Donald Trump

"I'm Happy To See the Republican Party Disintegrate"…But Trump Is a Disaster From a Libertarian POV

What I told The Real News about The Donald and the libertarian alternative.

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The other day I was on The Real News discussing the "libertarian challenge to [Donald] Trump."

Click above to watch the interview, in which I note that the Republican Party has long co-opted libertarian rhetoric while growing the size, scope, and spending of government at nearly every turn. While I'm happy to witness the possible end—or same thing, complete reboot—of the GOP, I'm always worried by the rise of Donald Trump. Not because he represents the absolute end of the American Way of Life per se, but because he is in fact a perfect distillation of the conservative agenda that has been pushed for the entire 21st century.

That said, if Trump—whom Ted Cruz and National Review have assailed for being soft on immigration—got his way on deporting 12 million (his count) illegals, he would certainly have to create a reasonable facsimile of a police state, in which we'd all be having our papers checked one way or another. So there is that.

About 9 minutes.

NEXT: No Religious Test for Immigrants to U.S.: Freedom of Religion Act of 2016

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  1. And it continues. What about Gary Johnson? What about Hillary? Hello?

    1. There isn’t going to be a wall. Pretty sure Trump just uses that as a negotiation tactic?i.e. start from an extreme position and force others to compromise in your direction.

      It’s also an easy, concrete way of talking about border policy that gets people fixated on the topic.

      1. This is the genius behind Trumps appeal, He’s just negotiating so no one knows what his real position is and everyone can just assume that it aligns with theirs. If you’re a die hard xenophobe he’s the tough guy who will git er done, if you’re an “enforce the laws we got and seal the border within reason” then he’s just jockeying to get where you want him to be. Everyone wins.

        1. This is the genius behind Trumps appeal, He’s just negotiating so no one knows what his real position is and everyone can just assume that it aligns with theirs.

          Not to mention that if you polled 100 people off the street to explain Trump’s position on immigration in one word you’d get ‘wall’ ~90% of the time and ‘tough’ the other 10% while if you asked the same position about his Ass-for-a-lion opponent, I think you’d be lucky to get the same word more than 5 times with ‘Huh?’ and ‘Dunno?’ being among the top finishers.

      2. Of course he’s not considering building a wall. Trump is too business savvy to believe any bullshit like that. He’s playing the game and he’s winning. I just ignore the bullshit and watch him for his genuine policy ideas. The one that is most concerning to me is on trade. He actually might really believe that bullshit. I think he actually does believe it, the moment I realized that was the moment I knew I could never vote for this guy. His foreign policy actually sounds better than Hillary, a lot better. I’ll vote LP, again.

        1. I’m against protectionism as well.

          But also suspicious of “free trade” agreements negotiated between governments that likely don’t reflect actual free trade at all. Decent short article on that here:

          http://original.antiwar.com/ju…..ree-trade/

        2. Unless his protectionism threat is just to get other countries to drop THEIR barriers…

          1. Which is a waste of time. Unilateral free trade is still better than protectionism. Trade barriers on the *other* side are simply screwing over their own people. Worst you can say is it has no effect on American consumers and can actually even be beneficial to us.

            That it might have harmful effects to a *subset of American producers*? Don’t care.

        3. Of course he’s not considering building a wall

          So Trump is talking like a dumbfuck as part of some master plan. What a genius!
          Thanks for clarifying. /sarc

          I’ll go slowly.
          The United States has had a negative-replacement birthrate for several years now.
          That means our population would be declining if there was no immigration.
          Plug that into Social Security and Medicare. (gasp)
          Back in the days of the Greenspan Commission, part of the rightwing hysteria was that there would soon be only two workers supporting each retiree, with MASSIVE taxpes. An Assistant Treasury Secretary under Reagan smashed it to pieces by saying the economy could not function with s few workers, “Long before that happened, we’d increase immigration.”

          That was over 30 years ago.

          I keep wondering why Donald gets away with saying that none of his bankruptcies were personal … as if that amounted to a hill of beans. In all his bankruptcies, the people who got screwed are the people who trusted him. Are you among his next victims? Or just any young kids and future grandkids of yours?

  2. Come on Nick, I can’t wait hear you make the libertarian case for Hillary, I know it’s coming.

    Seriously why the boner for open borders? Every criticism of Trump I hear from you guys is about immigration.

