Bureau of Land Management

Seven Occupiers of Oregon's Malheur Wildlife Refuge Acquitted on All Charges

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An Oregon jury today acquitted seven people being tried for their roles in the occupation of the Malheur National Wildlife Refuge earlier this year.

Gage Skidmore/Foter

All seven were facing charges for conspiring to impede federal employees through intimidation, threat or force. Four had additional charges of having guns in a federal facility, and two were charged with theft of government property.

Among the acquitted were two sons of Cliven Bundy, famous for his role in an armed standoff with federal agents in Nevada over disputes on grazing fees the Bureau of Land Management insisted he owed. (Bundy himself was arrested in February over that 2014 incident, and a trial is ahead.)

The defendants were: Ammon and Ryan Bundy, Jeff Banta, Shawna Cox, David Fry, Kenneth Medenbach, and Neil Wampler.

Seattle Times summed up the background of the case:

In closing arguments that stretched out over two days, prosecutors stressed that the defendants were not being put on trial for their beliefs, and had an absolute right to protest federal government actions. But they argued that the defendants' actions stepped over the line into a criminal conspiracy to occupy the refuge and — through the use of armed guards and other acts of intimidation — keep federal employees away from their offices south of Burns.

Bundy, in testimony on his own behalf, called the takeover a "hard stand" against the return to prison of two Oregon ranchers, Dwight Hammond Jr. and his son Steven Hammond, after a federal judge ruled that they had not served long enough sentences on arson charges.

The takeover ended peacefully as the last four occupiers surrendered on Feb. 11, but before that, on Jan. 26, LaVoy Finicum, a folksy, articulate rancher who had emerged as a spokesman for the movement, was shot to death by law-enforcement officials.

Among others arrested in connection with the case, 11 pled guilty earlier and others face their own trials ahead in February. More details on the earlier guilty pleas from Oregon Live.

Oregon Live's report from today, mostly written before re-deliberation in the case began this morning.

Oregon Public Broadcasting, which has been covering the case extensively, summed up the arguments:

The government relied heavily on testimony from law enforcement, including Harney County Sheriff David Ward, as well as dozens of FBI agents who responded to the occupation or processed evidence at the Malheur refuge after the occupation ended.

"At the end of the day, there is an element of common sense that demonstrates the guilt of these defendants," Assistant U.S. Attorney Ethan Knight said during his closing arguments during the trial. "These defendants took over a wildlife refuge and it wasn't theirs."

….the defense sought to make its case about a political protest – one about protesting the federal government's ownership and management of public lands.

"The people have to insist that the government is not our master; they are our servants," Ryan Bundy said during his closing statement to the jury.

Some interesting elements of the trial as it unfolded:

• A juror was replaced by an alternate and deliberations began from scratch this week, after a juror sent a note to the judge asking: "Can a juror, a former employee of the Bureau of Land Management, who opens their remarks in deliberations by stating 'I am very biased' be considered an impartial judge in this case?"

• One of the defense lawyers was tased and arrested in court today, according to the Seattle Times:

Ammon Bundy's attorney Marcus Mumford argued his client should be released from confinement while U.S. District Court Judge Anna Brown said he must be returned to the custody of federal marshals since he still faced charges in Nevada.

Mumford's protests in the Portland courtroom grew louder and louder until he was finally tackled and tased by marshals, according to Cox and another member of the defense's legal team. The judge ordered the courtroom cleared.

• The feds had 15 informants among or in communication with the occupiers.

It's worth remembering the behavior of the agents who shot and killed occupier LaVoy Finicum, who shot at him just as he exited his vehicle and before the notorious "reaching for a gun" motion that many in the public insisted justified the kill.

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  1. Fuck the government. That is all.

    1. I came here to say the same thing. You sir, are a GREAT AMERICAN!

    2. Would you rather feed them into woodchippers?

      1. Oh no, Ted.

        Not again.

