Trump Accuses Obama of Wiretapping Him; 7 in 10 Americans Say U.S. Losing 'National Identity'; Pro-Trump, Anti-Trump Protesters Clash in Berkeley: A.M. Links

• 

  White House

  The FBI reportedly asked the Department of Justice to refute claims President Trump made on Twitter about President Obama wiretapping Trump Tower.

• Seven in 10 Americans say the United States is losing its "national identity," according to a new Associated Press poll.
• Anti-Trump protesters clashed with pro-Trump protesters in Berkeley and at least ten people were arrested.
• Lawmakers in California have filed FOIA requests for Immigration and Customs Enforcement activities in the state.
• A Sikh man in Washington was shot by someone who reportedly told him to "go back to his country"—the third such attack in the last 10 days.
• Turkey President Recep Erdogan said Germany was acting like the Nazi regime after the government canceled local pro-Erdogan rallies.
• North Korea fired more missiles into the ocean, with three landing in Japanese waters.

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

The FBI reportedly asked the Department of Justice to refute claims President Trump made on Twitter about President Obama wiretapping Trump Tower.

This has got to be the most boring palace intrigue yet.

[Rufus The Monocled]

Hello.

[Jerryskids]

It's a giant turd you gotta poke through to find one little golden kernel of truth. Which of course will triumphally be waved aloft as proof indisputable of all charges. The FBI and the Treasury Department got an order to look at server traffic in and out of Trump Tower investigating possible financial misdealing with Russian banks? Yep, Obama personally tapped Trump's personal phone. As if you can't just follow Trump's twitter feed and get the exact same information.

[Domestic Dissident]

Oh yeah, and of course it's just an amazing fucking coincidence that the two FISA requests just happened to come after it was clear Trump was the republican candidate for president, and that one of the targets of the request was his original campaign manager.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

What FISA requests?

[Domestic Dissident]

Can't you do some research on your own so that you have some clue of what's going on in the world?

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Sorry, infowars.com is blocked by the sanity filter in my brain.

[Domestic Dissident]

It was reported on by your beloved New York Times.

Feel free to piss off though, you horse's ass.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Oh yeah, because I make fun of your idol, I must love the NYC. Good one, molestic pissident.

[Ron]

its interesting that on NBC this morning the former big wigs were denying there were FISA request when a simple google shows that there were successful FISA request, but they were for the campaign staff only but Trump was the lead of the Campaign so yea they did.

[Fascist loofa-faced shitgibbon]

"Google shows...'

What does that mean?

[DanO.]

When One President Smears Another

Trump had no evidence on Saturday morning when he smeared his predecessor, President Barack Obama, accusing him of ordering that Trump Tower phones be tapped during the 2016 campaign. Otherwise, the White House would not be scrambling to find out if what he said is true.

Just contemplate the recklessness ? the sheer indifference to truth and the moral authority of the American presidency ? revealed here: one president baselessly charging criminality by another, all in a childish Twitter rampage.

The Times reported on Sunday that the F.B.I. director, James Comey, was so alarmed by Mr. Trump's fact-free claim ? which implicitly accused the F.B.I. of breaking the law by wiretapping an American citizen at a president's behest ? that he was asking the Justice Department to publicly call it false. In other words, the F.B.I. director was demanding that Justice officially declare the president to be misleading the public.

You know it's getting bad when we can't even trust Mark Levin and Breitbart.
https://tinyurl.com/jchswmd

[Rufus The Monocled]

The mendaciousness of progressives is astonishing.

THEIR ENTIRE CAMPAIGN WAS BUT ABOUT SMEARING TRUMP WITH UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS.

The Russian hacking thing, in addition to being unsubstantiated, is MORE dangerous because it agitates for confrontation NEEDLESSLY.

[DanO.]

UNSUBSTANTIATED CLAIMS

He isn't a conspiracy-theorizing, narcissistic, thin-skinned, petty, vindictive, delusional-paranoiac with a too-long red tie that points directly at his penis?

[Rufus The Monocled]

That's not nice to talk about Obama that way.

[Fist of Etiquette]

His tie was blue.

[Zeb]

And his penis isn't where you would think.

[Citizen X - #6]

It's in a Ziploc baggie in Michelle's purse.

[$park? don't care bout yo mom]

Ziploc baggie? Now that's classy.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

I thought ziplocs were only for storing daily supplies of lube.

[Careless]

President Missile?

[Zeb]

Well, he is most of those things. I guess the democrats finally got the adversary they deserve.

[Red Rocks Baiting n Inciting]

The amusing thing about this particular scandal is 1) There were newspaper articles just last week that were practically bragging about how the Obama administration spread out reports about Trump-Russia connections throughout the various intelligence agencies, and 2) we've known since 2013 that the US government is spying on every US citizen already--it's not like devoting a little more effort to Trump would be considered out of bounds by them.

What was even better was the "Obama spox" passive-voiced denial, which brought up fond memories of his claims that he never learned about anything scandalous in this administration until he read about it in the morning paper.

[Red Rocks Baiting n Inciting]

Does that mean Obama actually ordered a wiretap of Trump's phone or that one even took place? No. What this is emblematic of, though, is the deep state's "palace coup"-style tactics against him--it's not like these guys are making any secret of the fact that they're trying to undermine his administration with neo-McCarthyite tactics, using only the flimsiest of evidence to make their case. Look how desperately goofs like Memory Hole latched onto the Sessions-ambassador meeting as something completely out of bounds, despite the fact that Senators meeting with foreign ambassadors is a relatively common occurrence. Or the "Russians hacked the election!!" line that was fed by reports that didn't reveal much of anything in the way of proof that the Russian government had leaked the DNC and Podesta emails to Wikileaks.

[Fascist loofa-faced shitgibbon]

"The Times reported on Sunday that the F.B.I. director, James Comey, was so alarmed by Mr. Trump's fact-free claim "

The Times is one of the news agencies that reported the wire-tapping of Trump. Now they are referring to such a report as fact-free. Bizarre.

[Bee Tagger]

Anti-Trump protesters clashed with pro-Trump protesters in Berkeley.

That's what you get when you have a flag with 2 primary colors on it.

[Rich]

Indeed.

[C. S. P. Schofield]

Actually, the story seems to suss out to "Anti-Trump thugs attack Pro-Trump rally, get arrested."

[Fist of Etiquette]

North Korea fired more missiles into the ocean, with three landing in Japanese waters.

Japan never even thought about using missiles to hunt whales.

[$park? don't care bout yo mom]

Fuck you darphin! And fuck you whare!

