Donald Trump

10 Things Libertarians Need to Know About Trump and Pence, Hamilton, and Political Correctness

It's absolutely fine for actors to use their platform to criticize the president or vice president after a performance.

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Hamilton
Screenshot via Hamilton

You might have heard about the latest cultural outrage incident: Vice President-Elect Mike Pence attended a performance of the mega-hit musical Hamilton and, after it was over, a member of the cast read a brief statement expressing "alarm and anxiousness" about President-Elect Donald Trump's policies.

After thanking Pence for attending, Brandon Victor Davis (who plays Aaron Burr in the production) said this:

"We, sir — we — are the diverse America who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights. We truly hope that this show has inspired you to uphold our American values and to work on behalf of all of us."

Pence later noted that he wasn't offended by the statement and remained committed to bringing all Americans together in the wake of a highly divisive presidential campaign.

But Trump was furious, and penned several critical tweets.

Public reaction was similarly mixed: liberals cheered the cast of Hamilton for exercising their free speech rights to stand up on behalf of marginalized Americans who have every reason to fear a Trump presidency, while conservatives lamented the disrespect shown the vice president.

But libertarians appear split, too. Libertarian economist and author Steve Horwitz echoed my political-correctness-backlash-aided-Trump theory in his post on the Hamilton kerfuffle, writing on Facebook: "Want to understand one big reason why Trump won? Just look at what the cast of Hamilton did when they discovered Pence was in attendance last night. There is your urban/professional media consumers elitism right there."

He later added:

My point in the Hamilton post was not that I disagree with the cast's concerns, but that when leftists do things like that, it's exactly what makes many people feel like they are being condescended to and treated like rubes for having voted a certain way or thinking a certain way. Or because they don't think everything should be politicized. You piss them off at your own peril. They don't respond well to seeing elected officials disrespected too, even if I'm all in favor of it.

Meanwhile, libertarian comedian Jeremy McLellan complained about libertarians who believe, "Trump won because of some stuff I already thought before he won. Truly an amazing coincidence." (Yeah, he considers me to be one of those libertarians.) On Hamilton and Pence, he writes:

One of the most common characteristics of abusers that I noticed when I worked with people with disabilities was the attitude that the client's resistance to the abuse was itself thought of as justification for the abuse. Once that feedback loop is established, control is justified through both acquiescence and resistance, and there's nothing the client can do (behavior wise) to escape. The same holds true for abusive relationships, prisons, police, or any other kind of authoritarian regime. The broader message is "Your resistance to my behavior is the reason I behave this way in the first place."

Remember this over the next four years when you hear the trope "See this is why Trump won." If you call his appointees racist, that's why Trump won. If you boo Mike Pence, that's why Trump won. If you protest in the streets, that's why Trump won. If you insult him or his supporters, that's why Trump won. It's a rhetorical tool for neutering resistance. Always ask what function it serves.

A couple things.

1. This should go without saying, but it's absolutely fine for actors to use their platform to criticize the president or vice president after a performance. This isn't bullying. You can't really bully the second most powerful person in the country. He always has more power than you.

2. The actor's statement wasn't even particularly mean-spirited. Rather, it expressed well-founded concerns about the kinds of policies President Trump has vowed to enact. Trump has promised to deport immigrants, bar Muslims from entering the country, and generally sides with the police over communities of color. It's perfectly legitimate for members of those groups to be worried—and for their allies to be worried, on their behalf.

3. As evidence of the fact that the statement wasn't "offensive" (and who cares if it was?), I would cite the fact that Pence wasn't offended.

4. Trump's tweets about the incident were revealing in that they appropriate the language of leftist grievance mongering. Trump said Pence was "harassed" and that the theater should be a safe space. If you think it's pathetic when students complain about their delicate feelings being hurt by inappropriate Halloween costumes, you should probably also roll your eyes at the idea of the most-powerful man in the country feeling micro-aggressed by an encore.

5. The fact that Trump complains about this sort of thing is yet more evidence of a disturbing truth: he is vastly more easily offended than the average politician. No one should actually expect Trump to destroy political correctness: he is just as offended by hard truths and defined by identity politics as the leftists he defeated in the election.

6. One more thing about Trump: narcissism, thin skin, and a penchant for authoritarian solutions are quite the toxic mixture.

7. All that said, it could still be the case that people are wrong to be outraged about Hamilton standing up to Pence, but are outraged, nevertheless. Perhaps some people are sick of the relentless politicization of all facets of life. Maybe they think they should be able to attend a play, or watch an awards show, or sit through a Thanksgiving dinner without being constantly lectured about how wrong and stupid they are.

8. Like Horwitz, I would prefer to live in a world where elected officials were shown less respect, because people who want to take away our rights (and that's nearly all of them) don't deserve it. But supporters of individual liberty have to be tactical. If Hamilton-esque demonstrations actually drive people into the arms of Trump, there may be cause to eschew such theatrics on purely pragmatic grounds.

9. Many people, including many libertarians (McLellan, for instance) think this thesis is fundamentally wrong, or at least unproven: political correctness isn't a significant factor that explains Trump's win. Fairness and Accuracy in Reporting points out that most of the people promoting this explanation—Bill Maher, Jonathan Haidt, George Will, David Brooks, Damon Linker, and yours truly—"hated identity politics to begin with" and are thus guilty of confirmation bias. It's true that we don't know exactly what's in the hearts and minds of Trump voters, and there are no comprehensive polls asking them why they did what they did. So yes, the political correctness theory is a bit speculative, and is being advanced by people who were already concerned about political correctness. But it's not hard to connect the dots: when surveys of Trump voters are done, political correctness invariably comes up. Personally, I have received emails from Trump voters who told me that political correctness was exactly why they voted the way they did. If there's a danger in making too much of this theory, there's also a danger in writing it off.

10. That's because virtually no one in the media saw Trump's win coming, and political correctness has something to do with that. The polls were wrong (partly) because people who planned to vote for Trump did not admit this to pollsters. The kind of person who supported Trump is someone who believes that he couldn't be honest or vocal about what he thinks, and saved his rebellion against political correctness for the ballot box. This left foes of Trump less prepared for what was coming. The "unbearable smugness" of the liberal media, as CBS's Will Rahn describes it, blinded us to reality.

Libertarians and other advocates of a free society should recognize that those inclined to resist Trump and Pence are allies, and that includes the cast of Hamilton­. But such tactics deserve serious scrutiny, even if they are justified. The point is to stop Trump, not just feel better about having made some futile gesture of resistance.

NEXT: Brickbat: Bad Shot

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  1. marginalized Americans who have every reason to fear a Trump presidency

    Robby’s an idiot.

    1. He’s anxiously awaiting the call from Slate or Salon.

      1. What’s the difference between the two? Have they formally merged yet?

        1. Salon used to be nuttier, but Slate has caught up quickly.

          1. I think Salon has regained the edge.

            The Guardian, however, is in the lead by a mile.

      2. Wait a minute… it’s a “ten things” list – he’s trying to get picked up by Buzzfeed.

        1. #7 will amaze you!

