Election 2016

"Voting Your Heart, Swinging an Election?": Nick Gillespie Talks Gary Johnson on KCRW

Did you know that libertarians are racists who hide behind criminal-justice reform, ending the drug war, lobbying for open borders, & non-interventionism?

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Earlier today, I was on one the best radio programs in the country—Warren Olney's To The Point on KCRW—talking about the role of third-party candidates in the 2016 election.

It's a lively and informative conversation. And it gets downright hilarious at the end when one of the guests, a former Bernie Sanders supporter who is now all in for Hillary Clinton, accuses libertarians and Gary Johnson supporters of being racists: "I think what we're seeing in the quote 'rise' of Gary Johnson," argues Melissa Byrne, "is mostly white men who lean toward being fairly racist are looking for a safe place and they're finding that in Gary Johnson." Because, well, you know that nothing is more racist that calling for criminal justice reform, an end to the drug war, opening up the borders to immigrants, and a stop to indiscriminate bombing of developing nations.

Here's the write-up for the show. Listen by clicking on the image or going here.

To The Point
KCRW

For millions of voters, Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton present an agonizing choice between the lesser of two evils. Libertarian Gary Johnson offers an alternative for fiscal conservatives who won't vote for Trump but can't stand Hillary. The Green Party's Jill Stein speaks to disappointed and angry supporters of Bernie Sanders. But third-party candidates always pose a moral quandary: can they be anything but spoilers? Do they take votes away from the least of the perceived "evils" and help to elect the worst? We look at this year's competition for the Republicans and the Democrats.

Guests:
Brian Ertz, environmental attorney (@ertzbe)
Josh Eidelson, Bloomberg BusinessWeek (@josheidelson)
Melissa Byrne, Bernie Sanders campaign (@mcbyrne)
Patrick Murray, Monmouth Polling Institute (@PollsterPatrick)
Nick Gillespie, Reason.com and Reason TV (@nickgillespie)

NEXT: Six Weeks Later, L.A. Sheriff's Department Admits They Killed an Innocent Man in Nighttime SWAT Raid

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  1. Libertarians are homosexual-loving, Messican-loving racists!

    1. Except for all the “libertarians” who want to keep out the illegals and are really afraid they’ll be forced to bake cakes for gay weddings.

      1. Yeah, cause it’s real ‘libertarian’ to force people to violate conscience and creating a ‘protected class’ status for a certain contract (gay marriage), but not any other contract (which is beyond bizarre).

        Seeming ‘tolerant’ of cool groups (gays) at the expense of tolerating un-cool groups (the religious) is so important to regressives who pose as libertarians in order to seem edgy. Let them eat homocake.

        1. I’m totally against forcing Christians to bake cakes for gays. It’s just not an issue of such overiding importance to me that I’m willing to toss out all of the economic liberties such as free trade and property rights by voting for Donald “eminent domain” Trump.

          1. False dilemma

            1. Really? You have a choice between (a) Gary Johnson, who is excellent on limited government and economic liberties, but soft on gay cake or (b) Donald Trump, who is horrible on economic liberties, but promises to make it okay to be a bigot again. If you pick Donald Trump what does that say about you?

              1. It seems you haven’t realized you’ve just made precisely the same argument that the Team Red and Team Blue cheerleaders make all the time. You have more than 2, even more than 3 choices.

                I’ll vote for Johnson, like I did last time, but don’t tell me I have no other choices.

        2. The”not any other contract” bit is a bit ridiculous. Pretty sure you’ll also get shut down pretty quick if your shop sells wedding cakes, but only for gay marriages(although maybe they’d just wait the couple days it takes for you to go out of business), or, more to the point, only if it’s not a black marriage.

      2. I don’t have any concern about being forced to bake a cake for anyone.

        Of course, this is because my culinary abilities do not exceed the ability to make a sammich. Anyone wanting me to bake a cake would be very disappointed, regardless of their situation.

        1. My position was always that the Christian bakers should substitute salt for sugar, say oops and refund the gay money.

          1. In all of these theoretical culture war/forced labor scenarios is there still the possibility for setting the price of the good or service any where you want? I am just curious and I don’t think I have heard a direct answer on this point. I have never heard of or personally had an experience where this is not the case to some degree. The price of anything offered on the market for trade is always a combination of many factors such scarcity, difficulty, convenience and of course your relationship or opinion of the other party and too many other factors to even list. These are just the facts of life. My kind but poor (monetarily at least) 93 year old Great-Aunt Bertrude is probably going to get a different price for just about anything she may want from me than some random person I just met 10 minutes ago and have no opinion about. And they in turn will very likely get a better price than someone who I do know but have an extremely negative opinion of. There is probably a price break point for most people where you could justify and profit from dealing with the biggest asshole in the country. Say, $10,000 or so ought to get you any damn kind of cake you want in this country.

        2. Seriously? You’re incapable of following the directions on the back of a Betty Crocker box? It’s like add eggs and oil, stir, pour into pan, bake.

  2. It’s like the stereotype of a Tourette’s patient – they just can’t stop saying “racist!”

    You’d think by this time it would just be background noise.

    1. (I don’t know any *actual* Tourette’s patients, which is why I invoked the stereotype)

      1. You anti-tourettite

  3. I can sor tof understand why that woman feels that way. After all, Rockefeller Republicans, being progressives (albeit right-wingy ones), have a racist history. And when a party fields Rockefeller republicans as their candidates, it”s understandable that people unfamiliar with the party’s rank and file assume that the rank and file are closet racists.

    1. Hillary Clinton is a Rockefeller Republican and yet…

      1. That’s true…. And my MIL lost a gasket when I pointed that out.

        1. Didn’t Clinton support Goldwater in 64? That doesn’t scream “Rockefeller Republican.”

          1. That was when she was 16. Her views since have “evolved.”

            1. I’m not arguing she’s a Goldwaterite currently. I’m just saying that while she was previously a Republican, I don’t think she was a Rockefeller Republican.

            2. Her cankles have evolved into a completely separate life form.

    2. Isnt Johnson more of a Goldwater republican?

        1. Johnson’s not a clear match with Goldwater (who was more ideologically focused and dogmatic, and also would have differences on foreign policy) but he isn’t a Rockefeller Republican either.

          1. Johnson and Goldwater are both creatures of the West – the Southwest, in particular. Johnson is more Santa Fe-artist-colony Southwest, while Goldwater was six-shooter-carrying cowboy-hat Southwest.

            “Rockefeller” anything is not really a thing in the West. Except for Stanford, which is like a little warp in the space-time continuum that makes a little piece of New England manifest in the Bay Area.

            Weld is absolutely a “Rockefeller Republican.”

            1. Didn’t Weld furlough 8,000 government employees on his first day in office or something like that? That is not something a Rockefeller Republican would do. I understand giving Weld shit for guns and affirmative action, which he deserves. But his fiscal record since pretty good.

              1. I think Weld is similar to the Rockefeller Republicans, but more fiscally conservative. For all the shit Weld gets from the right (and much of it is deserved), he’d get run out of the Democratic Party in 2 seconds for his views on fiscal/economic issues.

      1. “Isn’t Johnson more of a Goldwater republican?”

        Lets see:

        “I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue.” – Barry Goldwater

        Nope

        1. Didn’t Goldwater lose because he wanted to nuke the Viet Cong? Not very libertarian.

          By the way, Goldwater didn’t pen those words. If I remember correctly, it was Karl Hess, who was his speechwriter and a true libertarian.

          1. “…nuke the Viet Cong.”

            Yeah, only in the imagination of Bill Moyers, and every Dem partisan since then who imagines grandmas pushed off cliffs, children made to starve, and black people put back in chains.

          2. Didn’t Goldwater lose because he wanted to nuke the Viet Cong? Not very libertarian.

            No, he lost because that scumbag, Pierre Salinger, smeared him with that shit. It was one of the most effective negative campaign ads of all time.

            -jcr

      2. Well, I don’t think we’ll see Johnson opposing the CRA on the basis of public accommodation laws being a violation of the right of association. You might be thinking of Rand Paul.

        1. Paul has his differences with Goldwater too, particularly on foreign policy and some social issues (such as abortion, as Goldwater was pro-choice).

          1. Everyone was pro-choice in the 60s. The pro-life movement did not get underway until the segregationists figured out they needed a moral superiority issue to motivate the evangelicals to the voting booth.

            1. Pro-life really didn’t get started until Roe v Wade in 1973. No reason to oppose an activity which was illegal in the vast majority of the US.

    3. I don’t think a Rockefeller Republican would campaign on reforming Social Security and Medicare.

    4. We’re just looking for someone to protect us from superpredators. Being capitalists, we hope they can be reformed and one day bring us our coffee.

  4. “I think what we’re seeing in the quote ‘rise’ of Gary Johnson,” argues Melissa Byrne, “is mostly white men who lean toward being fairly racist are looking for a safe place and they’re finding that in Gary Johnson.”

    Idiotic word salad rambling.

