Free-Range Kids

Sympathy for Gator Family Contrasts Sharply with Rage Toward Gorilla Mom

The illusion of perfect safety

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Alligator
Sportster883 / Dreamstime

There has been an outpouring of online sympathy for the parents of the boy who was killed by an alligator at a Disney resort in Orlando, which just goes to show that sometimes the internet has a heart, and sometimes it calls for blood.

The question is why.

In contrast with the half a million people who signed a petition against Michelle Gregg, the mom whose 3-year-old son got into the gorilla exhibit at the Cincinnati Zoo, leading zookeepers to kill 400-pound Harambe, commenters do not seem to be going insane over the fact that officials have already "put down" four Disney-area alligators, without being positive which of them, if any, dragged 2-year-old Lane Graves to his death.

If you can believe it, even CNN managed to keep some semblance of sanity, running a chart showing that cows, dogs, and even venomous spiders kill more humans than alligators do.

It was with relief that I found far more comments castigating those who would blame the gator parents than actual parental castigation. It's like the high road was the cool place to be, this time.  "It's ridiculous to blame the parents who were sitting a few feet away and did all they could to save him," read a typical online comment. And, on Twitter, "Pray for his family. Dont judge." "The parents in #DisneyGatorAttack don't need your harsh commentary during this awful event." "People without children are so quick to blame the parents when in fact this attack could have happened to anyone."

No charges are expected against the parents, law enforcement told the Associated Press, because, "there's nothing in this case to indicate that there was anything extraordinary" about the level of child neglect on display.

Compare this response to the vast numbers of people demanding the heads of gorilla boy's parents.

So, what accounts for the vast difference in response to these two incredibly rare toddler/animal tragedies that took place at family-friendly places?

Well first of all, of course, the 2-year-old died. There's no way to say that the Graves haven't suffered enough. Also, even as the story broke, we heard that the father desperately tried to open the alligator's jaws and couldn't. That is a horrifying image, and no one with a heart or head would dare accuse that dad of not doing enough.

Then there's the question of racism—although I think many people were jumping on the Cincinnati mom before they knew she was African-American.  Lane Graves was white.

And there's even the question of species-ism: Gorillas look like us. Alligators don't. It's easier to empathize with a primate.

But even more than all that, I think that so many people were eager to flog the Cincinnati mom because the mob needed someone to blame (that's what mobs do),  and moms are a favorite target these days.

This is the era when we have come to believe that mothers can and must be in control of their kids at all times. Any mom who takes her eyes off her kids—and we hear about it—is automatically a public enemy. (Think of all those moms berated for letting their kids wait in the car a few minutes, or play at the park unsupervised.) And if anything bad happens to an unsupervised kid, it's the mom's fault. So Michelle Gregg got the public's wrath, while the zookeepers, zoo designers, zoo guards, and fate, God's will, etc., etc., did not.

But this time, with the alligator incident, the mob seems to be aiming not at the mom, but at Disney. "I say the Grand Floridian is responsible for not having signs posted about the gators!! What parent would ever think that Disney would allow kids or anyone to be in an unsafe area," read one typical comment. Many others echoed the sentiment that Disney should have put "GATOR!" signs in the area, rather than just "No swimming."

The similarity here is that if there's any entity we love to blame more than moms, it's corporate America. So if we truly believe a mom should be been thinking, "Well, I know this has never happened once in 38 years of the gorilla exhibit, but what if today my kid tries to get in—and does? I better be preparing for that!" then we are also quite capable of thinking, "Well, just because we are one of the most popular tourist destinations in the world and not once has a guest ever been killed by an alligator, nonetheless we should be constantly warning vacationers about that gruesome possibility."

In both cases, the crowd has found someone it can second-guess after an exceedingly rare tragedy. That way it doesn't have to contemplate the unpredictability of life, or the fact that there is no such thing as perfect safety.  It can simply sit back and blame, which might as well be America's favorite coping device.

NEXT: A.M. Links: Clinton vs. Trump vs. Johnson, Senate Democrats End Pro-Gun Control Filibuster, Orlando Shooter Briefly Worked as Prison Guard

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  1. In both cases, the crowd has found someone it can second-guess after an exceedingly rare tragedy. That way it doesn’t have to contemplate the unpredictability of life, or the fact that there is no such thing as perfect safety. It can simply sit back and blame, which might as well be America’s favorite coping device.

    The two cases could not be more dissimilar. The family whose child was eaten by the gator were at a beach at a resort and had the right to assume they were safe from being eaten by an alligator. There were no signs that said “alligator area no swimming” or any reason for them to believe that being in the water was dangerous. The kid was being watched by his parents an in a foot of water.

    In contrast, the parents at the zoo had their heads up their ass and let their kid crawl in a cage with a gorilla. That is not the same thing as letting your kid got in a foot of water under your supervision at a beach at a resort.

    Why the difference? Gee I don’t know. Perhaps the level of negligence and the reasonable expectations of both of the parties involved maybe?

    And gee maybe the fact that the family Florida saw their child eaten in front of them made them a little bit more sympathetic than the family in Ohio whose kid was returned safely to them? But hey people just hate moms and like to blame people.

    1. It wasn’t at a beach, really. And there are plenty of no swimming signs around there.

      1. What about no wading signs?

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        1. This was the sign they had posted.

          http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix…..799870.jpg

          “Steep drop off. Deep Water. No Swimming”

          That’s not really the same as No Wading and it certainly doesn’t indicate to a family that there are multiple Alligators in the water. I’m not a consumer protection advocate, but it does appear that Disney’s signage ignored the most prominent danger.

          A drop off with deep water was not the issue.

          1. I disagree about the word “prominent.”

            “Sensational” is a better word. Drowning deaths far exceed alligator deaths in the USA, so the truly prominent threat is indeed drowning. But because this alligator attack was so sensational, it is given far more attention than most drownings.

