Cuba

"Cuba: the untaught lesson on the perils of socialism"

If millennials really do dig socialism, there's a museum of it just 90 miles south of Miami.

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Orange County Register columnist Ron Hart was among the travelers on Reason's recent trip to Cuba. His latest column is based on his experiences in Castro's open-air prison.

Cuba is a political and economics lesson not taught well enough to our schoolchildren. With the rise in popularity of Bernie Sanders, who is beating Hillary Clinton in the New Hampshire Democratic primary, it's clear that Americans do not understand the dire lessons of socialism's poisonous ideology and the devastation it brings to every country that has fallen prey to its hollow temptations. In a Pew Research Center survey, 43 percent of 18-29-year-olds had a positive reaction to the word "socialism."

U.S. teachers, who generally lean left, romanticize Marxist revolutionaries like Che Guevara and Castro. Kids today wear iconic Che T-shirts, unaware of the 3,000 political murders and economic devastation he caused….

…years of Cuban socialist rule have turned a prosperous country into an impoverished one. Cubans earn $20 a month, but everything is free! It is just that there is none of it. Store shelves are empty; even toilet paper is scarce. All the "evil" businesses were run out of Cuba, and 70 percent of the people work for the government, so there is no one left to tax.

Read the whole piece here.

Sen. Jeff Flake (R-Arizona) was also on the trip. Since first coming to Congress in 2001, Flake has pushed for the travel ban, partly because he thinks it would be instructive for Americans to see how true socialism really plays out. On the trip, he recounted the time that Polish leader Lech Walesa told him that "you have a museum of socialism just off the coast of Florida, yet you don't let your people visit it." Flake has also long called for lifting the embargo, arguing that it violates U.S. citizens' rights to travel and trade freely while serving no clear foreign policy purpose and helping to immiserate the people of Cuba as well. Flake is no friend to the Castro regime and points out regularly that the American embargo allows the Cuban government to falsely blame its terrible economic situation on the United States.

Look for an interview with Flake, conducted while we were in Havana, soon.

In 2009, Reason TV interviewed Gorki Aguila, the lead singer for the Cuban rock bank Porno Para Ricardo (Porn for Richard) about creative and commercial life under the Castro regime. Aguila and his bandmates have been arrested over regularly over the years, most recently just last fall.

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  1. Very OT, death by GPS:

    http://www.sacbee.com/entertai…..73180.html

    Wow.

    1. We can’t keep every stupid person alive.

      1. This doesn’t seem like stupidity, so much as it does ignorance. The examples given in the article suggest that, since they were using GPS, they believed themselves to be acting “in good faith”. They didn’t know their tech (which is usually updateable) wasn’t correct, because, “Who sells GPS units with incorrect data??”.

        That they figured their “good faith” would protect them is sad, and it costs them dearly. But, it looks like they tried to do something to mitigate risk–it just wasn’t sufficient.

        1. To mitigate risk in death valley bring water, gasoline, first aid and food. Also, vehicle repair supplies.

          I have spent a little time wandering around it and it aint called Death Valley for nothing.

          1. Sage advice. It’s (more than) too bad that the people in the article didn’t know/do.

          2. To mitigate risk in anywhere bring water, gasoline, first aid and food. Also, vehicle repair supplies.

            It’s good advice to be prepare wherever you are.

            1. yes. this story made me sad, but if you are in your twenties and don’t understand the need to be prepared, especially before you go into a place named “Death Valley”, then I guess it is Darwinism at work. Sad.

        2. “This doesn’t seem like stupidity, so much as it does ignorance.”

          Not carrying water into Death Valley goes past ignorance all the way to stupidity.

        3. Not only that, but most of the problems mentioned would be as bad or greater w paper maps.

      2. We can’t keep every stupid person alive.

        The stupid person survived, it was the 6-year-old kid who had no control over the situation who died.

    2. Very timely, too.

    3. I finally got to read the article:

      “I’m pulling my hair,” he said. “I was never able to reach a single human with Google Earth Maps. But in their system, they have a way you can let them know something is wrong. And over the course of a year, I was able to get their maps updated.”

      Why doesn’t Google once and for all humanize? Have a 1-800 number; something, anything.

      1. Because every dumbass in the world would be calling. I actually have a number and name for a google contact. It has been probably 8 years since I last used it, and I don’t know if it is still good. I was doing SEO work, mostly for sites I built using Google Sites, but it was still kind of hard to get the number. The lady seemed to remember who I was every time I called, though.
        Now, I fix buildings, Google doesn’t seem to care about me anymore.

    4. I went multiple times in 2013 trying to experience the 130ish record temps.

      I had a 2012 Passat, USB receiver going into my laptop (Microsoft S&T 2013), and an Inmarsat phone. I was only planning on staying on paved roads, but took about 3 gallons of liquids – OJ and Tomato Juice from the fridge, a couple bottles of water snagged at the store, and some energy and granola bars. I didn’t want to chance that I could end up stuck out there for some reason or have some problem that force me to stay overnight.

      I learned a long time ago not to trust dash mount GPS devices and have it reinforced on an occasional basis when in a car with someone using one.

    5. “A lot of people don’t realize you should just turn around and go back the way you came,” she said. “We see that a lot here.”

      We call that “evolution”.

  2. Stupid people have always loves socialism in other places they can visit and not move to.

    1. “?h, isn’t it great how there aren’t advertisements everywhere?”

      1. The umlaut is how you know Zeb is metal as fuck.

        1. Damn right.

          That and I’ve been writing in Spanish a lot lately.

      2. There aren’t any posters of propaganda?

        Point those out: those are the ads.

  3. Good article Nick.

  4. Lech Walesa told him that “you have a museum of socialism just off the coast of Florida, yet you don’t let your people visit it.”

    There’s one just north of Windsor, Ontario that anyone can visit.

    1. Now you’re just making places up.

    2. To anyone who doesn’t know: Windsor is actually south of Detroit.

  5. “Flake has pushed for the travel ban, partly because he thinks it would be instructive for Americans to see how true socialism really plays out.”

    I think you meant…

    “Flake has pushed to overturn the travel ban, partly because he thinks it would be instructive for Americans to see how true socialism really plays out.”

  6. If millennials really do dig socialism, there’s a museum of it just 90 miles south of Miami.

    10 REM SOCIALISM PROGRAM
    20 INITIATE
    30 PROMOTE SOCIALISM
    40 IMPOSE SOCIALISM
    50 BLAME ‘CAPITALISM’ AND ‘NOT ACHIEVED TRUE SOCIALISM YET’ WHEN SOCIALISM FAILS
    60 GOTO 30

    Milenials will never accept that Cuba is the same socialism they believe true socialism is.

    1. What’s Venezuela ? Chopped liver,well,if they had any chopped liver,or milk,flour, toilet paper,cooking oil……….

      1. Venezuela is different, everything was fine when Comrade Chavez was alive, but he died (probably to some CIA cancer conspiracy) and then it all went to hell. Whereas Comrade Castro lives on!

        1. It’s always fine till you run out of other peoples money.

      2. Venezuela’s woes are the direct result of Yankee imperialism and CIA involvement in the economy. Haven’t you read Facebook lately, chamo?

        1. You forgot the Jews,their in there somehow.

        2. That’s Yanqui imperialism. It is Venezuela after all.

          1. Yeah,you would say that.I heard about you.

      3. Anyone seen the NY Times series on Venezuela? A devastating argument against Sanders idiocy.

        http://www.nytimes.com/2016/02…..t_msn&_r=2

        1. I just read the article. You’ll notice that it never uses the word socialism, and never even puts the blame on the Venezuelan government. This is as close as it comes:

          “”If we were run properly, this country could be richer than Saudi Arabia,” Mr. Palencia said.

          He could barely contain his anger, at a loss for whom to blame. Was it Mr. Ch?vez, dead since 2013? Was it the curse of oil dependence?

          Or was it the watchman who had only now shown up?

          “I should report you,” said the rancher, pointing a finger.”

          That’s pathetic journalism.

          1. I shouted out
            “Who killed the Kennedys?”
            Well after all
            It was you and me

    2. Man, you are old. The last time I saw numbered command lines was with BASIC. But I like how you left unused numbers in between in case you had to add a line.

  7. Untaught?

    1. Socialism is evil,socialist are evil. Evil is as evil does.

    2. “Untaught?”

      No. Unlearned.

  8. Untaught? The lesson has been taught over and over for the last century. It’s just irrelevant.

  9. “Cuba: the untaught lesson on the perils of socialism”

    It’s not really untaught. The lesson has been taught, over and over again. Some dumbasses just refuse to learn it.

    1. I should review the comments before posting…

      1. Next you’ll be reading the articles.

        1. Only True Socialists read the articles …

          1. nice! BTW, using a new laptop, I reached for shift+1 for the exclamation mark, and discovered that ctrl+1 switches browser tabs.

    2. During the Cold War however, it was possible to point at the oppressive practices and economic dogpile that was the Soviet Union and say “You really want to go in that direction, pal?”

      1. That’s only really true in the late 70s and 80s.The Gulag Archipelago changed Western European views so completely that it’s unthinkable how people thought of the Soviet Umion up to that point.

        1. Before the 50’s, American lamestream intellectuals had been telling the American public for decades that communism was a superior economic system and that Soviet Russia would surpass us. It was during the 50’s that the true horrors of communism were revealed to the West, hence the violent reaction in the US against it.

    3. Well, the examples are there and obvious. But I don’t know that that means they have been taught, which implies some intention toward teaching.

      Of course I’m just being pedantic. It is shocking how many people haven’t learned the lesson of what a disaster socialism has been in every case.

  10. Nick, I’ve been there. Cuba has its ups and downs, but I think it probably compares favorably to places like Mexico and El Salvador. I got absolutely stranded on the streets of Havana at 4 am before my flight out and had zero problems. I wouldn’t want to do the same in Mexico City, I’ll tell you.