        1. Fuck them to death… with a woodchipper!

      2. Chip, chip, hooray!

      1. Somewhat Marxist too, isn’t he?

        1. Yeah, and he’s into the Freemason/Illuminati stuff too. I was mostly focusing on the song itself being mostly Truther content, but I wish I could change it to “If only Immortal Technique wasn’t batshit insane.”

          1. The Illuminati worry me a bit, truth be told…

            But there are worsererer beasts afoot! Read on…

            Some folks are already blaming the “Islamofascists” for this, before the evidence is at all yet clear. But a very strange thing has been mysteriously cropping up on structurally essential aluminum airframe members of civilian and military aircraft alike. A radio-triggered tiny device that sprays amino acids, vitamins, minerals, lipids, carbs, etc? Pre-digested nutrients, but harmless, basically? Now WHY would anyone go to all the trouble to sneak diluted, harmless nutrients onto airframe members?!!? The “Homeland Security” types were totally baffled? They had taken these tiny little devices and analyzed them by themselves. Finally, it occurred to them to be more “holistic”, and trigger one “in situ”, in their fancy words, ya know? Trigger the device WHERE IT IS PLANTED, basically?

            So they did this safely, in a hangar, and what happened? The nutrients trigger some nearby-planted, tiny bacterial spores, spores of some sort of GMO, engineered bacteria, which are capable of making acids that digest aluminum! Bring down an aircraft, see? They are still debating a scientific name for these GMO bacteria, that serve as the root of this conspiracy, but so far they are thinking? Let’s call them the Aluminum-Eatee!!!

  2. “All seven were facing charges for conspiring to impede federal employees through intimidation, threat or force. “

    Turns out protesting the government on public property and exercising our Second Amendment rights isn’t a crime?

    Who knew?!

    I guess somebody forgot to tell this jury that whenever rednecks insist that they have Constitutional rights, they’re always wrong–especially whenever there are guns involved.

  3. Eat me BLM.

    1. Whut do ya have agin’ Black Lives Mattering? Racist!

  4. Juries are a bulwark against tyranny, glad they served that function here.

    Reading the comments on certain libera/left-wing sites it’s striking how many of them wanted these people BBQ’d Waco-style. They’re really losing their shit over this.

    1. yup, I know progs like that. They hate anti-govt groups and are perfectly fine using the government to kill them. In the same sentence they talk about black lives matter and occupy wallstreet like they are noble protests.

      We need the 2nd amendment because these fascists will send you to the ovens if they could. For the crime of not believing in their government. Since they have nothing else to believe in in life, attacking the gov’t is attacking them personally

      1. “For the crime of not believing in their government. ”

        We must ALL bleeve!!!! Lemme lead us now in prayer….

        Scienfoology Song? GAWD = Government Almighty’s Wrath Delivers

        Government loves me, This I know,
        For the Government tells me so,
        Little ones to GAWD belong,
        We are weak, but GAWD is strong!
        Yes, Guv-Mint loves me!
        Yes, Guv-Mint loves me!
        Yes, Guv-Mint loves me!
        My Nannies tell me so!

        GAWD does love me, yes indeed,
        Keeps me safe, and gives me feed,
        Shelters me from bad drugs and weed,
        And gives me all that I might need!
        Yes, Guv-Mint loves me!
        Yes, Guv-Mint loves me!
        Yes, Guv-Mint loves me!
        My Nannies tell me so!

        DEA, CIA, KGB,
        Our protectors, they will be,
        FBI, TSA, and FDA,
        With us, astride us, in every way!
        Yes, Guv-Mint loves me!
        Yes, Guv-Mint loves me!
        Yes, Guv-Mint loves me!
        My Nannies tell me so!

      2. Or the people who are protesting the pipeline in North Dakota. How come they don’t get the hate the Bundy’s got?

        1. Silly question. Rich white liberals can do anything they want. They can commit violence and destroy property like they’re doing in North Dakota over the weather, but when a bunch of rural white people do the same thing (minus the violence) over mandatory minimums and the overuse of anti-terror laws (you know the things that supposedly the Left cares about)- oh hell no!