            This is no different than people freaking out about the mass shooting in Orlando when more people are killed by preventable medical errors (now the 3rd leading cause of death, with ~440,000 Americans dead per year).

      2. I thought the gator dragged the boy into the water. It sounded like they weren’t swimming but it didn’t prevent the attack. Pretty sure the park is going to change how they label the area from now on, perhaps even fence it off.

        1. He was playing in about a foot of water, which unfortunately is where alligators hunt.

          1. Still, if you’re from Nebraska you probably wouldn’t equate “no swimming” with “watch out for gators”.
            Although people will probably make that association now. It’s a very tragic lesson.

            1. If I see a sign that says “No Swimming”, I think it means “No Swimming because our Insurance Company said we shouldn’t allow swimming for liability reasons”, I don’t think “No Swimming because you will be eaten”. I think it changes the mental calculus a bit when deciding whether or not you want to break the rule spelled out on the sign.

              1. How about a sign saying “Danger! Alligators!” ?

                1. The problem is then people go there to see the alligator and take a selfie.

                  1. How about they hand out a pamphlet explaining the dangers of alligators to all resort visitors?
                    In Arizona, when you go to one of the national parks they hand you a warning pamphlet about mountain lions and what to do if you encounter one.

                  2. “The problem is then people go there to see the alligator and take a selfie.”

                    The reaction will be completely differen when those people get eaten.

                2. The sign that says “Welcome to Florida!” already tells you there are alligators in the water.

      3. If it was that dangerous, the beach should not have been open. It was an open area at a resort. I think they had a right to assume they could be there without being attacked by an alligator.

        It is just a measure of how stupid we have become that we have allowed an animal as predatory and dangerous as the alligator to return to such numbers. I don’t think we should hunt them to extinction but when they start showing up at resorts and in subdivisions, it is time to thin the population. It is not an eagle or a condor. It is a primordial predator that considers humans to be lower on the food chain.

        1. You realize that would close every waterway in Florida, right?

          1. Imagine how many lives we’d save if we just banned Florida

            1. Or nuked it from orbit.

              1. It’s the only way to be sure.

              1. LOL Bugs had the right idea.

            2. Common sense Florida control. Who could be opposed to this?

            3. I was taking a trip to Miami last year, when I saw a sign on the highway that said “FLORIDA LEFT”

              So I turned around and went back home.

          2. No it wouldn’t. I am talking about wiping out the alligators where they are anywhere near populated areas. If that means alligators are restricted to a few isolated areas of the everglades, so be it.

            1. You’re not very bright.

              1. Why is that? Do you think it is impossible? Alligators were nearly extinct just a few decades ago. Do you think the alligators are of more value than people?

                Either way you are a moron who either doesn’t understand hunting or thinks alligators are more valuable than people.

                Given that you apparently have no sense, I can see why you think that those who do are not that bright.

                1. I think one child or a few dying isn’t enough to go on some gator-killing pogrom, but I understand everything terrifies you, so continue clutching your pearls and calling for the death of everything.

                  Mother Nature’s a bitch. Get over it you pathetic shitstain.

                  Better yet, get on a plane and fight ISIS yourself you fucking loser. Save us and the gators the trouble of putting up with you.

                2. Alligators roam around. And breed. Are you planning to build a giant wall around the everglades to keep them in there?

                  1. And he’ll make the alligators pay for it!

                  2. Build a great big a wall, but with a beautiful door to let the good gators back in

            2. I have seen gators in the lake bordering the Leu Botanical Gardens. Which is a short drive to the center of downtown Orlando. You really have no idea how widespread those animals are in Central Florida.

              1. They are in ponds by I-4 in the center of the city.

            3. I hope you’re being facetious.

              If you’re near water in Florida (and some other southern states) there’s an awfully good chance there’s an alligator nearby. Hell, people frequently find them in their pools. Disney has a team of workers who monitor its waterways and remove the larger animals they find, but it is unreasonable to think they could get rid of all of them.

              This child was wading at the edge of the lake, which is where alligators also tend to lurk. It was 9 or 9:30 p.m. (I’ve seen both reported) so likely around dusk. Most likely he got close to the animal and startled it without even knowing it was there. I believe that lake has been there for the entire 45 years of Disney World’s existence. There was a child injured by an alligator on Disney property back in the ’80’s when swimming was still permitted in the lakes, but that seems to be the only other reported incident. This was a tragic accident. Stop looking for someone to blame.

        2. It was the first time it had happened.

          A fluke, a black swan (not applicable in Australia, where all swans are black).

        3. There have been 5 alligator deaths since 2010. There are an estimated 1.25 million alligators in Florida. Alligators are known to be able to move miles away from rivers and lakes, thus making it virtually impossible to police their presence in any location 100%. They are also a keystone species, important to the ecology of swamplands and bayous. So for the sake of the loss of one child, tragic as it may have been, you want to slaughter thousands upon thousands of innocent animals, which would have a devastating effect on delicate ecosystems like the Everglades?

          Please tell me you’re joking. Otherwise, stop living in fear and try to understand the world around you.

    2. It is a lake in Florida at night. If you think just because you are at Disney that should be no alligators in that lake, you are operating on ignorance.

        1. In relation to this story, the saddest part of that list of advice is: “Don’t try to pry the jaws open. You won’t be able to.”

      1. Actually, that’s exactly what I would be thinking at a Disney Resort. In fact, being horribly killed by a near-prehistoric animal at the resort would fall very, very low on my list of expectations of what might happen to me.

        Disney is the most micro-managing company around, when it comes to the operation of their parks. Very, very little is left to chance. There will be many heads on pikes up the mgmt chain, once the plaintiff’s lawyers are done vacuuming up the loose change from the couches.

