This Underage Teen Lied About Her Age. Should We Lock Up Her Gullible Boyfriend?

29-year-old Kyle Cross says he accidentally bedded a 14-year-old runaway.

KCRG

Kyle Cross, 29, a former police officer, met a young woman, 19, online. They chatted for two weeks—she told him she was in college studying criminal justice—and then enjoyed a fantastic weekend of shopping, dining, and, eventually, sex.

Now Cross is facing two charges of third degree sexual abuse in his town of Dubuque, Iowa, because the girl was actually a runaway 14-year-old. As KCRG explains:

Cross told some friends about his weekend with who he thought was his new girlfriend.

"My friend was like, 'Is this the name that you said, who she is?' And I am like 'Yeah' and he was like, 'Well she's a missing juvenile.' And my heart just sank," Cross said.

After that exchange, Cross said he immediately told police where they could find her. She was staying at his house. …

Three weeks later, in mid-March, investigators arrested Cross at his home. He was charged with 3rd-degree sexual abuse, posted $10,000 bond, and was released.

"How am I supposed to know? I took her out in public. We did all of this. I mean it was real in my eyes, but it's a game to her. How am I supposed to know? " Cross asked.

Cross has already lost his job as a money guard because he's not allowed to carry a gun while he awaits trial. And it's difficult to find a new job, since he is presumed to be a sexual predator.

The heart of the matter is this: there is little recourse for people who sincerely and understandably, but wrongly, believe their partner is past the age of consent:

According to Iowa law, someone having sexual contact with a 14 or 15-year-old is only legal if the other person is older by four years or less. In all other instances, such contact is illegal. One Dubuque criminal lawyer doesn't think Cross' argument will hold up in court.

"It doesn't matter whether you know the other person's age or not. The minor could come forward with a fake ID, a forged birth certificate and a bunch of people attesting to their age. It makes absolutely no difference whether you intended to do something that was against the law or not," Dubuque County Public Defender Steve Drahozal said.

When I wrote here and elsewhere about Zach Anderson and Darian Yoder—teenagers who also slept with underage girls who told them they were 19—some commenters jeered, "They should have asked for proof of the girl's age before they did anything!" But apparently, even that is not enough: Falsified proof is no excuse. Maybe judges would like would-be paramours to submit to some kind of carbon-dating scheme, whereby a few cells from the object of their affection can be shipped to a lab to determine their exact age before the relationship proceeds.

Comments

[kinnath]

It makes absolutely no difference whether you intended to do something that was against the law or not,

As intended.

[Quixote]

Indeed, and let us remember that neither good faith nor truth is a defense. This is just one of those things where you know it when you see it. The way you know satire that crosses the line when you see it. See the documentation of America's leading criminal satire case at:

http://raphaelgolbtrial.wordpress.com/

There, someone sent out criminal "Gmail confessions" portraying a distinguished academic department chairman as justifying an act of alleged plagiarism on the grounds that "if I had given credit to this man I would have been banned from conferences around the world." That is an outrageous crime, pure and simple, just as it's a crime to sleep with a 14-year-old girl without "recognizing" her age. This is how we handle liberal agents in America, so let's not start with the baloney.

[MarkM]

In criminal law, the professor actually spends a LOT of time talking about mens rea (guilty mind). It is a fairly recent development that a lot of crimes (both state and federal) got passed where mens rea is no longer an element to the crime. There is actually a very interesting argument that substantive due process under the Constitution should be read to require mens rea for serious criminal liability to attach, resulting in a constitutionally-required "good-faith" defense. See, Richard Singer & Douglas Husak, "Of Innocence and Innocents: The Supreme Court and Mens Rea Since Herbert Packer", 2 BUFF. CRIM. L. REV. 859, 861 (1999) (arguing, in the context of strict criminal liability, that the Supreme Court has recently "reinvigorated its concern with protecting innocent persons as the bedrock of federal criminal law"); Laurie L. Levenson, "Good Faith Defenses: Reshaping Strict Liability Crimes", 78 Cornell L. Rev. 401 (1993). See also, Garnett v. State, 632 A.2d 797, 802?03 (Md. 1999) (observing that twenty-one jurisdictions have some kind of mistake of age defense to statutory rape).

