Donald Trump

Donald Trump and the Big Lie Stratagem

Forget the art of the deal, Trump practices the art of propaganda


Skier Scribbler

Today, the New York Times has a terrific editorial, "Mr. Trump's Applause Lies," decrying the shameful and stupid lies being peddled by Republcan presidential frontrunner and billioinaire reality television star Donald Trump. From the editorial:

America has just lived through another presidential campaign week dominated by Donald Trump's racist lies. Here's a partial list of false statements: The United States is about to take in 250,000 Syrian refugees; African-Americans are responsible for most white homicides; and during the 9/11 attacks, "thousands and thousands" of people in an unnamed "Arab" community in New Jersey "were cheering as that building was coming down."

In the Republican field, Mr. Trump has distinguished himself as fastest to dive to the bottom. If it's a lie too vile to utter aloud, count on Mr. Trump to say it, often. It wins him airtime, and retweets through the roof.

So far, so sadly true. Trump is using the "big lie" propaganda technique devised by the Nazis. Adolf Hitler* himself outlined in Mein Kampf how this works …

…the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

Trump is proving himself to be a fabricator of colossal untruths and an expert liar.

Perhaps Trump's most troubling recent political eructation cited by the Times is:

"We're going to have to do things that we never did before. And some people are going to be upset about it, but I think that now everybody is feeling that security is going to rule. And certain things will be done that we never thought would happen in this country in terms of information and learning about the enemy. And so we're going to have to do certain things that were frankly unthinkable a year ago."

The implications to American liberty of this man becoming president are frankly thinkable and frightening.

*Since this is beginning of the debate, this is not a contravention of Godwin's Law.

See Reason TV's excellent and disturbing video, "Dilbert Creator Scott Adams on Donald Trump's 'Linguistic Kill Shots'." Adams argues that Trump's rhetorical genius will take him all the way to the Oval Office.

NEXT: Chicago May See an Officer Charged with First-Degree Murder for First Time in 35 Years (Updated)

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  1. You know who else preempted everybody’s possible Hitler references?

    1. Godwin?

      1. Did Hitler also flipflop in favor or medical hemp and 21st Amendment federalism? Is that what the photos are about?

      1. WIn.

    2. Elvis Costello?

    3. Anton Drexler?

      1. Ever notice how Drexler was the spitting image of John Dewey?

        1. Whoa.

        2. John Dewey couldn’t dunk like that.

    4. The problem is most Hitler references are hyperbole. Trump, not so much…
      Trump is basically a Hitler who can’t paint.

      1. You know who else was a Hitler who couldn’t paint?

        1. Bernie?

          1. I think he’s more into pencil sketches.

            1. yeah who needs a hundred different colors of paint when there are people who can’t even afford pencils?

        2. Had to be said.

  2. I hate Trump with the fire of a thousand suns, however if the media had been this judicious and calculating in taking down all the candidates equally I would be willing to bet Trump wouldn’t exist as a candidate.

    1. I’m sure the NY Times will give the Paris global warming climate change conference equal scrutiny.

    2. You mean they’d point out that Shrill is a criminal?

    3. I hate Trump but the sad truth is Media is to blame: all their bullshit has created Trumpenstein.

  3. you know who else is kinda Hitlary?

    1. Steve Smith, but with less hair. Same size balls though.

      1. Oh….. I thought it said Hillary….. I guess those terms are fungible.

        1. Right! Hillary used not one, but two BIG LIES, the “Russia hacking” hoax, and the “Trump-Russia” collusion lies, and it worked better than could ever be imagined. The Democratic base been turned into hateful, violent xenophobes, programmed to blame the evil Russians for every ill in society, and to justify any act of violence against anyone wearing a MAGA hat, because they are “Nazi’s” and nothing short of death will stop them.

  4. You know who else Godwined his own articles?

  5. It’s no longer called the Big Lie.


    1. D: ^This made me laugh through my tears. Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving to all.

      1. Ron, I hope you have a very happy Thanksgiving. Thanks for ending our doom.

  6. Huh. That Adolf was on to something…

  7. Trump also tweeted this:

    “The concept of global warming was created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing non-competitive.”

    Everything is a conspiracy theory to him. You’re right…the concept of him becoming President is frightening.

    1. That’s not conspiracy theorizing; that’s Trump being crazy like a fox. You think he’s going to tell his biggest support block, the ‘hands-of-my-medicare!’ working class, that they are the primary factor that made US manufacturing non-competitive by squeezing blood from stones with incessant labor racketeering and agitation against free trade and movement of labor.?

      1. Oh man, HM, did you hear about how he said in the last debate that those exact people were going to have to accept lower wages if they wanted jobs? It was a weird moment.

        1. The thing I like about Trump’s campaign promises is that they are protean. In one city he says that we shouldn’t be involved a fight against ISIS, in another he states that we should bomb the shit out of them. These speeches were like 2 weeks of one another. Not even Obama’s empty rhetoric can match the reality of Trump being all things to all people.

          1. What trump seems to have figured out is that there’s too much information out there and no one listening anyway. Politicians went through a phase where they had to worry about everything they said and not contradict themselves and hold to a narrative or get called out. Trump simply overfills the meme-bucket until people overload and either just accept him or reject him without any real message or beliefs behind it. It was the Big Lie, but also telling it over and over. Now it’s as many Big Lies as you can think of told over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over. Keep it up until those levers get pulled and circles get filled in and chads get punched and maybe you come out ahead. Otherwise, go back to doing whatever he was doing before.

            1. exactly. who has the time (or interest) in actually following what his positions are? people either want to think he’s the embodiment of everything wrong with our country or that he’s gonna fix everything thats wrong with it. it’s so, so easy to find soundbites that support your pre formed conclusions, why bother actually paying attention to his history?. the idea of him being president is kinda gross, but at least it might force a more realistic view of the presidency on people.

