Bernie Sanders' Campaign Lawyers Do Not Appreciate Your "Bernie is My Comrade" T-Shirt

Does the Sanders campaign respect the First Amendment rights to satire and parody?

Liberty Maniacs, a Minnesota-based

Liberty Maniacs

"independent brand that designs and sells some of the world's favorite political and satirical apparel and merchandise," was served with a notice of infringement last week from Garvey, Schubert, Barer, the legal firm officially representing Bernie Sanders' presidential campaign.

At issue is a T-shirt (which was unveiled last November) featuring the democratic socialist senator from Vermont beside some other socialist icons, namely philosophers Karl Marx and Freidrich Engels and their dictatorial admirers Vladimir Lenin, Joseph Stalin, and Mao Zedong, positioned over the words "Bernie IS MY COMRADE." The word "Bernie" appears to be in the same font as the official Bernie 2016 logo, and the parody design also apes the campaign's use of two wavy lines beneath the candidate's name.

Liberty Maniacs founder Dan McCall told Reason in a phone call today that taking the five-point star that appears above the letter "i" in the "Bernie" logo and altering it to make it resemble the revolutionary communist red star is a classic example of parody, which is protected by the First Amendment.

Here's how Liberty Maniacs pitched the plainly satirical T-shirt to customers on its Facebook page:

With the lovable personality of a drowsy badger and the voice of a bullfrog, Bernie is your comrade in fighting the good fight against oligarchical imperialism, exploitative corporatism, economic logic, electoral probability, male pattern baldness, Clintonian coronation, and whatever other Sisyphean task you can shake your fist at.

This shirt includes a pantheon of socialist paladins just to confuse, fascinate, and cause the finger-wagging, nitpicking partisan to hilariously instruct upon the proper definition of socialism while everyone within a five foot radius rolls their eyes in aversion.

Claire Hawkins, one of the lawyers from Garvey, Schubert, Barer, penned the letter demanding Liberty Maniacs "cease and desist" and "destroy and/or take offline all materials" bearing the Bernie 2016 official logo. Hawkins added:

As an intellectual property owner, our client is obligated to take steps to protect its trademark and copyright rights and to protect the good will built up in its name and brand. 

McCall's attorney Paul Levy replied to Hawkins in a letter published online, in which he accused the firm of "trademark bullying":

It is your contention, apparently, that an ordinary and reasonably prudent consumer would tend to be confused about whether it is the Sanders campaign that is promoting Sanders' candidacy by associating him with the 19th century theoreticians of the communist movement as well as with three ruthless Communist Party dictators. 

That contention is absurd. You cannot use trademark theories to silence members of the American public who disagree with your client's views and oppose his candidacy.

McCall told Reason that his past experiences of legal fallout when satirically "punching up" at powerful figures and institutions like the National Security Agency (NSA) and Hillary Clinton have imbued in him the understanding that the "legal shorthand to determine if something is a parody" regarding trademarks is "if a moron in a hurry can recognize it's a parody, it's a parody" and not copyright infringement.

By contending that "potential [Sanders] supporters could be confused" by the "Bernie is My Comrade" shirts, McCall says the firm is essentially saying that Sanders supporters are "idiots." McCall added, "If the Sanders campaign is giving these lawyers carte blanche to run roughshod over people's First Amendment rights, that's an issue."

This isn't the first time Garvey, Schubert, Barer have played hardball over the use of the Bernie 2016 logo. This past January they ordered Wikipedia to remove Sanders' campaign logos from their website under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). 

Reason reached out to Garvey, Schubert, Barer, as well as the Sanders campaign. Neither was immediately available for comment. 

Comments

[Hyperion]

Imagine if someone wore one of those on a campus. The snowflakes would be triggered.

[Playa Manhattan.]

They're always in a hurry.

[Quixote]

No, as pointed out by Ken Shultz directly below, far from being "plain," this so-called "satire" is confusingly deadpan, and hence the "protections" accorded to it may very well not come into play. This is very damaging to Mr. Sanders' reputation, and as such should be a worthy subject for a small expansion of our criminal code during the next administration. See the documentation of America's leading criminal "satire" case at:

http://raphaelgolbtrial.wordpress.com/

Special attention should be paid to the outrageous "First Amendment dissent" signed by a single, isolated, liberal judge. Luckily, most of our judicial authorities understand that sending out emails in which a distinguished, well-connected academic is outrageously portrayed as "confessing" to plagiarism and justifying it on the grounds that "if I had given credit to this man, I would have been banned from conferences around the world," is far too subtle a "parody" to receive constitutional protection.

[Ken Shultz]

I don't think so.

I think they wouldn't understand it as satire.

Poe's Law.

There are so many people out there who genuinely like Bernie because he's a socialist in that tradition . . .

You can't parody progressives and their hostility to our rights without accurately describing a lot of them. They don't find it offensive.

If St. Bernie is mad about this, it isn't because he's afraid college kids will think the shirt is making fun of him.

He's worried about how he'll be perceived by people in the center should he win the nomination.

