Rudy Giuliani Says "Anything is Legal" in War, Including Taking Iraq's Oil

On 9/11 anniversary, "America's Mayor" defends Donald Trump's "take the oil" refrain.

ABC/The Week

Former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, appearing on ABC's The Week this morning, told host George Stephanopoulos that Donald Trump's repeated assertion that the U.S. should have taken Iraq's oil following the 2003 invasion would have been legal, because "It's war…until the war is over, anything is legal."

Giuliani insisted the Republican presidential nominee was not talking about stealing Iraq's natural resources to benefit U.S. financial interests, but to keep the oil out of the hands of groups like ISIS "and distribute it in a proper way."

The former mayor, who for a while was dubbed "America's Mayor" for his handling of media relations during the chaotic days after 9/11 and was an early front-runner for the 2008 GOP nomination, appears to be oblivious of the many international treaties, conventions, and laws that prohibit the pillaging of private property in occupied countries.

Much like Donald Trump's insistence that the military would not refuse his orders to torture captives or bomb the families of suspected terrorists, Giuliani's ignorance of the concept of war crimes should be the kind of statement that "disqualifies" someone to be president, but this is 2016, where not immediately recognizing the name of a city in Syria gets you awarded the "Worst Week in Washington" by Beltway pundits.

Watch Giuliani's exchange on The Week below:

Giuliani: "Of course" taking Iraq's oil would have been legal: "Until the war is over, anything is legal." #ThisWeek https://t.co/VR7lvCJAws

— This Week (@ThisWeekABC) September 11, 2016

Comments

[CZmacure]

Fascists gonna fascist.

[Fist of Etiquette]

We've entered the phase of the election season where the candidate's supporters must rationalize the random declarations of their buffoon. The GOP surrogates really have their work cut out for them this time around.

[Nativist, Racist & Xenophobe]

How's this?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Photoshopped. She'd never be caught dead without a pantsuit.

[Nativist, Racist & Xenophobe]

Good catch!

[Trigger Warning]

While the Queen's Royal Guard just needs to make sure she doesn't talk to the press or hoi polloi. Or let anybody get close enough to her to realize how far gone her mind actually is.

[Fist of Etiquette]

And she's happy not to. This season we have two candidates whose wranglers don't want them speaking too much, but only one group of handlers is being effective at that task.

[Steve G]

Wow, such insight into the Law of Armed Conflict...

[SusanM]

More Cosmo-cheerleading, eh? You're going along with the rest of the media by covering up the story of Hillary fainting, convulsing and revealing her lizard form in front of a dozen eyewitnesses before being whisked off to a secret Illuminati bunker, aren't you?

[GILMORE?]

Don't forget the sexism

[SusanM]

Dammit! I always forget the sexism! Next time I'll remember.

[Col. Chestbridge]

Today is not a day for forgetting things!

[pan fried wylie]

Some of those eyewitnesses were men, therefore Male Gaze, sexism accomplished. *dusts off hands*

[Trshmnstr smells of Lo Mein]

A little something-something for Mr. Lizard

[Mr Lizard]

I have told you stoooooooopid mammals time and again. We have one reptile in an active political position. Governor Rick Scott, and I should be fucking obvious.

However I can understand how you are taken in by that photo

[OneOut]

OT

This should be it for Hillary unless the fix is definitely in.

She didn't stumble stepping off the curb.

She was standing by the curb with a woman who's arm was underneath Hillary"s as if supporting her. She almost went down twice, and would have if not being help up by that woman, Then she and the woman stepped off the curb when she lost her shoe.

This issue is no longer a tinfoil hat issue. She is very ill and is incapable of holding down the job of President whether you like her politics or not.

Will the media be successful in covering this up ?

Will the Trump campaign be successful in getting this message to the public in spite of the media ?

Will Hillary's supporters vote for her knowing she is physically incapable of doing the job, or any job for that matter ? Would you hire her to sack groceries at this point ?

Tune in next week folks.

Same Bat time. Same Bat Channel.

What has this country become ?

[SusanM]

Meh. She'll be a lot easier to deal with if she spends the next four years stuck in a wheelchair drooling into a pan.

[GILMORE?]

I for one welcome our new vegetable overlords

[Mr Lizard]

You would be one to wish rule by a turnip

[GILMORE?]

I would prefer Brussels sprouts but I doubt the EU will accept us as a member

[Set Us Up The Chipper]

Nice

[pan fried wylie]

Donald Turnip 2016!

[Trigger Warning]

Nice.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

Yeah, it may be about time we focus more on Kaine and what he would be like as president.

It would be funny if Hillary is half-incapacitated, just enough to maintain the title of president, while Bill runs the day-to-day as he descends (further?) into dementia. Oh, the stories that would come out of that White House.

[Nativist, Racist & Xenophobe]

Meh. She'll be a lot easier to deal with if she spends the next four years stuck in a wheelchair drooling into a pan.

Aw, yeah, man!

[dan'o en barrel]

Here's the best angle I've seen. Confirms that she didn't stumble while walking, her knees buckled while standing. The human shield quickly formed around her to block the view, but it was too little too late.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11-EAzsGxgQ

[Red Rocks Okey-Dokein]

Thank goodness someone was aware enough to get that shit on video. We all know damn well her campaign would be lying their asses off that anything happened at all if someone hadn't captured it.

They're trying to spin it as "heat exhaustion," but it was in the upper 70s with about 40% humidity around that time. That's a typical spring/fall day in DC, let along NYC. If she can't handle that, Trump should insist that the next debate take place outside in Tampa during mid-day.

[PapayaSF]

I've read that her people are arguing that the debates should be done sitting.

[Toast88]

The lefties are out in full-force with the excuse of, "I'm 35 and faint all the time in 79 degree weather---no biggie."

If true, that explains a lot about the left.

[pan fried wylie]

79 CELSIUS. Real smart now, huh Smarty McSmartenson? #FeelTheBurn

[Ted S.]

For what it's worth, the story has appeared in the foreign media

[The Real Jose]

I fully expect the NYT will now call for her to step down as the nominee:

http://www.nytimes.com/1997/01.....dates.html

[Mr Lizard]

*glares intensley*

[Libertarian]

Trump is a buffoon. Giuliani is the fascist that the Lefties claim Trump is.

Thank god Giuliani is a good a campaigner as he is a statesman, or we'd now be wrapping up an 8-year term of President Giuliani.

[Playa Manhattan.]

He's also a dick. Fucking worthless as a consultant, which he tried to do after being mayor.

[Robert]

He was a figurehead, trophy "consultant". Someone whose services could be advertised to impress customers. But that's all he ever was: a p.r. generator, usually for himself. He appealed to people who think a parade of people in handcuffs is a sign of accomplishment.

[Robert]

Only positive thing he ever accomplished was to serve as inspiration or motivator for patients with prostate CA.

[Playa Manhattan.]

Yep. Ernst & Young hired him. He demanded a corner office on Times Square. Ernst & Young fired him.

[Gray Ghost]

At least they didn't change their firm's entire name to try and hire him.

He was the right guy at the right time for NYC, and he would've been an absolutely awful tyrant as POTUS. I thought he had a decent shot at getting the nom, had prostate cancer not come up.

[Gray Ghost]

Oh, and by right guy at right time, I mean 9/11, not stop/frisk and the rest of the broken windows symphony.

[Mickey Rat]

He is a successful Blue State Republican. So, yes.

[Robert]

"Trump is a buffoon. Giuliani is the fascist that the Lefties claim Trump is."

Amazing how they get that mixed up, isn't it? Giuliani benefits by having Trump around to draw that description away.

[taluwa]

my buddy's mother makes $66 an hour on the laptop . She has been unemployed for ten months but last month her check was $18065 just working on the laptop for a few hours. blog here..
?????->> http://www.earnmax6.com/

[Dan S.]

It's probably true that ISIS wouldn't exist in the form it does today without oil to sell. But it's more Syrian oil than Iraqi, isn't it? And the biggest customer seems to be Turkey, no matter how much they deny it. A seemingly endless supply of new Toyota trucks also props them up - where do they come from? ISIS didn't exist during the U.S. invasion of Iraq, so it would have been hard to justify taking Iraqi oil to keep it out of the hands of a group not yet formed. On the other hand, U.S. policies in Iraq, especially the disbanding of the Iraqi army, did lead directly to the formation of ISIS. But if that result was foreseen, the proper response would have been to refrain from the action that gave rise to ISIS in the first place.

[OneOut]

French oil companies "stole" most of the Iraqi oil.

[dan'o en barrel]

If I remember correctly, France had placed a few billion in the Iraqi treasury payable in rate-locked oil-- but I'm sure they were against the war for moral reasons as they insisted...

[SoCal Deathmarch]

"Until the war is over, anything is legal"

I knew those Concentration Camps were legit!

Is this motherfucker serious?

[Libertarian]

Of course, the sweet advantage to the "war on terror" is that it's never over. I mean, that's why we invaded Iraq, right? Because they blew up the twin towers?