    2. GMSM,

      I have seen some comments supporting your statements.

      While watching the video for which Brian provided a link at the end of his article*, one of the things I kept thinking of was how many individuals who obtain most of their information from corporate news outlets (regardless of the outlets’ obvious political leanings) would react to Mr. Finicum’s behavior and statements.

      I sat through a documentary going into depth regarding the events and the government agents’ actions in Waco, Texas, that you mention, and find it tragically coincidental that the local Sheriff did not incriminate the residents of the religious compound under siege, and that Mr. Finicum was on his way to a local Sheriff (whose office released the video).

      *I do not recommend watching either video, since both include footage of individuals being murdered.

    3. Reddit’s proggies were among the losing-their-shit crowd. It was common to hear them insisting that these men were terrorists. To them, protesting while armed, is “terrorism” now. They were insisting that the police should just go in with SWAT and kill them all.

      It was impossible to reason with those people, but I tried, because I am a fool. It’s one of the reasons I haven’t had anything to do with Reddit for most of this year, after having been using the site for eight years. The progs have completely taken over the whole site. It’s an infestation and nobody seems to care. They shut down all dissent gleefully and say insane shit like the above.

      1. For the love of God, why would you ever engage in the politics section of Reddit? It’s meant to be like a zoo where you see the most extreme, crazy partisans safely sealed in cages. Hell, r/libertarian’s usually a mix of goddamn insane and stupid. I’m pretty sure some of our dumbest sudden posts come from there.

        1. >For the love of God, why would you ever engage in the politics section of Reddit?

          I didn’t. /r/politics was and is a cesspool for most of the years I used Reddit.

          Those fucks have taken over the entire site. They discuss their proggie politics in practically every sub now that doesn’t actively moderate their politics out of the subs.

          /r/libertarian used to be very good years ago, similarly intelligent people as those who comment here. They’re all gone now. Everyone who kept the place respectable simply left years ago and now it’s all conspiracy theorizing and stupidity. The problem there is that the moderators are strict anarchists and don’t believe in moderating the sub at all, so big surprise that it went to shit after proggie invasions pissed all the regulars off.

          1. The problem there is that the moderators are strict anarchists and don’t believe in moderating.

            Thus, ZSG, I and every other commentator will have freedom there?

            1. “Freedom” being a rather different thing from “completely unmoderated space” on a forum.

              I do not believe in unlimited free speech on Internet forums, and neither do you. It’s practically unanimous that nobody likes spam. Spam is typically removed without prejudice, accounts banned with no appeal, etc.

              I do believe that there should be some forums where people can expect a certain amount of decorum. Act civilly and you’re free to say what you please. Act viciously and disrespect everyone there and you should eventually be thrown out if you won’t reform. Why? Because it disrupts the tranquility of the place. Having “clubs” is OK, where outsiders should respect the rules if they are invited to participate. Choosing not to moderate at all generally leads to all of your best contributors leaving in frustration because their signal is drown out by all the noise.

              Do you recall this incident? Completely disrespectful. I’d not have invited them back for a second go at me. I doubt they got a third opportunity. There is nothing different about ejecting disruptive individuals shouting at you from your club’s meeting room, and there’s nothing wrong with doing the same on some forums on the Internet.

          2. Someone showed me Reddit years and years ago – in 2008, actually. Every section was so inundated with Obama ass-kissing that I was put off forever. Haven’t been to that site since.

          3. I see it on r/civ every so often. The new Civilization game came out and some are losing their minds because you can still treat Elephants and whales as resources or luxury goods. Like illegal ivory trade is happening because people playing a game on their computer deploy a builder on a hex with a polygonal elephant.

          4. They discuss their proggie politics in practically every sub now that doesn’t actively moderate their politics out of the subs.

            r/squaredcircle is usually politics-free.