[Heroic Mulatto]

I agree with Ken. You'd get a bunch of enthusiastic thumbs-up from unironic Che shirt wearers.

[Citizen X]

Che shirts that cost $22, paid for with mommy and daddy's credit card.

[LynchPin1477]

I don't think they would even recognize anyone on the shirt except Bernie.

[David Emami]

I got that sort of reaction to my "Comrade Obama" t-shirt a few years ago.

[generalisimo14]

I had a sweet one with the Obama logo turned into a Death Star, with Palpatine/Vader 2012. It was a thing of beauty.

[Neon Bible]

I got the same reaction from my "Reagan" shirt (that mimics the style of the classic Che shirt).

[Hyperion]

Just the facts that he is willing to force companies to pay a $15 minimum wage and says everyone is going to get free healthcare and college by raising everyone's income tax rates to unprecedented levels, would tell anyone with half a brain that the shirt is an accurate representation of Bernie. Anyone who is saying 'nuh uh, he's not a commie, he's a democratic socialists like the good kind in Sweden and Norway, they have better economies than us, so there!'... those are idiots.

[Ken Shultz]

The interesting thing to me is that a lot of people who see that shirt would buy it because they want a socialist like Bernie.

They see Bernie Sanders as a graduated improvement on Stalin. It's like looking at Hendrix on the cover of Axis: Bold as Love

http://www.musiclipse.com/wp-c.....lpaper.jpg

If they'd put Obama between Mao and Bernie on the t-shirt, they could sell 'em like hotcakes at the Democratic convention, for sure. From Stalin to Mao to Obama to Bernie Sanders--what's not to like?

[timbo]

Yall are all correct. The end mindset of all Marxists idiots is that they think the next socialists that comes along will not be corrupt or incapable.
The reason they are idiots is that they continue to think it can work with the right guy regardless of the myriad examples of utter failure and despair.

The height of idiocy is the Marxist; possible only because so many of them have no idea what they are supporting.
Followed shortly thereafter by the rampant neo-con "support the troops by sending them to never ending wars" dolt.

[sasob]

What makes you think socialism etc. doesn't work? Whether something works or not depends on what it was intended to accomplish in the first place - which may or may not be what one thought it was intended to accomplish.

[SQRLSY One]

All those other commies fucked it up 'cause they're not AMERICUNS... Bernie is an Americun, so HE will NOT fuck it up!

Duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[timbo]

It works if your intension is the bankrupt national economies, seize private property, destroy liberty, and ultimately jail dissenters. That program has been enormously successful at least 10 times in my lifetime and I am only 39.

Forethought by socialists is certainly not one of there highest attributes. Socialists by their every evidence are extremely stupid people.

[Eye8apie]

But they had good intentions. Isn't that all that matters?

[adampeart]

It's my understanding Norway doesn't have minimum wage laws and the average McDonald's worker there makes the equivalent of $17/hr.

[freeewill]

they are not socialist in the scandinavian states, people should search this.. the people dont have to get business licenses and they pay hardly any tax at all, you can go to norway today and open your own business tomorrow

[Zeb]

If that's too subtle, you can always go with this one: http://i3.cpcache.com/product/.....&width=300

[buybuydandavis]

I think they wouldn't understand it as satire.

There are so many people out there who genuinely like Bernie because he's a socialist in that tradition . . .

I admit, I wasn't sure.

I predict that If that shirt were slipped into a progressive tshirt store, there would be earnest purchases.

[adampeart]

"Marx is my co-pilot" bumper stickers are not an uncommon sight here in Seattle. This t shirt is a compliment, not satire, to the lion share of his supporters.

[Entelechy]

Is your haberdasher breeding Bolsheviks ?

[Hugo S. Cunningham]

Speaking of trades, a commenter on overlawyered noted what looked like a progression in men's hair styles. A barbershop could reconfigure it as a sign:
Red banner, with open barber's shears in place of hammer and sickle, then six socialist profiles to right.
Below, delete the provocative text and replace it with, "The Little Red Barbershop"

[Toast88]

They'd probably like it, actually. With how much murderous dictators are revered by the left, I'm surprised these shirts weren't already made by Bernie supporters.

[Suicidy]

It would be even better if Hitler were depicted as another Sanders Comrade.

[Dilligaf]

Now see. That's just silly and ridiculous. Lenin and Stalin spoke Russian, Mao spoke Chinese while Hitler spoke German. Which is how any idiot can easily tell the biggest difference between the National Socialists and the truel kind. Not the same at all. Fucking Duh..

[Jordan]

By contending that "potential [Sanders] supporters could be confused" by the "Bernie is My Comrade" shirts, McCall says the firm is essentially saying that Sanders supporters are "idiots."

That's actually a sound argument.

[Playa Manhattan.]

And it's correct.

[WTF]

Yeah, a little accidental honesty on the part of the firm.

[sarcasmic]

Pretty much.

[Hyperion]

They're pretty bad at math also.

[Loki]

Math, economics, basic logic, critical thinking... it would probably be shorter to list the things they don't suck at.

[Radioactive]

that would be list with no items...the opposite of a list, a whiff

[Loki]

I would think they'd be pretty good at stealing. Or getting others to steal on their behalf.