[Hugh Akston]

Of course he's serious. You can tell because he speaks about war in practical terms like troop deployments, critical targets, and supply logistics. The unserious people are the ones who ask whether these wars are causing America to compromise the very values it claims to be defending.

[Azathoth!!]

Had Hitler won, those concentration camps would have been perfectly legal.

What your enemies do, those are war crimes. What you do.........is survival.

[John C. Randolph]

Hey Rudy: Ever heard of a town in Germany call "Nuremburg", you pig-ignorant motherfucker?

-jcr

[SusanM]

RJ: "Nuremburg? Best ballet guy ever!"

[Robert]

But that's only when the war is over, & only if you lose.

[Rhywun]

Don't mention the war!

[Robert]

Why, has Lucy not been released yet?

[That's A Bingo!]

Is that where there's that giant racetrack?

[Robert]

Serious Q: How much of the aforementioned oil is in fact private property?

[GILMORE?]

None?

Afaik, the iraqi state licences operators to extract / dist / transport / sell oil, and pay the state it's share of after-cost profits.

They had a half dozen agreements with (if I recall, mostly european) oil concerns, which, after the war, were largely honored/renewed. The us didn't inject itself beyond providing Halliburton / kbr etc as default contractors to do repairs / maintenance of iraqi oil infrastructure

How, the oil itself, regardless of who pumped it or shipped it, was and is the iraqi state's.

This talk about "taking it" is nonsense. It's pretending hyper-liberal fears were true, and that we "should" have enacted their most absurd scenarios

[Glide]

That's the funniest thing about it. Liberals spent the last ten years shrieking about how we went to war for oil even though we got no oil out of the deal, and just when we have laid that left-idiocy to bed the right-idiots like Trump and Giuliani come out with blazing machine guns pointed at their own nuts saying "that crony capitalist nightmare the left totally made up? We should have done it."

[Libertarian]

Related: here's wikipedia on its entry for 9/11 NYC radio systems. Giuliani: A Great Administrator.

"The federal 9/11 Commission Report included recommendations on communications systems used by police, fire, and emergency medical services (EMS) at the WTC incident. In the report and in appearances on television news programs, commissioners said the capabilities of communications systems lacked the ability to communicate across department lines. That is to say, police units could not communicate with fire units directly by radio. Ambulances could not talk with police units directly by radio."

[GILMORE?]

Im not sure that was G's personal shortcoming so much as a consequence of the fact that emergency response comm routing normally relied on a hub which was based in.... the world trade center

Something like that. If I recall, they actually did quite well despite what was almost a complete collapse in emergency comms infrastructure.

Theres lots of valid criticisms of Rudy. I think it's stupid to try and manufacture them out of the 9/11 shitshow.

[S1]

Why did Rudy put the hub in a known target of terrorist attacks?

[Playa Manhattan.]

He didn't put it anywhere.

[Playa Manhattan.]

Their biggest concern was probably redundancy in case of comm failures.

WTC had one of the largest Verizon switches in the country in the basement, and one of the most powerful FM transmitters in the city on the roof. Good spot for a communications center. Other than what you just mentioned.

[S1]

You sure about that?

Giuliani created the City's Emergency Operations Center. The location he chose for this high-tech communications hub, the 23rd floor of 7 World Trade Center, had several major problems:

The World Trade Center was a significant terrorist target. It was bombed in 1993 and various threats against it continued to be made.
While the building having backup generators was a plus, it required large quantities of diesel fuel to be at the bottom of the building.
The City spent $13 million on the project despite not owning the space.

So when the terrorist attacks happened on 9/11/2001, exactly the type of situation the Emergency Operations Center was built for, it could not be used safely because it was right across the street from the WTC's north tower. In fact, 7 WTC eventually collapsed due to damage and a fire caused when the north tower fell.

[GILMORE?]

"it could not be used safely"

But they did, up until they had to flee the building

In hindsight it seems a bad choice. In hindsight, maybe airplanes should have had licks on cockpit doors. It's not one guys fault.

[GILMORE?]

"locks"

Phone + beer while doing laundry.

[S1]

Locks on cockpit doors -- what could go wrong?

[GILMORE?]

I'm not sure how / why you think that has anything to do with your claims that Giuliani was somehow especially culpable for communication failures on 9/11

my point was that many things seemed "obvious".... after the fact. its irrational to apply that perspective to the pre-9/11 environment, and then claim they reflected the shortcomings of a single person.

[S1]

It's not hindsight. WTC was known to be the #1 terrorism target in NYC and had already been bombed 8 years previous.

No doubt there were other people involved in the decision, but Rudy was the head honcho. He's responsible for what his administration does.

[Playa Manhattan.]

Hey, Tulpa's right!

[GILMORE?]

WTC was known to be the #1 terrorism target in NYC and had already been bombed 8 years previous.

Yeah, i know. I've lived in NYC my whole life.

The 'command hub' in question was across the street in WTC7

Short of "The buildings falling down" on their own, there was little to suggest that there'd ever be an event - including a mere 'bombing' - which would take out the entire fucking 4x4-block area.

if you think that risk factors associated w/ the Towers was supposed to preclude anyone ever using the entire surrounding area for 'security-related purposes'.... well, i'd retort that you're completely fucking retarded.

This is all besides the point, since the inability of NYPD and FDNY to communicate had little to do with that center in the first place. It had more to do with the fact that FD had older generation radios which required a 'repeater' device on the site.... and why am i even explaining this to you? Because you're too fucking lazy to check.

the simple point made over and over is that you've never mentioned a single thing which RG was specifically "at fault" for which he could have somehow foreseen and done fuckall about.

and you're persisting because you want to persist, which suggests you're this Sundays' tulpa incarnation.

[Agent Cooper]

Protocol for U.S. airlines is to have 2 people in the cockpit at all times. So, the lock would not be an issue as it was in that particular case.

[GILMORE?]

Whycome teh joos live in Germany iffn thay ain't want a hallacaust, huh??

It was a bit more complex than that. It's simpler to say that the PD had more-modern comms, but the DD didn't.

Read all about it if you want

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07.....wanted=all

[GILMORE?]

"fd"

[Playa Manhattan.]

I wouldn't blame the mayor on that one.

Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department, the largest Sheriff in the United States, has 1960s era radio equipment.

The deputies can't even talk to EACH OTHER unless the dispatcher lays down a patch.

[Libertarian]

Obligatory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBKu9OJ8Ltk

[Xenophon]

If the US wanted to we could dust off our 1870s Indian policy, push the survivors onto reservations and in a hundred years Iraq would be a nice place to live.
Is it our manifest destiny?

[sloopyinTEXAS]

Plus we'd have more casinos to visit!

[Crusty Juggler]

I shall be buying stock in whomever manufactures Thunderbird wine.

[GILMORE?]

"E. & J. Gallo makes Thunderbird."

I think a revival of Crazy Horse malt liquor may be justified

[C. Anacreon]

Thunderbird?

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

So we'd make Iraq even worse?

[John Titor]

Rudy Guiliani, draft dodger (he applied for deferment, was rejected, and got a judge he was working for to write a letter classify him as essential), now says that there's no rules in war.

[Robert]

Well, didn't he prove it by what you just brought up?

[sloopyinTEXAS]

OT: Alexis Arquette is dead.

Xer brother issued an odd statement:

He wrote in a Facebook post on Sunday morning:

"Our brother Robert, who became our brother Alexis, who became our sister Alexis, who became our brother Alexis, passed this morning."

Alexis died September 11, at 12:32 a.m.

"He was surrounded by all of his brothers and sisters, one of his nieces and several other loved ones," Richmond wrote.

Describing Alexis' final moments, he said: "We were playing music for him and he passed during David Bowie's Starman."

[sloopyinTEXAS]

I don't think the trannies are gonna appreciate him referring to "him" like that. Wonder what that was all about.

Maybe he's a biologist.

[GILMORE?]

Wasn't one of the arquette bros a decent comedy actor in the 90s?

Never heard of the tranny one. Still pine for patty

[GILMORE?]

David

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Arquette

Married to Courtney Cox. So 90s it hurts

[GILMORE?]

.... became a pro wrestler??? Wtf

"During his tenure (primarily to promote his upcoming film Ready to Rumble), Arquette became a one-time WCW World Heavyweight Champion, an angle that has been cited as pivotal to the demise of WCW.[3]"""

No wonder he seemed to have dropped off the face of the earth

[Greg Loves His Woodchipper]

Him and Cox also created and produce "Celebrity Name Game" which is a guilty pleasure of mine.

[Crusty Juggler]

Patty has aged pretty well, and has avoided the plastic surgery Rosanna has received, which makes her look terrifying.

"Would you rather be 52 and look 52, or would you rather be 52 and look like a 28-year-old lizard?"

[Red Rocks Okey-Dokein]

It's a shame, too, because Rosanna was *smoking* hot and probably would have aged pretty well also if she'd left well enough alone.

I think she was in some documentary of older actresses, talking about how tough it was for them to find decent acting jobs when their looks started to go.