    Lots of people there seemed pissed off that they were there and their cousins were living the good life in Miami. I tried to tell them that we have our own problems with crime, obesity, and the desperately poor And that capitalists, as they will, probably were selling them a bill of goods. If I were them, I’d probably be ambivalent about prospects of hoards of Americans coming south. Better to keep the dive bars of hemingway’s days the way they are rather than turning it over to Hard Rock Havana.

    1. When did you go on this trip?

      1. Nice anecdote by the way not sure what it means

      2. 2008. Want me to tell you a story about comparative Internet freedom in Laos and Thailand?

        1. How did you get there?

            1. You’re such a bore, playa. The minute someone comes here and makes an argument that libertarianism isn’t solely about the tax rates of billionaires you’re ready to shut off debate and just call people trolls. Pathetic.

              1. What? How did you get to cuba with a travel ban?

              2. Well, you’re a known troll. It’s not even worth responding to the content of your messages, it’s sufficient to just make fun of you or to tell you to go away.

          1. Probably on a plane or boat from some country besides the US. Lots of people did it.

        2. Want me to tell you a story about comparative Internet freedom in Laos and Thailand?

          Ooh…ohh….pick me!

        3. american socialist|2.11.16 @ 6:19PM|#
          “2008. Want me to tell you a story about comparative Internet freedom in Laos and Thailand?”

          Yes, of course! Both are widely known as bastions of the Free Market!
          Did you have a point?

    2. Wow. You are one sick fuck.

      1. Yeah, lecturing a bunch of Cubans about the “evils of capitalism.” That’s pretty fucking depraved.

        Let’s see, they probably don’t have a lot of crime.,, Because nobody has anything worth stealing.

        They probably don’t have an obesity problem.,, Because they don’t get enough to eat to be obese.

        And our “desperately poor” here have a far higher standard of living than they do there. They should be so lucky as to be “desperately poor” in America.

        I’m guessing most of them were probably listening to fuckhead thinking “Is this piece of shit for real? Are there really Americans this stupid, or is this guy Cuban Intelligence trying to bait me into saying something negative about Comrade Castro? WTF?”

        1. When I (and I say this emphatically) was in Cuba I befriended a dude who had an engineering degree he earned in Russia. Every time he spoke he was looking around. When I asked him he intimated about spies. Meanwhile, he was earning a fucking US dollar handing out towels to idiots like me – and AS.

          Nice way of life, eh, AS? This is what you defend, right?

          1. Simple thought experiment:

            How many Cubans put to sea, risking their very lives, on rafts put together with bailing wire and bubble gum, to come to the USA? Very-much-compromised beacon of freedom it may be… They STILL come!

            How many USA citizens do likewise, to go the OTHER way? THAT, my friends, is ****THE**** telling question of the day…. Am Soc? Can YE answer this question, PLEASE??!?!? Are YE fleeing the USA, to go to the “Socialist Paradise” of Cuba? If not, WHY not?

            1. “How many USA citizens do likewise, to go the OTHER way?”

              Oh, shitbag went there. For a visit.

    3. This schtick is getting so tired.

      1. Comparing Miami to cuba…lol. That explains why so many escaped on ricketty rafts to get away from cuba!

        1. Ever walked the streets of north Miami, frank? It’s better not to.

          1. Thats nice. Have you? What does that have to do with comparing miami to cuba?

            That is a false equivalency i believe

            1. I’m saying it’s probably better for most Cubans to be in Havana and not in Miami. Quality of life is better.

              1. HAHAHAHA! No. Cuba had the highest per-capita GDP of all of Latin America before Castro, now it has the lowest. When you are overtaken by the economic powerhouse of Paraguay, it means something has gone terribly wrong.

              2. Quality of life is better.

                Comedy fucking gold. American tourist gets the Cuban foreign ministry tour, thinks that somehow translates into actual Cuban life.

                Also, did you spend US dollars in Cuba?

              3. That’s why millions of people have fled Miami for Havana over the last 50 years? Oh wait, no, it’s the other way around! Every Cuban I’ve ever met would slap you silly for saying something that stupid.

                1. Cal D.,

                  You mean like the crazy ones in Miami? The ones that were running drugs and in the mafia? Yeah, I know they’re pissed off.

                  1. You truly are the most despicable piece of shit I’ve ever encountered, online or in meat space.

                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8NToc3Yky4

                  2. Cal D.,
                    “You mean like the crazy ones in Miami?”

                    Gee, shitbag sees criminals, therefore socialism is good!
                    “Fucking imbecile” is a compliment, here.

                  3. The ones that were running drugs and in the mafia?

                    Why don’t you tell us what happens to people who deal drugs in Cuba? Let’s hear about some of the peace and kindness that the Cuban government visits on them.

                  4. Kbolino,

                    Where did you go? I went by myself– running the blockade and all– and biked around vinales. I’ll admit part of the charm was that the place wasn’t overrun by people trying to sell you stuff, but what I saw there wasn’t too much far removed from what I saw in Puerto Rico and certainly no worse than what I saw in Mexico.

                    1. Since you ran the “blockade”, why don’t you identify some of the ships that were blockading Cuba. After all, you had to know what and where they were to run it, didn’t you? Also, why don’t you tell us the model of boat you used to run this “blockade”?

                      And I’m glad that things looked so spiffy for you. I guess the forced labor camps would be depressing to visit, wouldn’t they?

                    2. Your are lair ,and evil. You kind has killed millions and kept millions more in poverty.

                    3. “I’ll admit part of the charm was that the place wasn’t overrun by people trying to sell you stuff,”

                      Aw, how cute. Misery is there to placate AS’s romanticism.

                      There are plenty of places like that sans le communisme in the world.

                      I really don’t like you if this is your moral compass.

                    4. american socialist|2.11.16 @ 6:48PM|#
                      “…but what I saw there wasn’t too much far removed from what I saw in Puerto Rico and certainly no worse than what I saw in Mexico.”

                      Yeah, I’m sure you checked out the political prisons and, oh, took a look at the web sites available to the average Cuban, right?
                      And the stores? You took pesos in there to buy food, right?
                      Fucking imbecile…

                    5. Ahh well, if it was equivalent to Mexico well its almost like downtown LA. you dumbass

                  5. american socialist|2.11.16 @ 6:41PM|#|?|filternamelinkcustom

                    Cal D.,

                    You mean like the crazy ones in Miami? The ones that were running drugs and in the mafia? Yeah, I know they’re pissed off.

                    “When Mexico Cuba sends its people, they’re not sending their best. They’re not sending you. They’re not sending you. They’re sending people that have lots of problems, and they’re bringing those problems with us. They’re bringing drugs. They’re bringing crime. They’re rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.”

                    – American Socialist

                  6. Wow, slandering an entire community of over 2 million Americans based on their ancestral nationality – I thought you socialists were supposed to be against racism and stereotyping people?

              4. I just copy pasted this to my Cuban-American friend – whose family lost everything to Castro and relocated to Miami.

                Needless to say he isn’t impressed.

                1. Ask him how life was under Batista for me, would you?

                  1. ‘Tell that guys he’s an idiot.’

                    He’s a doctor by the way.

                  2. Getting more and more desperate. Down to the “Batista was bad too!” excuse.

                    1. Calidissident|2.11.16 @ 7:54PM|#
                      “Getting more and more desperate. Down to the “Batista was bad too!” excuse.”

                      And ol’ Fulgencio was the absolute model of a free-market Prez, too!

                  3. “Ask him how life was under Batista for me, would you?”

                    Batista was deposed in 1959. I thought Lefties still trying to blame things on Bush from 8 years ago were desperate, but that takes the cake.

              5. Maybe they shouldnt live in some sections of north miami. There are other areas.

                Problem solved

              6. Great, so why don’t you move to your socialist nirvana and let us wallow in our capitalist misery!

    4. Yeah,tell people who an’t buy food about people here being fat.You are a dumb ass.Socialism is pure evil,it has and never will work.

    5. What kind of sickening apologist bullshit was that? I’ve been there too and see NOTHING (besides the people and natural beauty) good about Cuba.

      How in the world you can come here and make such a claim is staggering and beyond humanity. All I saw were empty shelves, people forbidden to walk on beaches blessed by retarded Westerners, poverty, ans all around misery.

      It’s nice to say these things when you know you’re leaving but if you have a modicum of decency and understanding, you don’t conclude what you just did.

      1. I thought they have nice cars.

    6. This story was much funnier when P.J. O’Rourke was writing it and idiots like you were the punchline. “Soviet Peace Tours”, I believe they were called.

      1. “These were people who believed everything about the Soviet Union was perfect, but they were bringing their own toilet paper.”

    7. Cool story, bro.

    8. I’m surprised you didn’t Nick straight about how “real socialism” has never really been tried and the only reason it’s failed is because the right top men weren’t in charge. Fuck off and die you commie prick.

      1. *…set Nick straight…*

    9. we have our own problems with … obesity/blockquote

      That’s always a winning argument with people barely living at a subsistence level.

      1. It’s like an observation made by a dumb privileged teenage girl “omg the peasants are soo skinny. I’m totes jelly!”

    10. “Cuba has its ups and downs, but I think it probably compares favorably to places like Mexico and El Salvador.”

      That’s because you’re a fucking imbecile.

      1. Out in the sticks is pretty much the same everywhere.

    11. “Better to keep the dive bars of Hemingway’s days the way they are”

      Can locals afford to drink there?

      Cuz my buddy is a Communist and his wife is Cuban and they had tales to tell about locals not being able to afford to eat in any tourist restaurants.

    12. “Better to keep the dive bars of hemingway’s days the way they are rather than turning it over to Hard Rock Havana.”

      Truly, there is nothing so progressive as the inclination to let brown people fester in shittiness for the sake of ‘authenticity’.

  11. http://blogs.afp.com/correspon…..es-to-cuba

    My romantic 20-year-old self would maybe be a little disappointed to know that the answer I came away with was: not very nice.

    First, there was the issue of equality.

    My 20-year-old self imagined Cuba as an egalitarian utopia. But the first thing you notice as a foreigner is that there are two separate economies, with separate money.