[ThomasD]

So lacist.

[Bee Tagger]

Seven in ten Americans say the United States is losing its "national identity," according to a new Associated Press poll.

It is going to have a hard time voting if it doesn't find that national identity.

[Rich]

Nice!

[Rhywun]

These polls are getting more abstract every day.

[Deep Lurker]

I blame "multiculturalism." It's a meme-weapon, a pernicious idea deliberately designed and deployed to destroy the national identities of wealthy western nations.

The old immigration deal was that immigrants either assimilate or else peaceably and cheerfully accept a second-class status. In return, the unassimilated get tolerated, and the assimilated get adopted as full members of the American Tribe. When it worked, it made America great (to coin a phrase). When it broke down, it gave us some major headaches, with the long-time refusal to accept blacks as full members of the American Tribe being perhaps the worst of these.

In any case, the deal was based on the old wisdom of si fueris Romae, Romano vivito more; si fueris alibi, vivito sicut ibi ("if in Rome, live in the Roman way; if you are elsewhere, live as they do there.") But "multiculturalism" took a wrecking ball to the deal. And now people are finally responding: "If the deal is off, then the deal is off." It's not the best response - that would be to drive a stake through multiculturalism and bury it at a crossroads - but it's an understandable response.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Fuck off, slaver. I will adopt whatever culture I want.

[Careless]

I will adopt whatever culture I want.

You realize that's exactly how you lose a national identity, right? I mean, I'm not telling you no to do it, but I'm saying you're not disagreeing with him

[Chipper Morning Wood]

I don't recognize the validity of that concept.

[Red Rocks Baiting n Inciting]

I don't recognize the validity of that concept.

Oh please. Try practicing concepts like respect for property rights or the right to bear arms in your average third-world shithole. You really think these things, and their preservation, aren't a product of culture or identity?

"I DO WHAT WANT" sounds cute on South Park. It doesn't really apply to the real world, which is why anarchists are viewed as a joke.

[Marty Feldman's Eyes]

The old immigration deal was that immigrants either assimilate or else peaceably and cheerfully accept a second-class status. In return, the unassimilated get tolerated, and the assimilated get adopted as full members of the American Tribe.

Not really, the old immigration deal was that first generation was ghettoed, second generation transitioned and by third generation no one can tell the difference except for what they think of as their childhood comfort food. And perhaps the color of their skin.

The idea that back in the day people came here and immediately discarded the way they dressed and learned english as fast as they could is a myth. Some did, some didn't.

Also, maybe that applies in Europe, where there actually are nations (and where, say, the French seemed to have done their level best to not integrate newcomers), but the U.S. was never a nation in the proper sense. Our national identity is made up of whatever people want it to be, and that makes it not really national- Tennessee compared to Minnesota, or Seattle compared to Spokane might as well be different countries.

[Rhywun]

Seattle compared to Spokane might as well be different countries

This is absurd. Seattle and Spokane have far more in common than each does with any other country. A visit abroad will make that immediately obvious.

[Marty Feldman's Eyes]

Yeah, maybe bad example. I'll try again- "Seattle has more in common with Vancouver than it does with St. Maries, ID"

[Azathoth!!]

Yeah, that's right--because in Tennesee the shop at Target--but in Minnesota, they shop in Target. Totally different. Why, McDonalds in Spokane has 'egg mcmuffins'--but in Seattle they're 'egg mcmuffins'. See the difference?

It is to the credit of the ideals of the United States that America, as vast as it is, has managed to create an overarching culture that IS so cohesive out of so many disparate parts.

It is sad that so many are so blind to this today.

But that, alas, has always been the goal of the multiculturalists. Because in voluntary unity, there is a strength greater than anything that's come before.

And they desperately want to take that from us.

[Not a True MJG]

You should write a history book.

[Marty Feldman's Eyes]

The Onion is jealous they didn't come up with that one before you did.

[Kauzig Kristen]

Happy Day of the Dude. Abide.

[Crusty Juggler - #2]

I shall pee on a rug to celebrate.

[Kristen Abides]

It's not a celebration if it's something you do every day!

[Fist of Etiquette]

That rug really tied the day together, did it not?

[Not a True MJG]

Fuckin' A.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

"That rope really tied the date together." - Crusty

[Not a True MJG]

No.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Turkey President Recep Erdogan said Germany was acting like the Nazi regime after the government canceled local pro-Erdogan rallies.

You know who else acted like a Nazi regime?

[DanO.]

Who?

[Kristen Abides]

Nazarbayev?

[Rich]

Prince Harry?

[Get To Da Chippah]

Every Republican administration?

[$park? don't care bout yo mom]

My wife?

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Hawt.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

The nail salon lady?
"Cucumber water for customer only!"

[Rich]

The FBI made the request because such wiretapping would be illegal, since the President cannot just order the eavesdropping of a U.S. citizen's phones

"It's not illegal if the president does it."

[DanO.]

Ever heard of Nixon?

[Rich]

Wasn't that a camera brand or something?

[DanO.]

You're thinking of Ivanka.

[Kristen Abides]

fa?ce?tious
f??s?SH?s
adjective
treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Interesting factoid: facetious is one of only two words that has all the vowels in alphabetical order.

[CPRM]

but never 'y'

[Citizen X - #6]

You responded facetiously.

[Fascist loofa-faced shitgibbon]

Why is a wire-tap needed when every bit of communication is captured and saved already?

[Ship of Theseus]

Because it's not.

[Citizen X - #6]

Anti-Trump protesters clashed with pro-Trump protesters in Berkeley and at least ten people were arrested.

Pro-Trump protesters in Berkeley? Talk about being out of your element. You'd be more likely to find SugarFree in church, or Warty not doing squats, or Mikey reading.

[Domestic Dissident]

I read more in a month than you probably do in a year, at least as long as we're not counting Playgirl magazine.

[Citizen X - #6]

Not true, but it takes you a whole month to get through The Cat in the Hat? Keep working at it, little guy, you'll get there. Did you know there's a sequel?

[Domestic Dissident]

You're way out of your league son. Keep entertaining me though. It's part of the reason why I stick around at this dump.

[Citizen X - #6]

I know i'm out of my league, but sometimes it's diverting to slum it down here in the single-digit-IQs with you.

[Citizen X - #6]

For real, though, does that mean that you'll go away if i stop reminding you how stupid you are? Because that is a hell of a tempting offer.

[Domestic Dissident]

The way things are going around here, in a few more months the only ones left here will be you two and three or four other cucks perpetually circle-jerking each other.