[Ted S.]

Didn't hurt May Robson.

[GILMORE?]

Oh bullshit

Plenty of female actresses did their best work in their 50s and 60s. The ones who bitch are the ones who can't act and relied on their looks

[gaoxiaen]

See Elizabeth Hurley link above.

[Red Rocks Okey-Dokein]

Well sure, I didn't say she was all that good of an actress. You'll notice the ones who are actually decent tend to not be very obvious about their plastic surgery procedures or have very little done to begin with. I do think the pressure in Hollywood to do that shit is pretty pervasive, though, especially considering every trophy wife around there is typically under the surgeon's knife.

[GILMORE?]

I wasn't calling bs on you, I was reacting to the "generic actress complaint", which is that they suggest that Hollywood only cares about their looks and not their talent so boo hoo hoo

Of course Hollywood cares about looks. But there are plenty of actresses who give the lie to that argument - in fact I think most of the "best" actresses in Hollywood probably did much of their best work in roles where looks were often irrelevant

[GILMORE?]

E.g

I don't think this is authoritative ... but think about the people on this list, and what their "best work's was... and often it's stuff from later in their lives

http://www.imdb.com/list/ls057000570/

Of course, many of them were still v attractive into their 50s... probably not coincidental....

[sloopyinTEXAS]

Wow. Kathy Bates should have been higher and Barbra Streisand should have been much lower.

[Trshmnstr smells of Lo Mein]

"As per his wishes," Richmond added, fittingly, "we cheered at the moment that he transitioned to another dimension."

I didn't realize that you could be transdimensional. I'm now officially transitioned to a 6th dimension energy creature.

[Ted S.]

Passed what?

[Homple]

Too bad Charlie Weaver isn't around to read us a Letter From Mamma on this family get together.

[Jerryskids]

It's been said before - Trump is a Democrat pretending to be a Republican and all he knows about acting like a Republican is what the Democrats believe to be true of them. Why would it be controversial to say we should have taken Iraq's oil? Isn't that exactly what we fought the war for? Sure, some of the GOP tried to pretend it wasn't all about the money but we all knew. Trump knows, he's just being honest and saying exactly what he assumes all Republicans are thinking.

Same with the flap over his abortion "gaffe" - he actually excused what he said by saying he'd been given an older copy of GOP talking points and didn't know the official party line on abortion had changed. IOW - he was just talking shit he thought he was supposed to be saying and didn't necessarily actually believe a word of it.

And Rudy "Nine. Eleven." Ghoulliani is just about as much a Republican as Trump. Or Christie. Or Mitt. Or Weld. Most any northeastern liberal Republican is quite a bit to the left of most any old-school Southern Democrat.

[Ken Shultz]

The lies about WMD and Al Qaeda collaboration notwithstanding, there were some real whoppers the American people were sold before the Iraq War about how much it would cost and who would pay for it.

?"There is a lot of money to pay for this that doesn't have to be US taxpayer money, and it starts with the assets of the Iraqi people. We are talking about a country that can really finance its own reconstruction and relatively soon."

----Paul Wolfowitz.

"Iraq has tremendous resources that belong to the Iraqi people. And so there are a variety of means that Iraq has to be able to shoulder much of the burden for their own reconstruction."

----Ari Fleischer

"It is unimaginable that the United States would have to contribute hundreds of billions of dollars and highly unlikely that we would have to contribute even tens of billions of dollars."

----Kenneth Pollack

"Iraq is a very wealthy country. Enormous oil reserves. They can finance, largely finance the reconstruction of their own country. And I have no doubt that they will."

----Richard Perle

"When it comes to reconstruction, before we turn to the American taxpayer, we will turn first to the resources of the Iraqi government and the international community."

----Donald Rumsfeld

http://tinyurl.com/zcrstfa

[Ken Shultz]

And then there's my favorite:

"Every analysis said this war itself would cost about $80 billion, recovery of Baghdad, perhaps of Iraq, about $10 billion per year. We should expect as American citizens that this would cost at least $100 billion for a two-year involvement."

----Dick Cheney

Direct costs between 2003 and 2010: $760 billion

CBO expects total costs to U.S. taxpayer to amount to $2.4 trillion.

http://tinyurl.com/nl2r7lc

According to the Costanza rule, if you believe it's true, it isn't really a lie. I suppose you could make that case for those who didn't know what would happen before the war started.

What's Giulliani's excuse looking back?

How can he look back and honestly think that we could have squeezed $2.4 trillion out of Iraq?

[Eman]

Personally, I like mayors who don't get planes flown into them

[OneOut]

Those are the true heros.

.

[Rebel Scum]

Well, if you are gonna commit acts of imperialism, you should at least do it right.

[Troy muy grande boner]

We can only hope that if the extermination camps ever return, that cocksucker Gulliani is the first in line.

[Threedoor]

The Iraqi oil infrastructure was and probably still is a mess, the roads stink, an there is no rail there at all. In order to take any of it you would have to invest tons of cash on rebuilding, shipping, and security and it dosent pencil out. It's cheeper to drill in Montana.

[Ken Shultz]

The other thing that bugs me is that . . . for baby-boomers/greatest generation people?

The first, most important lesson of international diplomacy for those generations was probably the mistakes of the Treaty of Versailles.

The reparations plan, the hyperinflation that sparked, the occupation of the Ruhr valley by the French because the money they were being given (when they got it) was practically worthless, . . .

Is everybody going to pretend like they've never heard of these problems before?

You know who else was made to pay for the price of their own occupation?

[S1]

Occupations are fucking expensive. The US was able to occupy Germany, Japan, South Korea, and foot the bill ourselves because we were insanely wealthy. Those days are over.

[John]

And we have forgotten that we took reparations from Germany just like the other allies. So we didn't even do those all on our dime.

[Ken Shultz]

If "we" is the United States, I do not believe we took reparations after World War I.

We took some industrial stuff after World War II, but that was basically a mistake. We actually sent tons of development cash to West Germany by way of the Marshall Plan. (The East Germans under the Soviets refused aid).

We sent 1950s $ billions to Japan, as well.

[Robert]

The hair braiders?

[Set Us Up The Chipper]

I seriously doubt that the Treaty of Versailles influenced many boomers in any sort of direct way. I was born in 1958. Versaille didn't have much effect on my personal life, my academic life later on maybe so.

[Ken Shultz]

It's a standard lesson.

I"m not a boomer or greatest generation either. But even I knew about the run up to the Second World War.

[Ken Shultz]

It's really not hard to persuade people to want revenge against the French, when inflation is out of control because they printed money to pay reparations and the French have invaded your country and are forcing Germans to mine coal at gun point.

If the French had wanted to antagonize the German people into another war, they could hardly have done a better job.

[Ken Shultz]

Here, this is effectively what Gulliani is saying we should have done to Iraq:

http://tinyurl.com/jqzomfn

[S1]

Has any country in history, other than the US, refrained from pillaging the countries it conquers or occupies?

Funny how all these treaties came into force right when the US became the preeminent military power after WW2, after the British, French, and Soviets took what they could from the Axis territories. And you can bet that if Russia and China achieve parity with the US, they'll completely ignore those treaties.

[DenverJ]

You know who else invaded countries and took their stuff?

[qjkxbmwvz]

Vikings?

[sloopyinTEXAS]

Raccoons?

[Suthenboy]

No no no. Fuckin' fire ants.

[qjkxbmwvz]

What's this "America's Mayor" stuff? I thought that he had only been the mayor of a city well over two thousand miles from where I live and that I've never visited. Hardly national.

[Suthenboy]

I am tired and grumpy. I usually don't argue well under these conditions but here comes the unvarnished truth:

There is no law in war. That is what war is - the suspension of civilized lawful behavior. Its a fight to the death and you fight to win. You don't fuck around dickering about rules and laws and civilized behavior. You don't send asswipe lawyers around with combat troops to make sure they behave. That dumb shit gets your own people killed. If you don't have the stomach for it pay up, bend your knee, whatever...and don't get in a war.

You cant civilize war.

[Playa Manhattan.]

The rules only apply to the losing side.

[John]

Since rules can only be enforced on the losers, they only apply to the losing side.

[John]

There is always a ready justification for the winners to do what they want. What Nick calls stealing resources, victorious nations call reparations. The allies took all kinds of private property, resources, patents and so forth from Germany after World War II. They were called reparations. The US could have done the same thing with Iraq's oil had it chosen to do so. If Nick knew anything about history or warfare, he would know that. But if he knew anything about history or warfare, he likely wouldn't be working for reason.

[Suthenboy]

"The US could have done the same thing with Iraq's oil "

Unlikely. I know an engineer...well knew, he has died...who worked in Iran for two decades. You cant do shit over there, cant have shit, cant accomplish shit. Build a pipeline? Every night some fucker wearing a dress goes out and puts a bomb on it. Try to truck it out? The drivers stop in the middle of nowhere and sell the oil, or part of it.