        1. I had the exact same thought. I am really shocked that this happened at a Disney resort.

          1. Animatronic alligators.

        2. “Actually, that’s exactly what I would be thinking at a Disney Resort.”

          What? You’ve never seen Jurassic Park?

    3. And gee maybe the fact that the family Florida saw their child eaten in front of them made them a little bit more sympathetic than the family in Ohio whose kid was returned safely to them?

      This is the key difference between the two. The rest is just tastes great/less filling about the Goldilocks amount of signage. IMO, they sent the kid out in a thunderstorm with a metal umbrella (it’s Florida, people find gators in their private pools and under their houses), but either way it’s pretty obvious that the other kid, who walked away, was the greater tragedy.

      1. I agree with JW above. I would never think to worry about an alligator when i was at Disney. If what you say is true and they should have, then the problem is we have lost our minds about nature. These things should be hunted such that they no longer pose a threat to anyone who doesn’t venture into the wilderness.

        1. How about, when you’re on somebody else’s private property, when they post signs telling you not to go in the water, you don’t go in the fucking water?! They put signs up to define what was necessary on the part of the customers to maintain a basic level of safety. The customers decided to ignore those signs. The reason for that requirement shouldn’t particularly matter.

          1. Except the customer didn’t ignore those signs. They weren’t swimming. From the reports I’ve seen, the kid was up to his ankles in the water, playing, with his parents a couple feet away on the beach. That isn’t swimming and how I would also interpret the sign.

            Make signs explicit and unambiguous. DO NOT ENTER THE WATER leaves nothing to interpretation.

            1. Yes it does.
              “Danger! Alligators!” would be more explicit.

              1. “Danger! Alligators!”

                HEY, you can’t blame ME for swimming in the water, it said “Danger! Alligators!” not “No Swimming”!! I assumed based on the sign that it was okay to swim as long as you were watching out for alligators!!

                Yeah, I kinda think no matter how you word the damn thing you risk some idiot interpreting it differently.

            2. How about this for a sign:

              Say goodbye before you set foot in the water, it may be the last time you’re seen alive.

        2. These things should be hunted such that they no longer pose a threat to anyone who doesn’t venture into the wilderness.

          How can you say that about a major success story of the ‘Endangered Species List’ John? They were protected until the mid-80s.

          It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Disney has a wildlife manager who will lose their job but, unless you drain all of Florida and pave a mile swath around the gulf and the Atlantic gators will be there.

          200 people slam their car into a deer and die in the US every year. Good luck draining and paving over every last inch of nature.

          1. Pretty much this.

            If our response to any animal (or plant, why not?) that causes the death of a person, is to exterminate that species, we’re going to have to do a lot of killing.

            Bears? Gone.

            Mountain lions? Gone.

            Alligators? Gone.

            Deer? Gone.

            Elk? Gone.

            Moose? Gone.

            Rattlesnakes? Gone.

            Etc. etc.

            1. You forgot to mention ISIS

            2. If our response to any animal (or plant, why not?) that causes the death of a person, is to exterminate that species, we’re going to have to do a lot of killing.

              And that is a problem why? Nothing personal against the gator but if it is him or us, he has got to go.

              And those things you list were hunted out for good reason. And deer and elk are a menace. Deer are totally out of control in this country and need to be hunted down to more reasonable numbers.

              1. Sharks
                Sail fish
                Jellyfish
                Bees
                Wasp
                Mosquitos
                Sea urchins.

                John, since 1940’s there has been like 2 dozen deaths. You would save more people by banning guns.

                1. It would be like trying to exterminate roaches. We’ve been trying.

                2. “John, since 1940’s there has been like 2 dozen deaths.”

                  TWO DOZEN DEATHS TO MANY!!

                  C’mon, guys, literally wrecking the ecological balance of the world is TOTALLY worth preventing a paltry number of deaths, most of which are completely avoidable if common sense was applied.

              2. And that is a problem why?

                I personally would rather live in a country where there were creatures other than humans.

                Your desire to live in a continent-wide “safe space” is not one I share.

                Oh, let’s not forget, we’d have to kill all the dogs and cats, too. People are killed by cows and pigs occasionally, so no more beef or pork, either.

              3. Deer are totally out of control in this country and need to be hunted down to more reasonable numbers.

                This is no less deranged than the people who bemoan each and every animal life insisting that we kill none and do our utmost to preserve all of them everywhere, as is.

                1. This is like how sci-fi or jrpg villains are born.

                  Living things cause suffering!! KILL ALL LIVING THINGS IS THE ONLY REASONABLE ANSWER TO ENDING SUFFERING IN THE WORLD!!

                  1. “The crime is life. The sentence is death.” -JD

            3. If an alligator attacked a lawyer, I know whom I’d be rooting for. If an alligator attacked a DHS apparatchik, I know whom I’d be rooting for.

              John is a two-fer.

          2. Alligators were nearly extinct just a few decades ago. You don’t have to pave the country to hunt them down again. Its not hard.

            1. It’s also not necessary. Gator attacks are rare, you are being emotionally reactive.

              1. So what. Which is more valuable one person or a thousand gators? Why should we tolerate any attacks unless the person was in the wilderness?

                1. Do you support banning peanuts? So what, some farmers lose money. Do you think farmers pay checks are more important than kids with peanut allergies?

                  1. Peanuts are not alligators. Banning peanuts means taking away your right to consume them. Hunting alligators means killing alligators. Whose rights am I restricting other than the alligators?

                    Your analogy is absurd.

                    1. People have businesses based on Eco tourism. People like to see alligators in the wild. Banning peanuts makes more sense than killing alligators because you consuming BP&J next to someone with a severe peanut allergy can kill them. The only way to be killed by an alligator is to go into their environment.

