Political Correctness

When Beatlemania Is a Microaggression…

It is time to rejoice, for all our troubles are so far away...

|

Over at National Review, Kat Timpf (also a featured panelist on Greg Gutfeld's Saturday night Fox News show), relates a tale that sums up the low stakes of much debate over political correctness, microaggressions, and the like.

Forget about mediocre ethnic food served up in cafeterias, claiming that "America is the land of opportunity," or saying yoga is yoga, rather than "mindful stretching."

It's Beatlemania that is culturally insensitive and intolerant. Psychology professor Adam J. Rodriguez of California's Notre Dame de Namaur University tells the story of a friend who "is a really, really big Beatles fan" and "insisted that I dedicate time to listen to them."

Summarizes Timpf:

Rodriguez, who is Puerto Rican, explained that his friend was part of "the dominant culture" that makes people Beatles fans — and the fact that he dared to criticize Rodriguez for not being one was insensitive and meant he just didn't recognize the "power and privileges" he had as a white dude that Rodriguez did not have.

"All cultures contain within them many subcultures, with one cultural dimension often dominant," Rodriguez wrote. "When one is a member of the dominant culture, that person enjoys particular power and privileges, including the freedom to not have to consider other perspectives."…

According to Rodriguez, his friend was just not culturally literate enough to realize that while he "grew up a white middle-class male in the 70s and 80s, to parents who grew up on the Beatles," Rodriguez grew up "a Puerto Rican lower-class male in the 80s whose parents played guajira, salsa, and Motown/classic R&B/soul."

Timpf's piece is here. Rodriguez originally wrote his article in October for Psyched in San Francisco and it was reprinted a few weeks ago at The Huffington Post. He explains further:

My lack of interest in [the Beatles'] music could only be understood by [my friend] as psychopathology. I was flawed….

Note though that I do have a historical appreciation for the Beatles and Led Zeppelin and Andy Warhol and The Great Gatsby. This is because these are important cultural elements of the dominant culture within which I live. Oscar Hernandez, James Jamerson, and Hunger of Memory are not part of the dominant culture in the same ways. This dynamic occurs in many situations: The person from the non-dominant culture is knowledgeable in dominant culture ideals and values, but the person from the dominant culture is not conversant in aspects of the non-dominant culture. For example, at the playground, heteronormative parents playfully ask my 3-year-old if he "has a girlfriend yet" despite the fact that I truly do not know what my son's sexual orientation, or gender identification for that matter, is and will be. Because the dominant group's perspective is vast institutionally reinforced, this can lead to others feeling excluded, other, or "less than."

There is an implication of a paradigm of normality, and when someone does not fit into that paradigm, it can be uncomfortable for that person, especially if they are dismissed because of their difference like I was.

Read more here.

For the record, I sympathize completely with Rodriguez regarding his opinion of the Beatles, whom I've long seen as a plague upon pop music and generational equity. I'm also willing to stand toe to toe with anyone when it comes to knowing every stupid detail of the Fab Four's history (for an excellent Reason story about why the Beatles remain so popular, go here).

And as the child of parents raised in immigrant households in the 1920s and '30s, I also have a strong sense of how dominant cultures can oppress newcomers even when they are relatively welcoming and ultimately accomodating to all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds. For the record, my parents had no appreciation for or understanding of the Beatles, either. Indeed, when I came home from a late night the evening that John Lennon had been shot, my father told me that "one of those Beatles had been killed." When I asked which one, he shrugged and said, "Not the one with the nose, the one with the wife."

To be sure, Rodriguez's friend, like all friends who have a band or performer they absoutely insist that YOU MUST LOVE, sounds like a real pain in the ass (however well-meaning he might be).

What bothers me ultimately in all this is the sheer banality and humorlessness of Rodriguez's complaint, the hypersensitivity to real and imagined slights, especially at a time when the most serious and punishing forms of racism and cultural insensitivity have mostly been vanquished from everyday society. Which isn't to say everything is peachy. I suspect he would agree with me that the drug war continues at least in part because of institutional racism that views black and dark-skinned casualties as less worth of concern than, say, Al Gore's son. Immigration policy has always been influenced by manifest and latent racial prejudice and that certainly still is the case. White Americans tolerate and even insist on maintaining godawful urban public schools because the mostly minority kids who go there don't matter to them (this is changing, of course, and many advocates of school choice talk about the issue as the civil rights struggle of our day). And on and on.

Yet on virtually every level, things are vastly different than they were when, say, my Italian relatives in the '30s and '40s were dismissed out of hand as not being college material due to their ethnicity and lower-class status. If you're getting that bent out of shape because your friend (friend!) is forcing you to listen to the French horn solo on "For No One" or pretend that "Revolution 9" doesn't totally suck, you've got nothing left to complain about. And that's not even addressing the fact that knowing both dominant-culture codes and non-dominant-culture mores clearly gives a person more ways to operate within a given system. 

When you go back and read Hunger of Memory, the great 1980s memoir by Richard Rodriguez name-checked by Adam Rodriguez, being forced to listen to the Beatles as the result of an overzealous friend isn't the heart of the matter. Richard Rodriguez, whose books and essays explore what it means to be Mexican American, working class, smart, gay, Catholic, and more was pilloried for questioning bilingual education and affirmative action quotas in higher education. A thoughtful progressive, he told Reason in a 1994 interview that there existed a serious resistance on the left to actual diversity of thought:

What people mean by multiculturalism is different hues of themselves. They don't mean Islamic fundamentalists or skinheads. They mean other brown and black students who share opinions like theirs. It isn't diversity. It's a pretense to diversity. And this is an exposure of it—they can't even tolerate my paltry opinion.

There has never been less of a dominant monoculture than ever before and there has never been as open a standing invitation to open people's minds to what you like, care about, and think is totally fab and gear. Without a doubt, there are people who are convinced and terrified that the world they grew up is in its death throes (watch this if you don't believe me), which only underscores the point that the mainstream has shrunk since the mid-'90s when we talked with Rodriguez, much less 1970, when the Beatles broke up (thank you for that, Yoko Ono, thank you, thank you, thank you). From that 1994 interview again:

Most people tend to use culture in a static sense—he represents this culture and I represent this culture. I think culture is much more fluid and experiential. I belong to many cultures. I've had many cultural experiences. And the notion that I've lost my culture is ludicrous. because you can't lose a culture. You can change a culture in your lifetime. as in fact most of us do. I'm not my father. I didn't grow up in the state of Colima in Western Mexico. I grew up in California in the 1950s. The notion that I've lost his culture is, of course, at some level true, but not interesting. The interesting thing is that my culture is I Love Lucy.

