Trump Denies 'Shithole Countries' Comment, Drama Around 'Shitty Media Men' Still Rages, Tampa Passes Creepy Bathhouse Law: A.M. Links

• 

  I-Images/ZUMA Press/Newscom

  President Trump is now insisting that he didn't call African and Caribbean nations "shithole countries" during a meeting on immigration policy, as reported.

The language used by me at the DACA meeting was tough, but this was not the language used. What was really tough was the outlandish proposal made - a big setback for DACA!

— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 12, 2018

• Former Mexican President Vincente Fox responds:

.@realDonaldTrump, your mouth is the foulest shithole in the world. With what authority do you proclaim who's welcome in America and who's not. America's greatness is built on diversity, or have you forgotten your immigrant background, Donald?

— Vicente Fox Quesada (@VicenteFoxQue) January 11, 2018

• French feminists tell American counterparts to chill out. Meanwhile, an as-yet-unfinished Harper's article about (at least in part) the "shitty media men" list that circulated in late 2017 has spurred preemptive fear and loathing from American feminists after a rumor that writer Katie Roiphe might expose the identity of the list's creator.
• San Francisco claims it will stop arresting sex workers for prostitution if they are reporting a violent crime.
• A student is suing Illinois' Joliet Junior College for allegedly preventing her from passing out leaflets critical of capitalism.
• Tampa has passed strict new regulations on local "bathhouses"—largely LGBT-friendly bars and clubs—under the guise of stopping sex trafficking.
• The Weekly Standard reviews Dangerous Faggot.

Follow us on Facebook and Twitter, and don't forget to sign up for Reason's daily updates for more content.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

President Trump is now insisting that he didn't call African and Caribbean nations "shithole countries" during a meeting on immigration policy, as reported.

But have they tried "Make Haiti Not A Shithole Again" hats?

[DJF]

I have been to Haiti, its a shithole. And that was before the earthquake.

[Citizen X - #6]

In 1804, slaves in Haiti rebelled against their French masters. For the crime of stealing themselves, the French government demanded an enormous sum in reparations under pain of invasion. Haiti didn't finish paying off the reparations until 1947, which is part of the reason why it is a catastrophically failed state rather than merely a Caribbean-normal failed state.

[Domestic Dissident]

For the mathematically challenged, 1947 was more than 70 years ago. That's basically three generations.

But we'll always have lefties like you to push the standard-issue "evil white men are to blame for everything that's wrong in the world and victimhood is eternal" though, even in the year 2525.

[Citizen X - #6]

And the point sailed so far over Simple Mikey's pointy head that it interfered with satellites.

[Domestic Dissident]

Your point is perfectly clear dipshit, it's the same point every other lefty asshole in the JournoList like you makes every day.

[Chinny Chin Chin]

HOLD THE PHONE!

Are you saying Citizen X is Wiegel?

[Crusty Juggler]

It's a known fact that Citizen X is Weigel.

[Citizen X - #6]

We're all Weigel down here.

[Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid]

Citizen Weigel

[Arizona_Guy]

I thought everyone was Tulpa.

[A Cynic's Guide to Zen]

I want to snark at Citizen X too!

Nerd!

[poptart]

So you're saying we should bomb France.

I like it.

[loveconstitution1789]

Not worth it. The French would give up immediately after Trump tweeted that we were bombing France.

[Citizen X - #6]

Since you're not going to figure it out, you cretin: i'm saying shitty governments crippled Haiti even more so than they did its neighbors during a crucial developmental period in the world economy. Add to that the fact that Haiti never had much in the way of natural resources, and it was doomed as a country a long time ago.

[Domestic Dissident]

The people of Haiti aren't "doomed" unless they really want to be. Fate and predestination don't exist.

Unfortunately, what does exist in large quantities are assholes like you with a vested interest in seeing that the poor remain stuck in the cycle of victimhood and misery forever.

[Citizen X - #6]

See, now you're attributing a made-up belief system to me because you're too dumb to realize how badly you missed the point. And then you scored an own goal: i said the country of Haiti is doomed; you pointed out (accurately!) that the people of Haiti are not; so what option do the rational, self-interested inhabitants of a basketcase country have vis a vis improving their lot? The Haitian dude driving the airport shuttle last time i was in Fort Lauderdale figured it out.

[Domestic Dissident]

You're so completely full of crap it's just laughable. You clearly say that Haiti is doomed to be a poor basket-case nation forever because they were badly treated by the French and don't have much in the way of natural resources, and then when someone challenges your bullshit you say you're not saying what you're saying.

You're a joke, and it's a shame your filthy whore mother didn't do you in with a coat hanger.

[Citizen X - #6]

The Simple Mikey method:

1. Miss the point
2. Make up a different point (inserting words such as "forever" where they didn't previously exist) and attack that
2a. Get weirdly offended on behalf of prior French governments
2b. Shit self
3. Internet Tuff Gai posturing

[$park? leftist poser]

Your stupidity is literally breathtaking.

[Zeb]

It really is. I usually just ignore it, but god damn it this is just incredible.

[paranoid android]

A lot of people seem to be missing the point. The problem is not describing the countries as "shitholes" because that's basically just a crass reverse-euphemism in place of calling them "underdeveloped" or "economically depressed".

It is Trump's implication that these countries therefore produce inferior people who must be kept away from America that is the calumny here. To accept this argument, one must believe that a person born in a poor country, one that does not respect their individual liberties, and allows its people no self-determination in government or only the superficial appearance of such, will always be tainted by their birth and unable to participate in a free society.

That is utter bullshit, and surely almost every one of us knows someone personally who proves it to be.

[Citizen X - #6]

Truth.

[Ecoli]

Haiti is a shit-hole. That is a succinct, accurate, and politically incorrect characterization.

We have plenty of first generation Haitians in the US. Why do we need more?

[Zeb]

Nobody needs 23 kinds of deodorant.

[Rufus The Monocled]

I don't see why the people of Haiti need to be singled out like this.

Give humans a chance and more often than not they come through. America is the perfect 'chance' people need. And Canada too since many Haitians come to Quebec for obvious reasons.

They tend to be hardworking and educated. Many own businesses, become teachers and nurses.

[Rufus The Monocled]

The country, though, is indeed a shithole. There is certainly some truth to what Citizen explained up top but I do see DD's argument of at some point a country that isn't 'shitty' finds a way to rebuild itself.

Spade a spade.

[Leader Desslok]

A better argument to have is how come Haiti is a shit hole, yet right next door on the same island the Dominican Republic is well run and successful (at least in context to the Caribbean).

[Rufus The Monocled]

Good point.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

I don't see why the people of Haiti need to be singled out like this.

Because they all have AIDS.

[Ecoli]

AIDS rate in Haiti:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HIV/AIDS_in_Haiti

[Rufus The Monocled]

And love Voodoo.

VOODOO economics like progs.

On second thought.....

[Kivlor]

It is Trump's implication that these countries therefore produce inferior people who must be kept away from America that is the calumny here. To accept this argument, one must believe that a person born in a poor country, one that does not respect their individual liberties, and allows its people no self-determination in government or only the superficial appearance of such, will always be tainted by their birth and unable to participate in a free society.

The problem with this entire paragraph is that you get the reasoning backwards. It's not that crap countries produce crap people and we should thus keep them out. It's that countries are forged by the people who constitute them, and crap countries are made by crap people, so we should not let them in to do the same to our own nation.

[paranoid android]

I'd like to see you tell a defector from North Korea that his country's problems are his fault and he really should have done a better job forging his country.