          1. It might be okay for actors to express certain opinions, as long as they do it in an appropriate, inoffensive manner and as long as the audience knows they’re just actors. Surely no one here would dare to defend the outrageous “First Amendment dissent” of a single, isolated judge in America’s leading criminal “satire” case? See the documentation at:

            https://raphaelgolbtrial.wordpress.com/

            1. TL: DR Please summarize.

        2. Needs moar .gifs!

          1. GIFs should be relegated to the dustbin of the wayback machine like the blink tag and geocities. They’re a relic of the dark ages of the late 90s and should be met with scorn whenever used.

            1. Who would ever masturbate to a 90s gif? *shifty eyes*

      3. You mean ‘the Communist Call’?

    2. Trump’s campaign rhetoric has emboldened you to say that.

    3. Holy shit you snow flakes are delicate. Is the big mean Robby Bullying you guys? do you need a safe space?

      1. Steady with that projection, Eugene.

      2. The only threat Rico poses to any other human being is the possibility of his long, wavy hair getting in your eye.

        1. You seem very triggered, do you need a therapy puppy?

          1. Why aren’t they called therapuppies?

        2. I hear he will bogart the fruit sushi. That could be a threat to those that like fruit sushi.

    4. Robby got trolled. Just like all the stupid leftists. Wait… does that make him…

    5. You beat me to it.

  2. It is possible to believe that the actors had a right to do (barring whatever objections the producer might possibly have) and believe that is incredibly inappropriate and in poor taste and etiquette.

    1. …Such as horribly misrepresenting important historical figures in a song and dance routine.

      1. In all fairness, he was the first treasury secretary and created the federal bank, so Hamilton himself is responsible for a big song and dance routine.

    2. Sort of like shouting “You lie!” at the President during the State of the Union address?

      1. And he got reprimanded for that too

      2. Maybe. Of course it is also poor etiquette for the president to harangue the court about a decision during the State of the Union.

        1. I wish presidents would go back to just submitting a letter for the State of the Union.

          1. If they’ll skip the stupid speech, I promise I’ll even read the letter. Well, at least as long as it’s shorter than Stephen King’s last novel. We’re talking about a government document here…

      3. Sort of like a rodeo clown wearing an Obama mask and getting fired and banned for life?

    3. I just saw an interview with the actor who delivered the lecture, and apparently the producers were on board and helped draft it. Actually, the way he put it they told him to say it and chose him specifically to deliver it.

      Which puts the whole thing in a different light for me. I was under the impression that the actor’s message to Pence was brought on as a response to the audience members who booed him during the performance. But it seems to be that the cast always intended to deliver this message from the moment they learned the Vice President would be attending the performance.

    4. Yes, the play Hamilton is “incredibly inappropriate and in poor taste and etiquette.”

      1. They forgot to mention that Hamilton designed the Electoral College.

        1. Isn’t it ironic? Dontcha think?

    5. No, no it is not.

      If there’s one thing progressivism has taught us, it is that you cannot disapprove of something while still respecting the right of people to do it, and you cannot approve of something without seeking to make doing it mandatory for everyone. These are facts. It is known.

      1. ^^^ This ^^^.

        Much like the idiot idea that because someone doesn’t like weapons, nobody should have them.

    6. Exactly. Or that guys in a show that openly said they were engaging in racial bias in casting aren’t folks to lecture others about racism.

    7. Bingo. What they did was snotty, condescending, and unprofessional, but I wouldn’t want a cop to tase them for it.

      -jcr

    8. I understand that the producers’ casting call for this play was “whites need not apply.” The original cast list I saw showed that nearly all the “hero” parts were played by people of color, while the “villain,” King George, was played by a very white actor. Make of that what you will.

  3. Trump has promised to deport immigrants…

    Sweet! Can he start with my bother in law?

    I believe he intends to deport illegal immigrants, no?

    1. You see, somehow the folks who get to write articles at reason are barred from differentiating from people who came to this country by the proper process, people who came by the proper process and didn’t leave when they were supposed to, and people who simply ignored the law and came in via whatever routes they could find.

      1. And came in illegally and then committed crimes when here.

        1. Well, some of them, I assume, are good people.

          1. at this point, what difference does it make?

        2. Or.. are running from crimes committed elsewhere.

  4. This seems pretty easy to me.

    Imagine if you went to a restaurant (paying for your food) and your waitress after collecting the bill and tip starts to “lecture” you about your beliefs.

    While this doesn’t violate anyone’s rights, ir certainly qualifies as bad customer service in my view.

    That service does not end IMHO until the customer has left the property at a minimum.

    I am not going to assign elitist actors performer, etc special rules on what is good customer service or bad.

    No libertarian should be approving of what happened.

    1. It is not about disrespecting Pence, it about disresoecting the audience as a whole by hijacking the show for their political opinion which no one paid for.

      1. Pence was part of the audience

        And it doesn’t matter if he were the only customer or not

      2. That Kanye guy is disrespecting his audience nearly every night.

        1. And that’s just in-between his political rants.

        2. Really? I thought that shit was just really awful performance art.

        3. To be fair, if you paid to see Kanye, you should already expect what you’re going to get.

      3. “It is not about disrespecting Pence, it about disresoecting the audience as a whole by hijacking the show for their political opinion which no one paid for.”

        ^ Yes. Pence is a big boy. He can handle the criticism. But commandeering the stage to lecture an attendee about your political views (regardless of whether they’re your own views or those of everyone involved in the production or somewhere in between) is rude. I suspect, given the venue, that most of the audience was probably friendly to those views, but that doesn’t change the fact that it was the wrong time and place. Showing respect for those boundaries is not anti-libertarian.

      4. Agreed. This is a pretty lame excuse for the subject of a whole article. A private citizen decides to start haranguing customers at his place of emp!oyment about politics. In other news, almost half of US citizens are more pretentious than average. This doesn’t actually involve anyone except the actor and his employers. I bet they can figure something out.

    2. I’ll be honest, I was going to go see Hamilton once it starts traveling off Broadway. Now I’ll just wait until they make it a movie, then pirate it. If you want to be a jackass to your customers, don’t expect them to be your customers any longer. I’ll pay to see a musical I actually want to see, done in an interesting way. Like last year, my brother and I took the parents to see Music Man in a state theater near their home. The director did a great job minimizing the amount of set and props needed, so that outside of the initial set, there were maybe 3 pieces of on stage furniture used, and other than the obvious (instruments and costume changes), there was minimal breaks required for scene setting, with most of it controlled by lighting and the actors’ movement and performance. It was a really good version of the show because of that, even if it’s not even “off Broadway”. In the future, I will make choices to seek out experiences like that one, rather than off Broadway, because of things like this. I will not reward rudeness.

      1. After you’re done pirating it, give it a bad review on Rotten Tomatoes.

    3. You’re assuming there’s the One True Libertarian Thought here, and you, being a genius, elucidated it.

      Try this: the Hamilton cast found an opportunity to respectfully exercise their 1A rights and try to nudge policy. Pence respectfully heard them out. That would have been the end of it, but then Trump demonstrated his ignorance of that Bill of Rights thingy and went whinging about could have been a moment to be respectful and acknowledge the concerns of some of the citizenry.