    1. Trump supports Obamacare (just not the name), he is against freer trade and for big tariffs, he recently suggested that the US partially default on its debt, he loves Eminent Domain, he wants to go steal Iraq’s oil, he wants to kill the Iran anti-nuke deal and possibly go to war with them – Reason has written on all of this.

      1. All perfectly good reasons to be Trump-Averse, but you mainly don’t like him because he has an R by his name. After all, Hillary is against freer trade and for big tarriffs (see her backtracking on TPP), is all for ignoring our debt problems (wants free college for all, single payer, and endless war), loves some eminent domain, voted for Iraq and every ill-conceived Middle East intervention, and manged to fuck up the Russian Reset. But since she has a D by her name, you are willing to overlook these hangups.

        1. No, I don’t support her at all and never claimed to.

          One big reason is because she backtracked on TPP. Another is the Iraq War. Another is that her sole legislation she authored as a Senator was a restriction on violent video games.

          1. Palin’s Buttplug,
            Buy a clue. /sarc

            In the bipolar universe, you MUST be for EITHER Hillary or Trump. (or hold out for Bernie vs Trump) That”s how they bully and intimidate. Pick a side, Conform. It’s the American Way, and has been for decades (or centuries).

      2. So if we kill the nuke deal, we have to go to war with Iran. That makes complete sense to an idiot I’m sure.

        Just say you support Hillary, Shreek, you’ll feel better.

        1. Why kill it? It is working nicely.

          Of course in Bizarro GOP Land nothing the Kenyan has done worked – even the night raid to kill bin Laden.

          1. I didn’t say we should kill it. I asked why it means going to war if we do kill it? I’m not for going to war with anyone if we can avoid it and I support free trade, which is one reason I could never back Trump.

          2. “…It is working nicely.”

            And Obumblecare is a free market solution.

      3. Trump supports Obamacare so much he says he wants to repeal it. Notice the way he sticks in the ‘and replace it’ sub line.

        Shreek isn’t smart enough to see that. Shreek be good cankle licker for Hillary, good cankle licker.

        That doesn’t mean I believe anything that Trump says. I’ve repeatedly said I do not. But this guy right here is a die hard Democrat, no matter who the candidate is.

        1. He wants to repeal Obamacare and replace it with a government subsidized market for health insurance (his own words).

          Basically, he is as stupid as your average GOP idiot like yourself and doesn’t know what the ACA is.

          1. I fully understand what the ACA is, dumbshit. The ACA is:

            higher premiums

            longer wait times

            astronomically higher deductibles

            Go fuck yourself, you democrat hack.

            1. Go fuck yourself, you democrat hack.

              UImmm. name a libertarian or conservative alternative, you brainwashed-by-soundbites puppet.

              Medicare vouchers increase competition IN THE WRONG MARKET. Tell us, Sluggo, can we affect auto prices with more competition between Allstate and GEICO? Selling across state lines is the same laughable fuckup.

              So the “champions of free markets” focus on the wrong market. Medicare has always had competition in the relevant market, but seniors have no “skin in the game.” DUH.

              In the private market, consumer incentives would put everyone into high-deductible MSAs, which is NOT how auto and home insurance work. (Do you have either?)

              Ridicule Obamacare for putting low-income households into $3,000 deductible healthcare . But stand and cheer when Cato (and Hyperion) say the same thing! Tribalism Triumphant!

              you democrat hack.

              What’s your alternative? “Git gummint out” is NOT a credible alternative. Not when Medicare swallows a subsidy from INCOME TAXES of a quarter-trillion dollars per year

              you democrat hack.

              No more manipulated than you. But your tribe is superior because ………..

              (We don’t NEED alternatives. Just act like mouthy thugs. YEAH!)

              ,

        2. Donald Trump Wants to Repeal Obamacare, Replace It With Obamacare

          https://reason.com/blog/2015/09…..bamacare-r

          Just admit you have a crush on The Donald.

  3. Well the only way I can see Trump being good for liberty is if his election caused millions of big gov nanny state progs to leave the country. Of course they always promise but never deliver.

    1. Yeah, sadly, that’s not going to happen. Even Cytotoxic won’t leave. Sigh…

  4. There’s a lot more potential libertarian moments from a Trump administration than you could ever hope for from Jeb!

    1. Trump could actually, possibly, do something libertarian by total accident. The odds of that happening with a Hillary administration is virtually zero.

