FISA

“Selective Surveillance Outrage” and “Situational Libertarianism” Isn’t Good Enough, Congress!

The Nunes memo deserved to be released, and so does the forthcoming Schiff one. But come on, D.C., get serious about abuse of FISA and other powers!

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Over at The Washington Examiner, Jim Antle has a sharp column up about the disturbing "situational libertarianism" and "selective surveillance outrage" that grips Congress every so often like Pazuzu took over Regan MacNeil in The Exorcist.

When it comes to "the memo" released by Rep. Devin Nunes (R-Calif.) that accuses the FBI and Department of Justice (DOJ) of relying on partisan research to get a warrant to surveil a Trump campaign adviser, there's plenty of head-twisting, bed-bumping, and vomit-spewing, that's for sure.

Somehow, Republicans who typically worship at the cult of the surveillance state are now accusing the FBI of being nothing more than an arm of Hillary Clinton's election effort. And Democrats who screamed bloody murder about Bush-era overreaching are now shocked as hell that anyone anywhere would ever question the sagacity of the national surveillance state. As Antle writes:

Situational libertarianism has been the norm in Washington for years. Politicians are most likely to complain about prosecutors and federal agents run amuck when a member of their own party, especially the president, is the target.

Law and order versus civil liberties debates often play out similarly. Some politicians who protest police brutality, especially when racially motivated, are among the least likely to worry about whether a low-level Trump adviser was surveilled based on information sourced to a rival campaign.

Others who argue such concerns are tantamount to calling the police racist have no problem believing law enforcement would abuse its power when the alleged victim is President Trump or someone in his orbit.

That's exactly right, completely appalling, and totally transparent. The partisan hackery of most members of Congress helps to explain why just one-third of Americans have confidence in the FBI and CIA—and why even fewer of us have any faith in Congress.

Newscom

Antle points to libertarian-leaning folks such as Rep. Justin Amash (R-Mich.), who pointed out that many of his own party colleagues seem to only worry about warrantless searches when it might hurt other Republicans. In fact, Nunes once said that Amash was "al Qaeda's best friend in Congress" because he insisted on securing warrants before spying on suspected terrorists. Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.) tweeted, "My question: who made the decision to withhold evidence of FISA abuse until after Congress voted to renew FISA program?"

And then there's Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), whose consistency is as uplifting as it is rare.

"If you look at my positions, I had the same position under President Obama that I have under President Trump, and that is that the power to listen to people's conservation — your private conversation — are private and nobody else's business, and the government should not reveal that," Paul told "The View" Friday.

Paul added that the victims of surveillance abuse were less likely to be powerful people in a presidential campaign but "minorities of opinion" and "minorities of color."

Sadly, folks such as Paul, Massie, and Amash are basically a minority of three. We need more of them, and quickly, if we want to have a government that we can believe in.

Read full Antle column here.

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113 responses to ““Selective Surveillance Outrage” and “Situational Libertarianism” Isn’t Good Enough, Congress!

  1. Trump and his cult — mostly conspiracy nuts — are now confusing all their wacky conspiracies.

    Trump originally said said he fired Comey for bias …
    AGAINST HILLARY!! (OMFG)

    Trump says he fired Comey on Rosenstein’s recommendation. But ….(hahahaha) … Rosenstein’s lettter said to fire Comey for …going public on the Hillary investigation, so soon before the election. … where she lost the Electoral College by a mere 39,000 switched votes.

    So, Trump either fired Comey for the Russian investigation — AS HE SAID — obstruction.
    Or he fired Comey for anti-Hillary bias!

    Did Rosenstein set Trump up? (not that difficult) Trump is a walking corpse either way.
    This will be more fun than watching Nixon collapse.

    1. Cohen was colluding with the Russians during the Clinton email smear campaign. He briefly remembered his patriotism and didn’t recommend any charges, only to back slide and betray our country with his Russia-approved memo that sabotaged our democracy.

      And then he martyred himself on behalf of Russia by getting fired by DrumpfKittens, interfering with the investigation into his treason.

      1. It can be SO hard for Trumpsters to keep all their conspiraces straight!

        1. They are disconnnexcted from reality, due to the racism rotting their brain.

          1. I’m making over $7k a month working part time. I kept hearing other people tell me how much money they can make online so I decided to look into it. Well, it was all true and has totally changed my life.

            This is what I do… http://www.onlinecareer10.com

          2. > due to the racism rotting in their brain

            Yawn. Racism charges – the last refuge of people who are devoid of original thoughts or substantive arguments.

            1. After the mother fucker’s shameful defense of white nationalists in Charlottesvile take your bullshit back to the moral sewer you reside in.