                    2. If they want echo tourism, fine. They can buy land and keep gators on them. But if a gator leaves that land and goes onto someone else’, the land owner should be able to kill it.

                      I am not saying the government should engage in some hunting campaign. I am saying that any land owner should be able to kill any gator he finds on his land. Had Disney been able to do that, they would have long ago cleaned the gators out of its lake and this would have never happened.

                      How is this not just a question of property rights?

                  2. Florida Hipster,

                    If a gator is on my land, why can’t I kill it? How can you support restricting my right to hunt gators ?

                    1. I have no problem with you hunting on your land. You called for an eradication of a species because someone might get killed every two or three years. It’s really not hard to avoid alligators. I feel bad for the family but they couldn’t have put their kid at more risk if they had tried. Small kids, splashing at waters edge at dusk. I’m sure they didn’t know better.

                    2. Then we don’t disagree. Disney should have been able to hunt the gators out of that lake. Had they been able to do that, this wouldn’t have happened.

                    3. Agreed. I thought you wanted a state wide eradication.

                    4. Maybe because he said he’d be fine with gator extinction if that brought even the slightest amount of safety to reducing the already super-low amount of gator based deaths.

                      But this is John we’re dealing with. He’s a man who believes if you don’t explicitely say something, you aren’t saying it (as long as you’re Trump or someone who agrees with him or anyone but a Reason author) so presumably John doesn’t actually MEAN he wants the elimination of all alligators when he says he’d be fine with the elimination of all alligators.

                      So when John says, word for word, “Nothing personal against the gator but if it is him or us, he has got to go.” that doesn’t mean the gators have to go, because he said “if it is him or us” and he never EXPLICITLY stated that it is a case that it is the gators or us. Remember, unless John or Trump explicitly words something in a way there can be NO DOUBT WHATSOEVER as to the meaning then they clearly didn’t actually mean the thing they implied!!

                    5. I feel bad for the family but they couldn’t have put their kid at more risk if they had tried. Small kids, splashing at waters edge at dusk. I’m sure they didn’t know better.

                      Yeah, I went down to Florida to stay with a boyfriend one time for the summer when I was in college.
                      It was definitely a surprise when I went out for a stroll along a tidal basin and walked right up to a couple of alligators hanging out there. Seems like everyone in Florida knows about gators and their habits, but it’s definitely not common knowledge in the rest of the country.

                      Unlike say, how to avoid bears and what to do when you encounter a bear, nobody really gets this cultural education about how to behave around gaters or gator-habitat type areas.

                    6. Seems like everyone in Florida knows about gators and their habits, but it’s definitely not common knowledge in the rest of the country.

                      Caution:Geese

                      If you’re visiting *and* you didn’t get the email *and* you choose to ignore the signs, and your life is threatened, be sure to file suit against John Yunger. Because convoluted owner/employer/employee/act-of-god/visitor-victim blame hierarchy.

                    7. If a gator is on my land, why can’t I kill it?

                      Because wildlife on your land isn’t your property.

                    8. Because wildlife on your land isn’t your property.

                      It most certainly is. The owner of the land has always owned the game there under common law. Why do you think the government had to power to change that and deprive people of their property?

                2. And to be fair, we don’t have to just kill the gators for no reason. They can be deep fried and turned into shoes/purses/etc.

                3. Interesting question, which is more valuable? And more importantly, why? The world is bursting at the seams with humans, is it really such a horror that nature culls the herd?

                  1. The world is bursting at the seams with humans, is it really such a horror that nature culls the herd?

                    You obviously have never had small children.

                4. thats easy- 1000 gators. hell, 2 gators are more important than 1 person. if its 1 gator its a tie.

                  any other questions before you started killing everything?

                5. Actually, probably 1000 gators. They are what is known as a keystone species, which means that they play an important role in maintaining the ecosystem. Because alligators are making a come back, they’re helping in the process for the Everglades to come back. Without the Everglades, the rest of Florida is screwed.

                  1. “Without the Everglades, the rest of Florida is screwed.”

                    That’s just a ridiculous statement. The Everglades don’t impact the Panhandle. Indeed, their impact on the north half of the state is minimal. You could drain the entire Everglades and concrete it over and the state would be fine.

                    I’m not saying you should. It’s an interesting ecologically diverse area. And it’s a rather cheap water filtration system. But it’s not the well spring of life.

        3. I’ve been to this resort; everyone talks all the time about the alligators in the lakes at the resort. It shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone…

    4. It wasn’t a beach, it was a small lagoon on a lake at a resort. I’ve been to that resort, maybe even stood next to that very lake. There are NO SWIMMING signs near all the lakes near the resorts. What’s more, there is no reason whatsoever to let your kid go in the water because there is a fucking pool meant especially for the kids at the resort.

      http://pitstopsforkids.com/wp-…..d-pool.jpg

      And there aren’t any “beaches” like you are implying (nice, sandy Florida beaches on the ocean is what comes to mind), the parts of the lakes that are easily accessible usually have a small grass verge that goes right down to the water–no sand in sight.

      How ’bout this? http://i.imgur.com/ZZjNrmW.jpg

      Too soon?

      1. “It wasn’t a beach, it was a small lagoon on a lake at a resort. ”

        Here’s an image of the area. There’s walkways leading down to a sandy area which goes into the water. It’s hard to claim that’s not a beach.

        http://a.abcnews.com/images/US…..x3_992.jpg

    5. I love how John comes rolling in and repeats every cliched, shallow piece of conventional thinking the article just complained about.

      1. I love how you think assertions without reasoning or facts are somehow self evident. If you can’t explain why your opinion of something is what it is, then no one has any reason to listen to you.