      1. Trump was also exercising his 1A rights. So STFU.

        1. Fuckin’a right! So tired of this idea that orogtards, who constantly shit on the bill of rights, have special access to them. Access that is somehow supposed to be denied to the rest of us.

          1. ‘progtards’………..damn rambunctious squirrels.

      2. Does that mean that when Obama mendaciously lambasted the Supreme Court during his state of the union address for having the audacity to uphold the 1st amendment, he was trying to suppress their rights by complaining about their decision?

      3. NO, the other posters comment about comparing it to a restaurant visit where you get lectured is spot on; NO ONE -much less the target of their hissy fit- goes to a restaurant or a show or a ballgame or whatever THEY PAY YOU MONEY FOR to get lectured and an oh-so-civilized-oh-so-restrained middle finger…
        it was PURE self-indulgence on the hamiltonians part, I don’t care the whole audience wanted to lynch pence…
        (AND they won’t let people of non-color (?) audition for parts ? ? ? what ? *THAT* isn’t racism, but NOT letting people-of-color play white/etc roles *is* ? ? ?)

      4. So wrong. But of course, common sense and manners don’t hold any sway with Progressives.

    4. Exactly. In that context Pence is just like any other audience member and he didn’t pay for and doesn’t deserve a lecture.

  5. So the actors of the play Hamilton are so afraid of the incipient threat of Trimp’s coming dictatorship that they are compelled to publicly embarrass and bully the tyrant’s right had man?

    Bullshit.

    I know it’s bullshit because if they were really afraid of retribution they wouldn’t have acted this way in the first place. Instead it’s more virtue signalling douchebaggery. Which of course excites Cosmo SJWs.

    1. But they’re on the right side of history.

      1. the right side of douchebaggery?

    2. Pretty much this. All the wailing and gnashing of teeth strongly indicates that if there was indeed a movement to put people up against the wall they are utterly ignorant of how much a process would actually be played out or are completely full of shit.

      This is obvious though, since these people can’t stop themselves from spouting hyperbole. It’s a natural by product of reason free arguments.

      I’m trying to think of an example where Obama went to go see a play and was lectured by the actors, but that would never happen as actors are overwhelmingly liberal progressives. That being said, I can think of plenty of sit in protests in ‘flyover country’ that were met with armed resistance by the administration. They’re obviously not the same thing at all, but the differences are interesting in themselves.

      Lets see what happens when Trump actually has power though, since at the moment he’s not capable of doing anything more than indignant tweets. Then we’ll see what the reality of a Trump administration looks like. So far all evidence points towards ‘bad’ but that’s more or less what everyone expected anyway. He is what a slightly lesser evil looks like, I suppose.

  6. Okay reason, what’s with the squirrels today? I’ve gotten the delayed comment posting bug twice, and there isn’t even a lot of people commenting.

    1. They are gathering acorns for the stuffing for Thursday’s feast.

  7. The Theater must always be a safe and special place.The cast of Hamilton was very rude last night to a very good man, Mike Pence. Apologize!

    This is how you troll people.

    1. I did read one theory that he was trying to bait the media into denouncing safe spaces.

      1. Seems like pretty odd phrasing by Trump or his people if that wasn’t meant as trolling.

        1. It was obviously meant as trolling. And as such it receives my full endorsement.

          1. It bothers me that out of all of the websites i’ve visited, I had to come here to find this analysis. When I first read that tweet, I chuckled, because I knew it was trolling.

    2. additionally do these people who believe themselves to be oppressed an unprivileged not realize how contradictory that position looks to most people when they are given a ;larger platform and opportunity to lecture the future Vice President than 99% of the supposed privileged do?

      1. If only these Manhattanites weren’t being constantly oppressed by out of work factory workers in Ohio you might have a point.

  8. In every age and place there have been self-selected elites absolutely certain that they were put upon Earth by some Higher Power to tell the rest of us peasants what to do and how to think. That is the ESSENCE of Political Correctness; the current Elite acting the same way the elites have almost always acted. And just as the french peasants chaffed under the self-rightious idiocy of the Aristocracy, the people in this country chaff under the persistant disapproval of our current bunch of social parasites.

    Whether the Politically Correct are right or not is irrelevant. The key point is that they are annoying prats. Annoying the peasantry is ALWAYS a bad idea. It is worse when they have a vote. It is absolutely imbecilic when THEY have weapons and YOU shun same.

    Before the Civil War the current Elite arranged for a number of arories to be moved to the South. The present bunch are loudly denouncing the idea of bearing arms. That makes them dumber then the goddamnd Planter Aristocracy.

  9. When the cast of Hamilton went low, Pence and Trump went high.

    1. The Theater must always be a safe and special place.The cast of Hamilton was very rude last night to a very good man, Mike Pence. Apologize!

      While funny this is about the lowest and trolliest any president has been that I can remember. Trump is incapable of going high, but that’s what makes him so entertaining.

      1. “Bitter Clingers” and “You didn’t build that!” were far worse.

        Pretty much anything Obama said when measured against reality, for that matter. Takes a lot of temerity to kick millions off their healthcare, “penaltax” them for it, and then brag about how you saved everyone.

        1. +1000. Trump was going pretty high even while trolling. It’s glorious when you can be advocating for manners and respect and still be trolling your enemy. He’s hitting them right on their own virtue-signaling ground.

        2. Just yesterday Obama have a speech at a memorial for the five police officers killed by a black anti-white racist in Dallas. Obama used the speech to hijack the event to blame the events (and every other bad thing that happens apparently) on latent white racism.

          The guy purports to give a lecture about the evils of *white* racism plaguing the black community – to the family members of five cops murdered by a black racist.

          Why did that not make the headlines over Trump’s fucking tweets?

          Imagine President Trump going to a memorial for the victims of Dylan Roof and making the gist of his speech “yeah it’s bad, but remember, this stuff only happens because black people commit so many crimes.”

  10. “Like Horwitz, I would prefer to live in a world where elected officials were shown less respect, because people who want to take away our rights (and that’s nearly all of them) don’t deserve it”

    That’s a sentiment I can relate to. One good thing about Trump is the hero worshipping of the executive is mostly over, or at least the publically broadcast part of it. I can once again call the president a shit bag and now not be called a racist in response.

    1. The end of presidential hero-worship is temporary.

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  12. “””””You can’t really bully the second most powerful person in the country. He always has more power than you.”””

    Pence is a private citizen, he is not yet the Vice President and even if he were Vice President the job is closer to a warm bucket of spit then second most powerful person in the country

    1. Came here to say *almost* this.

      1) Vice-president elect is not currently very powerful, but is about to become somewhat powerful.

      2) VP is not ‘2nd most powerful’ man – maybe not even in the top 10. President, top cabinet secretaries, Senate and House leadership, Supreme Court justices, probably even a couple people outside the government…

      3) Despite that, Pence is more powerful than the cast of Hamilton

      4) Despite that, I don’t believe for a second that they were even slightly worried about him punching back, so I award them no points for bravery, and deduct points for d-baggery.

      1. Its Robby. You’re lucky that’s only the 6th dumbest thing he said.

        1. It’s sad that Reason can’t employ people who are articulate and intelligent. Instead that have to make do with people who have good hair.

