Joe Biden

Joe Biden Says All Drunk Sex Is Rape: 'It's Rape. It's Rape. It's Rape.' It's Not, Though.

The former vice president doesn't even know what the Department of Justice's definition of rape is.

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VP Biden
Saquan Stimpson/ZUMA Press/Newscom

Former Vice President Joe Biden recently talked to Teen Vogue about his efforts to reduce sexual assault on campus via the federal government's "It's On Us" initiative, which encourages bystanders to intervene at college parties if they suspect a woman is about to be raped.

But Biden is hopelessly confused about the definition of sexual assault—which he claims impacts as many as 1-in-5 female college students. Consider the following startling assertion.

"If a young woman is drunk, SHE CANNOT CONSENT," said Biden. "She cannot consent, and it's rape. It's rape. It's rape. It's rape."

It's not. (It's not, it's not, it's not.) People who are drunk are generally capable of giving consent, unless they have consumed enough alcohol to render them unconscious. The Department of Justice defines alcohol-induced rape as a situation that arises from a state of incapacitation. If a young woman is drunk to the point where she passes out, then she cannot give consent. But people who consume too many drinks to drive home are nevertheless still able to have sex.

There are situations, of course, where drunk sex is rape. Some people who consume too much alcohol enter a sort of sleep-walking state where they are actually black-out drunk but appear lucid to observers. (For more on the difficulties of ensuring consent at such times, check out this Fusion article.)

But Biden implicitly suggested that all drunk sex is rape. What's fascinating about this opinion is that practically no one believes it to be true. It doesn't work, quite obviously, in practice. Drunk couples have sex all the time, and no one believes that these encounters automatically constitute rape. I doubt seriously that most people, or even many people, think cultural norms should be revised so that sex is always off the table the second that alcohol enters the mix. I doubt that even Biden himself thinks this.

And yet the former vice president is proud of the work the Education Department has done to confuse college students about sex and consent. In the interview with Teen Vogue, he expressed concern that the new secretary of education, Betsy DeVos, might reverse the Office for Civil Rights' Obama-era Title IX guidance, which encouraged university administrators to presume that accused males were guilty of sexual misconduct.

"Let me tell you, it bothers me most if Secretary DeVos is going to really dumb down Title IX enforcement," said Biden. "The real message, the real frightening message you're going to send out is, our culture says it's OK."

But what does it say about our culture if the vice president of the United States—the foremost political advocate of policy changes relating to sexual assault on campus—doesn't even know what the definition of rape is?

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102 responses to “Joe Biden Says All Drunk Sex Is Rape: 'It's Rape. It's Rape. It's Rape.' It's Not, Though.

  1. Going for a twofer today, eh Robby?

  2. The most important thing for males in college to know is that regret = rape.

    1. FEMALE regret = rape! Male regret is of NO consequence, directly… But when male regret leads to female regret, NOW we have female regret, which is called “rape of the female”. “Rape of the male” does not exist!

      (Two equally drunken people having sex = rape of the female, automatically).

      Hey wait a minute… Drunken females cannot consent, but drunken males can? And “the man” (the Powers that Be) define and enforce this “men can, women cannot” rule here? Is this kinda SEXIST maybe?!?!?!

      1. Oh come on you know you screamed rape when you woke up next to that handsome drama major you made eyes at after 15 Coors light..Or at least “no homo”

    2. FEMALE regret = rape! Male regret is of NO consequence, directly… But when male regret leads to female regret, NOW we have female regret, which is called “rape of the female”. “Rape of the male” does not exist!

      (Two equally drunken people having sex = rape of the female, automatically).

      Hey wait a minute… Drunken females cannot consent, but drunken males can? And “the man” (the Powers that Be) define and enforce this “men can, women cannot” rule here? Is this kinda SEXIST maybe?!?!?!

  3. “Of course, Ol’ Diamond Joe never had to resort to rape to get me some primo trim…”

    1. And Old Aarfy never paid for it in his life.

  4. I’ll tell you what is rape. When a young woman has landed a man and he’s promised to change to have sex with her but he is incapable of changing and the young woman gives up her flower and throws her entire life away waiting for this man to change but he can’t or won’t and had no intention of ever leaving his wife and now the young woman isn’t so young anymore and her options are dwindling rapidly.

    Am I right, ladies?

    1. Cluestick for the ladies: Men don’t change. Oh, you might be able to train them to drop the toilet seat, but jerks and assholes are always jerks and assholes.

      Cluestick for the guys: Ditto for women. Once a slut always a slut. Once a nag always a nag.

      1. I disagree completely, Professor Preconception, and one of our nation’s greatest heroes disagrees as well: “What I’m trying to say, is that if I can change, and you can change, everybody can change!”