    Foreigners and the Cuban elite use the Cuban Convertible Peso, or CUC.

    Roughly equivalent to the dollar, it is the currency of restaurants, hotels and high-end stores.

    But ordinary Cubans have no systematic access to it. They live in a far more restricted economy, that of the ordinary peso.

    They can learn!

    1. They emulated that from the Soviet beryoska where a nice Mitlisia gentleman would demand to see your foreign currency before you were allowed to enter …

  12. Hahahaha… Loonies on the right are going bonkers about Bernie..,

    “Isn’t it odd that Russia has now come to America? Not even the Russia of today but the Russia of yesterday has come to America. Isn’t it odd that it would be a street radical from New York, Bernie Sanders, one of the most dangerous men in political history ? oh, I know, ‘He’s a simple old man and he’s not dangerous,’ you are wrong. Watch his snaky eyes when he speaks. He’s extremely smart. Bernie is very smart. Bernie is also a streetfighter. Bernie will fight for what he believes in. In that sense, he is a true revolutionary. And if you want to see friends dragged away by the secret police ? my friends, you say it can’t happen here, I’m telling you it is happening here.”

    – Michael savage

    1. That is what socialism leads to pal…each and every time.

      Maduro, Castro, Mao, Hitler, Stalin, Che….quite the track record

        1. You heard him.

          1. It’s actually not true. Once again, these are all DIctators.
            Look at the so-called socialist countries with free elections and free markets and property rights.

            1. Those countries are not socialist in the Marxist sense, while Cuba is.

            2. Look at the so-called socialist countries with free elections and free markets and property rights.

              Yes, like… uhhhhh…. ummmmm…. errrrrr….. wait, it’s a circle AND a square?

              1. I think dumbass is referring to the Scandinavian “socialist” paradises. Which, newsfllash, aren’t socialist in the communist/ marxist sense of the term (and never were), and aren’t the utopias that leftist morons think they are.

                1. They’ve also gotten significantly less socialist in the last 25 years.

              2. And the operative word is that these countries have not reached their full potential as socialist shitholes yer, because there is still other people’s money to take. Once that well dries up, well then we always get the same outcome.

            3. If you fucking people don’t actually mean “socialism” when you say “socialism”, why don’t you use a different word?

              American socialist is talking about and promoting real, no-shit, take over the means of production socialism, not generous Euro-style welfare states (which aren’t looking so hot right now either).

              1. American socialist is talking about and promoting real, no-shit, take over the means of production socialism, not generous Euro-style welfare states

                Which is why he’s the biggest piece of shit we have trolling here. Tony, JackAss… they’re just dumbasses. AmSoc is an evil fuckbag.

              2. And this is why the lesson is never learned.

                Hence, ‘untaught.’

                Alice, notice, is tripping over her/him/itself trying to apply some kind of intellectual logic to socialism and dictatorships. When in fact, it’s plain to see (with all the evidence before us) if it quacks like a duck…

                The only way they will learn is through lived experiences. The rest of us will say no thanks to nut jobs like Bernie Sanders because we understand; we’re students of history and know shysters when we see them. Others will, unfortunately, will sink the rest of us so they can learn.

                1. Yeah and right-wingers who bitch about big government will go on electing Republicans, who will get us involved in oil wars. Are they capable of learning short of having their head blown off in the GWB Liberty Brigade? only time will tell.

                  1. And they get called for it here.

                    Tu quoque is not a tuque.

                    1. I need a toque after that..

                  2. Democrats don’t get us involved in wars? Man, somebody should tell the President and the Democrats in Congress…

                    1. And the Democrat presidents who got us into all of the major wars of the 20th century.

                  3. american socialist|2.11.16 @ 7:14PM|#
                    “Yeah and right-wingers who bitch about big government will go on electing Republicans, who will get us involved in oil wars”

                    Yeah, why not go to a right wing site and gripe about that? The guys at Stormfront are waiting to hear from you.

                  4. “american socialist|2.11.16 @ 7:14PM|#

                    Yeah and right-wingers who bitch about big government will go on electing Republicans, who will get us involved in oil wars. ”

                    And then left-wingers who bitch about ‘oil wars’ will go on electing Democrats, who will just continue those oil wars while starting a few new ones of their own.

            4. Look at the so-called socialist countries with free elections and free markets and property rights.

              Only confused American progressives and Christian conservatives erroneously refer to Europe’s “social democracies” as “socialist countries”. I know, both have “social” in their name, but other than that, they are pretty much completely different forms of government.

    2. They are going bonkers that half the Democratic Party supports a warmed over communist for President.

  13. Not that I’m a communist, but the implementation of socialism by Cuba, Russia, and others has always been dove-tailed with a totalitarianism.

    The shitty treatment people get in Cuba, Russia, China, etc. was due to dictators and not necessarily socialism.

    The European’s seem to make socialism-lite work well without the dictator in democracies. In the US, we have several socialist policies.

    I don’t know why libertarians and conservatives are so against a capitalist/democratic/socialist mix? It’s what we have here today. What I don’t like about Cuba/Russia/China/North Korea is the Dictators.

    1. I don’t know why libertarians and conservatives are so against a capitalist/democratic/socialist mix? It’s what we have here today.

      It’s because it’s what we have here today.

      What I don’t like about Cuba/Russia/China/North Korea is the Dictators.

      Socialism is a prerequisite for a dictator.

      1. Socialism is a prerequisite for a dictator.

        This is not true and that is my point.

        We point out the failures in dictatorships and ignore the many successes in Northern Europe’s Democracies that have a free market, industry is not state-owned, the means of production is private, yet they have some socialist programs.

        1. We point out the failures in dictatorships and ignore the many successes in Northern Europe’s Democracies that have a free market, industry is not state-owned, the means of production is private, yet they have some socialist programs.

          You just described what’s keeping the dictator at bay.

          1. Yes. and BTW, these European countries are slightly more socialist than america.

            1. And slightly less freedom-ey, having no express right to freedom of speech, right to bear arms etc. You know where I’m going with this, right?

            2. And the people in those countries are vastly poorer than Americans.

            3. Yeah, next time you talk to a good socialist from Scandinavia, just ask them what they think of gypsies.

              You’ll find how quickly their compassionate socialism turns into national socialism.

              There’s a word for it: antiziganism.

        2. In capitalism people make their own choices. From those choices come prices and wages. When people want something, the price goes up, so more people make it, etc. when people make something useful they get paid more, etc.

          Socialism seeks to subvert this. Prices are based on what is fair, wages the same. But what is fair? The prices and wages were based on free choices, therefore to change them free choice must be removed. You cannot be paid x amount because some authority decides people are wrong to desire to pay you x amount. Same is true of prices.

          Socialism requires an authority that overrides the choices of people. That authority must necessarily have the power over all people. The system cannot function with free people.

          Socialism is authoritarianism, that is why all socialist countries are authoritarian.

    2. If we have it today…then why do we need to go to socialism

      1. The only people who can drive in the left lane at the excact same speed as someone in the right lane are Prius drivers. No one else can do that… one’s going to overtake the other.

        1. This…seems like a non sequitur.

          1. I got really obscure with that reference joke, and I kind of saw it might be too technical and/or niche to make the impact. Next time I’ll use better judgement. As Dennis Miller used to say, “I think I referenced myself into a corner”

        2. Nope – I’ve found that Mexicans are *quite* adept at doing the exact same thing.

    3. Socialism in Europe is still capitalist, they just have a large safety net. However, taxes on the middle class are twice as high as here. Most importantly, they are homogeneous societies that are 95% white and 90% Christian who all share the same history, and they have low growth and had strict immigration policies until very recently. Historically, they outsourced all their slavery and genocide directly to Africa and then left when they got what was needed, without having to deal with any of the negative after effects. I don’t think white people are genetically superior to other people in any way, but the reason for those “socialist” countries’ successes is due to all of the things American liberals hate. Minority immigrants from poor countries that do move to Northern Europe usually fair poorer than they do in America, and do not assimilate as they do here.

      1. I don’t know the answer to this question:

        Is the middle-class feel better in Europe or in America?

        The Middle-class here is seeing promised entitlements threatened. They see good paying jobs with benefits turn into nigger jobs with little pay, part time, and virtually no benefits.

        At least in Europe you can retire at 60 and get a living wage.

        I guess I would be considered upper-middle class in America. I make about $250 with a family of four and I would prefer to pay higher taxes for certain guarantees.

        1. You mean you would prefer that everyone else pay higher taxes for you to have certain guarantees.

          1. You guys love wording it like that.

            It’s actually “I prefer that everyone including myself pay higher taxes so that everyone including myself and everyone else has certain guarantees.”

            That’s the wording.

            1. including myself

              Post your 1040 and/or a receipt for a large “Gift to the United States Treasury” or else STFU

            2. So, innumerate as well as completely ignorant of Hayek.

            3. “It’s actually “I prefer that everyone including myself pay higher taxes so that everyone including myself and everyone else has certain guarantees.””

              And when you’re supposed to decide for other people what taxes they pay and what guarantees they should like, that’ll be cute.

          2. Wait i thought they said money wasnt real?

            1. Your money isn’t real until it’s in their pocket.

        2. “Is the middle-class feel better in Europe or in America?

          http://www.timbro.se/bokhandel/pdf/9175665646.pdf

          I know this is a joke, but by-and-large the “middle-class feel better” in America.

        3. Wait i can’t believe i missed this. You make 250K (top 5%) and want everyone else to pay more taxes for certain guarantees?

          250K….should you reallly be complaining?

          1. Frankjasper1|2.11.16 @ 7:05PM|#
            “…You make 250K (top 5%) and want everyone else to pay more taxes for certain guarantees?…”

            I find the first part VERY hard to believe. There are certainly disconnects between income and intelligence, but Alice has been posting here for quite a while, and ‘intelligent’ simply isn’t an adjective that springs to mind.
            Unless it’s Dad’s company or something, which might also explain the ‘guilt’.