For the perpetually aggrieved, time has stood still as it did for Miss Havisham and they mistake the current moment, which has different problems and advantages and contexts, for a past whose issues and indignities no longer pertain in the same way. The hunt is always afoot not for moving to a future that is open-ended, inclusive, and far more interesting and innovative than the present but for reviving and maintaining grievances, no matter how trivial and inconsequential. And in the grand scheme of things, there are far worse things to deal with than having to brush off questions about your toddler's sexuality or suffering through "Octopus' Garden."

In 2014, Reason TV talked with some of the students responsible for instituting "trigger warnings" at University of California at Santa Barbara. Take a look:

NEXT: Washington Post Calls for Reform of Maryland LEO Bill of Rights, a 'Shield for Police Misbehavior'

Editor's Note: We invite comments and request that they be civil and on-topic. We do not moderate or assume any responsibility for comments, which are owned by the readers who post them. Comments do not represent the views of Reason.com or Reason Foundation. We reserve the right to delete any comment for any reason at any time. Report abuses.

  1. For the record, I sympathize completely with Rodriguez regarding his opinion of the Beatles, whom I’ve long seen as a plague upon pop music and generational equity. I’m also willing to stand toe to toe with anyone when it comes to knowing every stupid detail of the Fab Four’s history

    Sigh. Nick is *so* dreamy!

    Seriously. I never want to hear another Beatles song. Ever.

    This does nothing to change the fact that Adam J. Rodriguez is an over-educated, self-important twat.

    1. Credit to the education system. I can’t imagine how difficult it must be to create this level of stupidity.

      1. “I majored in Pompousness Studies.”

        1. Perfect.

          Especially since the correct term is “Pomposity”.

          1. Er, I meant to do that. Yeah.

            I was just talking to someone yesterday about the ness/ity rule. Neither of us knew if there even was one.

            1. Ness/ity is the mother of invention, right?

              1. No, necessity is the mother of invention. Ness/ity is the mother of intervention. I think.

            2. ‘ness’ works with Germanic roots. ‘ity’ with Latin.

              1. ‘ness’ works with Germanic roots.

                You meant “geranium roots”…right?

        2. Um, that would be Pomposity studies.

  2. For the record, I sympathize completely with Rodriguez regarding his opinion of the Beatles, whom I’ve long seen as a plague upon pop music and generational equity.

    Preach it, brother Nick.

    1. Yeah… shit so true. If I had a nickel for every time I have lamented the various plagues upon “generational equity” (whatever the fuck that is), then I would have…. no nickels.

      I’m starting to think that Mr Rodriguez may not be the only self-important twat ( to use JW’s formulation above) in this story…

    2. Is “generational equity” a cosmo version of the old “When I was your age shit was better”?

      1. I can’t even begin to parse what it means. It sounds like a recipe for cultural stagnation. New generations are supposed to like new and different things. That doesn’t mean you have to shit all over the old stuff, but let’s not pay it undue reverence, either.

        1. Get off my lawn!!!

          1. No! It’s:

            “Hey, hey. You, you. Get Off of my cloud!”

            There was even an anti-Beatles position during Beatlemania in the music world.

  3. Let’s face it, “Taxman” was pretty racist. And don’t even get me started on the title of its album.

    1. The band’s use of the sitar in many of their songs was a culturally appropriative microaggression.

      1. YOU’RE A TOWEL!!!

  4. Honestly I grew to hate 70’s and 80’s music in college because it was all my friend group would listen to. Difference is I don’t have the get out of jail free card of blaming everything I don’t like on racism.

    1. Are you a child of parents born in a immigrant household during the 1920’s and ’30s?

      1. Hell no, I’m born from parents born in the seventies who met over a D&D game. A minority but not one that matters.

        1. Illocust said @11:43:02:

          born from parents born in the seventies

          Ageist microaggressor!!

  5. I’m a rolling stones man myself.

    1. Me too. It’s funny because I was just listening to this while on the AM links. Goddam Mick Taylor was the man.

      1. Most overrated band EVAH!

        Radiohead?

          1. Just one man’s opinion…

            …and not that of “the dominant culture”. I’ll check my white privilege.

  6. According to Rodriguez, his friend was just not culturally literate enough to realize that while he “grew up a white middle-class male in the 70s and 80s, to parents who grew up on the Beatles,” Rodriguez grew up “a Puerto Rican lower-class male in the 80s whose parents played guajira, salsa, and Motown/classic R&B/soul.”

    Oh for flying fuck’s sake, what does any of that have to do with the friend’s belief that the Beatles are worth listening to? Nobody in my family “grew up on the Beatles” but hey look at that, I like them anyway. How on earth can that be??

    1. Unpossible.

    2. I would be surprised if my parents could name any of the Beatles and they were born in the US and were in their 20s in the 60’s.

    3. I’m wondering how on earth that can be, as well. Their music is best performed by someone else. And to further illustrate my point with an irrelevancy, here’s Lennon making fun of a handicapped fan.

      1. Their music is best performed by someone else.

        A reference to the Wilson Pickett/Duane Allman version of “Hey Jude,” or another Shatner reference? Huh? It is all about Shatner with you, isn’t it?

        1. Cocker made quite a nice living performing Beatles songs too.

      2. Their music is best performed by someone else.

        You’re confusing the Beatles with Bob Dylan. Most Beatles covers suck.

        1. How dare you try to refute my objective analysis with your subjective opinion.

          1. objective….

            mmkay

        2. The McCartney/Lennon song book is extensive and valuable. And lives on to this day.

          One of the measures of the economic value of music is how long it lives on.

          For those of you here too young to remember, Eric Burden and the Animals had a great hit with a song so old, that no one knows who wrote it. Thus, no need to pay royalties when one plays it.

          The House of the Rising Sun.

    4. I wonder if Rodriguez grew up in Puerto Rico or the South Bronx. He might also be mad about being called “Neo Rican” and not accepted by Puerto Ricans in Puerto Rico. And the experience is very different. Puerto Rico in the 70s and 80s was Willie Colon, Yaucono cafe, wearing uniforms to school, Iris Chacon, break dancing in the streets after school, novelas. etc. New York, even with a Puerto Rican family, was and is a very different cultural experience.