That being said, Iowa does not recognize a "good faith" type defense. Indeed, the Iowa Supreme Court has explicitly rejected it. As a result, his behavior probably qualifies as "sexual abuse in the third degree" under Iowa law.
https://www.legis.iowa.gov/docs/code/709.4.pdf

[DEllett]

RE: "a very interesting argument that substantive due process...should be read to require mens rea..."

Does it really take a professor of criminal law or more than a cursory understanding of the Constitution or of simple morality to understand that we cannot justly be punished for doing wrong when we genuinely did not know that we were doing wrong?

It seems such a fundamental human right that one must be proven guilty of "committing a crime", knowingly, that to even argue the point seems surreal and incredible.

Are there not literally an innumerable number of state and federal laws that base prosecution and sentencing on the knowledge of the offender? Why else would we have a different set of criteria for children? Is there anyone, including idiot politicians and judges who make such alien decrees, who does not consider knowledge of wrong in their personal judgments?

Any system of justice that does not fundamentally consider and recognize an intent to do wrong as a basis for prosecution and administration of punishment is itself a system of injustice to the extent it fails to do so.

My frustration is that it is so fundamentally and self-evidently unjust to punish a person for doing wrong who genuinely had no idea of doing any wrong, that I would think debate would center around pointing out the obvious error of such laws and processes, how they came to be, or what would need to be done to change it back to a presumption of innocence.

[Quixote]

Ignorance of the criminal law is not an excuse, and everyone knows, for example, that if your satire crosses the line you must be presumed to have acted with the intent to cross that line. When you do so, everyone knows that you become a criminal, regardless of any "good-faith" excuses you can invent when you try to justify your inappropriate speech. At the very least, the burden is on you to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that you did not act with the intent to cross that line. Of course, law professors like to spout off about "mens rea" to show how liberal they are, but that is a Latin term and refers to an outdated concept that has no applicability when dealing with speech or conduct that nobody likes.

[fafalone]

Good faith and ignorance of criminal law IS an excuse, but only if you're a cop who has wrongfully arrested someone. Courts have ruled it is in fact ok for cops to be mistaken about the law, but not for non- law enforcement.

[Quixote]

Yes indeed, and that is the way it should and must be. Otherwise, we would risk damaging public confidence in the criminal justice system. Furthermore, if the standard were the same for cops, they wouldn't be able to do a number of things that sometimes need to be done. For example, the "First Amendment" would prevent them from suppressing various forms of provocative speech that we all know need to be suppressed by whatever means necessary. So let us give thanks that we have two standards, one for criminals, and another for those who have the difficult task of keeping order among certain unruly and recalcitrant elements of our society.

[Gadianton]

"It doesn't matter whether you know the other person's age or not. The minor could come forward with a fake ID, a forged birth certificate and a bunch of people attesting to their age. It makes absolutely no difference whether you intended to do something that was against the law or not," Dubuque County Public Defender Steve Drahozal said.

So, mens rea is truly dead. Nice to know.

[WTF]

Has been for a while.

[Juvenile Bluster]

Statutory rape was more or less the forefront of removing mens rea from crime. It's always been a strict liability crime.

This statement is beyond insane though.

[Crusty Juggler]

That is the worst part about this story. That statement should be the story, not Dingus Cop.

[Michael Ejercito]

What is mens rea, and why is it so important?

[IceTrey]

What is Google and why is it important?

It stops you from looking ignorant online.

[cavalier973]

Ignorance isn't a problem unless it is willfully perpetuated.

[FYTW]

It's a Latin term which literally means "the guilty mind." It refers to the culpable mental state that's generally one of the elements of a criminal offense: normally, the prosecution has to not only prove that you committed criminal acts, but that you did so intentionally, knowingly, recklessly, or negligently, depending on the particulars of the statute you're accused of violating.

Offenses that don't require a culpable mental state are referred to as "strict liability" offenses. Historically, strict liability was reserved for minor offenses that were more regulatory than criminal, and punishable by fines rather than imprisonment (think traffic tickets). Needless to say we've moved rather far afield from that, because THINK OF THE CHIIIIILLDDDREEEEN, and FYTW.

[DEllett]

Thanks!

[Careless]

How do you spend so much time on legal blogs and not know thaT?

[Florida Man]

If it was anyone but a cop I would have full sympathy, but you know he pulled that girls info up in the police database.

