Orlando Shooting

50 People Reported Killed in Attack on Orlando Gay Club (UPDATE: Shooter Declared Allegiance to ISIS in 911 call)

Latest numbers have 50 dead.

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Orlando
Jacob Langston/TNS/Newscom

News reports have between 20 to 50 killed in an attack on Pulse, a gay nightclub in Orlando, Florida. The most recent numbers have 50 dead, but as is typical, it will be some time before we know the reality of what happened, why, and how.

Here's the latest from The Daily Beast:

Some 50 people are dead and 53 are injured after a gunman attacked a gay club in Orlando, Florida early Sunday morning in the deadliest mass shooting in the United States since Sandy Hook.

Orlando Police Chief John Mina said the gunman was carrying an assault rifle, handgun, and what police called a "device." The gunman was killed by SWAT around 6 a.m. (one officer sustained an injury that is not life threatening). The gunman has not been publicaly identified, but two officials told CBS News he is Omar Mateen of Port Saint Lucie, Florida. An FBI agent told the press the mass murder is being investigated as an act of terrorism.

"This is an incident, as I see it, that we certainly classify as domestic terror incident," said Orange County Sheriff Jerry Demings in an earlier press conference.

Read more here.

Omar Mateen
Myspace

UPDATE: The father of the shooter has apologized for what has happened and said he witnessed his son previously get angry when he saw two men kissing in a restaurant in Miami.

UDPATE: FBI sources say that Mateen had been investigated before, and CNN is reporting that he may have "pledged allegiance" to the Islamic State. 

UPDATE: Mateen's ex-wife spoke to the Washington Post and said he used to beat her. They were married in 2009 and divorced in 2011. She says he didn't seem to have fallen under the sway of radical Islam at the time.

UPDATE: June is gay pride month and gay pride events are happening this weekend in West Hollywood. Police there this morning arrested a man with weapons and ammunition in his car, as well as an ingredient used to make pipe bombs. Read more here.

UDPATE: Sources are telling the media that Mateen called 911 right before the attack to declare allegiance to ISIS.

UPDATE: The Islamic State has claimed responsibility for the attack, though that doesn't mean the terrorist group actually coordinated it.

UPDATE: The City of Orlando has started identifying victims.

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  1. Port Saint Lucie, Florida

    This is going to be the mother of all Florida Man stories.

    1. Florida Man confines his gunshots to self-inflicted injuries.

      1. Indeed; A true Florida Man is one of those:

        “Florida Man high on meth, wearing nothing but cut-off jeans, tattoos, gerbils taped to his nipples, and a sunburn, attempted to rob a convenience by threatening the clerk with a dead stingray and a live chincilla. His plot was foiled by two kids who dumped Cheez Whiz in his path of escape…”

        I have noticed that the Florida Man Reddit is much less selective.

      2. Thanks for the excuse for a wry smile in the face of an otherwise terrible morning.

    2. Funny. No mention of Islam. Why is that? Doesn’t fit the narrative.

      1. Neither is any mention of that in this Twitter feed, complete with fotos of the alleged shooter…

      2. This is what happens when gays force Muslims to bake Nazi cakes.

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  2. Some guy on NBC is industriously working his way through the “common sense gun safety” taking point checklist.

    I cannot help wondering how many of the victims were shot by SWATters.

    1. “common sense gun safety” taking point checklist

      A rather chilling (and much more accurate than, “talking,”) RC’z Law, Brooksie.

    2. I had not thought of that. Killing 50 people is not easy. I bet anything the SWAT killed its fair share. It is an insult to the military to call cops “militarized”. A military has fire discipline and occasionally has people who know how to shoot. Cops are more of an armed mob.

      1. And since I’m guessing both the bad guy and good guys were using 5.56, it’s going to be a challenging autopsy figuring out who blasted who.

        But really, if it’s a crowded nightclub, and the shooter has a good position, I don’t see that 50 dead in and of itself disqualifies the shithead from killing all of them himself.

        Good thing his devices didn’t detonate though.

        1. Thank God for that. The other thing is some of the people were likely trampled in the resulting panic or if they were wounded ended up being trampled because they couldn’t get out of the way. Its just fucking horrible.

        2. You can kill two hundred people in under a minute with a semiautomatic firearm, I hear.

          1. The cyclic rate of a firearm = same as deaths per min, duh

            1. Never let facts or logic stray in front of the narrative.

        3. I heard some .45 in the video.

          If it’s crowed enough, I’d imagine that he’d get rushed by everyone around him.

          Gay dudes are usually in pretty good shape.

      2. Irregulars have historically been used to maintain order in occupied territory while regulars were up at the front.

      3. Killing 50 people is not that easy

        The cops set up a perimeter and waited 3 hours before going in. The question that will not be answered is how many people were shot after that perimeter was established and how many people bled to death, that would not have except,for,the 3 hour delay.

        1. They waited three hours? My God these people are worthless cowards.

          1. Yep, and there’s at least one text message from someone inside saying that they were being ’round up and we’re going to be killed’. There is no doubt many others, will the media report them or try to cover it up. Also, how do we know that it was a single attacker?

            1. Imagine sitting in your house and some lunatic starts murdering people at a party going on at the house next door. Assuming you own a gun and have ammunition and some way to go over and try to stop it, what kind of a sick person could sit cowering in their home listening to people being murdered next door and not pick up your gun and go out and try and stop it? I can’t imagine what kind of a person does that.

              1. In America we call those people heroes in blue.

                1. In America we call those people heroes in blue.

                  Hey, I own blue shirts and firearms…

              2. A moment ago you and the mob here were blasting the cops for supposedly blasting away at the guy and killing innocent people.

                Now you are frothing at them because they didn’t?

          2. But they all got home safe. Except for one who got a minor scrape while running over a bicyclist.

    3. Let me guess: “This is why people on an arbitrary secret government list shouldn’t have rights.”

      1. Gingrich was on Fox earlier saying exactly that.

        1. Statists gonna State.

    4. In one of the videos I saw, the cops were mag dumping outside the club.

  3. How long until Obama weighs in? He’s probably polishing an executive order or two right now.

    1. And the internet commentariat weighs in with our usual everything-is-politics-herpaderpaderpa. Queue overweight-dork-in-mom’s-basement with a pithy “gun free zone” rant in 3….2….1….

      1. I’m in the *family room*, Eric. 😎

        What do *you* think he will do?

        1. I’m in the *family room*, Eric. 😎

          Is that the Hello Kitty room, or the room with your collection of decapitated doll heads?

      2. You’re right, Eric. Obama wouldn’t dare publicize a thing like this. Rich, how DARE you?

        1. I sorry.

          *** kicks pebble ***

      3. don’t let the reality that an Obama address has been scheduled trouble you

  4. They said the guy “appeared on the FBI’s radar” at some point. Meaning they tried to recruit him for some harebrained fake terror scheme, I suspect.

    1. He was too smart for that. Those FBI terror schemes only work on people with sub 70 IQs.

      1. So they recruit exclusively from the ranks of government employees?

  5. Muslim terrorist attack on a gay night club. The progressive stack is going to show cracks in its foundation over this one.

    1. Nah, they will focus on gun control, not the “why” of the attack.

      1. Judging from Facebook and twitter, that’s already the reaction.

        1. I also saw this reaction, which is… um…

          The next time someone cries oppression for having to bake a gay wedding cake or use the bathroom with a trans person, remember this moment.

          1. Because Muslims hate gays, everyone give up their guns and be forced to participate in gay weddings and shower with opposite sex transvestites. That makes total sense.

            1. But not Muslims, coincidentally.

            2. Won’t the shower wreck the cake?

              1. Resists urge to insert MacArthur Park joke…

          2. Not to play one up on you, but I got this one:

            We need to vote for the candidate that will bring us together.

            That from a serial pro Hillary supporter.

            1. We need to vote for the candidate that will bring us together.

              So, Cthulhu?

              1. I was thinking the guy from “Human Centipede”?

            2. the candidate that will bring us together.

              Radical muslims will surely respect a female leader, rather than someone with Orange Hair

            3. Giant Meteor 2016.

              1. Just make it quick.

              2. It’s SMOD. Sweet meteor of death

              3. Yup. Giant Meteor / Fiery Death 2016

            4. “”‘We need to vote for the candidate that will bring us together.””” and make our country great again?

              1. Almanian!/Cthulhu 2016…now more than ever.

          3. Officially it’ll turn out the guy start shooting because a trans person of color can’t get into the bathroom of their choice in this country.

      2. they will focus on gun control, not the “why” of the attack.

        Also = they will attack free speech as “contributing”.

    2. I was thinking the same thing, rudehost. It’s a freaking tragedy these people were killed. It’s time for the proggies to stop being so goddamn PC because ignoring reality gets people hurt.

  6. Will this be our “Adelaide Massacre”?

    Let the confiscations.commence.

    1. No. Our federal system is too entrenched and makes confiscation like what happened in Australia nearly impossible. And there are too many people who are single issue gun voters. No matter how much they lie and pretend this wasn’t Islamic terrorism and is all about guns, people know the truth. They couldn’t get gun control after Sandyhook, a case where some freak shoot a bunch of kids for no apparent reason. They sure as hell are not going to get it after a Muslim terrorist shoots up a gay club. They are pissing in the wind.

      1. We don’t know that Omar is a Muslim. He could be a closeted black homosexual with a serious identity crisis.

        1. Indeed, his father said religion had nothing to do with it.

          1. Well that settles it I guess.

            1. “He was a likable young man who was just turning his life around.”

              1. And then he bought a gun that seduced him into evil. Guns do that you know.

          2. Clearly it was Trump’s vile rhetoric that caused him to snap. In a way, he’s the first victim here. – / cosmoturds.

            1. What are you Shika’s ghost writer? Or have you hacked into her computer and are reading the column she is writing this morning?

              1. She’d also add something about how difficult it was for his parents to get citizenship in order to work so they couldn’t assimilate

        2. I read one headline that claimed he is a loyal Democrat.

    2. Look, if we just ban guns, then islamites will be nice and not kill everyone.

      1. It worked in France.

  7. Correction: “Port Arthur Massacre”

    1. i will make you a bet, support for gun control will go down after this. You watch. The media will have a round of angry butt hurt about America’s horrible obsession with guns, it won’t have any effect and the media will just stop talking about this.

      1. support for gun control will go down after this.

        “What will it take to whip you into line?”

        1. It went down after Sandyhook. I can’t imagine it won’t go down further after this. No matter how hard the media tries, it can’t seem to convince people that events that show how dangerous the world is means they should give up their best means of self defense. Americans are just crazy that way I guess.

          1. Maybe nationwide, but in blue or blue leaning states, it was the impetus, along with Bloomie’s billions for gun control that did pass. Unfortunately the gun grabbers have learned from the success of their opponents and while still making noise at the federal level, have been ratcheting wherever they can at the state/local level.

            1. The blue state laws are already insane. They can’t get much worse. And any gun control is DOA in the red states.

              1. Some (NY, CA) are but there are a number (CO, WA, OR come to mind) that have/had decent laws. That’s what Bloomie and the gun grabbers are targeting.

        2. ***support for gun control will go down after this***

          Well, yeah, the increasing likelihood that some Muslim may be shooting at you in the near future probably won’t make Americans eager to disarm themselves.

  8. If these murderous clowns “become radicalized by propaganda” why is the left’s response to crack down on guns rather than (presumably) the internet?

    1. Oh, i assure you… obama will propose that too

  9. Lack of gun control, homophobia and maybe the culture of the South. I expect only those talking points will dominate the news.

    1. The guy in Charleston was totally motivated to do that by the existence of the confederate battle flag. But the fact that this guy was Muslim is just a meaningless detail that only racists would think matters.

      1. Yes, sounds about right. If we’re lucky we may see a couple articles stating that is just more proof that even more Muslims need to be let into the US.

        I Just got back from Reykjavik last night, should have stayed until the election was over.

    2. Probably true. They will also focus on the fact the guy passed a Florida background check to be an Armed Security Officer, though I wonder if they will delve into the fuck up by the goobermint if this guy was supposedly flagged.

      There is already the move to deflect the Islamic angle, though I do note that the man’s parents are from Afghanistan and there is a noted subculture of Afghani boys who are forced to be effeminate and used/abused by older men.

      1. “They will also focus on the fact the guy passed a Florida background check to be an Armed Security Officer, though I wonder if they will delve into the fuck up by the goobermint if this guy was supposedly flagged.”

