"I'm Happy To See the Republican Party Disintegrate"…But Trump Is a Disaster From a Libertarian POV

What I told The Real News about The Donald and the libertarian alternative.

The other day I was on The Real News discussing the "libertarian challenge to [Donald] Trump."

Click above to watch the interview, in which I note that the Republican Party has long co-opted libertarian rhetoric while growing the size, scope, and spending of government at nearly every turn. While I'm happy to witness the possible end—or same thing, complete reboot—of the GOP, I'm always worried by the rise of Donald Trump. Not because he represents the absolute end of the American Way of Life per se, but because he is in fact a perfect distillation of the conservative agenda that has been pushed for the entire 21st century.

That said, if Trump—whom Ted Cruz and National Review have assailed for being soft on immigration—got his way on deporting 12 million (his count) illegals, he would certainly have to create a reasonable facsimile of a police state, in which we'd all be having our papers checked one way or another. So there is that.

About 9 minutes.

Comments

[Hyperion]

And it continues. What about Gary Johnson? What about Hillary? Hello?

[mfckr]

There isn't going to be a wall. Pretty sure Trump just uses that as a negotiation tactic?i.e. start from an extreme position and force others to compromise in your direction.

It's also an easy, concrete way of talking about border policy that gets people fixated on the topic.

[The Hyperbole]

This is the genius behind Trumps appeal, He's just negotiating so no one knows what his real position is and everyone can just assume that it aligns with theirs. If you're a die hard xenophobe he's the tough guy who will git er done, if you're an "enforce the laws we got and seal the border within reason" then he's just jockeying to get where you want him to be. Everyone wins.

[mad.casual]

This is the genius behind Trumps appeal, He's just negotiating so no one knows what his real position is and everyone can just assume that it aligns with theirs.

Not to mention that if you polled 100 people off the street to explain Trump's position on immigration in one word you'd get 'wall' ~90% of the time and 'tough' the other 10% while if you asked the same position about his Ass-for-a-lion opponent, I think you'd be lucky to get the same word more than 5 times with 'Huh?' and 'Dunno?' being among the top finishers.

[Hyperion]

Of course he's not considering building a wall. Trump is too business savvy to believe any bullshit like that. He's playing the game and he's winning. I just ignore the bullshit and watch him for his genuine policy ideas. The one that is most concerning to me is on trade. He actually might really believe that bullshit. I think he actually does believe it, the moment I realized that was the moment I knew I could never vote for this guy. His foreign policy actually sounds better than Hillary, a lot better. I'll vote LP, again.

[mfckr]

I'm against protectionism as well.

But also suspicious of "free trade" agreements negotiated between governments that likely don't reflect actual free trade at all. Decent short article on that here:

http://original.antiwar.com/ju.....ree-trade/

[Bubba Jones]

Unless his protectionism threat is just to get other countries to drop THEIR barriers...

[Agammamon]

Which is a waste of time. Unilateral free trade is still better than protectionism. Trade barriers on the *other* side are simply screwing over their own people. Worst you can say is it has no effect on American consumers and can actually even be beneficial to us.

That it might have harmful effects to a *subset of American producers*? Don't care.

[Libertarians For Trump]

Exactly

[MetalBard]

Come on Nick, I can't wait hear you make the libertarian case for Hillary, I know it's coming.

Seriously why the boner for open borders? Every criticism of Trump I hear from you guys is about immigration.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Trump supports Obamacare (just not the name), he is against freer trade and for big tariffs, he recently suggested that the US partially default on its debt, he loves Eminent Domain, he wants to go steal Iraq's oil, he wants to kill the Iran anti-nuke deal and possibly go to war with them - Reason has written on all of this.

[The Last American Hero]

All perfectly good reasons to be Trump-Averse, but you mainly don't like him because he has an R by his name. After all, Hillary is against freer trade and for big tarriffs (see her backtracking on TPP), is all for ignoring our debt problems (wants free college for all, single payer, and endless war), loves some eminent domain, voted for Iraq and every ill-conceived Middle East intervention, and manged to fuck up the Russian Reset. But since she has a D by her name, you are willing to overlook these hangups.