          2. I suspect Trump has a top of the line polling organization, which he instructed to find out what lines will appeal to the most Republican primary voters. He’s running to win, not because he really believes we need a giant border wall.

      2. Nah, that’s a conspiracy theory, saying scientists the world over are in league to pull a fast one on Americans.

        1. That’s silly. We only need worry about Latverian scientists.

          1. But…but…haven’t we had the End of (Doctor) Doom?

            1. Only in this universe, not all of the multiverse.

              1. *slaps forehead*

                Oh, right! How forgetful of me.

                *wanders off to buy armload of comics*

        2. Go away. I think Bailey’s monthly Global Warming Update is due out in the next couple days.

          1. Here you go, don’t wait:

            “Data from NASA revealed that the combined average temperature over global land and ocean surfaces for October 2015 was the highest for October in the 136-year period of record, at 0.98?C (1.76?F) above the 20th century average of 14.0?C (57.1?F). Not only was last month the warmest October since 1880, it also achieved the greatest temperature difference than any other month in 136 years of archival data from NASA.”

            Of course, Trump thinks NASA is part of the conspiracy. Silly, eh?

            1. What happened in 1880?

              1. Gladstone defeated Disraeli to become PM of Britain.
                And Garfield beat Hancock to become President. That’s two, anyway.

            2. So you’re saying 2015 weather was some kind of anomaly, and we should expect a return to average temperatures next year.

    2. Yup. Makes Hillary look good by comparison, huh? I would not be surprised if that was the plan all along.

      As for the Chinese, they don’t need global warming to make their manufacturing more competitive. Cheap and in many cases virtual slave labor, lack of environmental regulations, monetary manipulation, and even outright fraud accomplishes that. Not to mention ignorant consumers who either don’t know or care about poor quality merchandise – only low price and does it look nice.

      1. virtual slave labor

        How is one a “virtual” slave? Either you have no liberty or you do.

        1. You are chained to a VR console?

        2. Even African slaves in the US had some liberties – depending on who ol’ massa was. Still slavery though as long as someone else has the final word.

          1. And even we tax cattle today have some liberties.

        3. Maybe they are playing what has to be the world’s worst video game.

  8. There is no significant difference between Trump Lanza and Lanza Hitler!

    1. What about Adolf Trump and Donald Hitler?

      1. What about Eddie Hitler?

        Christmas IS coming up, anyway.

        1. I thought it was Herbie Hitler… works at Office Depot?

  9. Instead, as Mr. Trump stays at the top of the Republican field, it’s become a full-time job just running down falsehoods like the phony crime statistics he tweeted, which came from a white supremacist group.

    Fake, but accurate. Rush told me so!

    1. I thought that was John.

      1. Oh, you’re right. Rush was reassuring me about the Jersey Arabs Cheer 9/11 story.

        1. It’s quite common to confuse Jersey Arabs with dancing Israelis.

          1. Those dancing Israelis got locked up for months and subjected to harsh interrogation. No chartered First Class flights home for them. Sucks being only “our second most important ally in the Middle East”.

            1. Ariel Sharon should have held Bush’s hand more during a morning’s constitutional.

          2. Jersey Arabs are Italian. Sheesh.

  10. The Donald is just the mirror image of the social justice cadres looking back at them.

    Seriously. The contempt for rule of law or limited government? The dismissal of objective reality. The magical thinking that if they just bully the right way, things will go the way they want. The disdain for traditional concepts of decency. They share the same premises. They just take them in opposite directions.

    The social justice cadres decided the rule of civility and honest discourse didn’t apply, that it was all just a power game with the “cis white hetero males” as the chosen enemy. Well, a lot of those “cis white hetero males” have accepted that premise. And The Donald promises to lead them back to the top of the stack.

    My guess? My guess is that one of two things are going to happen. Either all this shit is going to implode on itself or it will keep going along its merry way. And if it’s the latter, we’ll see, even as the academic landscape remains fully and totally in the hands of the social justice cadres, the broader political landscape becomes increasingly authoritarian conservative. Probably not Trump. Or even the next Trump. But, each time the Trump will be increasingly authoritarian in their approach. And eventually, if this keeps up, one will wind up in power. And the universities will be faced with everything they’ve accused their ideological targets of being having absolute power over them.

    Good luck with that.

    1. +1 Stones “You can’t always get what you want”

    2. So, either everything will be the same, or everything will be different? You risk taker you. Such insight is rare… 🙂

      1. I don’t think there’s any prediction of “the same”. In fact “the same” is what inevitably leads to an authoritarian regime.

        1. Easy tiger, I was just busting your balls, you know, for sport. But it WAS a little vague, don’t you think? Granted, I’m no Shakespeare, so you’ve ample opportunity to skewer me sooner or later.

    3. I think you are probably right bill.

  11. Good morning and fuck off everyone! 🙂 Man, I love my new meds.

    1. Ambien-meets-Zyprexa?

      1. No. Ritalin and Jagermeister.

        1. I was gonna say “a shitload of Cialis and MDMA.”

        2. Is that a new shot? – “The Alert Hunter”

          1. Wise guy, eh?

            /Bugs Bunny Voice.

        1. Damn you for posting that first!

    2. Flakka?

      1. And also damn you for getting that one in first!

        1. There’s still jenkem, Swiss.

          1. Jenkem?

            *whispers “thanks” to X*

  12. “If it’s a lie too vile to utter aloud, count on Mr. Trump to say it, often. It wins him airtime, and retweets through the roof.”

    I would only add that, “It wins him [free] airtime, and retweets through the roof”.

    That isn’t Adolf Hitler. That’s Howard Stern.