  7. “everything outside my contrived identity-bubble is oppressing me”

    1. ^This. It’s microaggressions all the way down.

      1. ^This. It’s microaggressions bullshit all the way down.

        FTFY.

  8. When one is a member of the dominant culture, that person enjoys particular power and privileges, including the freedom to not have to consider other perspectives

    Only members of the dominant culture can tell their friends to drop it with this Beatles shit already?

    1. As a member of the dominant culture, I don’t ever have to consider other perspectives.

      It’s just pure, white, heterosexual libertopia all around me.

  9. Stop giving a voice to ridiculously self-important, tedious screeds.

    1. That would be nice, wouldn’t it.

    2. Wait, then Kat Timpf would be out of a job. Strike my previous comment from the Hit and Run record.

      1. There are some really good looking conservative women out there.

        1. The glasses totally detract from the other things …

    3. You mean Nick’s…

      For the record, I sympathize completely with Rodriguez regarding his opinion of the Beatles, whom I’ve long seen as a plague upon pop music and generational equity. I’m also willing to stand toe to toe with anyone when it comes to knowing every stupid detail of the Fab Four’s history (for an excellent Reason story about why the Beatles remain so popular, go here).

      Always have to work in this kind of stuff, eh?

      1. It seems to be part of their new style guide. Every article has to have a paragraph that says the author sort-kinda-maybe sees that the people he’s complaining about might have a point if you look at it in a certain way.

        1. If you squint hard enough Josef Stalin kinda looks like a harmless baby walrus.

          1. But, but, but…..”He was a nice boy”.

            Then they go on to admit to his criminal record, numerous offspring with various women and time in prison served.

            That cliche is attached to every low life crime suspect arrested in our local paper.

      2. It’s cocktail parties all the way down.

  10. How about asshat just wears a sign around his neck that says “White people, please don’t talk to me because I’m a huge pussy”.

    1. That’s othering to men who have vaginas.

      1. +1 Buck Angel

  11. it can be uncomfortable for that person, especially if they are dismissed because of their difference like I was

    If he was trying to get you to listen to music because, I don’t know, he thought you might fucking ENJOY it, how is he dismissing you? Dismissing would be not even giving enough of a fuck about you to share anything.

  12. Why are there pictures from a Planned Parenthood office party on that album cover, anyway?

    1. why not?

  13. Practically every book or program every created involving self improvement is anchored in the requirement that people take responsibility for their condition, to stop placing blame on others for their problems. You don’t have to be a self help fan to recognize how important this simple concept is. People that engage in this sort of constant taking of offense are ensuring that they’ll never be happy in life. Yeah, maybe they’ll get some sort of special dispensation from the government for this or that but they’ll never be satisfied. It’s the anti-self-help movement.

    1. Self-help is dangerously close to independence, and that’s incompatible with the Progressive ideology.

  14. Catch you with another man, that’s the end of, little girl…

    Sounds like macro-aggression to me.

  15. My dad is a Beatles fan, I can’t stand them. Checkmate self-righteous douchebag.

    1. You hate a band because a person you don’t like likes them? That’s stupid.

      1. This question/statement makes no sense.

    2. My dad was a SInatra fan. I couldn’t stand him or, any of the other singers of American Standards. I was a rock and roller. Oh yeah.

      But I was so much older then. I’m younger than that now.

      And, I have the Sinatra station on my SiriusXM all the time. Love it.

      If you want to hear what comedy was like before PC took over, just listen to the recordings of the Rat Pack live at the Sands Hotel. If you aren’t rolling on the floor after the initial shock of hearing the non-PC banter that goes on, you are a lost cause.

      I’m still a rock and roller. Oh yeah. But, I’ve managed to branch out in life as I got older. Anyone with a lick of sense will end up doing the same.

  16. what better way to plug your book no one wants to read, with the world’s most non-compelling subtitle, than to tie it in with something people are interested in.

  17. Has anyone ever suggested that the current “Alt-right” (the neo-reactionary, unapologetically-racist political trend) …

    ….is an obvious by-product of the “Everything Be Oppressings Mah Cultures”-narrative of the Left, where you’re either a PoC or a disadvantaged-gender… or you’re The Problem?

    Maybe the 2 things have nothing to do with one another… at least in their origins. But my impression is that they now feed off each other. Or have become 2 sides of the same basic coin.

    I grew up during a period of the “Howard Zinn-ification” of culture… where the default posture was that EVERYTHING ‘marginalized’ was “better”, and everything “Dominant Culture” (see: Plato, Shakespeare, Beethoven) was bad because its mere-existence crowded out ‘alternatives’.

    ….after decades of this…. why should people be shocked there would emerge an equally shallow argument based on the very-same cultural butthurt, that the Dominant Culture was DOMINANT BECAUSE IT WAS BETTER, DUH.

    (*tho i think there have been better versions of this kind of argument)

    Why is anyone surprised that the Right eventually decided to get in on the same basic act? Its certainly gross, but i do think its sort of funny that people pearl-clutch over their Racism, while having given a generation of Leonard Jefries types tenure.

    1. As near as I can tell, the alt-right is just doing a search-and-replace of “minority” with “white” for standard-issue proggy/multi-culti arguments. But I really don’t pay any attention to them.

      It could be the most epic troll of all time.

      1. Then, I must be an alt-right and don’t know it.

        My standard test for newspaper articles that I read where “white’ and or “male” are mentioned multiple times, usually in ways that read as “anti-white”, is to replace every mention of these parameters with a non-white or non-male term and see if that would trigger someone.

        Usually doing so, clearly highlights how racist and anti-male the article is. But sadly, it also reminds me of how ridiculous PCness has become and how it is generally accepted now.

    2. Why is anyone surprised that the Right eventually decided to get in on the same basic act?

      The far-Left and alt-Right share 99.997% ideological DNA. One doesn’t need to pan out too far before they look like the same animal.

    3. No, you’re not the only one. And it’s no surprise they hate each other because they’re fighting over the same basic turf, i.e. who is the most aggrieved? It was Hayek, I believe, who recognized similar reasons for the animosity between socialism and fascism, which other, less thoughtful observers attributed to their being opposites – when in fact true liberalism/libertarianism is the real opposition and alternative to the current right and left.