        Federal background checks needed! They’re clever, they’ll spin this into a pro-leviathan point beautifully.

        “though I do note that the man’s parents are from Afghanistan and there is a noted subculture of Afghani boys who are forced to be effeminate and used/abused by older men.”

        I doubt that’ll be brought up whether it’s pertinent in this case or not; pointing out any cultural clashing issues with the Islamic world is a no-no.

        1. “Boys are for pleasure, women for babies”

          /More than one Afghan

          *shakes head at memory*

      2. So next they’ll want to outlaw private security. Especially for night clubs.

    3. homophobia? I haven’t heard that word in quite a while

  10. If you have an issue with gays kissing in Miami, shouldn’t you be thinking about moving back to Afghanistan?

    1. Where they fuck little boys

    2. Why would he do that? Remember, this guy grew up with the world telling him how oppressed he was because he was a Muslim and how anyone who didn’t respect his beliefs and culture was a racist. Why should he go back to Afghanistan, after he has been told that it is up to everyone else to accommodate him?

    3. It’s weird. It’s like all the guys in prison who say they aren’t gay because any hole will do. I think they hate gays so much because they can’t deal with the idea that gay fantasies turn them on. It completely goes against a religion’s Purity of Thought shtick.

      1. The left believes if you confiscate all the guns then all gun violence will end.

        The Muslims believe if you eliminate all the gays all their homo erotic fantasies will disappear.

      2. Sodomizing goats isn’t homosexual activity, just ask Preet.

    4. moving back to Afghanistan

      He’s from NY.

      1. How do you grow up in NY and end up hating Miami gays?

        1. Have parents from Afghanistan?

        2. Ask any rando old Jew in Del Boca Vista. They’ll care less about the gay, more about the Miami.

        3. Ask any rando old Jew in Del Boca Vista. They’ll care less about the gay, more about the Miami.

          1. Or ask a squirrel.

            1. Does the squirrel have to be randy too?

      2. Fuckin’ Yankees. After Sesesh 2.0 we’re building a wall.

  11. Fucking people. Why? Just kill yourself assholes. Leave innocent people out of it.

    1. He thought of himself as being part of a bigger and greater cause. He was doing his part to cleanse the earth of injustice and create a new and better world. It is insane I know but that is how this shit works.

      1. So it’s politics without the middleman?

      2. Too many dicks in this world.

        1. Too many dicks in this world on the dance floor.

  12. Jes suit Charlie et Charlie.

    1. Jes suit

      Look, eddie, keep your religion out of this.

      1. 30 years since my last French class a few shots of sake in. Surprised if I even got close.

        1. you were actually making a good point in Esperanto, saying, “Follow the twins there”

          1. Nice lower abdomen tattoo.

  13. Probably ISIS. This is why we need to bomb Syria and Libya more – they are producing the propaganda that radicalizes these kids. Either that or more mental health facilities – there were probably red flags and early warning signs. And if all else fails, parents will need to start teaching their kids right and wrong.

    1. The problem is if this guy is anything like the assholes in California, he likely wasn’t nuts and was by any objective measure assimilated into society. The San Bernidino guy had a good job with the county. He wasn’t some drooling moron like the freak at Sandyhook or the ones in Charleston or Denver. And that makes what he did much more terrifying than the worst serial killer or nut going postal. There will always be psychotics but we can at least take comfort in knowing there will never be very many of them. But when otherwise sane and well adjusted people start committing horrific acts of evil in the name of an ideology, that is something much worse and more terrifying.

      1. He was a sociopath as this asshole no doubt is. Unfortunately they are not born with horns on their head

        1. His acts were insane to be sure. But they murdered how many millions of people in Soviet Russia? Someone had to pull the trigger or the lever in every one of those cases. I don’t think all of those people were strictly speaking sociopaths, though some certainly were. I think most of them were moral and rational people who had allowed their desire for meaning and to be a part of a larger cause to bring justice to the world become a rationalization to do horrible things. The people who did the dirty work in those cases weren’t delusional weirdos getting their thrills murdering people. They were completely earnest and committing people convinced they were advancing the cause of good.

          Real evil is a hundred times more scary and depressing than fictional evil.

          1. But fictional evil is good for a lot more laughs.

      2. That’s another reason Americans tend to be anti-ideology.

        1. Convictions make convicts.

    2. Or he could have been addicted to Afghani opium.

    3. OK, then bomb Syria, Libya, and mental health facilities more.

  14. “Of course it’s terrorism. If it’s terrorism, we go to unlimited overtime. Jackpot!”

    1. It’s even worse. HATE CRIME terrorism!

      1. No, can’t be. Muslims, as Marginalized People, are not capable of committing hate crimes.

  15. If Trump is at all serious about this campaign, he’ll come out swinging about the need for America to protect its minorities from the Islamic threat to liberty.

    Instead, he’ll probably voice some ham-handed remarks about sodomites.

    (Yes, yes, I’m that guy.)

    1. Trump isn’t a SOCON and has never said anything against gays that I know of. But the Progs never let the facts get in the way of what the narrative says should be the truth.

      1. The guy is so garbled and inarticulate he’d try commending the gay community and end up blaming them for the atrocity.

        1. “I own a lot of gay nightclubs! Wonderful people. My cousin was a gay, but he became normal again after a while. Terrible tragedy! Still, people do complain about the noise.”

          1. I hate that I laughed at that.

          2. You forgot the “Sad!”

        2. I don’t think he is garbled at all. He is anything but and that is why the media, who make their living lying and speaking half truths, hate his guts.

          1. I guess if scattershot redundancy sprinkled with half finished thoughts and non-sequiturs is ‘anything but garbled’ then you are correct.

            1. John is firmly on the Trump train, and I mean that in the gayest sense possible.

              1. Like all good cosmotarians you consider “gay” to be an insult. You guys are just inclusive and tolerant that way.

            2. I am going to guess and say you have never listened to a single thing he has said and get your opinions about it from reading Peter Suderman and the Huffpost. I am sure that will work out well for you.

              1. No, I consider straight men lining up for a good pounding to be humorous. When gay men do it, that’s just their thing.

              2. John, because I hate myself I listen to Breitbart News Daily daily. I have heard plenty of Trumps’ ramblings. Also I get my opinions from Musicians and Movie stars just like everyone else.

                1. You have never listened to him. But you know exactly what he says. Got it.

                  1. You do understand that I am saying that I have heard him plenty of times. Breitbart is Trumps satellite radio cheerleading squad.

                    1. Either you have listened to him or you haven’t. Turn on the TV and listen to one of his speeches sometime. They are not garbled at all. I don’t read any of the sources you seem to cling to so can’t vouch for their accuracy. Try listening for yourself sometime.

                    2. As I have smugly expressed before. I do not even own a television. I am not sure how hearing his soundbites,speeches, and interviews over and over again on a very Trump friendly source doesn’t count as listening for myself but I’ll endeavor to do better.

        3. Inarticulate, yes. But so is Obama whenever he’s off the ‘prompter.

          I suspect that many people get Trumps’s gist very well, so not garbled at all, not at all.

          It’s just that he does not speak in the media/academia approved style. Time was this wasn’t much of an issue, but given the enforced monoculture that presently dominates, Trump’s blustering style is simply not of their liking.

    2. He’s never expressed any anti- gay sentiment and in fact has used ISISs murdering gays in isistopia as a justification for bombing the savages.

      So the only basis for your comment is irrational hatred.

  16. Completely OT just in case this gets too heavy. But it’s delicious.
    http://www.powerlineblog.com/a…..decade.php

    1. Ron had a whole article about this on Fri (? last week at least)

      i’m quite sure the only people making note of the correction are “extreme right wing” publications like Reason.

      1. I’m way out of it tonight. Time for bed for me. Don’t waste your whole Sunday dwelling on this killer. 🙂

        1. oyasumi

  17. So, will it be the FBI that shit the bed on this one or local law enforcement? B cause I can all but assure you this guy was on somebody’s radar and didn’t follow up out of political correctness.

    Also, how,fucking long did the cops wait until going in? Four or five hours in a hostage situation with a shitload of dead bodies all over the place? did thy think it made more sense to stand down and negotiate with someone that had already killed a shitload of people than to storm in immediately before the psycho could establish a position? They’re supposed to go in harms way, they get paid to go in harms way, they brag on going in harms way. But when the rubber hit the road, they stood around for hours while this fucker killed more and more people.

    1. The FBI, who radicalized the guy in a sting effort, and the DEA, who, in a separate operation, provided him with weapons tied to Fast & Furious.

    2. You can rest assured that if it had been Cisshitlords, they would’ve rushed right in.

    3. So, will it be the FBI that shit the bed on this one or local law enforcement? B cause I can all but assure you this guy was on somebody’s radar and didn’t follow up out of political correctness.

      +2 Tsarnaev brothers

      1. Oh the FBI apparently already fucked up and said this guy had been on somebody’s radar. They can’t really walk that one back without raising eyebrows.

        1. But look how long they’ve been saying Hillary’s on their radar.

          1. Too bad that they can’t get a target lock because of the chaff.

    4. Many people with serious but not immediately lethal wounds died in the hours that the police dithered.

    5. “The FBI was so busy trying to glassceiling Hillary with all this email nonsense that they let 50 gays be murdered. Support The Gays, Vote Hillary 2016.”

  18. Waited three hours before they went in. Damn pigs are cowards. If it is a 15-1 drug warrant being served at 4:00 am, they ain’t gonna have anything to do with an actual shooter. fucking cowards.

    1. My wife, the rare unicorn that is a libertarian woman, said that someone should’ve stayed a rumor that the shooter had a joint, because SWAT would have busted down the doors immediately.

      1. Raw. Milk.

  19. UPDATE: The father of the shooter has apologized for what has happened and said he witnessed his son previously get angry when he saw two men kissing in a restaurant in Miami.

    They were entirely too gay.

  20. Obama, later today: “Let me be clear: weapons of war have no place on our streets in America. No one should feel unsafe while going out to have a good time with friends and loved ones. It seems to be me that we can make ourselves safer and respect the gun-rights of law-abiding American citizens by restricting the purchase of firearms to those we suspect of harboring terrorist motives. We should not and cannot allow a single advocacy group hold such sway over members of Congress that we cannot pass even the most common-sense gun safety laws.”

    1. You know it is a federal crime to hack into Obama’s teleprompter and read what his speech writers are putting into it this morning? Doing it was certainly brave of you, but you should be careful.

    2. What about on the streets of Yalta?

      1. Kreml is lost; why would Obumbles (or Reason, FTM) care?

        1. Listen, if I can vacation on the Black Sea without worrying about some Ruski sympathist sticking his rifle in my bum, this isn’t the country I grew up in.

    3. Needs more ummms and uhhhhhhhs and “folks”‘s. And a few fake tears mixed in for effect.

    4. That’s frighteningly perfect. I will pray to Yahweh for the redemption of your soul.

  21. “an ideological motivated attack.” is the new euphemism for Islamic Terror Attack. I heard this new term on the mainstream media outlets all morning. Why can’t Liberal/Progressives admit that the problem is the fundamentals of Islam not fundamentalism.

    1. Because it’s racist to criticize Islam.

      1. Yep. Republicans are all Hitler, but actual ragingly anti semetic violent, misogynist followers of Islam are misunderstood and have legitimate grievances.

        Peaceful political enemies are the devil, violent fucks executing people according to their religion have no bearing on the acceptability of said religion.

        1. You got it.

        2. In defense of Muslims, they lack agency. If we got rid of all guns, they would not,use them to commit mass killings, beheadings, burnings at the stake and ritualized rape of non-Muslim women they’ve captured.

          Because guns are the problem, not a barbaric religion of hate and total submission.

          1. /progressive

            1. Did your husband give you permission to speak? And you didn’t drive over here, did you?

    2. The lengths to which the news media will go to suggest that “Islam isn’t really to blame” reached its apex after the San Berdoo shooting.

      I’ve kept this cover-page handy to remind myself the lengths to which the NYT will go to pump a bullshit narrative

      (*in particular, note the date at which their ‘casualties of terror acts’ begins)

      1. The biggest part of the San Bernadino story was that the neighbors were suspicious of their activities but did report it because they didn’t want to be labeled Islamophobic. That got people killed, the media buried the story.

