Reason.com - Free Minds and Free Markets
Reason logo Reason logo
  • Latest
  • Magazine
    • Current Issue
    • Archives
    • Subscribe
    • Crossword
  • Video
  • Podcasts
    • All Shows
    • The Reason Roundtable
    • The Reason Interview With Nick Gillespie
    • The Soho Forum Debates
    • Just Asking Questions
    • The Best of Reason Magazine
    • Why We Can't Have Nice Things
  • Volokh
  • Newsletters
  • Donate
    • Donate Online
    • Donate Crypto
    • Ways To Give To Reason Foundation
    • Torchbearer Society
    • Planned Giving
  • Subscribe
    • Reason Plus Subscription
    • Print Subscription
    • Gift Subscriptions
    • Subscriber Support

Login Form

Create new account
Forgot password

Presidential Debate

Oral Arguments Heard in Libertarian Party Lawsuit Regarding Commission on Presidential Debates

Federal judge: The FEC isn't considering the L.P.'s arguments that the Commission is unfairly partisan and using illegitimate criteria to exclude third parties.

Brian Doherty | 1.13.2017 8:45 AM

Share on FacebookShare on XShare on RedditShare by emailPrint friendly versionCopy page URL
Media Contact & Reprint Requests

One of the Libertarian Party's attempts to overturn the Commission on Presidential Debates' third-party damaging practices via lawsuit had its first hearings last week in U.S. District Court in D.C. on motions from both sides for summary judgment. (For a summation of what's at issue in the case, officially known as Level the Playing Field v. FEC, see this report from October when these arguments were first scheduled, alas too late to do Gary Johnson's campaign any good.)

Gary Johnson Facebook

In that hearing, Alexandra Shapiro, the lawyer representing the Libertarian Party's National Committee and the other plaintiffs in the case, argued that the American people faced a uniquely terrible set of major party choices in 2016, which she blamed on the fact that the:

two major parties have rigged the system to maintain their own power and deprive American citizens of their choices. They've done that in a number of ways, including partisan gerrymandering, voter suppression laws, rules to prevent independence from appearing on a ballot if they won in a major party primary first.

And, of course, the reason we're here today, the rule of the Commission on Presidential Debates uses to exclude independent and third party candidates from competing against the Democrat and Republican nominees. And this is critical because everyone knows that in the United States you can't become president without participating in these debates. Now, most Americans want additional choices, and if the CPD continues to operate as it has in the past, run by partisans who are erecting impossible barriers….

To the specific legal issue, Shapiro argues that the CPD's reality as bipartisan and not truly nonpartisan has implications for the legality of how they are funded under campaign finance law, and that the CPD does not use "preestablished objective criteria to determine who may participate" in a real sense since they are in her mind "selecting a level of support [for their] polling criteria that is so high that only the Democratic and Republican nominees could reasonably achieve it." (15 percent in five different national polls.)

Shapiro went on in the hearings to detail how the people running the CPD are directly, and often financially, supportive of the two major parties. (CPD FEC's lawyers counterargued that the actions of the individuals who run the CPD are not analogous to the organization itself being partisan.) The huge amounts of corporate contributions to the CPD are in violation of campaign finance law since the CPD is not truly nonpartisan, Shapiro insists.

As for the 15 percent criteria, Shapiro said that in a 2000 lawsuit by Patrick Buchanan against the CPD FEC "the District Court…held that the debate sponsors can't select a level of support that's so high that only the Democratic and Republican nominees could reasonably achieve it."

Shapiro goes on to say that the FEC inadequately considered the evidence in two reports by polling experts Clifford Young and Douglas Schoen which very rigorously "determined that on average an independent candidate must achieve a minimum of 60 percent name recognition and more likely closer to 80 to have a polling of 15 percent" and that without going through the highly reported major party primary process, no independent or third party candidate is likely to be able to do that.

If they were to try, they'd likely need around $265 million to spend to achieve such recognition. Those reports from the experts also indicate that three-way polling can underrepresent support for independents.

Shapiro says CPD has created a "Catch-22" in which no one can raise that money unless donors believe they will make the debates.

Judge Tanya S. Chutkan's questions to the FEC lawyer made it clear she considered earlier administrative decisions by the FEC in the case to have inadequately considered all the evidence presented by L.P.'s side.

"I have to give the agency's decision deference," Judge Chutkan said. "But if the agency doesn't articulate any analysis in dismissing the complaints, why should I grant the agency deference?…I strain in my reading of the analysis to find your articulation of what fact criteria you used, what analysis you used in coming to your conclusions… I have to be satisfied that in reaching a decision the FEC considered all the evidence here. And I'm finding it very difficult based on what I've been provided in terms of the analysis."

