New Poll of 15 Swing States Shows Gary Johnson Beating the Spread in 13; Double Digits in 7
Even if inflated a tad, new numbers underscore that the candidate will go forth where no Libertarian has tread.


If your Twitter feed is like mine, you have seen some version of the handy graphic to the right, showing the two-party results of a Washington Post/SurveyMonkey poll conducted Oct. 8-16 across 15 battleground states. It's a striking and somewhat shocking visual, showing reliably Republican states such as Texas and Arizona in the "Toss-ups" category, Obama-voting two-timers Nevada and Iowa in the red, and GOP-loving Georgia on Team Blue.
Not pictured is Libertarian Party nominee Gary Johnson, which is a shame because his support exceeds the spread between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump in 13 of the 15 states, and his totals reach double-digits in seven. Here's a list of those states ranked highest to lowest, with the competition (including the Green Party's Jill Stein) in parentheses:
NM: 18 (HC 41 DT 33 JS 5)
WI: 12 (HC 43 DT 38 JS 4)
CO: 12 (HC 44 DT 37 JS 4)*
MI: 11 (HC 45 DT 37 JS 5)
AZ: 10 (DT 44 HC 41 JS 3)
IA: 10 (DT 45 HC 40 JS 2)*
NH: 10 (HC 47 DT 36 JS 4)
OH: 9 (DT 44 HC 41 JS 4)
GA: 9 (HC 45 DT 41 JS 2)
NV: 9 (DT 44 HC 40 JS 5)
NC: 9 (HC 46 DT 40 JS 3)
TX: 8 (DT 44 HC 42 JS 2)
PA: 8 (HC 46 DT 40 JS 3)
VA: 8 (HC 49 DT 38 JS 3)*
FL: 7 (DT 45 HC 43 JS 3)
Before you get too happy or sad, here's a bucketful of caveats: 1) See all those crooked Jill Stein numbers? They are almost surely inflated, calling into question the accuracy of the third-party haul here. On a national level, Stein hasn't polled north of 3 percent all month, with one exception: An Oct. 10-16 showing of 4 percent from the same outfit that did this, SurveyMonkey. In fact, of all the national polling outfits, SM has produced the second-most robust numbers for Gary Johnson, averaging 9.8 percent across 20 polls (only IBD, at 11.0 percent in just four surveys, is higher). 2) Johnson's poll numbers have been degrading steadily both nationally and locally, to the point where FiveThirtyEight currently predicts him getting just 5.9 percent of the vote, down from 6.5 percent just two weeks ago. ("Really wondering whether Johnson will actually hit 5% nationally," FiveThirtyEight number-cruncher Harry Enten tweeted yesterday. "I think he still will, but could be close…") 3) Many of the individual states' results are out of whack with polling averages; see Arizona for example. And 4) Independent conservative Evan McMullin, currently making waves in Utah, wasn't included in this poll in the three asterisked states above, consistent with his record of going poll-less in 9 of the 11 states in which he's on the ballot.
But even if you knock down Johnson's numbers above by three percentage points per (which roughly corresponds to the consensus for his state-by-state performance), it still underscores that the Libertarian nominee is beating the spread in one-third of the country, on the way to by far the party's best finish ever. It says something about the weirdness of this political year (and just maybe of this political tribe) that many libertarians see this result as a historic faceplant, but there you go.
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Let's hope that Johnson has a happy ending.
I'll be pulling for Johnson
How many Johnsons can be stuffed into a single ballot box?
/Sex joke about beating the spread that I couldn't quite come up with.
Beating a third party's Johnson? Kinky.
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"Johnson should cover the spread."
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My hope is that we're not embellishing Johnson's size here. It'd be a shame if his poll was smaller than we're being led to believe.
He says he's pulling 6 percent, but it's really around 4 and a half.
My favorite.
Bookies at Paddpower seem to be reassessing what kind of odds to offer on this candidate. They are clear on The Antichoice Party at 6 to 1 to lose.
Will Reason be covering the recent revelations about the Hillary Clinton campaign using brownshirt tactics to disrupt Trump rallies?
"Scott Foval, National Field Director for a non-profit organization named Americans United for Change, told an undercover reporter, "The [Clinton] campaign pays DNC, DNC pays Democracy Partners, Democracy Partners pays the Foval Group, The Foval Group goes and executes the shit."
What is this "shit" the Foval Group executes? Foval points to Shirley Teeter, a 69-year-old woman who dominated the airwaves after she said she was assaulted at a North Carolina Trump rally.