        1. Go to a busy zoo with tons of people and children crowding around. It’s not as straightforward as you think. I guess it’s too bad the boy at the zoo didn’t die too, huh?

    6. Trouble is, Fla. is full of gators. You hear frequently about their getting into swimming pools. Any large enough body of water in Fla. could have one, whether there’s a direct water cx between there & natural watercourses or not.

      When the death toll of the shootings stopped at 49, am I the only one who thought something like this would happen to pick off the straggler & make it an even 50? Also, anyone else thinking the LP cursed Orlando?

      1. The thought hadn’t crossed my mind, but it was standing formless at the crosswalk waiting on the light to change.

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    8. John,

      Anybody of water that size in the Orlando area is going to have gators in it. Wade in it at your own expense. I mean at least have a clue about where you are. Sheesh…friggin’ clueless Yankee.

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  2. If you can believe it, even CNN managed to keep some semblance of sanity, running a chart showing that cows, dogs, and even venomous spiders kill more humans than alligators do.

    How does that compare to incidents per contact-hour? People specked a fuckton more time around cows, dogs, and spiders than gators. In fact, outside of gator farmers and a handful of backwoods folk, most people are not spending substantial amounts of time around gators.

    1. Here there are alligators everywhere. In canals, lakes, rivers, retention ponds and golf courses. I have sympathy for the family from Nebraska because they probably thought the alligators would only be in the wild areas, not in the city or resorts.

      1. In florida.

        Cows dogs and poisonous spiders range throughout the country.

        1. Cows dogs and poisonous spiders range throughout the country.

          Jesus. *locks door*

  3. #BringBackOurGators

  4. The Child’s family will receive $50 Million dollars while Harambe’s family will get peanuts.

    1. The Child’s family will receive $50 Million dollars while Harambe’s family will get peanuts.

      Peanuts? Not even bananas? Damn, that’s cold.

  5. Also, even as the story broke, we heard that the father desperately tried to open the alligator’s jaws and couldn’t.

    Jesus fuck. I can’t imagine a scene like that. Don’t even want to.

    More reason to carry a gun.

  6. It has more to do with the perception of gorillas as endangered, special and closely related. People don’t anthropomorphize gators that much.

    1. *rising tone*

      What about Albert, the UF mascot?

      1. Shoot on sight

        1. Go Gators!

      2. Makes good Tiger chow, War Eagle!

    2. I think it has a lot to do with the environment. At the zoo you’re going to specifically look at animals, you expect to be protected from them. In Florida/at Disney you’re going for other reasons; gators/spiders/etc are part of the environment, but not the attraction. There’s a reasonable understanding that they are not a part of the attraction that should be under control.

      1. It’s a Disney Resort. You expect them to attend to *every* *detail* of the environment.
        I’m surprised they don’t have gator killing underwater robots roaming the lakes.

        1. News flash: the dirty corporate secret of Disney. They kill hundreds of innocent alligators every year, even though alligators attacks are real.

          Cut to heavily edited clip of Disney representatives

          1. it does make me feel better to think that Disney makes every effort to kill any gator that happens to wander into their territory, but this one just happened to slip through.

            1. Islamic alligator.

            2. Well, this one, plus the four others they killed right after the incident.

  7. 1) Disinterest is your friend.

    2) In neither case is there craven indifference within the interested parties.

  8. Mother Nature is indifferent to you, news at 11.

    1. Also, crocodile tears not so sweet.

  9. People are claiming the internet outrage is racist. Gator Boy white, no investigation of the family. Gorilla Boy black

    1. I thought Harambe was a metaphor for the treatment of young black men.

    2. Most people assumed the kid was white in the beginning and they were still getting shit for it. And what about the white kid that got torn apart by wild dogs like three years ago? Those parents got lots of shit and very little media attention, is it racist that people didn’t seem to give a shit about the white kid while the black family got lots of coverage?

  10. My family went down there when I was 8, I got sunstroke and stung by a stingray. In retrospect I definitely think I got off easy.

    Vacationing is just weird. People go to expect to relax and have fun, even though they’re exposing themselves to all of these unknown dangers for no good reason. It’s like playing the lottery, if you win then you’re just out of a bunch of money. If you lose you get bodily injury or death.

    1. Well, a pretty terrible lottery

    2. When is a vacation really ever relaxing? I find it more stressful than not.

      +1 stay-cation

      1. No shit. Everyone else in the family trying to drag you to attractions. Driving around and waiting in lines for the better part of the day.

        How about we just drink beers and chill instead?

      2. Our beach house is on the “Forgotten Coast” between Apalachicola and Port St. Joe. Dead between. There’s a raw bar that sells beer and oysters, and there is a tiki-bar/liquor store/bodega within 15 minutes of us. Other than that, nothing. The “attractions” are miles of nearly empty white beach, an air conditioned house to nap in, and some flats to put a boat into a try to catch redfish. Usually I don’t bother with the boat. That’s how you fucking vacation.

        1. +1 Indian Pass Raw Bar. I love that area so much that we got married on Cape San Blas.

          And to echo every other person who has once lived in Florida: Gators are everywhere and overall pretty harmless. And who would want to swim in a nasty Central Florida pond anyway? Gators or not it’s just muddy brown water.

  11. This is an easy one: Gorillas are cuddly and cute, and HOW DARE ONE DIE BECAUSE OF YOU! Meanwhile, alligators are gross, scary things and can be killed by the dozens, and no one cares.

    Why do you think the polar bearz!!1! get so much pub?

    1. Gators are cute, always smiling, though not as cutely as crocs. Seriously, gorillas look like blas?, slightly annoyed businesspeople, while gators, crocs, & caymen look like mischievous, gay children. A gorilla looks like it’s about to say, “Yeah? What are you looking at, buddy?” Gators, crocs, & caymen look like they’re about to nudge your elbow & say, “Psst! Have you heard the one about…?”