    Trump drops out of the race when he starts having to spend his own money. And as long as everybody keeps giving him free airtime for saying the stupidest shit he can think up, he’ll never have to spend his own money.

    The establishment Republican donors aren’t about to give him anything. The grass roots Republicans aren’t about to make small donations to a billionaire.

    Trump isn’t Hitler. Trump isn’t your dad. Trump is Howard Stern, and he should be laughed at like Fartman. …not taken seriously.

    1. I doubt Trump’s own supporters take him as seriously as journalists do.

      His supporters are the kind of people who sing along to “America, Fuck Yeah!” with feeling like they mean it–even though they know the song is making fun of them.

      1. At least Stern had the good sense to run as a Libertarian.

        1. What a mess that was.

          1. Harmless compared to Barr.

    2. I think you have it there. ‘It wins him [free] airtime’, see Reason for copious examples. It’s a double win for Trump as it also crowds everyone else out. I wouldn’t be surprised if his campaign is showing a profit at the moment.

      1. He would drop out of the race if he couldn’t get free coverage.

        And, like I was saying yesterday, there are plenty of things to talk about him–that don’t effectively amount to carrying water for the Trump campaign.

        Write about his mob ties.

        Write about how little of his own money he’s spending and why.

        Write about how his negatives in the polls–among registered Republicans–are twice as high as his support among registered Republicans.

        I know for a fact that Bailey would turn Trump down if he offered to pay Bailey to write stuff like this.

        Why do it for free?

        The people who like Trump like him for the same reason that people who like Stern (Trump’s buddy) like Stern. He’s irreverent, and at a time when the world is awash in PC and safe spaces, Trump defies all of that by saying the most obnoxious shit he can. The only difference is that Stern did it to make people laugh.

        Trump is just doing it for the attention. He likes being in the news. If he really wants to be President, it’s because the President is always in the news.

    3. Amen to this!

    4. Not to get too prickly, but not very many people took Ol’ Adolf all that seriously either. He was regarded as overbaked and a demagogue, just another guy to get his six month shot at the Chancellorship that was the revolving door at the end of the Weimer era. He was to be installed to placate the rabble who followed him until the Von Papens and the Schliechers and the all the rest got their shots (or second shots?). The fools that make up governments had no idea who they were contending with. Is this apples to apples? Not really. We don’t have kampfbunds etc, but let’s not make out like people thought Hitler was some great statesman for the reason he got his shot. Hindenburg was senile, and Oskar held sway. In short, Hitler got in due to the vacuum that was present in the position and was supposed to be a place holder until all the intriguers could recharge. He wasn’t supposed to last long because he was a demagogic joke.

      Oh well.

      1. You know who else people didn’t take seriously as a politician?

  13. “. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. “

    Nonsense. This is just typical elitist NYT Rousseauean-argumentation that the mass of people are “stupid, naive and generous”….rather than just as smart as the hacks at the Times, and just as prone to believing shit they want to believe when it is politically convenient.

    One could probably run out of fingers and toes counting the number of instances you’d find the same willful gullibility in the pages of the NYT so long as the story is consistent with their own preferred narratives. They want to pretend that somehow the Trump-believers are fundamentally different from themselves when the reality is that they are MORE like the typical liberal-progressive than unlike them.

    1. “One could probably run out of fingers and toes counting the number of instances you’d find the same willful gullibility in the pages of the NYT so long as the story is consistent with their own preferred narratives.”

      This is right on target and for the most part applies to everyone.

      Confirmation bias

      That the NYT probably doesn’t believe it applies to them is, aptly enough, a fairly good example of it.

    2. This is just typical elitist NYT Rousseauean-argumentation

      Or, you know, it could be a passage from Mein Kampf. Whichever.

      1. “Mein Kampf” accused the general public of being stupid and gullible?

        I only ever read excerpts. I had already seen the movie and knew how it ended.

        1. Well be sure to SPOILER ALERT, as I have not read that or seen the movie!

          1. I think it was Ben Afflecks best work

        2. The passage you quoted was an excerpt from Mein Kampf, not from the NYT editorial.

          1. You totally ruin the whole commenting thing by actually reading the article.

            1. the NYT article was behind a paywall, and I assumed they were quoting MK to characterize Der Trumpenspeil

  14. ‘The implications to American liberty of this man becoming president are frankly thinkable and frightening.’
    Whereas the implications for Hillary becoming president are thinkable and consoling?

    1. Exactly.

      Business don’t create jobs! It was a spontaneous protest!! I have no idea how email works. I never saw any classified information. Trump is a serial liar!

      1. or…….You can keep you plan. You can keep your doctor. Your rates are going to go down. I’m going to close Guantanamo.

        Someone pointed out in a prior thread. Why is everyone bitching about Trump’s obvious lies when the past two election cycles.

        1. * given the last two election cycles.

    2. Bailey has a history of voting for Democrats.

    3. Hey, her daughter was jogging around d the WTC when the planes hit the towers. Don’t talk shit about her!

      1. Her daughter was dodging WTC debris, just like Shrillary was dodging sniper fire in Bosnia, you rat fucking bagger!

    4. That’s some top-notch deductive logic right there.

    5. Congratulations, you’ve successfully decoded Ron’s secret meaning. Any criticism of Team Red is an explicit endorsement of Team Blue!

      1. Ron has a history of explicitly endorsing Team Blue. REMEMBER 2008

        1. You read it here folks, one example now officially = “a history”. So sayeth the SIV.

          1. Actually, it is.

            I’m not sorry for shitting in your safe space either, snowflake

            1. snowflake

              This coming from an over-sensitive TRUMPTARD… that’s hilarious.