[Hrimnir]

You know they could start teaching basic logic to kids in school and nip a lot of this in the bud.

All dogs are furry. All cats are furry. Therefore all dogs are cats... uhh wait.

[Dilligaf]

So all the hair-less dogs and cats are.....dogs?

[Radioactive]

you win!

[buybuydandavis]

essentially saying that Sanders supporters are "idiots."

Or just communists or communist sympathizers. Do you think they don't exist? Think they're not enthusiastic about Bernie?

[Entelechy]

Is not reading Communitarian Manifesto, comrade T-shirt wearer ?

From each according to their imbicilities , to each according to our screeds

[Hyperion]

All authoritarian political movements get all wee-weed up if you dare insult their dear leader. So I'm going to say this is expected behavior from the Bernie campaign.

[Playa Manhattan.]

"Dear Mr. McCall:
This firm serves as legal counsel to Bernie 2016, Inc., the official organization of the campaign for Bernie Sanders' 2016 US presidential campaign."

Inc? As in "incorporated"?

I thought Bernie was against that....

[WTF]

Kkkorporashuns!!!1!!!! are not PEEPUL!!11!!!!!!

[Hyperion]

But they voluntarily pay 90% in taxes, right?

[R C Dean]

They certainly have no right to engage in political speech. Well, once you agree that Citizens United was wrongly decided, anyway.

[Long Woodchippers]

Well, you know that George Clooney thinks that "Citizens United" was one of the worst laws ever passed.

[Loki]

"It's different when we do it."

[Notorious UGCC]

"Look, when we denounce corporate influence, *obviously* we're not referring to members of the progressive community who incorporate as an act of defense against the right-wing corporations. I'm sure they'd un-incorporate just as soon as those right-wing corporations got what was coming to them. So stop criticizing Bernie, 2016, the New York Times Company, Mother Jones, etc."

[Michael]

Protections for me but not for thee.

[Idle Hands]

Does anyone else think that the average Bernie supporter would probably have no idea that this is a parody? I think they may have a case.

[Hyperion]

If they do know it's parody, you'll know right away by their self righteous sulking.

[The Other Libertarian]

Isn't that the deliciousness of it?

[buybuydandavis]

Dog whistle satire is music to my ears!

[ThomasD]

Isn't the standard a 'reasonable person' standard? If so, then doesn't that exclude the average Bernie supporter?

[LoneWaco]

and to protect the good will built up in its name and brand

200 million dead served!

[Ken Shultz]

Being against free speech isn't likely to hurt Sanders with progressives during the primaries.

If anything, this is likely to rally his support.

Bernie is like Trump that way--the more you condemn him for being against the free speech of rednecks, socialist haters, et. al., the more likely they are to turn out for him in the primaries.

There isn't any part of progressives that thinks the people they hate should have the right to free speech.

[sarcasmic]

Free speech is freedom to agree with the left. If you disagree then you're not engaging in free speech.

[Notorious UGCC]

There is an apparently-rapidly-aging cohort of progressives who have such strong memories of "their kind of people" being censored that they oppose *all* censorship so as to avoid risks to themselves and their friends.

These progressives often internalized the values of free expression so much that they can mutter the Brandenburg test in their sleep.

The latest generations of progs, in contrast, have only vague knowledge of the suppression of the Wobblies, Margaret Sanger, the Commies, Lady Chatterley's Lover, etc. - all they've known is a world where people like them are able not only to speak freely but to attract an admiring, nodding audience.

So it's harder for them to identify with the victims of censorship.

[buybuydandavis]

The US used to have a much better class of socialists in the early 20th century.

[Wasteland Wanderer]

A better class of socialists? What, were they dead?

[Hyperion]

I was talking to a Bernie supporter a while back and he was incredulous at the thought that I care about how much tax billionaires have to pay. He could not conceive of such a sentiment. The look on his face was of one dumbstruck by something completely incomprehensible to a human.

[sarcasmic]

There is only one answer to any question regarding how much taxes billionaires pay: Not enough.

Because if they paid their fair share of taxes, they wouldn't be billionaires.

What we need in this country is a maximum income. Rich people would still draw their obscene salaries, but it would be taxed at 100% above some arbitrary number. Since the rich wouldn't change their behavior at all as a result of this, all that money could be used to help the poor. Because rich people are so stupid that they wouldn't try to circumvent the tax in any way. They would pay it, and their ill-gotten gains would go into the hands of the truly deserving.

Of course certain concessions could be make for right-thinking people, like Soros and others who subscribe to correct politics. But everyone else would be forced to pay out the nose to help the poor.

/my father

[Hyperion]

Our very own Tony has suggested such a scheme. He said no one needs to make a million dollars a year. I really cannot think of what could go wrong with this as it was suggested by someone so brilliant.

[Long Woodchippers]

Then people would stop trying to make a million a year, and people below them would stop trying (hey, we have a guaranteed minimum) and then nothing really gets produced.

Remember the old Soviet joke? "We pretend to work, and they pretend to pay us!"