[$park? don't care bout yo mom]

They didn't let you in at coolkidstable.com, did they? Poor little guy.

[American Memer]

Why do the cool kids need a stable?

[Citizen X - #6]

Was that a yes? Because i'm serious. You leaving would be a decent first step towards Hit'n'Run recovering a measure of its former okay-ness.

[$park? don't care bout yo mom]

Why Mikey will never leave.

[$park? don't care bout yo mom]

Donald Trump, is that you?

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Dude, the Cat In the Hat is a deep book that describes the apprenticeship process in the Western esoteric tradition.

[Citizen X - #6]

Okay, but Mikey's lips still move when he reads it.

[DanO.]

Or Ken S. limiting a response to fewer than 500 words.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Unpossible!

[Fist of Etiquette]

A Sikh man in Washington was shot by someone who reportedly told him to "go back to his country"?the third such attack in the last 10 days.

Thanks a lot, Heller decision.

[Jerryskids]

A Sikh man was shot, you say? See? I todjya Obama was lying about them Death Panels!

[Chipper Morning Wood]

This whole story is Sikh.

[Rhywun]

Adblock-blocked on their crappy website but if there's some Indian pogrom going on why hasn't the American MSM latched onto it? This is the first I'm hearing about it.

[Drave Robber]

Demand for independent Khalistan on the rise, Shikha outraged.

[Domestic Dissident]

Of course, while highlighting this story Reason naturally completely ignores the one about the guy making the threats against synagogues and Jewish organizations turning out to be an Obama-loving black radical disgraced member of the media.

[Jerryskids]

C'mon, man, don't leave us hanging! Where's Robbie's review of the new Switch? Too busy still playing it?

[Lord Rollingpin]

Oh! Good call.

[VG Zaytsev]

The FBI reportedly asked the Department of Justice to refute claims President Trump made on Twitter about President Obama wiretapping Trump Tower

Has Comey publicly made such a request, or is it still anonymous sources claiming something?
And why doesn't Comey just issue his own denial instead of asking for one from a third party?

[Domestic Dissident]

The cat is out of the bag, so it's ass-covering time now.

I can just imagine how many deep spook types were furiously going around deleting and destroying evidence over the weekend.

[Fatty Bolger]

I wonder if he's deliberately putting the DOJ in a bind.

[VG Zaytsev]

My first thought was that he knows they 'can't' disavow it since they initiated the FISA request.

My second thought was that it's bullshit since he's not quoted directly and instead it "anonymous officials" putting words in his mouth. The original,NY Times article is written deceptively to create the impression that they're quoting Comey directly when they aren't.

[MikeP2]

It's only "anonymous sources" putting words in Comey's mouth. However the NYT and others are doing every bit of wordsmithing they can to make it look like Comey himself has refuted Trump.

The fake news is appalling.

[Fascist loofa-faced shitgibbon]

"The FBI reportedly"

I'm am getting very tired of the word "reportedly", allegedly.

[Rich]

A Sikh man in Washington was shot by someone who reportedly told him to "go back to his country"?the third such attack in the last 10 days.

I suspect all of these attacks on Sikhs are by hateful morons who mistake Sikhs for "Muslim terrorists".

[spqr2008]

Yep. I think the FBI and ATF need to spend more of the money they waste tracking racist groups promoting the cultural differences between Muslim Turbans and Sikh turbans.

[Zeb]

Seems likely. Sikhs need some kind of educational campaign. Maybe "We're not Muslim, you stupid assholes!"

[Stormy Dragon]

It's literally pay to play at Mar-a-Lago

If you pay $200,000 a year to the company Donald Trump owns, you too can have access most weekends to the president and his top officials. As an alternative, your organization could cut a $150,000 check to bring in a couple of hundred people who will have a chance to schmooze with the president and cabinet officials. Foreign moguls and dignitaries welcome.

[Idle Hands]

I will consider Donald Trumps presidency a success if he ends up in pinstripes.

[KerryW]

I don't think the Yankees would be interested in him.

[Red Rocks Baiting n Inciting]

In this case, it's major corporate organizations instead of left-wing billionaires, foreign countries and Hollywood celebrities.

[Zeb]

This is going to be fun.

I have this odd suspicion that people are going to completely ignore actual questionable things like this, though, and keep on freaking out about completely stupid and/or made up shit.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

Hey, he is just being a shrewd businessman, unlike that whole Clinton Foundation pay-for-play scheme.

[Crusty Juggler - #2]

She's 17 and Needs Birth Control. Do We Turn Our Backs?

This is health care at its best, preventing diseases and averting teenage pregnancies, all while saving public money. Yet clinics like these across America are in peril because of myopic Washington politics.

Let's be clear: This isn't about the government paying for abortions. That's already mostly banned. This is about paying for birth control and cancer screenings when the provider has some connection, even a remote one, to abortions.

About two-thirds of the women and girls who come to these clinics don't have any other health care provider. They're people like Amanda Bowden, 33, who comes annually to the Maine Family Planning clinic in Augusta to get birth control pills and a checkup.

I asked her about the effort to cut funding for clinics like these, and she said: "You're not taking away abortion services. You're taking away my health care."

[Get To Da Chippah]

Make birth control pills OTC, and then fuck off.

[Red Rocks Baiting n Inciting]

Funny how this was supported by the left until Republican senator Cory Gardner proposed it in a bill, and then all of a sudden the "relationship between a doctor and their patient is sacrosanct! So many health concerns!" despite the fact that no one I asked could offer any evidence that OTC birth control was causing a health crisis for women in the countries where it was offered.

[Zeb]

And I'm sure that in quick visits to the Planned Parenthood clinic to get birth control, the doctors there do an in depth medical history and really get to know each patient so they can appropriately deal with all of those health concerns.

[Marty Feldman's Eyes]

Funny how this was supported by the left until Republican senator Cory Gardner proposed it in a bill,

That was all about the fact that if it's OTC it won't be covered by insurance.

[Red Rocks Baiting n Inciting]

That was all about the fact that if it's OTC it won't be covered by insurance

That was what the freak-out centered on, yes. Democrats were simply couching it in terms of healthcare consultation and toxicity dangers as cover.

[ThomasD]

Not necessarily. There are plenty of drug products that have both OTC and Rx Only versions - omeprazole being one example.

More specifically, with an OTC product it's not so much the drug in it, as the packaging on it (directions for use.)

If oral contraceptives get OTC status I'd expect to see a fair number of parallel product lines.

[Citizen X - #6]

That's already mostly banned.

There's a big difference between "mostly banned" and "all banned." "Mostly banned" is "slightly permitted."