While Judge Chutkan has not yet made her decision, the hearing transcripts strongly indicate she is very unlikely to allow the FEC to win the case on summary judgment.

Start your day with Reason. Get a daily brief of the most important stories and trends every weekday morning when you subscribe to Reason Roundup.

This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

NEXT: Teachers Unions and Title IX Zealots Want to Destroy Betsy DeVos

Brian Doherty is a senior editor at Reason and author of Ron Paul's Revolution: The Man and the Movement He Inspired (Broadside Books).

Presidential DebateLibertarian Party
Share on FacebookShare on XShare on RedditShare by emailPrint friendly versionCopy page URL
Media Contact & Reprint Requests

Hide Comments (39)

Editor's Note: As of February 29, 2024, commenting privileges on reason.com posts are limited to Reason Plus subscribers. Past commenters are grandfathered in for a temporary period. Subscribe here to preserve your ability to comment. Your Reason Plus subscription also gives you an ad-free version of reason.com, along with full access to the digital edition and archives of Reason magazine. We request that comments be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment and ban commenters for any reason at any time. Comments may only be edited within 5 minutes of posting. Report abuses.

  1. Fist of Etiquette   8 years ago

    IT’S NOT TOO LATE. Judge Chutkan, you are democracy’s last check. You can be an American hero. Invalidate the election. Trump hasn’t been sworn in as president yet. There is time.

    1. Rich   8 years ago

      “I have to be satisfied that in reaching a decision the FEC considered all the evidence here. And I’m finding it very difficult based on what I’ve been provided in terms of the analysis.”

      “It’s too hard to make a decision!” (tick – tick- tick – ….)

    2. colorblindkid   8 years ago

      I’m in if we get Gary Johnson as president, who stoned out of his mind for 4 years would still be better than the two other options.

    3. JFree   8 years ago

      I hope that this judge can actually decide the case justly – at the likely personal cost of never getting appointed beyond her current judgeship. She’s got the right background (anti-trust) and the CPD is obviously stomping all over that.

      Of course even if she does decide the case as it should be – the two parties will have four more years to screw with the next election and protect their nest.

  2. Jerryskids   8 years ago

    As for the 15 percent criteria, Shapiro said that in a 2000 lawsuit by Patrick Buchanan against the CPD “the District Court…held that the debate sponsors can’t select a level of support that’s so high that only the Democratic and Republican nominees could reasonably achieve it.”

    So how does the CPD determine what the proper threshold is? Whatever the inputs into that calculation are, when you find that third-party candidates consistently fail to reach that threshold you have to conclude that you’re using some flawed inputs and the threshold is too high. If you then fail to correct the calculation, it’s hard not to suspect you’re either deliberately using a flawed calculation or you’re an idiot who has no business setting standards. I’m sure the CPD is going to argue that the standard is such that third-party candidates can “reasonably” expect to achieve it, but the empirical evidence says your model is wrong. Empirical evidence is facts, models are opinions.

    1. Scarecrow Repair & Chippering   8 years ago

      The obvious criteria is accept any candidate who is on the ballot in states which represent a majority of the electoral votes; they could conceivably win. Everyone else is just a spoiler, who, while they may have something to say, cannot win unless no one wins a majority of the electoral college and the vote goes to the House of Representatives.

      It’s at least a reasonable and rational cutoff. 15% is just nonsense clearly geared towards eliminating all third party candidates.

      1. Gary T   8 years ago

        I totally agree.
        Those candidates who have a theoretical chance of winning should be on stage and in the debates.
        It is an objective standard that is not subject to post hoc corruption.

      2. Gary T   8 years ago

        I totally agree.
        Those candidates who have a theoretical chance of winning should be on stage and in the debates.
        It is an objective standard that is not subject to post hoc corruption.

        1. Col. Chestbridge   8 years ago

          The squirrelz agree too!

    2. 2whlrider   8 years ago

      The 15% threshold is not unreasonable. Stop blaming the CPD for the failure of third parties to field candidates that are somewhat appealing. The debates can’t be infinitely long and are too long and boring as it is. Why should American’s have to spend more time listening to candidates that they have no interest in and less time listening to the ones they are interested in?

      Nobody is stopping third party candidates from having their own debates. They could set up their own debates and invite whoever they want. Their bitch is that they want to be included in the “popular” debate that everyone will watch when they simply aren’t popular and don’t belong there. Frankly, the attitude of entitlement is disgusting.

  3. Perseus   8 years ago

    If the judge refuses summary judgement she will have plenty of time to be availed of all the analysis at the trial.

    Getting on the debate stage is the single most important thing for changing presidential politics. Just ask Ross Perot.