              Now Trump’s totally psychopathic lie about Charlottesvile, sucking up to white supremacists. Bad enough that he said both sides were to blame. But he also went bat-shit crazy, saying the counter-protesters charged the nazis, swinging clubs. He is one sick fuck. UNDENIABLE proof

              The initial assault, Charlottesvile – nazis and white supremacist attacking with clubs
              The initial assault, Charlottesvile – nazis and white supremacist run amok.
              “Alt-Left” standing peacefully, no visible clubs or bats.
              Alt-Right Facsists/Racists crash into them en masse, swinging clubs.
              Fascists are carrying the same shields as cops in riot gear. The slimebags CAME for violence

              Shame on Trump and the party who defends him

        2. Michael Hihn|2.4.18 @ 6:03PM|#
          “It can be SO hard for Trumpsters to keep all their conspiraces straight!”

          And SO easy for Mike to lie.
          Fuck off, Mike.

          1. And SO easy for Mike to lie.
            Fuck off, Mike

            The link PROVES Sevo is full of shit, for anyone on earth who didn’t already know But he spewed his ever-raging hatred, this time for the cause of his Exalted Leader. The only way he can feel manly.

          2. The Nunes memo INCLUDES classified information. It could only be released if the President declassifies it, as he has. That means the American people are denied access to any and all denials, including our own intelligence agencies … so we have a LITERAL police state …. unless … the President ALSO declassifies any claims and/or evidence that PROVES his own party committed fraud. (duh)

            Would a President who commits an average of five lies and/or misinformation, every single day for over a year, declassify his own demise (snort)

            Dumbfuck Nunes even included dates that destroy his assault!

            National Review — no lefty — tears it to shreds, says it proves the exact opposite of what they claim, and CONFIRMS the original NY Times scoop, The President has egg splattered all over his puss. Again. As does his obedient army of trolls

            he Nunes Memo Is A Dud Vox has the most detailed descripton of all the errors and faults being reported on both the left and the right — but totally unknown within the far-right’s Deep Echo Chamber

            1. A dead link to a Reason article allegedly summarizing a NR article is weak, weak gruel.

              Only thing weaker is a link to Vox.

              1. Thanks for authorizing me to jam it down your throat,personally (smirk)

                National Review — no lefty — tears it to shreds, says it proves the exact opposite of what they claim, and CONFIRMS the original NY Times scoop, The President has egg splattered all over his puss. Again. As does his obedient army of trolls

                ****Trump originally said said he fired Comey for bias … AGAINST HILLARY!! (OMFG)

                Trump says he fired Comey on Rosenstein’s recommendation. But ….(hahahaha) … Rosenstein’s lettter said to fire Comey for …going public on the Hillary investigation, so soon before the election. … where she lost the Electoral College by a mere 39,000 switched votes.

                So, Trump either fired Comey for the Russian investigation — AS HE SAID — obstruction.
                Or he fired Comey for anti-Hillary bias!

                Did Rosenstein set Trump up? (not that difficult) Trump is a walking corpse either way.
                As Trumps trolling goobers kiss his ass.

              2. sneer at the fool (lol)

                Republicans bail on Trump … vote UNANIMOUSLY to release the Democrat rebuttal. Final straw may have been when even TREY GOWDY announced as one one six Republicans would vote with Democrats for full release .

                (This action also HUMILIATES Sevo, Last of he Shitloards, Sammi, damikesc Elias Fakabrain, and other trolling puppets .)

                Left – Right = Zero

                (snort)

  2. We are ow a police/surveillance state. There is no such thing as privacy. Our police departments are now paramilitary organizations more suited for cleaning out neighborhoods in Fallujah than protecting citizens. That is only going to get worse.

    1. Neither major parties want to reverse direction, nor for that matter do most civilians despite what they may say in the polls. All the hand wringing amongst both sides of the aisles is nothing more than typical political pandering. It has nothing to do with protecting rights and everything to do with demo nuzzling enemies.

      1. Demonizing. Would be easier to spell check if the submit button didn’t cover up my comment once it reaches a certain length on my android.

        1. Demo nuzzling seemed okay.

  3. “”Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.), whose consistency is as uplifting as it is rare.””

    if only Reason itself were as consistent in its own support

    1. Rand is now a shameless suckup to Trump.

    2. LOL welsh is a cuck

      1. On the evidence, the cuck is you

        The Nunes memo INCLUDES classified information. It could only be released if the President declassifies it, as he has. That means the American people are denied access to any and all denials, including our own intelligence agencies … so we have a LITERAL police state …. unless … the President ALSO declassifies any claims and/or evidence that PROVES his own party committed fraud. (duh)

        Would a President who commits an average of five lies and/or misinformation, every single day for over a year, declassify his own demise (snort)

        Dumbfuck Nunes even included dates that destroy his assault!