[Rhywun]

Cool, so hating New Yorkers and Californians who move to flyover country is back in again, right?

[Arizona_Guy]

Sure, why not?

I propose that any New Yorker in fly-over country gets three strikes. If they say how much better "X" is back home 4 times, they get deported back to NY.

[$park? leftist poser]

Hypothesis:
one must believe that a person born in a poor country ... will always be tainted by their birth and unable to participate in a free society.

Example:
It's that countries are forged by the people who constitute them, and crap countries are made by crap people, so we should not let them in to do the same to our own nation.

[Kivlor]

Sparky: if the people are from an actual Republic and their voting destroys their nation, it is fair to judge in general that they are not fit to participate in your society. Not that they shouldn't be able to try and forge a free society in their own home. The problem is that they won't forge a free society at home no matter how many times you let them vote. The pro-open-borders folks know this in general, and that's why it's considered evil to leave them to the consequences of their decisions. They can't be expected to fix themselves.

Rufus: RE: vetting... The US takes in 1,000,000 immigrants per year. There is no way that we vet these people properly. And there's no real way to do so. It's like telling me you can vet the entirety of the cities of Kansas City and Atlanta every year.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Kivior. I understand that but my point is countries like Canada who take in a lot do vet. Sounds like the process is more rigorous. I could be wrong. I'm just not an expert.

[Citizen X - #6]

Oh good, our resident ambassador from Stormfront is here to share some more of his dumbass anthropological Flat Earth theories with us.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

I'm glad I refreshed, as I was about to start my Kivlor impression. No need to now.

[Kivlor]

Oh good, our resident ambassador from Stormfront is here to share some more of his dumbass anthropological Flat Earth theories with us.

Sadly, it is the race deniers who are the flat-earthers my friend. One day you'll hopefully accept reality.

My comments are always intended as generalities. I admit that there is variation within groups. It's not "All Mexicans are bad" or "All Negroes are bad" or "All whites are good". It's that they are different in general, and that there are general trends across groups.

The problem is that you've been Pavlovian trained to react to any such recognition of reality as if it is an admission of pure evil and an intent to genocide.

[Rufus The Monocled]

That's why countries have a screening process and vett to keep the crappy people from those countries out.

Canada was very good at that until this idiot in power who seems to think repatriating Canadians who went to fight for ISIS is 'compassionate' and 'progressive'.

All he and the Liberals are doing is letting dangerous and bad people back into the country put the security of Canadians at risk.

Of course, we're 'alt-right' and 'racist' for daring to say this.

[Zeb]

It's that countries are forged by the people who constitute them,

Made by some of the people who constitute them. And the more corrupt and poor a country is, the smaller the group that really has anything to do with how it is governed tends to be.

[NoVaNick]

a poor country, one that does not respect their individual liberties, and allows its people no self-determination in government or only the superficial appearance of such, will always be tainted by their birth and unable to participate in a free society.

Take out the "poor country" and this describes the major coastal US cities quite well. Though NYC was as poor as most third world countries up until about 20 yrs ago. Maybe Trump should be shipped back there.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Though NYC was as poor as most third world countries up until about 20 yrs ago. Maybe Trump should be shipped back there.

Trump's still living in Megacity I, so it's not like going back to NEW YORK CITY is going to change anything.

[Kivlor]

I'd like to see you tell a defector from North Korea that his country's problems are his fault and he really should have done a better job forging his country.

I have one example that might not fit, so the general statement must not be true. Good one PA. North Korea is not a republic, it's people don't get to vote in real elections. The government that is in charge was installed by the Soviets after WWII, and has remained a totalitarian dictatorship since.

It's hard to say that a foreign installed and foreign maintained dictatorship is a result of its people.

When we are talking about immigrants to the US, we are almost exclusively discussing Republics, whose people have a penchant for corruption and violence. Whose people have a vote. And whose people's voting patterns and natural inclinations ruined their nations. Not North Koreans escaping foreign installed dictatorships.

[Ship of Theseus]

^This moron is new to me. How long he been 'round?

[Ship of Theseus]

BTW, Kivlor, are you responsible for every dumbass thing the U.S. gov does?

Imagine a more liberty oriented country develops over the next 10 years and the U.S. descends into Socialist madness, and the people of the new, hypothetical country looks at you and says, "No way, fuck that guy. He's from that backwards, liberty-hating shithole."

[Kivlor]

BTW, Kivlor, are you responsible for every dumbass thing the U.S. gov does?

If a nation--any nation--wants to allow large numbers of people from other countries, I think it is in their best interest to look at the general trends in the populations they will be importing to see if it will cause them trouble at home. If America goes full socialist, and Poland goes more towards our Founding principles, I would expect them to be wary of letting Americans migrate en-masse and then granting them and their children citizenship.

No nation has a duty to save me. And when we finally do import enough looters to end freedom in our nation--and it will happen--I don't expect I'll be fleeing. It's just not in my blood. I'll die here, not in glory but ignominy, on my little plot of land in flyover country when I'm old and the death-squads come to enact Americas own version of South Africa's #FarmMurders / #KilltheBoer / #OneSettlerOneBullet

[Libertarian]

Well, you need to visit again. I've heard the Clinton Foundation has it all cleaned up now.

[Ron]

Sarcasm?

[Ecoli]

Anderson Cooper is all weepy because he once drank a martini in Haiti.

[loveconstitution1789]

He did more than that there, so he *wishes* Haiti was not a shithole with a huge population with HIV.

[CatoTheChipper]

I'll bet that was also before Haiti became the #1 priority of the Clinton Foundation.

I've never been to Haiti, but I'm sure that, since it became a beneficiary of the Clinton Foundation, it has become a tropical paradise with a thriving economy.

I'm pretty sure that Drumpf is just trash-talking about Haiti because of its connection to the Clintons.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hello.

Oh shut up Vince.

Anyone who uses the word 'diversity' in an argument will be given a stern Rufus stare.

[Holmes IV]

How do you feel about biodiversity?

[Citizen X - #6]

The only living wild things where Rufus is from are sugar maples and moose, and that's the way he likes it!

[Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid]

Baby seals, whales and all kinds of other life. I point out those first too because they're Rufus's favorite meals.
I too want to chew the fat with Rufus.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Don't forget the blood drinking.

[Rufus The Monocled]

And Cari-boo!.

Boo!

[loveconstitution1789]

And whatever poutine is.

[loveconstitution1789]

And Molson, eh!

[loveconstitution1789]

Back bacon!

[Rhywun]

Been digging for the source of this and it all seems to stem from "unnamed sources" quoted in the WaPo, natch.

[Dick Puller, Attorney at Law]

Well, if he didn't say it - he should have!

[Fist of Etiquette]

With what authority do you proclaim who's welcome in America and who's not.

Well...

[lap83]

So what is his excuse for Mexico's harsh immigration policies?

[poptart]

"Jesus Christ have you seen what a shithole Guatemala is?"

[Old Mexican's Speedos]

Re: lap83,

So what is his excuse for Mexico's harsh immigration policies?

That Mexico has been a quasi-socialist country since the end of the 1910 civil war? Somehow Trumpistas seem to want socialism just as badly.

What's YOUR excuse for Trump's harsh immigration policies, besides his frank racist views?

[$park? leftist poser]

Why does lap83 need an excuse for Trump's views? Did I miss something?

