Orlando Shooting

America Needs a New, Decentralized Counter Terrorism Paradigm in the Wake of the Orlando Tragedy

Giving more draconian powers to intelligence bureaucracies will make us less free, not more safe

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The popular wisdom on both the left and the right is that the Orlando massacre represented an intelligence failure. And how does one deal with this failure? By

Terrorism
cometstarmoon via Foter.com / CC BY

rewarding it, of course, and giving FBI even more draconian surveillance and spying powers – if Hillary Clinton's proposals and Republican legislation is any indication.

But I note in The Week today that Orlando's lesson isn't just that our intelligence systems failed. It's that they cannot succeed. To blame the FBI for not stopping the tragedy is to blame it for not being able to delve into the minds of citizens and pre-empting pre-crimes, The Minority Report-style. It shows that we have not fully grokked the nature of the modern-day terrorism that has evolved from being controlled by state actors to Al Qaeda cells to lone wolves.

A counter-terrorism model that wants to empower central bureaucrats to put away people with bad motives won't make us more safe, just less free. We need a paradigm shift and decentralize our terrorism-fighting capacities. That means, among other things, encouraging private entities like clubs, malls, movie theaters, and other places where people gather to take charge of their own security.

Go here for the whole piece.

NEXT: Poll Shows the Partisan Gulf in Views of Orlando Attack's Causes

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  1. If you’re going to post duct-taped hot dogs, can we at least get some explanatory alt-text?

    1. Duct-taped hot dogs? You mean the bundle of explosives he’s holding?

      1. (psst, he’s speaking in ISIS-code! play along)

        “YES BROTHER!! WE ALSO LOVE ‘HOT-DOGSES’!”(wink wink wink)

    2. No! The article was decently-reasoned an coherent. If Dalmia’s new ghost-writer wants to post pictures of duct-taped hotdogs, who are we to judge?

      1. Dalmia’s new ghost-writer

        Which is to say, the call-center employees in Bangalore which Shikha has used for the past decade as part of their ‘language training’.

    3. Hot dogs are the weakness of jihadists everywhere.

      1. They’re not called Hebrew National for nothing.

        1. Nice emphasis.

        2. I thought it was (((National))) now

          1. Exactly.

    4. They’re the hot dogs that Dipshit uses to stir the soup while she’s thinking about Bin Laden, KSM, Maten, etc. etc.

    5. I suspect it wouldn’t contain much nuance.

    6. Toronto Maple Leaves fans know what that’s all aboot.

    7. Sausage-fest bomb? Seems kinda insensitive.

    8. Its a weapon of mass ingestion.

  2. I actually agree with her here. What the hell is this world coming to?

    1. I know right, do they have April Fool’s Day in June in India?

      1. No, but they certainly have that here and Ms. Dalmia wasn’t the Reason staffer who famously bought into an April Fool’s Day prank.

    2. I was just thinking the same thing. The World Turned Upsidedown.

  3. The easiest way to decentralize it into 320-million parts is through constitutional carry.

    1. Winner

    2. You’re correct but that’s not going to happen. Things are going to be much more restrictive and arbitrary if the gun control people get their way and it looks like their star is rising.

    3. Everyone out of the pool. the thread has been won.

    4. Pretty much what she’s advocating. And allowing members of the military to carry their weapons everywhere – instead of making bases gun-free zones and keeping soldiers disarmed on U.S. soil.

    5. Places like Pulse would still be allowed to prohibit weapons.

      1. Yes, but I believe it’s Florida law and not the night club which disallows carry in establishments which serve alcohol.

      2. Then they better have lockers.

    6. “The easiest way to decentralize it into 320-million parts is through constitutional carry.”

      Injun wins.

  4. If government cant reward failure, what can they reward?

    1. Unyielding loyalty? That’s pretty much been the history of the two major parties. The reality is that Tammany Hall never really went away.

      1. Irish welfare.

  5. Sounds like to me the FBI finds the 4th Amendmentioned inconvenient. And why is it if all the new laws giving the Government the right to violate our privacy are for our own good then why are they always hidden in some piece of legislation no one hears about. Wakeup people. Stop watching reality TV and get involved

  6. So the,FBI was watching this guy. They could have easily flagged this guy in the background check system. Even if they had no reaaon to deny him they could have notified OPD that this guy on their terrorist radar just bought an MCX. Might want to keep an eye on him. So they already have all the tools they need, they just dont use them.