[timbo]

if we could just get a portion of the greedy capitalists' money we could finally pay for free housing, food stamps, free baby food, subsidized transportation, free school lunch, free medial care, disability insurance, unemployment income, free phones, jobs programs, .....

If we could just implement these program, we would have equality and prosperity for all. The rich just need to pay up.

[Long Woodchippers]

It's just so unfair that some people have more than you do, and Bernie is going to fix that!

[Hyperbolical]

Because if they paid their fair share of taxes, they wouldn't be billionaires.

This is it. Rich people ignite the evil eye in leftists (and other jealous people) by their very existence.

[Playa Manhattan.]

Have you considered euthanizing your father?

[Radioactive]

before he becomes your father?

[Suthenboy]

Reading your comment Sarcasmic I get the notion you are saying that tongue-in-cheek.

http://articles.latimes.com/19.....ximum-wage

[Mickey Rat]

I guess "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" is an alien concept to them as well.

[sarcasmic]

No it's not. They totally and completely support that concept. Except that "others" doesn't mean everyone. It means people who agree with them. If you disagree then you're an intolerant bigot, and as such aren't worthy of any respect.

[Hyperion]

They have to be oppressed and someone has to be doing the oppressing. Otherwise, what would happen to their wonderful movement?

[Loki]

The look on his face was of one dumbstruck by something completely incomprehensible to a human.

He probably concluded that you're pure evil and wouldn't think twice about loading you and all of us other wreckers and kulaks onto cattle cars bound for the camps. All the while feeling smug in the knowledge that he's helping to make the world a better place by getting rid of undesirables. Fuck all these assholes in their smug self righteous asses with a rusty chainsaw.

[Glide]

I was going to say "then why the fuck does he care about how much tax billionaires have to pay?" but obviously I know the answer. It's weird to favor good treatment of "the bad guys", and anyone richer than him is the bad guys of his story.

[kbolino]

Yeah, I can pretty much guarantee that I spend less time thinking about billionaires' tax rates than your average Sanders supporter. The whole thing is just projection.

[Mr. Flanders]

Most Sanders supporters I know have very little money to tax. Some I know are actually paid under the table. Upon hearing this from one of my friends I said "crazy, isn't it? How everyone wants government services but never wants to pay for them." She looked at me like a deer caught in the headlights and changed the subject. I had just let her know that I pay approximately 30-35% of my money on taxes every year.

[Mr. Flanders]

*nobody wants to pay for them.

[Long Woodchippers]

The Bernie supporters are thinking of all the great things they could do, if only they had other people's money.

[The Other Libertarian]

Sooner or later, some Bernieconomics professore' is going to propose the negative interest rate version of Teh New Economi. In this scenario. whenever you go to a business to transact for a good or service, they will pay you to take the item/service. Your employer will not pay you, you will pay them. And your employer will pass the portion of their money not consumed in producing the good or service to the government. Once a year on April 15th you will file with the IRS and send them a check for everything you were disproportionately given, or any shortfall in consumption that you may have incurred.

[Monty Crisco]

Gotta have to buy one. Goddamit, you beautiful bastards at Liberty Maniacs...

[Hugh Akston]

So this is why Bernie wants to overturn Citizens United.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Purchased.

[Idle Hands]

samsie. Email me what days you are going to wear it so we can coordinate.

[Heroic Mulatto]

May 1st.

[GILMORE?]

Solidarity!

[Hamster of Doom]

I laughed.

[Loki]

Nice. Count me in.

[Swiss Servator]

*applauds and belches the Internationale*

[The Other Libertarian]

LOL!

[Old Man With Candy]

I bought it to wear to the numerous folk music shows we attend, where EVERYONE has a Prius with a Bernie bumper sticker. They even made it in a size large enough to accommodate my capacious form.

[DOOMco]

I did too, along with some other stuff on that site. Ibe always liked their stuff.

[LynchPin1477]

I love my "Hayek is my homeboy" shirt, but no one else gets it.

[DOOMco]

I have the fed shirt. And the thought police poster on my wall.

[buybuydandavis]

Dog whistle shirts are the best kind.

[Ken Shultz]

Progressivism is believing that the government should force people to sacrifice their individual rights for the common good.

If you can convince progressives that the world would be a better place if people weren't allowed to criticize or make fun of Bernie Sanders, then they will absolutely get behind that.

And they're not ashamed of it. In fact, they think you should be ashamed of yourself for supporting, racist, homophobic, climate change denying, anti-Bernie Sanders speech.

How could you?!

[Radioactive]

well it's really sort of simple... step one: remove brain from original wrapper, step 2: place in empty space between ears, step 3: insert brain into cavity...

[GILMORE?]

I feel like Engels has poor brand-recognition, and he should have been swapped for perhaps Castro or Pol Pot.

[Heroic Mulatto]

The Chinese refer to that line up as "The History of Shaving"

[B.P.]

I like this. However, in the picture, both Mao's and Bernie's faces are clean-shaven. That can only mean that Bernie is doing even more shaving.

Um, nevermind.

[Heroic Mulatto]

Bernie hasn't been added to Tienanmen Square....yet.