That kind of shit is why the cost overruns on everything we tried to do over there was a hundred times what cost overruns are here.

The whole thing was a lost cause before one American set foot in Iraq. Same thing in Afghanistan.

The only viable and least costly strategy was to bomb the living shit out of everything even remotely associated with the Taliban and stay the fuck out of Iraq. Keep Saddam contained and let him howl and stomp his feet.

[Set Us Up The Chipper]

I think punitive raids with some limited boots on the ground (like the successful special forces operations early in the Afghan conflict) would have been enough. Kill as many taliban as possible, tell them if they fuck with us again, we'll be back and even more pissed. Then leave.

[S1]

Except many of the Taliban are true believers who think they'll be rewarded in the afterlife if we blow them up.

[GamerFromJump]

Again, carpet-nuking Afghanistan on 9/12, then calling up every dipshit "leader" in the Islamic world and letting them know they're next, should it become necessary, would probably have helped a lot.

2 nukes convinced the Japanese, but the Islamics are even less rational than the Imperial Japanese were, so more convincing is needed.

Everything that has ensued from that day to this has come due to the illusion that Jihadistan is inhabited by remotely rational human beings.

[S1]

How did Saddam keep the oil flowing then? And how do the Saudis?

[Gaear Grimsrud]

"and don't get in a war"
Always been my preferred strategy.

[Suthenboy]

Hear, hear.

[The Fusionist]

The Christian just-war doctrine was a rebuttal to pacifism, which in the absence of the just-war doctrine would seem to be the only viable Christian position.

And if we look at how post-Christian societies behave in war, maybe the idea of legal restraints on the warriors doesn't seem too bad.

[John]

The rule is this. When a country invades and occupies another country, all of the public property can be lawfully commandeered and used by the occupying force. Private property can be taken but the occupying power must pay compensation. Here is the interesting quirk of that. In a socialist country like Saddam's Iraq the government owns all of the natural resources and the companies that extract them. So strictly speaking, an occupying country can take property that would in a capitalist country require compensation without providing any compensation because it is state owned in a socialist country.

So strictly speaking, Gulliani is right here but for the wrong reasons. Realizing that requires knowing something about the subject, which Nick doesn't and clearly has no interesting in learning.

[Crusty Juggler]

John, Nick did not write this post.

[John Titor]

Clearly, as it lacks the shallow attempts at cultural analysis and references to Boomer rock bands and bad comedy.

[Ted S.]

That's never stopped John before.

[__Warren__]

Enough of this unimportant stuff: For the first time in what seems like a decade the Buccaneers are alone in first place in the NFC South.

Yes it's only the first week and they have plenty of time to Buc things up but for now it's a delight to enjoy.

Previous years' teams would have collapsed in the 4th but these guys held on and stopped the Falcons when it mattered.

And thanks to the Raiders for beating the Saints, that means every other NFC South team lost this weekend.

Big props to the Raiders who went for two to get the lead with only 35 seconds left. That's a bold move for a coach to make.

[Crusty Juggler]

All that and more on tonight's _Warren_'s Sports Machine.

[__Warren__]

Watching the CFL I'm stunned to see that you can have four players in motion and going towards the line at the snap!

Also you can challenge the fact that a penalty wasn't called. Weird.

[sloopyinTEXAS]

If you're using CFLs, I'm surprised you can see anything. They suck.

[__Warren__]

Their endzone is massive. Lot of room to work in there, and they keep their goal posts at the front.

Candidans are strang.

[__Warren__]

Their penalty flags are red AND their challenge flags are yellow!

[__Warren__]

The refs handle a challenge in like 10 seconds. That's awesome.

[__Warren__]

Three-minute warning? No net behind the goal posts so the ball goes into the corwd and is not recovered?

Are these Canshadians kings that they can just give away money like that?

[__Warren__]

Cabnidian womaen have breasts just like American women!

[__Warren__]

A punter was wearing #70. A lineman who punts. Cool, maybe?

[__Warren__]

The punter is also the place kicker. Not so unusual, but to also be a lineman?

[S1]

Like most of Canadian "culture", it's copied from something American and modified slightly so they can call it theirs.

[John Titor]

Like most of Canadian "culture", it's copied from something American and modified slightly so they can call it theirs.

Get back to us when you've wrote a cheque for stealing basketball.

[__Warren__]

We didn't steal basketball, we just borrowed it and you're so polite you haven't asked for it back.

[S1]

Basketball was invented in the US. But the effeminate -que endings are all yours buddy.

[Suthenboy]

To be fair almost everything 'American' is copied from someone else. Generally we modify it for the better. This has proven to be a very successful cultural strategy.

[sloopyinTEXAS]

Generally we modify it for the better.

Except for beer.

[Libertarian]

True only up to the boom in micros.

[Ted S.]

Also you can challenge the fact that a penalty wasn't called. Weird.

You can do that in the NFL with 12 men on the field. (The Packers did that today, and have done it a couple times in the past.)

[S1]

Also an illegal forward pass penalty (or lack thereof) is challengeable.

IMHO everything should be challengeable, including penalties, subject to the "indisputable evidence" standard of course.

[That's A Bingo!]

Hillary Clinton has pneumonia. Explains her coughing but not the "fainting."

[__Warren__]

More like oldmonia, amirite?

[sloopyinTEXAS]

I lolled

[S1]

The William Henry Harrison parallels grow stronger.

[C. Anacreon]

So that's why they keep calling her "Tippecanoe".

[sloopyinTEXAS]

I knew her health had been declining. You don't go from dodging sniper fire to being tossed in your van like you're a suitcase in 20 years unless something is deteriorating.

[S1]

You wouldn't look much better if you were married to Bill Clinton for 40 years.

[sloopyinTEXAS]

So I think I've figured out what happened with Hillary earlier today.

She and Bill are no longer together and she needs a new man, or woman. Her heart was all aflutter after meeting her prince, or princess, charming that she lost track of time. And so she had to rush to her carriage before the strike of 12 (noon this time even though the original says midnight) but she was so overcome with happiness that she felt faint, yet she had to leave her shoe behind so the prince, or princess, can find her when he/she sees the Chappaqua logo of the shoemaker and goes to all the women in town. She will meet her mate and they will live happily ever after in a big White House.

[S1]

She can't make it through a speech without a coughing fit, she can't make it through a ceremony without overheating and becoming dehydrated. Not good for a person running for president.

Imagine how fucked she'd be if she were facing a real candidate instead of a clown! Democrats have to be thanking their lucky stars for Donald Trump.

.... assuming it was just luck, that is.

[sloopyinTEXAS]

The comments on Salon and WaPo are incredible. I had no idea there were that many experts in heat management, human biology and every other thing in the world that could be used to deflect.

One dumbass was stupid enough to suggest that with that many people there in the sun, like 50k of them, they created a mini-heat wave the equivalent of 50k BTUs, which would increase the temperature by probably 30 degrees. I don't suppose he wants to test that theory by getting 50k of his retarded proggie buddies to go out in normal attire in Fargo, ND sometime in the middle of January.

[__Warren__]

There's a Kickstater I'd be willing to donate to.

[Libertarian]

So, long story short, global warming claims another victim?

[Libertarian]

As usual, the NYTimes doesn't whitewash anything having to do with a Democrat.

"The statement from her physician came after Mrs. Clinton ABRUPTLY LEFT a ceremony in New York marking the 15th anniversary of the Sept. 11 attacks."

"Her campaign said Mrs. Clinton felt "overheated" at the event, and a video appeared to show her struggling to MAINTAIN HER BALANCE."

[BigT]

Another(!) coverup by the DNC, provided you believe it's pneumonia, and not Parkinson's, which is a better fit to her months of issues.

And another bad judgment demo by Hilldog - if she has pneumonia what the hell was she doing with hectic schedules?

Parkinson's!! I'd bet.

[C. Anacreon]

What sx are you seeing that are consistent with Parkinson disease?

It would be interesting if she is being secretly treated for it, as psychosis is a very common side effect to Parkinson drugs.

[OneOut]

And Trump, who was close to her, had an invisible heat ray deflector given to him by Putin.

[Pope Jimbo]

HEY! I grew up near Fargo and still have a soft spot for it.

Why not Albuquerque? The cops there need more targets anyhow.

[John Titor]

Image of Hillary as she assumes the office in January.

[sloopyinTEXAS]

I was thinking more along the lines of this.

[Crusty Juggler]

I always think of this, although this is also appropriate.

[Trshmnstr smells of Lo Mein]

She's playing 4D chess here, guys!

[Brian]

The scandal is always what's legal.

[Libertarian]

OT: If I ever plan to sue someone, I'm going to South Carolina.

Woman stuck by needle in Target parking lot awarded $4.6 million

"Court documents say the Anderson woman was in the retailer's parking lot in May 2014 when her daughter picked up a hypodermic needle. Garrison swatted it out of her hand and was stuck in her own palm."

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016.....llion.html

[sloopyinTEXAS]

How the fuck are they liable?

[__Warren__]

They're just a convenient target for the lawyer.