[Rich]

She is 17 years old, has an alarming itch "down there"

The beginning of this article is almost SugarFree-esque.

[Citizen X - #6]

Wasn't that also the beginning of at least three Motley Crue songs?

[Karen24]

My younger son needs a name for his new heavy metal band. I'm going to suggest "Alarming Itch."*

*He plays classical guitar and has formed a band with two other students in his guitar class. So far they can't determine roles, since no one plays bass or drums. Look forward to the new trend in boy bands -- three lead guitars and a drum machine.

[Citizen X - #6]

Hey, get four more guitarists and you've got the Eagles.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I had a rough morning and I hate the fucking Eagles, man.

[Citizen X - #6]

Get the fuck outta my cab!

[Juice]

Nah, that's a name for one of those "new" "indie" bands that sound like everyone's hanging out clapping in someone's bathroom.

[Karen24]

That's a fair description of what they sound like so far. They are proof that fifteen-year-olds are too young to make any decisions and also that a group composed of three really talented kids -- they call got the highest score at UIL solo contest and are beloved of their teacher -- does not necessarily mean the band is three times as good.

[$park? don't care bout yo mom]

"You're not taking away abortion services. You're taking away my health care."

I'm sure she has an excellent reason for not paying for it herself.

[Crusty Juggler - #2]

At thirty-three years old she should.

[Meh.]

^^^ I was just logging on to say this... but also, if these clinics really cared about keeping their funding to provide healthcare to women, and if it was only "a remote connection" to abortions, wouldn't the most beneficial route to be to just cut their abortion services? It annoys me when people try to pass these abortion clinics off as the only viable source of healthcare for women.

[Not a True MJG]

Do We Turn Our Backs?

Is she hot?

"You're not taking away abortion services. You're taking away my health care."

It can be both!

[Rich]

Mysterious UFO 'the size of Jupiter crashes into sun' captured in bizarre images from Solar Observatory spacecraft

Conspiracy theorists believe the images - of huge transparent group of rings - could prove that giant extra-terrestrial spaceships exist in our solar system

and that they influenced the US presidential election.

[Rhywun]

Alien Darwin award winner

[John Titor]

Bahaha, they sourced fucking Pravda, that's hilarious (Pravda has basically embraced it's 'we were bullshit propaganda' history and now publishes a ton of crap on UFOs, cryptozoology, etc.).

[Cyto]

They can't be serious, right? This is like the WWE. Everyone knows it is a goof - and then there's a couple of borderline folks in trailer parks who can't tell the difference.

Cool diffraction artifacts though.

[Crusty Juggler - #2]

Why won't Reason cover this?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?: The (Mostly) Safe Golf Cart

The Consumer Product Safety Commission estimated that in 2015, nearly 18,000 golf cart-related injuries nationwide required emergency room treatment to people of all ages.

In 2016, The Villages had 94 rescue and emergency medical service incidents involving golf carts, with 70 involving injuries, said Edmund Cain, fire chief for The Villages' Public Safety Department. The department says it does not track fatalities and could not provide data on the nature of the injuries.

We need stronger golf cart regulations!

[Rich]

"States that are allowing golf carts on public roads are turning back the clock on 50 years of vehicle safety progress."

I have *never* seen a golf cart on a public road. Riding lawn mowers, yes.

[Citizen X - #6]

I saw a dude booking out of a parking lot onto a busy six-lane road on his Rascal.

[Rich]

"Booking out"?

*Canadian* Citizen X, eh?

[Citizen X - #6]

You take that back, Rich. You take that back right now.

[John Titor]

ONE OF US, ONE OF US, ONE OF US...

[Rich]

😎 I take it back!

[Rhywun]

So... "Canadian" is the same language used in eighties John Hughes movies?

[Crusty Juggler - #2]

Shermer, Illinois was a crazy place.

[Rhywun]

I hear there are even states that allow horse-drawn buggies on roads. We are turning back the clock on 100 years of vehicle safety progress.

[Citizen X - #6]

What's next, people walking?

[Jerryskids]

nearly 18,000 golf cart-related injuries nationwide required emergency room treatment to people of all ages.

Nearly a dozen of them did not involve alcohol.

[Crusty Juggler - #2]

Jer, it's all elderly folk and/or their grand kids driving, which is why we need better golf carts that pass rigorous government safety standards.

[The Last American Hero]

For those not in the know, The Villages is a sprawling retirement community. The notion that is it full of golf carts on "public roads" is no more odd than people that live in gated golf course communities using golf carts to get to their neighbor's house or the clubhouse.

[Mickey Rat]

What happens in The Villages stays in The Villages. You do not really want to know, anyway.

[Fascist loofa-faced shitgibbon]

M Knight Shamalamadingdong should do a documentary.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

My friend knows a lawyer whose business is nothing but golf cart accidents in the Villages.

[Crusty Juggler - #2]

Neon-Blue Wine Gives Spanish Start-Up a Regulatory Headache

"None of us really liked normal wine, which comes with too many norms, such as whether you can take it with ice or not," said Taig Mac Carthy, one of the co-founders of G?k. "So our goal was clearly to offer something to people looking for a wine that was a bit more fun and crazy. The trouble is that we are trying to revolutionize an industry that has worked for centuries without making any change ? and they control the rules of the game."

Under the European Union's oenological regulations, whatever is not specifically authorized is considered illegal ? and blue is not an approved color.

A project like that of G?k, Mr. Ben?tez said, is "a laudable corporate initiative, but you have to respect the rules of the game, and they are for everybody."

[Citizen X - #6]

such as whether you can take it with ice or not

SOMEBODY'S never been to a sorority mixer.

[Not a True MJG]

At some dinner last year, I saw (what looked like) a ~40 year old trophy wife order a glass of white, and then proceed to load it up with ice. Like, ice to the top of the glass. It was a surreal moment in my life.

[Eternal Blue Sky]

Blue is not a creative color

[Rich]

whatever is not specifically authorized is considered illegal

What could *possibly* go wrong?

[Crusty Juggler - #2]

Brexit?

[Rhywun]

The onerous EU-directed haggis regulations were not allowing more "creative" versions into the market.

[Chipper Morning Wood]

If I wanna make my haggis out of goat lungs, why is the EU standing in my way?

[Juice]

Romulan Ale? Did the crew come back to save the whales?

[Mickey Rat]

No, they apparently shot the Klingon Chancellor.

[Zeb]

Maybe if you don't like wine you should just drink something else.

[Mickey Rat]

Why do they need to call this beverage "wine"?