    4. It makes perfect sense. If you’re a hetero white male who is constantly being told that the most fundamental–and unchangeable–parts of your identity not only make you inferior but morally culpable simply by the fact of your existence you’ve got three choices: submit to it and echo the sentiment just a little more loudly a la the Cultural Revolution, recognize it as silly collectivist nonsense and ignore it, or respond by behaving as an aggrieved demographic yourself. I don’t agree with the reactionary element, but I completely understand the sentiment and I sympathize with the motivation.

      1. And, sadly, of the three options, the only one that might result in any positive change is the third one.

      2. Yes.

        And, in the days of my youth the version of that same line of reasoning was, “If you call a little boy a nigger often enough, he’ll believe it”.

        But that assumes the n-word was a bad connotation in the first place. No consideration that it is just a word, usually expressed with hatred and anger. Not really a lot different than when someone calls you an asshole for doing something they don’t like when you’re out in public.

        Lenny Bruce explored this in his work.

    5. This is exactly right. It was insanity to expect the noxious cancer of identity politics could be contained to non-white non-men. The progressive Left created this situation, and they make the alt-right stronger every time they double down on their “everyone who disagrees with me is Hitler” nonsense.

      Your only mistake is to assume the alt-right is actual actually populated primarily with bigots. There are an awful lot of people who hate the perpetually lying, PC progressive weasels so much, they get a thrill from subverting and “triggering” them with “forbidden” speech. (Some even do this honestly in the name of free speech, simply because they’re told they can’t.) Exactly like an internet troll.

  18. Also, if you’re going to oppress someone, at least do it with Hank Williams.

      1. Isn’t it great when you have two good choices? Though Cash is the better one.

      2. I dig Bobby Dylan and I dig Johnny Cash
        And I think Waylon Jennings is a table thumpin’ smash
        And hearin’ Joni Mitchell feels as good as smokin’ grass
        but if you don’t like Hank Williams, honey,…

    1. I constantly pester people to listen to, and enjoy, my old-school blues collection…and I’m as white as Pat Boone.

      Now what?

      (If you don’t have at least one Elmore James tune on your iPod/MP3 player you’re a soulless automaton just waiting for SkyNet to take over.)

      1. I’m surprised you’re not in cultural prison.

      2. One of the things that I’ve learned about music, due to my interest in it over the years, is that it pretty much knows no color. Not to the musicians or the business. Only fans colorize it. Usually to single themselves out.

        I did have a black coworker enter my office one day who seemed shocked that I was listening to a Lionel Hampton CD as I worked. When I smiled and asked her if she thought I was too young to appreciate Mr. Hampton, she spouted out, “No! You’re too white”.

        Good thing I can take such things in stride as just being human. Otherwise, I might have had to file racial insensitivity charges. After all, this was at a public agency. A water district no less. Where we had an AA department with five FTEs and an HR department with only four.

        It’s just the Alice in Wonderland view of the PC world. Up is down and down is up. And everyone is looking for that rabbit hole.

        1. “being human”

          Music is human. Not racial.

  19. “For the record, I sympathize completely with Rodriguez regarding his opinion of the Beatles, whom I’ve long seen as a plague upon pop music and generational equity. I’m also willing to stand toe to toe with anyone when it comes to knowing every stupid detail of the Fab Four’s history (for an excellent Reason story about why the Beatles remain so popular, go here).”

    Well, your opinion. And can be seen as a…MICRO-AGGRESSION! I grew up around musicians all my life and the interesting reasons why they appreciated The Beatles runs contrary to this. Honestly, I don’t quite get the hate of The Beatles among the people around here – so-called music fans don’t go off like that blasting a group that produced masterpieces in such a small period of time.

    People will build a case about how they hate this I guess.

    But The Stones (and all the crap they produced) and Zeppelin (slightly over done) are better, right?

    Please.

    Scratch those two bands and you have American blues. Scratch The Beatles and you have something truly original.

    And just to piss you people off – I listen to Revolver a lot – and my daughter loves it.

    /gives middle finger.

    1. People will build a case about how ‘they hate this and that’ I guess.

    2. Scratch The Beatles and you have something truly original.

      Their early stuff was mostly just American rock and roll, done poppy and fun. Their middle period stuff (Sergeant Pepper, etc.) was mostly an updating of the English music hall tradition to rock and pop. Their late stuff was, well, kinda disjointed and druggy and weird(er). I actually think their early stuff is the most fun, and the middle stuff was the most creative.

      1. ALL British bands were influenced by American rock and roll and rhythm and blues. Point is they evolved significantly and their influence is not bull shit despite what smart-alec hipsters think or say.

        And cards on the table: The greatest period in rock history comes from the 1950s.

        1. That’s what made the British invasion so interesting. America had let go of its roots music. But, some people in England were fascinated with it, worked with it and returned it to us in an evolved form for our pleasure. Thus, rock and roll as it was known, took on whole new journey. It came around 360 degrees.

      2. They also are credited with reviving love songs when that genre had died.

    3. And just to piss you people off – I listen to Revolver a lot – and my daughter loves it.

      Ditto.

    4. The Beatles, the Stones, and Zeppelin are all junk noise for the most part. Maybe two or three decent songs each, but not more than that.

      1. To YOU.

        I think they have way more than that. Exile on Main St. and Abbey Road alone have a bunch.

        1. To YOU

          Well duh. I listen to a lot of classic rock, Beatles, Stones, and Zeppelin are among the worst. I just find the music grating on the ears.

          Of course, classic rock isn’t my preferred style.

          1. I move back and forth between genres.

            I’ve been listening to the 40s jazz station on Sirius lately.

            1. Savoy Express is my shit.

    5. You can certainly make a case that the Beatles deserve mountains of credit for bringing a dimension of musical sophistication to “Pop Music” that was unparalleled. Critics have done so for decades.

      However, there’s a small problem with the argument that they ever “mattered”, especially. Which is that the lowbrow, 3-chord, downbeat-banging, blues-based stuff you deride?… has been far far far more popular and influential and created an explosion of sub-genres that the Beatles harmonic & melodic sophistication completely failed to inspire.

      Sure, Beatles melodies were very nice, and are a great contribution to music. And they should be credited for ‘originality’. But being ‘original’ doesn’t mean everyone will enjoy it. You can find plenty of highly original, unpleasant, avant-garde music too. The Beatles made ‘original’ pop music… that some people might find very appealing on a few listens. But you can’t dance to most of it. And i personally find them a little too sticky and saccharine after a few songs.