"She was one of our activists," Foval said to the undercover reporter.
. . .
Two of Creamer's underlings in the video, Zulema Rodriguez and Aaron Black take credit for organizing the March Chicago protest which made Trump cancel his rally and left police officers injured.
http://dailycaller.com/2016/10.....p-rallies/
They so far have not, but I, for one, appreciate everyone's efforts to make sure this gets dropped in every comments thread today.
No, Reason is too busy explaining why the total cooperation and coordination between the Clinton campaign and the media doesn't mean -- at all -- that the election is rigged. And that Trump is a dangerous conservationist demagogue for bringing it up.
*conspirationist*
Well, the election itself is not rigged.
The media of course doesn't like Trump. They have to listen to him speak sometimes.
The election is as rigged as the elections in Putin's Russia.
Whoa.
Whoa.
Whoa.
Ok.
Outside of North Caucasus, the outright stuffing of ballot boxes is not that common. Russians vote for Putin because the Russian media was thoroughly purged since Putin came to power. When all (or almost) TV channels tell folks that there's no alternative to Putin, that he's the only who can provide guarantee of political and economic stability, Russian citizens tend to vote accordingly. Also, many opposition politicians were caught on tape engaging in extramarital sex. Those tapes were shown on national TV.
It's actually tragic that we can even compare the media situation in the US and Russia.
That's a fair argument.
He sounds exactly like every other Republican. Everything he offers is recited verbatim from a platform more than 10 times longer than the LP platform--except for the talk of abolishing the IRS or income tax. GO-Pissers include that, possibly to entice libertarian voters into jumping the fence, but never mention it in public.
It'll get a passing reference/half-hearted post sometime after the election.
Has anyone tried actually contacting reason directly, or is everyone just on board with bitching and moaning in the comment threads?
is everyone just on board with bitching and moaning in the comment threads?
Well, that's what we always do.
Reason staff check the comment section more than they do whatever generic email accounts they have for user feedback, I'd wager.
Doubtful.. Outside of Welch, ENB, Fruit Sushi, Walker, and Bailey I don't see too many other staffers interacting with the wretched hive of scum and villainy of the comments sections.
This is a Welch thread.
Who else is there? You think Dahlmia is going to cover it?
Shackford does, too.
or is everyone just on board with bitching and moaning in the comment threads?
It's like it's your first day here or something.
It's a hillary news blackout until after the election. Then we'll here about how awful she is everyday. And then the subpoenas and executive orders will follow, to the shock of no one, except for Reason.
The head of the FBI was afraid of her. No one in their right mind will dare to do anything to Clinton. She doesn't need to put horse's heads in their beds, the media can do much worse to anyone who opposes here. No subpoenas will be issued. No charges will be made. The media will attack Trump, laugh at Johnson and Stein and continue to propagandize for progressives. Trump will leave the country to avoid prosecution, Johnson will go to jail for selling marijuana and Jill Stein will merrily dance off to senile anonymity.
The presidential election is over. All that remains to be decided is who will control the Senate (actually, which party will submit to the rule of Empress Hillary the First) and some local elections.
We will now have a vindictive incompetent in the White House. She's not the first but she is the first with unlimited media support.
Looks like you have plenty of sources to feed your confirmation-based addled mind.
"When Foval spoke about the events he organizes he said, "There's a script of engagement. Sometimes the crazies bite and sometimes the crazies don't bite."
"When they're outside the rally, the media will cover it no matter where it happens. The key is initiating the conflict by having leading conversations with people who are naturally psychotic," Foval continued. "I mean honestly, it is not hard to get some of these assholes to pop off. It's a matter of showing up, to want to get into the rally, in a Planned Parenthood t-shirt. Or, Trump is a Nazi, you know. You can message to draw them out, and draw them to punch you."
. . .
Foval in the video said, "We have to be really careful because, because what we don't need is for it to show up on CNN that the DNC paid for X people to . . .
http://dailycaller.com/2016/10.....p-rallies/
"When Foval spoke about the events he organizes he said, "There's a script of engagement. Sometimes the crazies bite and sometimes the crazies don't bite."
"When they're outside the rally, the media will cover it no matter where it happens. The key is initiating the conflict by having leading conversations with people who are naturally psychotic," Foval continued. "I mean honestly, it is not hard to get some of these assholes to pop off. It's a matter of showing up, to want to get into the rally, in a Planned Parenthood t-shirt. Or, Trump is a Nazi, you know. You can message to draw them out, and draw them to punch you."