    1. So they already have all the tools they need, they just dont use them.

      Clearly they require more tools.

      And money.

      Additionally, JB, according to the officials I heard answering questions it appears that there are too many laws which interfere with them doing their jobs, so there is the “Freedom” problem as well. That pesky Constitution and Bill of Rights prevents them from keeping us safe.

    2. Do you really believe anyone in government cares if 50 people are murdrred. Our government took us from the most educated country to 25th out of 39 industrial nation. A scared uneducated populace is easier to control. The FBI finds the 4th Amendment inconvenient and if the people get scared enough they will get rid of it.

  7. We can debate ad nauseam whether it was his Muslim background or his closeted homosexuality that caused him to go radical

    Just another ‘splodey homo, I say.

    Is it all that inconceivable that a neo-reactionary white guy who has had enough with the humiliation and emasculation from feministas could decide to bomb a meeting of Social Justice Warriors?

    It’s pretty fucking inconceivable that reading 15,000 word Moldbug essays would cause someone to blow up blue hairs.

    It is now impossible to get into a mall without going through a metal detector or drive into a hotel without opening the trunk for examination. Neighborhoods have become gated communities… Something similar will need to happen in America if the terrorist threat keeps growing. It will be a huge mental adjustment, a shock to the system. We will be less carefree. But it’s better than being less free.

    I’m starting to think Shikha isn’t the best open borders advocate.

    1. None of the malls by my house have metal detectors. My suburb has one gated community, which has been gated since it was built 35 years ago. I park downtown in a major urban area in parking structures 5-6 days a week and have never had to open my trunk.

      WTF is this chick talking about?

      1. She’s talking about the FEMA camps, you sheep!

      2. India

        1. Oh, I was supposed to RTFA? Who’s got time for that.

          1. I hadn’t read a Shikha article in years. The fucking liars upthread said this one was good though.

  8. OT TMI: I’m due to see a therapist later today. It’s my second session, and I’m strongly inclined to skip it. I realize you can’t know what you don’t bother to learn, but I’m wracking my brain for an idea of what this woman could possibly tell me that I don’t already know. Is it worth the hassle, or should I strap my balls back on and man up?

    1. OK. If she were to have some wisdom to impart that you didn’t already know… you wouldn’t have any idea that that bit of wisdom existed, would you?

      So your lack of an idea isn’t really evidence that talking to her won’t be helpful.

      1. I get that. It’s just an odd situation, filtering my thoughts through someone else’s brain and expecting to get something more useful than I’ve been able to come up with. I’m not in denial about the person I am, I’m not trying to ferret out repressed memories or deal with trauma or anything like that.

        How I imagine therapy.

        1. It’s a perspective thing, though I doubt that a therapist really has any more value there than any other human being with functioning hearing.

        2. Get you Soma prescription and behave, comrade!

    2. Definitely – you need to recognize that there are forces beyond your conscious control that will surely be your own undoing if you fail to acknowledge and grant them propitiation. The fate of the world depends on it – or at least your local gay bar.

      1. I like the gay bar. They do karaoke.

        1. You should go. But if they give you a big hug and you can feel them patting you down – don’t assume it’s something more intimate.

          1. It’s mostly bull dykes and older straight couples with incredible singing voices.

        2. Of all the martial arts, karaoke inflicts the most pain.

    3. you’re a guy?!?

    4. A therapist’s job is to get you to come back every week. That’s it.

      1. But a bomb dropper’s job is *not* to drop bombs. And a warmonger’s job is *not* to incite wars. And oil industry shillmen *don’t* lose their shit when you suggest that Flemming Rose is a patsy for the Danish Secular Caliphate.

      2. That’s a whore’s job, too.

      3. A therapist’s job is to get you to come back every week

        …and, in a (more or less) capitalist system, the way to do that is by providing the patient with a service that said patient finds helpful and useful in their life. Are you going Bern Victim on us, Playa?

        1. No, Playa is correct.

          1. How are they going to get referrals and other new business if their patients never get any better? Are the millions of people who have been helped by therapy and psychology suffering from a massive and very ironic delusion?

            1. I don’t think he was necessarily saying that the patient’s never get better

              1. Blah, patients

            2. Way to miss the point.

              There are good therapists, and some not-so-good ones.