[Libertarian]

consider my gaze narrowed

[S1]

Because they cater to the transgender population with their bathroom policy.

[Suthenboy]

It does sound like symptoms of pneumonia but I don't think that diagnosis means what her defenders think it means.

I will let Groovus tell all when he gets free from his familial obligations.

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

I think Grovious might go with Parkinson's Disease.

[Suthenboy]

Generally pneumonia is symptomatic of another problem.

[Libertarian]

She's 68 and her doctor gave her some antibiotics and told her to take it easy?!?!?! I don't think so -- not with pneumonia.

And as I said in an earlier thread, I've never seen someone jerk their head *upward* in the process of fainting.

[C. Anacreon]

You can have a minor pneumonia only affecting one lobe of one lung which can resolve rather quickly.
Most common would be a viral pneumonia, which means antibiotics would make little sense.

[Ted S.]

AIDS?

[S1]

As you and I both know, Parkinson's Disease viruses are marked at the top and bottom "PARKINSON'S DISEASE". Hillary has not received or sent any viruses that were so marked.

[Sevo]

You're right. How could she know?

[__Warren__]

She didn't intend to get sick.

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

The Pirate side of me agrees with Mr. Giuliani. However, if you want to turn a former enemy into a friend you provide just enough security for you former enemy to rebuild himself. You know like Japan, and Germany. Not like we did in Iraq.

[S1]

Yeah, because Iraq was just like Germany and Japan.

The fact that they were 60+ years ago also has enabled a great deal of whitewashing of our occupations of G and J, btw.

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

And just like Germany we purged all Baathist party members, just like we purged all Nazi party members. You know. The people who were still around to run a government, but had little to do with the killing.

[S1]

From da wiki:

By December 1945 over 100,000 German civilians were interned as security threats and for possible trial and sentencing as members of criminal organizations.

The food situation in occupied Germany was initially very dire. By the spring of 1946 the official ration in the American zone was no more than 1,275 calories (5,330 kJ) per day, with some areas probably receiving as little as 700 calories (2,900 kJ) per day. In the British zone the food situation was dire, as found during a visit by the British (and Jewish) publisher Victor Gollancz in October and November 1946. In D?sseldorf the normal 28-day allocation should have been 1,548 calories (6,480 kJ) including 10 kilograms (22 lb) of bread, but as there was limited grain the bread ration was only 8.5 kilograms (19 lb). However, as there was only sufficient bread for about 50% of this "called up" ration, the total deficiency was about 50%, not 15% as stated in a ministerial reply in the British Parliament on 11 December. So only about 770 calories (3,200 kJ) would have been supplied, and he said the German winter ration would be 1,000 calories (4,200 kJ) as the recent increase was "largely mythical". His book includes photos taken on the visit and critical letters and newspaper articles by him published in several British newspapers; The Times, The Daily Herald, The Manchester Guardian, etc.

[S1]

Some occupation soldiers took advantage of the desperate food situation by exploiting their ample supply of food and cigarettes (the currency of the black market) to get to the local German girls as what became known as frau bait (The New York Times, June 25, 1945). Some soldiers still felt the girls were the enemy, but used them for sex nevertheless.

The often destitute mothers of the resulting children usually received no child support. In the earliest stages of the occupation, U.S. soldiers were not allowed to pay maintenance for a child they admitted having fathered, since to do so was considered "aiding the enemy". Marriages between white U.S. soldiers and Austrian women were not permitted until January 1946, and with German women until December 1946.

Had Bush done 10% of this the UN and media would have been on his throat. But it was Harry Truman's administration so it's OK.

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

Paul Bremer.

Go ask the Spartan's.

[Troy muy grande boner]

Is Hillary even going to make it to the election? I say we start a pool when she is gonna kick the bucket. I'm going to pick Halloween because that would just be too cool. Yet I hope this evil bitch dies sooner rather than later. No wait. Because if that happens, the Dems might get a competent candidate. So mysterious tall, fat, black Secret Service Agent, keep pumping her with drugs.

[Hyperion]

And in other news, no one expected this:

Hillary falls down again

Pneumonia, lololololol

[AlmightyJB]

Gerald Ford used to trip all of the time. The left used to love making fun of him about it

[Cyto]

That was Chevy Chase. Ford slipped getting on the stairs of Air Force One a couple of times. That was then lampooned by Chase on SNL in a recurring joke. It doomed Ford to being "the clumsy guy", just as Tina Fey doomed Sarah Palin to be the one who can see Russia from her front porch.

[Gray Ghost]

Especially funny as Gerald Ford was probably one of the most athletically gifted men we've ever had in the Oval Office. How many Presidents could have played C and LB for a D-1 college?

[cavalier973]

Ford was also lampooned in "The Pink Panther Strikes Again".

As was Kissinger, and probably some other politicos.

[__Warren__]

What does Hillary Clinton know about Hillary Clinton?

[Hyperion]

That she wants to be president before she falls over dead.

[Crusty Juggler]

That Webb Hubbell doesn't pull out.

[Mr Lizard]

STEVE SMITH CAN SYMPATHIZE

[Hyperion]

The stuff of nightmares!

[Libertarian]

Why are you posting a picture of Ozzy Osbourne?

[AlmightyJB]

Pass

[That's A Bingo!]

That video of Hillary walking out of Chelsea's apartment with the little girl running up to her is funny, as it's literally out of the movie "Wag the Dog."

[__Warren__]

How come Hillary doesn't use her Tricknology to make all these problems go away?

[BigT]

Another(!) coverup by the DNC, provided you believe it's pneumonia, and not Parkinson's, which is a better fit to her months of issues.

And another bad judgment demo by Hilldog - if she has pneumonia what the hell was she doing with hectic schedules?

Trump should be hammering the coverup and bad judgment aspects of this, rather than the 'not fit' which could elicit sympathy.

[S1]

I don't think Trump is in any position to throw stones about bad judgement.

Maybe the GOP should have nominated a real candidate instead of a clown?

[BigT]

Haha! Libya, Russia, Syria, email server, Hillarycare, Whitewater, pork futures, Clinton Fundation, etc, etc, and now risking her health, maybe her life, in the grasp for power.

Very sad. Very evil.

And why are Bill and Chelsea letting her kill herself? (Bill, we understand)

[S1]

Let's suppose Hillary is at death's door for the sake of argument. How does that help Trump? The only thing that makes him remotely palatable is the fact it's him or Hillary. If Hillary is not going to last much past inauguration, then it's him or the garden-variety Democrat Tim Kaine.

Conservatives don't like Kaine much better than Hillary, but independents would flock to him. I don't think playing up Hillary's health issues helps Trump much (though he's beyond help at this point).

[BigT]

Yes, Hitlery withdrawing in favor of Kaine would be very bad for Trump. Donkeys and Indies could ignore the sleaze factor

[S1]

Let's suppose Hillary is at death's door for the sake of argument. How does that help Trump? The only thing that makes him remotely palatable is the fact it's him or Hillary. If Hillary is not going to last much past inauguration, then it's him or the garden-variety Democrat Tim Kaine.

Conservatives don't like Kaine much better than Hillary, but independents would flock to him. I don't think playing up Hillary's health issues helps Trump much (though he's beyond help at this point).

[PapayaSF]

Because people associate a president with someone who can protect the country. Not to mention optics of collapsing at the 9/11 memorial service. Nobody turns to a sick grandmother for protection. She has very possibly lost the election today. As long as Trump can keep his mouth under control, and there isn't truly massive Democratic vote fraud, he wins.

[S1]

Nobody turns to a slimy reality show clown for protection, either. Trump is just as likely to get us in trouble with his mouth than he is to "protect the country".

And if she dies early, we get somebody who is light-years ahead of Trump when it comes to presidentiality. This is not a winning issue for him.

I think Trump needs to promise to die early in his term to keep up with HRC. Pence vs. Kaine might be a match the GOP can win. We cannot afford an early death gap.

[BigT]

"Nobody turns to a slimy reality show clown for protection, either. "

Haha. Were you asleep during the primaries?

OK, you're just an ignorant troll. Bye.

[GILMORE?]

presidentiality.

wut

Are you the same dude who was insisting that Michelle Obama was the stealth candidate that was going to sweep to victory?

[S1]

I fucking hope not.

[BigT]

An incapacitated, or unstable (!!) Prez is a big issue. Imagine the hag going catatonic in a discussion about a Russian invasion of Estonia. Or nuking of S Korea. Or attack on Israel. Or dirty bomb in Philly.

We might not survive another Wilson.

[S1]

The 25th amendment addresses that situation.

Section 3. Whenever the President transmits to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives his written declaration that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, and until he transmits to them a written declaration to the contrary, such powers and duties shall be discharged by the Vice President as Acting President.

Section 4. Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, transmit to the President pro tempore of the Senate and the Speaker of the House of Representatives their written declaration that the President is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office, the Vice President shall immediately assume the powers and duties of the office as Acting President.

[BigT]

Haha! Yeah, those are the words. In practice, who knows.