. . .
Foval in the video said, "We have to be really careful because, because what we don't need is for it to show up on CNN that the DNC paid for X people to . . .
http://dailycaller.com/2016/10.....p-rallies/
You know, basic decency and ethics would suggest to me that any media that condemned Trump for the violence around his campaign should be covering that story. Funny how that works, though.
basic decency and ethics
Well, there's your problem...
There's nothing to cover. They already knew about it.
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Same link I provided this morning of Hillary in email stating she wants Republicans to start the unraveling of Obamacare.
Otherwise, it sounds like any Reason staff who posted about the Trump campaign's brownshirt tactics should be writing retractions.
There's no shame in being fooled by someone's lies.
The shame comes from refusing to face the truth once the lies become clear.
Oh, and just to be balanced, part of those retractions might acknowledge the Hillary campaign's Nazi tactics.
P.S. Has Michelle Fields ever gone on the record as saying she is definitely NOT working for the Hillary Clinton campaign?
I despise Trump.
Every day in every way, I want to vote for him more and more . . . even though I despise him.
Trump is a pompous thin-skinned moron with authoritarian leanings and I will never vote for him, but Hillary, the DNC, and the mainstream media (but I repeat myself) are doing their best to convince me otherwise.
Yep. The only thing that makes it tempting is the thought of the media defending everything the Clinton Administration does for the next four years. I'd rather hear them trash talk Trump during that time.
They're right in so far as Johnson has, unfortunately, given the media enough ammunition to assure the bobble-heads that he's "too goofy/ unserious/ uninformed/ whatever" to vote for. But wrong in that, what the fuck did they expect? They had to know the 2-party duopoly and their media enablers would fight tooth and nail to keep any 3rd party from even coming close to threatening the status quo.
And does anyone really think Petersen or McAfee would have been any better? Petersen would have been "too young/ inexperienced" to be taken seriously. Plus, he's an "icky pro-lifer who hates gays" because he won't use the force of government to make people bake them cakes and shit. And of course McAfee is also "inexperienced" not to mention being a "wanted murderer."
Agreed. I wouldn't personally have voted for either Johnson or Weld were I a delegate, but the idea that any other candidate would be doing better is a total fantasy scenario; I don't think Petersen or McAfee had any particular qualities that would have led to them getting better press coverage.
I don't think Petersen or McAfee had any particular qualities that would have led to them getting better press coverage.
McAfee might have gotten some press coverage because he is considered to be somewhat eccentric and could probably give the Dos Equis guy a run for his money in terms of being "the most interesting man in the world." But they also would have jumped on the whole "suspected of murdering his neighbor in Belize" thing, and I'm pretty sure he would have blown up at an interviewer over it - he doesn't strike me as having much patience for fools - which would also be played as him being "too volatile/ not having the right temperament to be president"
Petersen, outside of running "libertarian buzzfeed" and being rumored to be an internet troll - he supposedly creates multiple sock puppets (wholly shit, maybe Petersen is Tulpa) - isn't all that interesting beyond being a Seth McFarlane lookalike.
I refuse to search for it, but a while back someone posted a link to Petersen's "Top [however many] Cutest Libertarian Women," which seemed like basically the most humiliating method he could possibly have come up with to publically announce that he is still a virgin.
Not to mention that if he had been the LP nominee the media would have been all over that as "proof" of what a misogynistic asshole he is too.
Well, you must never lose sight of the fact that Johnson is a professional politician, and one who failed miserably at the job as a Republican. Which means he basically is even less accomplished than the mental midgets who populate the party itself.
The fact that he can tie his own shoes without soiling himself is pretty impressive in light of his being on the low side of the bell curve of politicians.
Lifetime = 8 years as governor and a few years as a presidential candidate? Your real good with math
Failed miserably= being elected and reelected as governor. Your real good with facts.
Yes but he's OUR miserable failure! He'll do nicely after increasing our share of the vote count twice in a row... There's nothing quite like a rising first derivative...
Exactly. The little airtime GayJay receives is invariably used to either ridicule dumb shit he has said (sometimes taken out of context, sometimes well-deserved) or to give a level of analysis to his policies that Hillary or Trump would never receive.
The media, as has been often observed here, is pretty much 100% anti-Trump with a vehemence that has not existed in presidential politics in my lifetime, yet he is nonetheless universally considered the second-most qualified and only other "serious" candidate.
Preserving the duopoly is critical here. It would be a huge pain if those Libertarians were able to qualify for automatic ballot access in future elections just because of one measly slip-up by the establishment.