        2. Hell, r/libertarian’s usually a mix of goddamn insane and stupid.

          Try /r/goldandblack or /r/shitstatistssay.

    4. All the while this was going on the msm constantly reported that the locals were against the protest. The media reported that the populace was against the occupation of the refuge by the bundys. Liars.

      Guess where the jury pool came from? That would be the local populace. This story sends a tingle up my leg. These men are American heroes.

    5. The bulk of the fark.com comments are pretty much what I expected:
      http://www.fark.com/comments/9…..ill-dildos

    6. I just visited the AVClub’s “What’s on Tonight”, the most popular comment was a rant about this…
      I just started Black Sails and was reading their reviews (from 3 years ago). The reviewer spent most of his space bitching about a rape and the commenters actually pushed back. The writer eventually called them all rape apologists. It was fantastic. Today I would expect they would all agree and high five their superiority.

  5. There is no crime more worthy of the death penalty than not leaving some government-run office or attraction when closing hours start. This has always been a central tenet of modern liberalism, it has nothing to do with culture war or class or race at all.

    1. Those two sentences remind me of the types of ceilings I prefer – those which are well over my head.

      A brief web search revealed nothing of use to me.

      Would you care to explain it to me as if I were the person who did not understand it?

      1. Charles—just bitter irony mocking the “progressives” who are in such an inexplicable sad bloody rage over the fact that some strangers in a faraway place protesting an issue they neither understand nor care about at all are not being locked up for refusing to leave some public property.

    2. The progosphere burns tonight. They want blood, and they believe that the jury only found them innocent because they were white.

    3. I’ve had a few friends (who certainly know all about western U.S. rural land management no doubt) get the vapors over this whole episode.

      I’m surprised there’s not a national carpal-tunnel epidemic given all the pearl-clutching that’s been going on.

  6. Jury nullification must be resisted. Must. Be.

    Something must be done about the terrible common law tradition that holds that jurors are immune from punishment for their verdicts.

    (is a sarc\ required)

    1. The 4 boxes of liberty

      the soap
      the ballot box
      the jury box
      the ammo box

      Hurray for the jury for keeping this from escalating to step 4

    2. They are calling for the jury to be arrested in the wapo comments section. Their tears are delicious.

  7. Very (and pleasantly) surprised at this result.

    There is a deep double standard at work in how this whole thing was covered. That isn’t a surprise, but someone needs to explain to me why BLM can occupy government buildings with nothing happening, block traffic, cause property damage etc…But a couple of white guys (with GUNS) in an empty shack in the woods is the end of the world.

    I argued with some progs over this and they tried to tell me how dangerous and disruptive this was. Their proof? Some local schools closed for like a week in a panic. So because some school administrators are jackasses, that’s evidence of just how dangerous these guys were.

    Final note – love how dutifully the media just repeated how the convicted ranchers were arsonists. Made zero attempt to actually look at the underlying grievances or whether their version of events with the BLM was accurate.

    1. Final note – love how dutifully the media just repeated how the convicted ranchers were arsonists.

      They were convicted of unlawfully burning federal land.

      Its not the journalist’s fault for never explaining the hoops that ranchers have to jump through and the risks they take trying to manage their own land while surrounded by empty territory ruled over by a capricious and litigious federal government.

      e.g. “Pictures You Don’t See In Stories About the Malheur Folks

      Why don’t they ever actually *explain* the beef the ranchers have in simple terms that everyone can understand? Why, i can’t imagine. I’d hate to think that there’s any editorial decision to take sides in the matter.

    2. I also found it very telling that the long-fought struggle regarding the property rights of Mary and Carrie Dann were never mentioned (to my knowledge) by most media outlets. Common cause of individual rights between indigenous people and “white guys (with GUNS)”, as you wrote, doesn’t appear to fit any non-freedom loving narrative, Broch.