          2. He typed $250.

        4. I have family who own businesses in France and Italy and do business with the continent.

          You’re INSANE if you think they’re better off than us North Americans. INSANE.

        5. “At least in Europe you can retire at 60 and get a living wage.”

          But first, your country goes broke and then you have to emigrate to get a job because double-digit unemployment.

        6. Bowie – you have no fucking idea what you’re talking about.

          1. Whatever squeeze the MC is feeling here, the European Middle Class felt two decades ago – and its worse for them now.

          2. The only fuckers who get to retire at 60 ‘and get a living wage’ are government workers and union bosses. Maybe we should be rejoicing that the government sector is eating up everything and in a couple generations *everyone* there will be a government worker?

          3. Why would you even be thinking of ‘retiring’ at 60 in 2015? Especially in a country that has ‘universal health care’ and such better health outcomes and other nonsense compared to America? What’s so special about the 60 mark in a society that is pushing 80+ year expected lifespans on the low end? What the fuck would you have done during that 40 year working life that would justify complete strangers supporting you in the lifestyle to which you had become accustomed to for another couple of decades? I mean, you’re saying that for every year you work someone should have to support you for another year or more of doing jack squat?

          1. 4. Those guarantees? You can get insurance for that. You can already ‘pay . . . for certain guarantees’. And you have the freedom to choose exactly which ones. *And* a higher likelyhood that if shit hits the fan nationwide that your insurance company is going to pay you – your government can cut you off at a moments notice with no recourse other than picking up a rifle and trying to loot a Federal Repository.

        7. Just for your information, Europe is quite large and has countries like Switzerland which are pretty much free market capitalism to Denmark, which while having a high tax rate and redistribution is also lightly regulated (less than America.) Sweden made major pro-market reforms and has school choice and privatized retirement accounts.

          So saying “Europe’s middle class is happier” is simply ludicrous.

          Also, if you want to retire at age 57, try being a US civil servant, or a state of California civil servant. Its quite easy.

          You might notice that Greece retires earlier too, but Germans increased their retirement age.

          So what is thus “retire at 60” line? From which country?

      2. Don’t forget,they have saved large amounts of money by living under the protection of the U.S. military.

      3. the reason for those “socialist” countries’ successes is due to all of the things American liberals hate.

        Well, that, and the “successes” of the Nordic Model are merely puppet theater.

      4. The hilarious irony is that the Baltic states are arguably MUCH more free-market and capitalist than America. Ireland too. Guess which countries are doing great economically?

    4. “I don’t know why libertarians and conservatives are so against a capitalist/democratic/socialist mix? It’s what we have here today. What I don’t like about Cuba/Russia/China/North Korea is the Dictators.”

      It’s because they don’t think there’s a difference, alice. Denmark and the Soviet Union are the same thing. It’s sad and pathetic, but ultimately its what you get when bored billionaires spend their money to promote this bullshit.

      1. I don’t think anyone is a billionaire.. Sorry if you are butt hurt that i dont want to pay 60% tax rates so you can mooch your entire life.

        Get a job

        1. Why does the RATE matter?

          Money is made up. The rate is made up.

          It’s all about quality of life. The numbers are irrelevant.

          1. . I make about $250 with a family of four and I would prefer to pay higher taxes for certain guarantees.

            -Alice Bowie, 6:29 pm

            Why does the RATE matter?

            Money is made up. The rate is made up.

            It’s all about quality of life. The numbers are irrelevant.

            -Alice Bowie, 6:31 pm

            Completely incoherent.

          2. If money is made up, then why do you want to take it from other people so badly?

          3. If money is made up why do you and your friend complain about income inequality?

          4. So your quality is dependent on forcing others to do stuff for you?

          5. Notice to Alice: I DON’T OWE YOU SHIT!!!

            My resources and wealth are not yours. They don’t belong to you, you didn’t earn them, and you are not entitled to them.

            If you “feel” that, somehow, you have a say-so over them (or, those belonging to any other person), why don’t you try to take them? See what that gets you.

      2. Bullshit. It is the disingenuous twits on the left who respond to criticisms of the Soviet Union, Cuba, North Korea, etc by invoking Denmark and Sweden.

        1. Indeed. We’re talking about the obvious failure of hard socialism and they bring up something else that is also called “socialism” but really is something else.

          The other thing about socialism in Western Europe is that they tried actual socialism for a while, and it didn’t work very well and they have gradually backed off on it since. The UK in the 70s was not a terribly productive or prosperous place.

      3. “It’s because they don’t think there’s a difference, alice. Denmark and the Soviet Union are the same thing.”

        That’s pretty rich, coming from a guy defending Cuba in this very thread.

        1. I was about to say, AmSoc showing awareness that the USSR was not the advertised workers’ paradise would be a pretty big step for him.

      4. Denmark and the Soviet Union are the same thing.

        Um, no.

        Been to both, no they are not.

        Fuck you, you Marxist bastard.

      5. Denmark still fucking sucks.

        1. But the Soviet Union swallowedhard.

      6. Socialism mixed with capitalism is like arsenic mixed with kool-aid. I guess if the amount is low enough it won’t kill you. But the benefits are about the same.

    5. “was due to dictators and not necessarily socialism.”

      Dude.

      Seriously?

      1. Look, just because centralizing all economic decision making into a single entity has historically lead to authoritarian government doesn’t mean socialism can’t work.

        We just haven’t found the Right People yet to make it work!

        1. YOU DON’T NEED to CENTRALIZE ALL ECONOMIC DECISIONS to have Capitalism with a socialist flare.

          1. You’re right, you just need to centralize banking.

            Who knew socialists were such fans of banking cartels?

          2. “YOU DON’T NEED to CENTRALIZE ALL ECONOMIC DECISIONS to have Capitalism with a socialist flare.”

            The ‘flare’ part is the part that stops working soon after it’s implemented, and ignoramuses like Alice think it has to do with the capitalist part.

              1. Holy shit , progs eating each other on Kos. Hadn’t followed a link there in a while…they are eating each other as we watch….it’s hilarious.

            1. Aww, did they kick you out of the socialist club for not being pure enough? I bet they did. And you keep apologizing for Cuba and the Soviet Union, too! Those ignorant rubes just don’t understand how hard it is to shill for murderous ideologies without state-run media.

          3. What the fuck is ‘socialist flare’?

            Oh. Gulags you mean?

            1. Maybe it’s what you see with the gunfire?

              1. Yeh, he misspelled ‘flair’.

                AS IN RIC FLAIR. WOOOO!

                1. I think the confusion here is because the word “socialism” (like so many other words in the political sphere) has so often been misused. Socialism is about economic central planning. A large welfare state can exist with or without economic central planning, which is what people like Alice are usually advocating. The reason that northern europe isn’t anything like Soviet Russia is because what they’ve tried to do were not remotely the same things.

                  The fact that someone achieved results that are better than Soviet Russia should not be considered all that impressive. They are still poorer than they would otherwise be without the large welfare states that they’ve created.

                  1. Sweden and Denmark would be better served as Social Democracies not Democratic Socialism.

          4. “Capitalism with a socialist flare.”

            Oh, so Euro-poverty. You can emigrate there if you want. Be sure to wave to all the people going the other way.

          5. All decisions that are “socialized” are decisions that you are not allowed to make, they are left to an authority. I want zero fucking socialism, because I trust not one of you to decide how to live my life, and spend my money.

            If that is so wonderful to you why don’t you just let someone else make your decisions for you. Why must we join in this experiment to prove its a failure for the 50th time?

    6. Alice Bowie (is back)|2.11.16 @ 6:17PM|#
      “Not that I’m a communist, but the implementation of socialism by Cuba, Russia, and others has always been dove-tailed with a totalitarianism.”

      And ignoramuses like you always hope it’ll be otherwise, ’cause stupid.

    7. Why don’t you read the Financial Reports of the United States Government for the last ten years before you utter another word.

      Or perhaps TRILLIONS of debt and tens of TRILLIONS more in unfunded entitlements sounds like a great system to you.

      It’s breathtaking how ignorant some people PURPOSEFULLY seem to be.

    8. The shitty treatment people get in Cuba, Russia, China, etc. was due to dictators and not necessarily socialism.

      You can’t do socialism without eventually doing dictators. One necessarily follows from the other unless you reverse course (as the European welfare states have found they had to, and that’s with us paying their defense bill). In the absence of market pricing (including consequences) someone has to decide how goods and services get produced and distributed. And people have to be made to go along with those decisions. You don’t have any other option.

      It’s the information problem. Hayek pointed it out 80 years ago.

      1. “You can’t do socialism without eventually doing dictators”

        In “Post War”, Tony Judt (who is no one’s idea of a capitalist tool) summed it up as:
        ‘Centralized planning leads to centralized murder’

    9. “Not that I’m a communist, but the implementation of socialism by Cuba, Russia, and others has always been dove-tailed with a totalitarianism.”

      ftfy

    10. The European’s seem to make socialism-lite work well without the dictator in democracies.

      The Europeans have “social democracies” and “welfare states”, not “socialism”.

      And coming from Europe, I am afraid I have to tell you that Europe doesn’t really “make it work”. Europe ran a pyramid scheme on the back of the baby boom, having larger and larger working populations support small needy populations through high taxes, and faking economic growth through various kinds of accounting tricks. It’s all falling apart.

  14. The only Americans who move to Cuba are fugitives and terrorists. There are currently tens of thousands of Cubans risking their lives trying to get to America. Those two things should be the all that is needed to convince people Cuba is a terrible place. Too bad more people listen to Michael Moore instead.

  15. “Cuba: the untaught lesson on the perils of socialism”
    If millennials really do dig socialism, there’s a museum of it just 90 miles south of Miami.

    This argument never seems to go anywhere because Cuba’s problems are usually placed entirely on the shoulders of the U.S. embargo. (ignore evidence that plenty of other nations didn’t observe an embargo)

    Back in the 90s I listened to a couple of socialists on “alternative radio” go on and on about how Cuba failed because it was “encircled by capitalism”.