      2. Clarification: both men and women can change, but if you go into a relationship expecting change, you’re the asshole.

      3. Also, Cluestick is what i call my penis.

      4. Pretty much, Brandybuck.

    2. Speaking from experience, eh Eugene?

      1. They always try to change me.

        1. Whenever I poop my diapers, NO ONE wants to change ME!!!

          Won’t someone PLEASE change ME??!?

    3. . . . When a young woman has landed a man and he’s promised to change to have sex with her but he is incapable of changing . . .

      Yup. Sounds like “rape by deception”…

  5. But what does it say about our culture if the vice president of the United States?the foremost political advocate of policy changes relating to sexual assault on campus?doesn’t even know what the definition of rape is?

    That our culture is fucking stupid?

  6. If she’s too drunk to consent, then he’s to drunk to be culpable.

    1. Exactly. The fuck is wrong with these people?

    2. nope, the accursed male is always guilty. It’s subtext of the woman being equal to the man.

      1. At a certain point the male will no longer be able to distinguish right from wrong. But that also happens to be the point at which “it” stops working.

  7. Former Vice President Joe Biden recently talked to Teen Vogue

    Back in my day teen magazines were all about winning dream dates with heartthrobs.

  8. I doubt seriously that most people, or even many people, think cultural norms should be revised so that sex is always off the table the second that alcohol enters the mix.

    Mrs. Casual and I always attain affirmative consent from alcohol before it enters the mix.

    1. I wonder how many of us then are “children of rape”.

  9. Hey, if anyone knows from sexual assault, it’s Creepy Joe Biden.

    1. Exactly — all his gropes and perversions would get him booted from half the campuses in the country.

    2. Stand up and take a bow.

    3. Uncle Joe is just Biden his time.

  10. I get that Reason thinks that articles like this will help them rope in college age males- but no one wants to think of themself as someone who needs a girl with drastically lowered inhibitions to have any chance of relieving their blue balls.

    Politics like anything behavioral is aspirational.

    1. You can say that again. I’ve never ever seen guys try to get chicks drunk so they could have sex. Never.

    2. but no one wants to think of themself as someone who needs a girl with drastically lowered inhibitions to have any chance of relieving their blue balls.

      I think that what you want to say there is that no one wants other people to think of them as someone who needs a girl with lowered inhibitions to get laid.
      The fact is that people use alcohol as a social lubricant. It makes it easier for men and women to get into situations where casual sex might happen. And both men and women get into those situations on purpose all the time.

  11. Some people who consume too much alcohol enter a sort of sleep-walking state where they are actually black-out drunk but appear lucid to observers.

    The fact that somebody drinks enough to interfere with memory in the morning doesn’t necessarily mean that they were incapacitated the night before. If a person is conscious, lucid, and not stumbling around, they’re not incapacitated — regardless of whether or not they remember all of what they did the next day (and let’s not get into how convenient claims of blacking out can be for people who have done something highly embarrassing or that they would rather not be held responsible for).

    1. Yeah, I’m with you on that one. If someone is conscious and reasonably lucid and saying “I want you to fuck me”, that’s consent, whether or not they remember in the morning. You have to draw the line at incapacitated.

      If you are someone who has blackouts and does stuff you regret a lot when drinking, you probably shouldn’t drink. That doesn’t mean all the people you bang raped you.

      1. “If you are someone who has blackouts and does stuff you regret a lot when drinking, you probably shouldn’t drink. ”

        Now you are blaming the victim and want to control their lives, you monster!

    2. But if a guy gets drunk and punches his girlfriend, it’s assault.

    1. RAPE was my nickname college, because I was always very witty.

      1. I’m trying to make a reference to the Kendrick Lamar album, not that any of you honkies would pick up on it.

        1. Kendrick Lamar? I heard of that dude.

        2. Hip-hop died with Big Pun, who is in heaven wearing silk gold pajamas and smoking havanas, drinking Don P and thinking beyond deeper than Ghandi, while he’s in his Diamante, counting his G’s.

      2. Hi RAPE, nice to meet me.

  12. “If a young woman is drunk, SHE CANNOT CONSENT,” said Biden. “She cannot consent, and it’s rape. It’s rape. It’s rape. It’s rape.”

    How is he not pilloried by feminists for essentially saying that women have no agency when they are drunk but men do?

    1. Because that’s the feminist line?

      1. Is it really though? I mean, if you asked a feminist point-blank whether “identical circumstance X” creates “different result Y” merely because of “different gender Z,” would they agree to that premise?

        Or am I giving people too much credit to be principled in their arguments?

        1. …am I giving people too much credit to be principled in their arguments?

          Yes. Principals > Principles.

        2. I guess it depends on whether you’re talking about feminists or feminists. Feminists are the ones heavily pushing extreme Title IX enforcement in which sex with men involved is always rape. Feminists, on the other hand, believe that prostitution was made by the patriarchy and a woman could never do it voluntarily.