        1. It’s the same mind-warping we see in Europe: “Sure, we were raped my Muslim refugees, but we didn’t report it because we didn’t want to discriminate against them.”

          1. Or “we didn’t prosecute them because their beliefs are misunderstood. The solution is for non-Muslim women to avoid areas where refugees live and congregate.”

            1. I see both of you have been to Western Europe in the last few weeks; “Blaming the Victim,” and the every popular, “It’s MY fault because White Privilege and Euro-Colonialism…” is very popular here with the Tony types.

              Even the Super Lefty UKRs embrace that kind of lunacy, except when it involves Russkij Separatist Types.

      2. I remember that infographic. If you read between the lines, THEY REALLY FUCKED UP.

        1. Note the sidebar = “Do Motives Really Matter“?

          they throw in ‘misogyny and racism’ as other isms which OBVIOUSLY have a similar body count to ‘islamism’ (see the chart?), so aren’t they all the same really?

          Remember the name “”Arie Perliger””

          He’s the guy who produced the report w/ the data set that the left uses to claim that ‘Right Wing terror’ kills just as many people as Islamic extremism,etc.

          he does this by saying that *every single ‘racially motivated’ criminal attack* that has ever occurred… is in fact an act of Terrorism. Likewise every gay bashing, or abortion clinic vandalism, etc. Add them all up, and voila! its the same as blowing up the twin-towers.

          The fact that 95% of the ‘right wing terror attacks’ are only 1-1 (perpetrator/victim) is danced around as ‘interesting but not relevant’ to the motivation for the act.

          Anyhoo, that dude is the left’s favorite expert on terror these days. That graph on the NYT front page comes from his material, and then they got him to comment on the subject without disclosing that he’s in fact the source of the argument in the first place. like he’s just some 3rd party “expert”, validating his own theory.

          1. That graph (which oh so conveniently starts in 2002) tells me that 1% of the population is responsible for 50% of the terror attacks in this country.

            Whoops! I don’t think that’s what they were going for.

            1. That requires having an IQ at least 2 standard deviations higher than the average NYT reader/writer.

              They look and point their fingers and go, “SEE! THE SAME

              its like the Piaget ‘conservation of mass/volume/number’ trick that shows development of childhood brains.*

              the difference being that the NYT audience has tricked themselves into always seeing the “desired answer” on cue, and ignoring the obvious implications which undermine it.

              *(re: the cool thing about the Piaget test is that kids don’t need to be “taught” the principle of conserved-mass/volume; at a certain age the brain develops the ability to instantly comprehend it)

      3. The lengths to which the news media will go to suggest that “Islam isn’t really to blame”

        Islam isn’t to blame. The shooter is to blame.

        Claiming Islam is responsible for the acts of an individual is as mendacious as claiming guns are responsible for mass murders.

        The only person responsible is the guy who made the decision to pull the trigger and kill innocent people.

        What Made him do it? Who fucking cares? The guy had a screw loose. If it wasn’t guns or religion that put the idea in his fucked up head, it woulda been his cat or a Pepsi commercial.

        Fucking politics…never let a tragedy go to waste.

        1. Islam isn’t to blame. The shooter is to blame.

          So communism isn’t to blame for the terror? Fascism isn’t to blame for the Holocaust? Really? If ideology and religion are never responsible for people who commit acts of evil in their name, then why do we ever worry about trying to convince anyone of anything?

          What is so annoying here is not that what you are saying is wrong, though it is. It is that you don’t believe it. You are just pretending to believe it because you dislike your political enemies more than you dislike Muslims. And somehow you think no one is going to notice this. Wrong answer.

        2. What Made him do it? Who fucking cares? The guy had a screw loose.

          Righty tighty, lefty loosey.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBlwxqqAprQ

        3. That’s funny frankie – you’re the one constantly waving Nolan charts which suggest that a person’s ideological bias is supposed to be predictive of policy outcomes and the denominator of political acceptability.

          Yet when it comes to little details like “the frequency with which Muslims massacre innocents in the name of god”, you suddenly say their kooky ideology has nothing to do with it.

          1. The only thing funny, gilly, is your feeble attempt to justify your bigotry.

            I use the Nolan Chart to quantify the opinions of the individuals I’d have represent me in government.

            You’d use your “statistics” to what…deny rights to entire groups of people based upon the actions of a few within those groups? If so, you CLEARLY hold the moral high ground.

            Let’s say their religion is causal in “making” nut jobs commit atrocities. What do you propose we do about it? Ban a religion? Kill them? What is it you want your government to do?

            1. And what bigotry have i demonstrated?

              Recognizing that fundamentalist muslims routinely commit mass-murder isn’t exactly an example of “intolerance”

      4. “The lengths to which the news media will go to suggest that “Islam isn’t really to blame” reached its apex after the San Berdoo shooting.”

        Yet, after the Charleston shooting, anyone who had a Confederate flag bumper sticker was maligned as if they had participated in the massacre themselves.

        1. Smokey and The Bandit hardest hit.

          1. -1 Loaded up and rolling…

    3. Worst mass killing in American history under the watch of the guy who refuses to use the term ‘islamic terror’.

      That is one hell of a legacy you have there Obumbles.

      1. Twice, actually; the one that preceded it in San Bernadino was also promulgated by Islamo-Mohammedans.

        To say nothing of those fine, upstanding, Chechen lads, The Tsarnaev Bros.

        1. And Fort Hood. That was what 32 people I think?

          1. No, that was ‘workplace violence.’

        2. And a couple incidents of ‘workplace violence’…

          1. Now that old Okie biddie in Moore, OK was in the wrong, rebuking that Islamo-Mohammedan’s proselytizing, that terrible, bigoted Christian woman. She just lost her head over being so closed-minded about the pure, noble, Religion of Peace(tm).

            The true villain there was the off-duty deputy who happened to have an evil gun.

      2. I think the Happy Land killings claimed far more lives.

        Yup, 87 as opposed to 50 or so. And the killer used assault gasoline. Obviously we need common-sense gasoline control.

        1. Smug doesn’t become you, Zheodore. Though it could have been better phrased, what Suthenboy said is true. The Happy Land didn’t happen under Obumbles watch and didn’t involve an Islamo-Mohammedan.

          Before the blaze, Happy Land was ordered closed for building code violations during November 1988. Violations included lack of fire exits, alarms or sprinkler system. No follow-up by the fire department was documented.


          The fire exits had been blocked to prevent people from entering without paying the cover charge.

          Apparently, the owners of the club were culpable as well; I guess they were *SO* super awesome libertarian “FUCK YOU STATIST”, they couldn’t be bothered to follow the suggestions of the fire dept.

          Bonus points for The State for leaving the club alone to its own devices after the inspection.

          Apparently, the gay club was so free and libertarian, an armed person simply walked in and started firing, without The State saying a peep beforehand and left the man alone without a prior rush to judgement regardless of what the FBI knew.

    4. “an ideological motivated attack.” is the new euphemism for Islamic Terror Attack. I heard this new term on the mainstream media outlets all morning. Why can’t Liberal/Progressives admit that the problem is the fundamentals of Islam not fundamentalism.

      Why? Because they are scared so shitless of offending a group who might come kill them that their bowels literally turn to water.

  22. So the comments on HuffPo pretty much call for violence against anybody that is an NRA member because they are the cause of this. Almost no mention of the Islamic tie -in other than to say fundamentalist Christians have created a culture of violence against gays in America that the Islamists are now able to use.

    You got that? It’s the fault of the NRA and Christians that a man broke about a hundred gun laws and went on what appears to be an Islamic-motivated killing spree.

    Fucking fuck. I might actually vote for Trump just to oppose the modern left. They’re the scum of the earth.

    1. It’s the fault of proggy fuckwits that none of those people were allowed to defend themselves. The left has a lot to answer for this morning.

      1. none of those people were allowed to defend themselves

        It was Florida. Isn’t it conceivable some of the clubbers were packing?

        1. Doubtful. While its legal to carry into a restaurant in Florida, it isn’t legal to carry into a night club.

          And since law-abiding people abide laws, the only one there that was armed was the psycho and the off-duty cop.

          1. the only one there that was armed was the psycho poor benighted soul corrupted by Christian anti-gay orthodoxy

        2. Most states don’t allow carry in bars.

    2. fundamentalist Christians have created a culture of violence against gays in America that the Islamists are now able to use.

      WAT?

      1. You of all people should know that Muslims were totally okay with gays until Jesus and the Pope convinced them otherwise. It’s, like, written in the Hadiths or something.

      2. Bob Sakowski works at retired
        Point the finger where it belongs: Evangelical Christian extremists who have been waging their battle of hate on the LGBT population for far too many years.
        Like ? Reply ? Mark as spam ? 76 ? 52 mins

        There’s a lot more like that.

        1. *sigh*

          You know what, Internet? You win this round. I’m done for today. I’m going to spend the rest of the day in my backyard, picking mint from the herb garden and drinking mojitos.

          I’m getting to old for this shit.

          1. I watched the first couple minutes of some drama last night in which the first line of dialogue was “I’m getting too old for this shit.” Sighed and turned it off.

          2. Muslims never had a problem with gays until the Christian extremists showed them how.

            These people are delusional. Some facts are just too horrible for them to face and so they don’t face them.

            1. Some facts are just too horrible for them to face

          3. Have one for me Heroic. I am going to mix a martini now…putting some pork ribs on the smoker.

              1. I know that you didn’t ask me, but I used hickory last week on some ribs. I usually use apple, but didn’t have any on hand. It had too strong of a flavor I think, which is why I usually reserve it for beef or even pork butt.

                1. Don’t know why you would use hickory for beef unless it’s pecan hickory for brisket. Southern red oak is much better for ordinary beef and chicken. For any kind of pork you couldn’t ask for better than hickory or pecan.

                  1. What meat are pallets best for? What meat is pressboard best for?

          4. You sir,are a great American,enjoy.

    3. You clearly don’t appreciate how dangerous right wing gun nuts in the us are.

      They’re forcing muzzies to act against their better instincts

      1. So the narrative from the left is basically:
        White Christians and gun makers literally control people
        Muslims lack agency

        I wonder how that would translate if you carried it out to its logical conclusion. It would mean women don’t have agency in situations when one of them and a man are equally drunk and it ends up in sex. Or maybe by suing the manufacturer of an inanimate object when someone uses the product illegally.

        Oh yeah, they’re already calling for that.

        1. Anyone that rejects the lifestyle of neutered white progressives is suffering from false consciousness, and it’s racist to claim otherwise.

  23. Hillary’s angle will be gun control, Trumps will be Islamic terrorism, wonder who will win that argument.

    Also glossed over will be islams constant derision for homosexuals.

  24. So I guess this is turning into a “lets ban all guns” vs. “lets ban all muslims” battle to see which Team can most beclown themselves responding to it?

    1. Let’s ban all Islamic guns!

    2. beclown themselves

      I like it!

      “It surprises! It *cretinizes*!”

    3. What is your answer Stormy? Tell people too bad? That hey, what are the chances someone shoots up the gay club you go to?

      People are going to kill the FBI over this because he was on a watch list but what was the FBI supposed to do? Until he actively started planning this, he hadn’t committed a crime. And for every loud mouth asshole who believes in the jihad and does something, there are dozens who never do anything. How is the FBI or anyone supposed to know which kind of asshole this guy was until he did something?

      So what do we do? Understand that the more this kind of thing happens, the less saying “just die and don’t worry about it” is going to be an answer anyone is going to listen to. So even if it is the right answer, it won’t be an available answer.

      A small percentage of Muslims are for whatever reason going to lose their minds and do shit like this. What do you think we should do in response? I am open to suggestions because I don’t see any easy answers. You apparently do.

      1. What is your answer Stormy? Tell people too bad? That hey, what are the chances someone shoots up the gay club you go to?

        So you’re in the “ban all Muzzies” camp, then?

        1. No. But I don’t think that camp is anything like as irrational as the ban guns camp. I don’t think banning Muslims is a good idea but who says the world owes us good choices?

          I certainly think not letting anymore Muslims immigrate into the country is something we should consider. What sense does it make to let more of them in given the fact that a certain number of them will end up being a risk to do something like this and there is no way to tell which ones they are? What this case and the others prove time and again is that there is no way to “vet” for this. So why should the country be expected to assume that risk?

          1. “Hey, I’m Mohammad Ackbar, a Christian refugee fleeing from persecution. Can I come in?”