    1. That too. Had Cuba been allowed to trade with the World (including the USA), it would not be as poor.

      1. Cuba does trade with the world. It’s not like it’s North Korea, plenty of Europeans go there for vacations, not to mention the rest of Latin America.

        1. Not until recently.

          The US Embargo wouldn’t let ships in.

          In addition, the US Embargo would punish any country that traded with Cuba.

          1. $250k and you’re this stupid. which govt bureaucracy do you work for?

            1. The Banking Government Bureaucracy.

              You like to call people with different opinions STUPID.

              1. you’re the one who thinks an embargo is a blockade and that there has been one until recently.

              2. Alice Bowie (is back)|2.11.16 @ 6:37PM|#
                “You like to call people with different opinions STUPID.”

                No, I like to call stupid people stupid, stupid.

              3. Typing WORDS in all CAPS doesn’t HELP your ARGUMENT that you aren’t STUPID. STUPID. You’re stupid because you’ve posted dozens of stupid things on this thread. People like you are why I don’t want people like you taking my money and deciding what to do with it.

          2. The US has not blockaded Cuba nor imposed sanctions on any country for trading with Cuba. The embargo only applies to US citizens and US businesses.

            But thanks for inadvertently admitting that the US has unique economic contributions to the world, which all of the socialist paradises somehow can’t deliver…

            1. Yeah, why can’t we make the case that the U.S. is dirt poor and suffering because they didn’t have access to Cuba. Somehow that argument only goes one way even though both countries have the same access to the rest of the world, just not each other.

              It’s almost like it’s not the ability to trade with each other that caused the different economic outcomes.

          3. That’s a lie.It is not a blockade.

          4. …the US Embargo would punish any country that traded with Cuba.

            I call BULLSHIT! Canada (my home and native land) has traded with Cuba for decades, as have many, many countries in South America and Western/Central Europe. I don’t recall so much as a single news item over the decades here in Canada complaining that the Yanks were “punishing” us for trading with Cuba. One of the reasons Cubans love Canadians as they do is because we largely ignored the embargo as being fundamentally pointless.

            1. FFS, when I was growing up people used to hop across the border to Mexico to snag (and smuggle back) Cuban cigars.

            2. Have American auto companies in Canada been allowed to trade with Cuba? One of the distinctive features of the Cuban economy is the number of 1950s-era American cars that have been maintained and rebuilt and remain in use (or at the least, did until recently). Because Cuba formerly used U.S. technology for most things, the loss of access to that technology has a large effect. How much of Cuba’s economic woes are due to the embargo, and how much to socialism in general, is impossible to know. If the U.S. wants to prove that it is the latter that is the primary factor, just lift the embargo.

              1. “Have American auto companies in Canada been allowed to trade with Cuba?”

                Do you think any(working)one in Cuba can afford a new car?

        2. GMSM,

          Canadians are the biggest travelers. Must we always be an after thought?

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourism_in_Cuba

          1. Canadians, Europeans same difference.

            1. Yeah, we always get confused with Spaniards.

          2. Say again,I wasn’t paying attention.

      2. Cuba trades with the EU AND Canada.

        For the love of God.

        1. I want to add, it was the strangest and saddest thing to see Montreal city buses in the streets of Havana sold to Cuba by the Pere Trudeau government in the 70s and 80s I believe it was.

          http://www.mtlblog.com/2015/08…..-in-cuba/#

      3. The only country Cuba can’t trade with is the US. Lots of countries do quite well without much US trade, so that’s a lame excuse.

    2. It would be great if the capitalist united states didnt have an embargo with them….

      Oh the irony

  16. BTW,Puerto Rico is a good example too.

  17. And all the BernieBros say, “but it will work here, and this time, because Cuba doesn’t have a 1% to tax! Also, KKKorporayshuns! If we just takes the 1% we could give everyone on Facebook a million jillion dollars!”

    Also, does it stand to reason that if there are BernieBros, there must be BernieHos? (asking for a friend)

    1. Cuba has a 1%,they live in Miami.

      1. Actually, most of them live in and around the Diplomatic Quarter in Havana. Some nice places there, and great restaurants, if you happen to have the right currency and suckhole the right people…

  18. Socialist cuba would totally be great if it wasnt for the embargo from the horrible capitalist United States lulz. The sweet sweet irony is delicious

    1. I’ve always loved that argument. “Well, socialism isn’t working well because our deadly enemies, the capitalists, won’t practice free trade with us!” And of course Cuba is not blockaded, and can trade with the rest of the world. But somehow our embargo causes all their problems.

      1. It’s like Iraq back in the day. USA is starving us! Yet, they were still trading with a very wealthy EU.

        Only leftists buy these lies because they’re idiots.

  19. I would think a lot of leftists view Cuba as a bastion of equality (largely an illusion) rather than as a land of no opportunity. They’re all equal in their misery and deprivation rather than unequal and prosperous. To them, that’s a desirable thing. Pointing to Cuba and saying “but they’re dirt poor” won’t sway their opinion in the slightest.

    1. Yea i always found it odd they complain about income inequality but yet endorse the standard of living seen by the united states poor.

      If everyone is at or above the SOL they want, you would think they would see that as a good thing. Nope!

      1. They don’t care about the absolute standard of living, they care about the relative standard. As long as we’re all equals, it’s all good. They simply have vastly different priorities than we do.

        1. “As long as we’re all equals, it’s all good.”

          And they find it perfectly acceptable to have a small class of super-rich, super-powerful politicians. In their eyes, it’s fine and dandy for Obama to make $400,000 per year (that puts him in that evil ONE PERCENT) along with getting a luxury lifestyle for free, because he’s the savior of the poor and he genuinely deserves it. I’m sure they’d even let a few private citizens remain extremely wealthy (Warren Buffet, etc.) as long as they donated to The Party and paid lip service now and then.

          So they’re not really about equality at all… They just want different people to be the one percent.

        2. As long as we’re all equals, it’s all good.

          Except intellectuals, politicians, writers, artists, and journalists should receive special treatment and be treated like the aristocracy that they imagine themselves to be.

        3. My analogy is healthcare.

          They want a world where Bill Gates waits patiently in line behind Rosa Parks for cancer treatment.

          They don’t care about the treatment, or why there’s a line, just that Bill Gates has to wait.

  20. OT comment, I just noticed that the DOW is back to 2013 levels. So could you make the argument that by bringing the dow back to levels when the economy was good, Obama made America great again?

    1. Oh, sorry Paul. Didn’t mean to step on your OT shoes.

        1. Sweet! I think I have a twenty year old pair of Mossimo shoes floatimg around in a closet.

      1. that GIF is the most awesome thing I’ve seen this month.

        1. “Who is your same sex celebrity crush?”

          “Mine is Nathan Fillion”

    2. He’s just trying to fix the mess Bush left behind.

    3. Doesnt this help income or wealth inequality? The progs should be proud!

      1. All jokes aside, after the 2008 crash when our CO2 emissions dropped precipitously, the left actually wailed that “this isn’t the way to drop our emissions” then went into tortured paroxysms declaring that it had to occur through government actions and subsidies.

        Anecdote 2: When Seattle had a drop in student enrollment and class sizes dropped, the left went into tortured paroxysms declaring that this isn’t how it’s supposed to happen, and smaller class sizes had to come from new teacher hiring.

        1. It is almost as if they are miserable people who need to complain about something

      2. Apparently not:

        Cuba’s Gini index of income inequality rose from .24 in 1986 to .38 in 2000, according to Havana professor Myra Espina in a paper published in Cuba.

        .38 is close to the US and the UK, and much higher than the capitalist European nations.

  21. OT: Ron Bailey’s Three Parent Babies article.

    Since when did Reason start doing the ‘pay to play’ bullshit? Did I miss something? You’d think Suderman’s click bait trolling of the Commentariat would plug up any financial stop gaps.

    1. They could just to a pic library of Robby’s hair and probably cover all their shortfalls.

  22. When progs think of socialism they think of Denmark and the Scandinavian countries. It’s next to impossible to get through to them about why it’s utterly absurd to compare those countries with the United States.

    1. “Socialism works well in tiny countries filled with white people, where everything is very expensive! Uh, wait….”

      1. They also aren’t taking kindly to Muslim migrants crashing their party.

      2. It never ‘worked’. Sweden imploded in 1990 or so and they’ve been moving from socialism ever since.

        Race can’t make socialism work.

      3. Except that Denmark and Sweden don’t even have “socialism”, they have “social democracies, which means capitalist economies with lots of welfare spending. And “lots of welfare spending” actually means a lot less than in the US in absolute ($PPP) terms.

    2. You can. Just because it’s a bunch of white people and small doesn’t mean that it can’t scale.

      We can have a free-market economy with property rights and some safety nets. What’s keeping this from happening is the elite and industrial class which would only pay for these safety-nets and not benefit from them.
      Them and their stooges…(i.e. poor white americans which can be dooped into voting against their own best interest and our libertarian friends)

      1. The USSR was large, multi-ethnic, and killed the “elite and industrial class”.

        Why didn’t it work?

        1. Dictatorship?
          Lack of Free Markets and property rights?
          Extreme Corruption?
          THe Elite status was transferred from the industrialist and the rich to communist party members.
          Isolationism?
          The USA?

          1. Alice Bowie (is back)|2.11.16 @ 6:46PM|#
            “Lack of Free Markets and property rights?”

            Alice and broken clocks.

          2. Dictatorship? They killed the dictator and his entire family.

            Lack of Free Markets and property rights? Why didn’t they establish “free markets and property rights” if those things are so important?

            Extreme Corruption? Everywhere has corruption.

            THe Elite status was transferred from the industrialist and the rich to communist party members. Again, why would they do that if it was so bad?

            Isolationism? The USSR, a multinational empire with a global sphere of influence, was isolationist?

            The USA? Was on the other side of the globe.

            1. Extreme Corruption? Everywhere has corruption.

              Yeah, not so much. They may have a tiny bit in Scandinavia, but the whole thing (IMO) “works” there simply because people have this sort of civic duty mindset and are very much not corrupt.