    1. I see she lives in a bubble and has never encountered that one contingent of Trumpkins.

    2. the quote ‘rise’ of Gary Johnson,” argues Melissa Byrne, “is mostly white men who lean toward being fairly racist

      And then she want on in painful detail about the survey data that supports this conclusion.

      Right?

    3. I thought all the racist white men were voting Trump this year. Did you guys have a meeting and not invite me?

      1. We do that all the time, but that has nothing to do with racism.

        1. I never did feel quite welcome at the racist white man club meetings. Now I know why. Bastards.

  5. So, Byrne was Feelin’ The Bern?

    1. Either that, or she just assumed Johnson must be rigid in his views.

      I hope she’s prompted to investigate his views some more. Unless she’s completely retarded, she may yet come around to Johnson.

  6. Melissa Byrne switches from Bernie to Hillary because she’s a social media whore with no integrity. Calling libertarians racists is what you do when you’re too retarded to come up with an actual argument. How do all these clueless people get anyone to put them on the radio or on TV?

    1. Blind leading the blind?

    2. It is as if that accusations of racism is all they have.

    3. Nice rack or decent speaking voice.

  7. I think this guy says it better than I ever could.

    https://reason.com/blog/2016/08/08/big-boi

  8. Hey, guys, did you know that Darrell Castle is the Constitution Party candidate for President?

    “”Gary and Jill are a lot closer to the mainstream than I am,” [Castle] says, though he does hope to “shame” CNN into providing him an hourlong “town hall” event, as it has offered the two better-known third-party candidates. “People who say they want to limit government aren’t going to get mainstream press,” he shrugs.

    “Still, Castle says he’s been picking up support not only from Cruz supporters but from anti-abortions backers of Austin Petersen, runner-up for the Libertarian nomination….”

    1. Outlawing pornography seems worse to me than public accommodation laws. Let’s see what Veronica Zemanova has to say…

      1. Let me guess, you’ll be in your bunk.

        1. Nah, that was before I jumped on Reason.

          1. “You can have my porn when you pry it from my sticky hands.”

            1. Basically, by calling for more obscenity prosecutions while saying juries should be told they can nullify, the Constitution Party is providing both the poison and the remedy.

    2. Yeah, I think Castle is okay. Coming from the perspective of a person who lined up more with Austin Peterson than Johnson, I might vaguely consider voting for Castle if he and Johnson already had equal support. He’s slightly more libertarian than the median Constitution Party politician; if he wasn’t so Trumpian on Mexicans/Muslims he’d be an interesting candidate.

  9. Haven’t racists found a safe space already with Trump? I mean, David “Effing” Duke endorsed him.

    1. Someone would like a word with you

      http://www.anncoulter.com/colu…..#read_more

      1. She has already sacrificed her credibility on the altar of Trump quite some time ago. Though, having to play apologist to the parade of fascist, narcissistic idiocy that spills from his mouth and social media every day will do that to you.

        But, as long as Trump puts up a wall to keep out the brown hordes of mexico, I suppose she considers it a price worth paying.

        1. You’re very smart and have many original thoughts.

          1. Sorry it took me so long to reply to this, I was too busy running through my office hallways offering high-fives and pumping my fist in the air from your adulation.

        2. Ann Coulter is the troll Shreek wishes he could be.

          1. I thought Anne Coulter was Bo

          2. Coulter is a terrible troll. Milo is a much better troll.

            1. Definitely. Milo is far more entertaining.

    2. I guess election season brings out trollish behavior.

      Bored.

      Give me something new. Maybe something about gamboling hither and yon? or even an entertaining conspiracy theory?

      Warmed over hate speech I get enough of elsewhere.

  10. ne of the guests, a former Bernie Sanders supporter who is now all in for Hillary Clinton, accuses libertarians and Gary Johnson supporters of being racists: “I think what we’re seeing in the quote ‘rise’ of Gary Johnson,” argues Melissa Byrne, “is mostly white men who lean toward being fairly racist are looking for a safe place and they’re finding that in Gary Johnson.”

    It is known.

  11. “”environmental attorney””

    Your honor, i call Carbon Dioxide to the stand.

    1. That job title says to me, “Crony motherfucker who does make-work created by the EPA and democratic Green-Energy programs/regulation, suing the shit out of people made into criminals by new legislation, etc.”

  12. Warren Olney’s not bad. heard him last night with some old man talking about intrigue in the Japanese court. Seriously. I think Olney was getting impatient because… fuck, get to the point.

  13. Hey, Melissa!

    #NotYourShield

  14. And it gets downright hilarious at the end when one of the guests, a former Bernie Sanders supporter who is now all in for Hillary Clinton, accuses libertarians and Gary Johnson supporters of being racists: “I think what we’re seeing in the quote ‘rise’ of Gary Johnson,” argues Melissa Byrne, “is mostly white men who lean toward being fairly racist are looking for a safe place and they’re finding that in Gary Johnson.”

    I think that it’s always a helpful reminder that as a libertarian, progressives will always pull the racist card. So saying stuff like, “It’s true, slavery was bad […]” will never do you any good.

    1. The reason they are able to do that is that we, libertarians, have tolerated the presence of racists in our midst in a misguided attempt at an alliance. (I’m talking about you, Lew Rockwell.)

      The whole Trump phenomenon marks the end of that little experiment, thankfully.

      1. Isn’t Lew Rockwell supportive of Trump or something like that?

        1. He likes him for wrecking the GOP and being against the invade/invite the world stuff, but thinks he’s pretty awful otherwise. At least that’s what I got from the Tom Woods post-debate podcasts.

          1. Nah, Rockwell is all in for Trump. Most of the stuff on LRC is quite favorable to Trump. Walter Block even started a Libertarians for Trump group and LRC published it.

            1. Walter Block even started a Libertarians for Trump group and LRC published it.

              That’s disingenuous bullshit.

      2. The whole Trump phenomenon marks the end of that little experiment, thankfully.

        I’m not as sanguine as you about that.

      3. Considering their candidate is polling at least 5 times better than yours is, I should think that it would.

        1. The tent remains big enough to hold all 3 rings of the circus.

      4. Except Gary Johnson has nothing to do with that. I have friends who are democrats, I don’t accuse them of racism because the KKK was traditionally democratic. But I get accused of racism because of Lew Rockwell. Kay.

        1. Don’t forget that Democrat hero FDR was the one who put forth an executive order for the internment of American citizens based solely on their race.

          And, like you, I don’t accuse modern-day Democrat voters of being racist just because of this fact, but I do like to throw it back in their faces when they accuse non-Democrats of being closet klansmen.

      5. The reason they are able to do that is that we, libertarians, have tolerated the presence of racists in our midst in a misguided attempt at an alliance. (I’m talking about you, Lew Rockwell.)

        Honestly. The reason they do that is because it works and they get away with it.

        Facts don’t matter, especially if they’re the wrong facts. This might be why we keep having all of this bad luck as a country. It’s a thought, anyway.

        And this is just the wrong place to call for greater intolerance of intolerance. That’s been tried. While the motivations are readily apparent, bless everyone’s little cotton socks, I say after a couple of decades of failure and ever-ratcheting restrictions on humans, said restrictions causing measurable pain and harm, that we vote Chavez out of office stop doing all that stuff that doesn’t work on the hopes it suddenly starts working tomorrow.

    2. So saying stuff like, “It’s true, slavery was bad […]” will never do you any good.

      Robby hit hardest.

    3. I think that it’s always a helpful reminder that as a libertarian, progressives will always pull the racist card.

      That is ALL they do — even among THEMSELVES.

      Deep, deep projection.

  15. “See, it’s a smokescreen because you guys are distracting us from the real issue, which is one of race.”

    Yeah, but whenever anybody raises racial issues realistically, that is racist.

  16. Quit knob-gobbling the Debate Commission.

    Johnson has already gotten his Town Hall. He and some other 3rd party candidates can try and organize a debate and invite the major-party people or their proxies.

    1. I can’t figure out why we have multiple ‘third-parties’.

      Shouldn’t one of them be the third-party, the next fourth, then fifth, etc?

      1. The Millennial Party!

        1. Oh yeah!

          They are the ones who want student loan forgiveness, federally mandated safe spaces on every corner, and a law that requires their moms to always do their laundry promptly and deliver it to their basements neatly folded.

  17. And if anyone really wants to listen to the person telling nick how racist we all are…

    go to @41m where she takes a question about responding to Nick’s point about ‘needing more parties’….

    …and immediately launches into a criticism of his use of “31 flavors of astroglide”-analogy because UGH MEN SO SEXIST… and then transitions into giving a PR speech about how Democrats are the best and everyone else is teh sux

    she basically had a list of things she wanted to say, and when given the opportunity to talk, just ran through them until she was cut off for lack of time.

    Nick gets a few shots in retort

  18. What I find funny about Byrne’s comments is that during the primaries, a lot of Clinton supporters routinely accused Sanders supporters of being racist, sexist white males who hated Hillary cause she’s a woman and don’t care about minorities.