        National Review — no lefty — tears it to shreds, says it proves the exact opposite of what they claim, and CONFIRMS the original NY Times scoop, The President has egg splattered all over his puss. Again. As does his obedient army of trolls

        he Nunes Memo Is A Dud Vox has the most detailed descripton of all the errors and faults being reported on both the left and the right — but totally unknown within the far-right’s Deep Echo Chamber

        Anything else, cuck?

  4. Democrats didn’t call out Bush for having intelligence services, they called him out for abusing them and torturing people and stuff. Like, they used judgment to assess a specific situation?

    What would be contrasting behavior would be making mouth noises about undermining the entire justice department solely because it’s investigating the president.

    If this flimsy effort by Republicans to invent bullshit conspiracy theories is all they got, then maybe they are actually full of shit and the FBI isn’t made up of Democratic party operatives.

    1. Republicans are rejecting the very existence of the FBI!

      Treason!

      1. Is the FBI in the employ of the Clinton family? Did things go too far under Bush? Are Democrats sometimes hypocrites? Was J. Edgar Hoover not a bad person? Did Comey swing the election to Trump while simultaneously working on behalf of Clinton’s election campaign? What is the nature of dark energy? Do dogs go to heaven? Can I interest you in that shiny object over there?

        1. How much influence would Comey and the Russians have needed to swing a mere 39,000 votes — which is all that Hillary lost the Electoral vote by (in three states combined)?

          1. I think about this and the 2000 election, and there’s something perversely comforting about the fact that presidents who get elected under very dubious circumstances tend to be very crap presidents.

            1. The crap is yours. Even the NY Times says so. A contingent of journalists went down to Florida and did the recount.

              New York Times

              “EXAMINING THE VOTE: THE OVERVIEW; Study of Disputed Florida Ballots Finds Justices Did Not Cast the Deciding Vote”

              A comprehensive review of the uncounted Florida ballots from last year’s presidential election reveals that George W. Bush would have won even if the United States Supreme Court had allowed the statewide manual recount of the votes that the Florida Supreme Court had ordered to go forward.

              Contrary to what many partisans of former Vice President Al Gore have charged, the United States Supreme Court did not award an election to Mr. Bush that otherwise would have been won by Mr. Gore. A close examination of the ballots found that Mr. Bush would have retained a slender margin over Mr. Gore if the Florida court’s order to recount more than 43,000 ballots had not been reversed by the United States Supreme Court.

              You like ridicule libertarians for swallowing tribal bullshit (and you’re often correct), but ….. Pot Kettle Black.

              Anything else?.

              1. All I said is “dubious.” Perhaps I should have been more specific and said “lost the popular vote, meaning wasn’t the choice of the people their governments shat on for many years.”

                1. when the popular vote contradicts the constitution, then the constitution is supposed to lose, which exactly the way people want their constitutions to work in democracy.

                  This is known.

                  1. Bingo. The only battle Jefferson lost — and so did we. He as in France during the Constitutional Convention, sent a lengthy letter to Madison, protesting their desire to craft a perpetual constitution. The Articles had lasted 18 years,

                    He defended Consent of the Governed, saying each generation should draft its own Constitution, else we be governed by the Consent of the Dead … tyranny.

                    And he’s right. Conservatives, in all their self-righteous hypocrisy, speak so piously of “what the founders intended.” Who gives a shit?

                    Liberals speak, just as piously, of a “Living Constitution” that they get to invent.

                    In the workplace, which goals are most likely to have firm commitment by the employees … goals handed down from on high … or goals NEGOTIATED AND AGREED by those employees.

                    The latter is called Entrepreneurial Management, as opposed to bureaucratic management. and I spent nearly 40 years as a consultant/coach, helping entrepreneurs install such a system. What else would a libertarian teach? Profits skyrocketed in every place, often doubling … with profits shared by employees.

                    What works best for a small-business would work best for a nation.

                    Obedience vs consent. Which of those two speaks to individual liberty? duh.

                  2. Bingo. The only battle Jefferson lost — and so did we. He as in France during the Constitutional Convention, sent a lengthy letter to Madison, protesting their desire to craft a perpetual constitution. The Articles had lasted 18 years,

                    He defended Consent of the Governed, saying each generation should draft its own Constitution, else we be governed by the Consent of the Dead … tyranny.