            1. Not if there is no way to tell if you are who you say you are.

              1. “Mmmm. I love pork. And alcohol!”

                1. And unveiled women, and flight simulators.

                2. We’ll make them do a shot, eat a piece of bacon, and blow a dude before allowing them to come in.

                  1. Well now you’re talking about a good time.

                  2. Ah the ol’ bourbon, bacon, blow ’em strategy. I like it.

            2. I assume any filtering would be done by country, not religion. It wouldn’t be “perfect” of course, but it’s been tried in the past…

      2. John, don’t get all hysterical. It’s not like some jihadi psycho is going to shoot up Stormy’s digs or friends. They’ve all got armed guard, doncha know.

        1. In the sense that me and most of my friends are gun owners, I suppose that’s true for a sufficiently expansive definition of “armed guard”.

          1. What good does owning a gun do you in this situation? Unless you just plan to shoot anyone who gets near you who appears to be a threat, the guy will likely shoot you or blow you up before the gun ever does you any good. And even if it did, you can’t deter people who want to die trying to kill you. Having lived in an environment in Iraq where I was armed but constantly worried someone was going to try to kill me, I can assure you that being armed and on guard all the time is no way to live and in no way compatible with a free society.

            I believe in self defense and gun ownership as much as anyone. But, it isn’t going to solve this problem. I wish it did but it won’t.

            1. Particularly in, “Open Carry,” states; one might as well paint a target on their chest, back, and forehead.

              1. People don’t understand self defense. The point of self defense is so that the threat of it makes sure you don’t have to use it. You don’t own a gun so that you can shoot someone who breaks into your house. You own a gun so that hopefully no one breaks in in the first place because they don’t want to get shot.

                That all breaks down when you are dealing with someone who doesn’t care if they die or go to prison for harming you.

                1. I disagree, John. I have ADT so that hopefully nobody breaks in in the first place. I have a gun so that I can shoot someone that does break into my house while I’m there.

                  1. We are arguing semantics sloopy. But think of it this way, given a choice would you rather have someone decide not to break into houses because they don’t want to get shot or have them break in and have to shoot them? You hope for the former. The latter is necessary but not something you want to do unless you have to. Self defense without deterrence is just war.

                2. You don’t own a gun so that you can shoot someone who breaks into your house.

                  That’s right. I own a gun so my wife can shoot someone who breaks into our house. I’m a decent shot, she is deadly and has nerves of steel. Fucker won’t stand a chance.

                3. You don’t own a gun so that you can shoot someone who breaks into your house. You own a gun so that hopefully no one breaks in in the first place because they don’t want to get shot.

                  Is this like one of those “The next sentence is true. The last sentence is a lie.” paradox puzzles?

                  1. No Stormy. It is saying the point of having the right and ability to defend yourself is to be able to live in peace not to shoot people.

      3. Has anybody suggested yet suppressing the news, or creating cover stories? Like if it could be made that some accident caused the death of all these people. Some freaky accident that’s unlikely ever to be reproduced, so no sense getting scared about construction or whatnot.

        Seriously, if there’s something that’s killing people & nothing can be done about it, what use is it to know, if it doesn’t become a major cause of death? And if people react badly to knowing, isn’t it better they don’t know?

        It wouldn’t take censorship, just some alteration of the laws so that it’s not fraudulent to lie in such cases, even to insurers.

        1. If you found out a massive object was going to collide with Earth some time in the near future, killing everyone & everything, would you tell anyone? Would you be like, better tell my friends to finish watching Breaking Bad or stop saving for college?

    4. So far I haven’t heads calls for banning all Muslims.*

      But the gun grabber brigade is out in full force.

      *I could be missing the sites calling for that, but so far all I’ve found is people blaming white Christians for putting these poor, hapless Muslims in a position to be brainwashed into hating gays and then acting on it in a homocidal manner.

      1. Right above you, we have John helpfully noting:

        I don’t think banning Muslims is a good idea but who says the world owes us good choices?

        1. And simultaneously denying gun-ownership is a good idea, because it serves his new narrative: Trump uber alles.

      2. “Homocidal”. Perfect.

    5. So I guess this is turning into a “lets ban all guns” vs. “lets ban all muslims” battle to see which Team can most beclown themselves responding to it?

      Exactly. One side is as stupid as the other.

      If you don’t realize that killing innocent people is wrong and can be convinced by some outside force that it’s okay, I’m thinking it won’t really matter what that outside force is, you’re a nut who’s gonna nut.

      1. Really? He is just a nut? That is all that is going on here and nothing else? What good do you think it does to pretend this is something other than what it is? What it means is debatable. But the facts are what they are and this guy wasn’t just some nut.

          1. Do you deny that ideology and religion can be used by people as a justification for killing? Were all of those deaths caused by communism just the result of a bunch of nuts deciding to kill people?

            Do nuts sometimes murder people? Sure. But sometimes people murder in furtherance of an ideology or a religion. You seem to deny that that can happen.

            And you really don’t even do that. No fucking way would you be saying this guy was “just some nut” if he were a radical Christian or a Trump supporter or someone you didn’t like or feel defending would allow you to feel superior.

        1. Really? He is just a nut? That is all that is going on here and nothing else?

          Yup. In a country of 320,000,000 people, if 0.001% are homicidal nuts, that’s 3200 homicidal nuts.

          1. But NEVER let an opportunity to push your political agenda go to waste.

            It was CLEARLY the gunz Muzziez that are responsible for this homicidal maniac homicidally maniacing.

            1. Here in Chicago, where this would be an average weekend, we blame the darkies.

              1. Do you attempt to pass laws and policies that discriminate against all the darkies because of the actions of some darkies?

                Because that’s the correct answer, you know. The right thing to do is to take away the liberty of some so you can feel safe.

                1. In Chicago, there’s laws and policies, and then there’s “laws” and “policies.”

                2. I’d say it’s legitimate to have policies that discriminate, w/o taking away liberty. In other words, it seems perfectly legitimate for suspicion to fall unequally based on such characteristics as race, religion, or anything else that might help statistically when resources are limited. Otherwise you have the stupidity of making the old ladies take off their shoes, etc., just to make it seem fair.

                  1. Hows bouts nobody needs to take off their shoes? Or how about the owner operator decides who takes off their shoes (based upon anything he decides)?

  25. There’s no way the left can cover this up. The guy is a Muslim and he went to a place where he knew he could kill gays with the intention of doing just that.

    Of course they’ll never pull their heads out of their own asses.

    CBS News reports that authorities are leaning towards Islamic terrorism as a motive

    1. Yeah, I keep hearing that word. Leaning. Omar may have had leanings to radical islam. Authorities are leaning towards islamic terror motive.

      Leaning, my ass.

      He was a muslim who walked into a nightclub and shot 103 gay people.

      1. I’m actually surprised they’re coming out this early with that.

        Especially in this political environment, it seems like they’d want to wait a few days and maybe for this thing to cool off before announcing the ‘motive’.

        I was expecting a few days of ‘authorities still don’t know the motive… in other news’

      2. He was just bicurious on that whole radical Islam thingy.

      3. Is “leaning” supposed to make it better? You briefly consider Islam and then go shoot up a nightclub? What would have happened if he had been gung-ho about it?

        1. The, “device,” would have worked properly.

  26. I look for Obama to make an appearance soon and call for gun control and an increase in immigration from muslim countries as the solution.

    1. “This was a true tragedy, but it will be compounded if we succumb to Islamophobia. Therefor we must increase Islamic immigration or the terrorist will have truly won.”

      1. It will be twice that dumb, guaranteed.

  27. You all keep joking, but I have never had your confidence in the American people. This could very well be THE ONE, the incident that starts to erode confidence in the one freedom that Americans truly are principled about. You all think because so many false alarms have been sounded before that it can never happen. Ha!

    This is of truly enormous magnitude, like nothing before. It is with an “assault weapon” that “mows down people” and that “common sense 2nd Amendment supporters” have been itching to ban again. (And, of course, other, completely irrelevant “common sense” proposals that already are, as we’re constantly pointed out, “supported by most gun owners” will be on the chopping block.)

    Also, this has happened to a group that has been newly embraced as “cute” and beloved, with all sort of illiberal excesses done in their name, by a populace still looking to exorcise their guilt over being the same folks who were treating them like human garbage until recently. Look for this to drum every ounce of instinctual libertarianism out from the mainstream LBGT thought community. The LBGT liberation-industrial complex, having completely fulfilled their mission, has like all such movements refused to self-destruct, instead crawling about in search of its next host. This will be the biggest movement of “coming together,” and of national outpouring for their victimization, since the AIDS crisis…

    1. …And Fortress America libertarians: Think outrage over this will safely be put onto the heads of a certain notoriously illiberal immigrant religious community? Think again. Shooter’s religious connections look tenuous. And if they’re not, it could be worse. The Second Amendment could be gutted right from under us with categorical restrictions; and Obama and company have explicitly attempted to use terrorism to open up all sorts of Precrime provisions. Terrorism panic has always been the vulnerable backdoor to the Second Amendment lockbox of Red American public opinion; it always pit an unstoppable force against immovable object. And given who their new Svengali is, I actually think the 2A is safer if Hillary wins.

      1. I actually think the 2A is safer if Hillary wins

        That’s the only sentence in that rant that is important.

        1. It’s certainly the most delusional.

          1. Exactly

        2. Well, that wasn’t very polite, but thanks for reading anyway. That last part was an afterthought, since when I got to the bottom I realized just how dangerous Trump is as the cultural-demographic Right’s standardbearer in this situation.

          I loathe Hillary, I am quite aware of her danger to the courts, and will be (reluctantly) voting for Johnson. But go ahead and ignore the dangers of having an assault-weapon ban supporter leading Red America around by the nose. I’m sure everything will be fine as long as this situation is made permanent for four years.

          1. Trump supports only pro-2A SC picks. Who knows what he’d do as President, but I doubt that is one of the things he’d flip on.

            Hillary, OTOH, hates 2A openly and would pick the exact opposite SC picks.

            A president can do a lot in the short term. The SC can do nearly permanent damage.

            1. I am aware of all of this. That’s why, alone among people who otherwise consider Trump far more dangerous than the disgusting authoritarian the Dems have nominated, I actually make a narrow concession to “reasonable” Trump support. If you believe his SCOTUS promises, it is indeed reasonable to think that all the horrible damage he will do, including possibly driving many of the last pretenses of libertarianism out of the Republican party and turning it into a European-style populist movement, will be worth the impact Hillary has promised to make on the Court.

              I’m a bit like Romney that way, and those are seven words I never thought I’d see myself type.

      2. ^^this guy really gets it

        1. Gets what, a case of retardation?

          1. (ssssh! that’s what i mean when i say that. ur ruining mah memes bro)

            1. Oh.
              ::adjusts sarcasmometer::

      3. If Sandyhook didn’t result in the 2nd Amendment being gutted, why will this? Time and again people’s response to these incidents has been to see a greater need to be armed not want to give up their arms. A majority of the country not only supports the 2nd Amendment but also votes on the issue. If those people didn’t change their mind after Sandyhook and in fact more people came around to agreeing with them after Sandyhook, why would they suddenly do so after this? What you are saying makes no sense.

        1. This shit really makes me angry. First of all you have Obama wanting to increase immigration from muslim countries, knowing full well that there are a percentage of them who support terrorism and a few that will actually commit acts like this, then when it happens, he and his useful idiot minions try to blame gun owners and gun rights for it.

          1. Fundamentalist transformation of America.

          2. It’s like it’s part of some intelligent design…

          3. It just proves we need more gun control and more anti-Islamophobia training. /derp

        2. Thanks for a respectful and convincing disagreement. This is an empirical claim, not an ideological one. And I am not making a definite prediction here (in fact I would bet lightly on support holding), only challenging the cockiness that seems to believe that we are invincible on this. It’s more of a devil’s advocate argument, because I see many potential vulnerabilities–and so do the gun grabbers.

          And this one is different in magnitude and details from anything that has happened before. I have not sounded the alarm on any “mass shooting” prior to this one, but I challenge the assumption that we can rest easy based on past patterns when we have a new extreme “corner case” that stretches those patterns to their limits.

          Basically I believe America, for all our rhetoric, is deep down in its foundational principles a fundamentally unlibertarian place–itching for security, majoritarianism, control over their neighbors, and ready to sell their supposedly cherished freedoms at the sound of the next panic alarm. All those former Constitution thumpers praying at the feet of their new Orange Calf should be enough to demonstrate that.