              Just be on the lookout. That’s all I’m saying.

            3. It’s possible the meds did all the work.

        2. Dude, it’s not that simple. The therapist does have an interest in helping you, but he also has to make payments on his BMW.

          I went to a marriage therapist with my wife over a fundamental disagreement on child rearing. Cost: $150/hr. After about 20 minutes into the 1st session, he said “You don’t need my help” and refunded the other 40 minutes. Do you have any idea how incredibly rare that is?

          1. You wanted to go Full Skenazy?

            1. You never go full Skenazy.

            2. Ha, no.

              She has some serious working mom’s guilt. She was primary on the 1st kid, and did a good job with him. Then she made partner at her law firm, which requires pretty long hours, so I’m primary with the 2nd and 3rd kids.

              She got in the habit of letting them get away with anything and everything when she was in charge, and it really frustrated me. I don’t have a lot of rules for the kids, but the ones that I do have apply 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, everywhere.

              1. She has some serious working mom’s guilt.

                My sis is a stay-at-home mother of two and is convinced, despite her kids being ambitious and adorable, that she’s fucked them up irreparably and they hate her for it.

                1. As long as the kids don’t know. They’ll use it to manipulate later.

                2. that she’s fucked them up irreparably and they hate her for it

                  aka Standard Childhood.

                3. Sounds like my sister. The reality is her kids don’t like being around her too much – which means they got the ambition to work hard and get good jobs so they could move out as ASAP. in other words, they want to be the exact opposite of mom.

                  Which is true of most kids. No parents really have so much control that they are the main reason their kids turn out the way they do, but TOP. MEN. like to believe in such drivel. The best a parent can do is set an example, and no person is so self-aware that they know every example they are setting.

                  1. Which is true of most kids.

                    I wonder about that. I’m amazed at the number of high school and college students I meet who want to live at home during college, or at a minimum go home every weekend. I’m also amazed at how many people seem perfectly happy to live at home into their twenties and even thirties.

        3. Or just make patients think you’re helping them and that they need to keep coming back for years before they’ll be truly ‘cured’. There are countless suckers out there, so this is doable. The suckers will sometimes tell other suckers that the therapist is actually helping them, even if that isn’t really true.

    5. Rather than talking with me, my daughter decided that going to a therapist would be better. Impartial third party, she doesn’t agree with me, etc, etc.

      Anyway, she’s still going and doesn’t seem to have changed at all. I’d honestly say that you’re better off just going out for beers with a friend you can trust.

      1. ^This.

        RE: Your daughter – the lightbulb has got to really want to change. Maybe she just enjoys someone who will listen non-judgementally for an hour a week.

        1. That’s most likely it. I think her real problem is she’s fighting a losing battle with cognitive dissonance. She’s really quite smart but she spends all kinds of time on Tumblr. I think her brain is just constantly trying to fight off bullshit programming that her heart wants to believe.

          1. How old is she, if I may ask?

            1. She’ll be 21 on Monday.

              1. The cement is almost dry by 21. You can still fix it, but she’ll hate you for a while.

              2. Well, she’s an adult and can spend her money however she wishes, I guess.

                1. Exactly. I’m doing for her what my parents did for me, giving her the freedom to be who she wants to be and lending help when she needs it.

                2. Is she paying for the therapist out of her own pocket?

                  1. No RC, you’re paying for it.

          2. Quitting Tumblr will fix the problem.

            1. You know that and I know that. I’ve tried to convince her to do so but I’m not going to hover over her blocking her access.

              1. She has to find something else to replace it. Maybe there’s an activity you can suggest that you can do together

                1. Yes. Something outdoors. Or something helping other people. Or both.

                  And grief blogging ISN’T helping people.

                2. I’m hoping she gets a job this summer, I think that will help. There are times when she comes to me and we spend several hours talking about things. We get along just fine, she just doesn’t think about things the way I do (and I use words you’re not supposed to say anymore) and she has a hard time relating. In any case, I’m trying to let her be herself and not who I want her to be.

                  1. “I’m trying to let her be herself and not who I want her to be.”

                    As long as you’re not enabling. It’s a fine line.

                  2. You’re a good man, Sparks.

    6. Is it an appointment with Dr. Milfy? If so, it might be worth showing up.

    7. Good luck. If you really feel it’s not helping, then quit. Maybe there is a better therapist for you out there. Or maybe your problem really doesn’t need therapy. Wishing you the best.