                    And he’s right. Conservatives, in all their self-righteous hypocrisy, speak so piously of “what the founders intended.” Who gives a shit?

                    Liberals speak, just as piously, of a “Living Constitution” that they get to invent.

                    In the workplace, which goals are most likely to have firm commitment by the employees … goals handed down from on high … or goals NEGOTIATED AND AGREED by those employees.

                    The latter is called Entrepreneurial Management, as opposed to bureaucratic management. and I spent nearly 40 years as a consultant/coach, helping entrepreneurs install such a system. What else would a libertarian teach? Profits skyrocketed in every place, often doubling … with profits shared by employees.

                    What works best for a small-business would work best for a nation.

                    Obedience vs consent. Which of those two speaks to individual liberty? duh.

                  3. Bingo. The only battle Jefferson lost — and so did we. He as in France during the Constitutional Convention, sent a lengthy letter to Madison, protesting their desire to craft a perpetual constitution. The Articles had lasted 18 years,

                    He defended Consent of the Governed, saying each generation should draft its own Constitution, else we be governed by the Consent of the Dead … tyranny.

                    And he’s right. Conservatives, in all their self-righteous hypocrisy, speak so piously of “what the founders intended.” Who gives a shit?

                    Liberals speak, just as piously, of a “Living Constitution” that they get to invent.

                    In the workplace, which goals are most likely to have firm commitment by the employees … goals handed down from on high … or goals NEGOTIATED AND AGREED by those employees.

                    The latter is called Entrepreneurial Management, as opposed to bureaucratic management. and I spent nearly 40 years as a consultant/coach, helping entrepreneurs install such a system. What else would a libertarian teach? Profits skyrocketed in every place, often doubling … with profits shared by employees.

                    What works best for a small-business would work best for a nation.

                    Obedience vs consent. Which of those two speaks to individual liberty? duh.

                    1. Jefferson was right: who cares what the founding fathers put in the constitution?

                      It’s tyranny, really: the constitutional republic.

                      We can see from the example of all the pure democracies out there, how the world should really work.

                    2. We can see from the example of all the pure democracies out there, how the world should really work.

                      All we have to do is SHIT on the concept of equal, unalienable and/or God-given rights.
                      We can simply vote on the right to …. life itself!!

                      Umm, would we vote for all lives in general, or for the life of each individual … in that fascist paradise devoid of individual liberty?

                  4. I would explain the difference between a republic and a democracy, but it would take too much time and space. Suffice it to say that the founders intended to and did create a republic: i.e., government by elected representatives with Presidential elections to be decided by an electoral college whose membership corresponds to state representation in the House of Representatives. Basically this was because the founders did not trust popular sentiment and generally believed that the landed elite and wealthy should actually wield the power.

                    It’s all well and good to say that the people want the Constitution to work differently than it does, but if that’s true “the people” must change the Constitution. The document says what it says and means what it means.

            2. Also those with landslide victories.

          2. “How much influence would Comey and the Russians have needed to swing a mere 39,000 votes — which is all that Hillary lost the Electoral vote by (in three states combined)?”

            Depends.
            It they were all as imbecilic as you, free Koolaid and cookies woulda done it.

            1. sneer at the fool (lol)

              Republicans bail on Trump … vote UNANIMOUSLY to release the Democrat rebuttal. Final straw may have been when even TREY GOWDY announced as one one six Republicans would vote with Democrats for full release .

              (This action also HUMILIATES Sevo, Last of he Shitloards, Sammi, damikesc Elias Fakabrain, and other trolling puppets .)

              Left – Right = Zero

              (snort)

        2. Could republicans be pure evil?

          Is Trump possibly a Russian agent?

          Is Hillary Clinton perhaps our real President?

          1. Hey you got a question in there that’s actually relevant to our current situation.

            1. If you’re not taking about how much Drumpf sucks, then you’re not talking about anything relevant!

              1. Every President in my lifetime sucked, excepting maybe Ike, of whom I have no childhood memories.

                1. My parents said that Ike was a do-nothing. If only the others could have followed in his footsteps.

                  1. So, you’d ban all elections, deny will of the people, and sneer at consent of the governed.
                    Because your dictatorship is preferred by .. you,
                    Oh.

          2. “Could republicans be pure evil?

            Is Trump possibly a Russian agent?

            Is Hillary Clinton perhaps our real President?”

            Find out next on CNN!

          3. Republicans are pure evil, Democrats are only 98% evil by weight.

    2. Progs seemed quite upset that we had spies watching foreign leaders.

      Which, for all of its faults, is kinda the job of the intel community.