[The Other Libertarian]

He's going bald, though.

[Lee G]

Should have included Rousseau as the forefather of all these asshats

[GILMORE?]

My point was that including Engels was obviously expecting far too much from an illiterate viewer; You're just making things worse.

I think Che would slip in nicely, though it would ruin the 'shaving's evolution' subtext HM noted.

[Lee G]

Fine, be that way.

*puts on John Locke/Thomas Hobbes t-shirt*

[The Other Libertarian]

Locke & Hobbes is my favorite comic strip.

[Gojira]

I agree with you, GILMORE? . I guessed it was him, but I don't just know him from sight like I do the others. Like, he would have to introduce himself to me at a party, whereas the others wouldn't. And after he introduced himself, I'd punch him in the dick.

[Hugh Akston]

What if you were in the bathroom together at the party and he was already halfway through giving you a handy when he introduced himself?

[Gojira]

I'd just make sure to splooge all in his beard, so that he'd have to work hard to get it all cleaned out again.

Unless he was really one of those bohemian types that prided himself on how brittle and stiff his beard was with old spooge.

[Hugh Akston]

But you'd still punch him in the dick after you zipped up, right?

[Gojira]

Oh for sure. But I'd wait until later in the party, so it'd catch him off-guard.

[Hugh Akston]

That does seem like the classy way to go.

[Citizen X]

That is classy as shit, yo.

[Pan Zagloba]

Whoever proposed Che was right on the money.

[buybuydandavis]

I second the motion.

[brokencycle]

He only wants 90% of YOUR property. His property (intellectual or otherwise) is off-limit.

[Alice Bowie (is back)]

who and where was this claim made?

[Tornado16nb]

His tax plans. Aren't you a 1 percenter?

[DOOMco]

I can't understand my self employed friends supporting him. It hurts my brain.

[Certified Public Asshat]

I know a financial adviser who supports Bernie. Do not use this man for financial planning.

[GILMORE?]

So do i. Its not uncommon. The reason is probably that many financial advisors are also knee-deep in health-insurance brokerage as a sideline gig. The constant hassles created by the complexities of that market & its regulations, as well as their intimacy of the costs imposed on small businesses by changes in that market, probably leads many to assume that if the Govt simply raised a few tax rates and suddenly took over that entire business, it would lead to greater simplification and less risk.

The fact you spend like 20% of your time in finance dealing with regulatory compliance probably leads many people to believe that many of the regulations are probably 'necessary', but that the manner in which they are implemented are unfair to the little-guy. Both of which are true to some extent. So it wouldn't be a stretch to find some that think that "punishing the very rich" isn't that bad an idea so long as it leaves their "less rich" clients less-exposed.

Additionally, most advisors are in the business of "set-it-and-forget-it" investing, and avoid trading costs as much as possible. Many probably think high-volume trading is a scourge and that their sponsoring institutions take too big a bite of their own book. So what if Bernie increases *their* costs (not realizing that it would certainly trickle down into every aspect of their own business)

I could go on. I've met hard-leftists in *investment banks*. You can find them anywhere.

[Sal Paradise]

It's the price we pay for civilization, citizen!

[GILMORE?]

Nobody needs 23 brands of socialism

[Alice Bowie (is back)]

That's OK.

Keep Calling Bernie a Communist.

The truth is, we've never seen Democratic Socialism as work.
All we've seen is Communism with and Oligarchs.

In America, everything from the Police, to the Military, to Social Security, etc, have been democratic Socialists features.

Bernie is not looking to turn America means of Production to be owned "by the peope".

But at the rate that America is going
- CNN reporting the top 5 growing jobs in America all paying less than $25k/year
- 100 New Millionaires are replaced with 1000s if not 10,000s of displaced workers from secure jobs
- Jobs just simply disappearing

It's great to have the libertarian smug attitude that America is too good to build trinkets and other things that China builds now. But the fact is, there are many Americans that would love to contribute to this country, live like an American, and die like an American.

Go Comrade Bernie. As I've always said, if you don't want the general public to vote for Hugo Chavez (or something of the like), Capitalism needs to be have, the rich need to share. As proven time-and-time again in history, we don't a mob of have-nots angrily going after the haves. How did America make it work for almost 100 years until the assholes took over?

[Idle Hands]

If your dream state has never been implemented right maybe you should write better instructions.

[Hyperion]

Alice can't afford a software with grammar check, she's being oppressed by billionaires and libertarians.

[Suicidy]

She probably also escaped confinement in a mental health facility located in a state that has a civil commitment provision. She is now also off her meds. Probably pissing and shitting herself in a public library while ranting and raving online. In other words, a typical day for a progressive activist.

[Monty Crisco]

"How did America make it work for almost 100 years until the assholes took over?"

Ummmm, lightly regulated free markets? Resulting in the greatest accumulation of wealth for the highest number of people and the highest living standards in the history of human civilization?

Was that the answer you were looking for, Alice?

[Hyperion]

Here's some democratic socialism at work:

Wonders of socialism

[Tornado16nb]

Is this a serious post?