    1. Perseus   8 years ago

      Perot was polling 8% nationally before debates began. Didn’t he end up with 19% in the election? That is a number too high to be ignored by the two major parties. It wasn’t ignored and that is how we ended up with the exclusionary CPD to begin with.

      1. Perseus   8 years ago

        Fact checked myself and I was wrong. Perot was polling single digits in 1996 and was not allowed in the debates. The fifteen percent threshold was in effect for both of his runs and he was polling high enough in 1992 to be included.

        1. West Texas   8 years ago

          Perot was definitely in the debates in 1992.I believe both of the major parties wanted him to debate and asked that the rules be suspended because they felt he hurt the other side more.

          1996 is when they told him to fuck off.

  4. The Fusionist   8 years ago

    “The huge amounts of corporate contributions to the CPD are in violation of campaign finance law since the CPD is not truly nonpartisan, Shapiro insists.”

    Wow, that sort of argument could never come back to bite libertarians in the butt. No, sir.

    Seriously, corporate donations to the Reason Foundation could be challenged on this basis – that the Foundation is a de facto supporter of Libertarian Party candidates.

    If voters rely on the CPD to screen candidates, that’s on the voters.

    I’d say than any group – even the CPD – has the right to be partisan without fearing government reprisal – and by the same token, without getting any government advantage.

  5. Longtobefree   8 years ago

    How about just declaring the CPD unconstitutional, and saving the taxpayers a bunch of money?
    Lack of full representation of the ideas with a mathematical shot at the electoral college votes violates one man one vote.

    1. gaoxiaen   8 years ago

      I’m so sick of this bullshit that at this point I’d vote for Stalin or Hitler rather than a fucking elephant or donkey.

    2. kbolino   8 years ago

      declaring the CPD unconstitutional

      I’m missing the constitutional requirement to provide a debate forum as well as the constitutional restrictions on partisan political theatre.

      There *might* be a case under tax law, but that’s only because the law is a speech regulation masquerading as a tax code provision. The CPD is not a governmental body and doesn’t have to give anybody airtime, regardless of how “unfair” it might be.

      1. Gary T   8 years ago

        It is a governmental body, if it is so aligned and associate with current governmental administrations, that it is private in name only.

        1. kbolino   8 years ago

          It affiliates with the national party commissions. Those are also private organizations. Just because an organization is politicking doesn’t make it part of the government.

      2. Rick Stewart   8 years ago

        They are certainly not ‘unconstitutional.’

        They may, or may not, be violating FEC regulations, which do regulate ‘airtime.’

        They may, or may not, be misrepresenting the sources of their income to the IRS, thus violating their 501(c)(3) status. It seems highly unlikely they would do this, in my estimation, since the consequences of being caught could be severe.

        They are given their influence by 1) their claim to sponsor ‘the’ presidential debates, and 2) the media’s belief it is true, or at least willingness to pretend they believe the claim is true.

    3. Gozer the Gozarian   8 years ago

      Federation of states, not popular democracy.

  6. Born Again Username   8 years ago

    Let’s assume that polls ask people who they want to vote for instead of the alternative of giving them a list to choose from. Let’s also assume that each candidate in a set of candidates will get the same number of votes. This set of candidates can then be no larger than 6 candidates before it is possible that no one will make this threshold. According to this site, 5 candidates were on more than 20 states’ ballots, and 10 were on more than 5 states’ ballots. So, depending on the set used, the 15% threshold is unreasonable in this paradigm.

    This threshold is even more unreasonable if we allow for nontrivial matters to influence how people vote, especially because a candidate may temporarily poll below the threshold when they are normally above it.

    1. gaoxiaen   8 years ago

      How about debating ideas instead of influence and cash reserves?

    2. Gary T   8 years ago

      A very good analysis.
      In short, the criteria set up by the CPD makes it mathematically impossible for viable candidates — candidates that have a chance at winning — to be included in the debate.

  7. Gary T   8 years ago

    The CPD claims to be a private institution.
    But I would question that, given the ties it has to the established parties, and the at least semi-official position it has in presenting the active presidential candidates to the electing public.

    1. Mickey Rat   8 years ago

      The parties are not parts of the government. They are more like competing professional organizations for the political class.

    2. Rick Stewart   8 years ago

      The CPD position is no more semi-official than that of the American Red Cross.

      It is, in fact, a registered 501(c)(3) organization, which makes it a ‘publicly supported organization.’

      Whatever ‘position’ the CPD has is completely unofficial and comes from 1) their claims, and 2) the willingness of the press to believe them, or at least to pretend to believe them.

  8. k2341191   8 years ago

    Use several hours of your spare time to acquire extra 1000 on your paypal account each week… Get more details on following site

    =====>>>http://www.joinpay40.com

  9. Robert   8 years ago

    without going through the highly reported major party primary process, no independent or third party candidate is likely to be able to do that.