    2. The gorilla would show you pix of the family, posed stiffly. The gator would show you porn.

  12. And there’s even the question of species-ism: Gorillas look like us. Alligators don’t.

    I have to think Mr. Lizard is penning a very terse response right now.

    1. “I have to think Mr. Lizard is penning a very terse response right now.”

      Well yes, but to his Gator brethren. He’s quite annoyed about them revealing the hidden agenda before the take over is complete.

  13. “The similarity here is that if there’s any entity we love to blame more than moms, it’s corporate America.”

    Blame Disney First!

    I am a Florida resident and we’ve had a running joke for years that there should be a sign at the border reading “Welcome to Florida. Enjoy the orange juice. Alligators May Be Present. Residents Are Armed.” I have been to WDW dozens of times and stayed at most of their resorts, including those around the Seven Seas Lagoon. The areas are marked no swimming and there is active discouragement of water play on these “beaches”. They are just little sandy areas where one can sit on a lounge, watch the fireworks, etc. I can only assume that by my next visit there will be a three-foot high titanium fence around the lake perimeter. How scenic!

    The first time I was at Disney I remember becoming aware of the near invisibility of their security and how much it contributed to the illusion compared to the “real world”. Post 9/11, that began to change. After the anthrax attacks later that year (aside: I drove by the AMI building daily at the time, now it’s a golf course now) the last white powder soap dispensers I knew to exist were removed from Tomorrowland. Now it’s metal detectors at the gate and uniformed deputies wandering around the resort. I look forward to each visit less and less. I can’t blame Disney for assuaging the public’s fears and covering their mouse tail, but once the escapism wears thin enough, I suppose I will just quit going.

  14. Events like this are just so horrifying. I couldn’t blame the mother in the gorrilla case either. Another difference is that gorrillas are endangered, whereas alligators are not.

    Only comment on the dad is, I would not have let go of that gator for my life. I would have held onto it and dragged it back to shore, even if I couldn’t open it’s mouth. Heck, i’m sure he tried to do that, if he could have.

    Stuff like this I just don’t even want to hear about. Anything involving small children being killed or harmed should come with a trigger warning.

    1. We’re just being reminded of what life was like a couple hundred years ago, when you had 12 kids so 4 might make it to adulthood.

      1. Except a couple hundred years ago you would’ve had at least one musket, probably more than one knife, and probably an axe.

        Also, you probably would’ve gotten the ‘Gators live in Florida and eat children.’ message before finding yourself actually in Florida, especially if you were walking around without knives and sidearms.

      2. That isn’t why people had 12 kids. They had a lot of kids because they liked screwing (or at least the men did) and being fruitful and multiplying according to The Lord’s Plan was considered the only moral excuse for this “sinful pleasure”. That’s also why birth control was outlawed for many years and why condoms were sold for the prevention of disease rather than pregnancy.

    2. Humans are the ultimate invasive species. If you don’t want to be eaten by nature it’s best not to go where nature can eat you.

      1. I’m in favor of the proposal to ban florida.

        1. If we had keep New Yorkers out, the gay club wouldn’t have gotten shot up, so I’m in favor of a ban as well.

          1. I’m in favor of this because the New Yorkers are always driving through the mid-atlantic to get back and forth.

      2. Or if you go there, come there well armed.

    3. Heck, i’m sure he tried to do that, if he could have.

      Depends on how big the gator is.

      1. Big enough to eat a two-year-old, so I’m guessing the father had no chance against it.

        1. I haven’t read the gory details but since they found the body, the gator may not have been big enough to eat the child, and was planning to make a two-week-long meal out of him.

          1. I was being a bit facetious, but only a bit. I’d guess the kid to weigh in around 30 lbs. The gator got a bite solid enough that the father couldn’t free the child, so I’d be willing to bet at least 6′ long. Which is large enough that an untrained man isn’t going to make it do anything it doesn’t want to do.

            1. *insert joke about your standard millennial male in skinny jeans and ironic beard being the definition of untrained*

            2. If it had been me, I would have instantly thought of poking it in the eyes instead of trying to pry it’s jaw loose. Going for the eyes is generally a better bet if your enemy is stronger than you. I don’t believe in rules. Also bashing it’s head with a rock or any thing nearby if I could get my hands on it.

              1. Yeah, finding something to bash it’s head might be tricky when you have seconds before you watch your 2-yr old slip below the murky waters. I don’t fault anyone in this situation, but I do kind of wonder why no one ran in to help the father. I’m hoping that no one realized what was going on before it was too late or were simply too far away, but if anyone (especially fighting aged men OR women) saw what what was going on, were within sprinting range and just stood there, mouths agape, then fuck them.

                It’s possible if not likely that the father couldn’t take down the alligator, but I’ll bet you two or more people could.

              2. You’ve clearly never seen a real alligator.

              3. Gators can retract their eyes, so that’s a no go.

              4. Actually you are supposed to shove your fist into its mouth to make it swallow water.

              5. Yeah, finding a rock to bash with is a problem… we mostly have sand, sand, and a little bit of sand. Rocks are like a novelty item. Gators though, they’re everywhere. If you live here, you just assume there are gators, you don’t wonder if there are. Much better strategy.

            3. What Sparky said. Those things are monsters. Unless you are armed, unless you are very well trained and very brave, you don’t stand a chance against one.

            4. What Sparky said. Those things are monsters. Unless you are armed, unless you are very well trained and very brave, you don’t stand a chance against one.

          2. Ptooey, clothes! Sending this back to the kitchen.

        2. I heard somewhere between 4 and 7 feet.
          So basically, anywhere between the strength of Tyrion Lannister and Mike Tyson.