  8. Trial by Jury is the last line of defense against Gov’t tyranny.

    Why do you think prosecutors want to pile on as many charges as they can to force you to take a plea deal, even in cases where there’s no way a jury would convict?

    1. ” Trial by Jury is the last line of defense against Gov’t tyranny”

      Technically, there is one more option after that.

  9. there is an element of common sense that demonstrates the guilt of these defendants,” Assistant U.S. Attorney Ethan Knight said during his closing arguments during the trial

    Argumentum ad Populum

    Always the sign of a slam-dunk case

    1. “here is an element of common sense that demonstrates the guilt of these defendants,”

      Ok, so tell us what it is.

      That is really remarkable. In a trial where defendants must be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt the prosecutor actually said to the jury ‘they are guilty and everyone can see it.’.

  10. One of the defense lawyers was tased in court today, according to the Seattle Times:

    Mumford’s protests in the Portland courtroom grew louder and louder until he was finally tackled and tased by marshals, according to Cox and another member of the defense’s legal team. The judge ordered the courtroom cleared.

    Top that, Johnny Cochrane

    1. It’s at cheerful moments like these that I wish we could swap national anthems with Montenegro, no offense to the old drinking song we have for our national anthem.

      But the Star Spangled Banner would also work – if we use Verse Three.

      1. WTF, I wasn’t trying to reply to the tasing post!

  11. Finally, some good news.

  12. The people involved were still fucked over though. They just weren’t fucked over that much for protesting their fucking over.

  13. It’s at cheerful moments like these that I wish we could swap national anthems with Montenegro, no offense to the old drinking song we have for our national anthem.

    But the Star Spangled Banner would also work – if we use Verse Three.

    1. WE GOT IT.

  14. OT, but libertarians get to laugh at both of them:

    “Strange bedfellows unite to oppose California pot legalization”
    […]
    “Taking stage right were marijuana foes whose opposition is rooted in calls for morality and public safety. On the left: cannabis advocates who warn that Prop. 64 will allow corporate interests to crush mom-and-pop players in the current medical marijuana industry.”
    http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/…..418478.php

    Yep, troglodytes don’t want YOU to decide what you ingest, while the proggies are just flat in favor of screwing the customers since they’re alright, Jack.

    1. Unless the proposition states “Laws prohibiting marijuana are hereby repealed”, I’m not interested.

      It doesn’t. It’s 65 pages long. My main objection to drug laws is that I think it’s wrong to lock human beings in cages for “crimes” that don’t have a victim. This proposition repeals one of those laws, and creates 30 more.

      Fuck Gavin Newsome with a rusty chainsaw.

      1. If there’s a state that can fuck this up worse than imaginable, it’s Cali. I bet there’s a clause in there about taking away 2nd amendment rights from everyone who buys legal weed. I also bet that if it passes, that the taxes will be so high that the price will be 3x black market price.

      2. Unless the proposition states “Laws prohibiting marijuana are hereby repealed”, I’m not interested.

        “Legal”ization is actually the opposite of “mind your own fucking business”ization.

        1. If they’re going to tax it, then that’s ok as long as they allow anyone to grow as much as they want on their own land and allow anyone to share or enter a totally free market as a seller.

          1. Six plant personal cultivation limit in the california law, and possession of 2 ounces. But of course six plants yields way more than 2 ounces per season, so there’s going to be a giant grey area where the police will be able to fuck with you if you grow.

            Remember when the government legalized alcohol but kept limits on the amount you could possess? Yeah, me fucking neither.

            1. Remember when government legalized alcohol but let states have insanely restrictive regulations about it? I do.

              1. Remember when government legalized alcohol but let states have insanely restrictive regulations about it? I do.

                “Son, I knew the 21st Amendment. The 21st Amendment was a friend of mine. And you are no 21st Amendment.”

                Or, less witty: as bad as the weasel paragraph of the 21A is, the amendment as a whole was a lot better than most of the “legalization” schemes being proposed. It mandates no particular regime on any state and leaves them free to regulate alcohol or not.

