'We Have Two Parties Right Now That Have Abandoned All Pretenses at Realism About Our $20 Trillion National Debt and About Our Entitlements'

Matt Welch assesses Hillary Clinton's absurd "I do not add a penny to the national debt" claim on Stossel

Last Friday I appeared for the full episode of Fox Business Network's great weekly program Stossel, on which I was joined in conversation with the libertarian legend by Trump supporter Betsy McCaughey and Clintonite Jessica Tarlov for a full hour on the election, the final presidential debate, and the issues that no longer get discussed intelligently because the major parties have both coughed up unreconstructed statists. Among those issues are entitlements and the massive national debt, the latter of which, Hillary Clinton claimed at the debate, she would not "add a penny to." Here is my response to that nonsense:

For more on this not-insignificant topic, please see my recent article "Debt Denialists: Democrats and Republicans fiddle while the balance sheet burns."

Comments

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Have I mentioned I like Stossel?

[Swiss Servator]

....Maybe.

[The Fusionist]

I would guess that if you guys are on Facebook, you're going to be hearing about Johnson's Guardian interview.

[SIV]

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Do you cosmos want to regain some self respect after your terribly misguided support for GayJay? VOTE TRUMP

[The Fusionist]

Two can play at that game.

All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

[EDG reppin LBC]

How are things going, Mr. Torrance?

[The Fusionist]

He's a poseur.

"Ooh, look, I took all winter to write the same sentence over and over for 200 pages!"

I did the same thing in a couple hours, then I had the rest of the winter to chase my family around the lodge and the hedge maze. It was great healthful exercise for all of us!

[EDG reppin LBC]

A spirited jog around the grounds in a sub-freezing blizzard while carrying a 5 pound axe is a heck of a workout. It's the original crossfit.

[Rhywun]

Watch the entire cringe-inducing five-minute video

No.

[UCrawford]

I'll save you the trouble. It was one of the most painful things I've ever seen. I decided awhile ago to vote for Trump, but I voted for Johnson in 2012 and if I'd seen that video back then I would have cast a ballot for Romney in a heartbeat.

It was like watching a man with Alzheimer's shit himself in public. I'm not saying that to be snide...I had to keep turning it off because it bothered me that much and I felt bad for him. I sincerely question his mental stability at this point.

[Pan Zagloba]

God, I tried. Twice. Made it to 2:40 or so.
Fucking hell, GJ. Fucking. Hell.

Though he does raise a good question - if he's so low in the polls, why the video?

[Rhywun]

The smug write-up and the fact that it's the Guardian makes me think it's just another hatchet job. It's not?

[Brochettaward]

It's definitely a hatchet job. The video is highly edited, the interviewer is antagonistic and does his damndest to play dense even when Johnson gives him a more substantive answer than anything I've heard from Hillary throughout this entire campaign. The article from Mother Jones itself is highly misleading as that's not how the actual sequence plays out.

I mean, Johnson says he'd implement tax policies, interviewer says most of the world's economists disagree with him, and then Johnson says he doesn't want to argue with the guy.

[Rhywun]

Yeah, I'll pass.

[GILMORE?]

Johnson says he doesn't want to argue with the guy.

That's the spirit!

Isn't that the *definition* of campaigning? = ""Defending your own policy positions and arguing with those who believe differently are stupid dishonest and Hate America?""

I mean, the nice way you do it is say,

"If you believe that, then you misunderstood what you read because economic consensus throughout history shows that you can't spend your way to growth anymore than you can pay for one credit card with another one"

Even if that doesn't make particular sense - the entire point of campaigning is to throw out folksy explanations that make your critic looks misinformed and deceptive. You trump their appeal to authority ('Top Men Say...') with basic earthy wisdom.

On top of that, it just amazes me he keeps pretending like *he's* supposed to treat these journalists fairly; its like he's blissfully unaware that they plan to make him look like an idiot any time the camera is pointed at him. He should do what ever other Pol since the dawn of time has done, which is ignore what they say and simply use every opportunity to repeat your pitch and slag your opponents as liars.