    So, duh, go thru the highly reported major party primary process!

    1. Rick Stewart   8 years ago

      In Iowa you are prevented from doing so unless you achieved 3% of the vote in a previous state wide election.

      As for doing it as a Republican/Democrat, failing to win the nomination then changing to a different party, it has been done (Roosevelt, Wallace, Anderson, perhaps others), but requiring this to get a debate invitation seems somewhat strange. Sort of like requiring someone to be a TV celebrity …

  10. Rick Stewart   8 years ago

    “The huge amounts of corporate contributions to the CPD”

    Equalling roughly $0,000,000,000,000.00 every single year.

    This was proved four years ago. The Libertarian Party, and Reason, and Level the Playing Field, and Ralph Nader, seem immune to assimilating this fact.

    http://www.rollcall.com/news/a…..958-1.html

    1. gaoxiaen   8 years ago

      Seems like the article shows the opposite of what you say.

  11. Hank Phillips   8 years ago

    When using dictation software it pays to read aloud what the warez claim you said. Independence is, I’ll wager, independents in peoplespeak.

  12. zojini   8 years ago

    I can see what your saying… Raymond `s article is surprising, last week I bought a top of the range Acura from making $4608 this-past/month and-a little over, $10,000 this past month . with-out any question its the easiest work I’ve ever had . I began this five months/ago and almost straight away startad bringin in minimum $82 per-hr
    . Read more on this site…..
    ==================
    http://www.homejobs7.com

  13. pujuxifiwa   8 years ago

    The best part of work is from comfort of your house and get paid from $100-$2k each week. Start today and have your first cash at the end of this week. For more info Check the following link

    +_+_+_+_+_+_+_+_+ http://www.homejobs7.com

  14. ammythomas98   8 years ago

    I get paid ?82 every hour from online joobs. I never thought I’d be able to do it but my friend AB is earning ?9k monthly by doing this job and she showed me how. Try it out on following website..

    ====>>>>>>>>>> http://www.JobMax6.Com

  15. juviwunubo   8 years ago

    just before I saw the receipt that said $7527 , I accept that my mom in-law woz like actualey making money in there spare time from there pretty old laptop. . there aunt had bean doing this for less than twentey months and at present cleared the depts on there appartment and bourt a great new Citro?n 2CV . look here…….
    Clik This Link inYour Browser.
    ================> http://www.homejobs7.com

  16. jehiyat   8 years ago

    My best friend’s wife makes Bucks75/hr on the laptop. She has been unemployed for eight months but last month her income with big fat bonus was over Bucks9000 just working on the laptop for a few hours.
    Read more on this site
    ================== http://www.homejobs7.com

    1. Eman   8 years ago

      Yknow who else made $75 an hour on their laptop?

Please log in to post comments

Mute this user?

  • Mute User
  • Cancel

Ban this user?

  • Ban User
  • Cancel

Un-ban this user?

  • Un-ban User
  • Cancel

Nuke this user?

  • Nuke User
  • Cancel

Un-nuke this user?

  • Un-nuke User
  • Cancel

Flag this comment?

  • Flag Comment
  • Cancel

Un-flag this comment?

  • Un-flag Comment
  • Cancel

Latest

How Tariffs Are Breaking the Manufacturing Industries Trump Says He Wants To Protect

Eric Boehm | From the July 2025 issue

The Latest Escalation Between Russia and Ukraine Isn't Changing the Course of the War

Matthew Petti | 6.6.2025 4:28 PM

Marsha Blackburn Wants Secret Police

C.J. Ciaramella | 6.6.2025 3:55 PM

This Small Business Is in Limbo As Owner Sues To Stop Trump's Tariffs

Eric Boehm | 6.6.2025 3:30 PM

A Runner Was Prosecuted for Unapproved Trail Use After the Referring Agency Called It 'Overcriminalization'

Jacob Sullum | 6.6.2025 2:50 PM

Recommended

  • About
  • Browse Topics
  • Events
  • Staff
  • Jobs
  • Donate
  • Advertise
  • Subscribe
  • Contact
  • Media
  • Shop
  • Amazon
Reason Facebook@reason on XReason InstagramReason TikTokReason YoutubeApple PodcastsReason on FlipboardReason RSS

© 2024 Reason Foundation | Accessibility | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use

This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply.

r

Do you care about free minds and free markets? Sign up to get the biggest stories from Reason in your inbox every afternoon.

This field is for validation purposes and should be left unchanged.

This modal will close in 10

Reason Plus

Special Offer!

  • Full digital edition access
  • No ads
  • Commenting privileges

Just $25 per year

Join Today!