          1. And dinner jackets.

      2. As regards #3, don’t be too sure. Those bitchy actors can be VERY catty. And words can cut like a knife. I bet they are also capable of world class hissy fits.

  13. The “Hamilton” cast is now getting lectured and disrupted by audience members that support Trump. (And it’s not even the same cast and venue).

    I certainly think that is wrong, and it is certainly a form of bullying. On the other hand, the actors opened that can of worms themselves. And I’m not sure how the Trump supporters are acting any different than the Code Pink, Anti-Conservative College Students, or Femen protestors have been acting the last 15 years.

    I mean, you guys remember those protestors don’t you? I know they are only in the mainstream news when it makes famous conservatives look bad. But they certainly kept going after Bush left office.

    1. And the Political Left is outraged – OUTRAGED – that anyone else would DARE us the disruptive, annoying, self indulgent protest tactics that are their hallmark.

      1. But the other guys deserved it.

      2. Culture is being appropriated.

    2. “Punch back twice as hard.”

      Unless you make it painful for them, they won’t stop.

  14. The Theater must always be a safe and special place.

    Anyone know what other republican executive found the theater to not be a very safe space?

      1. If you ignore the Republican part and subscribe to the inglorious bastards brand of revisionist history, then sure.

        1. What do you mean? I have it on good authority that all Republicans are literally Hitler.

          1. Shit, I forgot about that. I guess you’re right.

  15. I wonder what Hamilton would have thought?

    He was America’s founding statist.

  16. These actors certainly had the right to do what they did but it was bad form and others have every right to criticize them in turn. Car salesmen, waitresses, garbagemen, and truck drivers also have the right to criticize the hell out of their customers but it’s rude and plain bad business to do so.

    1. Exactly? Why lose a certain percentage of your audience?

      When musicians get super political, I often wonder why they do it. I mean do you really want even something like 10-20% of your listeners to give up on you in disgust?

  17. Why does Robby think Trump is adopting the-safe space crowd’s rhetoric? It’s obvious to everyone outside the beltway/media bubble (and some inside it) that he’s trolling the safe-space crowd.

    I truly think more than half Trump’s votes came from his no-fucks-given trolling of the safe-space crowd throughout the campaign. People are so, so, so sick of those self-righteous assholes.

    1. Asking why Robby thinks things is giving him way too much credit.

      1. Robby’s a feeler, not a thinker.

  18. No one can say that Robby didn’t write about the non-sides of this non-issue, and isn’t that what’s really important?

    1. Don’t tell me what I can’t say.

      1. You can say Robby didn’t write about the non-sides of this non-issue, but then you might not understand why this is all so important. The question of whom is and whom isn’t being condescended to is something that other writers either agree with him about or not. So, whatever it is Robby is saying here, it must be important–because Robby wrote about it. And now we get to read it–whatever it is.

        1. I thought we scrolled past it to the comments section.

  19. “Libertarians and other advocates of a free society should recognize that those inclined to resist Trump and Pence are allies”

    Hmmm…did Reason defend Joe Wilson for yelling “you lie” at the President during the state of the union? Or, did Reason insist that the Republicans are allies against healthcare reform or excessive spending in the administration? What the cast of Hamilton did was low class, just as Joe Wilson’s display of displeasure was. I’m really hoping that Reason can offer criticism the same way it did under the Obama administration, but I think that’s not going to happen. This probably explains why their brand of sellout left-wing ‘libertarianism’ has been the least successful of all.

    But, it always amazes me how even the ‘moral stands’ taken by the Left can seem so condescending. Here you have a room full of rich white liberals (tickets for Hamilton costs thousands of dollars) proclaiming how ‘diverse’ they are.

    1. “We the downtrodden stage actors who are in the position to criticize the VP elect in person with no fear of losing our jobs.” That should resonate with Joe Six Pack.

    2. Robby wants us to play the part of the Mensheviks and join the Bolsheviks in overthrowing the Tsar. He does not seem to know how that story ends.

    1. Seriously. If everyone’s going to act all ostentatiously-oppressed, could we at least get some genuine oppression first? At least a gulag or two.

      1. The Ostentatiously Oppressed would be a glorious band name.

  20. Pence didn’t care. Why should anyone else?

    1. Politicians require a thick skin and, judging from Pence’s nicely tanned hide, his is thicker than most.

  21. Why would i be an ally to resist trump when the people you want to ally with will dump me as soon as they achieve power? They aren’t operating from a freedom perspective…it is just the wrong guy in charge.

    (How would i even do this resisting trump anyway…seems more like a meaningless platitude)

  22. Wanting to ally with liberals is like charlie brown thinking lucy will not pull the football away this time.

  23. Other than that, Mr. Pence….

    I thought the essay by Soave was weak, a fraction above click-bait. I also think there’s a difference between actors making political comments after a performance and actors making political comments to one member of the audience who happens to be in attendance.

    You might have the right to stand up at a wedding reception and toast the bride or groom for being a serious piece of ass you once enjoyed bent over the hood of your Camaro… but doing so makes you a serious douchebag.

    1. “I thought the essay by Soave was weak, a fraction above click-bait.”

      A lot of his pieces aren’t meant to be considered. They’re improvisations on a theme like jazz.

      Should we scrap Title IX?

      Is Title IX great?

      Who knows? The important thing is that he wrote about it.

      *jazz hands*

      1. His work is largely garbage. Although it is enjoyable to laugh it his idiocy, and the way he pukes it out onto the page, betraying a fine line between racing and gibbering.

  24. Fucking safe space bullshit. If its not the commie assholes on the left, its the fucking fascist assholes on the right. Fuck Pence, fuck Trump, and fuck the cast and audience of Hamilton.

    1. Um, I think Trump is right there with you on the “safe space bullshit.” That’s why he tweeted that — holding them to their own crap standard.

      1. Yep. He (or his Twitter person) is quite obviously trolling the left with their own brand of stupidity back in their face here, and of course they’re too stupid to even realize it.

  25. I wonder if the cast of Hamilton expressed similar concerns to Barack Obama, after their command performance before him, about his targeted assassination program that targets one of the same “marginalized” populations as does Trump’s immigration policy.

    1. Oh man, you wouldn’t believe the Truth-to-Power bombs that Code Pink dropped on Obama…. I mean, just look at his face, you can see how shocked and upset he is that they’re….. uh, fawning over him and swooning like teenage girls when he goes, “I know, i know! You’re so right. I’m just as mad as you are, and we’re going to get someone to do something about that.” It was so effective they even canceled the #DefinitelyMyPresidentButWe’reStillUpset hashtag they had planned.

      1. I know I gave them sh!t earlier, but Code Pink has been protesting against Obama over the drone bombings and our attacks on Syria. It’s not their fault the press isn’t playing up their protests while a Democrat is in office. Notice they only made the news again when they showed up at Republican events.

        1. Code Pink has been protesting against Obama over the drone bombings and our attacks on Syria

          Yes, i know. they screamed during one press conference.

          No, I’m not giving them any credit. You need to actually watch that video. The Cindy Sheehans of the world may still occasionally say how mad-as-hell they are, but they wouldn’t dare “disrespect” their Dear Leader to his face.