      1. Thank you. It’s be no means serious, at least I don’t think so, but I’m long past the point of needing to make some changes.

        1. Listen, I’ll tell you something that I tell my wife and kids all the time. And I tell them this because I honestly believe it of everyone.

          You can do it and I believe in you.

          It sounds cheesy, but I really do believe that every person has the ability to take control of their life and make it better.

          1. You can do it and I believe in you.

            That’s what my dad told me.

            He said, “Rent is $50 a week or get the fuck out. You can survive on your own, I believe in you.”

            1. He told me this when I was 10. “Start preparing now. Rent starts on your 18th birthday.” Pretty much killed any entitlement mindset I had right then and there.

              He let me slide when I enrolled in college, because I paid my own way for that. Got the fuck out the week after graduation (had a job already).

    8. Therapy is one of those YMMV things. I’ve been through it and found it thoroughly useless and even potentially damaging in a couple of situations. It depends much more on your therapist’s personality than it does yours. I’m sure there are many good ones out there, but the ones that I’ve encountered seemed bent on making me feel like my problems were insurmountable and could only be mitigated through continued therapy indefinitely. It seemed like a total racket, and I walked away with the impression that the therapists originally got into the profession in an attempt to “fix” themselves.

      TL/DR: Use your best judgment and run like hell if it feels that you’re getting roped into anything long term.

      1. See, this is why I bring this up here rather than going to one of the social anxiety/depression forums, because they’re horribly self-reinforcing and really do make it out to be insurmountable.

        1. I think the important thing is to be open to trying new things to fix your problem, that may or may not involve therapy. When I had depression, therapy was useful for learning that it wasn’t going to work. I stopped going but I was still motivated to try other things until I found what worked, in my case they were lifestyle changes.

        2. It’s true, that’s kinda where my daughter is hung up. It goes back to defining their specialness by, what they think is, some horribly crippling disease that can never be fixed.

          If you have a friend that is willing to provide positive reinforcement when you need it, you don’t really need a therapist.

          IMHO

          1. It goes back to defining their specialness by, what they think is, some horribly crippling disease that can never be fixed.

            Unfortunately, that shit is often positively reinforced by friends and therapists.

          2. It goes back to defining their specialness by, what they think is, some horribly crippling disease that can never be fixed.

            I read this from either Leo Buscaglia or Alice Miller (how’s that for opposites – mr. love-n-hugs and a cold hard bitch): People like to possess problems and define themselves by the problems. That is just narcissism. Whenever some one tells me “I have insomnia” I say “No you don’t, you just can’t sleep.” As long as you think a problem is a part of you, you will cling to it instead of fixing it.

    9. I think there are therapists who can be extremely helpful, and that most of them are bullshit. Most will give a free consultation to allow you to feel each other out. Interview them like any other consultant you’re considering hiring. What is their background, their strategy, their success stories. Do they have a timetable estimate range?

      I picked my counselor because she was clearly focused on results and teaching effective techniques and habits that produce impact. A lot of what she told me was generally good advice that other people had told me before. She gave me the ideas in enough different ways with supporting examples that I was able to internalize the concepts and start practicing them.

      I’ve had depression since adolescence. I thought I would have it forever and just have to exercise religiously and be on medication. My counselor really helped me. If your pain points are large enough, I believe professional help can be worth the scratch.

  9. “That means, among other things, encouraging private entities like clubs, malls, movie theaters”

    What makes you think that club owners and theatre managers have any insight on the risks posed to their establishments by lone terrorists? Aren’t they busy enough running their businesses?

  10. So Shikha is a private security industry shill. Whooda thunkit.

    1. Didn’t the Orlando shooter work for one of these private security firms?

      1. You are correct sir. There’s been a rash of security-guards-go-berserk cases lately. It’s almost like they’re trying to say, “See, this is why you really need us!”

        1. When my friend was much younger, he used to vandalize cars on the premise that it would drum up business for his dad’s auto shop.

          1. “Like, everybody’s just out to get paid. They’re, like, hoping for more oil to come out and more people to complain so they’ll have job. ‘Cause once people get laid off here, it’s gonna suck for them. They want more disaster to happen. That’s where they’re money-making is.”

  11. The shooter could’ve easily went nutso after listening to too much gay bar music.

    ???”Work, work, work, work, work, work”???