              1. They may have a tiny bit in Scandinavia, but the whole thing (IMO) “works” there simply because people have this sort of civic duty mindset and are very much not corrupt.

                I don’t know what your definition of “corruption” is, but mine would include things like using the government-run social work program as a pool of sex slaves. There is plenty of corruption in Scandinavia, just like there’s plenty of corruption in the United States and other first-world countries. It’s not the blatant bribe-your-way kind like in India or Brazil, or the single-party rule kind like in China or Vietnam, but as long as people have power over other people, there will be abuse.

                But that’s all kind of immaterial since it isn’t “corruption” that led to the failure of the USSR.

      2. Um we don’t have safety nets? What?

        1. I once posted a long list of social welfare programs (only the federal ones, natch, the state ones are too numerous to list) to Slashdot to dispel the myth that the US has no safety net. To which somebody responded “that’s not a safety net, it’s just basic civilization!” or some such gibberish.

          1. Oh my. We are so screwed. So their idea of safety nets is just giving them free stuff?

            1. Wait, you didn’t know that was is what all this support for failed collectivist ideological systems is all about? The prattle and nonsense spoken is just that: these types are always about getting free shit and never having to worry about consequences to stupid choices….

          2. I believe if you just renamed every program and re-passed it, they would cheer and think progress is being made.

      3. What’s keeping this from happening is the elite and industrial class which would only pay for these safety-nets and not benefit from them.

        That you want this means you’re a fucking thief.

        “Screw those evil people who won’t let us take their shit without expecting something in return!!! ARGGBLGLSRLE!!!!”

      4. America already has tons of ‘safety nets’.

        “What’s keeping this from happening is the elite and industrial class which would only pay for these safety-nets and not benefit from them.”

        Actually it’s something called ‘math’.

      5. “Them and their stooges…(i.e. poor white americans which can be dooped into voting against their own best interest and our libertarian friends)”

        Ohhhh… now I get it. I’ve been voting against my own best interest by voting against a large, oppressive, and corrupt government instead of voting for a larger, more oppressive, and more corrupt government! It all makes sense now!

      6. Fuck off, Tulpa.

      7. We can have a free-market economy with property rights and some safety nets. What’s keeping this from happening is the elite and industrial class which would only pay for these safety-nets and not benefit from them.

        That’s bullshit. The US safety net is more generous than the European safety net, and it is also more redistributive (that is, it send more money to people who actually need it).

        poor white americans which can be dooped into voting against their own best interest and our libertarian friends

        I come from Europe. You don’t know what you’re talking about. It’s far better to be “poor” in the US than in Europe.

    3. No, no. Northern European Capitalistic/Welfare State, largely homogenous societies with 1/10 of the U.S. population will work EXACTLY THE SAME here as it does there. And don’t forget to hand wave away the fact that these countries are slowly scaling back the more socialized forms of governance as the long term reality of such a sytem begins to force them to face reality. Full steam ahead!

      1. That was a horribly structured rant. I blame Itialian wine. Damn you Europeans!

      2. “And don’t forget to hand wave away the fact that these countries are slowly scaling back the more socialized forms of governance as the long term reality of such a sytem begins to force them to face reality. Full steam ahead!”

        Fortune’s Feb issue had an article on how far the ‘scaling-back’ has progressed; a WHOLE lot.

      3. They are certainly scaling back the benefits, but the high taxes remain the same. In general, people are not even getting a quarter of what they used to from their supposed safety nets, but they are still paying the same price for the drastically reduced bennies. Some are catching on that the deal is rigged.

        Every form of collectivism ends up just like monarchies and empires do: an elite aristocracy has all the wealth and power, and the rest are serfs. The problem is that a lot of modern day collectivist serfs are too stupid to realize they are just that, because they are currently being bought off with crumbs.

      1. No, it’s all FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

      2. The schools are great and the healthcare is in par with America.

        1. “the healthcare is in par with America.”
          Tell us about the delays,. Alice

          ” The waiting time experienced for surgery has been reduced from about 12 weeks in 2001 to 7.6 weeks in 2011.”
          http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/s…..79080-9-en

          And you’re forgive me if I find those stats top stink to high heaven; every time England lowers the ‘wait times’, you’ll find they fiddled with the data qualifications to make it seem there was a change.
          Hint, Alice, you can’t give things away; there’s never enough of it.

          1. Next you’re going to tell me that the chocolate ration hasn’t really risen!

            1. Interesting side-note: Finland has a pretty big reserve army.

        2. What has the government ever created that was better than the market? Cars, postal service, DMV, VA health?

          Everything it makes is more expensive and low quality yet people think somehow this will magically change for healthcare, or education, or housing. What evidence is there?

          By its nature government is inefficient. If the people in healthcare were great, they would go elsewhere and get paid more. They have no benefit to keep prices down, or quality up. That’s why all government services and products are junk. Not just here, but everywhere in the world.

          No magic happens.

        3. “Alice Bowie (is back)|2.11.16 @ 6:59PM|#

          The schools are great and the healthcare is in par with America.”

          And yet we in America don’t have to fork over 75% of our income to get the same results.

        4. You’re delusional.

        5. The schools cost much less per pupil than our’s too.

          Which suggests we could cut spending to European levels and gain in educational results.

          Do you see any lefties asking for that?

          Amazing – they want to claim copying europe will save on healthcare, but they demure on education.

      3. Free is by definition, the best in the world. A free blowjob, for instance, is better than one you pay for. Or so I’m told.

        1. Everyone knows TNTTAAFBJ

      4. One man, a British transplant living in Denmark, sought to set the record straight about his adoptive homeland.

        HM, this is coming from a British man. His unhappiness is in his DNA. “The British take their pleasures sadly”

        1. HM, this is coming from a British man. His unhappiness is in his DNA. “The British take their pleasures sadly”

          That’s very, very true. You have to control for “whinge”.

      5. Jesus, HM, you left out some of the best stuff:

        But I’ve spoken to some of these people who are behind these ranking lists and they secretly admit it’s not about happiness, but they just use the word “happy” to grab the headlines. It’s really about … satisfaction and contentedness, and the Danes are massively content.

      6. And the comments are a bit bitter-derptastic. Don’t fuck with the homogeneous white people on NPR. It’s a bloodsport.

        1. They know the Danes better than the Danes do.

    4. I don’t think AmSoc, Bernie, and that crowd would be too thrilled if we adopted (or further adopted) many of their policies. Such as lower corporate taxes, very open trade policy, a territorial tax system, less progressive taxation, a regulatory system that in many ways is no more burdensome, or even less burdensome, than the US one (according to Heritage, Fraser, and the World Bank), etc.

      1. Sweden has privatized the shit out of their economy since the 1990s, to the point that Swedish left-wing groups bitch about the rise in inequality.

        Sweden even has private roaddzzzzz!

      2. The funny thing is that Denmark is basically doing what any US state should be able to do. The biggest obstacle to a state becoming like Denmark is the US federal government.

        Yet these people want everything done at the federal level.

      3. Many of their labour laws are more flexible than America’s. Also, Finland is going to be reforming soon in our direction.

        1. School choice in Sweden. Notice how we’re never told to copy that.

  23. If you want to live under socialist policies, fine. Those who vote for it are bound legally to follow its rules. Those who don’t, aren’t. But you can’t have that, right comrade? You know you’ve got a shitty system when you’ve got to point a gun at people when they are conducting voluntary transactions.

    1. I knew the gun was coming out.

      Yes, people are forced to pay taxes.

      Let’s take the Court system for example. Would it be best that we didn’t ROB every citizen to pay for the court house and just make the Plaintiff pay for the Judge/Jury/Executioner/etc?

      1. It might not be a bad idea, but it’s irrelevant to the point unless you think the slippery slope is just a water park attraction.

        1. I’m sure big business and the wealthy would love a court system like this.

          1. Why? It’s easier to buy a politician than a judge.

      2. Fuck off, Tulpa..

    2. This is the fundamental question. You want universal health care? Great. Pay for it. Those who want to opt out, let them. Same with, for example, public radio (CBC or NPR) or TV, you want it? PAY for it yourself. Those (like me) who don’t want to, should be allowed to opt out.

      Alas, you can’t have that because…why GREATER GOOD! And children.

      1. Rufus, think of an American single payer system like an Insurance company with 300,000,000+ members.
        Think of a single Insurance Company that doesn’t try to weasel out of claims as their primary business model.

        Again, I’m sure you would love to opt-out of not paying for War or giving Israel $6billion a year and giving Israel’s enemies $4billion per year. But our tax system is not like that. The best we can do is vote for people that won’t fund the things we don’t like. We don’t have ‘selective-opt-out’.

        1. Alice Bowie (is back)|2.11.16 @ 6:49PM|#
          “Rufus, think of an American single payer system like an Insurance company with 300,000,000+ members.”

          Alice, no insurance company pulls a gun to make you join.
          Think of it as a huge VA with even less accountabliity.
          Think of Alice as a fucking idiot.
          Fuck off, slaver.

          1. Let me tell you Sevo.

            Many many years ago I considered the idea of Government-run healthcare.

            The VA showed me that it’s not a good idea.

            The government shouldn’t run healthcare. Healthcare providers should remain private.
            The government would have to regulate pay-offs and no provider is going to be honest with the government. The providers aren’t even honest with the insurance companies.

            Lowering the cost of Healthcare = Paying the Healthcare Providers Less.

            1. Lowering the cost of Healthcare = Paying the Healthcare Providers Less.

              Well, then lowering the cost of education = paying the teachers less, right?

            2. “Lowering the cost of Healthcare = Paying the Healthcare Providers Less.”

              Folks, this is getting hard to believe.
              OK, Alice, WIH would I spend X years and Y amount of money to study medicine and then let the government tell me how much it’ll pay me?

              1. Which is why it always leads to forced labor. These people just can’t add 2 + 2. All the bad ship in socialist countries to them is because of bad people instead of the logical sequence of events.