Democratic socialism has never been at work....so how do you know it is a good thing to do?

How does America have democratic socialist features when you just said we have never seen it at work?

Who are these people that took over? Are rich people a new thing?

[HeteroPatriarch]

If it doesn't work, it's not democratic socialism. Hence, they will keep trying no matter how much wealth is squandered or how many people are killed in the attempt. Because it can't possibly be that the ideology is flawed.

[GILMORE?]

Alice Bowie's partial-lobotomy-shtick never gets old.

[Playa Manhattan.]

^^^ Not even a moron in a hurry.

[Citizen X]

Alice Bowie is a moron takin' his time; if only he wasn't taking up everyone else's, too.

[Citizen X]

Weren't you a Kasich guy a couple months ago? You need to either take more drugs or less drugs.

[Old Man With Candy]

You need to either take more drugs or less fewer drugs.

Don't light the Nikki signal.

[Citizen X]

Thanks, Stannis Baratheon.

[R C Dean]

Hmm. Not sure.

"Fewer" would mean you need to reduce the kinds of drugs you are taking. If you're doing meth, pot, and oxy, "fewer" drugs would mean cutting out the meth.

"Less" would mean you aren't changing up your formulary, just cutting back on the volume.

[Old Man With Candy]

Good point. I read it the first way, but you're right, it's ambiguous.

[LynchPin1477]

In America, everything from the Police, to the Military, to Social Security, etc, have been democratic Socialists features

Please stop with the argument that the police and military are socialist. The philosophical underpinning of state-run police and defense is fundamentally different from the philosophical underpinning of socialism. And even if it wasn't, just because a socialist model might work for some things like defense does not mean that it would work for other things.

[Irish ?s Lauren Southern]

I just think it's funny that the only time leftists stop talking about how evil the cops and the military are is when they need to claim that the cops and the military prove socialism works.

[Hyperion]

You mean sort of like how they hate Christians and Jews, but every time they want to make a moral case for something they use Jesus as their example? What would Jesus do, huh, you mean old bastards, what would Jesus do?

[Wasteland Wanderer]

It's always fun to drop my atheist card on leftists who assume I'm a religious conservative and try to pull that one on me.

[Hyperion]

Yuh huh, we're gonna be just like Sweden and Norway. Everyone there is happy and everything is free. I never went there before but someone told me this.

[SimonD]

It worked alright when they were homogeneous countries without a parasite class. Now they've imported one (parasite class) so they're backing away from the socialism.

PS: Doesn't Norway have one of the highest suicide rates in the world? And, let's not even talk about Sweden and the number of rapes that occur there (rape rape, not drunken romp retroactive 'rape')

[GILMORE?]

Please stop with the argument that the police and military are socialist.

i believe that 95% of the time its when someone says something is 'begging the question', they're usually wrong. which includes me here.

the thing with their argument that "everything (in a mixed economy) is socialism! therefore *more* isn't really even a change from the status quo..."... is that it tries to pretend that the debate is between "Any involvement of the State" and "none", rather than between "minimalist" and "maximal" roles of the State

They're simply trying to dilute socialism to meaninglessness to pretend that he's not actually advocating the vast-expansion of state authority. By making Socialism seem banal, they avoid ever confronting the question of "how much is too much".

[Swiss Servator]

Break out the ol' F.B.

Socialism, like the ancient ideas from which it springs, confuses the distinction between government and society. As a result of this, every time we object to a thing being done by government, the socialists conclude that we object to its being done at all. We disapprove of state education. Then the socialists say that we are opposed to any education. We object to a state religion. Then the socialists say that we want no religion at all. We object to a state-enforced equality. Then they say that we are against equality. And so on, and so on. It is as if the socialists were to accuse us of not wanting persons to eat because we do not want the state to raise grain.

Bastiat, The Law

[LynchPin1477]

If Alice gets to claim that anything that the government runs is socialist, then I get to claim that Nazi death camps, Jim Crow laws, and the Spanish Inquisition were all socialist.

[LynchPin1477]

It's great to have the libertarian smug attitude that America is too good to build trinkets and other things that China builds now

That's not the libertarian attitude at all. Not even close. The libertarian attitude is that government has made it impossible for American trinket-makers to compete with robot and Chinese trinket-makers.

[Heroic Mulatto]

The truth is, we've never seen Democratic Socialism as work.

WHAT?

The stagnation of Latin America and Greece fills our vision like the sublime heights of Mount Everest. Or is it the gringo's fault that it doesn't work there?

[LynchPin1477]

Don't forget 50% youth unemployment in Spain or France trying to ban Uber.

[Hyperion]

Gringo has too much cargo.

[Zeb]

And the disastrous attempts at socialism that the UK tried in the 60s and 70s. British Leyland was great, right?

[Aloysious]

That sentence stood out to me as well.

barf.

[Zeb]

But we didn't see it at work with the right people in charge.

[brokencycle]

Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe to?

[Ken Shultz]

Statement One: "The truth is, we've never seen Democratic Socialism as work".

Statement Two: "In America, everything from the Police, to the Military, to Social Security, etc, have been democratic Socialists features".