  12. So I guess we’re already missing George W. Bush.

    51 U.S. diplomats slam Obama’s policy on Syria, urge military strikes

    Dozens of State Department envoys have signed an internal memo urging the United States to carry out military strikes against the government of President Bashar Assad.

    WASHINGTON ? More than 50 State Department diplomats have signed an internal memo sharply critical of the Obama administration’s policy in Syria, urging the United States to carry out military strikes against the government of President Bashar Assad to stop its persistent violations of a cease-fire in the country’s 5-year-old civil war.

    The memo, a draft of which was provided to The New York Times by a State Department official, says U.S. policy has been “overwhelmed” by the unrelenting violence in Syria. It calls for “a judicious use of standoff and air weapons, which would undergird and drive a more focused and hard-nosed U.S.-led diplomatic process.”

    Such a step would represent a radical shift in the administration’s approach to the civil war in Syria, and there is little evidence that President Obama has plans to change course.

    http://www.seattletimes.com/na…..ia-policy/

    1. Who are these people that think Al Qaeda and ISIS wouldn’t be the sole beneficiaries of pushing assad back??? Do they still believe in some mythical moderate?

      1. Well, they were the main beneficiaries of our policy in Iraq and Libya . . . maybe the hope is that they are preoccupied?

      2. There are some moderate forces in Syria. We know this because the Russians are bombing them into oblivion.

      3. At some point you have to admit that the Taliban, al Qaeda, and ISIS are the product of the CIA and that, because they are abject failures, the CIA and its sycophants will use such failures as a reason for more money. To do more of the same with the same results.

        The easiest way to stop ISIS, al Qaeda, etc. is to slash the CIA budget by 80%. Otherwise, you will get more of what you reward.

    2. Under president Suthenboy every one of those motherfuckers would be fired.

      Can someone explain to me how the situation in Syria is of any consequence to the United States? I just don’t get the Syria thing.

      1. Good luck dealing with the US MSPB.

        1. I would fire their asses too.

          1. Sounds legit.

            Carry on then.

          2. Well, I’ve found who I’m voting for in November

          3. Firing is too humane. Slash their budgets, then they’ll turn on each other.

      2. I’m going to say something controversial, and y’all can tear me up over it, but I have a working theory that we let ISIS take over Syra, establish a legitimate government, and the fucking New York Second they sponsor some terrorist shit, we declare War-War on them and carpet bomb them into the triassic era.

        1. the fucking New York Second they sponsor some terrorist shit,

          We send over our most craven diplomats, and shower them with cash, food, whatever they want.

          See, also, Iran, North Korea, etc.

        2. Controversial? This was the CIA’s plan from day one: Use Saudi money to create a group that wants to form a new caliphate run by displaced Iraqi Sunnis in the heart of a large Shiite area, then collect more money from the US taxpayer if/when it gets out of hand.

      3. “I just don’t get the Syria thing.”

        Long time now Americans have been opposing secular strongmen in the Middle East. Israel and Saudi Arabia share this policy.

    3. 51 U.S. Diplomats want war with Russia?? Weird. I thought diplomats were supposed to prevent wars… well, except Aztec Diplomats, who’s whole purpose was to piss people off, get attacked, and give the Aztec Empire causus beli to attack the nation they were sent too. But I thought the Mexicans weren’t controlling the US government yet…

    4. They are sending up the signal that they are ready for Hillary, and want to keep their jobs when the new regime is installed.

    5. I’ve been praying for SMOD before the election but a nuclear exchange with Russia will be more than sufficient. I support the memo.

  13. [picks up red phone]

    Someone get me Jack Bauer.

    1. I’d prefer Jack Reacher.

  14. Test. I’ve been having trouble posting.

    1. My thoughts and prayers are with you.

    2. I see you….. can you see me?

      1. Chris (Simpsons Artist) needs to team up with SugarFree on a picture book.

  15. Semi On Topic:

    Why Does the IRS Need Guns?

    The number of non-Defense Department federal officers authorized to make arrests and carry firearms (200,000) now exceeds the number of U.S. Marines (182,000). In its escalating arms and ammo stockpiling, this federal arms race is unlike anything in history. Over the last 20 years, the number of these federal officers with arrest-and-firearm authority has nearly tripled to over 200,000 today, from 74,500 in 1996.