[Cyto]

In practice, Alexander Haig is in charge here.

[thom]

that he is unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office

The text makes it clear that this wouldn't apply to Hillary.

[GamerFromJump]

If Hillary cacks, maybe Obama will issue an executive order suspending the election until a replacement for Herself can be found.

/tinfoil hat

[Gray Ghost]

Until Groovus or Anacreon or another doc shows up...a couple of questions/points:

If it was heat stroke that debilitated Hil, why didn't anyone take off her jacket, put some fans on her, that sort of thing? Also, who gets heat stroke standing there in 75 degree weather? And who recovers from heat stroke in the 90 minutes or so she was in Chelsea's apt?

If pneumonia instead, then why isn't she in a hospital? Wasn't there a comment from the press that they'd been with her constantly this last week, and she hasn't had the time to go to a hospital, get chest x-rays, blood draws: all the shit you'd normally do for a pneumonia patient?

I think, though I'm not a doc, that she's suffering from something giving her congestive heart failure, and that it's a chronic condition. Hence the rumors of having a cath or some other medical device attached to her all of the time, the coughs from something like lisinopril, the inability to walk up steps without an handrail, etc...

If she's like this during the campaign, how the hell is she supposed to make it through what is one of the toughest jobs in the world? Look at before/after pictures of guys like Bill Clinton, W. , or Obama. The job eats people alive. Even O, as lazy as that fucker is. She won't make it two years should she get elected.

I've been on board awhile here with the Dems getting some other candidate in there---just not sure of the step between "underwear" and "profit!"

[BigT]

One doc has a video arguing it's Parkinson's. Seems to fit since its chronic and getting worse.

I asked my MD cousin, and he said it fits, but needs more data (of course).

[C. Anacreon]

Usually you would expect to see a resting tremor with Parkinson, which disappears with intention (purposeful movement). I haven't seen any tremor with Hillary. Doesn't rule it out, but it's one strike against it in a differential diagnosis.

There is another possibility that has been suggested: progressive supranuclear palsy. It's super-rare but might be more consistent with what we've seen in her.

Big issue with progressive supranuclear palsy is that it is progressive, like the name says -- which doesn't mean left-wing, it means you continue to get worse in most cases.

[Gray Ghost]

I've read some tinfoily stuff that it's epilepsy and that some of her gadgetry (E.g., VNS and assorted magnets) to manage the condition is hard on electronic equipment.

Anacreon, what's your SWAG about what she's suffering from? I know: she's not your patient, you're not her doctor, yadda, yadda. I'm still curious about the opinion from a medical professional.

[Ted S.]

There is another possibility that has been suggested: progressive supranuclear palsy. It's super-rare but might be more consistent with what we've seen in her.

RIP Dudley Moore.

[GILMORE?]

If pneumonia instead, then why isn't she in a hospital? Wasn

Seriously. If you've got pneumonia so bad that it can cause physical collapse, they would want to have that person under observation for 24hours... i'd think.

My brother who's on Clozapine has almost AIDS-patient-like problems w/ white blood-cells because of it, which means he can contract a range of minor infections and end up near-death because his immune system is so fucked. He's contracted pneumonia a handful of times, and every time they put him up overnight until they're ok he's stable.

[Ted S.]

My sympathies to your brother.

[GILMORE?]

Oh, trust me, the white-blood-cells thing is like ....nothing, a lark, a welcome minor distraction... compared to the *reasons* for the Clozapine. Just take my word for it.

[Ted S.]

My mom was only put on meds for bipolar once she was in the nursing home. (Ironically about a week after that she suffered the heart attack that killed her.)

So yeah, I know what it's like to live with mental illness. 🙁

[GILMORE?]

but thanks for the sentiment

[S1]

Good questions all. Also, there was nobody giving her water in that video, which I would think would be the first treatment for dehydration.

[John]

I have been saying for a while now there is no way in hell she lives through four years of being President if she is elected. It is obvious that she is not up to the job. She should have never been nominated in her current condition. She was only nominated because the media lied and covered it. The hack media may have put the country into one hell of a bind because I don't think it is going to be so easy to just replace her with someone else before the election.

[Sevo]

Hey! No prob!
Give Kaine a vaginal implant and trot crazy old Uncle Joe out there as Veep to 'silence hecklers with just four words!' (AP told me that).

[AlmightyJB]

It's the Democrats so he doesn't need a vag to be a woman.

[Sevo]

"If pneumonia instead, then why isn't she in a hospital? Wasn't there a comment from the press that they'd been with her constantly this last week, and she hasn't had the time to go to a hospital, get chest x-rays, blood draws: all the shit you'd normally do for a pneumonia patient?"

Last person I knew with pneumonia (and about that age), the doc didn't say 'take two aspirin and call me in the morning'. He said 'we're scheding you into radiology right now to check your lungs'.

[Jerryskids]

*koff, koff*

No, I don't have pneumonia - or Parkinson's - I'm just trying to modestly draw your attention to the fact that one of us kept saying long after it should have been apparent he was joking or crazy or stupid that Joe Biden was going to be the next President. It's happening, babeee.

(Note: Yes, I am aware that just because I may turn out to be right about Biden does not preclude my being crazy and/or stupid. I was not, however, joking.)

[GILMORE?]

Its still not happening. If hillary drops out, i'm not sure how the DNC would be able to arbitrarily nominate someone.

she'll run even if she's on a respirator.

[Ted S.]

I think they'd have to leave her on the ballot, and if she won, Kaine would become President. (I'm not certain if it's 25A, but I'm pretty certain there's a clause in the constitution about what happens if the President-Elect dies before inauguration day.)

[S1]

That's the 20th amendment. 25th addresses (among other things) a president becoming incapacitated during his term.

[Gray Ghost]

Why can't it be done similar to how the Dems handled Eagleton? Kaine becomes the Pres candidate and the he/the DNC pick a new VP?

[S1]

Eagleton wasn't running for president, and got replaced much earlier. As we saw with the Ohio AG trying to block Johnson replacing the placeholders on the ballots there, the deadlines for changing the ballots have already passed.

[That's A Bingo!]

Eagleton? They merged into Pawnee.

[GILMORE?]

OT =

so anyway, i was getting all kinds of hinky Windows problems over the past week, and decided to wipe my computer and bring it back to factory-shipped-spec

interestingly, my keyboard which over the past month had lost functionality in 3 different keys?.... suddenly is fully operational again.

which is a side-effect i'd not expected. Never even heard that before. Windows gets corrupted or something... and it starts to lose key-recognition? bizarre.

and yes, STFU you linux fuckers. we know. MS sux

[Rhywun]

I was wondering why my keylogger reports from you were missing all the W's, T's, and F's.

[AlmightyJB]

That's why you have webcam confirmation.

[GILMORE?]

For the record, it was l-ctrl, #6, left bracket, and the delete key

god (*Microsoft Demons, rather) knows why.

[Sevo]

"....the delete key..."

NOOOOO!

[GILMORE?]

yes, that was a problematic one. I remapped it to "insert" using this

https://sharpkeys.codeplex.com/

the l-ctrl was even more-annoying

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

It's the craft brewers Gilly. Web are hacking you to know all of the secrets to brewing shit beer. =D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17JfCG5XOoM

[Homple]

What kind of cloth did you use?

[Timon 19]

I prefer to point and laugh.

[DenverJ]

You can't do "penetrating testing" of your neighbours' wifi with Windows. OTH, playing games or doing office work is much harder on a Linux box. Solution? Dual boot, or Kali Linux on a thumb drive.

[Ted S.]

I've got Libre Office on my Linux box. I should add I'm not particularly into games.

[DenverJ]

I like libre. I even use it on my windows partition.

[Timon 19]

Yeah, LibreOffice really isn't any worse than Word (which should be sort of embarrassing to MS), it's just different in some areas. I would say some UI choices and default behaviors are much, much worse in MS' product.

[AlmightyJB]

"You can't do "penetrating testing" of your neighbours' wifi with Windows."

You can't?

[DenverJ]

I can't. Something about putting the wifi card into the right mode.

[S1]

Q: What's the only useful Windows program?

A: PuTTY.

[Timon 19]

Or Cygwin.

[GILMORE?]

What in the everloving christ are you talking about. I don't want to hump my computer.

[AlmightyJB]

"international treaties, conventions, and laws"

That's so cute

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1dpQKntj_w

[The Fusionist]

Is the Constitution "cute"? It certainly gets ignored a whole lot.

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_4dkmodnZk

[AlmightyJB]

It's not that the laws are "cute", it's the idea that the US government gives a shit about them.

[The Fusionist]

Ah, then agreed.

[commodious dares eat a peach]

Dear Donald, you imbecile, you have been gifted a reprieve here by God himself who, probably for the same reasons the rest of us feel, has decided to grant your campaign an extra life: shut the everloving fuck up. Just shut the fuck up and let this play out. You and your media proxies are retards with retard mouths spouting retard words, so if you might kindly shut them all up for a few hours, you will find yourselves better off.