I've stopped being surprised by Gary's incompetence, but remain stunned that no one even tries to coach him about this shit

[GILMORE?]

...arguing *that*...

[kilroy]

Read this.

Pretty spot on IMO.

[GILMORE?]

Johnson often comes off as if he wants everybody to like him.

Or that he hasn't grasped that millions of people *are being paid* to hate him. It doesn't *matter* if they actually like him. They're still going to try and destroy him regardless.

it's a dangerous vulnerability in a political candidate sparring with those journalists who are just doing their jobs?let alone hostile interviewers

Ding ding ding.

[kilroy]

eah. He's a good guy (I think) who genuinely wants to fix the problems of this country but is woefully unprepared for the realities of running for the POTUS. He's the best candidate by far but that doesn't seem to matter if you can't play the media's game.

[kilroy]

Where the fuck's my leading "Y"?

[UCrawford]

I disagree that he's the best candidate in the race. His policy page is boilerplate, he struggles to defend his policies, he's consistently unfocused and seems confused in interviews. If I were going third party in this election, I'd vote for Jill Stein before Johnson...and I agree with Stein about pretty much nothing except how we shouldn't intervene in Syria.

[Suthenboy]

*facepalm*

This is a guy who started his campaign by having his photo taken while he holds a torn piece of cardboard with 'vote for me' scrawled on it in magic marker. It looks like the photo was snapped outside a restaurant where he had his lunch. The man was never a serious candidate.

I will give him this, he polled a lot higher than I ever thought he would and he did bring up some important topics. Also, now everyone knows what a leppo is.

[GILMORE?]

Interviewer says most of the world's economists disagree with him

I'm also pretty sure the guys list of the "World's Economists" is something like "Paul Krugman, Thomas Pickettey, and Joe Stiglitz"

[Hyperion]

Of course. Most of the economists in the world means most of the economists who agree with him that communism is a great idea, again.

[Suthenboy]

Best answer: Flat, monotone "They aren't running for president. I am."

[Pan Zagloba]

Of course it is. But he is the one supplying the hatchet, after he sharpened it. It's like something out of UK version of The Office.
Though to be more fair to him, in retrospect, the video is cut like a shaky-cam fight scene, so maybe he couldn't win.

[Brochettaward]

The Guardian does their damndest to portray him as awkward and angry, and Johnson did his best to give them what they wanted. He looked angry right from the start of the video.

The article itself is bullshit. Johnson does get into specifics and thoughts on tax policy. It's an awful hit piece.

He at one point asks why they are covering him if he's doing so poorly. Well, Johnson, yes, they are there to dance on your grave and pilfer off every last left-leaning vote they can for Hillary. Brilliant strategy you had there...

[Pan Zagloba]

I don't blame him. In all the Trump-mania, I forgot how any vaguely libertarian idea (Holy Trinity of pot, ass sex and Mexicans excepted, of course) is utterly insane to The Guardian set.

"HOW U EBOLISH INCUM TAX? HOW STATE GET INCOME THEN?! YOU STUPID!!!!!"

[Possible Bot]

He's so awkward and can say sensible things and make them sound stupid.

Definitely a hit piece with "we scoured the world and couldn't find economists to agree with abolishing an income tax."

Fucking hell, any retard who can add 2+2 can figure out that the income tax abolishment is certainly feasible if spending matches. This countries existence proves that. I know you can find some to say it's a good idea, and at least many others to say it's contingent on the spending. Not that argumentum ad populum is proof of anything anyway.

[Unintended Consequence]

NPR (of all people!) found a consensus among economists to abolish the income tax, lol.

http://www.npr.org/sections/mo.....c-platform

[Libertarian]

The Guardian makes Hillary look like Barry Goldwater.

[Glide]

You know, I'm not against pointing out how bad at campaigning Johnson is, but I'm not really bothered by that video at all. They sent someone out with the totally unsupported questions "why are you failing so hard" and "why are you campaigning on a tax plan that generic top men say doesn't work". He answered the second with a pretty fair point about how generic top men didn't support drug legalization until yesterday. He cited some specific state polls to distract from his own poll numbers.