      1. So you admit Trump and Nunes are full of shit.

        Progs seemed quite upset that we had spies watching foreign leaders.

        Where?

  5. “If you look at my positions, I had the same position under President Obama that I have under President Trump, and that is that the power to listen to people’s conservation ? your private conversation ? are private and nobody else’s business, and the government should not reveal that,” Paul told “The View” Friday.

    Did they cluck approval or disapproval? Could go either way these days.

    1. They probably made concerned-faces to the camera that suggested, “I don’t know what to think about this guy, can we just go, “Yeah but you’re a racist?”

    2. Rand is the same guy who fucked up his Presidential campaign, with the ABSOLUTE craziest thing I ever saw.
      He goes to Berkeley, gets a standing ovation on non-intervention and civil liberties. THEN fucked it all up less than a week later .. when he played kiss-ass to the American Taliban by calling for religious tent revivals all across America, to protest the gave threat of … marriage equality!

      Q .What kinda moron thinks they can combine civil liberties and non-intervention with the absolute craziest extreme of social conservatism?

      A. Anyone wacky enough to swallow that Ron Paul’s Liberty Coalition is libertarian .. or anyone else crazy enough to believe those two factions can be in the same coalition.

  6. Rep. Thomas Massie (R-Ky.) tweeted, “My question: who made the decision to withhold evidence of FISA abuse until after Congress voted to renew FISA program?”

    Everyone, Congressman. Everyone.

    1. “”withhold evidence of FISA abuse “”

      its sort of a disingenuous accusation. it was withholding *publication* of the evidence of FISA abuse. the abuse itself was well known in DC circles for many months before the renewal. It was written about in National Review and in other sources. It was pretty much common knowledge as early as Jan 2018 that there had been a variety of abuses of national security ‘protections’ under the Obama admin (e.g. the ‘unmasking’ scandal which Nunes also made a stink about).

      I get his point, but its the wrong message = what he should be doing is asking why the FISA applications aren’t being disclosed simultaneous with the memo. Because the memo are merely footnotes to that “Evidence”, and without the raw evidence, it allows the media to just screech that its all nothing but partisan spin.

      1. I don’t know that it was known and discussed outside the beltway, which is what I think he was referencing. The Nunes memo seems to have brought it into mainstream focus.

        1. I don’t know that it was known and discussed outside the beltway

          Im not saying it was. I’m saying his implication that ‘if only people had known about the abuse, they might have voted differently’ seems to me wishful thinking. Everyone in congress knew that sort of abuse was taking place, and they voted for it anyway.

          if pols were concerned what their own voters might think about voting against it, they could have made efforts to push their concerns and get ahead of public opinion.

          he’s attempting to create the impression of some major contradiction, when in fact there’s very little real one.
          many hawkish people in congress are 100% kosher with govt having surveillance powers – its just that they object to those powers being *abused*. Its no different than objecting to IRS abuse while still thinking the IRS ‘should nevertheless exist’. Few people outside of libertarian circles really see any apparent contradiction between voting for FISA, and being outraged at FISA abuses.

          1. Whoda thunk a secret court would be an organization ripe for potential abuse?

            1. Yeah, really. Maybe if the court would just be more secret then we wouldn’t find out about the abuse. After all, not getting caught is the same thing as not having done it.

            2. you’re preaching to the converted. my point is that (massie’s) is a bad argument if its intended to convince people of anything.

              most people are fine with the iron-fisted security-state, and are only ever outraged when they are reminded that power is always used for political purposes. and even then, they only see ‘who is it being used against’ (Our Team!? OUTRAGEOUS) Its always “who are the bad apples”, not, “why is this even possible?”

              the way you convince people is to shine more light on the process. Instead of kicking his peers in the nuts and trying to shame them (with arguments that make little sense to anyone except libertarians)… he should be rallying people (like Amash is) to disclose the actual FISA applications themselves. the more evidence people see, the less able they are to pretend the problem is just a partisan one, and that the system itself is prone to abuse.

            3. Secret court does seem pretty ridiculous in premise doesn’t it?

              1. Not as bad as the total police state of Donald Trump, and today’s GOP.

                1. sneer at the fool (lol)

                  Republicans bail on Trump … vote UNANIMOUSLY to release the Democrat rebuttal. Final straw may have been when even TREY GOWDY announced as one one six Republicans would vote with Democrats for full release .

                  (This action also HUMILIATES Sevo, Last of he Shitloards, Sammi, damikesc Elias Fakabrain, and other trolling puppets .)