[VG Zaytsev]

BTW, why are people on the media having fits of outrage over the accusation of Obama's wiretapping? He wiretapped some senate offices, James Rowan of Fox and some AP reporters. For months the media have been insinuating a Trump-Russian connection based on leaked secret info from spy agencies. In one NY Times article, such information collection was even called "wiretaps".

[Cyto]

I've really been amazed at the rapidity of the self-delusion on the part of the media.

Not only were they targeted directly in the form of the AP, they have also reported on the Obama administrations months-long preparation for sabotaging the Trump administration after the handover of power. And now they feign shock that anyone would ever dare suggest that such a thing could happen. It is really weird.

Obama said Fox News was not a news organization shortly after taking office. Yet we pretend that not only did this never happen, we pretend that Trump's feud with the media is proof that he his Hitler reincarnated and it is a uniquely evil Trump thing to do that could never have happened before.

I get being opposed to Trump. Even worrying that he might be a little unhinged. But at the same time we know that other bad actors have not only been on the stage, they are openly bragging about it. I'm not sure how you can pretend that Trump is a nutty conspiracy theorist for suggesting things that Obama administration folks have been bragging about in the NYT.

[DanO.]

Is Trump Officially Insane Yet?

Mark this in your calendar: March 4th was the day the 45th President Of the United States finally went certifiably insane. It appears the "source" of the rumor that has sent Trump into a tailspin of paranoid delusion is none other than the far right hate site Breitbart.com and human boil/conservative shock jock Mark Levin. Trump's ludicrous claims will no doubt rile up his supporters who hang on his every word, but it further alienates him from the Washington establishment and every sane citizen in America. The spectacle of the President of the United States going on a completely unhinged Twitter rampage against his predecessor in the early hours of the weekend isn't just embarrassing, it is humiliating. Trump is single handedly destroying America's image around the world, and the only people who can stop him are too spineless to do their job.

http://thedailybanter.com/2017.....tap-claim/

[Rich]

the only people who can stop him are too spineless to do their job.

Maybe they're insane, too. Ever think of *that*?

[DanO.]

They know exactly what they are doing. Their eventual testimony will be riveting.

[Rich]

You mean "Under advise of counsel, I respectfully invoke my Fifth Amendment right ...."?

[DanO.]

I'll settle for that. As a start.

[Lord Rollingpin]

+1 Lois Lerner

[american socialist]

It first came about from louise mensch, the guardian and new york times about the tapping

[Marty Feldman's Eyes]

Trump is single handedly destroying America's image around the world,

Yeah, I'm sure that the victims of our Middle East Forever War thought we were just peachy, but Trump's twitter rampage is what's making them skeptical of our sterling reputation.

[Rich]

North Korea fired more missiles into the ocean, with three landing in Japanese waters.

Just wait until one of these missiles takes out a Japanese fishing boat. *Then* we'll have an international incident!

[american socialist]

Trump's claims over the weekend using media sources (he can say it wasn't classified info) have put the dems in an awkward postion

Do you?

1. Push the russian connection angle about contacts with trump which would validate the tapping claims bringing team blue into the fray as well

or

2. Bury the russian angle and collusion by saying the tapping is not true which would thus throw water on the whole russian connection fire. How can you prove the russian angle if there was no intel gathering in first place?

Especially if nothing was found in 1 if wire taps happened, that would be bad for team blue.

[Jerryskids]

Given that the NSA can potentially be "wire tapping" anybody, I'd say there's pretty good odds Trump wasn't the only candidate getting spied on. Hillary had a server-of-interest, as well as a sext-addicted acquaintance whose phone was being scrutinized by the FBI. And who knows what the CIA comes across when they're spying on the spies who are spying on us?

[Cyto]

Don't we just take it as axiomatic that the NSA is wiretapping not anybody, but everybody?

[Ken Shultz]

"The FBI reportedly asked the Department of Justice to refute claims President Trump made on Twitter about President Obama wiretapping Trump Tower."

They're obsessing about the question of whether Obama wrote an order, which is beside the point. The fact is that the FBI and CIA sent a report about the contents of the wiretapping to the White House while Obama was campaigning for Hillary Clinton.

Why were the contents of those wiretaps sent to the White House in October? Did Obama or someone else in the White House request them? Was that information shared with the Hillary Clinton campaign? Did Obama make any public references to the contents of the wiretap during the last part of the campaign?

The fact is that the FBI and NSA are specifically prohibited by name from campaigning by the Hatch Act, and there is more than enough evidence to justify an investigation into their campaign activities.

[Rich]

It's quite a mess, isn't it, Ken?

[Ken Shultz]

The intelligence services are obsessed with torpedoing Trump's attempt to coordinate foreign policy with Putin on everything from ISIS in Syria to Iran. They're defending their turf, their fiefdoms--like any bureaucracy, they don't want to share responsibilities.

Meanwhile, the military would rather invade Syria themselves. Meanwhile, Neocons like McCain would rather invade Syria themselves.

The selective leaks to the press about Sessions and Trump, the initial investigation itself during the campaign, it's always been about pulling the rug out from under Trump's attempt to coordinate with Putin like FDR coordinated with Stalin during World War II.

We've built up this gigantic intelligence infrastructure that didn't exist in the same way before 9/11. The NSA alone has some 35,000 employees now. If Trump doesn't do something to reign them in, our presidents may lose the ability to set policy without their approval.

They'll just keep raining pain on them in the form of covert investigations of the president's associates during campaigns, selective leaks to the press, etc. until the president stops doing what he's told. Trump better make an example out of somebody, or it's gonna be a long four years.

[Crusty Juggler - #2]

Plus, it's a big part of this season's plot of Homeland.

[VG Zaytsev]

We might already be there.

[VG Zaytsev]

http://thehill.com/homenews/ad.....-community

"Let me tell you, you take on the intelligence community, they have six ways from Sunday at getting back at you," Schumer told MSNBC's Rachel Maddow.

"So even for a practical, supposedly hard-nosed businessman, he's being really dumb to do this."

[spqr2008]

The correct response to this is to cut the HQ budgets of the NSA and FBI in half. That'll make them pay attention and behave better, and as a side bonus, cut the dead weight.

[Cyto]

What is funny about that quote is that Trump is simultaneously crazy for taking on the intelligence community because it is obvious that they will get him back and crazy for suggesting that the intelligence community has been used to get back at him.

I'm reminded of the famous cases of reporters like Nellie Bly going undercover in an asylum. Once inside, no behavior or words could dissuade those in charge. Everything was further proof of insanity. Such is the power of motivated reasoning.