    1. So what you’re saying is, “it works”

    2. Everyone just needs to check their privilege and vote Hillary supreme ruler for life

  19. I wonder if there are any right-wing radio shows? Maybe Reason staff can appear on such a show.

    1. But…what would happen to their cocktail parties were such a thing to occur?

      Also, it seems that agreeing on the social issues is more important to many Libertarians than agreeing on fiscal issues.

    2. Nick and Matt go all over the place. Nick has even been on the utterly loathsome Jazz Shaw’s radio program or podcast.

      But yes, like you I think they should seek out the great Bill Donahue and speak with him somewhere.

      1. It’s possible he was on a right-wing show and I missed it, if so I’m really sorry.

      2. I think he should try to get on Fash the Nation. Nothing I love as much as a good food fight!

        1. There’s even a Reason connection …

    3. Reason people are on Buck Sexton’s show every so often. Don’t know about others.

      1. I didn’t know that. Does it get linked on H&R? That’s my source of info on Reason activities.

        1. Not that I know of. I just saw on the Soundcloud page that Fisher and Welch were on for ~15min segments recently.

    4. Well, there was Jerry Doyle, but he is dead now.

    5. I don’t know if Napolitano is considered “Reason staff”, but he goes on Alex Jones’ show. Not that Jones is right wing. I don’t know exactly what to call Jones, other than insane.

  20. Did you know that libertarians are racists who hide behind criminal-justice reform, ending the drug war, lobbying for open borders, & non-interventionism?

    …Are we not?

    1. She left out “Plutocratic exploiters of orphan labor and frequent procurers of underage prostitutes”

      And Trumptards

    2. I’m still waiting on the latest authoritative decree on whether Slavs are “The Whites*” or not. Last official report we had was from 1945 (“Not, but if you would like to wear this fancy cammo uniform…”), and since then, it looked like “Yes” but then it turned out Brexit was about being anti-Polish, so that sounds like “Not” again.

      *The Whites, of course, being only creatures capable of racism

      1. How can a people whose name the term “slave” derives from possibly be “White”?

        1. A.) If they fought the dirty Bolshies in the Russian Civil War.

  21. Still freaking out about Ralph Nader.

    1. To adapt some remarks from William Faulkner:

      For every proggy man forty years old, not once but whenever he wants it, there is the instant when it’s still not yet two o’clock on that November afternoon in 2000, the lawyers are in position behind the bar, the ballots are laid and ready and the chads are ready to be punched and Al Gore himself with his long oiled ringlets and his hat in one hand probably and his sword in the other looking up the hill waiting for the Supreme Court to give the word and it’s all in the balance, it hasn’t happened yet, it hasn’t even begun yet, it not only hasn’t begun yet but there is still time for it not to begin

      1. Shes right = You’re all Racists, making references to confederates and stuff.

  22. Melissa Byrne ?@mcbyrne 3h3 hours ago

    I love getting under the skin of libertarians.

    Melissa Byrne ?@mcbyrne 3h3 hours ago

    So white men really hate it when you call out their sexism and racism. But it’s so much fun!

    So, like yeah, like take that, white men.

    1. So she’s a professional troll.

      I’m convinced of the following:

      People who prefer Facebook commenting are some of the dumbest people on the planet.

      Twitter is a platform for trolls.

      YouTube commenters are evil.

      If all the YouTube commenters suddenly died tomorrow, we might have peace and harmony in this country. I’m not saying that YouTube commenters are causing the evil in this country with their comments. I’m saying that they’re disproportionately and absolutely the country’s most horrible people.

      1. No, YouTube commenters are morons. Facebook commenters are fools. Alternet and DU commenters are evil.

      2. Twitter is the worst. Twitter has some of the dumbest and angry people on earth. It’s just a cesspool of idiocy. It so needs to die

        1. I’ll raise you tumblr for dumbest and angriest people on Earth.

    2. “I love getting under the skin of libertarians.”

      I had forgotten her name and who she was 5 minutes after I commented about her.

  23. +1 Warren Olney.

    Guy’s been doing legitimate, intellectually honest, and interesting radio for as long as I can remember–and he’s doing it on a progressive flagship.

    . . . albeit not as bad of as KPCC, on the other hand, who would march libertarians up against the wall if they could.

    Olney is like an honest liberal who escaped the invasion of the progressive body snatchers by hiding in plain sight.

  24. Of course libertarians are racist! We don’t recognize that inferior people need special treatment! That’s racist!

    1. Well, technically, you know, it IS racist to consider people of other races “inferior”, you know.

      1. You don’t understand. Certain people are inferior. That’s why they need a helping white hand. Preferably a progressive one. They know best.

        If you don’t see them as inferior and in need of help funded by coercion, then you are immoral.

        Worse than that, you are intolerant. And tolerant people don’t tolerate intolerant libertarians. Because the more intolerant you are of people who disagree with you, the more tolerant you are.

        1. Exactly. I’ve spent an entire lifetime listening to liberals (now called progressives) tell me how black people just aren’t as smart as us, so need set-asides.

          1. I thought blacks were just the same as whites, but do worse on testing because all the questions are about regattas and yachts.

            1. Q: Your yacht is travelling at 12 nautical mph towards St. Lucia from Biscayne Bay. How long will it take to arrive?

              A: 5 bottles of champagne, 2 Cuban cigars, 1 change of sweater vests, 2 hearty laughs with Muffy, and 1 satellite phone call to berate your accountant.

              1. ah, that takes me back to the time I took the SAT…

                1. Blacks missed that question because “berate” is not part of their vocabulary.

                  Fusionist missed the question about what Margaret would do if Michael was pressuring her into sex.

                  1. Don’t be silly.

                    If you ask LaQuixcia when she’ll be ready to go, she’ll tell you “Ah berate out.”

                    Racist!

    2. Libertarians are disproportionately white men, and white men are racists. We know they’re racists because they’re white.

      White men are always going around driving their white men cars, eating their white men food, working their white men jobs, saying their white men shit, thinking their white men thoughts.

      Goddamn crackers are stupid as shit, take drugs, molest children, doing their racist thing–and they can’t help it. It’s because they’re white-ass crackers!

      I don’t want any crackers living near me. Not in my neighborhood. They’re too racist! Someday, we’ll rise up and shoot their white asses for the crime of being white in public.

      And once they’re all dead, the world will be a better place without their honky-ass racism.

      P.S. Cracker.

      1. But what if I prefer black men food and molesting adult women? Can I still be a cracker?

        1. No.

          Now stand with me over here.

          1. Ok, but there damn well better be women, bbq, fried chicken, collard greens, and watermelon over here.

              1. I’m pretty sure I could out party most of those dudes but I do need to learn to play dominoes. I have some, I just need to take 5 minutes and figure it out.

            1. I’m straight up alergic to watermelon. Does that make me the whitest whitey since white came to Whitetown?

              1. I don’t know.

                What are your thoughts on the Dave Matthews Band?

                1. *shudders*

                2. What are your thoughts on the Dave Matthews Band?

                  Not a fan.

                3. I don’t know, what would you say?

                  1. Don’t bite the mailman.

                    Fuck all you Dave Matthews Band haters.

                    1. Nate’s marching….

                    2. If you can’t get down to DMB, and I can take Dave or leave him, get into bluegrass, Old-Time, or Irish, Scottish and other Celtic roots music. None more white. Stay away from Rhiannon Giddins and the Carolina Chocolate Drops, Afro Celt Sound System and Thin Lizzy, though.

                      I’m so white, my “summer tan” is an illusion caused by my freckles merging.

                      Kevin R

  25. Well, this election season has pretty well exposed that there are a fair number of people walking around calling themselves “libertarians” who really are the closet racists that some progressives perceive them to be.

    The problem with her statement is that those people AREN’T voting for Gary Johnson this year. They are voting for Donald Trump. And hanging out on the Reason message boards shilling for Trump.

    Gary Johnson is the person the non-racist libertarians are voting for.

    And it’s great because the mask has gotten torn off and now maybe that racist element will be purged. We’ll emerge with a better, more centrist, libertarian movement that can appeal to people across the political spectrum, instead of a libertarianism that is of the fringe right. They can go off and form their militia groups and wank off to their guns and confederate flags, and talk about how they should have the right to refuse to serve black people.
    And the rest of us can actually work on building a movement that is politically viable.

    1. As a libertarian I think it is perfectly fine if someone doesn’t want to server black people. As long as they can legally make it known so I can avoid their place of business.

      1. *serve*

      2. Yes, but that doesn’t make them *libertarian*.

        1. Well the next time someone says something racist, Hazel, you be sure to flag it so you can refer people to it in the future.

          If you have any handy examples right now, feel free to share them. I’d be interested in seeing your list of “Racist commenters on H&R”

          1. Have you ever noticed how PapayaSF is always quick to point out that the latest unarmed black person to get shot by the police was an idiot who did something to deserve it?

            You’ve never noticed that, have you?