[kinnath]

Kyle Cross, 29, is awaiting trial on two charges of 3rd degree sexual abuse. Prosecutors claim he had sex with a 14-year-old girl he met online about six months ago, long after he left the police force in 2012

From the linked article.

[Florida Man]

I'm trying to get my cop hate boner on and you're killing it!

[Citizen X]

I know you didn't read the article, but if you had, you might have noted that trying to get a boner doesn't always end so well.

[SimonJester]

No, it's like the One Ring. Having it isnt nearly the problem as using it. Unforunately, once you have it, using it really seems like a good idea.

[Citizen X]

Ok, i am definitely telling my wife to start referring to my junk as her "precious."

[Free Society]

Having your wife obcess over your junk might sound appealing, right up until she cuts it off while you sleep and absconds to Mexico wearing it as a necklace.

[Free Society]

obsess* titty fucking christ

[Citizen X]

Jesus, dude. You, uh, need to hang out with a better class of woman.

[sarcasmic]

Mens rea is so quaint.

[Akira]

It's probably sexist too.. It has "mens" right in the name!!

[Dark Lord of the wood chipper]

There's only one way to tell her real age.

CUT HER OPEN AND COUNT THE RINGS!

[Jerry on the sea]

Pubic hair ftw.

[Gary]

With all the shaved pussy out there, it's hard to find pubic hair.

[Careless]

I mean, I've never seen a 14 year old girl naked, but wouldn't most of them have fully grown in pubic hair by then?

[MichaelL]

As a sixteen year old who had illicit sex with 14 yr old-s, in high school before the landscaping era...HECK YEAH! Some of it was overgrown and would need a bush-hog to cut!

[Jerry on the sea]

Pubic hair ftw.

[Free Market Socialist $park?]

Well Miss Smartypants, how would you suggest we keep children from being victimized in this country?

[UnCivilServant]

We give the nannyists an internship at some sort of camp, an internment camp if you will, where they are far away from the children and those who come into contact with children.

[ace_m82]

Most parents have access to guns, right?

My children will always be really safe. Heck, by the time they're 14 they'd better be able to hit a 12 in target at 100 yds reliably...

"Safety" through superior firepower!

[Brett L]

Hey, this hot girl totally needs a place to crash. I'll bet this is all on the up-and-up! I agree. An affirmative defense that you believed you were sleeping with an adult should be enough. But come on. By 28-29, you should be a little wiser about the way the world works. Its a trap!

[commodious spittoon]

I insist on keeping my tinfoil cap securely fastened, even during sex. Especially during sex.

[Brett L]

I have a friend who is a Nigerian prince whose asssets are trapped in Nigeria. He needs an American with a bank account to liberate that money and will give him 80% of the $12M. Its really like an Internet security programmer falling for a 519 scam.

[commodious spittoon]

I'm willing to give the guy a little more latitude than that. IT professionals are actively looking out for that sort of thing, while horny men in their twenties are wired to be credulous about receptive women.

Granted, knowing that this sort of thing occurs and carries a life sentence is a pretty good reason to be a little skeptical...

[Princess Trigger]

I had a similar experience when I was 24. A fairly pretty girl, said she was 19, needed a place to crash. After a few days (and a half dozen, much needed, sexual encounters) it kind of sunk in my thick brain that maybe she wasn't as old as she said and maybe a hooker or runaway - wasn't willing to answer detailed questions. I'd met her in a college bar, so she had some fake id, but who doesn't. She found someone more gullible, or more generous, by the next weekend and was gone and stole some of my albums. Probably dodged a bullet there.

[commodious spittoon]

I notice nowhere in your story did you mention contacting the police and reporting your crime. How can you live with the shame of not feeding yourself face-first into the judicial woodchipper?

[Princess Trigger]

I'm not quite as stupid as I look ... or sound ... or smell.

[sarcasmic]

My experience was very similar.

[toolkien]

Hah! I never have had to dodge said bullet. I knew that being fat, ugly, and irascible would payoff someday.

[MichaelL]

Is there a statute of limitation? Just thinking of that encounter thirty-five years ago!

[Just say Nikki]

After that exchange, Cross said he immediately told police where they could find her. She was staying at his house.

How fucking many times do people have to be told never, ever, EVER to call the cops?

[Just say Nikki]

Also, seriously, why call the cops for a runaway??? She RAN AWAY. Fuck.