Does anyone else see any contradictions in these two statements?

[Irish ?s Lauren Southern]

"We've never seen democratic socialism work, but even capitalist America has huge numbers of people working for socialist institutions."

Yeah, didn't really think that one through.

[Citizen X]

didn't really think that one through

Consider the source.

[Tornado16nb]

haha that is why i was wondering if it was indeed a serious post.

[LynchPin1477]

As serious as Alice can be.

[Hyperion]

Alice started drinking too early today.

[Sevo]

Hyperion|4.18.16 @ 1:42PM|#
"Alice started drinking too early today."

Naah, that's just stupidity talking. When Alice gets buzzed, it's 'way worse.

[Ken Shultz]

"But at the rate that America is going
- CNN reporting the top 5 growing jobs in America all paying less than $25k/year
- 100 New Millionaires are replaced with 1000s if not 10,000s of displaced workers from secure jobs
- Jobs just simply disappearing

Have you given any consideration to what makes economies grow?

If opportunities and economic growth have something to do with productivity gains, investment, low inflation, low taxation, technology improvements, and, yes, free trade, then in what will Bernie Sanders' socialism be conducive to these things?

[Hyperion]

I have never even been able to get one of these progressives to engage in meaningful debate about any issues. They state their case, based on simple ideals that sound good to them or just regurgitate the latest leftist talking point. But if you try to debate them, they get emotional and angry. Now if you agree with them about something, then they'll be polite. But they do not like being disagreed with and do not want to discuss it.

[buybuydandavis]

Have you given any consideration to what makes economies grow?

Pies are not baked. They simply exist. The only question is how to divide them.

[Sevo]

Alice Bowie (is back)|4.18.16 @ 1:22PM|#
"That's OK.
Keep Calling Bernie a Communist."

Thanks, we will.
But were you in a hurry and did you get it?

[Loki]

It must be hell inside your "brain."

[The Last American Hero]

The guy praised breadlines, believes that the Cuban people worship Fidel by choice, and supports suppression of freedom of the press. But go on, please tell us how he isn't a pinko.

[The Last American Hero]

The guy praised breadlines, believes that the Cuban people worship Fidel by choice, and supports suppression of freedom of the press. But go on, please tell us how he isn't a pinko.

[Loki]

Don't forget he also believes that "true democracy requires public ownership of the means of production." But yeah, he's totally not a Communist.

[Sevo]

"- 100 New Millionaires are replaced with 1000s if not 10,000s of displaced workers from secure jobs"

Now, see, Alice is not guilty of begging the question. No, Alice is guilty of pulling numbers out of his ass.

[Loki]

That's covered in "How to be a Leftoid Diaper Stain 101."

[See Double You]

"We don't want the state to own the means of production; we just want the state to control the means of production. Totally different!"

[brokencycle]

Do you have a newsletter I can subscribe too?

[generalisimo14]

Sounds like the love child of Boris and Tony. Where is Boris? I have miss him ?

[Glide]

Wait, which is it? That making 25k a year is bad? Or that making cheap trinkets in America is good?

Can't have both. If you bring the trinkets back, they're getting made by the 25k folks you're calling a sign of a bad economy.

[lap83]

Socialism has never been tried before, yet everything Bernie suggests has been done in some form. The pixie dust he sprinkles on afterwards is just a different recipe or something

[BigT]

"Bernie is not looking to turn America means of Production to be owned "by the peope".

Correct, Alice. When ownership remains with individuals or companies, it's fascism.

[kbolino]

I think it's important to remember that ownership is both possession and control. When private parties have possession but the state has control, that's fascism.

[Suicidy]

Germany had quite a run with national socialism.........

[Lee G]

I think this one sums up the Hillary campaign pretty well

[buybuydandavis]

Hillary's campaign is summed up in 2 words: Vote Vagina.

[Irish ?s Lauren Southern]

Fair Use apparently doesn't exist if it makes leftists feel sad. I'm also buying one of these this instant.

[Loki]

I want one of those. I'll have to order one quick before they take it down. I bet orders skyrocket because of this. Nice going, Berntard. It's like they've never heard of the Streisand Effect.

[The Other Libertarian]

+1 Streisand.

[DOOMco]

He stole Ron Paul's revolution logo as well

[Citizen X]

If only the good doctor had retained Ms. Hawkins to do some IP trolling on his behalf.

[DOOMco]

I don't want to bring a suit, I just point this out to my idiotic friends.

[Tornado16nb]

Just bought one. If he doesn't win the nomination and hillary not is indicted, i plan to send it to his senate office.

[Tornado16nb]

To have it signed.

[DOOMco]

Brilliant.

[Loki]

Awesome.

+1,000,000 Internets.

[timbo]

Don't worry Bern. Your supporters are never going to bother learning about your comrades in arms.

As long as you keep teaching them that they can eat rich people, then no one will ever question the efficacy of your policies.

You also have the US education system preaching your policies as mandated text so the deck is stacked.

[DOOMco]

I'm stealing this link . Bernie doesn't like the individual. Duh.