[The Fusionist]

Presidents used to stay home while the party press and other politicians campaigned on their behalf.

It was part of the fiction of the office seeking the man, I suppose.

Trump can move into one of his buildings and play Halo while all the Trump people, in a mature and sensible fashion, make the case for him....

Well, there's still a few bugs in my plan.

[Jimmy Free Trade Pirate]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFiPANvxfDg

[commodious dares eat a peach]

Fuck a book, nigga.

[AlmightyJB]

I can't really tell the difference between rap and parody rap?

[The Fusionist]

parody rap

real rap

[The Fusionist]

Not to be confused with this

[AlmightyJB]

Well sure if you go back 30 years.

[The Fusionist]

You mean the Golden Age?

[AlmightyJB]

Word

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

Seems like he has so far. Probably the best move he's made in months.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

To lighten up this Sunday, here is a picture of an ass hole.

[The Fusionist]

shake that ass

[AlmightyJB]

That's the HM signal.

[The Fusionist]

No, this is

[AlmightyJB]

I gave her a like for being cute.

[commodious dares eat a peach]

I hate the jump transitions, because apparently scripting involves never ever having lapses in dialogue? No, fuck you, that's lazy.

And the pimples around her nose. They're borderline rosacea. I have enough myself, and I'm not allowed to wear makeup to cover them up. The up the nostril shot is not flattering, dear.

But yes, she is cute.

[commodious dares eat a peach]

"My" having an existential crisis. Good lord, girl, it's call a gerund.

[AlmightyJB]

That's an ass in a hole.

[Domestic Dissident]

I'm kind of torn here. Part of me is hoping that the cretinous, vile witch just dies now (frankly the world will be a much better place when that happens), but another part of me thinks that might be the best possible thing that could happen for the democrats.

[Gray Ghost]

but another part of me thinks that might be the best possible thing that could happen for the democrats.

How much of Trump's support is, "anyone but that bitch Hillary..."? I'm thinking it's a ton.

[__Warren__]

Hillary was dragged into the van.

[The Fusionist]

Where's OMWC?

[The Fusionist]

(strictly a joke, ha ha)

[AlmightyJB]

He's in bed early cause he's old and he has to get up early to cruise the school bus stops.

[Playa Manhattan.]

Nah, he gets them on the way home.

[That's A Bingo!]

That's the most annoying part of the news coverage: Every single report I've seen has had some variation of "struggled to walk." She was unable to walk. That's a huge difference.

The zoomed out view shows her being loaded in like a manikin.

[__Warren__]

My wife, the borderline hypochondriac, with the certainty that comes with no expertise whatsoever is saying it's neurocutaneous melanocytosis.

[commodious dares eat a peach]

I want to google that, but I'm also very lazy and you should describe it for me because it sounds complicated.

[GILMORE?]

without even googling, that's a fucking skin problem

[Playa Manhattan.]

No, it's a serious brain problem. But also wrong.

[GILMORE?]

well take out the "neuro" and still sounds pretty "skin-stuff" to me.

[__Warren__]

The list of symptoms has a lot of skin stuff but it comes from inside.

[GILMORE?]

it comes from inside.

So basically, "flesh-disease of the brain". Sounds like a hot date.

[straffinrun]

I don't think it's Parkinson's. More likely it just started raining.

[goneGalt]

Alright, I've waited long enough.

You know WHO ELSE had Parkinson's?

[Libertarian]

+1 Ding Dong

[The Fusionist]

OMG Hillary is sick, if she's elected she won't be able to...ah...

You know what, if she's elected she should just stay in bed convalescing in the Lincoln Bedroom, watching House of Cards, and Kaine serves as Acting President.

Is there something about Kaine making him worse than Clinton? I sure hope not.

[S1]

Is there something about Kaine making him worse than Clinton?

He has a penis.

[The Fusionist]

Innocent until proven guilty.

[S1]

Insert Weiner joke

[Libertarian]

I think you just did.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

If she's still president in name, why would Kaine be acting president? Wouldn't Bill or Huma or some other adviser be making all the decisions? If they're going to make the effort to keep her propped up, it would largely defeat the purpose to let Kaine step in.

[The Fusionist]

Get Bill out of the way by giving him a job.

Didn't the IRS confiscate some brothel somewhere? Make Bill the manager.

[S1]

25th Amendment says the VP becomes acting president when he and majority of cabinet can find the president unable to carry out the duties of the office.

[Ken Shultz]

It's all just going to the highest bidder anyway.

Oh, and I'm not necessarily buying pneumonia as the diagnosis.

For all we know, she could have had a mild stroke or Parkinson's Disease.

Since when does pneumonia make you collapse?

Snopes debunks the Parkinson's Disease rumor here:

http://www.snopes.com/hillary-.....s-disease/

And by "debunks" I mean "makes me suspect Parkinson's more than I did before I read Snopes.

[SIV]

"Dr. Orva: Here. You smoke this, and be sure you get the smoke deep down into your lungs.
Miles Monroe: I don't smoke.
Dr. Orva: It's tobacco. It's one of the healthiest things for your body. Now go ahead. You need all the strength you can get."

[Ken Shultz]

Ulcerative colitis is like that.

If you smoke tobacco, it probably goes away completely.

The doctors will tell you, though, that if get cancer from colitis, they can take out your colon and give you a colostomy bag, but if you get lung cancer from smoking, . . . they can't just take your lungs out.

That being said, if I were someone who had colitis and the regular medication stopped working, so they put me on steroids, and that stopped working, too? Instead of them giving me a colostomy, I'd probably try vaping first, cigarettes next, and then see what happens.

I think I'd rather risk lung cancer than definitely have a colostomy, but that's just me.

[Ken Shultz]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pm.....MC2014383/

[SIV]

What is the risk of contracting lung cancer from smoking anyways? I mean the risk before average life expectancy in the post-industrial West for otherwise healthy people. I know it is statistically significant , and there are many other health risks correlated with smoking, but the risk of shaving less than 5 years off end-of-life isn't really worrisome until you're there anyways. Particularly if you greatly enjoy smoking, can afford it, and are otherwise healthy.

[You Sound Like a Prog (MJG)]

Matty makes a funny.

At least, I hope. Or else we may have finally reached peak derp.

You don't see people overheating in Canada and Sweden where they have single-payer health care and less inequality.

[Sevo]

Second comment:
"well we do, but we don't consider avoiding medical help because of cost."

You can say that again.
Wife had an injury, we decided to wait overnight to see if it needed care. Happened to speak with an ex-pat CDN doc a couple of days later.
He said 'In Canada, you go REGARDLESS, since if it does need care and you wait, you've lost your place in the queue!'
Not only do they not avoid help since it's free (and worth it), the system is set up such to *encourage* overuse.

[Hyperion]

It's Sad Beard. You do know that it's not possible to earn the name Sad Beard without being clinically retarded, right?

Also, people don't typically overheat in Canada or Sweden because it's not above absolute zero in September.

[Playa Manhattan.]

I don't see a lot of people overheating in Antartica either. They must have the best free hospitals in the world.

[Suthenboy]

That isnt really inconsistent with the level of derp and mendacity we have been getting in a steady stream from the left lately. They aren't even trying. Obumbles set the stage for everyone else to pretend they live in a banana republic. Turns out the saying "You become what you pretend to be" is true.

[Hyperion]

15 to 19 thousand French ppl died during their last heatwave in '03, you jerk

The wonders of socialism never fail to amaze.

[commodious dares eat a peach]

Who are you quoting?

[Hyperion]

It's from the Sad Beard tweet comments.

[Crusty Juggler]

WaPo story about the Secret Service's reaction to her fall, and a little about the pathetic press access both she (and Trump) allow.

[Hyperion]

Humpty Hillary is getting ready to take a big fall, and all the Media and the DNC won't be able to put Humpty Hillary back together again. Watch, you heard it here first.

[Sevo]

"Editor's note: This story has been updated to remove the assertion that the Secret Service may have broken protocol in responding to Clinton's illness, which was published before the agency was able to respond. In a statement sent later, a spokesman for the agency said that "at no time did any Secret Service personnel violate security protocols."

Isn't this sorta like allowing someone to edit your copy and 'correct' it without citation?

[That's A Bingo!]

Is there protocol for when a protectee is a danger to themselves?

[Brian]

Do we really want a sick president with her finger on the nuclear button?

[Hyperion]

Do we even want a healthy neocon war monger with her finger on the nuclear button?

[That's A Bingo!]

Is the nuclear button wireless? Is the sick president bed ridden?

[Homple]

It looks just like a TV remote. The number keys choose which countries to immolate.

[Brian]

Do you really want a nuclear remote with its fingers in a president?

[Homple]

Depends on the President and where the fingers are.

[JayU]

Do we really want a president who will use her own private nuclear button?

[Sevo]

We all know the world's peace and prosperity is dependent on the guiding sages of the UN, right?