            1. I point it out when it’s true. E.g. Michael Brown was an idiot who fought with police. Eric Garner was an idiot who fought with police.

              Your error, Hazel, is to think that pointing out that someone who contributes to their own fate (to whatever degree) is that same thing as “deserving it.” If you leave your new convertible running with the keys in it at the downtown liquor store on Saturday at midnight, you have contributed to your fate, without “deserving it.”

              Michael Brown “deserved it.” Garner didn’t “deserve it,” but he contributed to his own fate by being overweight and then fighting with police, which led to his death.

              It is indeed idiotic to fight with police: they are armed and dangerous and sometimes use excessive force, as is endlessly pointed out around here. There’s nothing “racist” about saying that. Too bad you’re such a blind ideologue that you can’t see that.

              1. Yeah, you also hate immigrants, and you’re shilling for Trump, so it’s hardly the only point on which your opinions conspicuously align with those of bigots.

                1. More nuanced thought and perception from Hazel.

                  I find it depressing that ideologues so often think in absolute terms. Don’t want tens of millions of illegals? Then you must “hate immigrants.” Think Trump has some good points, and that Hillary is worse for liberty? Then I’m “shilling.”

                  “Politics is the mind-killer.”

        2. and btw = the person called “Nativist, Racist & Xenophobe”?

          You don’t need to flag them. its in their name.

          1. Like most hipsters, Hazel hasn’t figured out that today’s taboos are tomorrow’s fashion statements. Give her six months and she’ll be claiming to be the *original* H&R racist poster.

            1. Yeah, racism is just going to come back in style. Any day now.
              You’ll be glad you were into it before it was cool.

    2. more centrist, libertarian movement

      wut

    3. and now maybe that racist element will be purged

      I think the preferred wording is ‘cleanse.’

      1. Whichever. Just as long as they stop calling themselves libertarians for good.
        I’m tired of them tainting the reputation of libertarianism.

        1. Because nothing helps the brand like class snobbery and progressive virtue signaling.

          1. Yes, John, when you’re trying to build a “brand” it’s generally a good idea not to deliberately associate it with things that are broadly despised and looked down upon in society. Branding is usually about associating your product with good things that are liked and not bad things that are hated and reviled.
            Sheesh, you ARE stupid.

    4. Is Lew Rockwell a libertarian by your estimation, Hazel?

      1. Lew Rockwell is the libertarian who is primarily responsible for allowing all sorts of racists to enter the movement and run around masquerading as libertarians. He may have done it for strategic reasons. But those reasons have turned out to be really, really stupid and a mistake.

        1. Same thing happened in Philadelphia in 1776.

          1. You mean you think that allying with racists is a winning political strategy in 2016, just like in the Revolutionary War?

            Because there’s so many racists, and they’re so powerful, and we can’t win without them?

            1. No. I was more making a joke about slave owners writing the US constitution. I’m certainly not an expert on Lew Rockwell but is it fair to say he allied with racists? I’ve seen some of the newsletters and the quantity of racist material was so small that it must have taken quite an effort to find them given how many were published and some of what was brought out was not horribly over the top given some of the racial tension and ignorance of that time, although certainly some of it was. I think there is plenty of “racist” material written by pundits from every party that is not always intentional. Does that make it better, I don’t know, but I wouldn’t necessarily trash an entire group for some limited writings during a period were there was a lot of irrationality going on. If there’s more the story then fine, I’m certainly not trying to play apologist. I just didn’t see those newsletters in their entirety as representing some racist outlook.

              1. In the latter part of his life Rothbard courted far-right, conservative, and populist groups – definitely some racists in there – probably the best alliance libertarianism could ever find.

                1. Rothbard was also a member of the neo-Nazi League of the South.

                  1. “Rothbard was also a member of the neo-Nazi League of the South.”

                    Shows how serious that Jew was about libertarianism.

                    1. It’s possible these SPLC labels aren’t super accurate.

                    2. “It’s possible these SPLC labels aren’t super accurate.”

                      Whoa, let’s not say crazy things here.

                2. In the latter part of his life Rothbard courted far-right, conservative, and populist groups – definitely some racists in there – probably the best alliance libertarianism could ever find.

                  Um, no.
                  That was a terrible mistake, probably set the movement back by a generation.

          2. David Letterman used to joke, before he lost his sense of humor, that his audience was almost entirely white.

      2. Thanks for answering. I am not a Lew Rockwell fan myself. Not for the racism, but because it is so repetitiive.

    5. “Well, this election season has pretty well exposed that there are a fair number of people walking around calling themselves “libertarians” who really are the closet racists that some progressives perceive them to be.”

      Does the TDS monster have Hazel, too?

      1. Nah. She’s being stupid about libertarians, not Trump. I’d call it LDS but, you know, Mormons.

        1. LDS is not to be confused with LSD, although they are both pretty trippy.

      2. She was one of its first victims.

    6. I’m kind of interested to hear what people think of as racists these days.

      I remember when Obama was going around campaigning on the phrase, “Marriage is between a man and a woman”. Back then, libertarians were smeared for being homophobes, too–even if we didn’t want the government to discriminate against gays and supported gay marriage.

      What does it mean that a libertarian supports racism in 2016?

      That we want government discrimination?

      That we use racial slurs?

      Is someone who opposes any form of government discrimination based on race still a racist if he uses racial slurs?

      What is racism in 2016?

      Are we talking about government discrimination, or are we talking about thought crime?

      1. Opposition to Affirmative Action.

      2. We’re talking about whether people whose only interests in liberty are in the right to own guns, wave confederate flags, and discriminate against blacks, gays, and Mexicans qualifies as a libertarian in any meaningful way.

        We’re talking about whether it’s helpful to libertarianism as a movement to have those people going around calling themselves libertarians.

        1. Unfortunately, libertarians by nature wind up defending the least popular elements of society, and we tend to get stained by the awfulness of the intellectual minorities that take shelter under our tolerance for pluralism.

          1. I don’t defend child molesters and arsonists. I defend my rights when people try to violate them.

            When child molesters and arsonists invoke their Fifth Amendment rights, it isn’t the freaks I’m standing up for.

            It’s my Fifth Amendment rights.

            Same thing with the First Amendment. Just because I’ve kicked a Nazi or two in the ass for being Nazis and saying Nazi shit, that doesn’t mean I want the government violating the First Amendment

            It should be noted, it isn’t even really their First Amendment rights I’m standing for.

            It’s my First Amendment rights that I care about–that’s why I don’t want the government violating the First Amendment.

            1. ^sez the Hun, the German.

            2. My point is, if you’re going to spend time defending the Free Speech rights of Nazis, it behooves you to be very, very, clear that you are not defending Naziism.

              I know that in a perfect world that wouldn’t be necessary. You shouldn’t *have to* point out that you aren’t a Nazi and you don’t support Naziism. But the reality is, the world is populated by cynical people who will try to twist any statement you make into a weapon against you. Case in point: Rand Paul and the CRA.

              So, if you don’t want to get labeled a racist and a Nazi sympathizer, you attach, in BIG BOLD LETTERS, the “I am not a Nazi, I hate Nazi’s” sign to every statement you make defending the Free Speech rights of Nazis.

          2. Yeah, this is true. But defending the rights of racists doesn’t mean we welcome them and let them walk around telling everyone that libertarianism is all about making it legal to discriminate against black people.

        2. Have you met any of these libertarians who want to discriminate against blacks, gays, and Mexicans, or is this just something you know in your heart.

          Even those libertarians who didn’t support gay marriage wanted the government out of the marriage business completely. I wouldn’t say most of them wanted the government to discriminate against gays.

          I’d go into some of the other items on that list, but I’d rather focus on the larger point: Is the racism you want to see purged from the libertarian movement about those who want the government to discriminate, or are you talking about something more abstract?

          Racist speech, association, and, yes, racist thoughts–are and should be–protected freedoms. The First Amendment doesn’t just protected smart speech and smart religions; it protects stupid speech and stupid beliefs, too.

          I’m all for criticizing stupidity, and racism is certainly stupid, but if you think the government has any business policing what people say or believe–and that this should be part of the Libertarian Platform somehow? Then you’re starting to lose it, Hazel.

          1. It is racism to be “not a democrat”. I know this because the democrat party boasts 95% of the african-american vote.

            Ipso-facto, not democrat == racist.

            The same can be said for being homophobic. Not democrat == evil.

            C’mon people. That shit ain’t new.

            Hillary Clinton is a woman, you sexist bastards! A woman!

            Not Democrat == misogynist. And evil.

            No, you don’t deserve to be heard. So stop trying to tell us about your racist, sexist, homophobic ways. This is our time! Stop hating and learn to love team blue. Win the victory over yourself. One believes things because one has been conditioned to believe them. George Huxley warned us about you people….

          2. Ken, defending the rights of racists to be racist is not the same as saying that racism is libertarian. Or, more accurately, allowing racists to define themselves as libertarians and then spread a false version of “libertarianism” that is tainted by racism.