            2. Remember when the government legalized alcohol but kept limits on the amount you could possess?

              100 gallons per single adult household, 200 gallons per multiple adult household.

      3. “Unless the proposition states “Laws prohibiting marijuana are hereby repealed”, I’m not interested.”
        Agreed; ‘legalizing’ it by making almost any sue or distribution ain’t “legalizing” it.
        But I still get to laugh at both sides of the anti-64 group.

    2. I’m going to have to say something that I rarely say, because it’s rarely true. But in this case. it’s the right who are much worse than the left.

      “On the left: cannabis advocates who warn that Prop. 64 will allow corporate interests to crush mom-and-pop players”

      This is a legit concern and something that bothers me also. Of course the leftists are completely unable to differentiate cronyism where the political class and people connected to them collude to corner the market on something before it’s even a thing, and their stupid oh muh gawd corporations! shit.

      “Taking stage right were marijuana foes whose opposition is rooted in calls for morality and public safety”

      That’s one hell of a degree worse. This is exactly why the GOP is team stupid and the exact reason why we no longer have any defense against most of the left’s worst ideas. The GOP cannot even field a candidate and get them elected without them being an idiot SoCon. I mean I really love it when a so called conservative talks about liberty and then goes on about putting them damn pot smokers in jail, while they chug down their bud light.

      1. As far as the “morality and public safety” groups mentioned in the article, what, specifically, makes them SoCons?

        The article mentions a group called Public and Mental Health Advocates Against 64, and a group called Smart Approaches to Marijuana (SAM), headed by one Kevin Sabet, a former Berkeley student senator. The group is against legalizing recreational marijuana *and* against legalizing medical marijuana.

        Here are some more people associated with SAM. Their bigshot “honorary advisors” are Patrick Kennedy, David Frum, and General McCaffrey. The Staff and the Science Advisory Board include a former guy at Bain and Company, a pediatrician at Johns Hopkins, a judge from the National African American Drug Policy Coalition, etc.

        They sound like standard-issue activists and “experts,” I don’t see a lot of stereotypical “SoCons” – where are the fanatical hordes of Christian pastors and church ladies?

        1. And their statement of purpose doesn’t mention the Bible or St. Thomas – it’s a cargo-cultish repetition of “science, science.”

        2. The Fusionist|10.27.16 @ 10:39PM|#
          “As far as the “morality and public safety” groups mentioned in the article, what, specifically, makes them SoCons?”

          Did you hope your strawman would win you points? No one claimed SoCons as far as I can see. Stuff your superstition up your ass.

          1. Can you fucking read?

            “This is exactly why the GOP is team stupid and the exact reason why we no longer have any defense against most of the left’s worst ideas. The GOP cannot even field a candidate and get them elected without them being an idiot SoCon.”

            1. While it doesn’t seem to be a casus belli for socon political organizations, the majority position among self-identified socons is that marijuana should be illegal.

              But that position might be explained more by age than identity. Socially conservative individuals tend to be older.

        3. As far as the “morality and public safety” groups mentioned in the article, what, specifically, makes them SoCons?

          Here in New York, it’s both halves of TEAM BE RULED that are going off on a moralizing binge over opioids.

          *uck Schmuer is running an ad boasting of how he’s going to let chronic pain patients suffer rather than possibly become addicted to opioids. (My sister has MS; thankfully she’s not near that stage yet. And Schumer also has an ad boasting of keeping the Buffalo Bills in New York.)

      2. I’m with you here. I voted against Ohio’s marijuana legalization (as, officially speaking, did the Ohio LP) because they created a market that was not only closed to some people, but closed to everyone except a specific list of named people, which is an order of magnitude worse than making the market open and close based on any sort of personal or legal characteristic of the sellers.

      3. This is a legit concern and something that bothers me also. Of course the leftists are completely unable to differentiate cronyism where the political class and people connected to them collude to corner the market on something before it’s even a thing, and their stupid oh muh gawd corporations! shit.