[Griffin3]

So, Ms Maddow thinks the proper thing for a president to do is to *knuckle under* to the intelligence community's wishes? Explains a lot, it does.

[VG Zaytsev]

Hillary tweeted about a connection between Trump and "Russian Banks" in late October, which was the basis for the 2nd FISA request that was approved. Someone in Obamas administration was sharing classified info with Hillary's campaign.

http://www.thegatewaypundit.co.....-election/

[american socialist]

Yea so i am thinking the dems are going to want this buried as i don't see a good conclusion for them. I suspect it won't turn up that trump is colluding with the russians while they will be implicated for spying on him

[VG Zaytsev]

You'd think,it's the kind of story that libertarians would like be to cover, abuse of power and transparent coordination between the government and media.

But no. Doing so might upset the cocktail party circuit, so it's going to be ignored here.

[CatoTheChipper]

Let's see: does TowerGate have anything to do with pot, transsexual rights, undocumented Mexican or terrorist immigrants? No? Then it's of no interest to the Reason cocktail party circuit.

[Juice]

Problem is that Trump first acknowledged this thing over Twitter. He should have held a big press conference and said he was going to make a big announcement and launch an investigation. The MSM finds shit like that much more credible for some reason. Makes it seem official. Makes it seem real.

[Juice]

These would all be questions the MSM would ask if they weren't in the tank for the Democrats.

[John]

Protesters didn't clash in Berkeley. Pro Trump supporters were attacked. Saying the "Clashed" is like saying hippies and Hell's Angels clashed at Altamont.

http://twitchy.com/brettt-3136.....ump-rally/

This is appalling shit. Shame on reason for soft peddling it.

[american socialist]

The tolerant and loving left.

[Rich]

It doesn't help, either, that the thugs wearing black hoodies and scarves over their faces and bullying people into silence call themselves "anti-fascists," or antifa for short.

"Antifa"?

*** facepalm ***

[Rhywun]

Sort of like "inflammable" and "flammable" mean the same thing.

[Citizen X - #6]

In order to bash the fash, one must become the fash.

[VG Zaytsev]

They're facetious fascists.

[John]

If it is the case that Obama didn't use the NSA or FBI to spy on the Trump campaign, why doesn't anyone involved give a straight denial? Instead of just saying "It didn't happen", we get Clapper saying "He can deny it" and Obama saying "The Whitehouse didn't order it", ?

[Citizen X - #6]

"Let me be clear, uh, all i did was, uh, say it would be nice if someone, um, wiretapped Trump."

[Fatty Bolger]

"Who will rid me of this troublesome candidate?"

[Ken Shultz]

Even if Obama didn't order it, sending the contents of the wiretap to the White House looks like a violation of the Hatch Act.

The NSA, CIA, and FBI are all specifically banned from campaigning activities by the Hatch Act. If they sent this information to the White House while Obama was campaigning for Hillary, then their activities should be investigated regardless of whether Obama ordered the tap request.

[John]

The White House can order a FISA tap without going to the court. It also can go to the court and get a warrant. So when the White House says "it didn't order it", that technically does not rule out the possibility that it happened but was "ordered" by the FISA court not the White House. Again, if it didn't happen, why not say so in clear and certain terms instead of narrow ones?

[VG Zaytsev]

Then there's also the possibility that they are just lying about it.

[Ken Shultz]

I might even amend my statement to, "If the White House didn't order the tap, then that makes the CIA's, the NSA's, and the FBI's investigation of the Trump campaign even worse."

They repeatedly pushed for warrants to investigate the Trump campaign of their own accord--and the rubber stamp of a FISA court even shot down their first request?

Relative to the Hatch Act, that makes it even worse if they were operating without any direction from the White House.

[John]

In many ways, yes. But I don't believe for a moment the FBI and CIA did that of their own accord and without direction from the White House or at least the Lynch DOJ.

[John]

Also, every FISA application is signed off by DOJ. The FBI does not seek FISA warrants. The DOJ does.

[Ken Shultz]

My point is that there's enough to justify a full investigation of the security services.

Put some pressure on those bureaucrats, and there should be a trail of CYA memos all the way up the chain of command.

Bureaucrats don't violate the Hatch Act of their own accord without covering their asses to their superiors somehow. For goodness' sake, even Monica Lewinsky was smart enough to keep the dress.

[John]

I think there is. I worry there will not be for two reasons. First, a lot of Republicans like those services and would not want to see them damaged even if they deserved it and were doing the bidding of Democrats. Second, if Obama was spying on Trump, I wonder how many establishment Republicans knew about it and did nothing.

[VG Zaytsev]

I seam to recall several points during the campaign where the Never Trumpers claimed that some hidden info on Trump was going to be released that would kill his campaign.

One of those points was in June, after the primaries ended and before the convention.

The other was in October - with some supposedly lethal October surprise.

The FISA requests were in June and October.

Coincidence?

[Memory Hole]

Damn, we're finally getting someone here! Empower a special prosecutor. Set the truth free and lets see who's full of shit!!

[Lord Rollingpin]

Tulpa, Tulpa's full of shit.

[Griffin3]

It depends on your definition of "order it".

[C. S. P. Schofield]

Gee, Trump thinks Obama tried to stack the deck for Hillary. What a crazy guy. I mean, it's not as if Obumbles ever went outside the strict limitations of the power of his office.

Of COURSE Obama had Trumps phones tapped. That's exactly what a reasonable person would expect on Progressive to do for his chosen successor. The real story here is that in spite of every dirty trick in the Democrat playbook, Trump won the general eledtion.

Think about that. And then consider; how big a landslide would he have won if the playing field had been even slightly level?

[John]

Obama tried to help the Congressional Democrats in 2010 and 2014. How did that workout? Obama did everything he could to help Hillary in 2016. How did that workout? Now he is trying to destroy the Trump administration. Given Obama's track record, I am betting on Trump winning re-election in a landslide and finishing out two terms as one of the most successful Presidents since World War II. I say that not because of any belief in Trump, but because of Obama's incredible record of having a reverse Midas touch.

[C. S. P. Schofield]

I'm with you on that. And in the process Obama will continue his long performance as the most potent source of embarrasment in the Black communist, and the cement his place in history as an even bigger post-presidental pest then Jimmy Carter.

[C. S. P. Schofield]

Oh, and I'm not saying Trump would have won in a landslide but for Democrat dirty tricks to say Trump,is super popular. I'm saying it's a measure of how tired the voters are of these Political Class Business As Ususal rat bastards.