      By contrast, the ‘simple’, un-original, blues/gospel/R&B/rock & roll stuff … ultimately wins by sheer force of universal appeal and continued vitality. Every now and then a band will come along and pen some cute tunes that could be charted back to the Beatles. But the vast majority of popular music hardly needs them.

      1. “And i personally find them a little too sticky and saccharine after a few songs.”

        By the time the white album came out, it seemed they were taken by their own press and got a bit ‘precious’ on top of it; saccharine and self-important don’t make a good mix.

        1. Yeh you both make good points. I get all that but White sure cleared all that up, no?

      2. “But you can’t dance to most of it.”

        This matters, why?

        “By contrast, the ‘simple’, un-original, blues/gospel/R&B/rock & roll stuff … ultimately wins by sheer force of universal appeal and continued vitality.”

        You see, I thought it was popular for the same reason that Dan Brown books and Michael Bay movies are popular.

        “Every now and then a band will come along and pen some cute tunes that could be charted back to the Beatles. But the vast majority of popular music hardly needs them.”

        The vast majority of pop music can go fuck itself.

        I mean, I don’t even really like the Beatles, but the idea that their rather bland version of musical originality is what is wrong with them???

        What is that phrase the cool kids use?? ‘I just can’t even…’?

      3. I just hate it when people over-analyze music.

        Art should be enjoyed or, if one finds it distasteful, left alone. It’s not meant to be dissected into bits and pieces.

        I saw an interview with John Sebastian (The Loving Spoonful) a while back where he emphasized that, while much of the rock/pop music going on at the time was analyzed constantly for political and social messages, he was just having fun with music and felt disdain for artists and fans who tried to take the fun out of it by attributing messages and alternative meanings to every song. I could completely understand, His positive attitude and outlook were the antithesis to those of SJW artists like John Lennon or David Crosby.

        Jimi Hendrix was the same way based on what I’ve seen of his interviews. He just wanted to create and play and have a good time. Not get wrapped up in the latest cause de jour.

    6. Word. Beatles were amazing. Each with their own unique voice (sorry Ringo, your songs still suck), and they reinvented themselves at least 3 times. Maybe it’s because John was such an asshole that it’s cool to hate on them. Or because Yoko exists. Or because Paul talks funny and writes incredible pop songs. George is beyond reproach.

      1. Except for Octopus’ Garden. /wink.

      2. I think it’s over exposure. I’m friend with two people who love the beatles (not the college friends mentioned earlier), and the way they rave you’d think the songs would make me see heaven. Instead they are a collection of okay songs and some I truly don’t like (Hey Jude, is just so much not the type of song I enjoy listening to).

      3. Weird Al said it best, “This song is six words long”

    7. “Honestly, I don’t quite get the hate of The Beatles among the people around here ”

      For the same reasons that people love to hate Walmart. Or, in my day “the phone company”. It’s de rigeur to blast the biggest and most successful among us. It’s the American way.

      Reason fans should beware of this. It’s a tragic approach to life that ends badly at some point. Think Atlas Shrugged.

  20. “For example, at the playground, heteronormative parents playfully ask my 3-year-old if he “has a girlfriend yet” despite the fact that I truly do not know what my son’s sexual orientation, or gender identification for that matter, is and will be.”

    I have a feeling this kid is gonna come home from school one day, eating a (forbidden) greasy burger and say “Dad, what the fuck IS it with you?!”

    1. I guess he would prefer them to ask his three-year old if he is a power bottom yet?

  21. I also have a strong sense of how dominant cultures can oppress newcomers even when they are relatively welcoming and ultimately accomodating to all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds

    This is also known as “assimilation”. If there is no social pressure to assimilate, its not likely to happen.

    1. My grandfather passed away over Christmas, and there was much reminiscing about his early life and heritage. We’ve always kept some of the Slovak traditions alive, particularly around Christmas, and there were also some at his funeral. It got me thinking about a few things. First, as was often repeated, he was a proud Slovak but an even prouder American, and I dare say the same was true of his parents, who actually came over from the Old Country. Second, a lot of those “Slovak” traditions we celebrate? Our friend who is actually from Slovakia only vaguely recognizes some of them. They got mixed with traditions from other ethnic groups and changed in response to what was available in America at the time. The food changed, the music changed, the clothing changed. And none of that is tragic, because that is what cultures do. It’s cool that we can respect the past without freezing it in time. It makes it a living, continuing thing, instead of an artifact that belongs in a museum.

      Was that oppression, assimilation? Maybe. But more importantly it was creation.

      1. I think “assimilation” done by a civil society will look a lot like the hybrid traditions that your family now has.

        And that’s a good thing.

      2. Condolences Lynch.

      3. Yes. My family was German immigrants. Only, they were really part of this German sect – 3 million strong at their zenith – that had been living in Russia for several generations. Eventually, from the late 1800s to the early 1900s, large segments of their cohort migrated to North and South Dakota.

        I was led to believe that their food, their language and their traditions were German. But, adulthood and an authentic German girlfriend in college, brought me to the understanding that this was not true. Their language, their traditions and their food was Germanic based, but has evolved, maybe even mutated, over all of those years. They had hybridized with the various cultures they encountered in their various locales.

        My wife is Portuguese. Speaks the language, was raised Catholic and cooks Portuguese dishes. And yet, she isn’t Portuguese the way someone from Lisbon would be. You see, she was born in the Azores. And, those islands have changed hands many times over a couple of thousand years. Spain, Portugal, Japan. Worse, every navy in the world has ported there at one time or another. Including the U.S. Navy in WWII. There is still a U.S. airbase on her island today. People from the Azores say they are Portuguese, but they are really Heinz 57 in bloodline.

        On top of all that, my wife was raised in the CA central valley on a dairy farm. She’s actually about as American as one can be.

        That’s just how it is. It’s nature. You can’t fight it.

  22. This Rodriquez fellow is irritating and typical of the ‘I’m too smart for you and why can’t you understand I’m not you’ sort of breed now running around spewing their utter banal crap. We all have, as sons and daughters of immigrants (as Nick explained), experienced what he did. The difference is we’re not insufferable about it.

    Beatles FOREVER. AND Bruce Springsteen and the E Street Band.

    Got that?

    /Double middle-fingers. Now if you don’t mind I have to go culturally appropriate Lebanese food for this evening’s supper.

    1. Never Go Full E-Street

      1. I JUST DID!

        /van Zandt grin.