[lap83]

I just assumed I struck a nerve

[lap83]

So Mexico is allowed to have awful immigration policies because they are awful? And by extension their leaders are awful so they can be awful condescending douches on twitter, I guess? I suppose there is a certain kind of logic to that

[Kivlor]

That Mexico has been a quasi-socialist country since the end of the 1910 civil war? Somehow Trumpistas seem to want socialism just as badly.

What's YOUR excuse for Trump's harsh immigration policies, besides his frank racist views?

So, OM, why has Mexico been a "quasi-socialist country" for so long?

[Dick Puller, Attorney at Law]

That's what's known as "Mexican Property Rights" . Basically, it means, "What's mine is mine. And what's your's is mine too.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Tampa has passed strict new regulations on local "bathhouses"?largely LGBT-friendly bars...

The 80's are in again.

[Mickey Rat]

Oddly, the linked article is from the Seattle paper (about as far as you can get from Tampa in the lower 48), and does not appear to say anything about LGTB frequented businesses.

[loveconstitution1789]

In Mother Russia the bathhouses regulate you.

[poptart]

They are shitholes.

Haiti isn't? Come the fuck on.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Dude. You can't actually say it.

[poptart]

If you can't say it about Haiti, who can you say it about amirite?

[Cynical Asshole]

North Korea? Everyone hates North Korea, right?

[Vernon Depner]

No. I have actually heard dumbasses ranting about how we're oppressing People's Korea.

[Ron]

sometime you have to tell people they live in a shithole to get them to face facts and clean up their own dam mess

[Fist of Etiquette]

San Francisco claims it will stop arresting sex workers for prostitution if they are reporting a violent crime.

I assume that's while they are reporting a violent crime. Otherwise, I just thought of a way to get out of an arrest.

[Vernon Depner]

Better save your receipts.

[loveconstitution1789]

What do you file that receipt under?

Government tyranny or violent crime?

[poptart]

"largely LGBT-friendly bars"

This is patently incorrect. Many of them are exactly what they are claimed to be, and are not bars by any measure.

However, the law is still Nanny state nonsense.

[Mickey Rat]

The linked article talks about massage parlors.

[Fist of Etiquette]

A student is suing Illinois' Joliet Junior College for allegedly preventing her from passing out leaflets critical of capitalism.

Looks like those leaflets should have been critical of statism.

[Citizen X - #6]

The strong pimp hand of the state is never the problem, so much as the selection criteria by which the ho to be slapped is chosen.

[A Cynic's Guide to Zen]

How did you make copies, Sister of Struggle?

Kinkos?

[Jerryskids]

President Trump is now insisting that he didn't call African and Caribbean nations "shithole countries" during a meeting on immigration policy, as reported.

C'mon, that's just Trump's German cultural heritage talking, always obsessed with the racial purity. Aren't we supposed to be sensitive to other cultural norms?

[loveconstitution1789]

You know what other countries called Third World nations "Shitholes"?

[Rhywun]

"have you forgotten your immigrant background, Donald?"

"It's not Mexico, Vinnie!"

[poptart]

Why do people keep pretending that argument is a winner?

"Your family were immigrants too!"

It's so ignorant and disingenuous that it makes me laugh at them every time.

[loveconstitution1789]

Escaping from European tyranny or European Empire building tyranny to the ONLY country in the World that's a Constitutional Democracy at that time, is absolutely the same as Muslims wanting to come to America and not assimilate.

[Fist of Etiquette]

.@realDonaldTrump, your mouth is the foulest shithole in the world.

With what authority do you proclaim who's got the world's foulest mouth? You wouldn't be saying that if Redd Foxx was still alive.

[OpenBordersLiberal-tarian]

@realDonaldTrump, your mouth is the foulest shithole in the world. With what authority do you proclaim who's welcome in America and who's not. America's greatness is built on diversity, or have you forgotten your immigrant background, Donald?

Exactly. It's not the government's job to restrict immigration in any way. Government's only role is to give people who show up here immediate citizenship and encourage them to start voting ASAP.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Are you a parody of some sort that I'm not aware of?

[$park? leftist poser]

Yes, it's a parody. How you're not aware of it, well...

[Rufus The Monocled]

YOU PEOPLE ARE GETTING TOO GOOD AT THIS.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I think it's DD now.

[Kivlor]

Exactly. It's not the government's job to restrict immigration in any way. Government's only role is to give people who show up here immediate citizenship and encourage them to start voting ASAP.

And get them on welfare. Don't forget that.

[Brian]

Why are we letting in this basket of deplorables?

[Aloysious]

The only deplorables are people who are born and raised here. Especially the white ones, bitterly clinging to their gods and their gun, who don't understand that being awarded trophies in sports is a sign of white male patriarchal privilege. They should just shut up and be good little tax cattle.

/splitting headache

[Citizen X - #6]

Former Mexican President Vincente Fox responds:

Fox obviously has never heard "The Aristocrats."

[Citizen X - #6]

San Francisco claims it will stop arresting sex workers for prostitution if they are reporting a violent crime.

Easy. "Armed men are trying to kidnap me!" is a factual statement in 100% of arrests for prostitution.

[Libertarian]

"Meanwhile, an as-yet-unfinished Harper's article about (at least in part) the "shitty media men" list that circulated in late 2017 . . . "

Say . . . whatever happened to the list of 40-odd congressmen who had used taxpayer funds to strike bargains with women who claimed they had been harassed? I saw a mention yesterday that an unusually hight number of congressmen (46) were retiring . . . I wonder if there is an overlap there. And by "wonder" I mean "aha!"

[Citizen X - #6]

If the backlash against #MeToo is beginning, at least it claimed these particular scalps first.

[Ken Shultz]

" With what authority do you proclaim who's welcome in America and who's not."

----Vicente Fox, Former President of Mexico

Well, you see, President Trump was in consultation with congressional leaders at the time. They were discussing a revision of the rules of naturalization--especially about whether "dreamers" should be allowed to become U.S. citizens. Setting the rules of naturalization is an enumerated power of congress, but the president needs to sign that legislation so . . .

So, in answer to your question, Mr Fox, Donald Trump helps decide who is and who isn't welcome in America by the authority of the U.S. Constitution.

[Kivlor]

Statist! You're a slaver! You are interfering with the right of these people to travel wherever they want unmolested!

/Old Mexican, Hazel, and Reason Staff

[BestUsedCarSales]

At the very least you are calling for the state to police movements of people and labor. So, yeah. That's a statist stance.

[Kivlor]

If believing in the existence of a state, and the right of peoples to form them, and that they can regulate their own boundaries is statist, then sure. I'm glad to be one. But you've diluted the meaning down to "not an anarchist" at that point.

[BestUsedCarSales]

And I'm saying that statist is a spectrum of beliefs that this specific one happens to belong on. I'm using a clear and obvious definition of a statist belief as "A belief in enforcement or control of something through governmental force." What's your definition?

[Kivlor]

Usually people use "statist" as a pejorative to describe someone who supports centralized planning of the economy through strict regulations and who generally wants to increase state power.

I'm not advocating for increased state power. This is an enumerated power. I'm not calling for regulating the economy, but I am calling for regulating the crossing of the border--which will have effects on the economy, intended or unintended.

If you're not using it in this fashion, I'm not objecting to the term. Just clarifying. In this, case, it's not really a pejorative unless you are an anarchist, which I'm admittedly and proudly not.

[Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid]

And he welcomes baby otters...they are brown so therefore Trump is not racist.

[Eric]

You really are starting to sound like this administration's "Press Officer for Libertarians".