                Make a right to wages, and what do you do with those who won’t work?

                You must force them to work or the economy collapses.

                Promise healthcare cheap and who pays doctors?

                You must force people to be doctors for little pay

                On and on with positive rights.

        2. It is supposed to be under a separate tax. Why can’t i opt out? If i want to be weasled out of claims, let me.

          1. You’ll just run to our welfare system once you can’t pay.

            1. Just say no?

            2. Nope but thanks. So ill run there that is why i need forced onto it? How about if i want to join ill pay voluntarily?

        3. THAT’S my point. Maybe we should.

          You can add whatever you want to a list on your taxes; including war.

          Put your money where your mouth is – literally. See how fast the assholes in government listen.

        4. “think of an American single payer system like an Insurance company with 300,000,000+ members.
          Think of a single Insurance Company that doesn’t try to weasel out of claims as their primary business model.”

          You might be the most air-headed poster here. It’s actually kind of nice.

        5. Alice, think of an American SIngle Payers system like an insurance company with absolutely no competition whatsoever, no requirement to have the money to cover pay-outs, absolute authority to dictate what they will and will not pay out for, and a small army of vicious people who. will. kill. you. if you miss a premium.

          1. Or dare to not show them the difference they expect a serf like you that depends on them, for whatever reason, should be giving them. But it doesn’t end with that: wait until they delay or withhold care from certain people because these people have the wrong ideas or are seen as a political or other sort of threat to them and their system…

        6. easily disproven…the top10 private insurance providers made 12 billion in 2013….medicare, according to the CBO lost 40 billion to fraud…I’ll go with an entity that is accountable…that ain’t medicare.

      2. Hello, Rufus. I also think marijuana should be illegal for those who think it should be illegal.

      3. Rufus, with all due respect to Ms. Alice, you’re arguing with a fucking retarded person who knows nothing about history, economics, and human nature.

        1. Rufus, if you are an intelligent and educated person, you should know that you are arguing with a person with a different opinion…and many of the people on this site don’t like it.

          1. Different opinions are welcome and encouraged. Unbridled stupidity is not. You’re welcome to post here but you’d best expect some well deserved abuse.

            1. If it were a debate it would be great. Insults are useless.
              The good thing is I do get a great debate from people here…some people.

              1. Sophistry doesn’t deserve anything more than insult.

              2. Alice, I’m still waiting for your 1040. You can black out the SSN, of course. You want to pay more in taxes? That’s great, show some good faith. I’ll also take large-dollar donations to the US government. Here’s the address:

                Gifts to the United States
                U.S. Department of the Treasury
                Credit Accounting Branch
                3700 East-West Highway, Room 622D
                Hyattsville, MD 20782

                Don’t forget to post a picture of the canceled check!

                1. Somehow, it being voluntary ruins it for them.

          2. “you should know that you are arguing with a person with a different opinion”

            Everyone is welcome to their opinion; facts ain’t quite so malleable and YOU can’t tell the difference.

  24. Boy, this place has just been a Shrike free zone since gold went up nearly $200.

    1. While the stocks got pounded and the USD went flat.

  25. The Hardest Part of Dating With Herpes is Knowing When to Tell

    “New love is supposed to be about anticipation, romance, and discovery. But after an amazing first date, instead of daydreaming about the future, I lie in bed wondering which moment I’m going to have to punctuate with the news that I have an incurable sexually transmitted infection. The conversation has to happen, but timing is everything.

    “I’ve thought about just slipping it in casually, somewhere between the appetizer and the salad: “These croutons are so good, and the wine’s got great legs. Speaking of legs, I have something interesting between mine …””

    1. Obviously its not until you’ve manipulated the other person to the point where they’re emotionally invested enough to not walk away.

      PUA culture can help you alot – I hear negging is a good way to get chicks to ‘settle’.

  26. Here’s a case of a cop using a taser instead of a gun

    http://www.9news.com/news/depu…..y/38579145

    Only the cop got shut by the suspect when the taser wasn’t effective.

    1. I can’t read the damn story for whatever reason.

      What was he suspected of?

      1. Having a gun. In Colorado.

        That, apparently, was enough to justify the cops stopping him and lead to the rest.

  27. From Newtonabbey, Northern Ireland, UK:

    “It’s like a science fiction nightmare, say Christian bakers in gay marriage cake case

    “Bakers taken to court for refusing to make Sesame Street cake supporting gay marriage insist they would do it again as landmark appeal set to define limits of freedom of conscience…

    “The family firm, based on Newtonabbey, near Belfast, found itself at the centre of an international storm in summer 2014 after cancelling an order for a cake featuring the Sesame Street characters Bert and Ernie with the slogan “support gay marriage”….

    “Unlike in the rest of the UK or the Republic of Ireland, same-sex marriage is not currently legal in Northern Ireland. Several attempts to change the law in the province have met with opposition.

    “But Judge Isobel Brownlie ruled that refusing to produce a cake calling for the change did amount to discrimination against Mr Lee….

    “…Peter Tatchell, the veteran gay rights campaigner, emerged as a surprise supporter for the McArthurs’ appeal.

    “He said that, while he totally disagreed with their views on gay marriage, it is a basic “infringement of freedom” to force people to promote ideas to which they conscientiously object.”

  28. Everyone wants safe spaces nowadays

    “(CNSNews.com) — Former Rep. Frank Wolf (R-VA) said that Congress is considering the creation of an autonomous region in Iraq to protect Christians and Yazidis from persecution by the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS), and criticized the State Department’s lack of involvement in the ongoing discussions.”

    1. Funny, there was a strain of people back when this all started who suggested that instead of trying to keep Iraq whole – it was basically created by the League of Nations – it get divided up into roughly three nations corresponding to the majority religious/ethnic geographic divides.

      Those people were called crazy because its just patently obvious that no state should ever become *smaller* – they can only grow or be absorbed by another, even larger, state.

      Fuckheads.

  29. Chelsea Clinton speaks at a fundraiser for Hillary:

    “I find it quite insulting sometimes when people say to my mom, my dad or me .?.?. that they question our faith. I was raised in a Methodist church and I left the Baptist church before my dad did, because I didn’t know why they were talking to me about abortion when I was 6 in Sunday school ? that’s a true story.”

    1. A Clinton speaks the truth?

      1. Hell,they can’t spell truth.Notice she was raised Methodist but left the Baptist church of her own will during her childhood.I think she made it up to prove a point.

    2. And now we’ll find out if she’s smarter than a 5th grader and Justin Trudeau.

    3. Stupid and ugly…this spawn must be stopped…oh wait, first we need to deal with her mother….

  30. Hate to break this to you but we already have socialism here, Nick. The question is can we have more, like Canada, Germany, etc., which is where the comparison should be. Cuba is communist, but good try anyway.

    What a shallow article.

      1. I laughed…jackass, what a jackass…

    1. Yeh. Be more like Canada. Aim for mediocrity.

      1. And much less free speech and lots of gun control.I did enjoy my fishing trips there.Nice folks too.

        1. Canada = stability.

          1. He offered you *order*!

      2. That’s funny. I read libertarian thoughts here everyday, and it’s a constant rant about how bad things are here in the U.S., and how bleak the future is.

        Maybe we should aspire to mediocrity…

        1. Jackand Ace|2.11.16 @ 8:12PM|#
          “Maybe *we* should aspire to mediocrity…”

          You and that turd in your pocket certainly should.

      3. Actually, he’s right just for the wrong reasons which is the best he can do.

        Canada’s federal government cut entitlements and spending in the ’90s like no Republican EVER has or probably will. It was glorious.

        1. Once I thought I was wrong. And I was right. So I was wrong. Right?

          1. Very clever. For a 5 year old.

        2. It really was.

    2. We can start by repealing regulations until our economic freedom index matches that of Canada.

    3. Let’s see how that’s working out for Europe shall we? Hmm, France has an 11% unemployment rate. It hasn’t been below 8% for 30 years. Yeah, we should have more of that.

      1. We shall. Since I mentioned that socialist nation of Germany,

        “The German economy expanded about a quarter of a percent in the final three months of 2015, with record employment and expansionary monetary policy fueling domestic consumption at a time of weakening global trade.
        Gross domestic product rose 1.7 percent last year after a gain of 1.6 percent in 2014…with unemployment at a record low, wages rising and oil more than 37 percent cheaper than last year, domestic spending has become the driver of economic growth…”

        But I’m glad to see you key in on unemployment. You are right, France’s rate doesn’t compare to the less than 5% the U.S. has achieved under Obama, although we were close under the last GOP President. .

        1. How’s that labor force participation rate looking? How about the skyrocketing number of disability claims?

          1. Dude, he’s pimping 1.7% annual GDP growth as something to be envied, a number that gets press in the in the US talking about the next great depression. He’s not very bright, and is clearly not capable of handling any amount of second order thinking.

            “BLOMBERG SAYS GERAMNY BEAT GROWF ESTIMAT. GERMNET BETTER TEHN AMERICA, AMREICA NEED BE MOR LIKE GERMANETY”

        2. It’s sort of fun just taking this pile of crap apart:
          Jackand Ace|2.11.16 @ 10:05PM|#
          “The German economy expanded about a quarter of a percent in the final three months of 2015,” -annualized at 1%; big whoop!

          “with record employment and expansionary monetary policy fueling domestic consumption at a time of weakening global trade.” – seems to be missing numbers. Is “record employment” 80%? Who knows? Jack sure doesn’t. And the presumption that X is fueling anything is so much guess-work.

          “But I’m glad to see you key in on unemployment. You are right, France’s rate doesn’t compare to the less than 5% the U.S. has achieved under Obama, although we were close under the last GOP President.” – Ya mean after he drove it up to more than 10% and it finally settled down after he shut up?
          http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000000
          Jack, I’ve said it before; you’re a fucking ignoramus, and in your case, that’s almost a compliment.

    1. Those album covers are American classics.

  31. OT: is there any credibility to claims that Fort Knox is out of gold?

      1. Do you give any credence to the reports that the USG has less gold than is claimed?

        Also, why would China claim to have less gold than they do (Wells Fargoe commodities head says they are under reporting).