          1. This one is of similar magnitude and the result of Islamic terrorism. You can imagine people saying “lets give up our guns so that the insane can’t get them” but that is not the same thing as saying “lets give up our guns because Muslims are coming to the country to murder us”. The latter is going to cause people to want to be armed more not less. Cases like this cause people to conclude a foreign ideology is coming to their homes to make war on them. And that is not going to cause anyone to want to be less armed who doesn’t already have a superstitious fear of guns.

            1. That’s an excellent point in the other direction. I hope you’re right.

            2. Esp. since the shooter was licensed as a security guard. So it’s not as if gun controllers can argue nobody should be allowed to have guns unless they work in a security capacity; they sometimes do say that, but obviously that won’t work here. After police shoot an innocent victim, there are hardly any gun controllers asking that the police be disarmed.

              1. Maybe they should be demanding that night clubs have not only fire suppression devices, but people suppression devices, so if somebody starts shooting they can gas the room & KO everyone. Of course that’ll probably result in some deaths, since it’s hard to control dose, and it’d better be something nonflammable like chloroform.

          2. Absolutely this

            And a +1 bonus for the orange calf.

          3. America is fundamentally unlibertarian compared to where?

      4. 1) You’re right, terrorism has always been the ‘backdoor to fuck the lockbox of Red America’. Since ca. 2001.
        2) Red America (assuming you’re referring to Team Red and not Team Commie Red) won’t turn their backs on 2A like this. It will strengthen their resolve. It will also, magically strengthen the proggies’ resolve that muslims are great and guns are evil.

        1. I certainly hope you’re right. But I don’t think that dam can hold forever. I fear getting cocky.

          Also, thanks for being nice. I never expected an empirical prediction could unleash this kind of nastiness. You’d think I wanted this shit to happen or something. Probably tells you something about human mentality, that people are more attached to their worldview than anything!

      5. Think outrage over this will safely be put onto the heads of a certain notoriously illiberal immigrant religious community?

        Are you talking about all those horrible New Yorkers who have flooded into Florida? If so, +1000.

    2. I don’t think so. 2A is where the rubber meets the road. It’s just too obvious that the gun banners are collectivizing all owners as extremists and potential sadists. With speech or 4A protections it’s easier to divide and conquer: after all, if you’re not a racist/ if you have nothing to hide, you have nothing to worry about.

      1. I can’t believe I’d be rooting for Red America to decide we need to arm ourselves against Muslims, but that is indeed the thread that America’s only truly beloved freedom may be hanging from. I’d bet on it, too; I’m just not as confident as some people.

        1. Most amendments are simply too cerebral for most people, and that’s not because most people are dumb, but because they haven’t spent too much time thinking about it. With speech, as with warrant-less wiretapping, it’s easy to agree to minimal, “common-sense” concessions. Of course we need to do such-and-such to protect so-and-so, despite what the Constitution says, because we’re not absolutists. And so on.

          With guns, it’s different. Most people own one or know someone close who does, and except for a few ideologically blinkered extremists, it’s not easy to convince them that gun owners are vile people who need their possessions and their rights stripped away. There’s much greater contact between rubber and pavement on this issue.

    3. At least I haven’t seen any libertarians yet trying to spin this incident as being a result of USA foreign policy. Like, you know, because the US armed forces are predominantly homosexual, so this is how the otherwise helpless peoples try to get even. Or because armed drones are “so gay”.

  28. My prediction stands. Hillary will scramble to get in front of the cameras first and make an unforced error.

    1. The term “loopholes” is going to get a workout.

      1. Loopholes like getting a security guard license?

        1. Did he?

          I have no doubt that they (the grabbers) will provide talking points to Hillary insisting this exposes yet another “loophole” in the regulatory state.

          The last one i heard about was the “Charleston loophole”…which is something to do with the fact that if the Fed gov fails to provide a reason “No” in adequate time, the firearm can be sold as long as they clear on the ‘instant check’ system. 3 days or something. Basically, what they want to impose is “Unlimited Background Checks” which have no time limits and everyone will have to wait 9 months before the paperwork is returned requiring correction. I presume the theory is by increasing the paperwork they will put the retailers and gun-companies out of business through reducing their ability to sell their product.

          1. And they’re retarded enough to believe it will also eliminate sales from car trunks and friends.

    2. I say it will be Obama.

    3. She probably came when she first heard the news this morning.

      1. Eh, I’m not so sure. They probably see the similarities to the San Bernardino shooting. And they know that they fucked up in how they handled that.

        Calling for law abiding americans to give up their guns in the wake of an islamic terror attack is NOT a winning strategy.

        Not to mention what the New York Daily News did.

        1. I think the oppurtunity to pander to the LGBT community and to stand on more dead bodies for “common sense” gun regulations will get her off regardless of whether or not it’s a smart strategy

          1. IOW, the elitist left think that all LGBT people are stupid.

            1. + all black people

              1. + all women

            2. In fairness, if the only gay people you knew were like Tony, what would you think?

            3. IOW, the elitist left think that all LGBT people other than themselves (who are intellectually superior TOP MEN) are stupid.

        2. I agree. I think the fears that this is the end of the 2nd Amendment are overblown. But they will try to make it about gun control and shoot themselves in the foot doing so. You watch.

        3. I hope the fucker wasn’t carrying an iPhone.

          1. This is the best comment that will ever some from this topic. Anywhere.

    4. It’ll be Hillary. Obama won’t be off the golf course before she’s in front of a camera.

      She’s gonna call for cooler heads to prevail while also calling for th gutting of a fundamental right. Because everybody knows she hates freedom anyway.

      1. In fairness, this happened too late to make the morning papers so Obama won’t know it happened until he reads about it tomorrow morning.

  29. God you can imagine how much ARs are going to cost over the next few months?

    1. I’ve been looking at sig 716s which have gone up $300 over the last year. This sure isn’t going to help.

      1. I’m building one later this summer. Probably multi caliber

        1. Nice. I hade looked into sone uppers for my AR a few years back. 50 Beowulf, 458 SOCOM, and the 450 Bushmaster. But ammo was non-existent. Sounded like reloading supplies were more available for the .458 SOCOM due to the .458 winchester cartridge.

          1. At this point, I’m thinking an 80% lower. It’s time to have one off the books, even if I don’t get around to finishing it for a while.

            1. Good call. Someday we’ll be able to print them:)

        2. “multi caliber” always makes me picture a gun where you can put random bullets of different calibers into the same magazine and it just fires them all as they come up in turn.

    2. *kicks self for not buying more lowers at yesterday’s gun show*

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    ??? http://www.selfcash10.com

  31. Obama hasn’t rushed to a statement because this event so clearly points to radical islam. What I don’t get is that radical islamists hate the ideas that the Left stand for, yet vote for them anyway. And the Left panders to them like crazy. I understand if mohammedans hate republicans b/c of all the gulf wars and and blowing their villages up, but why would the Left think that they can force mass acceptance of LGBTQ issues, and other antithetical to islam ideas and concurrently expect Islamists to vote for them?

    What am I missing here?

    1. Obama has not commented yet because he’s on a golf course somewhere.

      Right-wing bigotry spans all religions and one major political party in this country. You gotta make the case for why Muslims should have any sane reason to vote Republican.

      1. Right-wing bigotry killed 50-something gays in a Miami nightclub.

      2. You really are fucking gone Tony. You will support the Prog cause right up until that Jihadist bullet goes through your head.

        1. I know the simplest matters vex your tiny little brain, but this is the deal with liberalism, Islam, terrorism, and such: nobody supports terrorism but terrorists. Liberals manage to find space in their thoughts to worry about Islamophobia, as they worry about bigotry against all minority groups, which is one of the main points of being a liberal.

          My people were assaulted today. Because I’m not a fucking moron, I don’t blame the population of Indonesia for that assault. It would be totally pointless to do so.

            1. Your people?

              Tony claims to be gay. Or maybe he’s just a woman trapped in a man’s body. Whatever.

          1. Fuck you Tony. People were murdered today. But thanks for confirming that you are so sick with identity politics you only give a fuck when “your people” are harmed. Good to know.

            1. True, it’s not like a Christian was forced to bake a cake or anything, god forbid.

              1. Tony, professor of proportionality.

              2. Forced baking is the only thing stopping mass starvation in the gay community.

          2. Liberals manage to find space in their thoughts to worry about Islamophobia, as they worry about bigotry against all minority groups, which is one of the main points of being a liberal.

            Hmm, yes….all groups except rich folk, Republicans, right wing conservatives, Jews, Christians, white people, ‘murikans, etc.etc. Fuck off, cockroach.

    2. Maybe he’ll admit it was radical Islam, but clearly the guy was triggered by Trump to do what he did. If not for Trump, no terrorist acts would happen, ever.

    3. Well if you wanted to take over a country with your barbaric ideology and had the opportunity to vote for their leaders would you not vote for the pussies who will roll over for you, disarm the populace, and kiss your ass up until the moment you’re cutting off their empty head?

    4. That the left doesnt give a shit about advancing lgbt rights, stopping mass shootings, ending wars, etc.

      “Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.”

      1. That the left doesnt give a shit about advancing lgbt rights

        cf. Tony, just above, damning his own sexuality in service to the greater progressive cause.

        I’ve heard about self-hating Jews, but Tony is the first gay man I’ve known to cashier his own sexual identity in a witless apologia for Muslim terrorism.

        1. When it comes to religion I’m a Hitchens-Dawkins-Maher type of liberal. Fuck Islam.

          1. Then why support Hillary, who wants to import more Muslims?

          2. Right-wing bigotry spans all religions and one major political party in this country. You gotta make the case for why Muslims should have any sane reason to vote Republican.

            1. Republicans, most notably their presidential candidate, are openly bigoted against Muslims. That’s why Muslims don’t vote for them. Same with every other minority group in this country, for that matter.

              1. And this has what to do with a Muslim man slaughtering gays in a night club in Miami?

                1. Besides being awfully inconvenient for progressives, that is.

                2. I don’t know. Duke was confused about why Muslims vote for Democrats. I was trying to explain.

                  1. Welcome to Tribal Politics 101, a celebration.

  32. Made the mistake of going to HuffPo. Were you aware that the LGBT live with this danger EVERY DAY. That must be horrible. Why aren’t these daily massacres reported on faux news? Something must be done.

  33. Random asides:

    1. Trump stock just ticked up and I’m about to put real money down on his winning the election. Just because I LOATHE and DESPISE him and am not going to vote for him doesn’t mean I can’t make money on his back.

    2. Islam notwithstanding, I could see this happening with a Trumpoid, representative of how much rage he’s channeled, who got sick of having to embrace 1% of the population’s sexuality. These are the guys who are putting up with abuse because they can’t see a way out of their situation, then they just snap and mow everybody down in a fit of rage.

    “Leave us alone” and “It’s none of your business who I’m fucking” works more or less efficiently.

    “Bake me a cake or I’ll sue you into homelessness because your beliefs hurt my feelz and the court agrees with me ha ha ha ha!!1!!!one That’ll show you, you redneck bigots!” is bound to backfire. (Please note that was shorthand for the prevailing attitude, not about the fucking cake. Or fucking a cake?an’ it hurt none etc.) Let’s be generous and say 10% of the population. The 90% no likey to watch or embrace.

        1. You’re a right-wing fuckface, so you’re probably fat and ugly, so no.

          1. You’re the token liberal here, right?

            1. Erstwhile. Thought I’d pop in to see how the freedom lovers were reacting. Terrorism, gays, guns–quite an intersection!

              1. I’m all about the intersectionality. Women’s and gender studies, you know.

              2. Terrorism, gays, guns… two out of three of these present an “intersection” verboten for right-thinking progressives to dwell on, so you’ll go with the one Constitutionally-enshrined liberty as your bete noire. And then mock libertarians for being, let’s see, “freedom lovers.”

                1. If the constitution allows you to own an object that can kill hundreds of people in a matter of minutes, then the constitution is a piece of shit.

                  1. It also protects against killing hundreds of millions of people in a matter of months, but we’re discussing the United States, not the entire socialist experiment.

                  2. D- trolling.

                    Taking a meme that the commentariat uses to mock liberals and then regurgitating it is unoriginal and boring.

                    1. He’s not a troll, he’s a good progressive soldier.

                  3. If the constitution allows you to own an object that can kill hundreds of people in a matter of minutes, then the constitution is a piece of shit.