[Palin's Buttplug]

No, I don't support her at all and never claimed to.

One big reason is because she backtracked on TPP. Another is the Iraq War. Another is that her sole legislation she authored as a Senator was a restriction on violent video games.

[Hyperion]

So if we kill the nuke deal, we have to go to war with Iran. That makes complete sense to an idiot I'm sure.

Just say you support Hillary, Shreek, you'll feel better.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Why kill it? It is working nicely.

Of course in Bizarro GOP Land nothing the Kenyan has done worked - even the night raid to kill bin Laden.

[Hyperion]

I didn't say we should kill it. I asked why it means going to war if we do kill it? I'm not for going to war with anyone if we can avoid it and I support free trade, which is one reason I could never back Trump.

[PapayaSF]

Oh yeah, it's working great. The Iranians are our friends now, and will be certain to abide by the nuke agreement.

[Suthenboy]

"...It is working nicely."

And Obumblecare is a free market solution.

[Hyperion]

Trump supports Obamacare so much he says he wants to repeal it. Notice the way he sticks in the 'and replace it' sub line.

Shreek isn't smart enough to see that. Shreek be good cankle licker for Hillary, good cankle licker.

That doesn't mean I believe anything that Trump says. I've repeatedly said I do not. But this guy right here is a die hard Democrat, no matter who the candidate is.

[Palin's Buttplug]

He wants to repeal Obamacare and replace it with a government subsidized market for health insurance (his own words).

Basically, he is as stupid as your average GOP idiot like yourself and doesn't know what the ACA is.

[Hyperion]

I fully understand what the ACA is, dumbshit. The ACA is:

higher premiums

longer wait times

astronomically higher deductibles

Go fuck yourself, you democrat hack.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Donald Trump Wants to Repeal Obamacare, Replace It With Obamacare

http://reason.com/blog/2015/09.....bamacare-r

Just admit you have a crush on The Donald.

[AlmightyJB]

Well the only way I can see Trump being good for liberty is if his election caused millions of big gov nanny state progs to leave the country. Of course they always promise but never deliver.

[Hyperion]

Yeah, sadly, that's not going to happen. Even Cytotoxic won't leave. Sigh...

[SIV]

There's a lot more potential libertarian moments from a Trump administration than you could ever hope for from Jeb!

[Hyperion]

Trump could actually, possibly, do something libertarian by total accident. The odds of that happening with a Hillary administration is virtually zero.

[mfckr]

Interestingly, Lew Rockwell and Justin Raimondo are pro-Trump. The argument being that Trump has been pissing off all the worst people in government the most.

[Hyperion]

The argument being that Trump has been pissing off all the worst people in government the most.

This is why he's been so successful in his bid. We are experiencing an anti-establishment moment. Unfortunately, Reason writers wrongly identify that as a 'libertarian' moment, which it is not anymore than the Bolsheviks were a libertarian moment or the Hitler youth were a libertarian moment. I'm not comparing Trump with either of those, like the corrupt media are, I'm just saying there is a similarity.

[SIV]

Remember when Nick and Matt wrote a book about "Independents"? Turns out they're almost all supporting Bernie Sanders.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Which is a really awful way to endorse a candidate.

[Jerryskids]

I'm Happy To See the Republican Party Disintegrate"...But Trump Is a Disaster From a Libertarian POV

It's not Trump that's a disaster for the LP, it's Trump getting elected that would be the disaster. Trump is not going to get elected without a majority of the Republican Party and he's not going to get that unless a majority of the Republican Party agrees that, to hell with it, we'll be the party of big government, too, if that's what it takes to get elected. And from what I can tell of Republican-ish Trump supporters, that's exactly what they intend - we tried opposing the Dems and got nowhere, let's try embracing the Dems and see what happens.The American people want more liberal policies, higher taxes, more regulation, more spending? Fine, that's what we'll want, too.It can't get any worse can it? I mean, so what if we have to abandon all pretense at having any principles? Where did having principles ever get us?