                  Left – Right = Zero

                  (snort)

      2. National Review — no lefty — tears it to shreds, says it proves the exact opposite of what they claim, and CONFIRMS the original NY Times scoop, The President has egg splattered all over his puss. Again. As does his obedient army of trolls

  7. Democrats never doubted our intelligence agencies during the Bush years!

    You are giving me enormous diarrhea!

  8. So, is that top image supposed to be an animated GIF? Because I’m not seeing it in any browser.

  9. Sadly, folks such as Paul, Massie, and Amash are basically a minority of three. We need more of them, and quickly, if we want to have a government that we can believe in.

    You get the government that the people choose. You aren’t going to get libertarian politicians until the general population demands libertarian politicians. Until you can convince a large majority of the population that liberty is in everyone’s best interest, expect more of the same.

    1. Just waiting for Atlas to shrug.

      1. Just waiting for Atlas to shrug.

        Get off your ass and … do something.
        This is life. not fiction.

    2. Well, Francisco understands what Rand actually taught on that.

      15. GOVERNMENT FINANCING IN A FREE SOCIETY by Ayn Rand
      “Any program of voluntary government financing is the last, not the first, step on the road to a free society – the last, not the first, reform to advocate. … It would work only when the basic principles and institutions of a free society have been established. It would not work today.”
      The Virtue of Selfishness

      Except there would be thousands of steps along the way, of which libertarians have ,… NONE. … not a single specific policy, not a single step down a path toward liberty.

      This is why we lose.

      In a libertarian society, we all live in gated communities with private police forces and competing court systems. John Galt’s statue stands in every town square.

      In a free society, Galt’s Gulch exists right next to a Marxist commune ? lesbians up the street from a community of Christian Fundies ?. retired Catholic priests across the field from Wiccans. Each community would be voluntarily populated. And that statue would be Voltaire, inscribed: “I disagree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it.”

      Rand also said Galt’s Gulch was not proper for a society, because it was a community of like-minded people.
      The defense rests.

  10. Just because other people are inconsistent and unprincipled doesn’t mean I have to be, and politicians generally are unprincipled. Nevertheless, the memo was great news for libertarians–it shows clear violations of the fourth amendment.

    In the memo that Democrats cannot dispute the following facts.
    1) Carter Page is an American citizen
    2) FISA is used for spying on foreigners (the F in FISA stands for foreign)
    3) To justify spying on Carter Page, the FBI would have to prove he was secretly a spy being paid by a foreign government.
    4) Carter Page is a free man: he was not indicted for anything.

    The ludicrous thing is that the Trump dossier was used in the FISA application to spy on Carter Page. What does Carter Page have to do with the Trump dossier? Are they saying Carter Page paid some of the prostitutes to urinate in beds slept in by the Obamas? And what does that have to do with anything? The dossier must have written by a real clown. Couldn’t Hillary and the DNC paid a little more money for something better, or did they want to save money by settling for the end of the month special?

    1. FISA can be used for surveillance of American citizens.

      Also, the Steele dossier did not discuss only Trump exclusively. It also discussed Cohen, Page and Manafort.

      1. I already stated that FISA can be used against an American citizen only if he is a spy being paid by a foreign government. But Carter Page was not being paid by the Russian government (the dossier only mentioned Page being paid by a Russian commericial business); and he is a free man because no charges have been filed against him. Carter Page should sue the FBI for infringing his fourth amendment rights.

        1. I already stated that FISA can be used against an American citizen only if he is a spy being paid by a foreign government.

          Orr there is reason to suspect the might be. In the real world most of us live in, there can be no conviction with no inquiry and no evidence! Ooops.

          1. It takes more than suspicion. The FBI didn’t provide evidence that Carter Page (who gave our country several years of dedicated military service) was a Russian spy. Merely working with Russian commercial interests is not evidence of being a Russian spy If he was a Russian spy, then why is he free and why wasn’t he indicted?

            1. One more time, MarkP

              ” In the real world most of us live in, there can be no conviction with no inquiry and no evidence! Ooops.”

            2. then why is he free and why wasn’t he indicted?

              How many times, in how many ways, can you fuck up the difference between probable ; cause and a guilty verdict?

              National Review — no lefty — tears it to shreds, says it proves the exact opposite of what they claim, and CONFIRMS the original NY Times scoop, The President has egg splattered all over his puss. Again. As does his obedient army of trolls

              Not even Gowdy would accept the premise that the FISA warrant affected the rest of the investigation: “So to the extent the memo deals with the dossier and the FISA process, the dossier has nothing to do with the meeting at Trump Tower. The dossier has nothing to do with an email sent by Cambridge Analytica. The dossier really has nothing to do with George Papadopoulos’s meeting in Great Britain. It also doesn’t have anything to do with obstruction of justice. So there’s going to be a Russia probe, even without a dossier.”