[american socialist]

I think trump with those tweets is smarter than he lets on. He has been known to say stupid stuff before without proof so i don't think it will be paid attention to....but it appears to have thrown a wrench into the dem narrative and is now on a boomerang back to them

[MikeP2]

Agreed. There were reports about wiretapping and FISA warrants coming out months ago. Trump waited and then with a couple tweets created an absolute firestorm around this. Dem mouths were talking about "transcripts" and investigations just last week....now they are desperately backpedaling.

[american socialist]

Yea like which direction do they go?

If they were tapped and nothing was found to bring about further investigation...really bad situation for the dems. I suspect they will want to bury the russian nonsense

[mad.casual]

Seven in 10 Americans say the United States is losing its "national identity," according to a new Associated Press poll.

And the other 3 are just afraid of being portrayed as white nationalists.

[MikeP2]

Didn't some Dem congress critter proclaim over the weekend that "there were transcripts" of conversations between Trump's people and the Russians. And then desparate backpedal away from "transcripts"...because....ya know...that would confirm the whole wiretapping thing.

This is huge. The loops the MSM is jumping through to quote "anonymous officials" in breathless front page articles is amazing. Particularly since there was broad public acknowledgement of investigations and the FISA warrants back in January and earlier. The NYT themselves are re-writing their own publishing history. absolutely amazing.

[Crusty Juggler - #2]

Our elected president is being undermined by the intelligence community, and I am so outraged that I am going to comment on the internet.

[Citizen X - #6]

Good heavens!

[Domestic Dissident]

What a shock that you Obama-loving gayboys are perfectly cool with your messiah using the apparatus of the state against your political enemies.

[Citizen X - #6]

Some idiot on the internet sure read between your lines, Crusty.

[John]

The troll infestation is out of control.

[DanO.]

You should Tweet about it if it's serious. What's good for the Cheeto...

[John]

So they haven't even given you talking points about this. You probably ought to wait until you have some before saying anything. Or did they just tell you to post retarded nonsequiturs in lieu of talking points?

If they wanted retarded nonsequiturs, they certainly go the right man for the job.

[Crusty Juggler - #2]

Keep it between the lines.

[mad.casual]

Our elected president is being undermined by the intelligence community, and I am so outraged that I am going to comment on the internet.

*Launches off on clich?d quest to bring down the intelligence community.*

[DanO.]

If your outraged opponents outnumber you in long-winded, repetitive defenses of the President who they don't support but oddly defend tooth and nail, does that mean that the president is not a paranoid, grasping crybaby who is prone to tantrums precipitated by far-right conspiracy theorists?

[Juice]

Our elected president

lol speak for yourself

[american socialist]

Yep. Trump may be actually playing 3d chess lol!

[VG Zaytsev]

Some dem douchenozzel was just on MSNBC saying that it's outrageous how Trump engages in fear-mongering instead of coming clean about his shadowy Russian connections.

[american socialist]

Sounds like this dem is projecting!

[Domestic Dissident]

Another salutary effect of this whole clusterfuck is that it's exposing some so-called "civil libertarians" as the total fakers that they really are. I always knew that Glenn Greenwald was a completely dishonest piece of shit, but I read that Rep. Amash of all people was defending Obama's actions while at home in his district over the weekend.

If that's really true, I have to say it's pretty disappointing. I honestly thought he was a straight shooter and the real deal.

[Citizen X - #6]

"Salutary," huh? Looks like someone finally figured out that a thesaurus isn't a prehistoric animal!

[american socialist]

Glenn Greenwald has a good article this morning on the Dems desire for russian conflict. Can someone link it? It was over 50 characters and i don't know how to do those

[Meh.]

< a href="link goes here"> text goes here < /a>

Just remove the spaces before the first "a" and before the slash 🙂

[John]

is this the link

[american socialist]

It is on home page top of page. democrats now demonize the same russia policies that obama long championed

[John]

So this one

[John]

Why would anyone want a Russia conflict? Have they really gone that insane?

[spqr2008]

Because they see Putin as an autocrat and the heir to the people that brought down the one true ideology? That's the only thing I can see those red diaper babies on the left being really upset at Russia for. Either that or because Trump doesn't want to go to war with Russia over their hacking of both partys' e-mails and only succeeding at getting the Dems side penetrated (so much for the party of technology and science).

[John]

I am starting to think they have decided radical Islam is the way to destroy the west and thus want the two major western powers in conflict so that they do not unite and defeat radical Islam. I know that is crazy, but these people are nuts.

[spqr2008]

I don't know how that would even work out, because the next arms race Russia and the U.S. and China could have is in space, and if you develop Kinetic Energy Weapons, the next thing you know, we're taking out Mecca, Medina, and Qom in response to Terrorist attacks, and using Close Air support KEWs in ground combat operations against third world countries that are harboring terrorists. I guess if the radical Islamists manage to take over Europe it could help them somehow, but I'm not seeing it. And BTW John, have you read Tom Kratman's Caliphate ?

[VG Zaytsev]

It sure seams that way.

[MikeP2]

Perhaps one should wonder about the intentions of the owners of the Dems.

Who are the money men and what do they want?

how else to explain why there has been a complete news blackout about the ongoing smoldering/shooting war between the two biggest land armies in Europe - Russian/Ukraine? Shouldn't this be of interest....to somebody?

[John Titor]

Only foreign nation that you can really demonize without being seen as racist, lacks industrial and economic ties to the U.S. like China, 'white' (we apparently count Slavs as white now) with a growing Christian population that is targeting minorities the Democrats want to please, successor to the last great leftist ideology that failed horribly, their leader managed to drive circles around Obama in numerous issues despite being at a severe disadvantage and suffering for it (sanctions are rough, but Putin definitely comes off the 'winner' in scenarios like the Crimean annexation and the 'Red Line' speech about Syria).

In short, they're easy to make into the horrible Other because they fit into Democrats' hate categories.

[Sevo]

Moonbeam's choo-choo, collateral damage account:

The "Transbay Terminal" is one of those glorified gov't jobs programs, supposedly to act as the north terminal of the choo-choo in downtown SF. It was already $300M over budget in 2013 ( http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/.....685647.php ), definitely more than that now, since a local proggy changed the rules and the first developer told 'em to stuff it.
Now it turns out 'way worse for the long term ( paywalled, headline here http://www.sfgate.com/search/?.....ery=matier ).
The operating costs were to be paid by the huge crowds just dying to get to someplace they don't want to be in Los Angeles at a much later time than the were promised on the choo-choo that is looking less and less likely ever to be built. The crowds were guessed to be 100,000/day. Really.
So in addition to the ever-mounting construction over-runs, we taxpayers will be on the hook for what is now guessed to be $20M/year to keep it clean and "to keep the place from becoming a giant homeless camp", which is beginning to sound like its highest and best use.