[Sevo]

"if a moron in a hurry can recognize it's a parody, it's a parody" and not copyright infringement."

Paging commie kid!

[Diane Reynolds (Paul.)]

When Citizens United gets overturned, Bernie will have a legitimate case.

[dantheserene]

He may have a case, but I'd still hesitate to call it "legitimate".

[R C Dean]

Look at all those dead white males. So patriarchy. So much other.

[See Double You]

It's the reason communism didn't work.

[See Double You]

So Bernie is a fan of trademark protection, eh?

[Uncle Jay]

Comrades!
We must not allow making fun of Comrade Bernie. Otherwise people will see him as the socialist fool he truly is.
Then the Grand People's Revolution will not occur.
Think of the horror of that!

[See Double You]

Property rights for me, not for thee.

#bernvictim

[R C Dean]

The pic of Stalin reminded me of something I saw on "The World at War" last week (available in your Amazon Prime subscription!):

Zhukov was originally posted to the Siberian front with Japan. He kicked the snot out of the Japanese army twice, forcing them to give up on overland expansion into north Asia. Then, when he came to Stalingrad, he brought 40(?) divisions of his Siberian troops, freed up by the Japanese non-aggression pact with Russia. The fresh troops, used to winter fighting turned the tide at Moscow.

[GILMORE?]

Best TV documentary ever IMO.

Lawrence Olivier narration kills it

[toolkien]

While the shirt is amusing, it doesn't really provide the right message.

Bernie is an out-and-out (versus the quiet variety within the establishment Dem and Repub) FABIAN socialist. You know, the "Good" kind of socialist. The kind that don't want revolution, per se, but to win via the parliamentary process - give away free shit to everybody until the treasury is empty and the credit cards are maxxed. The shirt should really drive home the point that ALL socialism is bad, and of the same stripe, by having Bernie in the middle of Stalin and Hitler (more appropriately Otto Strasser, but no one would recognize the picture) - the "sensible" mid-point between the two. But definitely drive home the point that it is all the same thing in the end - Romantics (artists, poets, librarians) who don't know shit from Shinola when it comes to economics who will inevitably turn out the thugs at some point.

[Notorious UGCC]

The Webbs and Bernard Shaw - quintessential Fabians - were also com-symps.

[Notorious UGCC]

"if a moron in a hurry can recognize it's a parody, it's a parody"

A quick glance was enough for me to tell it was a parady, so...hey, wait a minute!

[Lee G]

To my non-surprise, the slashdot commentariat completely supports the lawsuit.

I tried to argue this, but the site is so clearly full of douchbags and jerkoffs that I don't even care.

Guy does not think he is a communist (hint: "democratic socialist" is not the same thing) Neither is "socialist") Random website he knows fuck all about uses his name and image without endorsement or permission, and... TRADEMARK BULLYING.

Fuck, no.

The douchebag is strong here: and that's not with the Bernie campaign.

Either way its not a story.

[stefanyemilbourn]

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[The Other Libertarian]

Bought.

[The Other Libertarian]

Reason: I like the packaging of a subtle "fuck you" in an easily mistakable format.

[TimothyLane]

Well, does anyone deny Sanders supporters are idiots? For that matter, so are Slick Hilly supporters.

[wFt]

Being a natural born iconoclast [hey, that would make a great user name-don't steal it!] I want one of these; I REALLY want one of these, and walk around Ann Arbor in it.

[sasob]

Comrade Bernie? Fitting nickname for the pos.

[virginiajpewitt]

I've made $64,000 so far this year working online and I'm a full time student. Im using an online business opportunity I heard about and I've made such great money. It's really user friendly and I'm just so happy that I found out about it. Heres what I do,

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[tinamorris1145]

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[tinamorris1145]

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[tinamorris1145]

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[american socialist]

"This shirt includes a pantheon of socialist paladins just to confuse, fascinate, and cause the finger-wagging, nitpicking partisan to hilariously instruct upon the proper definition of socialism..."

No thank you. That's Almost as bad as hearing some right-wing ideologue read the love-making parts in Atlas Shrugged.

[janiceboliver]

I've made $64,000 so far this year working online and I'm a full time student. Im using an online business opportunity I heard about and I've made such great money. It's really user friendly and I'm just so happy that I found out about it. Heres what I do,

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[Nick W]

Wonder if the campaign will go after these STD PSA billboards...

http://www.latimes.com/local/l.....story.html

[VartAndelay]

T-Shirt-makers will lose by the standard that a moron galloping by on a horse from 40 feet or whatever will recognize it's parody.
Because a moron (aka most people) will think it's serious and will rush to the polls for Bernie.

[nafrogostu]

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[baileymary355]

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[Eye8apie]

The fact that it was a copyright infringement that got them upset and not who he was being compared to tells you all you need to know about Sanders.

[carolflores0001]

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[ahmed kamel]

The fact that it was a copyright infringement that got them upset and not who he was being compared to tells you all you need to know about Sanders.

????? ???
???????

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[Marshall456]

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[Willie99]

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[The Other Libertarian]

Da Dum, Tssssh!