      1. Interestingly, Lew Rockwell and Justin Raimondo are pro-Trump. The argument being that Trump has been pissing off all the worst people in government the most.

        1. The argument being that Trump has been pissing off all the worst people in government the most.

          This is why he’s been so successful in his bid. We are experiencing an anti-establishment moment. Unfortunately, Reason writers wrongly identify that as a ‘libertarian’ moment, which it is not anymore than the Bolsheviks were a libertarian moment or the Hitler youth were a libertarian moment. I’m not comparing Trump with either of those, like the corrupt media are, I’m just saying there is a similarity.

          1. Remember when Nick and Matt wrote a book about “Independents”? Turns out they’re almost all supporting Bernie Sanders.

            1. Turns out they’re almost all supporting Bernie Sanders.

              They also IGNORE the “Nolan libertarians” who are 59% of the voters and have tens of thousands in elected local offices. They don’t advance the Paulista Cult narrative.

              Face it. The libertarian establishment is just as corrupt as the other two,. The lust for power corrupts. But so does the lust for donors.

        2. Which is a really awful way to endorse a candidate.

          1. That’s the anti-government mentality which has essentially driven the pro-liberty movement. out of libertraianism.

  5. I’m Happy To See the Republican Party Disintegrate”…But Trump Is a Disaster From a Libertarian POV

    It’s not Trump that’s a disaster for the LP, it’s Trump getting elected that would be the disaster. Trump is not going to get elected without a majority of the Republican Party and he’s not going to get that unless a majority of the Republican Party agrees that, to hell with it, we’ll be the party of big government, too, if that’s what it takes to get elected. And from what I can tell of Republican-ish Trump supporters, that’s exactly what they intend – we tried opposing the Dems and got nowhere, let’s try embracing the Dems and see what happens.The American people want more liberal policies, higher taxes, more regulation, more spending? Fine, that’s what we’ll want, too.It can’t get any worse can it? I mean, so what if we have to abandon all pretense at having any principles? Where did having principles ever get us?

    So if Trump gets elected, it means he didn’t destroy the Republican Party at all, just purged it of anybody with any principles. And thereby made it stronger.

    1. The Republican Party IS the “party of big government”.

      1. The Republican Party IS the “party of big government”.

        They both are

    2. The American people want more liberal policies, higher taxes, more regulation, more spending?

      59% of them would accept the description of fiscally conservative and socially liberal.
      90% of the pro-liberty lovers have abandoned (or rejected) libertarianism which has become anti-government instead of pro-liberty.

      1. 99% of them will vote for the person with the R or D next to their names regardless of what anyone does. They say “A”, they do “B”.

        1. So THAT is why the pollsters are 99% accurate!

          1. Considering you are the one using a poll to show your point, being sarcastic about how accurate polls are seems to undermine your point.

            1. That was ridiculing your 99% .
              WHOOOSH

              1. I know, you just didn’t understand the ramifications of your own ridicule. Not understanding the ramifications of your own beliefs is pretty typical of the way you reason.

                1. . Not understanding the ramifications of your own beliefs is pretty typical of the way you reason.

                  You fucked up, not knowing it was ridicule, so change your attack. (lol)

                  Pay attention.
                  If your assertion was true (or sane), then polls would be 99% accurate. (Still confused? If your bullshit is correct that 99% of voters are predictable then NO POLLS ARE NEEDED! OMG).
                  Since polls are not 99% accurate, then you’re full of shit.
                  You also assume all those parties and corporations spending tens of millions on polling are fucking stupid … compared to you..

                  Also crazy for you to assume that 99% of voters are straight party-line Democrats and Republicans.

                  All because my statement of fact is “inconvenient” to you .. or you know more than every pollster on the planet.

                  Still confused? Change your excuse again? More childish insults? Can you cite a source for your claim that 99% of voters are party-line Rs or Ds?

                  You also ass-ume that campaigning in general elections is to maximize turnout of your own voters, Pollsters lie about swing voters — part of the Grand Prog Conspiracy?

                  Have you been stalking me for months because I humiliate you (like this)?

                  (more ridicule).

                  If anyone is following this insanity. watch the blowhard keep defending his original claim … which attacks Cato Institute and Zogby polling.

                  (my tone is self-defense of aggression by a thug. They KEEP attacking, regardless of how foolish)

  6. “… Trump Is a Disaster From a Libertarian POV…”

    No mention of the Dems being exponentially worse. Bernie will have you shut the fuck up Nick…he thinks govt control of the media is a great idea. You think shutting down the occasional subpoena is a big deal? Go ahead, vote Dem.