        1. By the way, he has a great show on Sirius. Love his tidbits and stories.

  23. When people hit me with that tired blather about The Beatles, I argue that I’d far rather listen to The Knack, and they go apoplectic. It’s fun!

    1. Well, they were supposed to be the ‘next’ Beatles.

      Good girls don’t, DO YOU?

    1. Or, the guy at the end of this

        1. Yeh but I would have punched him nonetheless. The guy exhibits traits of being on the autism spectrum scale.

  24. The proggie is a psychologist. So he has two types of crazy he is working with.

  25. Q: “Does your toddler have a girlfriend yet?”
    A: “NO! HE’S A TODDLER! SHEESH!”

    1. A: Yes. Get your little slutspawn away from him. He has far better prospects.

    2. A: No, he thinks a relationship would distract him from pursuing his professional goals.

  26. “Note though that I do have a historical appreciation for the Beatles and Led Zeppelin and Andy Warhol and The Great Gatsby. This is because these are important cultural elements of the dominant culture within which I live. Oscar Hernandez, James Jamerson, and Hunger of Memory are not part of the dominant culture in the same ways. This dynamic occurs in many situations: The person from the non-dominant culture is knowledgeable in dominant culture ideals and values, but the person from the dominant culture is not conversant in aspects of the non-dominant culture.”

    Well, I’m out of here. I’ve gotta go learn the music and writings of every existing culture, because I may create a “friendship” with someone raised in a different culture, and if I don’t know the major cultural works of that person’s upbringing, he or she may feel excluded and take offense.

    1. Its almost like a dominant culture is one that everyone who lives there is familiar with. By definition. And a non-dominant culture is one that fewer people are familiar with. By definition.

      This is what passes as insightful analysis?

  27. Lemmy is dead.

    1. The only sadder day for me, in terms of music, was when Ronnie James Dio passed.

      Having said that, I just heard Motorhead’s cover of Sympathy for the Devil, and the band rocked. But Lemmie kind of sucked ass.

  28. “For example, at the playground, heteronormative parents playfully ask my 3-year-old if he “has a girlfriend yet” despite the fact that I truly do not know what my son’s sexual orientation, or gender identification for that matter, is and will be.”

    If he were as literate as he says he would realize that those hereronormative parents have a 95% chance of being correct.

    1. The toddler has a fucking penis and testicles, and doesn’t have a vagina. Pretty good chance that makes the toddler a FUCKING BOY.

      Is it possible that he grows up gay? Sure. But the odds are against it. And while I would agree that every individual should be treated with respect, it doesn’t mean that we should force people to suspend their ability to make a logical conclusion, even when a small percentage of the time they might be wrong.

      I live in Kansas. People tell me Merry Christmas all the time. I don’t tell them “Fuck off, I am not a Christian!”. I say
      “Thanks, Merry Christmas to you!”.

  29. I don’t hate the Beatles. But FFS:
    “She loves you ya, ya, ya!”
    “I wanna hold your ha-a-a-a-and. I wanna hold your hand.”
    “We all live in a yellow submarine, yellow submarine, yellow submarine”

    I was never a big Zeppelin fan, but compare that shit to Kasmir or Stairway.

    Besides, we still have Iron Maiden. And they are better than all of this other shit!

  30. Seriously, if you read the complainants bio, it would be hard to imagine a more contorted effort to feel hurt at every turn in life. What a pussy.

    http://www.dradamrodriguez.com/about-me/

  31. My lack of interest in [the Beatles’] music could only be understood by [my friend] as psychopathology. I was flawed….

    No dude your friend was just trying to introduce you to something he really likes and thinks you might also – because its really good and, as far as The Beatles go, have been show, over *decades* to have a popularity that crosses cultural boundaries (dominant or otherwise).

    But you know what your (hopefully, now former) friend *does* understand as psychopathology? You’re ridiculous inferiority complex and determination to portray yourself as a victim despite all the evidence to the contrary.

    Oh, hey – have you introduced your friend to any globe-spanning PR musical empires? Or would telling him anything about Puerto Rico be condoning ‘cultural appropriation’ should he actually *like* any of it? Why are you even here if you can only relate to foreign cultures through a lens of dominance/submission? Stay on the Island and no one can victimize you.

  32. The essay is rather thick with academic frippery. But if you drill down, I think he has two legitimate complaints, one banal, and one worth thinking about.

    BANAL: He wishes his friend would shut up about the Beatles. A lot of us have this guy as a friend. He won’t shut up about the Beatles, or model trains, or Dungeons & Dragons, or something.

    WORTH THINKING ABOUT: Gillespie touches on this point here:

    And as the child of parents raised in immigrant households in the 1920s and ’30s, I also have a strong sense of how dominant cultures can oppress newcomers even when they are relatively welcoming and ultimately accomodating to all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds.

    I think it’s entirely appropriate to worry if the dominant US culture is swallowing up your own culture. In that situation, I can understand if somebody feels like his unique identity is slowly slipping away. Also, it’s hard to pass your cultural identity (whatever that identity might be) on to your kids if they’re getting a daily diet of Justin Bieber, Taylor Swift, and Carly Rae Jepsen.

    1. You . . . you don’t come to the *mainland US* and complain how people in the *mainland US* are oppressing your culture in the *mainland US*.

      If you feel that being on the *mainland US* is exposing you to unbearable levels of oppression – you go back to the fucking Island where *your culture is the dominant one*.

      1. So no, he doesn’t have *any* legitimate complaints.

        1. If the guy wants his friend to shut up about The Beatles – man the fuck up and tell him you’re not interested and will never be.

        2. If he feels oppressed because the place he moved to doesn’t spend a lot of time openly valuing the *culture he voluntarily left behind* – well, there’s no hope for him. If we listened to PR singers we’d be ‘culturally appropriating’ and if we don’t we’re ‘cultural imperialists’.

        Strange game. The only winning move is not to play.

    2. If you want to get more traction with your trenchant thought, broaden it out beyond just immigrant vs native to any non-mainstream vs lowest common denominator crap.

  33. The essay is rather thick with academic frippery. But if you drill down, I think he has two legitimate complaints, one banal, and one worth thinking about.

    BANAL: He wishes his friend would shut up about the Beatles. A lot of us have this guy as a friend. He won’t shut up about the Beatles, or model trains, or Dungeons & Dragons, or something.