              1. How can he be the biggest whiner if you are the biggest whiner, Loki? Huh? GOTCHA!

              2. TRUMP ? HITLER is microagressing against you, snowflake? Take you SSRI and deal with it.

                1. So, I took issue with your characterization of Ron having a “history of explicitly endorsing Team Blue” based on a single link from 2008, wherein he states, in plain English that he’s voting for Obama that year to “punish Republicans” – which certainly isn’t much of a history (I’ll even grant you that ONE INSTANCE can be counted as “a history,” just not a long one) or a particularly ringing endorsement of Team Blue in general or Obama in particular – and now I’m a “snowflake” who’s feeling “microagressed” because “TRUMP ? HITLER”? This coming from a poster who feels compelled to scream and stomp his feet about COSMOS!111!!! and TEAM BLUE SHILLZ every time an article critical of your man crush is posted? Project much?!

                  You might be the most retarded motherfucker who posts here. Seriously, you make Tony and PB look like geniuses.

                  1. You might be the most retarded motherfucker who posts here.

                    Hey, now. Acosmist is still in the running.

                    1. Acosmist is still in the running.

                      The proto-Winston.

        2. All: While we’re remembering, let’s not forget 2012. Just saying.

          1. Which presidential candidate are you voting for and why? Gary Johnson. This dispiriting and especially mendacious presidential race has sorely tempted me to take [my colleague’s] Katherine Mangu-Ward’s advice and not bother voting at all. However, as I explained in 2008, I voted for Obama to punish the Republicans. I expected Obama to be a disappointment, but not THIS big a disappointment. The GOP has clearly not yet learned to value both economic and social liberty, so Romney and Ryan won’t get my vote.

          1. Ron, you’re a good egg, but “I voted for Obama to punish the Republicans” was the stupidest reason to vote for Obama outside of “Obama is a Bodhisattva who will lead the world into the Age of Aquarius“.

              1. Aqua Buddha, Aqualung: Who’s counting?

              2. No, Aqua Velva

            1. Oh hush now. There were plenty of stupider reasons.

          2. Ron, please don’t spoil SIV’s facile theory by pointing out that it’s possible to disdain both Teams and reminding us that you in fact did that thing.

            1. it’s possible to disdain both Teams

              Hogwash! You must pick one TEAM or the other. Actually scratch that, you must the same TEAM as me! /TEAMtard

            2. I’ve never voted for either major party’s nominee in a general election. Bailey voted for W twice and Obama once. Thank him for putting his meaningless endorsement on the past 15 years of shit presidents.

              1. Who would you vote for in a corporal election?

              2. Bitch he voted for Gary Johnson.

              3. S: So now you reveal that I have a “history” of voting for Republicans, Democrats, and Libertarians from time to time.

                1. So now you reveal that I have a “history” of voting for Republicans, Democrats, and Libertarians from time to time.

                  You flop worse than a GMO salmon.

                  1. IP: A pike calling salmon a flip flopper?

                    1. IP: A pike calling salmon a flip flopper?

                      That is actually where I got the last name for my nom de blog.

                2. I think having voted for one of everything is the sign of a cosmopolitan voter.

                  I think this year I’ve cycled my way back to third parties…

                  but can’t quite decide between current-leader, Vermin Supreme (who recommends giving an Organ for Christmas this year! – no, not Wurlitzer… like a Liver or a Kidney) …. or trying to pick the Libertarian candidate with the best-competing Hat

                3. And advocating for compulsory medical treatment, new taxes and a bunch of other statist shit.

                4. Don’t you realize politics is a team sport?! Pick one TEAM and stick with it, you COCKTAIL DRINKING COZMO!!!11!!! Seriously, why don’t you jump on the team and come on in for the big win?

                  1. Some of us think for ourselves.I realize you might find it othering but we can’t all be TEAM players like Loki.

    6. False dichotomy.

  15. What’should with the Hitler pants shitting?

    1. What’s with the Hitler pants shitting?

      1. You know who else shat Hitler’s pants?

        1. Hitler Pants: For the Discriminating Totalitarian Man”

          1. Not to mention the mannish totalitarian woman on the go.

        2. Eva Braun?

    2. It’s not pants-shitting when they do it.

      The rest of us see the Donald as what he is: an unserious, opportunistic blowhard.

      1. I won’t vote for him and don’t wish to hear about him, or from him…. it has been a long few months.

    1. I own 2 dress shirts from the Donald’s collection. They’re not bad for off-the-shelf workhorse shirts. Of course, I bought them at a discount; they’re not worth full price.

      1. You’re kidding. Do they actually say “Donald” on the label?

        I bet like most textile stuff in the US, all the dress shirts from Brooks Brothers and everyone else are made in like the same 4 factories overseas, and its just a matter of who orders what slight variation of fabric and pattern.

        1. The label…which is, you guessed it, “uge”, is black with “Donald J. Trump Collection” in gold stitching. And you’re probably right about the factories.

        2. You mean The Donald isn’t using ‘Mericun labor?!?!? He’s using filthy foreigner terrorists to make his shirts, when good ol’ white ‘Mericuns could be doing it?!?!?!?!

          1. Oh for the halcyon days of, “Made In The USA!” Of course, the USA meant a sweatshop in the Marianas, but still.

            One of the most brilliantly cynical marketing campaigns ever.

  16. When I think about Big Lies, the first thing that comes to mind is climate “science.”

    1. Bailey is a shill for Big Climate. When he isn’t too busy advocating for compulsory medical treatment.

  17. Trump is no more or less honest than Hillary Clinton. He’s a vile creature that fabricates and lies to further his agenda.

    The difference between the two is Trump’s agenda is to stay in the race until it enriches him considerably and then pull out. Hillary Clinton wants to rule the fucking world.