I did think it was really douchey of him to grouse about the spoiler question, then call McMuffin a spoiler.

[Free Society]

Christ he's acting out the worst caricature of libertarians.

"Tell me about your tax policy."

"Legal pot!"

"Yeah but..."

"Legal pot! Leadership. I'm super smart."

[Rich]

"I do not add a penny to the national debt"

and "I'm not here to take away your guns."

Put on your Clinton-speak hat when you listen to this crap.

[EDG reppin LBC]

"I did not have sex with that woman."

[Juvenile Bluster]

I voted today, for some reason. Can I skip the next two weeks now?

Can I skip the next four years now?

[The Fusionist]

What I do is, I get the "I voted" sticker and put it on my toilet as a kind of subtle message to myself.

[Aloysious]

Good job, Matt. I'm even going to get you name right tonight.

[You ARE a Prog (MJG)]

Yeah, Walsh did good.

[EDG reppin LBC]

Walt Marsh.

[Hyperion]

Is he the goofy one with glasses? I thought it was Weld Matthews?

[GILMORE?]

My favorite parts? are when the spokespeople each begin their bullshit claims...& then cut each other off with new lies before the other person's lies are finished. I think that's what they mean by "National Dialogue"

[GILMORE?]

I presume they never got to a part where they let matt explain why "Help small business" and "raise minimum wage" are inherently contradictory.

[Possible Bot]

If you raise the minimum wage people have more money. Then people spend that money on businesses who pay taxes. Then we have more tax money for schools. Better schools means people make more money. /Krugman

[MarkLastname]

Like two people pooping back and forth forever

[R C Dean]

It's the economic version of the human centipede.

[Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair]

If you were to confiscate ALL the wealth of the rich, you wouldn't even make up one year's deficit. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet -- not even close.

And if you did try to confiscate all that wealth, all you'd have is government ownership of factories and warehouses and ships and airliners, businesses all over the world. But that's not money, it's not the kind of cash you could balance the budget with (and then just once!), and if you actually wanted to turn it into cash, you'd have to sell it -- but everyone who could have bought it has had all their own wealth confiscated.

It's so fucking stupid.

[Brochettaward]

If the yokel rallying cry is, "They took err jerbs!", then we need to come up with something similar for the "fair share" crowd.

[Hyperion]

They still have part of my stuff!

[GILMORE?]

is "Fuck off, slaver" not catchy enough?

[Hyperion]

Well, no worries. Hillary has no plan to do that. What did you think she meant when she said 'Yes we can raise taxes on the middle class' to a cheering crowd of brain dead morons?

[kbolino]

If you were to confiscate ALL the wealth of the rich, you wouldn't even make up one year's deficit. Bill Gates, Warren Buffet -- not even close.

If you are liberal enough with your definition of "rich", then yes there is enough wealth (on paper) to pay off the entire debt. Not just this year's deficit, or change in the debt, but the whole balance. U.S. household wealth is at something like $85 trillion while the debt is only $20 trillion.

I think you are confusing wealth with income here. If you taxed income over $250,000 at 100% then (again, on paper) you would only increase revenue enough to pay off about 3/4 of the deficit this year, or less than 3/8 of the increase in debt.

Now, the more important point is that if you did either of these things, all of that paper wealth/income would disappear pretty quickly.

This is easier to show with income. Why would anyone make more than $250,000 if they didn't get to keep a penny over $250,000? Even a 75% tax has a noticeable deterrent effect, as France and many other countries have shown. The only feasible way to close the deficit by tax increases alone is to substantially flatten the rate schedule, i.e. hike taxes on the vast majority of Americans, or to combine any income tax increase with an increase in taxes elsewhere, with everyone suffering the consequences accordingly.

[kbolino]

Looking at wealth now, most of it is in real estate or tied up in other investments. The government cannot liquidate those easily. A forced sell-off of trillions in assets would devalue them drastically. I'd be amazed if, before too long, all those icky rich people's mansions were selling at 10% of their originally assessed value. There's not enough cash to keep their prices afloat, and simple supply-demand dynamics will drive prices downward. No doubt communists would see this as a net gain to society, but the following collapse of the entire housing market would basically gut the economy. Good luck getting paid or withdrawing your balance when everybody is underwater on their house and banks are closing left and right. You won't get much help from the FDIC since their liquid assets are already drying up right now in the real world.