                    So tony wants to ban buses, trains, cars and boats.

                    1. Certainly those pregnancy causing buses.

          2. No one on the internet is good looking, except for me.

          3. You’re a right-wing fuckface, so you’re probably fat and ugly, so no.

            So you’re prejudiced against people whose appearance you find unpleasant? My, how liberal of you.

    1. 3. It’s just that a Muslim is more likely to pop off SOONER than one’s average Joe Plumber and get out the gun knowing his actions will be excused because religious bigotry, and that he’s doing Allah’s work and will be a hero and martyr to his people.

      4. Target stock tanked after the transgender bathroom decision. Chick-fil-A’s sales skyrocketed after their CEO said wrongspeak.

      These things are what happen when you cater to and lobby for 10% of the population’s feelz.

      Unrelated: I’m shocked nobody’s beat that Brock Turner kid’s ass right into a coma yet. Or is he still in jail protected from genpop? Are they taking bets for that too? *runs off to check*

      1. Re: the rapey swimmer: a large swimming organization just banned him for life in the last few days, I think.

    2. . Islam notwithstanding, I could see this happening with a Trumpoid, representative of how much rage he’s channeled, who got sick of having to embrace 1% of the population’s sexuality. These are the guys who are putting up with abuse because they can’t see a way out of their situation, then they just snap and mow everybody down in a fit of rage

      I am sure you could. But that says everything about you and nothing about Trump supporters. You might try understanding reality as it is instead of how your prejudices cause you to hope that it is.

      And as angry as the cake cases make me, they had nothing to do with this. Bringing the subject up in this context accomplishes nothing.

      1. It says I have no faith in Trump supporters’ willingness to look at the man’s life and think maybe he’s not the right guy for the job OR their willingness to listen to what he actually says and realize is distills to…nothing.

        1. There is no evidence any of them would ever do something like this. You just assume they would because it fits your prejudice. Notice, you don’t say Bernie supporters would do this, even though they are the ones rioting and attacking people. But you are sure Trump supporters would.

          Whatever. You hate Turmp and his supporters and can’t face the idea that they are just another political movement and nothing like Islamic terrorists. This is all about you and your desire to feel important by inflating your enemies and has nothing to do with the truth.

          1. 1. Yes. I do hate Trump. I have hated him since the late 80s, early 90s.

            2. I don’t pay attention to Bernie supporters ?

            3. ? until Trump starts courting them.

      2. Oh, it also says I am aware of and understand why the cake might be a one of the straws on the camel’s back.

        I get the Trump love. I do.

        I just don’t share it.

        1. There is no evidence of that or reason to think that. Islam has always had a militant attitude about gays. And it is very clear the people who bring such cases would never bring one against a Muslim.

            1. Sorry I misunderstood.

              1. No worries.

                Mind, I’m also upset that the militant feminists won’t address the atrocities they commit on their women. What I have never been able to tell is if it’s because they’re scared of being mocked as bigots or killed.

    3. “I could see this happening with a Trumpoid, representative of how much rage he’s channeled, who got sick of having to embrace 1% of the population’s sexuality. These are the guys who are putting up with abuse because they can’t see a way out of their situation, then they just snap and mow everybody down in a fit of rage.”

      Except it wasn’t.

      1. I was wondering how long it would take to reach “they had it coming.”

        Not that long.

        1. No. Nobody deserves that. They deserve the right to be left alone, like everyone else.

          I am speaking to the unstables who will use such things as an excuse to express their rage.

  34. The Islamism aspect is too prevalent here for it to be an effective gun control provocation in my opinion. Of course much of the media is going to hyperventilate over this but I just don’t see people buying it.

    If you have the stomach for it, go to a progressive and a conservative site and read the comments on this sad incident. It’s a Rorschach test if I’ve ever seen one.

  35. I don’t care what anyone says, Islam is totally incompatible with modern Western society. Modern Western society is very decadent and this pisses off some followers of Islam and having all of this ‘sin’ right up in their fact 24/7 is going to piss off a few of them enough that they think acts like this are warranted.

  36. Just saw on MSNBC: Talking Head asks ‘expert’ in interview what an AR15 is. Expert reply: An AR15 is basically a M16 for civilians. It’s an automatic weapon , it’s a machine gun. We need to remove these military weapons from our streets and homes.

    Cunt.

    1. Wow! I guess we’re lucky more people didn’t die if it’s an automatic weapon! Even a SEMI-automatic weapon can kill hundreds of people in a minute. I have it on good authority!

    2. TV would never lie to me, Marge.

    3. Gun grabbers lie. Count on it like the sun rising.

  37. HuffPo:

    Joan Menapace
    “a well regulated militia” is what the 2nd Ammendment says about the right to bear arms. Since when are these murderers part of any of the above?
    Like ? Reply ? 1 ? 15 mins

    Rob Marshall ? St. Louis
    One shot muskets…gun of the times when it was written.

    I guess the whole internet versus ink and moveable type printing press thing is lost on this guy.

    1. Anyone stupid enough to actually hit “submit” on a comment like Mr. Marshall’s isn’t capable of understanding the relationship.

      1. Living Constitution, brah. It means whatever the hell he wants it to mean.

    2. Joan also doesn’t know what the Founders meant by “militia.”

      1. Every able bodied person in the US is part of the militia.

      2. Joan also misspelt, “Menopause,” apparently. Must have have been a hot flash or something.

    3. I agree that murderers shouldn’t be allowed to own guns.

    4. This is why we can’t have free speech today. Our founders couldn’t conceive of the intertoobz.

  38. CNN is trying really, really hard to make sure we all know this mass killing hasn’t been officially found to be of Islamic origin. Really hard.

    http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/…..index.html

    1. Is it because they are so worried vigilante justice will be doled out at mosques throughout the country? I am pretty sure that has never happened.

      1. No, it’s because it kills their narrative.

      2. It has happened a couple of times but every time I have heard about it, the retards mistakenly attacked some poor Sikh.

      3. Letting that stop them has also never happened.

        🙁

  39. Now David French must run.

    French 2016!

    1. Look Crusty, this is what happens when you keep white trash communities alive, let the youth listen to Prince music, don’t respect the police and let married women carry on unsupervised email conversations with men. America was just asking for this.

    2. Too late, French surrendered.

  40. Looks like a white Trump voter. Never mind the NYPD t-shirts he’s wearing and that he has a state-issued gun permit/license.

    http://www.tmz.com/2016/06/12/…..ub-murder/

    1. Ban NYPD clothing. Please.

      1. Ban NYPD. Please.

        1. Beat me to it.

    2. So he was a douchebag too?!

      1. Not enough kissy lips or hair gel.

        1. How about now?

          1. Noted below! I just knew it had to exist.

          2. The last paragraph of that article:

            The deadliest single-person mass murder in American history before Orlando occured in Bath, Michigan, in 1927, when a man bombed a school, killing 44 people.

            Wait, I thought only guns could cause this kind of carnage.

            1. Wait, I thought only guns could cause this kind of carnage.

              In the olden days before social media, the majority-white population suffered greatly from false consciousness. Plus, the NRA was big on private bomb ownership back then.

    3. It’s like a parody of a description of someone that the most fanatic gun grabbers would concede should be allowed to have guns. What could they do, ban people named Omar from working security?

      Also, what’s the fetish with the authorities about whether this is connected with ISIS? It doesn’t matter whether there’s any organiz’n, it’s just the idea, “Kill the infidels! Especially the ones that make kissy w each other!” It’s an evil idea, who cares if there’s an evil organiz’n too? Like Trump’s fercocked idea to “bomb ISIS”, as if that’d make anybody safer beyond those who face a local military threat.

  41. On 9-11, the problem wasn’t the hijackers, it was the planes. We should’ve banned them. Would’ve made us all a lot safer.

    1. The TSA and its invasive searches are merely “common-sense” Plane Control!

      1. Basically, they are. Remember the analysis a few yrs. ago that it’s all about non-fliers sacrificing the interests of fliers for the safety of non-fliers? It’s about keeping air travelers from letting their vehicles be used as weapons.

  42. Mateen’s ex-wife spoke to the Washington Post and said he used to beat her.

    BOOM! Intersectionality

    1. There it is.

      The talking point: Firearms and Domestic Violence.

  43. As I’ve said, any terror attack helps Trump. This one has the gay angle, which makes it even worse for Hillary. She has a lot of gay support, but there’s no way she can square that with her eagerness for more Muslim immigrants and refugees.

    Trump’s proposed Muslim ban (which will be negotiated down to “no Muslim refugees and a pause on Muslim immigration”) just caused a chunk of Hillary’s vote to defect to Trump.

    1. While it’s likely that Trump’s supporters won’t be able to grasp the fact that the shooter was American born and thus would be unaffected by Trump’s fascist policy, it seems just as likely that in a time of fear people will flock to the one remaining candidate who’s actually credible for the job.

      1. Paging John, Tony made a valid point. John, are you listening.

        1. I dont understand how the word “credible” belongs in his statement.

        2. He almost made a good point but not quite. Yes, it is true that Trump’s policy wouldn’t have stopped this guy. That however doesn’t mean it won’t stop others and isn’t worth doing. Tony is engaging in sophistry here by pretending that any policy that won’t stop every harm is automatically not worth doing. And frankly, sophistry is a step up from what Tony usually posts.

          1. Are you advocating for Trump’s Muslim ban?

            1. Do you think it is a bad idea in light of this? This likely represents our enemies getting smarter and instead of targeting random people targeting people engaged in specific activities they don’t like. Islamics hate gays and loath the West for its tolerance of gays. I have spent a fair amount of time in the middle east and every Muslim I met very conservative views about homosexuality and the family and thought the US had lost its mind allowing gays to live openly. And these are moderate nice Muslims who are on our side. You can imagine what the radicals think.

              What if our enemies have gotten smarter and start targeting gay clubs and such? Gays are going back in the closet. You don’t need many terror acts to get people think twice about doing something. If you don’t believe me, ask yourself how many Muhamad cartoons you see in public.

              You should be asking yourself if it is a good idea to let more Muslims in the country, because it is likely to affect you long before it affects me.

              1. You know what kills many thousands of times more US citizens than Muslims? Guns. The things we can’t do anything about the US constitution, which would equally forbid the policy you are supporting out of sheer pig-headed bigoted stupidity of a degree that is almost unfathomable.

                1. You’re right, so so right, Tony. Guns kill. People don’t use guns to kill people; the guns just kill all by themselves.

                  And who ever heard of things like knives or IEDs, anyway?

                  1. If knives are just as effective at killing people, then why do people insist that they need guns to defend themselves?

                    1. Because if you make guns illegal, people that don’t mind breaking the law will still have them. The rest of us will have knives. RPJ never said knives are as effective as killing tools. Only that you can’t stop murder by banning weapons.

                    2. Considering the rest of the civilized world has both much stricter gun restrictions and far less murder, there must be something to it, unless there’s something particularly bloodthirsty about Americans and that the ubiquity of guns is incidental to that.

                    3. So you’re saying that all societies and cultures have exactly the same amount of intrinsic violence?

                    4. I won’t deny that a gun is more effective at killing, although a couple of years ago a group of Uighur Muslims killed 33 people in China with just knives.

                      But my point was: guns don’t do shit by themselves.

                2. Don’t worry Tony, Muslims are working to fix that. And judging from last night, it looks like they are starting with your people first.

                  And you do realize how stupid your response is? By your logic lynchings were no big deal since more black people were murdered by other blacks than were ever lynched.

                3. You know what kills many thousands of times more US citizens than Muslims? Guns.

                  I eagerly await Tony’s calls to ban cars, swimming pools, ladders and baseball bats.

                  1. It is better than that Sloopy. Tony is saying that a hate crime murder is no big deal since people die for so many other reasons. He is so dumb he doesn’t realize that is what he is saying but he is saying it none the less.

                4. You know what kills many thousands of times more US citizens than Muslims? Guns.

                  Let’s see… 9000ish homicides per year with guns. “Many” means what, say 20? So multiply the 70ish killed by the last two Muslim terror attacks and you’ve got about 150 years worth of gun murders.

                  1. What is even funnier is Tony said guns have the same “free will” as Muslims. So either guns are intelligent or Muslims are not.

                    If another commentator on this board said that Tony would say that is proof of their bigotry.