          2. Orr there is reason to suspect the might be. In the real world most of us live in, there can be no conviction with no inquiry and no evidence! Ooops.

            Michael Hihn, “Libertarian” in opposition to the 4th Amendment.

            Just think…you’re advocating the government violate rights to get evidence of POSSIBLE criminal wrong-doing.

            1. You quote me saying that you’re full of shit. Then PROVE IT!
              You’re too ignorant to know that a Search Warrant is looking for POSSIBLE criminal action.
              (sneer)

              One more time for the mentally deficient. You, MarkP and Trump’s other trolls ass-ume guilt must be proven BEFORE an inquiry ot investigation … so appropriate Trump’s now Police State

            2. sneer at the fool (lol)

              Republicans bail on Trump … vote UNANIMOUSLY to release the Democrat rebuttal. Final straw may have been when even TREY GOWDY announced as one one six Republicans would vote with Democrats for full release .

              (This action also HUMILIATES Sevo, Last of he Shitloards, Sammi, damikesc Elias Fakabrain, and other trolling puppets .)

              Left – Right = Zero

              (snort)

    2. MarkP is SO full of shit. A censored document … with all disagreement censored by our rulers … is a police state.
      The memo itself proves him wrong, stating the investigation began 5 months BEFORE the Steele FISA request,
      But reading gets trumped by obedience to the rulers.

      1. How long it began is utterly immaterial to the FISA request. They could’ve been “investigations” for a decade. The only thing that matters is what was in the request.

        1. How long it began is utterly immaterial to the FISA request. They could’ve been “investigations” for a decade. The only thing that matters is what was in the request.

          WHICH IS BEING CENSORED BY YOUR GESTAPO, snowflake

        2. sneer at the fool (lol)

          Republicans bail on Trump … vote UNANIMOUSLY to release the Democrat rebuttal. Final straw may have been when even TREY GOWDY announced as one one six Republicans would vote with Democrats for full release .

          (This action also HUMILIATES Sevo, Last of he Shitloards, Sammi, damikesc Elias Fakabrain, and other trolling puppets .)

          Left – Right = Zero

          (snort)

    3. Most warrants are based on the word of a witness involved in the activity themselves being compensated to say whatever agents want. Political research opposition by a professional company with the author unaware of the source of the contract is a gigantic step up. That’s what makes the criticism ring so hollow… I bet not a one of people like Mark P complaining about it actually care about reforming the burden of getting a warrant in general, they’re just mad Trump is being investigated.

      1. I mad that the FBI is run by liars and cheaters and care nothing about our fourth amendment rights. I agreed with Ron Paul PRIOR to this incident that the FBI should be eliminated. It is very selfish of you to say that because your fourth amendment rights weren’t violated, you were not personally harmed and screw Carter Page.

        1. How many times will the troll repeat that bullshit about Carter Page?

      2. Most warrants are based on the word of a witness involved in the activity themselves being compensated to say whatever agents want.

        IF THEY HAVE A WITNESS TO THE CRIME, THEN WHY DO THEY NEED A WARRANT? OMG
        (your claim is another crazy conspiracy, another self-humiliation)

  11. They won’t. That’s not the point of any of this, and you know it, Nick.

  12. One could say the same thing about Reason….

    Coming out for forcing people to buy health insurance…

    Endorsing government funded museums

    Wanting government funded abortions…

    None of those are even slightly defendable libertarian positions, yet are things Reason has endorsed.

    1. Wedding cake coercion, “special” prosecutorial fishing expeditions into the lives of private citizens, …

      1. Stop lying about the wedding cake issue.
        There can be no special rights for Christians only, under a Constitution that guarantees Separation. Full stop.

        1. > There can be no special rights for Christians only

          No special rights were even proposed. That couple had every right to go to a different bakery. They were sniffing around for a lawsuit. And, you had nothing to say about the Gay coffee shop owner kicking Christians out of his establishment because they offended HIM. They weren’t even saying anything to him or his other patrons. He’s just intolerant in the same way you claim the wedding cake baker is.

          https://reason.com/blog/2017/10…..coffee-sho

    2. JeremyR is TOTALLY full of shit. And probably drooling as he typed, Shame on you.

  13. Sadly, folks such as Paul, Massie, and Amash are basically a minority of three. We need more of them, and quickly, if we want to have a government that we can believe in.

    I give it two days before Reason is back to bashing them for being pro-life and anti-open borders.