[Brett L]

I wonder that myself. Sometimes kids run away because they think the situation is bad when it isn't. Some large percentage of the time, sleeping with a person who feeds you regularly and doesn't beat the shit out of you is way better than what they left.

[Long Woodchippers]

my daughter ran away when she was 14 or 15 for most of a week. scared the shit out of us, and after 3 or 4 days she started realizing being on the street was a whole lot worse than home, which actually was fine - she simply had parents with limits. Now she's 29 and still lives with us. I will let her run away this time.

[Crusty Juggler]

why call the cops for a runaway???

To help her, you monster.

[Free Market Socialist $park?]

Because she was guilty... of stealing his heart.

[SimonJester]

http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3tnxfl

Same girl?

[IceTrey]

Help her? She's lucky they didn't shoot her.

[Irish ?s ESB]

If you wanted to contact someone, couldn't he have contacted the parents?

Also, deny deny deny. If you have sex with someone who turns out to be lying about their age, you never admit you slept together!

[Florida Man]

He is extra stupid. I'm sure he has used the "come clean and we will go easy" trick himself countless times. I guess he thought he was special.

[Agammamon]

And he should know - he *was* a cop*!

[Florida Man]

Last out of 3 12:06 post?!? Fuck!

[Florida Man]

3rd out of 5, I'll take the bronze.

[commodious spittoon]

Maybe judges would like would-be paramours to submit to some kind of carbon-dating scheme, whereby a few cells from the object of their affection can be shipped to a lab to determine their exact age before the relationship proceeds.

And a test for dopamine to establish an acceptable degree of arousal.

[Citizen X]

Carbon dating wouldn't work anyway - cells have such a high turnover rate that the oldest cell in your body is never more than seven years of age, and the life span of a skin cell is more like a week.

Then again, maybe that's a bonus. Everyone's a sexual predator! You can't prove you're not!

[SugarFree]

This bastard slept with a 7 year-old?!?

[Agammamon]

That's why you have to strangle them first.

[Careless]

Right, carbon dating gives a date from the time of death. Not that it was a serious proposal, I'm sure.

[lap83]

He doesn't look like the brightest bulb on the tree.

[Citizen X]

His elevator doesn't go all the way to the knife drawer.

[Brett L]

That's probably a good thing.

[Citizen X]

The light's on, but nobody's whistling past the graveyard in THIS economy.

[Hamster of Doom]

If brains were gasoline, he wouldn't have enough to fart in a blender.

[commodious spittoon]

Bulbs don't grow on trees, silly. They grow underground, where it's dark and not bright.

[lap83]

is that why they call them tulip bulbs?

[Crusty Juggler]

Kyle Cross, 29, a former police office

Guilty.

"How am I supposed to know?

Because you are 29, moron.

Not that he should be in prison and on sex offender lists, but...moron.

[My Dog Bites Better Than Yours]

A former cop at 29 years old.
I'm sure there is a story there.

[sarcasmic]

Years ago I was seeing a girl who lied about her age. I caught her when I took her to a Chinese restaurant and asked her what sign she was on the placemat. When she was unable to immediately choose her sign based upon her birth year, but instead had to think about it, I realized she was not telling the truth about her age.

[Florida Man]

I'm the Cock. Fitting.

[Citizen X]

Hey, me too.

[Mainer2]

my wife is the monkey.

Carl Spackler: "Ooh Mrs. Crane, you're a little monkey woman you know that? You're a little monkey woman... You're lean and you're mean and you're not too far between either I bet, are ya? "

[sarcasmic]

So is Mick Jagger.

[Florida Man]

81?

[Citizen X]

2017, but i'm a time traveler.

[Florida Man]

*slaps forehead*
Of course...

[lap83]

If a grown adult is outsmarted by a teenager, there is some kind of mental deficiency. I don't care how she looks, a 14 year old is years away from having a fully formed brain and they will act that way. That said, teenagers should still have more responsibility than we give them. But I don't have respect for adults who can't figure out the difference between a 19 year old and a 14 year old.

[Just say Nikki]

Well, we know he used to be a cop, so his IQ can't be very high.

[Mainer2]

And if he became a cop right out of high school, he was about half way to a pension. How incompetent is this guy ?