            That is what has happened and it is WHY people like Jill Stein can say things like that libertarianism is made up of “mostly white men who lean toward being fairly racist are looking for a safe place”.

            More importantly, economic freedoms are primary. Libertarianism isn’t a movement about gun rights and anti-discrimination laws. It’s a movement about economic liberty. Capitalism vs. socialism. If all libertarianism is about is the right to own guns and hate black people and gay and Mexicans, then it’s a dead movement. And it’s pretty clear that there are SOME people for whom those economic liberties aren’t important. Or they wouldn’t be voting for Donald Trump.

        3. That’s right, we can’t have people going around espousing freedom of association in the libertarian movement. Much less the right to self defense, or to display symbols deemed to be overly triggering.

          Apparently, thinking people shouldn’t be put in jail for the thoughtcrime of racism means you must be racist too.

          1. If those same people don’t give a shit about property rights, or free trade, or economic liberty, then fuck them. Yes, they are not welcome. If all you give a shit about is the right to be racist, and you’re willing to abandon libertarian principles on economics the second a racist statist like Trump comes along, then fuck you.

        4. So people can be interested in Liberty just so long they are interested in doing things you approve.

          That word Liberty Hazel, I don’t think it means what you think it does.

          1. If people don’t care about economic liberty, then they aren’t real libertarians. “Liberty” is about a lot more than having the right to be a racist homophobic douchbag.

      3. Is person white?
        Yes –> Racist.
        No –> Does the person support Technocratic Absolutism?
        …..No –> Racist.
        …..Yes –> Does the person hate people solely on account of their race?
        ……….Yes –> Not racist
        ……….No –> Not racist

    7. “They can go off and form their militia groups and wank off to their guns and confederate flags, and talk about how they should have the right to refuse to serve black people.
      And the rest of us can actually work on building a movement that is politically viable.”

      Have reason.com libertarians given up on the political viability of guns or just wanking off to them?

      1. Hazel seems to think that if everyone would just think and act exactly like she tells them to act, we could be free.

    8. And the rest of us can actually work on building a movement that is politically viable.

      I think you already have one.

  26. They actually let Nick Gillespie get in a few whacks against Byrne, specifically because he’d been attacked and it was only fair to let him respond.

    Gillespie: “I wouldn’t bring up racism if I were you, Ms. Hillary supporter!” (loose paraphrase)

    1. What did Nick mean with that?

      1. It’s a loose paraphrase, more specifically, he cited Hillary’s role in the drug war and the actual wars, killing and locking up black and brown people. He said the drug war was racist.

        1. That seems like a good point to make. I remember seeing Nick on the Bill Maher show one time with two others Dems, and he seemed to be able to think on his feet really well.

          1. He also made a pitch for what he said were the anti-racist stances of the LP – eg, anti drug war, pro immigration.

            He said the racist thing was, IIRC, either the most ridiculous thing he’d ever heard or one of the more ridiculous things.

            1. He didn’t actually say “the pot calling the kettle black,” but that would be a funny summary.

  27. As a side note, I’d like to point out that Lew Rockwell probably did more to deep six Ron Paul’s political prospects than any other human being alive. (*ahem* newsletters *ahem*)

    With friends like these ….

    1. More than the guy who wrote them and the guy whose name they were published under?

      1. What makes you think Lew Rockwell didn’t write Ron Paul’s newsletters?

  28. “Voting Your Heart, Swinging an Election?”

    Swinging Johnson

    1. That’s “Big Swinging Johnson”, if you don’t mind….

    2. Finally! I was wading through the comments to see if anybody had posted that, because otherwise I was going to post it, because it needed to be posted.
      Thank God, now I can smoke a bowl and keep sipping my whiskey. And yes, whiskey is to be sipped; only heathens, cowboys, and high schoolers shoot whiskey. (And high school heathen cowboys)

  29. For those dying to know the answer to this morning’s Spot the Not:

    Spot the Not: Wesley Clark

    1. I like Hilary Clinton. I think she’s – she’s a fantastic leader.

    2. I think that President Obama has the strongest record with veterans among any president in my lifetime.

    3. Five-year-olds have an uncanny way of getting into your psyche, your self-esteem.

    4. When Bill Clinton ran in ’92, and I listened to him, and I had of course known of his record from Arkansas, I found him extraordinarily inspirational, and I voted Democratic.

    5. Sometimes it’s more important to consider others before yourself. It’s what I’m expected to do.

    6. Everybody in the military has a reputation, and usually it doesn’t come out to the public.

    5 is the Not. That is from another Wesley. Wesley Crusher to be exact.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OAqsU-BY58w

    1. 3. Five-year-olds have an uncanny way of getting into your psyche, your self-esteem.

      Sad!

      1. Never trust anyone over 2.

      2. The quote in context: “Slobodan Milosevic was just as smart as a five-year-old. Five-year-olds have an uncanny way of getting into your psyche, your self-esteem.”

        Amazingly, it makes him sound even dumber.

        1. Has Wesley Clark been up to anything recently?

          1. No, but Derpetologist is doing God’s work when it comes to naming your boy Wesley.

  30. I guess it could be worse

    http://time.com/4446262/philip…..d=tcoshare

    1. What’s the over under on Trump making similar comments?

      1. or Bill Clinton?

    2. “U.S. State Department spokeswoman Elizabeth Trudeau said the department has asked the Filipino charg? d’affaires to “clarify” Duterte’s recent remarks about Goldberg, CNN said.”

      What’s to clarify? He insulted the U.S.A. in the person of our ambassador. Recall the ambassador and don’t send a new one until they apologize.

  31. The Council on American-Islamic Relations, Michigan (CAIR-MI) is sponsoring a “civil rights” lawsuit against ExpressJet Airlines by a a Muslim flight attendant.

    “Based upon her sincerely-held religious belief that prohibits her from serving alcohol, Ms. Charee Stanley was directed by the company to work out an arrangement with the other flight attendant on duty to accommodate passenger requests for alcohol. Meanwhile, Ms. Stanley was to accommodate other customer requests. The accommodation did not pose any hardship on ExpressJet Airlines whatsoever. Nonetheless, on August 25, 2015, ExpressJet Airlines revoked its religious accommodation and placed Ms. Stanley on administrative leave for 12 months, after which her employment may be administratively terminated.”

    1. The Qur’an prohibits Muslims from drinking alcohol. There’s nothing that I know of which prohibits them from handling, storing, or even manufacturing it. Hell, alcohol was discovered by Arab Muslim alchemists. That’s why it has “al” at the front like almanac and algebra.

      So much derp….

      1. They could have stopped right there and alchemy wouldn’t have the bad reputation it has today.

        1. Allah sounds like a hard-core Methodist.

          1. You ever heard of a Muslim Hymnal?

            1. Methodists do communion with grape juice.

        2. Well, hell. Got me there. I guess the Turks didn’t get the memo what with their raki.

        3. I note he didn’t say anything about beer. Or scotch.

          1. My father always warned me about the dangers of alcohol and men but he never said nothing about women and cocaine.

            Tulula Bankhead.

        4. but no mention of beer or those little bottles of shots

      2. My mistake- alcohol referred to a kind of powder made through sublimation, but later came to refer to anything obtained by distillation.

        wiki sez:

        Etymology
        The word alcohol appears in English as a term for a very fine powder in the sixteenth century. It was borrowed from French, which took it from medical Latin.

        Ultimately the word is from the Arabic ??? (al-ku?l, “kohl, a powder used as an eyeliner”). Al- is the Arabic definitive article, equivalent to the in English; alcohol was originally used for the very fine powder produced by the sublimation of the natural mineral stibnite to form antimony sulfide Sb2S3 (hence the essence or “spirit” of the substance), which was used as an antiseptic, eyeliner, and cosmetic (see kohl (cosmetics)) According to this theory, the meaning of alkuhul would have been first extended to distilled substances in general, and then narrowed to ethanol.[36]

        Bartholomew Traheron, in his 1543 translation of John of Vigo, introduces the word as a term used by “barbarous” (Moorish) authors for “fine powder.” Vigo wrote: the barbarous auctours use alcohol, or (as I fynde it sometymes wryten) alcofoll, for moost fine poudre.

  32. Former libertarian presidential candidate Ed Clark was asked to explain libertarianism in as few words as possible. He said “low tax liberalism”. That’s an improvement over regular liberalism although I prefer “live and let live”.

    I think GJ could walk on water and some libertarians would criticize him for not knowing how to swim.

    A Trump victory will produce epic lulz for about a week, but I do not expect him to be a good president from a libertarian perspective.

    1. “I think GJ could walk on water and some libertarians would criticize him for not knowing how to swim.”

      Jesus walked on the water
      And I know that it’s true
      But sometimes I think Gary Johnson
      is a real jerk.

        1. You forget one thing
          I reserve my good haikus
          For good candidates

    2. Change that to “no tax liberalism,” and we’re gettin’ somewhere.

      “Anything that’s peaceful” might be too vague, and “laissez-faire” ain’t American.