          1. Most progressives have no real convictions or principles. I just had an unpleasant interaction with some of their kind. Cowardly, gutless, and of low character’ all of them. I am only surprised these low men did not wear yellow coats.

            1. I do not like assassins, and men of low character.

  26. Libertarians and other advocates of a free society should recognize that those inclined to resist Trump and Pence are allies,

    Oh, tell me about it.

  27. Isn’t it funny how when a Republican actor is shooting his mouth off, or running for office, the Left excoriates the very idea that an actor might have something substantive to say, but of course Left leaning actors are always fonts of never-ending wisdom.

    The core issue is that, after decades of allowing the Left to dictate the terms of debate, other factions are fighting back. Some of them are fighting back less from an actual Political agenda than from simply being sick to death of being lectured by hectoring imbeciles. And, naturally, the Left is appalled to encounter actual resistance. And, moreover, they are so accustomed to having it all their own way that they have forgotten how to argue.

    I think that’s the real root of their fear of Trump. They know, or should know, that the country is one hell of a long way from White Supremacy. What they fear, probably more than actual bigotry, is being made to look like fools. And if they have to actually deal with other factions that (*gasp*) FIGHT BACK, they are likely to look like fools.

  28. So, they halted their show to lecture Obama and Hillary about ostracizing and marginalizing citizens, violating civil liberties, and cozying up to Islamofascist regimes that murder homosexuals on sight, as well, right?

    1. And who could possibly forget the time the cast of Hamilton walked off the stage to protest the NSA’s spying on American citizens?

  29. Perhaps some people are sick of the relentless politicization of all facets of life. Maybe they think they should be able to attend a play, or watch an awards show, or sit through a Thanksgiving dinner without being relentlessly lectured about how wrong and stupid they are.

    “Perhaps”

    Have you packed your bags for the move to France, you useless little whiner?

  30. Can’t we go back to those good ol’ days when we complained about union rules requiring live musicians and two stage hands to hammer one nail?

  31. Does no one think that a duel would have been the appropriate way to settle the questions of honor here?

    1. I would be ok with that. Can we make the requirements C4 vests, just to make sure we get the whole theatre?

  32. “We truly hope that this show has inspired you to uphold our American values and to work on behalf of all of us.”

    There’s the problem…these pretentious retards believe that if they put on a play they’ll inspire evil Republicans to see the light and do the right thing.

    “It’s a good think you watched our overpriced play, otherwise you wouldn’t realize the importance of American values and working for everyone.”

    I haven’t seen the play, but I’ll make the (risky) assumption that it’s about Hamilton’s career.

    So…they’re saying Pence should be inspired to support a national debt, a national bank, the paying off of the debts of the states, a national government based on the British colonial model where the states are expressly subordinate to the feds?

    What better way to bring us together!

    1. Well, leftists are statists, so you’re probably characterizing their opinions correctly.

  33. narcissism, thin skin, and a penchant for authoritarian solutions are quite the toxic mixture

    Pence’s response was that of an experienced politician; if you think that he didn’t feel a flash of anger you are kidding yourself. Trump’s response was that of a political novice. Neither of these reactions are particularly surprising, and they give us no new insight into these people.

    “Thin skinned” would be when Hamilton and The Public Theater suddenly find themselves audited by the IRS, and Javier becomes suddenly unavailable because of a “suspected gay bashing and hate crime–perpetrators unknown”. That’s the kind of thing that might happen under Hillary if the cast of Hamilton dared to criticize her, after throwing a private temper tantrum, and a public Pence-like tweet.

    Libertarians and other advocates of a free society should recognize that those inclined to resist Trump and Pence are allies, and that includes the cast of Hamilton?.

    Many of those “inclined to resist Trump and Pence” despise libertarianism and liberty; they may be useful tools in resisting specific future Trump policies, but they will never be allies.

  34. narcissism, thin skin, and a penchant for authoritarian solutions are quite the toxic mixture.

    Pence’s response was that of an experienced politician; you’re kidding yourself if you think he didn’t feel a flash of anger. Trump’s response was that of a political novice. This tells us nothing that we didn’t already know.

    “Thin skin and a penchant for authoritarian solutions” would be a Pence-like public tweet, a private temper tantrum, followed by an IRS audit of Hamilton and The Public Theater, and a mysterious “gay bashing hate crime–perpetrators unknown” of Javier. That’s the kind of thing that I wouldn’t put past Hillary if she was embarrassed in this way.

    And if you think that these people are the “allies” of libertarians, you’re a fool; they despise libertarians and libertarianism, and all they do is engage in useless posturing.

  35. This isn’t bullying. You can’t really bully the second most powerful person in the country. He always has more power than you.

    Except, yeah, it kind of is. If you’re going to say it’s not, then I’d pose a simple question – what sort of pushback from Pence would you consider perfectly acceptable and not be here this morning complaining about what an awful person Mike Pence is for doing so? If you can’t provide an answer to that, I have to assume that your position is that he was morally obligated to sit there and accept an angry lecture without any chance to respond or defend himself (essentially what he did). But, when you’re saying some people should be able to give others angry lectures with no opportunity to respond, Robby, you’re advocating for bullying.

    To be sure, the cast of Hamilton have every right to be assholes. But that doesn’t make them any less assholes.

    1. It’s okay as long as you’re “punching up”. Kind of like how those uppity Muslim bashers at Charlie Hebdo had it coming to them.

  36. “3. As evidence of the fact that the statement wasn’t “offensive” (and who cares if it was?), I would cite the fact that Pence wasn’t offended.”

    Maybe he was just being gracious. Nah, that doesn’t happen anymore.

    1. Yeah, if I call my black friends (if I had any) the n-word, and they’re not offended by it, is it okay?

  37. Libertarians and other advocates of a free society should recognize that those inclined to resist Trump and Pence are allies, and that includes the cast of Hamilton?.

    I see know reason whatsoever to recognize something that I don’t believe to be true. And I’d say the majority of those inclined to “resist” Trump and Pence are in no way allies of a free society. A large portion of their criticism is that he isn’t inclined to use the government to coerce people the way they want him to.

  38. RE: 10 Things Libertarians Need to Know About Trump and Pence, Hamilton, and Political Correctness
    It’s absolutely fine for actors to use their platform to criticize the president or vice president after a performance.

    1. Trump is an asshole. We all know that.
    2. Political correctness is a form of censorship. We all know that.
    3. The play “Hamilton” is only a play. How good it is we don’t know.
    4. The crew of the play has to a right to express their opinions.
    5. The VP has a right to his opinion also.
    6. Who cares what Pence and the crew of the play thinks?

  39. RE: 10 Things Libertarians Need to Know About Trump and Pence, Hamilton, and Political Correctness
    It’s absolutely fine for actors to use their platform to criticize the president or vice president after a performance.

    1. Trump is an asshole. We all know that.
    2. Political correctness is a form of censorship. We all know that.
    3. The play “Hamilton” is only a play. How good it is we don’t know.
    4. The crew of the play has to a right to express their opinions.
    5. The VP has a right to his opinion also.
    6. Who cares what Pence and the crew of the play thinks?