    Hillary…where do I begin?

    I haven’t been able to keep up lately so maybe I missed it, where is the mention of the Kremlin having all of Hillary’s correspondence while SOS?

    Trump is awful with regards to property rights, the Dems with regards to the very notion of inherent rights. Let’s cut off our own nose to spite the R’s again.

    I am more anxious to see the tone around here this time next year than to see who wins the election. That is, if this site is still up.

    1. No mention of the Dems being exponentially worse. Bernie will have you shut the fuck up Nick…he thinks govt control of the media is a great idea. You think shutting down the occasional subpoena is a big deal? Go ahead, vote Dem.

      Hillary…where do I begin?

      To be fair, we could say it’s already a well-established known among most here that Dems would be horrible. Not a controversial conclusion.

      Surprised this isn’t being reported yet though, seems significant: http://www.washingtontimes.com…..-disaster/

      Both parties going into meltdown?

      Trump is awful with regards to property rights, the Dems with regards to the very notion of inherent rights. Let’s cut off our own nose to spite the R’s again.

      I try to think of it in terms who’s more likely to implement sweeping general policy changes fundamentally destructive to certain rights. Trump may show himself to be ideologically inconsistent in particular situations for sake of a specific goal, but at least seems less likely to advocate ideological-driven shifts in policy that’d permanently ruin a given right for everyone.

    2. No mention of the Dems being exponentially worse

      “He started it, Mommy,”
      (laughing)

  7. Oh thank god, finally, the real news.

  8. Nick calls everyone a disaster.

    I think he has a template he plugs names into.

    1. So Bra Ket favors Bernie, Hillary, Trump AND Cruz.
      Because he can.

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  10. Nick again lies about Reagan, ignoring the libertarianism of Goldwater and Reagan as he echoes Progs.

    When Goldwater died, I cringed at the LP convention’s tribute . I was pleasantly surprised by the standing ovation. Today’s Reasonoids know nothing of libertarianism or New Federalism, screeching that only purists are fiscally conservative and socially liberal,.

    LIBERALS killed Reagan’s spending cuts, estimated by Cato at over $10 trillion by now, then blame Reagan for the deficits THEY created. Nick stands with Progs here, too,

    Reagan’s and Kennedy’s identical tax cuts launched the ONLY peacetime booms in 90 years. But Reagan never said repeal the income tax and run the government on FICA taxes. ( Ron Paul is too stupid to know that 40% of MedIcare is financed by INCOME TAXES!).

    Reagan and Goldwater were aggressively defending gays two decades before it became fashionable. Can’t say that without exposing the Pauls as statist bigots.

    Nick claims a libertarian moment, proven partly by increased social tolerance. ALSO proven by the two most prominent libertarians who are extreme social conservatives. And in public opinion, we LOSE on EVERY fiscal issue.

    Nick goes ape shit on independents, 30% of which are collectivists, but IGNORES Nolan libertarians, 59% of voters with thousands in public office. Because they SPIT on Ron/Rand Paul.

    Orwell’s 1984 included Newspeak. Now the language of Reason.com. Power to the sheeple.

  11. ” While I’m happy to witness the possible end?or same thing, complete reboot?of the GOP, I’m always worried by the rise of Donald Trump. ”

    Should not being happy about this development be dependent on what replaces the Republicans? In fact, burning down the Republicans as they existed gets you Trump, and that makes you concerned. Maybe taking down was not a solution to anything?

    1. This is the anti-gummint mentality at work.
      Which has driven 90% of the libertarians out of the movement-now-a-cult,

  12. A growing movement of Libertarians at #LFT (and Lew Rockwell… aside from the critical antagonized establishment marionettes) who can tell the difference between knee jerk politics and successful grassroots campaigns realize that theDonald currently has the only campaign poised to dismantle the warfare-welfare state. When he says they “lied” (not just being duped by their “bad intelligence”) about Iraq, he accuses them of knowingly committing fraud against the US citizens which led to the pointless astronomically expensive unjustifiable slaughter of more Americans than died on 9/11 and massacres of more than a hundred thousand innocent foreigners. So, Trump makes the case for indicting the war criminals from Bush to Hillary to Obama and their co-conspirators in the MIC. LibertariansForTrump.org

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