    3. Ed clearly doesn’t read reason. If he did, he would have known the answer was “Mexicans, Pot and Ass Sex”.

  33. I wonder if she knows that there are lots of women who find her cuntier than men do.

      1. Long as she kept her mouth busy or shut.

        1. You would take her to see *Hamilton?* Because that is what I was wondering. What did you *think* I meant, weirdo?

          1. What the hell is Hamilton? Is that one of your gay people things?

            1. Or are you talking about a 3 way with her and Dorothy Hamilton? Kind of a random choice but sure.

          2. She’s Lena Dunham in a pantsuit, and therefore doesn’t rate a spot on the infamous “wheel of would.”

            1. How do you know she wanted one of you pedicures anyways?

            2. At least she’s not Lena out of a pantsuit…

              /paging Barfman!

              1. SIV would gladly feature her on his impressively non-erotic blog.

                1. God, I was reading her twitter.

                  One minute, she’s describing how awesome it is to slander all libertarians as racist. So fun!

                  The next minute, she’s whining to Nick about the rudeness of “his” commenters, and how she just can’t find a “delete” button.

                  One minute, being a bitch is fun. The next, she’s a hurt, special snowflake victim.

                  Life: it’s so hard! She’s so brave!

                  1. +1

                  2. I had no idea comparing someone to Lena Dunham was so shocking. I do love getting under the skin of a socialist spokeswoman, though.

                    1. Uppity white women: they just all deserve it, don’t they?

                    2. It’s white people I general. I’m white and I’m horrible. She’s white and she’s horrible. We are burdened by our skin color. It’s not an excuse, but it helps explain why, you know.

                    3. If you spin around three times and vote the way she tells you to, you become ok.

    1. Did you see how much butthurt she’s feeling over our mean and sexist comments?

      And apparently Nick talked like he was Howard Stern. Which I take to mean that he obliterated her loathsome “anyone that disagrees with me and doesn’t support the Democrats is a vile racist” schtick.

      If I were an asshole, I’d point out that the Democratic party had multiple sitting senators who were active members of the KKK all the way into this fucking century. Or that they were the ones that blocked the CRA. Or that minimum wage laws and the drug war disproportionately affect black people but when the Democrats held both chambers and the Presidency they thought it was more important to pass healthcare reform that made it even more expensive and less likely for black people to get health insurance. If I were an asshole.

  34. It must be a thing because some random person on another site called me a racist when I stated I was voting for Johnson. “That’s the same thing as republican and you are racist!” They said. I would laugh but it’s really not funny to observe such ignorance.

    1. My response to said person would be to ask them which party Robert Byrd, Bull Connor, George Wallace and others were lifetime members of.

      1. My response would rhyme with “Duck Soup”

        1. Buck poop? That seems like it would be really hard to find

    2. So, you shouldn’t have racist beliefs if you don’t want to be called a racist. Gary Johnson like invented racism. White people, am I right?

      1. Yeah, white people suck and they should all die. Because they’re racists.

        /sarc

        1. There are people who say this without sarcasm. The abrasive action of divisive contention wears the veneer of civilization very thin.

          1. I had an extended conversation with such a person. The dialog became the basis for my magnum opus, The Derponomicon. Quoth he:

            I am actually Jewish by blood, and an atheist so I can identify with minorities. Can you name a single country in the entire world that white Europeans didn’t fuck up at some point? If you know anything about history, you will find that white Christians are behind nearly every atrocity ever.

            I asked him if he had ever heard of the Huns, the Mongols, the Assyrians, or the Aztecs. He grudgingly admitted that other groups committed atrocities too, but white Christians are still especially bad.

            I must warn novices that the contents of the Derponomicon may cause recurring nightmares, insanity, and suicidal thoughts.

            Here ya go: http://platedlizard.blogspot.c…..art-1.html

    3. Racism (and tribalism) is part of the normal human condition. “So I’m a racist, and…?

      As it goes on you’ll most likely find that his children, wife, and friends belong to the same tribe. B,B, But I don’t think that way! OK, but you behave that way

  35. Well in all fairness I am quite racist and sexist, but those do not preclude ending the drug war

    1. Ha ha, the joke’s on him, how could he get favors from the State Department by lobbying an independent, nonpartisan foundation which doesn’t influence the government?

      /sarc

      1. Remember when even the appearance of impropriety signified a personal unfitness for office?

        1. Compared to today, the Grant Administration looks like a golden age of clean government.

    2. “Newly released emails show Clinton Foundation donor lobbying the non-profit for favors from the State Department.”

      Busy, so I missed the PM links, noticed this later in the day and was gonna OT a link somewhere before I saw the PM links.
      So then I checked the web here and there, figuring even those that support that toxic hag would be a bit ‘disturbed’. Nope; a couple of articles and ‘Did You Hear What Trump Said?!!!!!’.
      No one in the major news orgs is going to hold her to a standard higher than the average numbers-game operator. Pathetic.

  36. So, better headline?

    Swinging Johnson and the 2016 Elections

    1. I’ll let him use this campaign song for a small royalty fee:

      I’m big and tough just like Charles Bronson
      I’ve got a big election swinging on my Johnson

      1. I’m Billy Weld, I embody perfection
        I got my Johnson all up in this election

  37. I think it is very interesting to see Ms. Byrne’s statements on why she does not stand with Jill Stein. Particularly the comment that Jill Stein does not put in the work otherwise to promote Democrats/Green Party candidates. It’s interesting to me how much party affiliation matters to her. That the promotion of one’s political party seems to be the central virtue of a politician.

    I am of course putting words in her mouth, and I’d love to hear her response in full. But I think that’s both an interesting mindset, and very likely not an uncommon mindset.

    1. Yeah, instead of calling Stein a commie with bad ideas, Byrne attacks her because of her lack of experience helping get Democrats elected. Stein was just fooling around doing doctor-y shit.

  38. So, yea, wanted to comment on the latest Hillary email nonsense which was barely covered in the PM links. I follow this stuff pretty closely, but was wondering how this gem was buried in the story:

    Early this year as the investigation into Clinton’s private email server was in full swing, several FBI field offices approached the Justice Department asking to open a case regarding the relationship between the State Department and the Clinton Foundation, according to a law enforcement official. At the time, DOJ declined because it had looked into allegations surrounding the Clinton Foundation around a year earlier and found there wasn’t sufficient evidence to open a case.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/09/…..index.html

    I had never seen this reported, and I’m pretty sure I follow this stuff more closely than 99% of the population. So this is the first time I have read of the Department of Justice squashing an early attempt to investigate the Clinton Foundation.

    Meanwhile, somehow an investigation started in a local FBI field office over cyber harassment took down the head of the CIA after spiraling out of control.

    Nothing to see here, folks…move it along…

    1. DOJ declined because it had looked into allegations surrounding the Clinton Foundation around a year earlier

      I’ll take a wild stab in the dark and guess “looked into” means “never made it past the subject line.”

    2. I DONT SEE WHAT THIS HAS TO DO WITH INTERPRETING TRUMP INSINUATIONS AS VIOLENT RHETORIC ERGO PPPPTTTTTTT

  39. GJ is Uber’s biggest fan. Not only white dudes like Uber.

    1. Yeah, that video sure dispels stereotypes.

  40. Can someone explain to me how ping pong is an Olympic sport but not, say, squash or racquetball? The cynic in me says ‘to give Asian countries a shot at their own dominant sport to pad medals’.

    1. It’s called table tennis, you racist.

    2. The short answer = its a bullshit decision-by-committee, which tends to try and limit sports which are dominated by a few western countries.

      Longer answer =

      The Olympic Charter indicates that to be accepted, a sport must be widely practiced by men in at least 75 countries and on four continents, and by women in no fewer than 40 countries and on three continents. The sport must also increase the ”value and appeal” of the Olympic Games and retain and reflect its modern traditions. There are numerous other rules, including bans on purely ”mind sports” and sports dependent on mechanical propulsion. These rules have kept chess, automobile racing, and other recognized sports out of the Olympic Games.

      In recent years the IOC has worked to manage the scope of the Olympics by permitting new sports only in conjunction with the simultaneous discontinuation of others. Sports that have already been part of the Games are periodically reviewed to determine whether they should be retained. The Olympic Program Commission notes that problems have arisen when trying to find venues to accommodate some sports’ specific needs, such as baseball and softball, which will be discontinued from Olympic programming starting with the London Games in 2012. When choosing sports to include in the program the IOC must take into consideration media and public interest, since these are a key drive behind the Olympic Games, but must simultaneously manage costs.

      1. Also, the sport was invented in England, as was the term “ping pong.”

        1. neither of those things are a point of pride to anyone.

    3. A couple of years ago they were threatening to get rid of wrestling. Wresting was in the Greek Olympiad. They wanted to get rid of it but keep shit like beach volleyball.

      1. Ancient Greek pottery shards, which I’m making, I mean discovering as we speak, show clearly that beach volleyball was one of the events at their Olympics.