  40. “The actor’s statement wasn’t even particularly mean-spirited. Rather, it expressed well-founded concerns about the kinds of policies President Trump has vowed to enact. Trump has promised to deport immigrants, bar Muslims from entering the country, and generally sides with the police over communities of color. It’s perfectly legitimate for members of those groups to be worried?and for their allies to be worried, on their behalf.”

    1) Trump has not promised to deport immigrants, he’s proposed deporting illegal migrants. Very, very different.

    2) He proposed a temporary ban on muslims entering the country until the govt could “figure out what’s going on”.

    3) I’m not surprised he sides with police, afaik there is no evidence that “communities of color” receive any worse treatment from police than white Americans.

    1. Bingo. And I might add:

      1. This is actually part of the constitutionaly mandatedrole of the federal government.

      2. Completely legal. Carter did something very similar during the Iranian revolution.

      3. For any of Trump’s faults, I’ve seen nothing from him that would indicate an unwillingness to prosecute a dirty cop were there evidence to do so.

  41. Can we stop giving so much power to the people from a God damn musical? For one, nobody outside of celebrities, politicians, and Buzzfeed writers has seen the damn thing in the first place. And also, once it does actually go on tour, no one will see it anyway…because it’s a fucking musical and even the most successful one will still hit a limited audience

    1. people who think they’re cultured for loving Hamilton might as well consider themselves cultured for loving Disney’s Alladin.

      1. …you’re my only friend, Abu!

  42. ‘The broader message is “Your resistance to my behavior is the reason I behave this way in the first place.”‘

    That cuts both ways.

    If you embrace a victimhood mentality such that everyone who doesn’t do what you want is abusing you, then you can e plain away any resistance to that idea as the brainwashing manipulations of the abuser.

    Confirmation bias gonna bias.

  43. “Libertarians and other advocates of a free society should recognize that those inclined to resist Trump and Pence are allies, and that includes the cast of Hamilton?.”

    No, they are not allies. I listened for eight years about how I’m a racist for criticizing Obama, and then two years about how I’m sexist for not loving Hillary. Of course they want Libertarians as allies now, like they did in the Bush years. They won’t want us as allies when Democrats retake the White House.

    1. I see this as an opportunity to ratchet up an anti-communism sentiment and push these people down. The rioting, the threats…….all valid pretexts to do this.

      1. Well that’s just racists…. *continues polishing AR-10*

  44. Libertarians and other advocates of a free society should recognize that those inclined to resist Trump and Pence are allies.

    No, they are not allies. They are tools to be used to achieve libertarian goals, and even then it’s a highly questionable whether this tactic will actually be effective (police reform is going so well now that the left and BLM have turned it into a ‘YOU’RE RACIST’ argument, right?).

    There is no libertarian goal here. The Hamilton cast is free to say these things. Trump and Pence are not going to suppress them with political power (and the fact that they won’t further invalidates the idiocy of the Hamilton cast’s position). If they did there would be an actual libertarian argument to make. Get back to me when they’re targeted by the IRS for this.

    Give up on the moronic “we’re allies with the liberals now” argument Robby. They don’t see us as allies, and if we’re smart we won’t see them as such either. Four years from now if their chosen candidate is elected they’ll go right back to demonizing us as the deranged anti-government monsters. You don’t trust the scorpion, it’s in its nature to sting you.

    1. Agreed. Robby doesn’t seem to remember that these people he’s trying to characterize as ‘allies’ are the same people who, while in power, tried to use the justice department prosecute (persecute?) the very organization for which he works because they (erroneously) characterized the Reason Foundation as spreading ‘global warming denialism’, something anyone who reads Bailey’s articles know is an absurd accusation.

      These ‘allies’ of ours will jump at the opportunity shut down Reason, Cato, etc. via racketeering charges for organized wrongthink should they get the authority to do so again.

  45. “…liberals cheered the cast of Hamilton for exercising their free speech rights to stand up on behalf of marginalized Americans who have every reason to fear a Trump presidency,…”

    Uh, WHAT reasons?
    Bull
    .
    .
    .
    .
    shit.

  46. Hi all, long time lurker, first time poster!

    In regards to people defending this as a free speech issue:

    If a member of the ~audience~ had stood up and done this, would this still be defended from the stand point of it being ok to interrupt the performance because it is an important issue and VPe Pence needed to be confronted by the issue?

    If the above is not ok (tbh I don’t believe that it would be) then should it really be different since it was the cast that did it?

    If VPe Pence ~hadn’t~ been ok with the method of delivery or message that was being sent to him and decided to defend himself, ~at the time~, how long before the back and forth wouldn’t have been considered ok? (Hint, use message boards as a proxy as to how long, and how entrenched people can become in defense of themselves and their positions)?

    And take the above question one step further. What if the cast had directed that message at (insert favored non-elected person such as family member, or even supporter, of VPe Pence or Pe Trump)? If the message is a good message, then shouldn’t it be good no matter to whom it is directed at? Or is it that the message doesn’t matter so much so long as it can be made personal?

    All across the country, people are being harassed, accosted and assaulted for having different political beliefs. At what point should the rules for civility start rising to govern society?

    1. All across the country, people are being harassed, accosted and assaulted for having different political beliefs.

      Let’s not pussyfoot around here: all across the country, Hillary supporters are harassing, accosting, and assaulting Trump supporters. This is more of the same.

  47. Noticing that only people against PC are the ones claiming that Trump won as a backlash to PC doesn’t prove or disprove anything.
    Either of these things could very well be true:

    1. Anti PC people are over-fitting their pet theory to explain Trump’s win.

    2 Pro PC people are ignoring the truth that Trump won due to his anti PC stance because they don’t want to admit that PC might be a problem.

    You would need evidence that can distinguish between these two, and the evidence Robby cites does not.

  48. Robby: while the cast had the legal right to do so (more accurately, there’s properly no law preventing them from doing so), it was rude. Members of the audience are the show’s guests, and it’s just plain rude for the host to single out and lecture (putting it politely) a guest (except for situations where the guest(s) did something during the event to warrant a response).

  49. Who knew Trump was a safe spacer!

  50. Other than that, Mr. Vice President-Elect, how did you enjoy the play?

    1. Pence: “I laughed, I cried. It was better than ‘Cats’.”

  51. It was rude and bullying behavior.
    Pence was there as a paying customer with his family. Upon being lectured from stage, he had two choices. He could either walk out, giving up his night to the preaching a-hole, or sit there and take it like a man. He choose the latter, but that does not at all excuse the fact that he was put-upon by a snot nosed bully.

    This is unacceptable behavior and should be soundly condemned as of poor class in a civil society.

  52. Unfortunately in about seven years we’ll be hungering for “incivilities” of this type and wonder what we were so bent out of shape over. This here is on the level, if not NICER, than Stevenson getting whapped on the head in Dallas in 1963. Not precisely the same circumstances, but not the end of the world. I still assert that we’re in for some very uncivil times ahead and so we’d best be prepared for it. When the borrowing gravy train, interest manipulation, and mystical money creation machine go kersplatt, snotty lectures by self important twits will seem like salad days. If Trump really wants to be a help, he’s got to let shit like this roll off and get to changing things FAST.

  53. My last word on this:

    If anyone had dared try pull a stunt like this on Barack Obama for, say, targeted assasinations or Benghazi, the resulting shitstorm would be deafening.Oprah Winfrey would be screaming again how no President in history has been treated with less respect, and the speakers will be summarily dismissed as racists.