        Don’t forget the left’s confusion of cronyism, regulatory capture, and other government-corporate collusion and the free market.

    3. Prop. 64 will allow corporate interests to crush mom-and-pop players in the current medical marijuana industry.”

      corporate interests” = anyone other than the people who already inadvertently benefit from the restrictive regulatory framework which bars market entrants.

      Because everyone knows that the immediate next-step after Wavy Gravy’s Neighborhood Free-Range Sustainable Medicinal Weed Clinic and Wheatgrass Bar…. is McWeed

      And even if their worst capitalist-marijuana nightmare came true… wtf is really supposed to be horrible about that? I think drive-thru weed is something to aspire to.

      1. Here in MD, when they passed medical weed, which is not in effect until next year, they fixed the number of growers who could even enter the market to something like 6, all of whom I’m sure are our crony ex governor’s buddies. The free market in the USA is almost gone. They’re fixing the cannabis industry and locking everyone out before it even gets off the ground.

      2. You really want some Starbucks-esque weed shop where the asshole in front of you takes five minutes to decide whether he’ll have the Bubble Gum or Purple Urkel? Christ I’d rather buy from bikers like in high school.

        1. I’d rather just order from Amazon. Come on Bezos, if it’s just gonna be cronyism all day long, might as well have my free 2 hour delivery.

        2. You really want some Starbucks-esque weed shop where the asshole in front of you takes five minutes to decide whether he’ll have the Bubble Gum or Purple Urkel? Christ I’d rather buy from bikers like in high school.

          you’re preaching to the choir. I’ve made the case that the “illegal” market is in many ways ‘more free’ and that decriminalization w/o “legalization” is in many ways preferable

          there are some good arguments that legalization – even in its most crony form – will eventually yield to market forces and it will become more diversified and competitive, but i still just dislike the instant jump from “Govt constantly throwing people in jail for peddling weed” to “Govt peddling weed”

      3. It’s not like that in Seattle or Boulder, dumbass. Why should it be in California?

        1. american socialist|10.27.16 @ 11:31PM|#
          “It’s not like that in Seattle or Boulder, dumbass. Why should it be in California?”

          Did you read what the CA proposition says, asswipe? Didn’t think so and not surprised.

        2. Yeah, California is just like those places.

        3. Communist fails to understand how different laws have different outcomes, news at eleven.

  15. Here’s some grade-A derp from the WaPo comments:

    Jonfromcali
    6:21 PM MDT
    This is asinine. Perhaps the time for “a jury of your peers” is over. Perhaps it’s time for the elites to assert our superior intellect and morality, and stop leaving the functioning of America up to a Tyranny of the Stupid.

      1. I wish I could believe it is. But people over there are frothing at the mouth about the verdict.

      2. There are some incredibly stupid people who post there. If it’s not sarcasm, I’m not surprised.

        1. There are some incredibly stupid people who post there.

          Hyp, I would like you to remain cognizant of the fact that I, and many others (some of whom you’ve replied to) post here.

          Oh – you typed “there” – nevermind.

    1. Amazing that he doesn’t realize that he is ‘the tyranny of the stupid’.

      Someone like Stalin, that’s who we need. He’ll fix them rednecks. /derp

      1. Yeah, we need a good strongman. What could go wrong with that?

        1. Why nothing could go wrong as long as you’re one of the cool kids, right!

    2. Perhaps it’s time for the elites to assert our superior intellect and morality, and stop leaving the functioning of America up to a Tyranny of the Stupid.

      Posting this comment and failing to understand both the details of this case and the law has confirmed your place in the Tyranny of the Stupid. I hereby sentence you to ten years in the iso-cubes, a Judge will be along shortly to assist.

    3. “Perhaps it’s time for the elites to assert our superior intellect and morality, and stop leaving the functioning of America up to a Tyranny of the Stupid.”