    1. I always figured Trump was a shill for Hillary who’s going to try to get the nomination, then bail out, throwing the Stupid Party into shambles. Then Hillary walks over the finish line.

      1. This doesn’t ring plausible. Why wouldn’t Donald Trump want to be the President of the United States?

        1. To be honest, I don’t understand why anyone would want that job.

        2. Because he’s a greedy entertainer that wants to be rich and doesn’t want to be saddled with oversight or others (legislative and judicial) having as much power as he does.

          What, do you think he’s some kind of megalomaniac that would slander others who his/her spouse had possibly raped while supposedly championing all accusers as victims later in life? Or the kind of person that would deliberately conceal information they were legally obligated to maintain for oversight? Or use their position of power to peddle influence to the highest bidder? Or make light of the deaths of Americans under her authority while destroying the 1A rights of another American to prot ft her political career in the aftermath?

          That’s why he doesn’t really want to be president.

        3. I liked the CT that the whole campaign from the Donald was one, a publicity stunt, and two, to get back at Jeb! for shitcanning Trump’s casino bid in Florida.

          The entire campaign as some Brewster’s Millions-esque combination political campaign stunt and “Fuck You!” to Jeb! and anyone dumb enough to take Trump at face value is brilliant. It’s the best piece of performance art in quite awhile, only to be exceeded by the hilarity if we actually elect the guy.

          I guess the Ruled Class is more pissed off than any pundit had thought.

      2. This.

        And the number of Republicans falling for it is appalling.

      3. The Stupid Party is already in shambles. I’ve tried to think of what policies are associated with Republicans. When Reagan was president, it was 1) Destroy the Soviet union, 2) Fight Communism, 3) Lower taxes, 4) Reduce government. Now whether he did any of these isn’t the point. My point is that these were idea that he at least did a good enough job of articulating and communicating these that at least it seemed like these were his policies.

        I have no idea what the current version of the Stupid Party stands for. Nothing accept they are against what ever it is the Democrats are for. If before you can define yourself, you have to define you opposition, that tells me you a fucking utter failure as a political party.

      4. That matches my general take. Either a replay of Ross Perot (so the LP can be safely ignored) or else a disposable trial balloon on repeal of marijuana prohibition (again, so the LP platform marijuana plank effect is unmentioned, even by Reason).

    2. You know who else wanted to rule the world?

      1. Everybody?

        1. *Tears up and experiences fear*

    3. I think a difference is that Hillary is a much more polished politician. She has managed to be the front runner without saying anything of substance. I’ve yet to hear any major policy initiatives of hers other than the typical tax the rich.

      1. “I think a difference is that Hillary is a much more polished politician.”

        I’m not sure if this is praise, or if it is you saying, look at this collection of turds, I think that one is the most attractive.

        I’m going to give you the benefit of the doubt and go with option #2.

        1. She is the lesser revolting. She does a better job of keeping out of the news with hyperbolic bullshit. I could be wrong because I don’t watch television or cable.

  18. The implications to American liberty of this man becoming president are frankly thinkable and frightening.

    Meh. Both front runners are pretty scary as far as liberty goes.

    1. No matter who wins, we lose.

    2. You know who else was pretty scary as far as liberty goes?

      1. John Wayne?

      2. Rebecca Lobo?

        1. That’s pretty good.

      3. Jimmy Stewart?

      4. Zed and “The Spider”?

      5. Palpatine?

      6. Woodrow Wilson?

  19. Trump is sort of a cross between the Clintons and Howard Stern.

    Like Stern used to do, he says crazy outrageous things, then basks in the attention it draws. Never apologizing or correcting himself. All publicity is good publicity.

    Like the Clintons, he lies and exaggerates so often it probably isn’t even a conscious decision any longer. And like them, the pace is too much for the media to keep up with. Why bother digging into a false allegation from two weeks ago when s/he has told 3 more giant whoppers since then?

    1. Well at least Hillary isn’t promising to round people up and put them in camps. If I have to choose between a center-left establishment hack and an insane fascist clown, um, I’ll pick the establishment hack and live it.

      1. No. She’s promising to take away your guns and give away all kinds of free shit without raising taxes.

        1. Which is preferable to establishing a registry for all Muslims.

          1. establishing a registry for all Muslims.

            Of course, Trump never proposed that. He said he would consider all sorts of lists.

            But keep drinking the lies the MSM puts out.

            1. When asked about it he said that there should be a lot of systems. When asked whether he would implement it he said yes. Sorry this is not Trump being quotemined, it’s the plain meaning of his words, in context. Sorry there are no pictures.

        2. Which is preferable to establishing a registry for all Muslims.

      2. As I’ve said before, that might just be the plan.

      3. But Hillary is a liar, so that means she will round up people and put them in camps.

    2. By all accounts, Stern is a quiet homebody in his real life.

      I’m not convinced the Donald persona is a schtick, like Stern’s obviously is.

  20. I’m going to really enjoy this election.

    *Cracks open beer, puts up feet*

  21. Where’s John? It wouldn’t be a Trump thread without one or two “libertarian” Republicans showing up to explain to us all how Trump isn’t so bad, and even though they don’t really support him, we should all vote for him anyway if he gets x the nomination.
    Frankly, I am less scared of Hillary Clinton. At least we can depend on her to be predictably corrupt.

    1. I’m pretty sure Trump would be predictably corrupt too. Neither seems a good choice to carry the nuclear football around.

      1. I don’t think anything about Trump is predictable. Also he’s peddling fascism, and she’s peddling more of the same. I’ll take more of the same over fascism thanks. Heck if if she’s elected the TPP stand s a better chance of passing , so that alone should make her preferable.