    1. Pro-life is fascist denial of equal, unalienable and/or God-given rights (if mandated by law). Defying the Word of Almighty God, in the name of God, is the ultimate in moral hypocrisy.

      And if Reason ever bashes open-borders, you’ll only be 50% wrong.

  14. Rand Paul did say a true thing when he observed that this isn’t your grandfather’s wire-tapping concerns. Modern communications intercepts are far more pervasive, intrusive, and unavoidable. The use of them by our government for blatantly political ends is not something that can be minimized, apologized for, or denied.

    1. True. But Trump’s bullshit (and yours) can be denied. And ridiculed
      P.S,. Your fucking party passed, and your President signed, the FISA authorizations … and Rand Paul endorsed the police state tactics of the Nunes memo — with the source data, and all challenges, CENSORED from view.

      So, spare us your self-righteous moral hypocrisy, as you shamefuily defend FAR greater abuses of individual liberty. Because personal email server.

  15. Not even Gowdy would accept the premise that the FISA warrant affected the rest of the investigation: “So to the extent the memo deals with the dossier and the FISA process, the dossier has nothing to do with the meeting at Trump Tower. The dossier has nothing to do with an email sent by Cambridge Analytica. The dossier really has nothing to do with George Papadopoulos’s meeting in Great Britain. It also doesn’t have anything to do with obstruction of justice. So there’s going to be a Russia probe, even without a dossier.”

  16. I still wonder how such a ‘great’ pres as obama could do all these illegal things and still remain revered by so many dumb folks?

    1. I still wonder why you dorks refuse to accept that Trump and Obama are both totally corrupt.

      Left – Right = Zero

  17. “Situational libertarianism” is pretty much what Reason editors are all about.

  18. The GOP Police State takes a BIG hit.
    Six Republicans have voted with Democrats to release the Democrat rebuttal. And shove it up Trump’s ass.

  19. Republicans bail on Trump … vote UNANIMOUSLY to release the Democrat rebuttal. Final straw may have been when even TREY GOWDY announced as one one six Republicans would vote with Democrats for full release .

    When they lost Gowdy, the other Republicans would have been twisting in the wind, all alone

    (This action also HUMILIATES Sevo, Last of he Shitloards, Sammi, Elias Fakabrain, Mark22, demicesk, Michael Cook and other right-wing goobers.)

    Left – Right = Zero
    (snort)

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  21. Fox NEWS division humiliates Trumpsters AGAIN! New video, “Who Is Carter Page” REMINDS us of Page’s many years of contacts with Russians, INCLUDING his admission of giving information to Russian intelligence, AND resigning the Trump team because of Russian contacts

    This comes ON TOP of Trey Gowdy calling out Trumptard lies about the FISA warrant … as they scurry like rats to DENY all their prior conspiracy hysteria on this very page … and ALL Republicans in the Intel Committee now refusing to support Trump’s phony “vindication” …even John Kelly saying the Nunes memo DOES NOT vindicate Trump.

    1. Christ. Have you been checked for hypergraphia? Nobody save for a fuckstick like Tony would want to spaend an entire night reading 1,000+ posts from you.

      Tone it down, John Doe.

      1. Right-wing Authoritarian bigot shouts down the truth … like a “triggered” campus snowflake.

        In defense of your aggression — see Trump’s totally psychopathic lie about Charlottesvile, sucking up to white supremacists. Bad enough that he said both sides were to blame. But he also went bat-shit crazy, saying the counter-protesters charged the nazis, swinging clubs. He is one sick fuck. UNDENIABLE proof

        The initial assault, Charlottesvile – nazis and white supremacist attacking with clubs
        The initial assault, Charlottesvile – nazis and white supremacist run amok.
        “Alt-Left” standing peacefully, no visible clubs or bats.
        Alt-Right Facsists/Racists crash into them en masse, swinging clubs.
        Fascists are carrying the same shields as cops in riot gear. The motherfuckers CAME for violence

        Shame on Trump and the party who defends him
        Left – Right = Zero

        1. Yes, yes, I know. I’m a racist for disagreeing with you [laugh]. Who isn’t?

          If you only knew how over-the-top your myriad posts with multiple fonts and colors look. They’re like those conspiracy chain e-mails that have been forwarded since the 1990s.

  22. I’ve never heard of the word “sagacity.” So, in order to help those who never heard of the word either:
    Sagacity – “acuteness of mental discernment and soundness of judgment.”
    By the way, I wish we had more Constitutionally astute Patriots as in Congressmen Justin Amash and Thomas Massie, as well as Senator Rand Paul, and far less of the kind who instead Serve Us Up!

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