    1. I’ll direct your attention to the shit-storm that erupted when a Supreme Court Justice silently mouthed “not true” when Obama (wrongly) chastised the court during his State of the Union address. The guy has no idea that a camera is on him at that exact moment, doesn’t make any grand gesture, he barely moves his lips. And it is an affront to all that is good and decent and holy and just. It just may be the most disrespectful moment in all of Presidential history, judging by the wailing that ensued.

      But somehow calling out a guy who is sitting quietly in the audience with a lecture in front of a full house is beyond reproach. And certainly not rude.

      It isn’t about the Hamilton cast speaking their mind. It is about the contrast with what they are prepared to hear.

  54. If actors did this to Biden would people applauding this bush league ambush the same way?

    Never mind. I’m pretty sure I know the answer to this.

  55. i disagree with ‘hamilton’, but will not boycott them, and trump is an idiot.

    it’s not that hard people.

  56. Ok Robby, I’m too late to the discussion, but here’s my 2 cents anyway:

    Nobody is outraged that some actors from a play gave the Veep-elect a lecture about their political views.

    The outrage is 100% fueled by the ocean of irony generated by an explicitly all-minority cast ( casting notices were very explicit that whites need not apply) lecturing anyone about racial inclusion.

    Particularly when they are performing in the #1 show on Broadway. Every time this is mentioned in the press, they talk about the “diverse cast” of the show. The writers, actors and supporters love to talk about how important diversity is to their show…. except it isn’t diverse. It is kinda the opposite of diverse. It is a concentration of a 12% minority population with a sprinkling of other minorities. So they say “diverse” but they mean “not white”. (which is fine, in and of itself. But when you say the whole point is being “diverse”, well…)

    The outrage is fueled by the irony of 8 years of any criticism of Obama’s policies being called racist. It wasn’t hinted at – it was explicitly stated over and over again… if you oppose Obama’s policies it is because you are a racist.

    So get your head around the optics. The very second a white guy wins the election, not only is it not racist to criticize the President, now it is suddenly racist to support the president. And then you have a “whites need not apply” cast come out and lecture the Veep on issues of race.

    1. The words “Double Standard” really don’t seem to cover it.

      Nobody gives a rat’s butt about the Veep. Heck, even Trump’s supporters have barely got a clue who he is. This is all about the continual, over-the-top, “I’m right because I’m with some aggrieved group”, “I can say this, but you can’t” hectoring that permeates the public discourse, and has for the last decade or more.

      There’s lots of attempts to distill it down to “but imagine what would have happened if they did this to Obama”. Which might be construed as a simple “it’s not fair” whine.

      But it is far more than that. It isn’t just a slight to their guy. It is a symbol of the free pass everyone has to belittle them. It is a symbol of the giant STFU card that people who don’t agree with them get to pull out any time they speak.

    2. The outrage is 100% fueled by the ocean of irony generated by an explicitly all-minority cast ( casting notices were very explicit that whites need not apply) lecturing anyone about racial inclusion.

      I’m not sure that’s even irony; it just strikes me as nonsensical.

    3. You don’t understand what the fuck you’re talking about. Whites can’t be victims of racism. You know how you’ve never been disadvantaged because you are white? Think about that real hard.

      Oh my god this place.

      1. “Whites can’t be victims of racism”

        Progs are so stupid.

  57. Did I arrive at Reason or Huffington Post?

  58. Did I arrive at Reason or Huffington Post?

  59. Pence should have jumped on stage and given a rebuttal.

    1. What *kind* of rebuttal?

      1. With his butt, of course.

  60. Hamilton is revisionist history with minority Americans playing white historical figures. It’s the sort of artificial diversity that’s far removed from the reality.

    People come to American because it’s a decent place to live with fun around every corner (the malls, Disneyland, etc). And when they arrive, they’ll likely settle in immigrant packed urban zones where their language is spoken and their way of life is already established. My family is within reach of every “Asian town” in LA and OC and my parents can exist in America almost as if they never left Korea.

    It’s human nature to be with your OWN people. Because they speak your language, share a cultural bond, and went through the same crap in life that happens to your people. It’s how they preserve their cultural identity. If Americans were a sizable presence in France they would live close to each other grill hot dogs and hamburgers every 4th of July.

    So yes, no one really cares about diversity. My mom won’t say “Let’s try some of that greasy ass American soul food because I want to be diverse” – not when there are decent Korean BBQ joins all over the place. She won’t pay a thousand bucks to see a play because it has a lot of blacks and Latinos. People just don’t think like this. Giving people the freedom to live their lives is what counts.

    1. Well wrote,you saved me the trouble of researching the play.I might add that Hamilton was fervent Federalist & really an enemy of our Founders principles of freedom.

  61. “This isn’t bullying. You can’t really bully the second most powerful person in the country. He always has more power than you.”
    And yet, somehow this doesn’t stop Hillary or Barack from being “oppressed” despite being the one of the most powerful people in the country (formerly, at least) and the most powerful person, respectively.

    1. Always with the special pleading.

      Self righteous prickery for me, but not for thee.

      The problem is that the Right let’s them get away with it and never fights back in kind.

      Tit for tat.

      The Left may never stop at all, but they certainly will never stop as long as they are never made to pay a price for it.

      1. Yes the right has been positively gentlemanly when talking about the left. Rush Limbaugh’s fat jowls practically clench themselves in restraint whenever the subject of liberals comes up.

  62. The best way to “stop Trump” is to vote for someone else in 2020…

  63. And, turn-about is fair play.

  64. I disagree in part. Art is special because it can get past our defenses and change our hearts. That’s different from propaganda, which only pisses people off. I think this actor stepped over that line, and in so doing destroyed whatever good effect the famously multi-cultural “Hamilton” may have done Pence.

  65. It’s absolutely fine for actors to use their platform to criticize the president or vice president after a performance.

    What horseshit.

    You *know* that the Left, including The Hair, would go apeshit if the Right ever pulled this crap on a captive audience.

    Ready to have Christian Fundamentalists condemn the sin of Unbelievers in public venues, Robby?

    It’s always the same with the Left. Special pleading that it’s ok when they do it, outrage when it is done to them.

    SJ is a disease. Reason is infected.

    1. Christian fundamentalists condemn the sins of unbelievers in public all the fucking time. What the hell are you talking about? So what, you live in a rightwing bubble where liberals are bashed as nearly inhuman on a constant basis, yet you don’t notice any of it?

      If conservatives weren’t so fucking dumb maybe they could pull together some manner of stage production and then we’d have apples to apples.

      My god you people are proto-Nazis and you don’t even fucking realize it because you’re too fucking dumb to.

      You do get that this is an expression of free speech? Or are you too delicate a little flower to allow for that if it offends your new dear leader?

      1. See this right here–

        “My god you people are proto-Nazis and you don’t even fucking realize it because you’re too fucking dumb to.”

        I was thinking this just the other night.

        The left has worked so incredibly hard at distancing themselves from national socialism, so hard at hiding that horrifying inconvenient truth that they didn’t even blink when the media and the leftist talking heads were touting Bernie’s ‘socialist nationalism’ as a description of the ‘democratic socialism that Sanders intended to implement.