[Careless]

More directly, people entering the country come in by getting permission from the State Department and Homeland Security, both of which are run by... the president

[$park? leftist poser]

With what authority do you proclaim who's welcome in America and who's not. America's greatness is built on diversity, or have you forgotten your immigrant background, Donald?

Being "lectured" on how America works by Vicente Quesadilla? What's next, lessons on army training from Robert Mugabe?

[This Machine Chips Fascists]

Boom shaka laka

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

America's greatness is built on diversity, or have you forgotten your immigrant background, Donald?

Sure, in small quantities. Ask any of the open-borders advocates on here if they've ever lived in a majority-minority enclave for any length of time, though, or plan to anytime soon, and mostly you get a lot of hemming and hawing. The ones who did were sure to get the fuck out at the earliest opportunity, like I did. At least OM's obvious ethnic chauvinism has substance to it; the rest of these twerps are mostly white people who think "diversity" is how many foreign restaurants you can eat at in a given area and how cheap they can get their roof redone, and wouldn't dream of sending their kids to the same schools as immigrants.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I did.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Yeah, I did too--and it sucked ass.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Man, I loved it. I miss my old home so much and would move back there in a minute if I could find work back home.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

Man, I loved it. I miss my old home so much and would move back there in a minute if I could find work back home.

You could always get a job roofing instead of having a decent one that pays you well.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

I did, and people often ask me why I would ever leave.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Instead of tweeting out, Fox should be working with the administration because they've made immigration reform a key issue. And the bottom line is millions pour in from HIS fricken country. So Mr. El Presidente what are YOUR proposals?

Show Americans your fox smarts.

[Juice]

That's Se?or El Former Presidente to you.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Yeh. Shows you what I know.

He can be El Se?or Frog for all I care.

Anyone who likes Trudeau is not fit for anything.

[Rhywun]

Well, he's not president any more but yeah, he seemed perfectly content with the status quo over his term.

[Rufus The Monocled]

He seems to talk as if he still holds influence so....he should be offering solutions instead of getting into a Twitter war with Trump.

[paranoid android]

he should be offering solutions instead of getting into a Twitter war

I wonder if this advice could be applied to anyone else...

[Kivlor]

So Mr. El Presidente what are YOUR proposals?

I think his proposal is on display openly. He thinks that his people have a right to colonize America and overrun our government and elections with their backwards and savage ways.

[Leader Desslok]

What does the Fox say?

Derpy derpy derpy derp derp, derpy derpy derpy derp derp.

[DiegoF]

What does the Fox say?

That shit is even more insufferable than Presidente Fox.

[Leader Desslok]

No shit, my kid seems to love playing that song like five times a day, everyday.

[Citizen X - #6]

Fun fact. what the fox ACTUALLY says is [devil sounds].

[loveconstitution1789]

That must be the same thing CNN, NBC, CBS, and all other lefty says too.

Derpa, derpy, derpie, derpy, derp.....

[Libertarian]

"A student is suing Illinois' Joliet Junior College for allegedly preventing her from passing out leaflets critical of capitalism."

"Listen, girlie, this is a free country that thrives on capitalism, where people can follow their dreams and do whatever they want. Now gimme those goddam leaflets!"

[DiegoF]

Why is Reason getting scooped on this by some kid at Columbia?
.
An onerous trucking regulation will hurt all consumers, is zealously supported by Big Trucking, and opposed nearly to the point of tears by small fleets and the remaining owner-operators (whom it is pushing out of business hard). This has been quietly happening so long even The Federalist has now taken notice. From Reason all this time? Silence.
.
Trump explicitly promised truckers he would stop this Obama-planned scheme from taking effect, they voted for him in droves, then he appointed a pro-ELD trucking czar and supported the rule. He's stabbed thousands of red-state, blue-collar entrepreneurs in the back, to the point of destroying their businesses, for a handout to (and coming takeover by) megacorporations, and handed all of us consumers the bill.
.
They are furious at Trump, to the point of vowing not to vote for him again. So why is no one paying attention? Why are all the Trump haters not all over this shit? Perhaps the Left, because their adoration of regulation and hatred of blue-collar whites exceeds even their desire to embarrass Trump; and the Right, because their adoration of Big Business does the same. But where the fuck is Reason?

[Palin's Buttplug]

He's stabbed thousands of red-state, blue-collar entrepreneurs in the back,

The Con Man fucked over small farmers by opposing TPP too.

ANUARY 24, 2017 / 2:57 PM / A YEAR AGO
Struggling U.S. farm sector faces new threat as TPP dies
Mark Weinraub
5 MIN READ

CHICAGO (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump's decision to back out of the Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP) trade deal, a $62 billion market for U.S. farmers, provides a fresh threat to a slumping agricultural economy that has grown increasingly dependent on exports.

[Citizen X - #6]

Yes, when you're counting on opportunities for graft, it hurts when the graft is gone.

[DiegoF]

He didn't run on a promise to preserve TPP; he ran on a promise to oppose it. He didn't stab any of those people in the back (or "con" them, as you put it). Plus Reason has certainly not wanted for denunciations of Trump over TPP. So, not really relevant to my point per se on any count. But you're right, in the U.S. there is far too little attention paid to businesses explicitly helped by trade.

[Palin's Buttplug]

He did promise to bring those wonderful coal jobs back:

Coal plant closures continue even as U.S. ends 'Clean Power Plan'
Emily Flitter, Scott DiSavino
3 MIN READ

NEW YORK (Reuters) - U.S. power firm Vistra Energy Corp said on Friday that it would shut two coal-fired plants for economic reasons, as closures in the industry continue apace despite the environment regulator saying this week he wanted to end the "war on coal."

Unfortunately, those coal people who believed the Con Man might as well have a degree from Trump University.

[DiegoF]

Meh, also not the same. Those are general "promises" as to the effect of policy. If you believe a politician has some sort of Delphic power of prognostication just because he says "believe me" with special fervency, that's kind of on you. There needs to be some responsibility here of the voter, some reasonableness as to the nature of politicians.

Not really the same as if he, say, promised to cut environmental regulations (let alone one explicitly named one) to coal and then specifically betrayed them as to implementing that policy. Maybe even appointed Al Gore as EPA head.

[Kivlor]

I think most supporters take such promises as a promise to attempt to save their jobs. If Trump took office and went full-bore anti-coal in his policies and regulations they would hate him for betraying them. If he makes a good-faith effort to save their jobs through deregulation and maybe a bit of favoritism and that falls flat, they're not as likely to hate him.

[DiegoF]

Indeed. Any reasonable ones would do exactly that. And I think they do in fact do so, at least to some extent, and are being shortchanged in estimation of that reasonableness and savviness by elite-class condescension.

[NoVaNick]

Natural gas has been coal's biggest enemy of late, but the anti-fracking arm of the democrat party, funded by Mark Steyer, are determined to remove that option from our energy portfolio too. I think this had something to do with why Pennsylvania and Ohio went for Trump, and might well again in 2020.

[NoVaNick]

Oops- I meant Tom Steyer.

[loveconstitution1789]

Too bad not Tom Sawyer, so Rufus could sing along with other great Rush tunes.

[Zeb]

Nice link.

[Crusty Juggler]

TWSS

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

Savage.

[DiegoF]

Alright there, are you happy? [Sobs]

[Libertarian]

Any chance that when Trump mentioned "shitholes" he was talking about Tampa bathhouses?

[Palin's Buttplug]

Trump owes his success to shithole type voters considering it was white trash in flyover country that elected him.

