasn't reported in to her parents as of 9pm, that girl from church has two cousins that might be among the victims....

It is a weird and surreal experience. I spent my evening at church with a bunch of 5th graders who's reactions ranged from not giving a crap to being scared that someone was going to come shoot them. It was reasonably easy to help them talk it out and realize that they are safe and the chances of anything like this happening to them is really small.... but it was weird seeing them like that.

[Cyto]

So I got caught up in the reaction to all of this.

I'm volunteering with my son's school robotics club, and we got locked down for the afternoon because the school system in Broward County locked down all of their campuses in response. So we had to hunker down in place.... no roaming the halls and definitely no leaving. They locked all the doors and had a patrol car guarding the front door.

We are still getting reports of various connections we have to the victims... this guy's girlfriend hasn't reported in to her parents as of 9pm, that girl from church has two cousins that might be among the victims....

It is a weird and surreal experience. I spent my evening at church with a bunch of 5th graders who's reactions ranged from not giving a crap to being scared that someone was going to come shoot them. It was reasonably easy to help them talk it out and realize that they are safe and the chances of anything like this happening to them is really small.... but it was weird seeing them like that.

[silver.]

This is interesting. Thanks for sharing. Man.. I can't imagine how the families of the kids who can't be reached are feeling.

[Sevo]

"It was reasonably easy to help them talk it out and realize that they are safe and the chances of anything like this happening to them is really small."
Glad you had some kids willing to listen and glad you did so. Props!

[Cyto]

BTW-

Parkland is the nice area. Wealthy-ish with a focus on equestrian stuff... lots of rich-guy houses that have stables and horses. Broward County is an area where most houses are on tiny lots - my neighborhood lists lot sizes in square feet, not acres - except for Parkland, where half-acre and acre lots are reasonably common.

So not the kind of place where you'd expect to see people shooting at each other, but strangely enough kinda exactly the kind of area that seems to attract nut-jobs who shoot up schools.

[ThomasD]

Alienation knows no boundaries.

Add in some instability and a strong sense of entitlement and it's a miracle more kids don't go off the deep end.

[John C. Randolph]

I guess it's time for another round of people who should know better trotting out their fantasies of total disarmament, who will then screech at me for mentioning Anders Brevik.

-jcr

[Nullus Maximus]

There would be no shootings at government schools if there were no government schools. There are better ways to educate children than sending them to weekday prisons.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Awful. Sad.

RIP.

[DajjaI]

Another relative, who spoke on condition of anonymity over the sensitive matter, said Nikolas had been diagnosed with autism.

The problem is not autism but the DIAGNOSIS. I know this is such a difficult concept to grasp. THERE WAS NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS CHILD. He was ruined by 'treatment'.

Lynda had sought counseling for Nikolas at a young age: "She did her best getting him any help he needed."

We are creating a generation of ticking time bombs.

[mad.casual]

The problem is not autism but the DIAGNOSIS.

I wouldn't, for a single second, refute this statement if you used the term OVER-diagnosis. I would even go further to say that it's not just limited to autism by any means.

[Robespierre Josef Stalin Pot]

Awful. Sad. RIP. There's nothing we can do.

[polesmith]

I am so impress with your blog post. https://www.promoocodes.com/ Here you can find fashionale clothing and much more products at discount price. Thank you

[LEAPGuyAZ]

Guns don't kill people, people kill people. If not with a gun they will use explosives. If no explosives a gallon of gas is less than a burger at McDonald's. In the police academy they showed us a video of how a gallon of gas can destroy an entire house in a huge explosion. It's not the gun, it's the mentally disturbed person behind it.

Call your local mental health services... They'll get you right in to see someone, in 30 days.... We need more money for mental health services.

[Michael Ejercito]

Gangbangers will stop shooting each other if only they had access to shrinks?