          1. There are also sex-positive feminists who think that it’s a woman’s choice if she wants to sell sexual services. But I guess they are the outcasts at this point.

            1. Yeah, they aren’t real feminists.

            2. There’s basically no such thing as a sex positive feminist. Most who identify as such still support imprisoning men who but sex and all this title ix bullshit.

              Most feminists will tell you they are sex positive, but the few who actually are – a la Camille Paglia – are outcasts to other feminists and regarded by them as anti feminists.

              ‘Sex positive feminist’ is like ‘libertarian socialist.’

      2. I thought it was “all PIV sex is rape”…

    2. Victim Status >> Agency

    3. Victim Status >> Agency

      1. Squirrelllzzz >>> Everything

  13. “Implicitly”?
    That sure as hell looks like an explicit assertion to me.

  14. Off, but slightly lightly on topic, and re-posting from the weekend because it sickens me: Forced catheterization.

    Having sex after a few drinks = rape, a cop holding your penis while a doctor shoves a catheter down it, not rape.

    1. Today we learn that Crusty got forcibly catheterized and the catheter broke.

        1. I didn’t mean to imply that your forcible catheterization was involuntary.

    2. A three-year-old because he wasn’t potty trained.

      1. I’m kinda astounded one drug arrest didn’t turn into a handful of murders.

        If this happened to us and I vowed vengeance to my wife, she’d be vehemently opposed to me killing the first perpetrator. After that, she’d just want me to make sure I got them all.

        1. I’d put most of it on the judge who authorized it. And the nurse who did it. The cops I expect this shit from, which doesn’t excuse what they did either of course.

          I wouldn’t hold it against someone who took revenge for something like this. But if he wants to continue living, I think he made the right choice in not doing so.

    3. It may be rape (though I’d question whether it’s really accurate to describe any non-consensual penis touching as rape, is it really different in kind from a forced blood draw?), but with a warrant, it’s probably legal rape.

      I really think that to search the insides of someone’s body should require much stronger standards of evidence and much more compelling necessity than an ordinary search warrant does.

  15. It’s rape. It’s rape. It’s rape.”
    It’s not. (It’s not, it’s not, it’s not.)

    +1 Gertrude Stein sick-burn

    I doubt seriously that most people, or even many people, think cultural norms should be revised

    *unless it involves pretending boys are girls / girls are boys, of course. in those cases, an artificially-imposed consensus is mandatory.

    In the interview with Teen Vogue

    …. i feel like there was some enormous opportunity missed here, where the former vp bemoans “Dumbing Down”… via the most dumbed-down form of young-adult faux-journalism yet devised by manhumankind*…

    (apologies to Vox, Buzzfeed =they just need more Quizzes, and ’76 ways your dude isn’t that into you’)

    I mean he actually starts the sentence with a fear that things are going to be ‘dumbed down’…. and ends it with our culture says….“”. Because the Department of Education are actually the arbiters of “our culture”, natch.

    1. Would you feel better if i told you that Robby was wearing a bow tie and a snazzy sportcoat when he wrote this piece?

      1. What exactly is that relevant to?

        1. Relevant? I’m sorry, i thought this was Hit’n’Run.

          1. retarded non-sequiturs aren’t mandatory.

            if you were replying to something i said, what exactly was it?

            1. Lighten up, Francis. Retarded non-sequiturs may not be mandatory but they do pass the time.

              1. Maybe i’m expecting too much.

                1. ARE YOU NOT AMUSED?

                  1. I thought the Teen Vogue-being-treated-seriously-thing was very amusing. hence my remark above.

                    i wish they had comments; at least to discover what their readship’s reaction to Uncle Joe’s wokeness might be.

            2. So, only mandatory responses are permitted.

              Slaver

    2. I doubt seriously that most people, or even many people, think cultural norms should be revised
      *unless it involves pretending boys are girls / girls are boys, of course. in those cases, an artificially-imposed consensus is mandatory.

      Are you trying to win an award for arguing with out-of-context quotes? Because I think you’ll be more successful at that on The Other Site.

      1. there’s no argument. I was simply pointing out that appeals to “Cultural Norms” seem to be made when convenient, and dispensed when inconvenient.

  16. Double-barrel Joe strikes again. I kinda want him to run for president in 2020. For the lulz, of course.

    1. Who needs red wine when you’ve got those fake teeth, hairplugs, and that winning personality working for you, am I right?

  17. I’m assuming when the two shriveled brain cells in Biden’s head accidentally clack together, he also believes that if a woman and a man are drunk and they both engage in sexy time, that the woman was raped, not the man.

  18. Oh, great, now I’m a rape baby.

  19. “Drunk couples have sex all the time, and no one believes that these encounters automatically constitute rape.”