        But you watch the world–the people who voted for Trump are STILL afraid to say so–because they could lose their jobs, or be attacked…..or lose their friends.

        On 11/9 Kristallnacht got a reprise.

        Tony, there’s a reason you’re wearing that black outfit with the fashionable silver skulls on it–and it’s not because you’re a goth.

        Oh, look, the label says ‘Hugo Boss’

  66. Society is made possible by a number of cease fires in our political competition.

    Honesty
    Reciprocity
    Rule of Law
    Even handedness

    The Left violates all these. Dishonest media. Lawlessness. Relentless bias for their side. Doxing. Trying to get people fired. Instead of arguing, practice the politics of personal destruction pour encourager les autres.

    One of the basic principles for polite society is not to intrude your self righteous moral condemnations into every fucking interaction in life. Because, guess what? We think you’re scumbags too.

    The Left are fundamentally civilizational arsonists who use the commitment to norms of civilized society against the civilized who out of innocence and habit mistake these thugs with civilized behavior.

    One way cease fire is surrender
    One way rule of law is subjection
    One way civility is submission

    Time to fight back in kind.
    Tit for tat.

    1. And Donald Trump is the exemplar of civilized behavior?

  67. You can’t really bully Robby Soave because he is a cum-guzzling fuck-bag who always swallows more cum than you.

    The retarded fetus should have been aborted. As for his future date with a wood-chipper, I won’t shed a tear, my dear.

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  71. I know little about this play but its popularity makes me suspicious of its message.This little tirade is just NYC mentality demonstrated & Pence laughed it off,as The Donald should have.

  72. This is what you commie-lites don’t get.
    I’m sitting in the audience. My seat sucks. All seats in the Richard Rogers theater suck. All Broadway theater seats suck.
    The show was interesting. Now you wanna take your damn bows? Okay, okay. Yay! Hurrah!!! We clap — oh, oh! Don’t forget about the standing O, the obligatory standing O, the standing O because you sang some songs with a modicum of skill. The standing O that I’m compelled to make because the guy next to me stands and his ass is a foot from my face. Did I say the dance numbers were mediocre? Whatever. Not a bad show. Please.. everyone, we’re done. Stop with the standing O, ‘cuz I wanna go. I do. I paid my money. It’s over. I’m going for a late dinner and Times Square is gonna be tighter than Obama’s first inauguration. I want out! Phew… done, over with. Thankfully. Let me out now. Oh… oh.. what’s this? Jesus… what the hell is saying while everyone is standing? We’re packed like rats. Let… me… the f–k out!!! I can’t believe what I’m hearing. You got your freaking standing O and now you want to pontificate?!
    I don’t want your half baked, empty calls for tolerance. You are the least tolerant bunch of crackpots in mid-town. I’m libertarian. Do your thing. But not while I’m stuck in this place, you assholes. My dinner awaits.
    Jesus Christ, go backstage and get your damn costumes off, and let the stage hands clean the damn props and vacuum the floor.
    Leave me the f—k alone!

    1. I meant “you commie-lites” as in those doing the lecturing in the theater.

  73. I don’t really have a problem with the cast making a statement like this. As Pence said, it is their right. However, I fail to see how a rant like this will do anything but push away people who don’t already believe it. Instead of saying they are “alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights”, they could have said something like “We may not agree with all of the things your candidate said on the campaign trail, but we are willing to give you a chance. We hope you will uphold our American values and to work on behalf of all of us.”

    It seems much more likely to me that an olive branch will go a lot longer toward influencing policy than scolding will.

  74. “The point is to stop Trump…” Wait, what? No, it isn’t. The point is to stop political tyranny and power over-reach by ANY US president or administration, regardless of their ideology. This would be true even if Gary Johnson or Rand Paul had won, although I suspect they wouldn’t be as opposed to it as Trump or Hillary would be.

    This focus on Trump means people are refusing to face the reality of the excessive power US politicians have, and the manipulation and abuse of the electoral system. As long as people are talking Trump-this and Trump-that, it means they have failed to learn any worthwhile lessons from this election. Trump is the bogeyman, never mind the system behind the curtains that allowed Trump to become President.

  75. The reason that stunts like what was done after the “Hamilton” show drive people towards idiots like Trump is that these statements are continuous in the culture. When I go to a movie or a play or a museum I’m there for the show, not the political prattling of people who couldn’t spell “Constitution” protesting things they don’t understand.

    This shit never ends. Turn on any of the DC Comics based TV shows and you hear the same message every episode “An individual can’t accomplish anything, he needs a team.” “We must save our city”. Cities and teams, teams and cities, the individual is nothing. An episode of “Legends of Tomorrow” had Damien Darhk, a thoroughly evil character, as an “adviser” to Ronald Reagan. Do you think you’ll ever see a show where Lex Luthor advises Barack Obama?

    This is why political stunts like the Hamilton nonsense drive people to vote for anything that will make the continuous haranguing stop. No one wants to hear that they’re racist exploiters of minorities, that they are impotent, that their lives are meaningless, that only cities are important and that people they admire are in league with monsters.

  76. Reading the statement, it sounded fairly innocuous. Hearing and seeing the tone in which the statement was delivered showed more hostility, even anger, toward Pence than simply reading the words. I have to change my opinion and call the actor’s statement offensive.

    1. I find Pence’s government-mandated gay conversion therapy offensive.

  77. Soave, I’m from some other camp, sort of, and yet I find myself agreeing with your stuff over and over. And this time — this article — we’re not talking mutual polemics at all but speculation, analysis, differentiation. A chance not to be simple-minded. Clean, wry. Very nice.

  78. i think you have three groups. first, the people who just think it was bad manners generally. second, those who are of the opinion that going to a show carries with it basic expectations about what to expect and they have a right not to be bombarded with anything too far removed from that. and lastly, those who are just tired of having a segment of the population tell them that they should feel bad/scared because someone else won. the last group has been going around since election day acting as if they have to reassure us all and/or are saving the nation somehow. people had enough of that on about day three, if not sooner.

  79. “It’s absolutely fine for actors to use their platform to criticize the president or vice president after a performance.”

    John Wilkes Boothe, however, may have taken this a bit too far.

  80. I don’t know about you, but if I am paying good money for some kind of entertainment show or sporting event; I don’t expect that to turn into a political lecture, much less the entertainers turning their attention to me. The exception to that rule if its a comedian known for being outspoken politically, or being one of those comedians that roasts their audience. Sure, the Hamilton people have their free speech rights; but I think I should have my right to a refund if I were there as well. But off course thats just my opinion, I could be wrong.

    With that being said, Donald Trump is a big baby who just can’t let this go. Yeah, it was stupid for the Hamilton people to lecture Mike Pence, but come on dude, let it go already. From a tactics point of view, whatever votes liberals lose from the Hamilton backlash, they’ll get more than that back from Trump’s thin skin. Also, the more he lashes out everytime people “insult” him, the more people will want to mess with him even more.

  81. Unstated is the concrete fact that people who voted for Trump because of the menace of political correctness are fucking morons.

    1. but yet still understand the world better than you.

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