    1. Why Does the IRS Need Guns?

      Because DHS basically turned every tentacle of the FedGov into its own enforcement arm?

      1. Because confiscating wealth requires violence.

    2. Ok NOW I understand why the left is concerned about Trump.

    3. Same reason the department of education needs guns?

  16. So the options in a scenario where we take Muslim refugees is either a police state worthy of Orwell, or Neil Stephenson-style burbclaves handling their own security from top to bottom?

    Too bad not taking in Muslim refugees and economic migrants is apparently impossible… for some reason.

    1. For what it costs to bring one refugee to the US we could help 50 of them in their home countries. I don’t believe for one second that the people bringing them over here are doing it to help the refugees.

      1. “For what it costs to bring one refugee to the US we could help 50 of them in their home countries. I don’t believe for one second that the people bringing them over here are doing it to help the refugees.”

        This utilitarian argument was brought up in Sweden years ago, it’s racist or something.

        1. I wonder how that is going over in Sveden? I don’t hear much about it so it must be going swimmingly.

          *Looking at some furren blogs I see an awful lot of anger and resentment and what we would consider shockingly racist comments. I am wondering where the breaking point is. My favorite was the swedish farmer who is robbed almost nightly and could not get the police to help him complained that the government had broken the social contract.

      2. Same. It reminds me of this article from an open borders supporter, which supposes that roughly 1 billion immigrants would migrate to the US under an open borders policy and anticipates that we would adopt Roman-style citizenship laws with a large immigrant underclass to adapt to this.

        http://openborders.info/blog/b…..an-polity/

        When this is the scenario you foresee for your policies, you’ve essentially ceded the argument.

        1. The incredible thing about that blog is that the author, an economist, essentially admits to having never even skimmed any of the 2X GDP papers despite citing them as gospel in his previous 50 giant open borders essays.

        2. I always love how the open borders advocates just pretend the US Welfare state doesn’t exist.

          Conceptually, I’m in favor of open borders. But such a policy works at cross purposes with a “moar welfare” policy. It doesn’t even matter that the immigrants collect zero welfare, the fact is the welfare state can only exist by limiting economic freedom. It’s inhumane to invite more people into a society with so many economic blockades, they have no choice but to live within the black market to survive, which officially makes them “criminals”. Which means more police, more lawyers, more laws, more taxes, more economic limitations etc. etc.

      3. They’re doing it to “fundmantally transform America”.

    2. Too bad not taking in … and economic migrants is apparently impossible

      I, too, long for the time when a head of romaine lettuce shall cost 8 to 9 bucks!

      1. I didn’t realize that Islam was so well-represented among the lettuce-pickers and day-laborers of America.

        As for the careers American Muslims are well-represented in, there’s a hell of a lot of engineering and medical students going to the Universidad Nacional Aut?noma de M?xico who’d jump at a chance to take a spot in that line.

        1. I didn’t read the adjective “Muslim” as inclusive of both nouns in the clause.

    3. The U.S. and Europe really have made a mess. They could have left them alone and kept them out for the past few decades.

    4. Well, we’re already getting VR, high-tech pizza delivery, and economic collapse. I just need to save up for Reason. Though as a deterrent, a personal nuke might work better.

  17. That means, among other things, encouraging private entities like clubs, malls, movie theaters, and other places where people gather to take charge of their own security.

    Sounds almost like a militia.

    1. The reason they don’t do that now is because dispite all the pants ahitting, there is almost no chance of a terrorist attack occuring at their facilities. Like injun said above, let everyone who wants to carry do so.

    2. We need a militia, and maintaining one was the main objective of the 2nd amendment, so it’s pretty much a failure whether we maintain an individual RKBA or not. Time was, our country had a fair bit of experience with so-called “fourth generation” warfare. The pro-MIC right is just as much as to blame as the pro-tyranny left.

  18. If you really want to stop this kind of terrorism take the attacker and bury them it in a vat of pig guts. And if that isn’t PC then to damn bad. Get our troops out of the Middle East, put sanctions on all countries sponsering terroism and yes I mean Saudi Arabia, Qatar, Iran and Turkey. We have become to civilized. The Cherokee were a pretty peaceful tribe but so the story goes if you attacked them they killed you, your family and your dog.

  19. Artisanal Mayo Store Getting Priced Out of Prospect Heights, Owner Says

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