        1. I think those shards were found by the same team that found all of those Nephite coins in eastern Nebraska.

          1. Well they had to be genuine — they were engraved with the year of issue: “589 BC”

      2. Ok.. On the one hand the most primal sport – hand to hand combat – with an ancient tradition

        On the other hand… Brazilians in bikinis.

        Eh…. not much of a contest.

        1. For every Brazilian in a bikini there are ten American MILFs who should be wearing one pieces and one Saydi in a burka

          1. Your definition of MILF is soooooo…you

            1. Kerry Walsh is like 40 and has two kids. She needs to put some clothes on. She is not a Brazilian hotly anymore if she ever was one.

              1. Kerry Walsh…. 3 time Olympic gold medalist for the USA. Not Brazilian.

                Grading on a Hollywood scale – never was hot. Grading on regular people scale for 40 years old and mother of two…..

                As for the Brazilians… what were you trying to say? I mean, I know you have your own preferences, but damn son, if you can’t figure out if this is in the hot group or the not hot group….

    4. Rufus The Monocled|8.10.16 @ 9:10PM|#
      “Can someone explain to me how ping pong is an Olympic sport but not, say, squash or racquetball?”

      Ha! At least it has a score you can count!
      WIH is “Synchronized Diving” doing there?!

      1. So housewives and bored college girls can lust at In shape gay men

    5. There’s badminton.

  41. Semi-related to Rufus’s post, but not enough to sub-thread it:

    Segregation and the Shooting Sports

    Short version: In the US, shooting competitions are rarely segregated by gender, because it is one of the few sports where women can hang with the men, and in some cases do better on average. However, the Olympics do segregate it by gender, and the reason seems to be that every time they desegregated it, European teams got pissed off because they were getting beat by US and Chinese women.

    1. Especially in the “shooting moose from helicopters” competition.

      1. And Team USA cleaned up in the “shooting cans off fenceposts while drinking beer” competition.

        1. “shooting cans off fenceposts while drinking beer” competition

          +1 The real Biathalon

        2. Or making a beer bottle dance out the water 7 times with a 1911

          1. You’d have to take the top off 6 times to make that work.

    2. “…every time they desegregated it, European teams got pissed off because they were getting beat by US and Chinese women.”

      May be anecdotal, but the WWII Red army had a disproportionate number of women as snipers. The only claimed explanation I ever read had to do with women being physically relaxed under stress; I dunno.

      1. The explanation was they were desperate for manpower. You don’t have to be physically strong to be a sniper. Being a sniper is mostly waiting and hiding and shooting. And women can do that just as well as men. So, making them snipers freed up men for more physically demanding combat jobs.

        1. That’s good, John, and I should have thought of it.
          Sorta like Overy’s claim that the USSR ‘out-produced’ the US for some period of time and it did so as a result of patriotic fervor!
          Bullshit. They counted the damn Studebaker trucks as Russian production since they had to assemble them, they lied about the rest, and ‘the people’ worked those horrible hours because the alternative was clearing mines (by leading the troops), or getting shot.

      2. I’m not sure that’s it. It’s a bit anecdotal, but just about every firearm trainer I’ve ever heard of say that women generally make better students than men, with the theory being it’s because they’re less likely to posture and act like they already know everything and therefor are more likely to listen to the instructor.

        In the USSR’s case, it could also be that since they were suffering severe manpower shortages, the fact that it’s not something that requires brute strength meant they could recruit women for the role and free up manpower for other units.

        1. +1 – see above.

  42. 1. Is it the libertarians’ fault or the Republicans’ fault that one of the bluest cities in America just got revealed to employ a bunch of brutal racists in their police department?
    2. If I’m only half white, can I still be a libertarian, or am I out of the club and forced to vote Democratic? Plz answer Mrs. Byrne, the non-white part of me is unable to think for itself

    1. Democrats have always been the party of opportunity for nonwhites.

      Think of all the opportunities they opened up for black people in many fields.

      Cotton fields, tobacco fields…

    2. 1. Yes. Duh. ’cause racists.

      2. If you want to be in the Libertarian club, all you have to do is denounce everyone else as not really a libertarian. That’s how we roll. As for team D…. well, if you have “not white” anywhere in your lineage, they believe your soul belongs to them. So don’t tell them if you are wavering on your undying love for team D. Nothing is worse than an apostate.

    3. Is it the libertarians’ fault or the Republicans’ fault that ….

      yes

    4. If I’m only half white, can I still be a libertarian, or am I out of the club and forced to vote Democratic?

      According to Barack Obama, you must vote Democrat, you fucking Uncle Tom.

      According to our own Heroic Mulatto, you may be a libertarian.

      Choose you destiny.

  43. http://www.tmz.com/2016/08/10/…..ght-video/

    Could someone familiar with gay male culture explain what Sam is pissed about in this video? Is it because the guy is a twink and Sam is a bull queer?

    1. They’re Shakespeare scholars arguing over the identity of the Dark Lady of the Sonnets – one of them said it was the Earl of Essex, the other said it was obviously Queen Latifah.

      1. Okay. Then what is going on there? Why is the one guy a disgrace to the community?

        1. I notice you didn’t even address my theory.

        2. Who cares?

          what’s “The Community” anyway? there’s no secret handshake, initiation-rites, or proscribed orthodoxy of “gay” any more than there is for hetero.

          Its just some dumb shit people say these days because they’re obsessed with collectivized identity politics, and the worst thing you can do is pretend someone isn’t *really* part of the Team (take note of Hazel above, swishing around and acting like “UGH ALL THESE FAKE LIBERTARIANS UP IN MAH FACE”)…. because TEAM is sooooooo what libertarians are about. the whole concept is gay (not in the sex way)

          1. It is so biZare. Apparently there is a secret handshake and that guy didn’t know it and Sam wasn’t happy about it.

          2. there’s no secret handshake, initiation-rites

            How do you know?

            1. It is what he heard Sidd. NTTAWWT

          3. the worst thing you can do is pretend someone isn’t *really* part of the Team

            No, it isn’t.

            It’s not doing the libertarian movement any good to be associated with far-right militia groups and neo-confederates, Gilmore. It alienates more people than it attracts.

            This election season is the bets the LP has ever done, and why? Because we have two moderate, socially liberal, socially inclusive, politically experienced governors on the ticket. Because they’re actually running as centrists and not extremists.

            Libertarians talk a lot about being socially liberal and fiscally conservative. But when happens when a socially liberal fiscally conservative young person gets involved? They immediately discover that a whole bunch of people calling themselves libertarian aren’t socially liberal all all, that in fact they’re a bunch of far-right patriot militia people. It turns people off, Gilmore.

            I have had people say explicitly, to my face, that they stopped calling themselves libertarian because they didn’t want to be associated with a bunch of people who were essentially closeted racists.

            It’s a huge mistake to say that everyone’s welcome, even people who are fucking repellent to the vast majority of the country.

            1. Libertarians aren’t socially liberal, they’re politically liberal. Meaning, they can not only be as personally conservative as they want, they can believe as strongly as they want that society should be conservative — as long as they don’t believe that those preferences should be realized through the political violence of the state (or political violence outside the state, of course).

              1. And they can be as personally liberal as they want too.

                As long as social conservatives can keep their mouths shut about their hatred of gay marriage they are welcome to vote libertarian and support the libertarian movement.

                But what we don’t want is for the libertarian movement to be defined by the fight against anti-discrimination statutes. We’re not against anti-discrimination because libertarianism is a socially conservative movement or a racist movement. We’re against anti-discrimination statues because we’re socially inclusive even of social conservatives. In other words, we’re so fucking socially liberal, we’re even tolerant of the bigots. We’re even more liberal than the fucking liberals.

                And if we’re trying to appeal to mainstream Americans and not be regarded as a bunch of fringe kooks, it’s probably not a good idea to make defending the rights of a bunch of marginalized bigots to be the centerpiece of your movement. Let’s not forget that these people have in fact used political violence to impose their preferences whenever they have had the opportunity to do so.

    1. “Upcoming” means Friday afternoon?

      1. The article says Thursday. No Man’s Sky is being released for PC on Friday. Are you saying that I could play No Man’s Sky on PC and smoke weed and NOT go to jail, all on the same day? Apocalypse now.

    2. No way. It stays on the schedule

      1. I mean no way do they change it

        1. With the most lame and bullshit excuse ever. Obama’s legacy.

    3. “We were wrong all along. Sorry for this evil injustice and affront to liberty we’ve inflicted upon ya’ll, totes un-schedule”

    4. They’re going to reschedule it.

  44. Gary is the youngest candidate running. He’s the only one who could possibly go two terms before the Social Security “use by” date. And that’s still a couple decades up on JFK! What kind of government of geezers are These States trying to organize into a rest home of hot checks and busted balances?

    1. This is the most coherent thing i’ve ever heard you say (up until the last 5 words)

      I still say = Vote Hillary.