[bevis the lumberjack]

Yeah, because Wisconsin and Haiti are exactly the same.

You ever going to apologize for calling me a "fucking liar" when I stated a commonly accepted truth regarding the Obama administration and the Title IX show trials?

[Ken Shultz]

He's never been honorable before. Why change now?

[Holmes IV]

Anyone know if he ever paid the bet he lost?

[loveconstitution1789]

He hasn't.

[Cynical Asshole]

You ever going to apologize for calling me a "fucking liar"

Right after he pays off that bet he lost.

[Citizen X - #6]

Shreek continues his decade-plus career of winning hearts and minds.

[Ken Shultz]

Hating the blue collar, white, middle class is the only thing on which he's always been consistent.

[DiegoF]

Well, he seems to like farmers and miners enough you have to give him that. See above.

[Ecoli]

It's not a gaff when you guys say it. Right?

[lap83]

"White trash in flyover country" but enough about the Clinton's former colleagues and relatives.

[Lucius Fergeson]

Good job winning back the Bluedog Democrats from Trump's hands using that type of language to describe them. Jesus Christ. At least Trump is insulting people who would never vote for him in the first place, even if it's in his usual shitty, annoying crude manner. You're just attacking your own base like a fucking brainless philophaster, like most of the rest of the Democratic partisans. You idiots should realize that's not good when this region still makes up a good portion of the electoral votes needed for you to get into power, but then again you're too fucking stupid to realize that you are subservient to a political corporation despite supposedly being anti-corporation, so there's that.

[Libertarian]

I think Trump's "shithole" controversy had just about put a lock on his reelection.

[Zeb]

Eh. No one will remember in a week.

[mad.casual]

Yeah. I heard about this story on the radio on the way home and everyone was using 'the derogatory term who shall not be named'-type descriptions. So, naturally, I just assumed he'd used some variant of the n-word. When I found out it was (or was alleged to be) 'shithole'. I realized the story had less legs than the, and I warn you some might find this offensive, Pussy Riot story.

Remember when Jesse Jackson accidentally said he wanted to cut Obama's balls off into a hot mic? Neither do I.

[Ken Shultz]

I think it has less legs with people who disagree with hm on immigration.

For people who agree with him, that statement makes him seem like an answer to prayer.

[BestUsedCarSales]

A lot of the oddity of Trump is that he speaks more like a random guy on the street than a politician. For me that's kind of a wash personally. Though I do like that he tweets. It's interesting that we have such direct connection to the thoughts of the President.

[Citizen X - #6]

You can be fucking around on Twitter and accidentally get into a personal flame war with the chief executive of the most powerful country on Earth, and that is special.

[mad.casual]

You can be fucking around on Twitter and accidentally get into a personal flame war with the chief executive of the most powerful country on Earth, and that is special.

Would it be any other way in libertopia? '@Mr.President' shall only tweet policy matters? Political figures barred from tweeting? Only images of politicians kissing babies?

[Leader Desslok]

At this point I'm more surprised that people are surprised that Trump has no filter.

[loveconstitution1789]

The media will remember.

[Ken Shultz]

It very well may have.

And, incidentally, looking at immigration policy from the perspective of what's in America's best interest is precisely the right way to look at things. I disagree with Trump's conclusion, but he's asking the right question.

Cheap labor is a resource, like oil, and having more of it available at lower costs is a good thing for the economy. If cheap labor were bad for economic growth, the slowest growing economy over the last 15 years would be China's.

I want the American people to embrace an open borders treaty with Mexico because I believe it's in our best interests to do so. You can't persuade the American people to embrace that without answering their questions about what's in our best interests.

Those who argue for open borders in terms of what's in the best interests of foreign emigrants waiting to come here are doing a disservice to the cause of open borders. Shrike shows how stupid that strategy can be below. Hating on your fellow Americans for not caring about other people more than themselves is a sure way to make them scoff at open borders.

Any open borders people out there, please, make the case in terms of what's best for American voters or STFU.

[Crusty Juggler]

Any open borders people out there, please, make the case in terms of what's best for American voters or STFU.

[Old Mexican's Speedos]

Re: Ken Shultz,

Those who argue for open borders in terms of what's in the best interests of foreign emigrants

Who is arguing that? *I*, for instance, argue for open borders in terms of what's better for the Market. That includes buyers and sellers, not just immigrants.

[Ken Shultz]

Obama did. His entire immigration policy--refugees and otherwise--was about what was in the best interests of the immigrants. Considering what was best for Americans, in Obama's mind, was racist and selfish. In fact, he considered it his duty to force Americans to accept more immigrants specifically because it was against their will.

When we're talking about the "dreamers", how often do you see stories about their plight as victims? How often do you see people argue that making them U.S. citizens is in our best interests? Not very often on the latter, right?

We've had 16 years of presidents arguing that U.S. policy should be crafted in terms of what's best for other people--going all the way back to the Iraq War. People are sick of it. There are people all over this country who identify with both parties who are glad to hear Trump ask why letting in people from shitholes is in our best interests.

[Ken Shultz]

The way to counter Trump's answer is not to talk about him as selfish or racist. The way to counter his answer is to argue that letting these people in is in our best interests--something progressive leaders on the left probably can't do.

After all, being a progressive is about wanting to use the coercive power of the state to force people to make sacrifices (for what they see as the common good). Arguing that immigration and cheap, unregulated labor isn't a sacrifice at all but a benefit to the economy runs contrary to their whole worldview. And not just on immigration!

They can't even imagine arguing for doing what's in America's interests on trade or global warming or foreign policy. If America's best interests lie in collaborating with Putin to defeat ISIS in Syria, then America's progressive leadership would rather not defeat ISIS--not so long as Putin violates the rights of LGBTQI+ in Russia. And that's because they see forcing Americans to make sacrifices for the benefit of other people as the very purpose of economic policy, foreign policy, and, indeed, immigration policy.

[Kivlor]

Who is arguing that? *I*, for instance, argue for open borders in terms of what's better for the Market. That includes buyers and sellers, not just immigrants.

No, OM. You occasionally make market arguments, but the majority of your howling on this topic has been about how backwards savages have a right to come here, and we don't have a right to deter them. Because you are looking out for your own people's special interests, placing them above the interests and rights of the people of the United States.

[Kivlor]

Cheap labor is a resource, like oil, and having more of it available at lower costs is a good thing for the economy. If cheap labor were bad for economic growth, the slowest growing economy over the last 15 years would be China's.

Ken, when it comes to improving the lives of the citizens of America, and looking out for their interests, I would take issue with the idea that a race to the bottom in wages is always the right path. This ignores things like quality of life. Particularly it ignores things like purchasing power. If we see continued inflation, and decreased wages, the average quality of life for Americans will decline.

This doesn't mean I deny there are uses and advantages to cheap labor. It's just one part of the puzzle.

[BestUsedCarSales]

And you believe that the price of labor should be monitored and controlled by the state?

[Kivlor]

Not necessarily. But I think a state has the right to determine if it wants to intentionally water down the labor market by government policy, or if it doesn't. That's what immigration is, especially in our nation where a foreigner having a baby on our soil makes their kid American.

I'd probably be more in favor of less stringent border restrictions if some reasonable concessions were made regarding things like that.

[Kivlor]

I used some weasel-words here BUCS, and I want to amend it. I don't think the state needs to "monitor" the labor price in general. I certainly don't think they should be controlling it. Outside of some very simple and limited things--banning indentured servitude perhaps, which we already do.