    WORTH THINKING ABOUT: Gillespie touches on this point here:

    And as the child of parents raised in immigrant households in the 1920s and ’30s, I also have a strong sense of how dominant cultures can oppress newcomers even when they are relatively welcoming and ultimately accomodating to all sorts of people from all sorts of backgrounds.

    I think it’s entirely appropriate to worry if the dominant US culture is swallowing up your own culture. In that situation, I can understand if somebody feels like his unique identity is slowly slipping away. Also, it’s hard to pass your cultural identity (whatever that identity might be) on to your kids if they’re getting a daily diet of Justin Bieber, Taylor Swift, and Carly Rae Jepsen.

    1. As a 4th gen American, I got married in my kilt and my bride got piped in. But, in all fairness, I had to rediscover my roots (Scottish on my mom’s side, German on my dad’s). So Scottish dress, music and booze, and old-time Germanic religion! (Wouldn’t work the other way: don’t like lederhosen, oompah bands or schnaps. And those fucking John Knox types don’t know how to have any fun).

      1. Or for a fair comparison, we don’t jack shit about druids or ancient celtic religion (and those fucking idiots that go around saying they are druids or wiccan just make shit up as they go)

      2. Its like the joke about the difference between Heaven and Hell.

        In heaven…

        The engineers are German
        The Italians are the designers
        The British are the financiers
        And the French are the cooks

        In Hell…

        The designers are German
        The financiers are Italian
        The cooks are British
        The engineers are French

        1. I prefer this version:
          In Heaven:
          The engineers are German
          The lovers are Italian
          The chefs are French
          The police are British

          In Hell:
          The engineers are Italian
          The lovers are French
          The chefs are British
          The police are German

    2. You are giving this wanker far too much credit for his whiny ass bullshit argument. If his Puerto Rican culture is that valuable then he should pass those aspects along to his kids, who as autonomous individuals can decide which, if any, parts they want to keep. I’m from an immigrant family and I was presented with a number of cultural trappings that I could choose to (at the appropriate age) reject or embrace. If he is so enamoured with his PR heritage he could also choose to move his sorry ass there. He is making a much better living though here with his moany grevience schtick than he probably ever could in PR.

      1. For that matter, why is he writing in English? Isn’t that oppressing the Anglo-Saxon masses when their language is raped by non-Anglo writers sniveling at them?

        -jcr

    3. If you don’t like American culture and can’t figure how to avoid it, how about simply going somewhere else? I’m sure there are plenty of towns in Central America void of Gringo music, but you’ll probably have to earn a living.

    4. Fact of life: if you want to keep to your culture untainted, then stay in the country in which it originated.

      When you move to a new country, you may be able to stay ‘culturally pure,’ but your children and grandchildren will not; in two or three generations, they will be more American than Italian or Puerto RIcan, More German than Turkish, more whatever than whatever. It is unavoidable.

      Your culture is not an exhibit at a museum that no on gets to touch. Cultures mix; host cultures absorb immigrant ones. That’s not oppression, If I move to Puerto RIco, I wholly expect my grandchildren to speak spanish and listen to salsa music or whatever’s popular down there. Idiotically enough, if I complained about it, Mr. Rodriguez would doubtless call me racist for doing so.

    5. Well, what did your parents do?

    6. People need to rediscover the amazing power of the word NO.

  34. Since we all love a good music argument:

    John Williams is the most overrated movie composer EVER!

    (Seriously all his music is the fucking same. Though the Imperial march is cool!)

    Compare to Hans Zimmer: Gladiator, The Dark Knight, Inception then Interstellar. All different!

    1. Hans Zimmer is amazing, but if you listen to the whole Gladiator soundtrack, you’ll notice some motifs he recycles from ‘Pirates of the Carribean.”

      Then there’s James Horner, who actually plagiarized himself and others in some of his works, allegedly.

      I think I may like Ennio Morricone best though. Cinema Paradiso. All that need be said.

  35. I offer the following from Wikipedia:

    Frank Furedi, an emeritus Professor of Sociology at the University of Kent, described trigger warnings as a form of narcissism, with the concerns not really being about the content of a book or work of art but about individual students asserting their own importance.

    Professor Metin Basoglu, a psychologist internationally recognised for his trauma research said that “The media should actually ? quite the contrary? Instead of encouraging a culture of avoidance, they should be encouraging exposure. Most trauma survivors avoid situations that remind them of the experience. Avoidance means helplessness and helplessness means depression. That’s not good”.

    The farce of trigger warnings should be ended. Avoidance of difficult issues serves in no way to resolve those issues.

    Its helicopter parenting at this worst.

    1. “described trigger warnings as a form of narcissism, with the concerns not really being about the content of a book or work of art but about individual students asserting their own importance power to make you dance to their tune.”

      1. “described trigger warnings as a form of narcissism, with the concerns not really being about the content of a book or work of art but about individual students asserting their own importance power to make you dance to their tune.”

  36. It is ironic that someone could be “micro-aggressed” by the Beatles, considering how much they themselves did to change and diversify over their career, especially with George Harrison’s Eastern influences. I mean come on! “Tomorrow Never Knows”, anybody?

    1. You have violated my senses spewing those racist lyrics.

    2. Well, George is totally a shitlord for learning to play sitar and becoming hindu, obviously. Also for giving all that money to Hindu charities and shit.

      -jcr

      1. A concert for Bangladesh?

        What a culture-appropriating putz.

  37. Much ado about nothing. I mean, it’s not like Rodriguez’s friend was trying to convince him that chili has beans in it, or something serious like that.

  38. So if you don’t like The Beatles it’s because they represent the White oppression of the masses, but if some clown in the car next to you is blasting some Latino music and you don’t like it, you must be a racist. Does that pretty much sum it up, Snowflake?

    1. But wait, there’s more! If a white person likes latino music, or just some good old bossa nova, isn’t that cultural appropriation? So, we’re not supposed to be offended by someone not liking what we like, but we’re not supposed to like what other people like, either! I think we’re close to the old Catch-22, here.

      1. I think that’s the point of this way of thinking; it’s not to tell us “if you do this, you’re racist, so don’t do it.” It’s just “you’re racist no matter what you do; now give us free stuff and turn your back while we do something naughty as penance.”

      2. You all know that the standard line about rock and roll is that it was invented by the likes of Little Richard but really went nowhere until white entertainers like Elvis and Buddy Holly came along and appropriated it from Black America? i.e. it was unacceptable and labeled as “negro music” by the dominant culture oppressors but became acceptable once white guys were singing it.