So if Trump gets elected, it means he didn't destroy the Republican Party at all, just purged it of anybody with any principles. And thereby made it stronger.

[SIV]

The Republican Party IS the "party of big government".

[Suthenboy]

"... Trump Is a Disaster From a Libertarian POV..."

No mention of the Dems being exponentially worse. Bernie will have you shut the fuck up Nick...he thinks govt control of the media is a great idea. You think shutting down the occasional subpoena is a big deal? Go ahead, vote Dem.

Hillary...where do I begin?

I haven't been able to keep up lately so maybe I missed it, where is the mention of the Kremlin having all of Hillary's correspondence while SOS?

Trump is awful with regards to property rights, the Dems with regards to the very notion of inherent rights. Let's cut off our own nose to spite the R's again.

I am more anxious to see the tone around here this time next year than to see who wins the election. That is, if this site is still up.

[mfckr]

No mention of the Dems being exponentially worse. Bernie will have you shut the fuck up Nick...he thinks govt control of the media is a great idea. You think shutting down the occasional subpoena is a big deal? Go ahead, vote Dem.

Hillary...where do I begin?

To be fair, we could say it's already a well-established known among most here that Dems would be horrible. Not a controversial conclusion.

Surprised this isn't being reported yet though, seems significant: http://www.washingtontimes.com.....-disaster/

Both parties going into meltdown?

Trump is awful with regards to property rights, the Dems with regards to the very notion of inherent rights. Let's cut off our own nose to spite the R's again.

I try to think of it in terms who's more likely to implement sweeping general policy changes fundamentally destructive to certain rights. Trump may show himself to be ideologically inconsistent in particular situations for sake of a specific goal, but at least seems less likely to advocate ideological-driven shifts in policy that'd permanently ruin a given right for everyone.

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

Oh thank god, finally, the real news.

[Bra Ket]

Nick calls everyone a disaster.

I think he has a template he plugs names into.

[marrythomas444]

Most of us want to have good income but don't know how to do thaat on Internet there are a lot of methods to earn money at home, so I thought to share with you a genuine and guaranteed method for free to earn huge sum of money at home anyone of you interested should visit the site. More than sure that you will get best result.OI3..

====== http://www.Reportmax90.com

[Mickey Rat]

" While I'm happy to witness the possible end?or same thing, complete reboot?of the GOP, I'm always worried by the rise of Donald Trump. "

Should not being happy about this development be dependent on what replaces the Republicans? In fact, burning down the Republicans as they existed gets you Trump, and that makes you concerned. Maybe taking down was not a solution to anything?

[Libertarians For Trump]

A growing movement of Libertarians at #LFT (and Lew Rockwell... aside from the critical antagonized establishment marionettes) who can tell the difference between knee jerk politics and successful grassroots campaigns realize that theDonald currently has the only campaign poised to dismantle the warfare-welfare state. When he says they "lied" (not just being duped by their "bad intelligence") about Iraq, he accuses them of knowingly committing fraud against the US citizens which led to the pointless astronomically expensive unjustifiable slaughter of more Americans than died on 9/11 and massacres of more than a hundred thousand innocent foreigners. So, Trump makes the case for indicting the war criminals from Bush to Hillary to Obama and their co-conspirators in the MIC. LibertariansForTrump.org

[ace_m82]

99% of them will vote for the person with the R or D next to their names regardless of what anyone does. They say "A", they do "B".

[ace_m82]

Considering you are the one using a poll to show your point, being sarcastic about how accurate polls are seems to undermine your point.

[ace_m82]

I know, you just didn't understand the ramifications of your own ridicule. Not understanding the ramifications of your own beliefs is pretty typical of the way you reason.