It would be a huge pain if those Libertarians were able to qualify for automatic ballot access in future elections
I'm pretty sure if they did, most states would just retroactively change their ballot access laws. Because FYTW.
It's not quite that bad. The LP automatically qualifies on plenty of statewide ballots after each election without too much gaming of the rules afterward. This year they'll just automatically qualify it a couple dozen more states than usual.
I don't think it's about ballot access. It's probably about public matching funds. Don't you have to get 5% to get public money? I know the uniparty types reject the spending limits now, but it would be a huge deal for the 2020 Libertarian nominee to get millions of dollars to spend.
I don't know. Do you really think Johnson's gaffes were all that bad? I mean truthfully. Trump earlier didn't know what Brexit was or how the Supreme Court worked.
Or how many Articles are in the Constitution. I think he said something about the 10th Article or such, when there are only 7 articles.
Do you really think Johnson's gaffes were all that bad?
Not really, but don't forget about the "weird man's burden." As a non-duopoly candidate, he's not going to get any of the benefit of the doubt that "serious" candidates get.
Count me among the people who don't think they would do any better. I think they would poll lower than Johnson. The only reason why Johnson gets any press is because he is a former governor.
Had Johnson not been a total brain-burn, as a former governor, he might have had a chance. But, if he hadn't been a total brain-burn that chance would have come within the Republican primary system.
His jumping into the tiny puddle that is the LP was a desperate attempt to find an ecosystem where he wouldn't be eaten.
if he hadn't been a total brain-burn that chance would have come within the Republican primary system.
Doubtful. In 2012 I remember a couple of the early debates (when there were a dozen or more candidates) where he wasn't asked any questions directly and wasn't hardly allowed to even speak. Hard to make much of an impression, and hard to get primary voter's attention. Plus his views on abortion, "teh gayz," and MJ legalization were huge liabilities in the GOP.
"The only reason why Johnson gets any press is because he is a former governor."
And I believe replacing Jim Gray with William Weld. No offense to the judge, but adding a second former governor to the ticket gives it more authenticity.
No.
SurveyMonkey is how my employer asks us what we want for lunch at big meetings. Hard to take seriously.
SurveyMonkey
Racist
Dicks out for SurveyHarambe.
Survey Harambe perhaps?
The poll is presumably just sponsored by survey monkey.
It's like the Wall Street Journal/NBC poll.
That's who pays for the polling. They aren't just putting a poll on their sites.
Poll... Johnson... beating... spread... digits.
And for OMWC: 7
Is that math correct?
I'd be interested to read Anthony Fisher's rewrite of this post:
"The last contender given an opportunity to call out Trump's rhetoric as an inciting factor in the recent violence . . .
When Tapper failed to follow-up on his initial question about violence at Trump rallies with a query about the Lewandowski/Fields incident, he let Trump tap-dance his way out of any responsibility for inciting violence and for creating a campaign culture where his most senior staffer would find it appropriate to trigger a physical altercation with a female reporter
Trump's opponents, who have railed against his "incivility" and "bullying" for months, completely let him off the hook at last night's debate when presented with the opportunity to explain how the Trump movement goes far beyond just nasty rhetoric, but is instead now manifesting itself violently,
If last night is any indication of how Trump's rivals and the media plan on holding Trump accountable for how his words influence the actions of his supporters, it's a fair bet to say that "a little bit more" violence is what we'll see."
"Donald Trump's Rivals Completely Let Him Off the Hook on Violence Surrounding His Campaign"
http://reason.com/blog/2016/03.....e-campaign
I will probably have one of my kids in the voting booth with me. Otherwise, I'd be very tempted to vote Trump instead of Johnson.
That's how pissed I am.
*sigh*
I'm surprised Trump is still ahead in both Ohio and Florida.
As a resident, I'm shocked he is losing Clinton here in Georgia. My county (the biggest and most populous) is so Republican, there are 3 Democrats and 2 Libertarians on my entire ballot. 75% of positions are uncontested.
Yeah, Georgia alone calls the whole poll into question for me.
Personally, I'm done with this election, anyways. Now I'm looking forward to 2018. I saw this morning that Curt Schilling is going to run (pending wife's approval) against Lizzie "Don't call me Pocahontas" Warren. Oh my god, that's gonna be fun to watch.
South Park Cows beat the spread!! (first season highlight)
+1 Big Gay Boat Ride
"See all those crooked Jill Stein numbers? They are almost surely inflated, calling into question the accuracy of the third-party haul here."