              2. They won’t go back in the closet, but if they’re smart they won’t gather openly with advance notice. Individually they’re not enough of a target.

                That’s the stupid thing about Israel. You’re a widely persecuted minority? So gather in 1 place, yeah, that’ll be safer.

          2. Gun control wouldn’t solve every harm, but if we don’t try we’re doing a disservice to those gunned down in our streets.

            1. Gun control wouldn’t solve any harm and would make things worse. If not allowing Muslims to immigrate can be shown to do the same, then we shouldn’t do it. But the fact that it won’t solve every harm doesn’t mean it isn’t worth doing.

              You are engaging in worse sophistry than Tony. Tony is now posting smarter things than you are. You might want to walk back on that a bit.

              1. Sorry I don’t share your affection for Trump, John. You still haven’t shown a) how we can simply shutter Muslims from other countries, b) why they wouldn’t simply lie about their heritage, c) whether that would prevent homegrown terrorists, and d) how it’s going to be any more enforceable or effective than mass gun control.

      2. “…the one remaining candidate who’s actually credible for the job.”

        Thank you Tony. I haven’t had a laugh yet today. Really, hearing about this attack the minute I rolled out of bed had me pretty down. I needed that chuckle.

      3. the fact that the shooter was American born and thus would be unaffected by Trump’s fascist policy

        You’re not a total idiot, are you, Tony? He was a Muslim born of… Muslim immigrants. Trump’s “fascist” policy of stopping Muslim immigration would certainly have affected this, had it been in place years ago.

    2. not really

    3. Now would be a good time to delete the idiotic part of the LP migration plank. All Republicans ever hear about is: “Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders.” The platform is what’s supposed to get us on the train, not thrown under it.

      While we’re at it… this anchor baby mystic in Orlando was acting “in good faith”–another George Bushism we would do well to delete from the Libertarian Platform.

  44. How long before a Hillary surrogate (my money is on Lieawatha) comes out and says this is the result of people like Trump spewing hate?

    If she does, the Democrats can go ahead and write off Florida.

    1. I can totally see Florida Dems lapping that shit up and still being #readyforher. There’s retardation in the water.

      1. And lice. There’s pubic lice in the water in Florida.

        1. I thought you got them all on your last vacation?

        2. Also sea lice.

          My scientific bumper sticker analysis has recorded a vastly greater number of Trump stickers than Hillary stickers here in the “hold my beer” state.

          1. Hey now, Wisconsin has a claim to the most common last words being “hold my beer and watch this” too!

    2. How long before a Hillary surrogate (my money is on Lieawatha) comes out and says this is the result of people like Trump spewing hate?

      I presume it already happened on “Meet the Press”

    3. The Dems are leading at 3 to 1 in betting odds because the GOP wants to point guns at pregnant women in its efforts to abolish the orgasm. The LP, in abetting pro-life-after-death creeps, is giving women cause to cross the street to avoid us.
      Amazing that Orwell saw this coming in 1945…

      1. the GOP wants to point guns at pregnant women in its efforts to abolish the orgasm

        what in the jumping-jack-christ are you talking about?

  45. We need to invade the Middle East and liberalize gun laws. If only gay guys on a cocktail of meth and mdma were packing this sort of tragedy would never had happened. Thank God sadden Hussein is out of power.

    1. Interesting. Can you please expand further?

      1. (Psst! Ask if he has a newsletter or a Little Red Book or such!)

    2. We have to oppose their throwing gays off rooftops there in order to prevent their gunning down gays in nightclubs here.

      Dude, this is a political loser for you and Tony. Hang low for a few days and wait for the umbrage to blow over. This isn’t going anywhere for your lot.

      1. Only because you idiots think gay rights advocacy and radical Muslim terrorism have some kind of common cause in the US. Try less FOX News.

        1. Yes, the log-rolling progressive stack strategy is the common cause. As you have amply demonstrated upthread. Were you paying attention or do the apologias fly off the fingers faster than you can keep up?

          1. You misread if you thought I was apologizing for violent Muslim extremism. If on occasion it seems that liberals are quick to defend normal Muslims after incidents like this, it’s because they are quite aware of how abysmally idiotic American white people can be with their long history of blaming groups for the actions of individuals.

            1. No.

              Progressives defend their actions because progressives maintain a party line vis-a-vis racist white men. You intentionally misconstrue the desire to call out Islamic illiberalism as being anti-Muslim. Islam is fundamentally not compatible with Western liberalism. Muslims can reform, and most have, but the core credentials of their identity are illiberal. And that needs to, must be, called out. But progressives, because you are an illiberal breed of totalitarian statists, side immediately with the anti-Western narrative. So slaughtering gay men must be excused on some other grounds because, after all, it’s the fault of conservatives/ Americans/ Westerners/ imperialists/ colonists/ whatever.

              1. Find me one person who holds the position you’re describing. I think conservative religion in general is incompatible with western liberal values, and conservative Islam is probably the worst offender, although there are a lot more Christians in this country, and they differ only in their lacking the courage of their convictions.

                1. Find me one person who holds the position you’re describing.

                  How about Obama and every single dem pol that came out and said Trump’s statements are essentially ISIS recruitment videos. If that’s not excusing their violence and shifting the blame to a third party, I don’t know what is.

                2. You silly-billy, it’s not about holding positions, it’s about holding your nose and pushing the right buttons until your log gets rolled again.

        2. They don’t, except the cult of multiculturalism says that all ideologies are equal.

        3. Try less FOX News.

          Did not realize this was still a thing. Huh. Hello, 2005, how’ve you been?

    3. Sadden Hussein, lol.

    4. Nice way to stereotype all,gay club-goers as drug abusers.

      Idiot.

      1. Don’t be so uptight. Some gays are straight-laced log cabin Republican types, but gays in nightclubs know how to party.

      2. Who’s saying that’s a bad thing?

        1. Nobody. Duh, boring guy.

    5. Yes. We need to start drug testing teh gays. I agree. Especially if they want guns. And that Hussein guy was really up to no good. As for liberalizing gun laws, can you clarify your definition of liberal?

    6. What the hell are you talking about AmSoc?

      Tony, what the hell are you talking about?

  46. WaPo reports killer was a wife beater. this is my shocked face.

    1. Ah, there’s the kissy lips that were missing from the link above. Douchebag as charged.

    2. The mass murder thing had me thinking the guy was an asshole but this little tidbit has convinced me.

      1. It convinced me that that he likes dick.

        1. I’d have to agree. He should’ve worked out his frustrations dancing at the place, not shooting it up.

        2. I wonder how much repressed excitement he felt as he walked into the place. “I could put these guns and IEDs down and just dance. Inshallah, it would feel so good. But alas, no.”

    3. Ok. I’m calling it now.

      If you check this guy’s closet, you’re gonna find a whole bag of dicks.

  47. I think we can safely assume the Tent-Show-Revivalist-in-Chief will be in full Petulant Bitch mode when he preaches to the nation.

    1. IM JUST SO MAD!! AND CRYING!! MAD AND CRYING!! I TRY TO USE MY POWERS TO PROTECT YOU, BUT YOU KEEP REFUSING!!?

  48. Check out this excellent Samizdata post. Apparently Reddit was busy censoring the news for hours.

    1. To me the funny thing about the censorship here is that the people who do it think somehow that they are helping the situation by deleting anything they don’t like or anything they think might offend somebody.

      And yet, people are baffled as to the rise of Trump.

      1. Yep. They still think people like Trump for “who he is”… rather than flocking to him merely because the mass-media is hellbent on telling them not to.

        1. I think it’s obvious that both of those are happening.

          1. I agree. But the people who like Trump for “who he is” are a constant. The people that are awakening to the blatant totalitarianism of the progressive left are expanding. Exponentially now. So, Trump couldn’t have really happened without a ton of radical progressive help. The irony is delicious.

            1. Indeed.

    2. Apparently Reddit was busy censoring the news for hours.

      So as a result, the Donald Trump subreddit became the de facto source for news on the shooting, with 11 articles making it to the front page. Holy shitballs are the mods retarded.

    3. r/news is losing a thousand subscribers every couple of minutes. Wow

  49. I already pretty much know what Obama and Hillary will have to say about this. Not sure what Trump will say, but it will be about immigration, of course.

    What I really want to see is what Gary Johnson says. That should be very interesting.

    1. Getting your vital organs exploded is the price we pay for freedom?

      1. Actually, it looks like Obama and Hillary, knowing what this is, are being pretty quiet about it so far, just doing the whole I’m so sad condolences thing.

        1. As Obama has noted, if whole classrooms full of children getting butchered isn’t enough to change gun politics in this country, nothing probably will. The cheering you hear is from the gun manufacturers whose interests your political beliefs were invented to support.

          1. Are you really so stupid as to believe than banning anything does dick?

            1. So the US is unique in the world in terms of guns per capita as well as gun deaths. Must be a wild coincidence.

              1. Most of which are suicides, you imbecile.

                1. Still don’t get why our huge problem with gun suicides is supposed to be a nonissue.

                  1. Tony-

                    Still don’t get why our huge problem with gun suicides is supposed to be a nonissue.

                    Pro-choice, or just pro-abortion?

              2. Tony, what is wrong with you? Are you being sarcastic?

          2. Gun companies are financial losers for the most part. None of them really make much profit and the companies are bought and sold like monopoly game properties. Most of them are hanging on by a thread most of the time.

            This notion that gun companies are swimming in money and have some great power in washington is complete bullshit, a fairy tale invented by people who want to make you helpless for your own good.

            Idiot.

      2. Tony, I ask that you conduct a brief thought experiment. Imagine that you are in England circa 1630. And that everyone in England was exactly like you. Would any of you and your people ever braved the Atlantic to immigrate to America, brave harsh, cold winters, and sometimes natives, risk life and property to rebel against England, to eventually form a country that creates the first truly free society based on a constitution that recognizes inalienable rights?

        No, you would not have done any of that. You are a whiny little coward who enjoys the freedom that others paid for, yet you don’t have the wisdom to understand what it took to purchase the liberties and safety you have right now. This republic would never have been if only people like you were around back then. You are always free to move to Saudi Arabia where there are no christian conservatives anywhere.

        1. America was founded by religious fanatics who happened to be out of favor in their homeland, and who happened to possess immunities not available to the natives whose land they invaded.

          Having by far the world’s biggest gun death problem is not evidence of any freedom we might have mustered since then.

          1. America was founded by religious fanatics

            [citation needed]

            Are you referring to the pilgrims? The actual founders (although they’re all just dead white guys) were not generally religiously fanatical. They were mostly well studied in religion, as was expected for the educated class at the time.

            1. The founding fathers like Adams, Jefferson, Madison, et al were extremely educated people who could read and write Greek, Latin, French, knew ancient philosophy and on and on. Jefferson was an architect and a scientist. He took temperature readings throughout the day and valued education almost above everything else but for individual liberty. These were most certainly not religious fanatics.

              But don’t let facts get in the way of your projection.

          2. Having by far the world’s biggest gun death problem …

            Question begging.

            1. “Islamic mass terror? Heck, we have a bunch of suicides too!”
              /Tony

  50. NY Times pick:

    Jim C Flagstaff, AZ 1 hour ago
    Horror after murderous horror, Yet we change nothing. Already I’m hearing what will surely be a rising crescendo of cries about “Islamic terrorism” which will deafen us to reason, and lead us to ignore both the long, horrific history this country has of “Christian terrorism,” particularly against LGBT people, and of how the ready availability weapons of mass murder and the ease of their transport facilitate such horrors. We must keep in mind that the problem isn’t this or that religion, but mindsets and weapons that foster and enable such outrages to serve one or another ideological or religious zealotry. Violence is never a legitimate weapon in the battle of ideas, while the sorts of weapons that this killer apparently used have no place in civilian hands.

    There you have it straight from the old Ghey Lady.

    1. What about the violence that would be necessarily required to get the sorts of weapons this killer used out of civilian hands? That counts doesn’t it?

    2. “Violence is never a legitimate weapon in the battle of ideas…”

      I wonder if that guy was outraged by the calls to violence against Trump supporters?

      1. I’m sure this guy is totally cool with the police using force to arrest and shut down a bakery that refused to make a gay wedding cake.

        “Violence is never a legitimate weapon in the battle of- wait, that guy just refused to bake a cake for someone whose lifestyle he doesn’t approve of! POLICE!!! Lock and load your Glocks and apprehend that criminal!!”