End result: Zimbabwe, Venezuela

[Rhywun]

OT: Tyler Perry just told me that 15,000,000 children are starving in the streets of America.

Gosh, we ought to do something about that.

[EDG reppin LBC]

America's starving children are obese.

[Hyperion]

Corporashunz are killing them on purpose with GMOs!

[Hyperion]

Again? This is obviously good news. Add that to the 45 million who died in the streets over the year before Obamacare was passed for lack of health insurance, we've now thinned the herd by about one fifth of the population. All us hoarders, wreckers, and orphan merchants are going to have to do is wait a couple of more years and American will be all ours! The South East is mine, would you like Texas?

[kilroy]

Fuck you. I claim Georgia as my protectorate. Also, I have some openings in my orphan mines for any starving locals. Some restrictions apply.

[Sevo]

Clinton and Trump suck canal water.
Johnson not so much.

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

Sevo. Jonhson/Weld suck canal water too.

SMOD 2016 !!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlKrrZwVnDg

[Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair]

Yes, but not so much.

[Hyperion]

Gary Johnson is silly. Gary Johnson is not evil. He embarrasses me, but really doesn't scare me too much.

[Rhywun]

'Tis a silly election.

[MarkLastname]

What a bunch of thilly gootheth

[Hyperion]

Well, at least Hillary's going to at least make an effort to pay for all the existing free shit and all the new free shit by taxing the living shit out of you. A+ for effort, right?

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

I have own reasons for pulling the Trump lever. It's the first time ever for me voting for a major party candidate.

Not that my vote matters, but I want to see riots, and much weeping, gnashing of teeth, ect.

=D

[kilroy]

Federal matching funds are based on the popular vote in the general election, so your vote could actually count, at least in that regard.

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

I'm cool with people voting for Jonhson/Weld for that reason. I have just seen to much smug from Democrats, and fake Jonhson/Libertarian votes over the past 16 years. I just want to see chaos, and I have prepared for it.

Oh long Jonhson !!!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkwiQmGWK4c

[kilroy]

If one of the shitstains has to win I'd prefer it be Trump, for reasons I'm too drunk to enumerate right now. Mostly I think he's the most likely candidate for gridlock. I'll be voting for Johnson personally.

"Why pick the left nut or the right nut when you can have the Johnson!" - some chick on the twitterz

Gridlock/2016!

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

Yes. =D

[Timon 19]

Why do you keep spelling Gary's name "Jonhson"?

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

Bring the leaf.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jet3l7tJ1o

[AddictionMyth]

I'm voting for Trump. Well actually I'm gonna say I'm voting for Trump and then head over to Wendy's to check out the new bacon thing. Have you seen the commercials for it? Looks amazing! There's no point in voting - the whole thing's rigged. But I sure as heck am going to riot with the Trumpkins. This might be our last chance before Hillary sics her police state goons on us.

[Hyperion]

No one will riot if Hillary is elected. If Trump wins, I fully expect riots until the first week of the month and then a couple of Walmarts being trashed, and then back to the normal peaceful demanding of more free shit.

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

The funny thing is that it's the Hillary supporters that are stealing signs, and vandalizing private property.
The media has got them unhinged.
If Trump wins the ultra violence is going to be glorious !!!!
=D

[MarkLastname]

And if course progs response to the havoc of the riots would be "look what trump made us do!!! He's tearing us apart!"

No matter though, he's not going to win.

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

Bring it.

heheh =D

[Hyperion]

So I just heard that Hillary is going to make Janet Reno her Secretary of State. That should turn out well.

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

Wicked
Awesome
Cook
Out

=D

[MarkLastname]

I just read she was considering Biden for that role. Which would be amusing.

[Suthenboy]

Has this been brought up around here?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/cl.....1477266114

Surely at some point the stink has to be too much even for progs, right?