"North Korea's foreign minister departs for UN meeting"
[...]
"Ri plans to attend the summit of the Non-Aligned Movement in Venezuela and then go on to the U.N. General Assembly in New York."
http://www.sfchronicle.com/new.....216487.php

"Non-Aligned" with reality, decency, prosperity, toilet paper or morality. Really "aligned" with slimy dictators.

[straffinrun]

Just a flesh wound.

[Rockabilly]

War boner

[straffinrun]

It was just a day ago she claimed it was Trump who "projects phony strength". http://www.realclearpolitics.c.....ength.html

Not an ounce of sympathy for that POS from me.

[SIV]

What are you ladies fagging off to?

Finally coming around to hopping the #MAGA train, I hope.

[That's A Bingo!]

I'm starting to suspect the Russian's made Hillary faint.

[GILMORE?]

THE RUSSIAN'S WHAT??

[Libertarian]

"dart gun"

[Libertarian]

FFFFFFFFFFFFT!

[Libertarian]

Ooooh, bad timing on the New Yorker's part today.

http://www.newyorker.com/humor.....mod-latest

[PapayaSF]

Partisans are saying that about her now.

[GILMORE?]

Poll: Unconscious Clinton More Fit to Be President Than Conscious Trump

Yes, but that's only because people presume she's supposed to STAY that way for the remainder of her term

[Sevo]

Now that is FUNNY!

[Homple]

Andy Borowitz's live birth was bad timing.

[Suthenboy]

That reads like an Onion article.

[PapayaSF]

"Nothing to see here, folks! She's just a 68 year old grandmother with pneumonia. And regular coughing fits. And a history of falls. And a concussion, and thrombosis. And vision problems, occasional odd movements, an unsteady gait, and balance problems requiring flat shoes even though some heels would make her swollen legs look better. And some weight gain. And a catheter. And a little slurred speech sometimes. And even though we now say we hid her pneumonia for the last three days, it's a conspiracy theory to say we're hiding anything else about her health."

[Libertarian]

And severe memory problems. Unless, of course, you're so cynical as to believe that her answers during the FBI interview were blatant avoidance.

[Sevo]

"The Latest: Clinton calls off plans to travel to West Coast"
[...]
"NEW YORK (AP) ? The Latest on the 2016 race for president (all times EDT):
10:24 p.m.
Hillary Clinton is calling off plans to visit the West Coast on Monday and Tuesday following a health episode at the 9/11 memorial.
Clinton abruptly left the anniversary ceremony on Sunday morning and needed to be held up by three people before she appeared to stumble off a curb and was helped into a van.
Several hours later, her campaign revealed she was diagnosed with pneumonia on Friday and advised to rest."
Your fave AP reseller

Right. She rather 'spend time with her family' than rake in that West Coast lucre! Sure she would! Just like Bubba wasn't renting out the Lincoln bedroom on a Motel 6 franchise!

[That's A Bingo!]

It's not like she's been doing stressful rallies, press conferences, or interviews. Her workload until today consisted of very light donor events and now she can't do that.

(Also: Bubba invented Airbnb.)

[Sevo]

(Also: Bubba invented Airbnb.)
And Gore invented self promotion. Or something.

[Playa Manhattan.]

Anyone want to make a quick $20?

I dare you to stare into one of these lights.

Tony? Buttplug? Tulpa?

[Sevo]

Not a good choice:
http://www.bing.com/images/sea.....&FORM=IGRE

[Playa Manhattan.]

Eh, it was topical. Lights at Ground Zero.

[Sevo]

Strange...
Took a Viking Danube cruise, stopped at Nuremberg, have been to MANY places of historical ill-repute.
Standing on that field, imagining those lights was.............
Disturbing.

[Playa Manhattan.]

My parents were just on a Viking Cruise. Had some issue with the river being to high. IDK, I use their slideshows as a chance to sleep.

[Sevo]

Dunno what to say about that.
We had a very good time; shipboard food was better than expected, shipboard 'entertainment' was ditto.
Shore tours were mixed as a result of the guides; they were often less informed of the history than anyone who had done some reading.
Take a horse-buggy tour of Vienna.
The Buda-Pest guide was pathetic; did you know Hungary's economy was the victim of every group who attacked AFTER the ones who identify as Hungarians arrived who knows when?
The ones before that were just camp dust.
And the US and the USSR had agreed to divide Eastern Europe so the US didn't help in '56, since the US was getting some advantage and (tin foil hats).
Overall, recommended.

[Playa Manhattan.]

I think they enjoyed themselves. It was something about the river being in flood stage so they couldn't get under a bridge. Cruise was cut short.

[__Warren__]

So it was a Tom Cruise?

[Sevo]

BTW, I lost the internet connection. Do you have info...

[Playa Manhattan.]

I turned my TV off at halftime. I have no further information right now.

[GILMORE?]

do not be afraid playa. look into the light. you will see that it was I who carried you when there was only one set of footprints in the sand.....

(assistant whispers in ear. checks notes).... oh, wow, sorry. that was actually .... well, gee, i see you own a Segway. Which i guess disqualifies you from heaven anyway so.... well, best of luck.

[Playa Manhattan.]

Statement from her "doctor":

"....She was put on antibiotics..."

Bullshit. Tell me which one, and give me the dosing schedule. Otherwise, you're a fucking liar.

[Sevo]

Posted above:
The person I know (mid '60s) who contracted pneumonia got direction to go to radiology NOW to see how her lungs looked. None of this 'take two aspirin....', and I'm sure that hogwash is raising concern with MDs and us 'older folks' all over the place...

[Playa Manhattan.]

It's complete bullshit. And at first, notice that they just said "heat exhaustion" until they realized it wouldn't fly.

I've had pneumonia several times, as well as dozens of ear infections. I'm an otherwise healthy person, but I have low antibodies for 2 types of common bacteria (that I know about so far.... getting the PPSV vaccine next month).

Acute infections aren't one of those "maybe I have it, maybe I don't" situations. It's fucking obvious. If someone her age were actually diagnosed with pneumonia on Friday, as her "doctor" claims, she'd be in bed or inpatient. She doesn't have pneumonia.

[GILMORE?]

He diagnosed Pneumonia on Friday, but didn't actually medicate her until sunday... *after* she passed out in public?

and then 2 hours later she was up and chipper and pretending to be A-OK?

Why does that not sound like 'pneumonia' related symptoms?

[Playa Manhattan.]

Because it's not.

Pneumonia makes it hard to properly oxygenate your blood. If she walked six blocks and then collapsed, yeah, maybe that's pneumonia. But she was just standing there.

[That's A Bingo!]

You just don't understand how strong Hillary is. She's been able to do campaign events in spite of pneumonia! She is medically able to be president.

That's the actual narrative on Twitter.

[Playa Manhattan.]

So now that she's cancelled her campaign schedule, does that make her even tougher?

[__Warren__]

She's strong enough to stand up to unfair expectations!

[Playa Manhattan.]

She just destroyed months of conspiracy theories!!!

[GILMORE?]

Pneumonia makes it hard to properly oxygenate your blood

you so fancy talkin. i never think further ahead than 'little lung sacs full of fluid'

[Ken Shultz]

"Why does that not sound like 'pneumonia' related symptoms?"

It's walking pneumonia. And that's not all she has.

She's also got corruption cooties.

Corruption cooties make it so you can't remember a god damn thing--when you're being questioned by the FBI.

Her doctor said so. What, don't you believe in science, you fucking misogynist?

[That's A Bingo!]

Walking pneumonia? Why'd she hug that kid on her way out of Chelsea's apartment? Walking pneumonia is contagious.

[Ken Shultz]

Well, obviously, you're a misogynist, too, then.

[__Warren__]

You get a great game out of Carson Palmer and two TDs from Larry Fitzgerald and still can't put enough other offense together to beat a Bradyless Pats team on your home field?

[__Warren__]

One way the Clinton campaign can fix this is by subtly playing up the fact that Hillary will be surrounded by the same team that brought the success of the Bill Clinton presidency.

That would mollify the worryworts and fence sitters. Maybe keep enough around to squeak by in the election.

[Sevo]

"One way the Clinton campaign can fix this is by subtly playing up the fact that Hillary will be surrounded by the same team that brought the success of the Bill Clinton presidency."

Except one of the 'surrounding people' was that miserable hag Hillary who tried to foist an "O-care" on us and was firmly batted down.

[JayU]

Fuck DeBlasio though.

[Playa Manhattan.]

So heroic. They have to hold her down to keep her from flying away!!

[__Warren__]

Well really they just need to hide the broom.

[teyafab]

until I looked at the check of $8597 , I didn't believe that...my... cousin was realey bringing home money part-time from there new laptop. . there brothers friend has been doing this for only 22 months and resently cleared the loans on there cottage and bourt Smart ForTwo . check ..
??????>> http://www.earnmax6.com/

[simplybe]

As my father said some 50 years ago when I was debating going into the army to fight in Vietnam that the rich send the sons of the poor to war so they can get richer. While they enjoy their wealth you get to enjoy a pine box. Get the point