[sarcasmic]

He couldn't hack it as a cop, so I would say he's extremely incompetent.

[Irish ?s ESB]

That's part of what amazes me about this story. So the guy hung out with a 14 year old FOR A WEEKEND and at no point did her mannerisms clue him into the fact that she might not be 19?

[Free Market Socialist $park?]

Funny that you think there's a difference between a 14 and 19 year old's mannerisms.

Like, oh my GAWD!

[Crusty Juggler]

This past week I had random conversations with a young lady who is still in high school, and a young lady who is in graduate school, and based solely on those conversations I would not have been able to tell a difference in their age.

Dingus Cop was thinking "sure, she is younger, but she is HOT," and went along with it.

[lap83]

What grade in high school?

I would posit that there's a bigger difference between the average high schooler and a middle schooler than the average high schooler and college student.

[Crusty Juggler]

I would agree with you. I have no idea what grade. I would not have guessed she was that young if she did not have braces and a notebook with a high school's label on it.

[Irish ?s ESB]

Hey man, when I hang around the community college with my tripped out Camaro, the girls definitely behave differently than when I'm revving my engine and doing donuts in the middle school parking lot with the goal of impressing chicks.

They're nothing alike. I can't even right now.

[r3VOLutionarykind]

God blessed us with two heads... and cursed us by only giving us enough blood to operate one of them at a time.

[Crusty Juggler]

I know thirty year old men who still think, act, and dress like teenagers, so I am not surprised that ignorance, either willful or not, happened here.

"Dude, she is hot and she talks to me!"

[lap83]

Their conversation probably sounded like something out of Boogie Nights

"OMG you like sunrises too?!?"

[Rasilio]

you are full of shit.

My son is 15 and could VERY easily pass for 19 or 20 both from a looks and mental perspective.

The fact of the matter is that kids mature at different rates and there are 14 year olds who are physically indistinguishable from a 20 something and there are 19 year olds who look 14. The same goes for apparent mental and emotional maturity.

If you think you would be able to spot someone who was 14 an pretending they were 19 you are just wrong because some of them look and act so mature you'd never even stop to question their age, especially if you met them in a place where they have to show ID and be over 18 to get in.

[sarcasmic]

Ten or fifteen years ago I was working at a movie theater that of course was frequented by teenagers, and some of the girls would flirt with me. At one point I asked one of them how old she was, and she said she was twelve. Fucking twelve. I was floored. She could have passed for seventeen, and she was fucking twelve. What are the putting in the water?

[Agammamon]

Better nutrition - earlier physical maturation.

[toolkien]

Coupled with a society the increased the period of juvenility to 25-26 and it's a mighty unwholesome mix. People are maturing by 12-13 and get to be childish until they're 25. Isn't making for a foundation for the future.

[Long Woodchippers]

My daughter, who I mentioned above, was close friends for awhile with a classmate up the street, and the friend spent lots of time at out place. Beautiful, with great tits - and she was 12. They're still Facebook friends, and I looked her up recently, and now at 27 I'd immediately recognize her, can't tell the new photos apart from my memory.

[lap83]

If you think you would be able to spot someone who was 14 an pretending they were 19 you are just wrong because some of them look and act so mature you'd never even stop to question their age

Because mature 14 year olds run away from home and go shack up in a strange ex-cop's house right before their lies get him sent to jail.

[Illocust]

That's no more crazy than some of the girls I went to college with, and depending on her home life that may be the most mature option. As someone upthread pointed out a comfortable house, three square meals a day, and no physical abuse in exchange for sex with someone who 'cares' is a pretty sweet deal for some people. Definitely beats normal hooking.

[mica]

A 14 year old with a legit bad situation at home can be very worldly and mature for their age.

[lap83]

Btw, your 15 year old son is still less mature than he will be at 19. We are comparing averages here. Your argument reminds me of the people who claim that a woman is as physically capable of being a fireman as a man, just because some women are freakishly strong.

[Illocust]

And I have had to explain that my 6'7" little brother was too young for alcohol college parties to my friends. A life time of being taller and more physically mature than his age group peers led to him developing a mental maturity at 14 that could be mistaken for a freshman in college.

We aren't talking about the averages here lap83. We are talking about the outliers, because they exist. People should not be charged with a crime and put on a sex offender registry, for being taken in by someone they met in a bar who look and acts the age on their fake ID.