However, right now we are actually importing people with the intent of cheapening the labor pool, which is literally the government monitoring and controlling labor prices. This is pushed by groups like the Chambers of Commerce, who are intentionally trying to use government policy to affect wages in a downward direction. The natural state of things is not mass-immigration.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I used some weasel-words here BUCS, and I want to amend it. I don't think the state needs to "monitor" the labor price in general. I certainly don't think they should be controlling it. Outside of some very simple and limited things--banning indentured servitude perhaps, which we already do.

Sure, feel free to rephrase as needed. Not sarcasm by the way. Feel free to clarify. I am only here to discuss (and fuck around, but this is a discussion)

However, right now we are actually importing people with the intent of cheapening the labor pool, which is literally the government monitoring and controlling labor prices.

I am fine with discontinuing government sponsored immigration and bringing over of refugees. I agree, the government should not be a part of this. But I do believe that individuals should be able to come over freely and leave freely as they feel the need to. If I wanted a friend to visit from overseas, it is very likely that this it would be very difficult, and it is not unlikely that it would be barred. I believe this to be a significant exertion of force by the state.

[Fist of Etiquette]

"I would never put in the creator of the list if they didn't want to be named," Roiphe said.

Unless it turned out to be a man.

[Holmes IV]

And then the charge would be "Mansplaining" as well as, you know, rapey things.

[Citizen X - #6]

Twist - it was Matt Lauer!

[DiegoF]

STFU, shitlord.

From now on, anyone disagrees with me in the comments, they go on my list. You are all sexual predators. For anyone to doubt the veracity of one anonymous claim to that effect, for anyone's career not to be destroyed immediately accordingly, or for anyone making or compiling such allegations to be identified, would be obviously monstrous and unthinkable. So consider yourselves on notice.

[Crusty Juggler]

You are all sexual predators

I am a fuck lion.

[Cynical Asshole]

Personally I'm a fuck shark. I strike suddenly and without warning, but at least it's over quickly...

[BestUsedCarSales]

Sexual Tyrannosaurus here

[$park? leftist poser]

I'm a titty tiger.

[Fist of Etiquette]

As long as the list is a properly formatted Excel spreadsheet.

[DiegoF]

It is Google Sheets. I need to show solidarity.

[BestUsedCarSales]

Ugh, Google's office stuff is so much worse. It's one thing I feel emphatic about. Word has issues, and is less extensible than Tex, but it is so much better than Google's suite. Then when it comes to powerpoint and spreadsheets it is no contest.

[BestUsedCarSales]

I'm ashamed that I said "ugh".

[DiegoF]

Don't be ashamed!

[mpercy]

"San Francisco claims it will stop arresting sex workers for prostitution if they are reporting a violent crime."

Don't tell Kamala Harris.

[DiegoF]

San Francisco New York claims it will stop arresting sex publicly elected workers for prostitution if they are reporting a violent crime to the underside of Chuck Schumer's desk.

Don't tell Kirsten Gillibrand.

[Old Mexican's Speedos]

One thing can come out of Trump's comments about people who are not Norwegian:

The White Supremacists who have flooded this comment section can stop pretending that the hostility towards immigration is based on economic considerations. Because don't come here and tell me a Norwegian immigrunt doesn't takum er jebz! just as well as any other immigrant from non-white populations.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Racism is all the GOP has. They don't give a fuck about spending or deficits as evidenced by Bush/Trump. Now their platform is pure racism and the right Gawd.

[Rhywun]

Your platform advocates keeping minorities dependent on government manna so I wouldn't go casting stones too quickly there.

[BestUsedCarSales]

With a paternalistic justification oftentimes. Just this week we had a video from Berkley where they asserted that poor, minorities are too stupid to navigate the internet.

[Old Mexican's Speedos]

Re: PB

The funniest thing is that racism and white supremacism are not principles that made the GOP. They're not even conservative values. Unfortunately the white supremacists who placed Trump in office with the help of the cowards who were afraid of having a liberal in the SCOTUS finally made the GOP the party of bigots and racists. That used to be the Democrats. Not any more. Sad!

[paranoid android]

I'm still puzzling over exactly *how* the GOP got here. These ugly elements have always been there, sure. But I also remember the presidential debates and rhetoric from the previous few elections like 2008 and 2012. Remember how Reagan-obsessed everyone was? How the candidates were climbing over each other claiming to be the one true scion of Reaganism, because that is what resonated with "the base"?

Did I imagine that? Because looking back at speeches and statement's from Reagan's political career, the dude *loved* immigrants. Nothing made him happier than having people from shithole countries come to America to better themselves and their adopted nation. Now what resonates with the base is calling those same people rapists and criminals and taking actual pleasure in denying them the prospect of a better life.

[Kivlor]

I'm still puzzling over exactly *how* the GOP got here. These ugly elements have always been there, sure. But I also remember the presidential debates and rhetoric from the previous few elections like 2008 and 2012.

The reason is likely because you were never given a proper education on the subject. Schoolbooks for decades have been printed with as propaganda, and you ate it up. Prior to very recent times the norm in both parties was pro-white. This has been the case since the Founding.

Most of the "evil" people in the GOP aren't what people make them out to be. They're not bloodthirsty Nazis looking to purge every darkie from existence. They're normal people who see the damage being done to their communities and nation who are saying "hey, maybe these are bad policies".

[paranoid android]

Go back to whatever sewer you crawled out of.

[Kivlor]

Hey, just because you deny reality doesn't mean the rest of us have to.

[paranoid android]

To the extent our political parties shy away from engaging in the rank collectivism of racism by creating policies that are "pro-white", whatever you mean by that, it is an entirely positive development and one that will continue unabated into the future.

It is sincerely a tragedy that a shitstain like you can count yourself among a nation you are so clearly unworthy of. I take great consolation in the fact that future generations will spit on the memory of people like you.

[Kivlor]

PA, my comment that has you bent out of state was merely a realistic statement about our history up until very recent times. A great example is that ~90% of white Americans polled during WWII stated they would rather lose to the Nazis than desegregate. Even when the 1965 Immigration Act was first signed the Democrats were explicit in their promise that they wouldn't change the demographics of the country from being overwhelmingly white. Both parties had a "pro-white" attitude.

Today, one party has an explicitly anti-white attitude, and the other has the attitude of "Oh, please, don't call me mean names. I'll let you import more brown voters to live on your plantation if you don't call me mean names." Only the GOP doesn't collectivize by race. It's a mistake on their part, IMO.

What is truly tragic is that you have been duped into chimping out every time someone merely states that races are real and different in the aggregate, or expresses a desire to reduce the number of immigrants, and that you're willing to hand over the nation that my forefathers built so you can feel good about yourself in race related discussions.

[paranoid android]

Here's a puzzle: the nativists like to claim that immigrants from poor countries are all /Marxist wolves in sheep's clothing who are coming here to vote themselves universal healthcare and socialism.

Are they aware of the political predilections of Norwegians? Shouldn't they be up in arms about Trump wanting to import tons of social democrats? Why are they not as vociferously opposed in this instance?

TRULY, A MYSTERY

[Kivlor]

A lot of us don't want immigrants from socialist Europe either. I know, it's hard to imagine that we're opposed to importing people from just about anywhere, because it eschews the narrative of "Evil White Supremacists Gonna Make America White Again"

[mad.casual]

It should also be pointed out that the entire (estimated) population of illegal immigrants in major metropolitan areas in the US already exceeds the entire population of Norway. So, either the offended is an oxymoronic sophist (falsely) asserting anybody who's anti-immigration is a white racist calling for the wholesale export of all the brown immigrants and replacing them with white ones, disingenuously regarding the spirit of the notion "Hey, how about we get some good immigrants for a change?" or "We shouldn't use immigration as a form of foreign aid.", or both.