        1. We get it, you like Hillary.

          1. There’s a lot more where he came from.

          2. She’ll vote with her vag, it seems, since both are fascists. Hillary is worse because she is a proven criminal who has sold herself to outside interests. Trump at least is his own man – a wild man, but not a puppet.

        2. Hate to say it, but more of the same is fascism. We’re sure as hell not a free nation anymore, that ship has sailed.

          That said, fuck them both with rusty chainsaws.

          1. Yup. This .^^^ Both statements.

      2. When someone has given bribes for decades I think we can assume he will take them.

    2. Predictably corrupt = unpredictable. You have no idea who the highest bidder is going to be.

      1. I’m pretty sure it’s going to be one of that same bidders of the last 8 years.

      2. Well whoever the highest bidder is, is probably going to be a business man. And you make a lot of dough if all your customers are in concentration camps, unless, of course, your (fuck, sorry Nikki) you’re in the business of building concentration camps.)

    3. ” even though they don’t really support him, we should all vote for him anyway if he gets x the nomination.”

      while i don’t dispute your characterization of the indignant way the usual suspects rush to defend the Trump from the merciless onslaught of Hit-y-Run aghastness…

      …i really can’t recall a single instance of anyone actually suggesting that they’d VOTE for the guy. or exhorting anyone else to do so for the good of the country.

      At best, i think the Trump defenders insist that he’s somehow providing a valuable contribution to the National Discourse by saying stuff no one else will say, and Sticking it To The Man, providing more-visceral political engagement while everyone else tries to master the formula of “Be bland enough to avoid offending anyone”

      1. You really think that if Trump wins the nomination, that John won’t be on here shilling for him? All of this is just prep work to try to render v him palatable to libertarians in the event he actually does get nominated.

        1. “You really think that if Trump wins the nomination, that John won’t be on here shilling for him? “

          Maybe i just prefer to base my judgement on observed past behavior rather than future predictions.

          You’re probably right, but it doesn’t change my point that (at least to my recollection) no one has ever suggested that voting for Trump was a good idea.

        2. If he manages to get nominated, he probably won’t need libertarians in order win; no one else ever does.

          1. *shudders, begins sobbing*

            Nobody needs us…. 🙁

      2. I’m not going to ding you because he posted at the same time you did:

        Napoleon Bonaparte|11.24.15 @ 12:57PM|#|?|filternamelinkcustom

        At least Europe survived the fascists. Whether it survives the Enlightened Cosmopolitans isn’t nearly as certain.

        Go Trump!

        And the constant crying of “But Hillary is worse” is an endorsement to vote for Trump if they are head-to-head.

        1. “I’m not going to ding you “

          “Ding”? Is that german for something….unpleasant?

          I don’t see how Napoleon’s remark has anything to do with my point. People (some might say, “Retarded people”) cheerlead Trump because they like the cut of his jib and his relentless goading… but again = i can’t recall a single instance anyone ever made an argument appealing to other people to vote for him, arguing for his superiority to all other potential candidates, insisting that he presents the best of all possible choices and should be The Libertarian’s Choice, etc.

          Going “Yay!” doesn’t quite amount to more than, “Yay!”.

        2. ‘”The constant crying of “But Hillary is worse” is an endorsement to vote for Trump if they are head-to-head.”

          Aren’t you the same person who argued that declaring Ben Carson unacceptable isn’t in any way an endorsement of Hillary because Not Voting is the only proper choice of all cool-kids everywhere?

          If the Not Voting is the right choice …then what exactly is your personal concern with what other people’s comparative arguments are? its all just so much color-commentary on a horse race one isn’t betting on.

          1. You are mistaking me for Episiarch.

            1. sorry if so.

            2. So…you will be challenging him to a duel then, yes?

    4. Two more or less related comments:

      1 Assuming Donald vs. Hilary I really do fear for our country. If Trump does half the things he’s promising this will no longer be a country worth living in. Just the idea of a ‘registry’ of Muslims. Might as well make them wear yellow crescents. And my having to wear a Jewish star won’t be far behind. But Clinton takes all of this SJW crap seriously, and we’ll all be policing ‘microaggressions’ at work and signing ‘positive assent’ pledges before sex.

      2 I don’t think Trump is lying. I think he actually believes this shit. My wife and I got stuck next to a couple at a restaurant in the Detroit area last night who were (very) loudly declaiming much of the stuff Trump has been spouting. I don’t think they were lying for our sake–they were just having a meeting of the minds (I think it was a date…)
      Not that this helps…

      1. Clinton does not take the sjw crap seriously. She’s cynical, but she’s not an idiot. Also it is not of her v generation. She’s an old school democrat with connections and obligations that bind her to the status quo.

        1. Clinton does not take the sjw crap seriously.


          She’s cynical, but she’s not an idiot.


          She’s an old school democrat with connections and obligations that bind her to the status quo.

      2. Ppolicing ‘microaggressions’ is insufficiently inclusive. We need to go after femtoaggressions at the very least.

        1. I like the way that turned out.

      3. 1. I already fear for this country. A republic of limited, enumerated powers….that’s history. We are no longer a nation of laws, but of men. The Constitution I swore to defend is mocked as an anachronistic dead letter. When agents of the state openly violate the rights of it citizens with alacrity (read: Police One), and those said citizens have no recourse to the law for those violations, your government is no longer legitimate.

        2. Whether Trump believes his own line of shit is something I think on he can truly know. We will have to elect him in order to find out. (This is not an endorsement of Trump).

      4. Detroit, is searching out libertarian language experts…

  22. Who made who?

    1. Who made you?

        1. That would make you brothers. Is that what you wanted?

    2. Evil: What sort of Supreme Being created such riffraff? Is this not the workings of a complete incompetent?
      Baxi Brazilia III: But He created you, Evil One.
      Evil: What did you say?
      Baxi Brazilia III: Well He created you, so He can’t be entirely…
      Evil: [Blows Baxi to bits] Never talk to me like that again! No one created me! I am Evil. Evil existed long before good. I made myself. I cannot be unmade. *I* am all powerful!