      Because i think America needs a president to have a stroke on TV

    2. Teabagger! As long as Hillary can keep from shitting her adult diapers and on stage while being held up by a couple of secret service guys who can withstand the stench, and she can utter a few words without drooling, she’s the clear choice!

      1. What kind of right-wing extremism is that?

        I say, put her in her room to “recuperate” and let Bill play the Edith Wilson role.

        1. Well, that is a better solution. I’m pretty sure it’s illegal, but that’s not really a thing for the ruling elite anyway. But the thought of an executive too senile and too busy sniffing the arses of young interns to do any real harm is a great idea.

  45. Libertarians are “racist” by popular and legal definition. We have nearly 3 million civilian federal government employees. I’d be all for firing 99%+ of them tomorrow and stiffing them on their pensions to boot. Of course I’m an extremist. Let’s say one of my cosmotarian brothers would prefer a “non-essential” hiring freeze and a reduction through attrition and voluntary early retirement bonuses until we are down to 500,000 or less. Hell, the cucks at National Review would probably go along with that.

    DISPARATE IMPACT

    GENOCIDE OF THE BLACK MIDDLE CLASS

    Reducing government employees at the federal (or all levels) is going to have a disparate impact on minorities who are disproportionately employed in the public sector. If you want to cut government employees you are by definition RACIST.

    1. A point Thomas Sowell has been making for 40+ years to no avail is that there is not a single example, anywhere, ever, where different groups of people achieved identical results. For example, in almost every country, one ethnic group ends up dominating the military while another ends up dominating the merchant class while another ends up dominating academia and so on. Different groups of people have different net behavior which leads to different net results.

      But progs cannot understand this, because despite constantly yammering about the glory of diversity, they want people to be identical worker bees.

      1. They don’t understand because that doesn’t matter. The point is for there to be a “problem” which they alone are allowed to have the power to “fix” at by whatever means and cost they deem necessary.

        1. Yeah, and since people aren’t equal and never will be, a perfect excuse for endless social engineering projects is to say that different groups of people must be equal.

    2. Reducing government employees at the federal (or all levels) is going to have a disparate impact on minorities who are disproportionately employed in the public sector. If you want to cut government employees you are by definition RACIST.

      ——————-

      Did you know that libertarians are racists who hide behind criminal-justice reform, ending the drug war, lobbying for open borders, & non-interventionism?

    1. Jew boy is off the plantation.

      1. More like off the brick factory.

            1. Exlanation is when you depart from a local area network.

              1. Isn’t that kind of what the Israelites ended up doing?

                1. That was a local pharaoh network.

    2. Who the fuck goes to these things?

  46. I’m a racist but only towards snails.

    1. It’s funny because snails are really slow and would lose any race.

  47. So I finished The Wire for the second time a couple days ago… and i was going through the extras/cast interviews and something that just smacked me in the face was….

    …McNulty is a *brit*??

    I couldn’t fucking believe it.

    i had a flashback to him in like season 2 where he goes to the whorehouse and pretends to be English and i remember thinking ….“jesus, this actor’s “fake british accent” is so fucking awful, i can’t tell if its ‘good acting’ or if he’s genuinely just terrible with accents”

    Basically, if you’d asked me who seemed the most ‘natural’ in their role, as though they were actually native to the region? I’d have said him. I just can’t look at him and hear him “be british” and not see McNulty acting like a ponce.

    I remember being “mildly impressed” when i learned that 80% of the actors in Black Hawk Down were all Brits, and commended them on their ‘fake american’. But this is on a whole ‘nother level. he sold me on the character so hard that his “real” persona seems ridiculously fake.

    1. True story – “Hugh Grant” is actually an American named Bud Bukowski. He grew up in Peoria.

      1. John Gielgud was born in Brooklyn and his real name is Sol Abramski.

        1. Benedict Cumberbatch was born in Seymour Indiana. He real name is Tuff Hendrix and was a dedicated Jugaloo until he took up acting at the age of 22.

          1. Dame Judy Dench used to be Beverly Ginatucci, back when she was a cocktail waitress in Las Vegas.

            1. If I ever get married, it will be to a woman who can spin her tassels like that.

              -jcr

          2. Alfred Hitchcock’s real name is Leroy Jenkins. He sold propane and propane accessories in Homer, Louisiana while making movies in his spare time.

            1. Larry the Cable Guy is actually Viscount Althrop Mertinwinkle from Bristle-upon-Sty, Sussex.

              1. Clint Eastwood’s real name is Thurston Wentworth IV. He became active in theatre whilst studying at Oxford, much to the chagrin of his father who was the chief barrister in Newcastle-on-Tyne.

              2. Patrick Stewart was born Phil Stankowski. Growing up in Rochester, NY, he started his career working in a transistor factory. When a house fire destroyed his beloved collection of Bills and Sabres sports memorabilia, his grief led him to Shakespearian acting.

                And Sir Paul McCartney started out as Pablo Mendoza of San Antonio, TX. As a youngster, his first musical gig was in a kids’ mariachi band, but his family decided to move to Liverpool shortly thereafter.

                1. And Agile Cyborg is (this is tough) Leo Szilard reincarnate.

    2. The Wire went downhill after they killed off Idris Elba. The last two seasons were meh.

      1. He was too urban.

      2. You can sort of tell that the original script was only for 3 seasons, and that seasons 4 & 5 were completely strapped on as a secondary deal. The story ‘ends’ much neater (at least more satisfyingly) in season 3.

        That said, i think the whole “kids” angle in seasons 4 &5 added depth/realism/and tragedy to the world they’d developed. You never wonder “who was bubbles as a kid”, until you realize Dookie at the end is probably going in that direction.

        1. Yeah, the kids angle was interesting, but it had a different feel to it from the first three seasons.

    3. Interestingly, David Simon says his (Dominic West’s) Baltimore accent was total shit, and he sounded like an Australian making fun of a bostonian or something.

  48. So Hillary Clinton is still advertising in the Virginia market. She has had at least three commercials on the Olympics tonight. So much for the story that she had canceled all of her ad buys because the thought the state was in the bag. She sounds just like Trump. The whole commercial is about how she is going to punish businesses who try and move jobs overseas. So much for the liberaltarian claims that Hillary is better than Trump because TRADE WAR.

    1. You live in Virginia?

      1. No. But in the DC market which includes Virginia. Hillary sure as hell is not running those ads to reach voters in Maryland or DC.

    2. So, she says she’s going to do the same thing Trump wants to do? Ah, OK. The best Trump ad I’ve seen is just a list of all the corporations and foreign govts who have given her money and the amounts. Meanwhile, Team Cankles thinks this will hurt Trump:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YINooPV7jM

      1. Yes. The whole ad is about how she is going to get American workers a fair deal in trade negotiations, punish companies that move jobs overseas, make the fat cats pay their fair share and then use the money to create millions and millions of jobs. I am not shitting you.

        1. Meanwhile, one of Team Blue’s less popular propaganda outlets has this to say:
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFRYRWS31WE

      2. Wait, you’ve seen a Trump ad? I have yet to see a single Trump advertisement, either direct Trump campaign or 3rd party in support of Trump.

        Clinton is all over the place. Particularly in the cheap buys. Pretty much every ad on cable on Demand is a Clinton spot.

        I didn’t know Trump was doing paid advertising. I thought he was just getting free coverage by saying wacky stuff.

        1. There are a lot of Trump ads playing in California for some reason.

          1. Is he just going off of the “do the opposite of everything a republican strategist tells me” plan? In what world does he think California is in play?

    3. Vote for Trump, because Hillary is JUST AS BAD!

  49. A comment I want to make on the post about “adulting” classes:

    For most of history, the main goal of most people was survival and after that, comfort. The desire for safety and comfort is normal and good most of the time. I think it was Aristotle who said that most vices are just virtues that are taken too far. Confidence is good; arrogance is not. I think it’s the way with helicopter parenting. The normal desire to protect and care your children has just gone to far for some people. It was limited in the past mainly by poverty, but now that relative prosperity is the norm, people aren’t forced to go to work and harden up the way they used to.

        1. I meant this, but this is even better.

      1. More like this

  50. I have a standard response for anyone calling me a racist. It’s: “Fuck you, you guilt-peddling twat”.

    -jcr

    1. You only use the f-word once? I use it several times, combined with comments about their intelligence and their spouses’ fidelity. If I’m in a good mood, that is.

      1. You only use the f-word once?

        Unless they persist.

        -jcr

    2. I forget who said it but the gist was racist is what they say when they can’t refute you. 500 years ago, they would have called you a witch or a blasphemer.

      1. I think that was every single paleo and alt-righter.

        1. With the Internet, it’s fairly easy to find actual racists if you’re looking for them.

          Or if that’s too hard, you can just call everyone you don’t like a racist and run with that.

    3. It’s really not difficult not to be racist in a way that other people notice.

  51. Anyone who disagrees with a progressive [Hillary Supporter] is a racist or a misogynist; it just is, and if you argue with that you are also stupid.

    Yep, pretty much the new witch and blasphemer designations.

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