[Kivlor]

Well, the estimated number of illegals--which hasn't been updated in ~20 years--is double the population of Norway.

If you take estimates based off of criminal arrest trends prior to some Obama era changes, the number looks like it's 30+ million, which is 6 times the population of Norway.

At this rate, we could have taken all of Scandinavia's population and it would have been less people.

[Kivlor]

Ok, I overestimated, it was ~26 million prior to the changes, so almost the exact population of Scandinavia as of 2010, which supposes no increases from 2010-2015. It's a lot harder to estimate due to policy changes in reporting at the federal level after that.

[Leader Desslok]

Which is why I support a five year freeze on all immigration until the US 1. figures out what it wants its immigration policy to be, and 2. to figure out how to execute that policy effectively.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

The White Supremacists who have flooded this comment section can stop pretending that the hostility towards immigration is based on economic considerations.

Mine is because my Hispanic side of the family lived in a Hispanic enclave when I was a kid, and I figured out pretty fast that no amount of Viva La Raza and pinche gringo chest-beating would ever make up for the fact that the last thing this country needed was more people like them and their neighbors.

[DiegoF]

What was that, California? That sounds like California. I think people are just fucked up over there in general. Or you just had shitty neighbors. Latinos, as a whole, are the most uneducated group of immigrants to start with and the least likely to value educational advancement for their children; other than that, which is an important consideration to put it mildly, I don't see what is so undesirable about them.

[BestUsedCarSales]

It's interesting. I wonder how it goes after a generation. There's a common trend that in the first generation of children of immigrants about 50% of them speak English and the mother language (That number might be wrong, so please call me a cunt or something.) but by the second generation it's some absurd amount, well over 90% who speak ONLY English. I wonder how trends like this map to other beliefs and tendencies.

I do know that my Grandparents were all immigrants, none of them had a high-school education. Then in my Mom's side only my Mom graduated HS. In my dad's side only my dad went to college. But now almost all my cousins have gone to some college, with most having fully finished it. So, I wonder how much this tracks for other immigrant groups.

Though, we should also do more to remove the powers colleges hold as gatekeepers to employment. Bring back trade schools, and do more to dismantle a system that often emphasizes spending a lot of money to get even a useless college degree.

[loveconstitution1789]

I think its pretty consistent with what you are saying IIRC.

The 2nd Gen assimilation goes up if the immigrants try and assimilate more and pass that on to their kids.

[Red Rocks White Privilege]

No, Colorado.

[mad.casual]

The White Supremacists who have flooded this comment section can stop pretending that the hostility towards immigration is based on economic considerations. Because don't come here and tell me a Norwegian immigrunt doesn't takum er jebz! just as well as any other immigrant from non-white populations.

If you have even a passing familiarity with the magazine, you don't have to go to the archives and look to know that Queen Batshit Crazy Pro-Immigration Zealot Shikha Dahlmia herself has said more than once that merit-based immigration is a good thing and that we should do more of it. She's varyingly held up Canada as a model who, depending on your definition of 'shithole' and/or 'non-white' gets to like the 10th or 11th country on its list before you're rather decidedly in 'non-white shithole' or 'uneducated brown people' territory.

[Old Mexican's Speedos]

President Trump is now insisting that he didn't call African and Caribbean nations "shithole countries" during a meeting on immigration policy, as reported.

Fox News confirmed he said those things. Senator Dick Durbin came out this morning to confirm Trump said those things and said them repeatedly.

This only serves to confirm that Trump is and always has been a racist bigot and a person who is unwilling to take ownership of the things he says which get him in hot water. He's a fucking coward. Us AnCap libertarians knew this since his Mexican rapists comment. A stable genius he sure ain't.

[Sevo]

I didn't know Haitians were a "race". Learn something new every day.

[DiegoF]

It is, objectively speaking, simply true that Haiti is a shithole. But, indeed, there are some truths that are nonetheless inappropriate to speak. I think it's an extremely healthy thing for us to have an "unpresidential" president, but even I think a chief diplomat should be a little more...diplomatic.

More importantly, yesterday in the comments there was, as there often is, a lot of anti-P.C. overreach on this issue. People were talking like, European immigrants = educated, asset to our country; "third world" immigrants = uneducated, drain on our country. But, for instance, a lot of not particularly vital Irish got into the country in the 80s and 90s--that is why they needed the "diversity" help in the first place, and why it actually disadvantages minority-race immigrants. Whereas "third world" countries like India and, yes, Nigeria, with their AIDS and their huts, have immigrant and firstgen populations here that greatly exceed the general American population in educational accomplishment.

There are certainly other potential reasons not to admit people, especially in large numbers, from countries with radically different political values than ours. But that's a different story. Some unsettling shit getting thrown around wrt Europeans vs. "third world" shitholes and value as Americans.

[Old Mexican's Speedos]

Re: Sevo,

I didn't know Haitians were a "race". Learn something new every day.

Neither is being 'Mexican' a race, yet anti-immigrant nativists and white supremacists want to think we all look like the Frito Bandito.

Don't look at me. Look at your Trumpista friends and ask them if they think being from a "shithole" country means the people are shit. Don't be a coward for ONCE in your life.

[DiegoF]

The Frito Bandito was cool, dammit! I don't know how he became so symbolic of racist media portrayals of Latinos. Surely there are better examples, because I find this rather embarrassing as grievances go.

[mad.casual]

So, no, this particular caricature has jack shit to do with "white supremacy"; and no one actually thinks even one of you, let alone all of you, looks anything like him today.

Not to mention that corn chips are inherently superior to potato chips in pretty much every way. I'm beginning to loathe the racism as an ends arguments. It's beginning to sound like the underpants gnomes plot except with 'We re-institute slavery!' or 'We ensure racial dominance!' instead of 'Profit!' as step 3.

My favorite instance of this was on NPR. A black host and a black rapper were talking about how cool it was to have Dukes of Hazzard toys, lunchboxes, etc. as a kid. Until they figured out what the flag on the roof stood for (or were conditioned to what they should think it stands for depending on your POV). My favorite line that they kept repeating was "That's how they got us." I couldn't possibly fathom what they meant. The racists in charge of The Dukes of Hazzard marketing and licensing (or even the writers!) hatched a scheme to sell Confederate battle flags to black kids?

If the white supremacists are so certain you all look like Frito Bandito or Speedy Gonzalez and waiting to pounce on you at every corner so they can kick you over the border, just take off your sombrero and put it on a cactus.

[DiegoF]

Potato chips are shite, corn chips are ambrosia (I love your flyover "Frito pie"), and tortilla chips are even better. (And now that Mexicans are everywhere, you can get fresh ones wherever you live.)

As is so often true, Charles Barkley had the best take on the Confederate symbolism thing. No one ever gave those statues two thoughts before, and anyone who says otherwise is lying. If I, personally, am offended by anything, it's the suggestion that minorities are frightened by this kind of thing. I am a man, damn it!

NPR is a cartoonish cesspool.

Those lunchboxes were awesome tho. But that rapper and host must have been privileged as fuck to even have lunchboxes.

Speedy Gonzalez was awesome, Latino kids loved him just fine, and he was a good role model for us. I liked his go getter attitude.