Yes, especially given that Stein is not on the ballot at all even as a write-in in Nevada and only as a write-in in Georgia and North Carolina. So where is the 5% for Stein in Nevada going to go?
RE: New Poll of 15 Swing States Shows Gary Johnson Beating the Spread in 13; Double Digits in 7
Even if inflated a tad, new numbers underscore that the candidate will go forth where no Libertarian has tread
Not to worry here.
Once elected, Trump the Grump or Heil Hitlary will find out who these miscreants are and place them in the appropriate gulag for their re-education.
If Johnson gets 5% it would be an insanely successful pull, far better than an L candidate has ever done. I don't see how people are saying he's face-planted.
B-b-b-because he could have done so much better!
Some people just like to bitch. Personally, I'm thrilled.
I think that considering this election cycle, he is leaving money on the table. He may be doing better historically than Libertarian candidates have ever done, but the gap between what he is getting and what was available to get this go-around leaves people facepalming.
Conjecture, of course.
Maybe but I really think people were delusional if they thought he was going to do much better and delusional if they didn't think his polling at around 10% would shrink as the election got closer. It happens every time, its just that he started out high enough that even with people shifting to the duopoly on election day will still leave him with a historic amount of votes.
I also think that if Johnson, Stein and McMullin combine to drag the winner below 50% in the popular vote it will be a big optical win.
With all these revelations about the Clinton campaign inciting violence at Trump rallies, making false accusations, "bird-dogging", etc., it makes you wonder . . .
All the thing the guy in that video are saying they do for the Hillary campaign are a lot like what Michelle Fields did to the Trump campaign at one of their rallies.
I don't know of any evidence that she was coordinating with the Hillary campaign, but now she's working for The Huffington Post and giving Hillary public advice on how to beat Trump.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlxbAV_kL2o
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Third partiers usually fail to meet their poll numbers on election day. Johnson is probably winning 3% of the vote. I thought he could win 5 million votes, but that seems unlikely now.
Johnson's latest "gaffe" is his criticism of Trump's treatment of "mowmen", which is drawing a chuckle from the left and the MSM and adding to the perception that GJ is an a buffoonish pothead. It took a headline grabbing sex audio tape to take down Trump. It only took cheap pot shots (literally, pot) and libertarian stereotype to effectively undo Johnson's early momentum.
He could have done better. Way better. He ran as an anti-Trump moderate democrat and was backstabbed by the hard left he courted. By the time he caught on, it was already over. Independents are shifting to Clinton and some NeverTrump are going to Mcmullin. It seems like all the LP candidates who ran against him just aren't feeling GJ - Mcafee, Petersen, Darryl Perry says they won't vote for the guy.
Google Gary Johnson, and you can see for yourself the left's orchestrated attacks on Johnson. And no one is there to defend him or stand up for him, other than some anti Trump writers from NRO or something. He's a man on an island.
Just to clarify, Austin Petersen is actually gonna vote for Gary Johnson.
Hell, there is hope Austin might become a convert to libertarianism after all. All he has to do is lay off of bullying women into squeezing out pups against their will. Perhaps a resolution abolishing all federal interference with the medical profession, especially licenses to practice medicine or to produce and sell truthfully-labeled drugs, would be a good lead in--if successful--to "conscientious" cutting off of all federal funds for vaccinations, epidemic control and planned parenthood. Then again, there will soon be plenty of room for additional fake libertarians like Ron and Randall Paul in the Go-Pee urinalysis and wand-probing party.
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Johnson could be the shoo-in for Hillary that Perot was for Bill.
Worse things could happen... such as yet another George Waffen Bush-Herbert Hoover prohibitionist asset-forfeiture Crash and Great Depression. Both the FDR and Obama administrations took office during the total collapse of the US economy and banking system brought on by prohibitionist asset forfeiture looting. The Chicago Tribune from the 1930s is online today with almost the full story.
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I ran the numbers off Politico and in the Texas senate race 2 years back the LP got 2.8% of the vote. However, Green econazis got 40% as many votes total as the LP, so the Democratic party's greenward capitulation was evidently insufficient to completely wipe out the Greens the way they wiped out the Liberal Party by adopting Prohibition repeal in the campaign of 1932.
Useful as it would be as a metric for testing the strength of the Heil Erde! movement in Texas, I doubt the Texas LP could be persuaded to add a plank calling for ecological "reconcentrados" camps for climate Cassandra "deniers." Their platform is already long enough as it is.
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