        1. Is there a particular fold you like to apply to your tin foil hats, or do you just like the crumpled look?

          1. NAS:

            “Tesla lost nearly $900 million last year”
            […]
            “Tesla Motors reported Wednesday that its losses nearly tripled in the fourth quarter of last year, as the company revved up production of its luxury electric cars and built a massive battery factory in Nevada.
            And yet, the company also forecast profitable days ahead, sending its battered stock higher in after-hours trading. ”
            http://www.sfgate.com/business…..821684.php

            Betting on gov’t support really works, until it doesn’t.

        2. “Also, why would China claim to have less gold than they do (Wells Fargoe commodities head says they are under reporting).”

          Corruption?

      2. Physically, no. But how many claims are out there on that gold?

    1. Yes, it was all transferred to an undisclosed location during the first Clinton administration, that location being a giant vault owned by the Clinton Foundation.

  32. Minor quibble with the subhead. The coast of Cuba is approximately 90 miles from Key West, not Miami.
    Miami to Havana is quite a bit further.

    1. You forgot to add that the title also referred to Cuba as socialist, when more accurately it should be referred to as communist. And rather than go 90 miles away, Nick could have referred to a country we actually share a border with, Canada, that is more socialist than we are.

      1. Communism is socialist, you slack jawed twit.

        Various social reformers in the early 19th century founded communities based on common ownership. But unlike many previous communist communities, they replaced the religious emphasis with a rational and philanthropic basis.[14] Notable among them were Robert Owen, who founded New Harmony in Indiana (1825), and Charles Fourier, whose followers organized other settlements in the United States such as Brook Farm (1841?47).[14] Later in the 19th century, Karl Marx described these social reformers as “utopian socialists” to contrast them with his program of “scientific socialism” (a term coined by Friedrich Engels).

        In its modern form, communism grew out of the socialist movement of 19th-century Europe. As the Industrial Revolution advanced, socialist critics blamed capitalism for the misery of the proletariat?a new class of urban factory workers who labored under often-hazardous conditions. Foremost among these critics were Marx and his associate Friedrich Engels. In 1848, Marx and Engels offered a new definition of communism and popularized the term in their famous pamphlet The Communist Manifesto.[14]

      2. It’s also easy to dispute that Canada is socialist considering they have more regulatory freedom outside of healthcare, a lower top personal income tax rate and a much, much lower corporate tax rate. They have universal socialized medicine instead of our idiotic piecemeal version and a slightly more rigid labor market. Big whoop.

        1. “They have universal socialized medicine instead of our idiotic piecemeal version”

          A while back, I was injured, came home, we discussed it and decided to wait until the next morning to see if care was required.
          Ran into a Cdn MD (here on a ‘temp’ card that never seems to run out, big fan of Cdn ‘healthcare’) at a holiday party that evening (me in ace bandages, crutches), he said ‘In Canada, you don’t wait to see; you GO!’. I asked why: ‘If you don’t go now, you lose your place in line!’
          So the Cdn system is designed to promote over-use; if you don’t establish your place in the queue, you’re screwed.
          As is the Cdn healthcare system; I’ve got more anecdotes but some are unique to the point of more ID than I care to broadcast.
          BTW, when it became obvious the next morning that it *did* require care, we went to the medical facility and I was seen in, oh, 20 minutes, max. No one said anything about a queue.

      3. Jackshit changes definitions depending on what pile of crap he’s peddling at the time.

    2. I might tell you that in Canada, there is universal health, and college education is much cheaper than here in the U.S., which tells you why Nick didn’t use that as an example even if it is more accurate, because then a more socialist nation would look attractive to young US voters.

      1. I know, right?

        Let’s make everything just like that so that we can have less freedom and more taxes! You have convinced me that communism is not socialism! Certainly none of our pure-as-driven-snow leaders would attempt to seize more power than they should. Heavens no.

      2. I might also tell you that most of Asia and Mexico have universal healthcare and college is free in parts of Europe. They all suck balls compared to America. They don’t have the economy to support 300 million people. We have 100 times more immigrant population than Canada, which is like what Minnesota or Alaska would look like if they obtained nationhood.

        I was enrolled in ROK’s national healthcare system the minute I was born in Seoul. South Korea has jamming public transportation and their internet speed is top notch. That doesn’t stop thousands of Koreans from escaping their current situations. That’s because that country adopts the “democratic socialism” model advocated by Sanders.

      3. I might also tell you that most of Asia and Mexico have universal healthcare and college is free in parts of Europe. They all suck balls compared to America. They don’t have the economy to support 300 million people. We have 100 times more immigrant population than Canada, which is like what Minnesota or Alaska would look like if they obtained nationhood.

        I was enrolled in ROK’s national healthcare system the minute I was born in Seoul. South Korea has jamming public transportation and their internet speed is top notch. That doesn’t stop thousands of Koreans from escaping their current situations. That’s because that country adopts the “democratic socialism” model advocated by Sanders.

      4. Jackand Ace|2.11.16 @ 10:39PM|#
        “I might tell you that in Canada, there is universal health, and college education is much cheaper than here in the U.S., which tells you why Nick didn’t use that as an example even if it is more accurate, because then a more socialist nation would look attractive to young US voters.”

        Jack, you continue to amaze with your fucking stupidity:
        “I might tell you that in Canada, there is universal health” – Yeah, if you live long enough to get some after you need it.

        “and college education is much cheaper than here in the U.S., which tells you why Nick didn’t use that as an example even if it is more accurate,” – You bet! Dirt cheap and worth every penny! I presume you got your ‘education’ at a cut-rate school, right? I mean, if you didn’t, you should be suing them.

        “because then a more socialist nation would look attractive to young US voters.” – Yeah, free shit appeals to ignoramuses and adolescents.

      5. “College education is much cheaper than here in the U.S.”

        Don’t you mean that the taxpayers cover the costs?

        There’s no reason to think it costs less per student. It’s just that the taxpayers are keeping the price of tuition down.

        Quite frankly, I prefer a system where the people doing the studying are paying for it themselves. Why should people who never go to college have to pay for those that do?

        And if minorities aren’t going to college as much, isn’t billing the taxpayers kind of racist? Why should minorities be forced to pay through taxes on their paychecks for white people to go to school?

        1. Taxpayers aren’t even successful at keeping the costs down. Sure, your *final* payment may be low, but you, your parents, your neighbors, random passerby on the street – *they’ve* been paying in for years to fund your education.

          1. Taxpayers aren’t even successful at keeping the costs down.

            The government can’t keep costs down, it can only pay less for things. Some lefty deserves a lot of “credit” for indelibly conflating aggregate spending with cost.

            All of the “free” college in Europe only goes to the people who the government thinks can hack it. Although it varies from country to country, generally speaking more people get shunted into what we would call vo-tech than go to college.

            1. I only said the government keeps the price of tuition down.

              Not costs down.

  33. This is a stupid argument against Socialism. Cuba is a shit hole not because of Socialism, but because a fucking dictator took over. There are plenty of countries with socialist views that are doing fine. Fucking ignorant idiots are fine with the US’s corporate welfare, but if you mention anything like free health care or free education you lose your shit.

    1. Jesus Christ, at least read some fucking Marx before spouting off about what socialism is. I swear to God the left has gotten stupid lately.

      Obviously Cuba is not the same as Canada or France. When calling the latter socialist, people really mean “social welfare states” which is a different animal from dyed-in-the-wool Marxist socialism.

      You could also do something to learn about Cuba’s history. There was already a dictator there before, his name was Fulgencia Batista. The current dictators, the Castro family, took over on promises to deliver control of the country to the people. Darlings of the far left like Che Guevara supported them and their “revolution of the proletariat”. The reason Cuba is the way it is now is as much due to ideology as dictatorial strong-arming.

    2. “There are plenty of countries with socialist views that are doing fine.”

      Show me a socialistic country with a higher standard of living than the United States, and I’ll show you Norway, which only has 5 million people and a tremendous amount of oil.

      The next socialistic country on the list is Sweden, where the people make do with living standards that are about $9,000 per year less than what people enjoy here in the United States.

      http://tinyurl.com/l4zdx28

      The United States is the one that’s doing fine.

      “Fucking ignorant idiots are fine with the US’s corporate welfare”

      I’ve never met a single libertarian who was fine with corporate welfare. You have no idea what you’re talking about.

      You’re an ignoramus in the truest sense.

    3. F.Castro|2.12.16 @ 2:55AM|#
      “This is a stupid argument against Socialism.”

      And a cretin like you shows up to prove it’s 100% correct.
      Fuck off, slaver.

  34. The No True Scotsman fallacy is alive and well among Socialists. As has been pointed out above, socialists blame capitalism and the claim that “true socialism has never been tried” when confronted with the many examples of failed socialist states.

    Recently, in a discussion with a socialist on twitter, my opponent posted this graphic as an explaination of why socialism has failed:
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CayrD0xW4AEr3Ei.jpg

    1. Real socialism has been tried and delivered. The Jewish kibbutzim, for example. Also, most families run on a more-or-less socialist model. Children have “free access to goods and services” provided by their parents. But those systems have strict rules since goods and services don’t magically produce themselves and the lazy layabouts who spout on Twitter aren’t going to lift a finger to make them without someone forcing them to.

      Want to see real socialism in action? Go visit a commune in the Pacific Northwest.

  35. just before I looked at the bank draft 4 $4970 , I accept …that…my father in law was like they say actualie making money in there spare time from their laptop. . there great aunt had bean doing this for less than thirteen months and at present paid the mortgage on there condo and purchased a brand new Volkswagen Golf GTI . check out here….

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  37. my classmate’s mother-in-law makes $78 hourly on the computer . She has been out of work for 6 months but last month her check was $17581 just working on the computer for a few hours. view website…..
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  38. The technology is so developed that we can watch videos, live streaming, TV serials and any of our missed programs within our mobiles and PCs. Showbox
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