    This is observably incorrect. Lots and lots and lots of people believe that all drunk sex constitute rape.

    1. I really don’t think that very many people actually believe that. It’s just too absurd on its face. Lots of people say it, but I don’t think most have really thought it through (Biden being a prime example). I have yet to encounter anyone who has claimed that if a couple with an established relationship gets drunk and has sex, a rape happened.

  20. If I’m drunk and ejaculate, can I still accuse her of rape?

  21. Does that mean if a drunk chick drives a car and kills someone, she didn’t consent to driving!

    1. There’s a 99% chance some guy got her drunk. It’s always a guy.

  22. Joe “Warning Shot” Biden can be assumed to be speaking foolishness if he is … talking.

  23. If a woman is drunk when she gives someone money, is it they? If a woman gets a cab while drunk? No? Then drunk see isn’t rape. Drunk people can legally consent to everything else, they can consent toward, just like drunk men can.

    1. *theft, not they, in first sentence.

  24. It’s rape. It’s rape. It’s rape.

    I hope Joe Biden never has a stroke, because no one is going to be able to tell.

  25. It’s rape. It’s rape. It’s rape.

    I hope Joe Biden never has a stroke, because no one is going to be able to tell.

  26. …And it’s rape. It’s rape. It’s rape. It’s rape.

    I hope Joe Biden never has a stroke, because no one is going to be able to tell.

    1. What gave you the idea that he has not had a stroke?

  27. The legal assertions here do not seem to be correct. For example, in CA, a defendant is guilty of “Rape of Intoxicated Woman or Spouse” where

    I. The defendant had sexual intercourse with a woman; 2. He and the woman were (not married/marNed) to each other at the time of the intercourse 3. The effect of (a/an) (intoxicating /anesthetic/controlled) substance prevented the woman from resisting, AND 4. The defendant knew or reasonably should have known that the effect of (a/an) (intoxicating/anesthetic/controlled) substance prevented the woman from resisting. … A person is presented from resisting if he or she is so intoxicated that he or she cannot give legal consent. In order to give legal consent, a person must be able to exercise reasonable judgment. In other words, the person must be able to understand and weigh the physical nature of the act, its moral character, and probable consequences.” CALCRIM 1001 (Note: CALCRIM = the official criminal jury instructions).

    That is a far cry from being unconscious, as the article asserts.

    1. Interesting. The other thing I don’t entirely understand is that another report I read about Biden’s talk is that he said “dead drunk.” Drunk is one thing, but dead drunk could be taken as a synonym for incapacitated.

  28. Memo to Unca Joe: Title IX enforcement is dumbed down today. With any luck at all Ms DeVos will return Title IX enforcement to the realm of the rational

  29. Since this is Ask-a-Looter talk radio, howcum only young women? Suppose a couple of flower children from Haight-Ashbury days want to split a bottle of wine and get nekkid, does Democratic Hopeful Biden then swear out a warrant for the SWAT team to kick in their door, shoot the dog, club and spray bystanders while dragging the miscreants off to jail or the morgue? What if an older couple shares a reefer or a hit of acid? Howcum only young people are automatically liable to beatings and arrest in the looter ideology of Democratic Party politicians?

    What Biden clearly wants is the Republican ideal of raising the age of consent to 40.

  30. So the Democratic party policy is that females, and only females, are incapable of ingesting alcohol and remaining a functioning human being? Men can handle alcohol, and women can’t? But, somehow, only at college?
    Say it ain’t so, Joe!

  31. At my age I’m more likely to break a hip than have drunken casual sex. As opposed to sober formal sex which requires a parliamentarian to enforce Roberts Rules and a transcript of the proceedings.

  32. Little tip for the author from an ACTUAL lawyer? Never opine on legal matters again. You suck at it. You write. “People who are drunk are generally capable of giving consent, unless they have consumed enough alcohol to render them unconscious” .

    Dead wrong.

    The law has LONG recognized that . There is a point of intoxication, from the waking fugue state you assert, after which which you are not legally responsible for your actions and cannot be said to give meaningful consent. Far For instance, a contract signed in such a state will not be enforced by a court. When this point is reached is usually determined after the fact by the “totality of the evidence” . If you have sex with someone in this state, they too cannot be said to have consented either. Guess what “unconsenting to sexual intercourse” defines?

    Here’s a handy guide to intoxication and consent: if she wouldn’t fuck you when she was sober, don’t wait till she’s drunk to take shit at her. Even if you aren’t a rapist you are a predatory asshole and an utterly pathetic loser if your game is so bad you have no shot at a unaltered woman

  33. Joe Biden is, and always has been, a total, fucking idiot. I think he’d make a really good candidate — next go ’round — for the Democratic nomination for President. Yeah! Old Joe against The Donald …. that ought to be the easiest victory Trump ever has.

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