          1. Just a note, Mike Tyson would have zero chance against a 7′ gator. I mean absolutely none whatsoever. He would make a nice meal though, I’m sure.

            1. Really? So what’s with all the Australian guys with Bowie knives fighting crocodiles which are orders of magnitude larger and more aggressive then alligators.

              Or have I seen too many movies?

  15. I’m not sure I agree that “moms” are a favorite target in the “you go girl” era.

    1. Moms are women who have betrayed their sex by procreating with a male.

  16. Racism!

    duh

  17. Thanks for the hat tip, Lenore! I said it first yesterday.

    Anyway, sounds like it’s time to unleash Operation John: Destroy All Gators.

  18. What an ignorant article. An utterly false comparison between two very different events.

    One, we have a mom losing track of her child in an area with known hazards, resulting in a crisis that ends in the shooting of an endangered species. Child is fine.
    Two, we have a family perhaps not paying adequate attention to unknown risks, but almost know one would have expected the ultimate risk, and resulting in the death of the child.

    Sympathy for the latter and disgust at the former are expected reactions. The racism card is bullshit. Stupid proggy nonsense, Lenore.

    1. Oh noes! Retard calls someone ignorant, irony?

      1. Does that stick up your ass hurt at all? Or are you just used to it at this point?

        1. Ok, this is definitely irony. I’d still like a ruling on the other.

  19. The question is why.

    Hey, I’m proud to say that my asshole-ishness is consistent. I was the only one on the internet… the ONLY one who suggested the parents of the alligator tragedy couldn’t read.

    1. Well, Nebraska is in flyover, Bible Belt, crazy hick territory. It’s entirely possible that their Jesus school didn’t provide them any book learnin.

      1. Au contraire, their bible belt school was the ONLY school providing them book-learnin’, which makes it racist.

      2. Speaking of crazy hick territory, you’ve obviously never been to certain parts of rural Florida.

    2. Having worked in retail businesses much of my adult life, I know first hand that illiteracy is FAR more common in the US than most people would imagine. Ask anyone who has worked in a small retail store how often they have to read labels and instructions to customers who “forgot their glasses”, and how useless large and obvious signs can be.

      1. illiterate in 2 languages I bet

  20. Gosh, what could the difference be? Oh, right, alligators are nowhere near as rare, endangered, or valuable as gorillas, nor are they anywhere near as close to humans. In addition, the mother in the gorilla attack was arguably negligent, while the parents in the alligator attack were not.

    1. Yes, it’s the difference in the situation. The zoo is an artificial environment specifically designed to keep captive animals separated from the public. One must actively circumvent the measures taken by the zoo to maintain that separation in order for any zoo animal to become a threat?or, negligently allow a child who doesn’t know better to do so. In the Florida case, it was an attack by a wild animal in a relatively uncontrolled outdoor area, against people from elsewhere who can be forgiven for not foreseeing the potential danger. They didn’t have to allow their child to do anything extraordinary or flagrantly wrong in order for the tragedy to happen.

      1. Not to be a dick, but to be a dick, Disney may have some liability here if their ‘no swimming’ sign didn’t include a warning about the possible presence of alligators.

        1. And the sign are easily purchased.

          http://www.mysafetysign.com/al…..ning-signs

          1. I like Florida Wheelchair Man rolling into alligator mouth.

        2. Some legal liability, yes. My point was about the differing reactions from the public.

        3. Media reports that there was only 1 known alligator attack in 35 years in seven-seas lagoon and that was for a person swimming before they banned it. And how many people have passed through that area?
          Difficult to see justification for putting up a sign for something that is so rare as to be a non-existent risk.

        4. Jesus Christ, should they also post about sand being inedible, leeches causing unspecified injuries, dew covered grass being slippery…etc, etc. How many fucking signs is enough? The world has numerous hazards, including ignorance of local hazards. I feel sorry for them, but it’s not been kept secret from the world at large that we have alligators in Florida. What we also have is more than enough frigging signs everyplace. Anyone ever heard of being responsible for yourself and your kids. This was a tragic event, not the beginning of the gator apocalypse. Add it to the existing signs, the next kid will die from a water moccasin bite, and they’ll be calling for signs about that too. You have to be on the lookout for shit. sometimes, shit happens anyways. Even with fucking signs everywhere. Probably because there are so many signs people quit reading any of them.

  21. I had a teacher in college who said that Socrates’ answer to the question – What is justice? – in The Republic is: “mind your own business.” Well, people have never minded their own business, but the internet makes it especially easy not to. The connection between justice and “live and let live” remains, though. When something is wrong in human social groups, it is usually because people do not follow this principle.

    One rule that is clear and easy to follow: do not participate in mobs!

  22. My take:

    This falls into the “sometimes shit just happens” bucket. Neither the parents nor Disney did anything terribly wrong. Could Disney have had different signs? Sure. Would they have made any difference? Who know? Could the parents have been more cautious? Of course. Would we want them to? Probably not, actually, given the support for free range parenting around here.

    1. If more kids were under the regimen of free-range parenting, that 2 yr old would have shot the gator’s eyes out with his Ruger 10/22 rifle.

  23. Okay. So this is the article that finally gets me to jump into the daily bar room brawl at the wretched hive of scum and villainy that is the Reason comment section? Fine! Fuck it. I’ve been a Watercraft Operator with Disney for several years now and I was on the fucking Lagoon when the whole thing went down. So believe me when I say this: Most people from out of Florida don’t know jack shit about how fucking dangerous the gawd damn wildlife can be! I get asked all the damn time if there’s any gators in the water and they always think that I’m joking! “LOL! Silly Florida Man is trying to put one over on us slick New Yorkers! LOL!” I get don’t know how many fucking times I have had to scream at some stupid California shit to keep their spray tan hands inside the damn boat! Gators are just one part of the threat matrix at the Lagoon and Lake. Snakes are everywhere and that includes the Cotton Mouth which is not only poisonous but real fucking aggressive. Both snapping and alligator turtles constantly pop up out of nowhere. The dear are completely unafraid after generations of living there and rutting bucks will attack out of the damn blue like horny ninjas. Fucking coyotes roam around the shoreline and even the parking lots. And to top it all off, wild boars have started to move into the area!