      There’s something like a creationist mentality behind that–as if we could simply abolish various rights that we’ve had for 800+ years without any negative consequences. We got juries in the Magna Carta for a reason. Those reasons are the same as they always were.

      Ferguson was a cake walk. I was there for the LA Riots. 11,000 arrests, 3,600 fires set, 1,100 buildings destroyed, many more looted . . . who imagines that situation would have been improved if only the police officers in question had been exonerated by a jury of learned elites?

      What would have happened in LA if O.J. had been convicted by a jury of elitist progressives rather than exonerated by average people?

      Are we talking about drawing a professional jury from the same pool of elitist progressives that currently serve as prosecutors and are reluctant to charge the cops for murder because they depend on the police unions for endorsements?

      Are we talking about a jury of elitist progressives being drawn from the same pool as the city councils in our major cities that make sweetheart deals with the police unions–union contacts that make it so hard to hold the police accountable for brutality and murder cases?

      I don’t see that as a viable solution to any problem.

      1. There’s something like a creationist mentality behind that–as if we could simply abolish various rights that we’ve had for 800+ years without any negative consequences. We got juries in the Magna Carta for a reason. Those reasons are the same as they always were.

        I call such people William Ropers.

    4. Let us be clear, this is the same group of people who “fucking loves science” and thinks it’s okay to lie to advance your cause.

      Neither their intellect nor their morality is superlative, unless the competition is for most lacking.

    1. Wet your pants over someone paying your mortgage, asswipe?

  16. “LaVoy Finicum, a folksy, articulate rancher who had emerged as a spokesman for the movement, was shot to death by law-enforcement officials.”

    Correction: “LaVoy Finicum, a folksy, articulate rancher who had emerged as a spokesman for the movement, was murdered by assassins masquerading law-enforcement officials.”

    Reason is supposed to shoot for truth, guys…

    1. Too convoluted. need to simplify….

      “LaVoy Finicum, a folksy, articulate rancher who had emerged as a spokesman for the movement, was assassinated by government officials”

  17. Ken Shultz|10.27.16 @ 11:42PM|#
    “Perhaps it’s time for the elites to assert our superior intellect and morality, and stop leaving the functioning of America up to a Tyranny of the Stupid.”

    I agree. Those of us who are not ignoramuses can limit harm done by those who are. We might avoid mob rule by limiting it by something we call the Constitution, so that mob rule is constrained.

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  19. Eat another ginormous bag of dicks, Dave Weigel and all the rest of you JournoList scum-sucking gutter vermin!

  20. Seems like this is a case of jury nullification. I hope more citizens start to realize the government is not there to protect them. Most government officials think it’s their job to oppress the people. I’m glad these Patriots took their case to trial instead of rolling over and taking a plea like some others did.

  21. “It’s worth remembering the behavior of the agents who shot and killed occupier LaVoy Finicum, who shot at him just as he exited his vehicle and before the notorious “reaching for a gun” motion that many in the public insisted justified the kill.”

    Black people can’t even touch their waist without it being considered justification for killing them, but a crazed white man can jump out of his vehicle after a police chase with a gun strapped to his hip and think cop’s should wait until he’s looking down his sight at them? Utterly insane.

    1. “Black people can’t even touch their waist without it being considered justification for killing them, but a crazed white man can jump out of his vehicle after a police chase with a gun strapped to his hip and think cop’s should wait until he’s looking down his sight at them? Utterly insane.”

      As Finicum was on his way to law enforcement to discuss matters, the initial blockade created by the Feds was a bad idea that led to a terrible outcome.

      I would suggest also watching the video shot by a female in the car with Finicum before passing ultimate judgment.

      1. the initial blockade created by the Feds was a bad idea that led to a terrible outcome

        A feature, not a bug.

  22. White Juries acquit white people! Grrr!

    http://www.latimes.com/opinion…..story.html

  23. Hooray! Superman fist to the cornhole of government!

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