    3. —long, horrific history this country has of “Christian terrorism,” particularly against LGBT people—

      Um, what?

      1. These are same people that call a man a woman just because they appear feminine and wish to be thought of as such. Words only have the meaning they want them to have at that moment in time. Their words are “meaning fluid.”

  51. Another NYT top comment pick:

    wp-nyc new york 1 hour ago
    The American public is so desensitized to the issue of assault rifles and semi-automatic ammo access at this point, that this issue is not even whispered in any of the comments on other media. The great nation of ‘Oceana’ is focused upon whether this assault by Omar Mateen, was a ‘lone wolf act of terrorism.’ Whatever the motives – the high death toll – 50 dead and 53 wounded and rising, was clearly linked to the type of semi-automatic rifle and ammunition legally available in the U.S. and particularly in Florida.

    The NRA will act as if this is a ‘quibble’ – as if the difference between 50 dead v. 10 is immaterial. Tell that to the families and friends of the dead.

    1. this issue is not even whispered in any of the comments on other media.

      lol

    2. “semi-automatic ammo”

      I see.

      1. I learn so much about guns from the NYT.

        Now I’m worried that some of my ammo may be full auto. Am I breaking the law?

        1. In a kleptocracy, the function of law is to break you.

  52. WaPo reports killer was a wife beater. this is my shocked face.

    A wife-beating security guard who murdered bunch of helpless people? How long ’til we find out he was a Police Academy washout?

    1. The guy was investigated by the FBI twice for ties to Islamic extremism. In Islam, beating your wife is often excused, right?

      1. Recommended.

        But “lightly

        1. Bitch ran right into my fist.

  53. The thing I’m happy about is that we all collectively paid billions of dollars in taxes to destabilize socialist and communist regimes in North Africa and the Middle East so that we could have the wonderful and peaceful democrats that rule there now.

    1. So Gaddafi was a socialist, eh? Thanks for the info.

    2. In what fucking way is that germane? To anything?

      1. You have to realize that AmSoc is totally unarmed when it comes to facts and logic. You’re punching down.

        1. The nationalsocialist’s real name is Cleavant Tupac D’shaun. He’s the Jamaican black guy who made the news by joining the ku-klux klavern. Like Robert Lewis Dear, we’re not supposed to make fun of him…

    3. You do realize what site this is?

    4. Waaaahh

      Pay attention to me

  54. Hillary Clinton’s last three Twitter messages:

    Hillary Clinton ?@HillaryClinton 17h17 hours ago
    Donald Trump considers his shuttered casinos a success because HE made millions.
    A man who thinks that way has no business being president.

    Hillary Clinton ?@HillaryClinton 4h4 hours ago
    Woke up to hear the devastating news from FL. As we wait for more information, my thoughts are with those affected by this horrific act. -H

    Hillary Clinton ?@HillaryClinton 3h3 hours ago
    Despert? con la devastadora noticia de FL. Mientras esperamos m?s informaci?n,mis pensamientos est?n con los afectados de este horrible acto

    It took an hour to run that message through google translate? Twitter is so stupid.

    1. Oh FFS what a pandering twit.

    2. While the casinos were operating, $ was made by the owner, the employees, & the suppliers, & maybe some contractors; this is a problem because eventually they went out of biz? Geo. Wash. is dead too.

  55. NYT pick “where were good guys w/ the guns?”

    D Levy Longmeadow, MA 1 hour ago
    Where were all the “good guys” who are supposed to be saving people in these kinds of tragedies? No, I do not mean first responders, I mean the “good guys with guns” the NRA keeps referencing. Too many guns, folks, and too many people afraid to stand up to the Gun Lobby. This is, sadly, the price we pay for cowardice. Will we ever be a true democracy again, when the will of the “people” is heard and responded to?

    Never mind that carrying a firearm into a bar is illegal in Florida.

    1. democracy = things I like

      1. “It’s not coercion, it’s democracy!”

    2. Never mind that the shooter was an ostensible good guy?security guard.

  56. However, Clinton said that Obama’s plan did not go nearly far enough? Clinton called for a 500% increase to Obama’s refugee resettlement operation…. This does not even include the larger permanent resettlement program that occurs through green cards, bringing total annual migration from the Muslim world to 182,000 a year under Clinton’s proposal? of which roughly 140,000 would be from the Middle East specifically, according to DHS data.

    To provide a more detailed breakdown of the numbers involved in Clinton’s proposal, here is approximately the Islamic migration that would occur in her first term under the minimum numbers she has put forward thus far:
    ? 374,000 Muslim refugees/asylees from the Middle East during her first term, based on DHS data.
    ? 420,000 Muslim refugees/asylees from the Muslim world during her first term.
    ? 560,000 permanent Muslim migrants from the Middle East during her first term.
    ? 730,000 permanent Muslim migrants from the Muslim world during her first term.

    Get ready for President Trump.

    1. Holy. Fucking. Shit. TWO MILLION?! Plus 182k a year is almost 3 million people in ONE TERM. That is fucking crazy. Dearbornistan is about to be a pretty big city.

      1. Hang on, I read that differently. I think 730,000 is the total. Still an insane amount, but not two million.

        1. Thanks. Yeah the article states that it’d be ~1.4 million total in her first term (including the green cards etc). Still a ton.

    2. Wow. Where does the official sanctified Libertarian doctrine stand on this? Surely even the staunchest free border libertarian would accept some vetting of who we do and do not let in.

      1. Let’s expose governments to free markets. It’ll be fun, c’mon.

      2. No, we’ve been told by Cytotoxic that any and all immigration is always a good thing. Anything else is the sin of “utilitarianism.”

        1. Indeed; all the blood spilt and rapes occurring in Euro-landia are simply deficits in, “Comparative Advantage,” for such weakness of the population, and any protestations are simply immoral and racist.

          Like Kennedy implied, “It’s the price we pay for freedom of movement!”

          It’s almost like the Islamo-Mohammedans have a right and moral imperative to do what they are doing.

    3. Frank is up thread assuring everyone that Islam has nothing to do with the violence its followers commit in its name. Things just happen. We can’t blame an ideology or religion for the violence its followers do. The Holocaust was Germany’s fault. Fascism had nothing to do with it.

      1. Fascism wasn’t popular in Germany. I think you mean Nazism.

  57. Update: gunman called 911 and pledged allegiance to ISIS before shootings.

    1. So they knew this dude was a terrorist and it still took 3 hours to go in and get him.

      1. Do you know how long it takes to put all that gear on, check the gear, get into a van, drive to the location, get out of the SWAT van, assess the situation, have a snack, reassess the situation, and then go in?

        I do. It takes three hours.

        1. Look Crusty, they get paid to shoot dogs and terrorize unarmed people in their homes. No one told them they would ever have to confront someone who might shoot back. What do you want from the police? Protection or something?

        2. Rushing in prematurely risks innocent overtime pay getting caught in a crossfire.

          1. The bitterness at which I laughed at this…. sigh.

        3. The donut shop doesn’t open until 4 AM…

      2. When religious fanatics spiked Tokyo subways with nerve gas, a large fraction of survivors were angrier at the government rescue response teams than at the addled mystical Trilbys.

    2. Well, at least his motives were altruistic and religious… Kinda makes you appreciate the pious half of the First Amendment, and shun that icky old Second Amendment.

  58. Well I just regretted going on Facebook.

    1. Calls to preemptively denounce any backlash muslim slaying that will certainly happen in the wake of this? Even though it pretty much never does.

      1. Standard issue gun control. No facts. No logic. Just wants a “serious conversation about guns”

  59. Scott updated: UPDATE: June is gay pride month and gay pride events are happening this weekend in West Hollywood. Police there this morning arrested a man with weapons and ammunition in his car, as well as an ingredient used to make pipe bombs. Read more here.

    Early Sunday, Santa Monica police received a call of a suspected prowler near Olympic Boulevard and 11th Street. Patrol officers responded and encountered an individual who told officers he was waiting for a friend. That led officers to inspect the car and find several weapons and a lot of ammunition as well as tannerite, an ingredient that could be used to create a pipe bomb.

    The car had Indiana plates. The man made comments that he was in town for the Pride event in West Hollywood this weekend. The source said authorities did not know of any connection between the gay nightclub shooting in Orlando, Fla., early Sunday morning and the Santa Monica incident. The investigation has been taken over by the FBI.

    A city official in West Hollywood also confirmed the arrest and stressed that officials were beefing up security at the gay pride event.

    “They found him with weapons that were very disconcerting,” said the source, adding officials are “taking the appropriate safety precautions.”

    My emphasis. Heh.

    1. They need to beef up the numbers so they can have plenty of people to stand around and watch as people get murdered.

      This is fucked up. But hey, Frank assures me this has nothing to do with Islam. So why worry? What are the chances of there being another nut to show up at that parade?

    2. find several weapons and a lot of ammunition as well as tannerite, an ingredient that could be used to create a pipe bomb

      Tannerite is sold and used for exploding targets. More likely the guy was out doing some shooting out in the desert. It’s manufactured in Oregon. Maybe he picked it up on the way to CA?

      1. The more I read about the West Hollywood news, I get the sense that a guy with out-of-state plates chose the worst possible day to meet up with buddy at the Pride Parade with plans to go drive out into the desert and shoot targets.

  60. https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/236060/

    The FBI is already circling the wagons that Marteen was just ‘one of hundreds’ of ISIS,’ Patrick Poole adds. “This is not the first time that the gay community has been targeted by would-be jihadists. In fact, an imam speaking in Orlando in April said that killing gays according to Islamic law should be done ‘out of compassion.’

    But this has nothing to do with Islam. Nothing at all. Come on Frank, tell me more about how this was just a lone nut.

    1. Fd’Atoxic reminds me of my dad in that way. Every time something like this happened, he used to say that “It’s just a sick person.” Such a defense mechanism, motivated by a wish that no one would ever choose to do something so heinous, unfortunately prevents people from facing the hard truths that go hand in hand with such incidents.

      1. Real evil is much worse and more frightening than fake evil. Fake evil is just some monster that could never be you or someone you know. Real evil is someone choosing to be a monster because they have rationalized doing so as justified and right.

      2. Such a defense mechanism, motivated by a wish that no one would ever choose to do something so heinous, unfortunately prevents people from facing the hard truths that go hand in hand with such incidents.

        And what do you propose we do about it?

        Last I checked, our system punishes those who commit crimes. But go ahead…serve it up…I’d honestly like to hear your plan for preventing this occurrence.

        1. Trump could promise to nuke Mecca… AFTER I get some bets down for him to win at the current odds over at Paddypower and Oddschecker.

  61. : Sources are telling the media that Mateen called 911 right before the attack to declare allegiance to ISIS.

    Still, there’s no reason to start jumping to conclusions.

    1. More like throwing to conclusions.

      1. More like conclusions smacking you in the face.

        1. Conclusion kicking you in the nuts

  62. Patrol officers responded and encountered an individual who told officers he was waiting for a friend. That led officers to inspect the car and find several weapons and a lot of ammunition as well as tannerite, an ingredient that could be used to create a pipe bomb.

    The car had Indiana plates.

    Poor guy probably just wanted to go out in the desert and shoot his guns and blow some stuff up with his buddy. Now he’s fucked.

    *I say this in all seriousness.

    1. Yes. His presence does not mean he is a terrorist.

      1. Nope. I can’t imagine the problems that would happen if you just went out that morning, not even knowing what you were driving into. What a mess.
        I’m sure we will have some Orlando strong.

      2. If he is so stupid he didn’t realize what a bad idea it was to show up with a bunch of weapons at a gay pride parade this morning, it was probably a good idea to arrest him before he hurt himself.

        1. Or trek a bunch of guns that he knew (or was too stupid to look up) were going to be illegal in a different state.

  63. Trump’s tweet today:

    Horrific incident in FL. Praying for all the victims & their families. When will this stop? When will we get tough, smart & vigilant?

    You have to admit, the guy is good at messaging.

    1. That was pretty much a perfect response. He’s not going to overplay his hand here. He’s just going to wait for Hillary (or whoever mismanages her Twitter account) to make a mistake.

      1. “Delete your account!11!!!”

  64. I hate to say it, but this is probably nothing compared to what you will see in Europe very soon.

    1. But hyp, they have gun control.

    2. Yep. Those Kristallnacht laws make damn sure non-christians and sinners can’t shoot back.

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