      1. ^ One of my favorite movies scenes of all time. =)

  23. Someone should do a Downfall video where Hitler is angry at Bailey about the Trump comparison.

    1. “Dalmia, Gillespie, Loder and Welch…..everyone else…out!”

  24. At least Europe survived the fascists. Whether it survives the Enlightened Cosmopolitans isn’t nearly as certain.

    Go Trump!

    1. If you’re using the cockroach definition of survival, then there’s nothing to be worried about. At least one person with some vague connection to being “European” will still be alive, and apparently that’s good enough.

  25. What is the lay of the lie?

    Or conversely.

    What is the lie of the lay.

    1. When I think of all the worries
      That Reason seems to find
      And how they’re in a hurry
      To complicate their minds
      By chasing after the Moment
      And dreams that can’t come true
      I’m glad that we are different
      We’ve better things to do
      May others plan their future
      I’m busy vetting you

      One, two, three, four
      Sha-la-la-la-la-la, vote for today
      (Hey, hey, hey)
      Sha-la-la-la-la-la, vote for today
      And don’t worry ’bout tomorrow, hey
      Sha-la-la-la-la-la, vote for today
      Vote for today

      1. You use your tongue better than $20.00 whore.

        1. Well, I don’t want to brag, but my mind is a raging torrent, flooded with rivulets of thought cascading into a waterfall of creative alternatives.

          1. Ditto

  26. The implications to American liberty of this man becoming president are frankly thinkable and frightening.

    He ain’t gonna be president.

    But if I put my Seattle Times editorial hat on, I would say that the American Government NEEDS a populist voice! Oh wait, WRONG populist voice! We mean more Bernie Sanders-ey!

  27. I voted for Obama to punish the Republicans.


  28. Safe space? There is no safe space. It is pretty nearly a perfect vacuum.

  29. To be honest, I don’t understand why anyone would want that job.

    Who ever is going to appoint a Porn Czar, that is who I am voting for.

    1. I think that is a plank in the Almanian/Cthulhu ticket’s platform.

  30. I love how the media both left and right now find politicians lying to be a big deal. I don’t recall Ron writing with any concern in 2008 when Obama was building a cult of personality.

    This article is pretty dead on. The problem is that it is at least 10 years too late. People like Bailey, though he is hardly the worst offender, sat around and did nothing when Obama was lying his ass off to get elected twice now can’t expect anyone to care when they start screaming that Trump is lying. I am pretty sure his supporters know he is lying and support him more for doing it. Tump is nothing but the inevitable right wing reaction to Obama. The media thinks lying and propaganda and building a cult of personality is so fabulous, well lets see how they like it when their political enemies do it.

    1. Re: John,

      I don’t recall Ron writing with any concern in 2008 when Obama was building a cult of personality.

      The Earth was on the verge of runaway global warming then, don’t you remember? Temperature anomalies and all that.

      The media thinks lying and propaganda and building a cult of personality is so fabulous, well lets see how they like it when their political enemies do it.

      The former CBS News producer Bernie Goldberg talked about that very issue when he was promoting his book A Slobbering Love Affair: The True (And Pathetic) Story of the Torrid Romance Between Barack Obama and the Mainstream Media in CSPAN’s Book TV. He warned that an even worse demagogue would come to the stage which could then successfully defend himself of any scrutiny by the media and by then it would be too late for the media to regain the trust because it was so much in bed with candidate (and afterwards president-elect) Obama that anybody could call the MSM Obama’s second wife.

      1. That is exactly what is happening. And it is not just the left wing media. it is the right wing media. The people at National Review are having kittens about how Trump isn’t a “real conservative”. Jonah Goldberg is writting about how if supporting Trump is what it means to be a Republican he is just going to be in the wilderness for a while. Tough shit Jonah. If you wanted anyone to believe you or care what you think, maybe you should have thought about that when you were out telling us how Romney was a real conservative and was going to take on Obama or when you were gleefully joining in on the beat down of Sarah Palin for having the nerve to be “one of those people” and think she could be in national politics.

    2. It’s amazing how these things seem to sort themselves out if you posit that FOX News and its media allies are doing most of the lying.

      1. Yeah, things always seem to work out when you are delusional moron. While I can’t recommend being a delusional moron, it does have that going for it.

        Seriously Tony, what color is the sky in your world? You actually wake up every day and think Fox News is doing all of the lying. How the hell can we put a man on the moon and not have any treatment or meds for people like you?

        1. Trump can be a lying demagogue without it having anything to do with Obama, you know.

          1. Sure he is Tony. But that is not the problem. The problem is you honestly think Obama isn’t. And the fact that we can’t seem to come up with any kind of help for people in your condition is a national shame.

            1. What lies are you referring to, specifically?

              1. LOL. There is a 1500 character limit on here Tony. Maybe I just expect too much of modern medicine.

                1. So give me a couple.

                  1. Here

                    And bear in mind that by Politifact’s standards, truthiness is close enough to honesty.

  31. I think Troy and Bill above described it best. The progs with Obama have finally gotten to the right to just no longer give a fuck and want their own guy who is as lawless and authoritarian as Obama. Trump would be every bit as lawless as Obama or Hillary and would use the powers of government to stick it to the entire left. That is as much as anything why his supporters like him. It is not about positions on issues. It is mostly about revenge.

    1. Which is going to turn out so well for everyone…

      Which is not to say I don’t understand the impulsive desire of some on the right to “get even” with the prog-tard left, but still. This isn’t going to end well for any of us.