        This has been considered in such fine fair as “The Patty Duke Show’ and even the short-lived but wonderfully funny, “Dinosaurs” cartoon show of the early 1990s.

        Which only makes me sad because it just isn’t that simple. Each “appropriation” added some element of it’s own and, the only progression is time as, the development is not linear but branches off in many directions over the time progression, spawning new and different sounds.

  39. So let me get this right.

    Rodriguez: “I don’t like the Beatles because I’m Puerto Rican, and the expectation that I like the Beatles is white racism.”

    Rodriguez again: “My friend doesn’t like salsa music or whatever because he’s white, and that’s racist, and he should have to like salsa music or whatever or else he’s ‘culturally illiterate.'”

    Did I get that right? Is internal consistency now a form of oppression imposed by the dominant cutlural heteropatriarchy?

    1. “Is internal consistency now a form of oppression imposed by the dominant cutlural heteropatriarchy?”

      They’re perfectly consistent.

      Whitey is da Devil!

  40. What, no article on Lemmy? While probably more an anarchist than libertarian, he is closer than a lot of musicians you’ve fawned over.

  41. Man, did I get that wrong! I thought Prof. Rodriguez was writing a brilliantly witty send-up of the whole “micro-aggression” shtick. My bad.

  42. Trigger warnings? We don’t need no stinkin trigger warnings, just do like movies and advertising – play background music! idiots abound

  43. Progressives are enamoured with the concept of stasis. Whether it’s culture, climate, or social status. Nothing ever changes, therefore the brave progressives must make it change, PROPERLY of course.

  44. The problem with people getting upset at things is that they are the people with the problem.

    Along with everyone else who has a problem to deal with, the upset person is the person who has to learn how to deal with the problem. This does NOT mean to pass the buck and expect others to solve your problems for you!

    Expecting other people to resolve YOUR problems for you inhibits you growing up and simply demonstrates your immaturity…

    1. ^^This^^

      People need to get over themselves.

      I want to punch that little UCSB coed in the face.

      And the military just removed barriers to women in combat. Just wait until little miss muffit like her, triggers in a kill or be killed battle.

      She sets women back 100 years with those comments!

  45. Women ruined the Beatles. Nick Gillespie ruined reason. He’s desperately PC even when he’s whining about PC.

  46. White Americans tolerate and even insist on maintaining godawful urban public schools because the mostly minority kids who go there don’t matter to them.

    Tolerate, well, hard to argue with, though this comes after decades of trying to fix them. Insist on? Do white Americans really insist on pouring tax money at private-school rates into terrible schools? Or do they watch helplessly what the teacher’s unions do with that money, including bankroll the party that gives them complete power to waste most of it?

    If Nick Gillespie thinks it appropriate (and pundit-credibility-building) to assign blame for these war-crime-vast sins of the NEA and Democrats to a “white Americans” scapegoat, then Rodriguez has nothing on him.

    1. “White Americans tolerate and even insist on maintaining godawful urban public schools because the mostly minority kids who go there don’t matter to them.”

      Those who support the teacher’s unions and their political enablers are the ones insisting on “maintaining godawful urban public schools”.

      Does that count as irrefutable evidence of their racism against minority kids, or do they get a pass because Proggies *always* get a pass?

  47. OMG!

    The end is near. ;-(

  48. If Rodriguez doesn’t like the fab four, then HE’s the cultural ignoramus who needs some remedial exposure to civilization.

    -jcr

  49. Note though that I do have a historical appreciation for the Beatles and Led Zeppelin and Andy Warhol and The Great Gatsby. This is because these are important cultural elements of the dominant culture within which I live. Oscar Hernandez, James Jamerson, and Hunger of Memory are not part of the dominant culture in the same ways.

    Adam J. Rodriguez dropped James Jamerson’s name because he figures white folks won’t know who the great bass player in Motown’s house band, the Funk Brothers, was. I live in the Detroit area. Motown was very much a part of the dominant culture in the 1960s and early 1970s.

    Anyhow, what’s a Puerto Rican doing appropriating music from Detroit?

    He dropped James Jamerson’s name, but I wonder if he knows the names of guitarist Steve Cropper and bass player Duck Dunn, two white guys who played on most of the great Stax soul hits.

    1. I wonder what the hell he thinks of Question Mark & The Mysterians? They would probably blow this mind.

    2. “…I do have a historical appreciation…”

      Nice way to appreciate music.

    3. if you havent, you should watch “standing in the shadows of motown”. they get the funk brothers back together in the early 2000s I think to play music and talk history. it’s cool, and theyre still tight as hell

  50. So when Whitey is a dick about the wonders of his favorite band, it’s now a hate crime.

    Well of course. When Whitey breathes, it’s a hate crime.

    1. My last pay check was $9500 working 12 hours a week online. My sisters friend has been averaging 15k for months now and she works about 20 hours a week. I can’t believe how easy it was once I tried it out. This is what I do..

      Clik This Link inYour Browser….

      ? ? ? ? http://www.WorkPost30.Com

  51. dr. david thorpe, as usual, nails it:
    “Critics of the Beatles generally fall into two categories: either they’re fifteen years old and trying to rise above their peers on the coolness ladder by iconoclastically bashing what they consider untouchable by criticism (the same kids who will later impress their friends by talking about what a hack Shakespeare was), or they’re humorless aficionados of jazz or classical who think of The Beatles as the four mop-topped horsemen of the apocalypse. Just because both of those types of people are retards, however, doesn’t mean that the Beatles aren’t shit. Yes, everyone knows that they started out as a fairly irritating pop band beloved by shrieking, frumpy teenage girls, but that actually isn’t why they suck. Things didn’t start getting really unbearable until John Lennon and George Harrison turned into pretentious, drug -addled proto-hippie cultists and Paul McCartney decided to start writing whimsical ditties. Ringo, of course, did not have to make any significant adjustments in order to suck. For every memorable “classic” Beatles song, there are five that are annoying novelty songs, four that are unbearably dated, three that are worthless R&B covers, two that are failed sonic experiments, and one that’s written by Ringo. If we wash all of those away from their dozen or so studio albums, we’re left with about half an album’s worth of decent material. “

    1. cont’d
      “We’ll throw in some mediocre old tracks, call it “One,” and it’ll move more copies than Kinko’s.”

Please to post comments

Comments are closed.