[BestUsedCarSales]

In all my time I'm not sure that I've met a Mexican person who is actually offended by Speedy Gonzales. I hear of it on the news, but I've yet to meet that person myself.

Though, the plural of anecdote is not data, so my point is relatively meaningless at scale.

[DiegoF]

Also, how did the Frito Bandito look exactly? He was a white-skinned character with extremely cartoonish facial features that did not suggest any particular race in either reality or stereotype--certainly not Amerindian or black. He had an enormous pencil mustache and wore conventionally exaggerated ethnic costume, which are cultural accretions that anyone of any background can adopt on the spot; how are these racial characteristics exactly? And who, precisely, no matter how insular, no matter how bigoted, actually believes that the Mexicans in his community "looks like" this particular character today--i.e. has adopted clothing and facial hair that remotely resembles the Frito Bandito's?

So, no, this particular caricature has jack shit to do with "white supremacy"; and no one actually thinks even one of you, let alone all of you, looks anything like him today. There are potential points to be made buried somewhere in your comment, but you miss them all with the kind of throw-everything-at-the-wall approach that everyone seems to take nowadays.

[Sevo]

Article: One more vague, un-falsafiable 'prediction' by the catastrophists:

"Study: Warming puts millions more at risk from river floods"
http://www.sfgate.com/news/sci.....490096.php

[Brett Bellmore]

Looking across the net, it appears to be a paraphrase from anonymous sources. IOW, he indeed probably didn't say it.

[Sevo]

I'm guessing he did, but from what I've read, it's fairly typical of a lot of private conversation among pols.
"Why should we be shocked that Hillary Clinton curses? Swearing is so cool"
https://www.theguardian.com
/commentisfree/2014/jul/21/hillary-clinton
-curses-swear-words-ed-klein

[Rhywun]

I wasn't around for LBJ but I bet he didn't get any flak for his legendary outbursts.

[DiegoF]

Even when a lot more was at stake than hurt feelings.

[Old Mexican's Speedos]

Re: Brett Bellmore,

Dicl Durbin confirmed he said those things, and he was there.

Stop pretending. Stop being a coward.

[Sevo]

"China's modern Silk Road hits political, financial hurdles"
http://www.sfgate.com/world/ar.....491469.php

The ability to navigate safely (determine longitude) meant the death of the silk road, and it's not coming back anytime soon. Regardless of interstate arguments, the Chinese habit of stopping traffic every 50km at police checkpoints means an average speed of, oh, 50km/hr on freeways, for pete's sake.

[Ecoli]

Is Haiti not a shit-hole?

[Arizona_Guy]

To paraphrase the Big Lebowski:

"You're not wrong Donald. You're just an asshole."

[Rhywun]

Which is like the worst thing ever, at least according to my friends who are #resisting themselves ragged.

[DiegoF]

Assholes the worst things ever? Well, maybe they'd help that raggedness problem if they'd just stop #resisting.

[Arizona_Guy]

#resist is mostly selective outrage and good old fashioned partisan hackery.

[Leader Desslok]

I thought the big take away quote from The Big Lebowski was "This is isn't Vietnam, there are rules here".

[mad.casual]

"Yeah, well, you know... that's just like... your opinion man."

[DiegoF]

With what authority do you proclaim who's welcome in America and who's not.

Presumably that with which he was given by the Constitution and Congress, and that which the latter two was given by principles of international law as old as civilization itself, Mr. Fox, you self-righteous fuck.
.
The attitude that the Mexican government adopts with us with respect to our own immigration policy is utterly stupefying. Where the fuck did the Mexicans ever get it remotely in their heads to talk to us this way? It's not just Fox. It's not just Trump. It's been sitting presidentes, adopting this very same unfathomable attitude for ages. It's been incredibly refreshing to see someone finally tell them to go fuck themselves. If a New York off-the-boat Latino can feel this way, is there any wonder America did?

[BestUsedCarSales]

The attitude that the Mexican government adopts with us with respect to our own immigration policy is utterly stupefying.

Yeah, even as a pretty open-border guy I think it's pretty damn hypocritical of Mexico. But even if Mexico has many good things about it, it's government is not particularly one.

Where the fuck did the Mexicans ever get it remotely in their heads to talk to us this way?

I don't understand this point though. Why wouldn't they? This reads like a "How dare they not know their betters!" type statement. But I don't believe that's what you actually mean so I'm kind of confused.

[mad.casual]

I don't understand this point though. Why wouldn't they? This reads like a "How dare they not know their betters!" type statement. But I don't believe that's what you actually mean so I'm kind of confused.

I took this as (and I may be reading a little bit much into it but) you wouldn't walk into France, Canada, Germany, England, Mexico, China, N. Korea, S. Korea, etc. illegally and just insist that you be branded a legal migrant or even granted amnesty full-class citizenship or that they (continually) carve out exceptions for you or your relatives. Even if you did do it in those countries, how do you possibly fabricate this notion from what's written in the Constitution (there is no US-Mexico analogue to the EU)?

[DiegoF]

http://reason.com/blog/2018/01.....nt_7092126

[Brandybuck]

""French feminists tell American counterparts to chill out.""

Because French feminists know better than American feminists, that the real problems are males that are the right of the far left. The witchhunt against rapists needs to stop and be replaced with a more nuanced view that asks whether the rapist is woke or not.

I'm serious. Weinstein was a rapist in every sense of the word. He was powerful man in a hierarchical subculture that used that power to prey upon the weak in the lower strata. Moreover, it was an open secret what he was doing and all the Hollywood feminists studiously avoided noticing it. Much easier to sweep the damaged victims down the gutter. And Weinstein was just one of many.

Just a year ago feminists where shitting their pants over sex without written consent forms. Now they can't even muster up the courage to ask why Franken still hasn't resigned.

[A Cynic's Guide to Zen]

"I have in my hands a list!"

Modern day McCuntyism

[Ron]

everyone on capital hill uses that language to refer to the known shithole countries its just that its TRUUUUUUUMP

[Ecoli]

I want a show of hands. How many of you want to emigrate to Haiti? Zimbabwe? Republic on Congo? North Korea?

[Bacon-Magic glib reasonoid]

(Same amount of hands raise for "How many socialists want to move to Venezuela, Cuba...etc")

[Ecoli]

I want to emigrate to Venezuela with a suitcase full of toilet paper. I will be the richest guy in the country, perhaps the solution to their shit-holiness.

[DiegoF]

Why did you pick the far better of the two Congos as your example?

[Ecoli]

I am magnanimous.

[lap83]

I will totally do it if Trump wins re-election! /annoying celebrity

[Eric]

You're trying to move the goalposts. Pretty much everyone agrees that those places are horrible. But it's Trump's simplistic view of the world that somehow mixes up the country and the person. At one point, most of our ancestors escaped a "shithole" to better their lives here.

[Unlabelable MJGreen]

durrrrrrrr

[BestUsedCarSales]

If Mexico counts I have looked at moving there for work.

[operagost]

Vicente Fox is a dope, and anyone who looks to him for insight is a dope. He presided over the continued collapse of what will eventually become a failed state. How the hell can you claim to be a statesman when your own citizens flee your country in droves? Under what authority does he presume to tell us what our immigration policy should be? He doesn't see the obvious irony in demanding the USA accept unlimited refugees from failed narco states like Mexico?

[lap83]

I was just thinking about Mike Pence's personal policy with not eating dinner alone with women who aren't his wife. Everyone made fun of him but that was before all this #metoo stuff. Does anyone else think it's pretty shrewd of him now?