    1. Anyways. My point is that most guests never see the wildlife up close because we’re pretty good at handling them. There are at least a dozen water taxis on the water at anytime and during the day we have Lake Patrol keeping a close eye on the guests too. Any dangerous animals that are spotted get reported immediately and the Animal Kingdom has a team of hunters and trappers on site standing by to chase after them. You can spot them by the Steve Irwin costumes they wear. As for why we don’t have beware of gator signs? Simple. We used to back in the day, but the retards thought that the signs were some kind of Florida joke!

      1. “We used to back in the day, but the retards thought that the signs were some kind of Florida joke!”

        Hopefully after this sad event, the rest of America will take such signage seriously.

        As for the wild boar, I think we can all agree that these should be hunted and served up in Florida’s best restaurants.

        1. They’re more like feral pigs than wild boar.

        2. Fuddrucker’s used to serve boar burgers down here and I pretty much stopped going after they discontinued them. I do have plans to get my hands on some gator tail later tonight!

          1. I’m horny as shit. Maybe some gator tail is exactly what I need.

      2. Got bear? Although at Disney prices and with the wait, you probably wouldn’t get many.

        For that matter, could get hit by lightning.

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  25. Except “Gorilla Mom Rage” came mostly from Leftists who value animal lives more than humans, and it died out as soon as they found out the family wasn’t white.

    The exact opposite is now happening re: the Gator
    http://heatst.com/culture-wars…..sm_fb_post

    1. Oh my god that is fucking disgusting. What a piece of shit.

  26. I mean it is a big body of water in FL, there’s gonna be gators. I’ve been to the Grand Floridian. I would not walk the beach there. But then I’m not a dumbass Yankee either.

  27. “The question is why.”

    The answer is context.

    In one scenario you have a parents letting a child find their way into an enclosure with an animal. In the other you have an animal stalking and snatching a child from its parents.

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  28. The only people who are happy about this is Cincinnati Zoo; “We told ya wildlife is WILDlife!”

  29. Here are the differences:
    The gator is seen as the intruder – right or wrong, people see it was trespassing on Disney property. The gorilla was in his habitat where he lives, the boy was the unwelcome intruder.

    People love gators as much as they love snakes, whereas Gorillas are loved as much as dogs and cats.

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  31. It’s all the same. It’s called “Darwinism”. In the Gorilla case, the parents should have to pay the cost of replacing the Gorilla. In the gator case, they should pay the cost of the search. And that’s it. No reason to be angry about people who shorten their own genetic line through failure to think. It’s natural selection.

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  33. I think in this climate-controlled, totally protected space humans have carved out for themselves, most have forgotten how dangerous and uncontrollable nature really is. As someone who was born and raised in the South, I knew from an early age to watch out for alligators and snakes in ANY body of water, including backyard pools. If they see somewhere they want to be, by golly, they are determined to investigate this potential new home. So fencing is not always effective against a creature several 100 pounds and pretty much solid muscle.
    I don’t blame either set of parents. It was a very tragic accident both times. Kids can slip away in a split second.
    That being said, it’s sad how many people forget Mother Nature is not to be taken lightly. Every single year we have several deaths as soon as beach season arrives due to people ignoring the warning signs at the beach and getting caught in rip currents and drowning. Every single year, despite signs and media coverage.

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  35. Maybe a little off topic, but I still say the parents tossed the kid to the alligator on purpose.

  36. Except that the resort already had had one incident of a family being chased by an alligator on a beach.
    http://www.thewrap.com/alligat…..weeks-ago/

    Experience says that it could be repeated at any time as there is an alligataor that has lost is fear of humans.

    Add to it that they got the people on the beach by showing movies.

    At night, when alligators are hunting, they fill the beach with humans, knowing that there is at least one alligator tehre that has lost its fear of humans.

    They were playing with fire and they got burned.

  37. I grew up watching Disney cartoons in Korea and in the states. In Korea almost every kid had a collection of Disney books – Little Hiawatha, The small one, Jungle Book, Snow White, Scrooge Mcduck Christmas Carol, etc. By the early to mid 90’s animation (hand drawn) BELONGED to Disney. I would spend almost the whole day listening to the Beauty and the Beast and Lion King Soundtrack.

    Now I don’t know what to make of Disney. They churn out generic popcorn entertainment every year. “Frozen” is literally one of the worst things I’ve ever seen in my life. Their “adult friendly” 3D animation bores me to tears. Toy Story series was good.

    And it’s now a soldier for the progressive movement. This company is expanding aggressively in China, the least happiest place on earth, but they threaten states because they stand for bathroom privacy. They forced their outgoing workers to train their foreign investment. The Doctor Strange movie is a biggest movie sellout in recent memory (Shat on Tibet) and the Disney loving libs don’t say a single thing.

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    But then recognize that Disney sells that illusion, and that’s why there is anger directed at it.

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  45. I think people see a gorilla enclosure and naturally recognize it would be dangerous to be inside. Therefore we don’t imagine ourselves letting our child crawl inside the cage. Even by accident.

    Most people don’t understand that alligators are an inherent risk to ponds in Florida (and other Gulf States) so they imagine themselves falling prey to the same tragedy. Hence more sympathy.

    Meanwhile I am surprised that a kid got into a zoo enclosure, but would never let a small child play near alligator habitat. So, my sympathies are reversed on these stories.

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