[Hyperion]

Yes, I think this first broke a week or so ago. Progs don't care, they already have no morals, ethics, or principles. And they aren't about to grow any. They just get worse by the day. No matter what she does, they will excuse it or even cheer it on.

[Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair]

Semi-OT: Someone just repeated a facebook rant about why Obamacare premiums went up so much -- a grid of pictures of insurance companies and how much money they made, with the clear implication that it is corporate greed as usual.

I posted "Amazing. The more government controls something, the more it's not their fault."

And the wailing and gnashing of teeth was righteous! Sometimes facebook is worth more than just a way to keep up with dispersed family.

[Hyperion]

It's never the government's fault. Corporations just buy them off. And I mean, they don't want to be bought off, but they have no choice. The corporations have tanks and nuclear weapons, or something like that.

[Scarecrow & WoodChipper Repair]

Oooh, and a new post by the same fellow, this time how disgusting it is that AT&T sold privacy info to the government. Dozens of comments agreeing on corporashunz are evul. So I dropped in a comment on how they should be ashamed of themselves for blaming the seller when the buyer (the government) is the one with the armed thugs that sets the terms of the deal. It will be fun to go back in a few minutes and see how many freaks get freaked out.

Yes, woke up early on my weekend, and amusing myself with facebook trolls. Pretty pathetic overall, but still fun.

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

Fuck the debt.
It's not my debt.
I would rather be killed by death.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7-sbiGlzw

[Agammamon]

'We Have Two Parties Right Now That Have Abandoned All Pretenses at Realism About Our $20 Trillion National Debt and About Our Entitlements'

Right now? I think you mean 'for the last seventy years'.

[Glide]

Good job Welch, you sounded like you were actually there to talk policy instead of just take a hatchet to the evil candidate and shield the good candidate like the ladies were.

Clinton's position is at least self-consistent. It is: spend some more, tax some more, fuck you for worrying about debt.
Trump's, to be generous, seems to be that if our taxes are low enough, we won't notice when half of government spending is debt service.

[Danno]

Trump knows in the current USA society that if he does a "Ron Paul" it would kill him. So he has said "I will get better deals". A better deal would getting rid of bloated benefits and fraud and inflated prices. So Trump would be good for the debt problem. Unfortunately, Congress will be hard reverse and it is the real problem with big money cronies.

[Free Society]

BREAKING NEWS: Two major party candidates neglect to discuss an issue that voters stopped giving a fuck about over a generation ago.

[believe]

This is the first presidential election that I remember where both major party candidates stand out as liars and crooks. Thanks to the biased Democratic and Republican run debate commission, the same two cons, I mean candidates took the stage, blocking 3rd parties from equal exposure. The numbers registered as Independent has been consistently growing and the millennials out number boomers. We have a democratic system where we have the right and responsibility to elect into office candidates who we believe in. Our Constitution protects our democracy but it can't protect us from ourselves.

You can vote for either Hillary or for Donald but understand what you're getting. Hillary = manipulative lies, crony capitalism, and increased instability worldwide. Donald = liar, con, bigot, fascist, chauvinist pig, and now a whiner. No thank you, I'll vote for Johnson/Weld and I'll sleep well knowing that I didn't take part in corruption.

On experience, Johnson and Weld are the most qualified in working across party lines having been reelected Republican governors in Democratic leaning states. They have proven experience in balancing the budget, reducing taxes, and creating jobs. They support my views for term limits and military supremacy with a foreign policy based on defense.

[believe]

We face so many issues that impact our safety, economy, and personal liberties. From both H and D, we more personal attacks than policy. Issues are raised but without any plans to reform our outdated programs and infrastructure. Johnson and Weld are the only two candidates who have the guts to talk about our $19 Trillion budget deficit and failed policies here and abroad. They actually have a plan that's backed by experience to work towards change in Washington.

Yet, some will vote based on party affiliation or because that's the party they've always voted for or that their families have. Some buy into biased propaganda and media sensationalism. If we vote liars and cons into office, it'll be our loss. It's clear that many Americans are struggling, yet, they're brains have been washed. So, we don't have to swallow what the major parties want to feed us. Our Constitution protects our democracy but it can't protect us from ourselves.