      1. It is going to turn out lousy. I am not saying it is a good thing. Trump would be no worse than Obama or Hillary. So, I am pretty ambivalent about his winning the Presidency. The only thing that gives me a bit of a soft spot for Trump is that while the country at large deserves better, the people in Washington, politicians and media alike, so deserve Trump being president. The amount of butt hurt and misery he would inflict on those assholes would be wonderful. Even though rationally I know Trump would be bad for the country, part of me can’t help but just want to see those people suffer and get what they deserve for sticking the country with Obama.

        1. I agree with you John. Let’s punish everyone with the totalitarianism that they vote for, and that they rightfully deserve. =)

  32. “I am voting for Trump to punish the Democrats.”

    1. *quietly investigates assignment to home office in CH*

    2. From 2005 until the elections in 2008, reason published a “vote Democrat to punish the Republicans” article about once a week. Curiously, after November of 2008, the “vote to punish the party in power” articles ceased. Reason somehow decided voting to punish incumbents wasn’t so hot after all and has to my knowledge never once published a “vote Republican to punish the Democrats article”. Funny that.

      1. Eh, I would rather seem them publish opinion pieces on how “voting X to punish Y is a bad idea” with ample mea culpa and “look how wrong we were”.

        1. I could respect that. But you will never see such a thing. In fact, if the Republicans retake the White House next year, they are likely to rediscover the virtues of voting to punish the party in power. You watch.

          1. It would be funnier than watching a dog chase its tail if there wasn’t so much at stake.

            1. Who do I vote for to punish everyone ?

              Asking for a friend.

              1. Bernie or Hillary… but only if your friend is a productive member of the society, because Everyone Will suffer as a result…

                If they’re a leech, they’ll be voting for Bern or Hill anyway….

  33. This thread just makes me want to buy another couple of guns and more ammo.

  34. Ron:

    Quick questions: Hillary or Trump? Who would you choose?

    1. Hemlock…..
      Oh, wait.. That’s my response to Hillary or Carly…. or Bernie and Carly….
      My bad.

      Trump, of course! I prefer ANY candidate who’s actually run ANY kind of business… or businesses successfully.
      I believe NONE of the other candidates on either side can claim that.

  35. Today, the New York Times has a terrific editorial, “Mr. Obama’s Applause Lies,” decrying the shameful and stupid lies being peddled by Democrat president Barack Hussein Obama.

    “If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor”
    “The ACA will save the average family $2500”
    “We will close Gitmo within a year”
    “No ground troops in Syria”

    1. ” not even a smidgen of corruption”

  36. the New York Times…….ENOUGH SAID

  37. I am no Trump fan but I would love to see who those making comments are going to vote for!!

    1. VERMIN SUPREME 2016 !!!!!

  38. This is a crock of Shit. Trump is the truth and will make a great President.,

    1. “Trump is the truth.”

      I will accept this when i see Trump dunk over Paul Pierce.

  39. In the Republican field, Mr. Trump has distinguished himself as fastest to dive to the bottom.

    But compared to a political class which still argues 1 in 4 college women are sexually assaulted and women earn 77 cents on the dollar for the same work he’s got a long way to go to catch up to the left.

  40. So, grand epiphany… NYT doesn’t like Trump…. fancy that!
    And uber-liberal Scott Adams doesn’t like him, either… if you get his cartoons by subscription, as I do, he’s morphed into a liberal blogger who’s as immune to feedback or critique (or disagreement) as any other lib.

    It’s like all the other shit going down… when the voting public looks to cartoon and comic illustrators for ‘political commentary’ it’s about as useful as political ‘wisdom’ spewing from the mouths of Hollywood ‘talent.’

    If the NYT thinks Trump lies, MAYBE someone should do a brief critique of some of the shit that flows from Hillary or Bernie…. now, THAT stuff is REALLY scary… unless you have NO knowledge or experience of what really motivates humans to succeed and produce.

    But the Dilberts are spot-on. When they first appeared, just about EVERYONE in Silicon Valley was SURE that Adams was an employee at their own company!

    Enjoy, but maintain skepticism…

    1. Oh, wait.. I almost forgot… If the NYT shuts down Trump, could the please also shut down one of their other Liars…Krugman? Talk about a fountain of bullshit…

  41. I just got paid $6784 working off my laptop this month. And if you think that’s cool, my divorced friend has twin toddlers and made over $9k her first month. It feels so good making so much money when other people have to work for so much less. This is what I do,


  42. I just got paid $6784 working off my laptop this month. And if you think that’s cool, my divorced friend has twin toddlers and made over $9k her first month. It feels so good making so much money when other people have to work for so much less. This is what I do,


  43. I just got paid $6784 working off my laptop this month. And if you think that’s cool, my divorced friend has twin toddlers and made over $9k her first month. It feels so good making so much money when other people have to work for so much less. This is what I do,


  44. Donald Trump is not lying about your cheering Arab heroes. The pali savages in Patterson, New Jersey cheered the collapse of the WTC towers as Debbie Schlussel explains: Patterson New Jersey Muslims celebrated as towers were coming down

  45. Amazing. Trump Perot finally broke ranks with the Grand Old Prohibitionists and moved closer to the LP platform by endorsing legal medical hemp and repeal of federal pot prohibition through the mechanism of the 21st Amendment. Then Reason Magazine censored all mention of the fact from its articles. Instead, what was a libertarian magazine before Jimmy Carter appeared on SNL now turns its boiling wrath on the least obnoxious and most libertarian of all the GOP candidates, ignoring his shift on one of the touchstone issues of self-ownership and individual rights. The whole point of an LP is to lever these looter prohibitionists away from fascism by using platforms, elections and spoiler votes! Soooo… um… is this by any chance another gag order from the DemoGOP court system?

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