[Sevo]

Oops.
Not meant as reply to am soc.

[Sevo]

Oh, and just saw this:
"Now comes word that the project's costs have grown another $150 million"
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/.....486433.php
May 2014 in addition to the $300M

Plus:
"The cost of the Transbay Terminal project was supposed to cost roughly $1.6 billion, but that has since ballooned to $2.3 billion and now the city of San Francisco is considering a proposal to bridge that gap."
http://abc7news.com/traffic/sf.....-/1288402/
April 2016, so there have been yet more dollars down that hole.

Kinda leaves you wondering what the actual numbers are...

[Fatty Bolger]

Interesting. For months I've been asking the question - why agitate for hostility with Russia? Greenwald thinks it's being done to whitewash western neo-liberal policy failures. Another potential answer to add to the list.

[american socialist]

Hillary brought up the connection of Trump tower to Russian banks at the end of october. If there were no taps, were they lying about that connection in first place? Or were they tapping which would vindicate trump and apparently nothing has turned up?

Either way not a good look for the dems.

[John]

The Democratic talking point that "if Obama did tap that is even worse for Trump because that means a judge found probable cause to believe there were ties to Russia", might be the dumbest and most desperate talking point I have ever heard. There is so much wrong with that. First, probable cause means, "there is reason to think there might be something there" not that there is. And since they would have tapped and found nothing, that vindicates Trump. Second, only a Prog could be dumb enough to claim that just because a judge signed off on it, that makes it okay.

[american socialist]

Yea which would go against their "trump is lying that obama ordered it" talking point. haha they don't know what to do

[VG Zaytsev]

It also goes against their claim that the criminal justice system is corrupt (yeah I know that FISA isn't part of that, but its all the same to the average person).

[spqr2008]

I love the Obama Spokesperson's response to the allegations: "A cardinal rule of the Obama administration was that no White House official ever interfered with any independent investigation led by the Department of Justice,"... "As part of that practice, neither President Obama nor any White House official ever ordered surveillance on any U.S. citizen. Any suggestion otherwise is simply false." Yes, President Obama never ever ordered surveillance on any suspected leak receiving reporters, or, in the one absolutely proven, indisputable case, Anwar Al-Awlaki.

[John]

As part of that practice, neither President Obama nor any White House official ever ordered surveillance on any U.S. citizen.

But we know the FBI and NSA did as a matter of practice. And we also know the White House knew about this and didn't do anything to stop it.

What they are saying here is "we left the dirty work to the FBI and NSA", as if that somehow makes them look better. They are flat out saying "we set it up so we would have plausible deniability."

[VG Zaytsev]

Hillary's tweet revealed inside information, which is itself a violation of several national security laws.

[DanO.]

This place seems a little less superfluous and glib lately. It's nice. What happened?

[Fatty Bolger]

This happened

[MikeP2]

WP reported months ago that Mike Rogers, head of NSA, visited Trump at Trump tower one week after election.

They also reported that the were calls for Obama to dismiss Mike Rogers because he made this trip without notice to his superiors...i.e. Clapper.

So....what did Adm Rogers tell Trump on Nov 17th?

[Fatty Bolger]

Interesting, had not seen that before.

In a move apparently unprecedented for a military officer, Rogers, without notifying superiors, traveled to New York to meet with Trump on Thursday at Trump Tower. That caused consternation at senior levels of the administration, according to the officials, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss internal personnel matters.

The NSA is under the DoD, so wouldn't his superiors be the SecDef, followed by Obama?

[DanO.]

I had to run some errands. Did the president provide the evidence yet for his not-insane spying charges?

[MikeP2]

He doesn't need to. The press was reporting on the FISA warrants and transcripts months ago.

Trump just needs to wait for people to do their homework on prior NYT articles, the rampant quotes from "unnamed officials", and public statements from people like Clinton on this very topic during the election.

Trump just lit the fuse to the fireworks. Now he's ducking down, covering his ears, and giggling like crazy waiting for the fun to begin.

[Zeb]

9-dimensional chess.

[MikeP2]

I wouldn't go that far. But it certainly doesn't look like just some "unhinged tweet".
The FISA warrants and taps on Trump Tower have been openly discussed for months in the press. Clinton made reference to the taps in the campaign.

Trump's timing on this is interesting. He "didn't just learn about it". It was released now for effect.

[VG Zaytsev]

Trump just found out about it while he was catching up on old issues of the NY Times.

[Domestic Dissident]

The Deep Spook State apparatus is in open warfare with him with no sign of calling a truce. Maybe he's finally decided that enough is enough and it's time to start fighting back.

Seriously, wouldn't you if you were him?

[DanO.]

He doesn't need to.

Yes, he does.

[MikeP2]

Why? The evidence has already been published. Clinton herself described the FISA wiretaps back in October.

NYTs themselves published reports of the surveillance as did a number of other media outlets as well as various congresscritters and Obama admin officials.

[Fascist loofa-faced shitgibbon]

That's not "evidence"

[Red Rocks Baiting n Inciting]

There were plenty of articles about surveillance being done and intel reports diffused throughout the intelligence community as recently as last week. Trump going off about "Obama tapping his phone" would be the presumed conclusion for these kinds of operations, considering the President is supposed to get briefed about these sort of activities from time to time.

The bigger conversation to be had here is the idea that the government should be allowed to spy on anyone and everyone, and whether this is the logical end for intelligence bureaucracies that can be weaponized by the chief executive. You really want Trump doing a "spoils system" for the FBI, CIA, etc. and using it in the manner that the Obama administration did?

[LoneWaco]

Be careful Obama. It's the coverup that will get you. Better to sacrifice Jarrett now than go down with her, and this Trump fellow is smarter than you.

[DanO.]

Is it recipe time yet?

[LoneWaco]

So how is the Obama administration and his minions throughout the government spying on Trump different than the Watergate burglary?

It isn't different.

[Domestic Dissident]

The official line in the end will be "Trump is a horrible, no good, awful human being, and he and his people were talking to the Russians, so it was justified in this case."

This is the entire reason why Obama's minions in the government and the media have been hammering the "Russian influence" bullshit so hard almost from moment he won the election. These people are no fools, as soon as he won they knew they were screwed and it was only a matter of time until this story blew up and went public. So they knew right away they needed to manufacture some plausible-sounding pretext to justify Obama's despicable Nixonian behavior.