[Sevens]

Agreed. Compared to the costs of punishment and correction, the costs of evaluating individual cases (checking the girl's appearence, actual maturity and vulnerability) are small. Plus this - punishment - is about doing harm, not about withholding benefits, such as when excluding all women from private security, or firefighting. (Not saying the latter is practiced or would be prudent/imprudent.)

[DEllett]

Exactly! Anyone who thinks they would know for sure is being disingenuous at the very least.

Considering his age, I find it doubtful that he did not notice any red flags, BUT I do know that it is possible. Who, over the age of 30, has not personally ran into many cases in which there was a vast difference in looks and age - and going both ways too?

Also, she was a runaway. If she had been a runaway for very long and depending on where she had been living and with who, she could have experienced a very accelerated pace of maturity. Being a runaway for even 2 weeks can have a substantial effect on the mental maturity of a child of any age.

Further, most children at the age of 14 have a very good sense of right and wrong and, generally speaking, are reasonably cognizant of what it means to have sex on a personal level, though not so much on the consequences of having children.

If it could be proved that he knew he had sex with a 14 year old, I disagree with the current punishment, because it presupposes that she was completely innocent and that is rarely the case. Of course liberals and government agencies will argue that any 14 year old girl can make such decisions when it suits their interests, but then argue the exact opposite when it suits them as well.

So while I have my doubts about Kyle's innocence in this case, I have no doubt whatsoever about our fundamental human right to be presumed innocent until proven guilty of "committing" a crime.

[Chip Woodier]

I'm always trying to get women to lie about their age. Well, dress like a slutty Catholic school girl, anyway.

[ant1sthenes]

Protip: If you're nearly 30, don't sleep with 14-year-olds.

[Crusty Juggler]

If you're nearly 30, don't sleep with 14-year-olds.

In America. Am I right, fellas?

[sarcasmic]

If you're pushing 30 you should probably be dating someone who is old enough to get into a bar.

[LarryA]

My youngest daughter, from the time she was 15, never got carded unless everybody was checked. My eldest daughter routinely got carded until she was 30.

[sarcasmic]

I'm in my 40s and I still get carded.

[Long Woodchippers]

I started at 15 and have yet to be carded

[Hamster of Doom]

There's a fine penis joke hiding in that phrasing.

[pan fried wylie]

Just the ProTip.

[Mainer2]

Prosecutors have discretion I'm told. This seems like a situation where they could exercise that discretion. Unless it's the other situation where their hands are tied because the law is the law. It's very confusing.

[sarcasmic]

It said he's a former cop, so it will likely be the latter.

[Juvenile Bluster]

She was looking very good and so was I, I must say - word
We hit McDonald's, pulled into the drive
We ordered two Big Macs and two large fries with Cokes
She kicked her shoes off onto the floor
She said, "Drive fast, speed turns me on"
She put her hand on my knee, I put my foot on the gas
We almost got whiplash, I took off so fast
The sun roof was open , the music was high
And this girl's hand was steadily moving up my thigh
She had opened up three buttons on her shirt so far
I guess that's why I didn't notice that police car
We're doing ninety in my Mom's new Porsche
And to make this long story short - short
When the cop pulled me over I was scared as hell
I said, "I don't have a license but I drive very well, officer"
I almost had a heart attack that day
Come to find out the girl was a twelve-year-old runaway
I was arrested, the car was impounded
There was no way for me to avoid being grounded
My parents had to come off from vacation to get me
I'd rather be in jail than to have my father hit me
My parents walked in
I got my grip, I said, "Ah, Mom, Dad, how was your trip?"
They didn't speak - I said, "I want to plead my case"
But my father just shoved me in the car by my face
That was a hard ride home, I don't know how I survived
They took turns - one would beat me while the other was driving
I can't believe it, I just made a mistake
Well parents are the same no matter time nor place
So to you all the kids all across the land
Take it from me, parents just don't understand

[Ken Shultz]

"The heart of the matter is this: there is little recourse for people who sincerely and understandably, but wrongly, believe their partner is past the age of consent".

The recourse is mens rea and a jury of his peers.

Among other things, mens rea means that just like you should not be criminally convicted for stealing something that you honestly believe to be yours, you should also not be criminally convicted for having sex with a minor you honestly believe to be of legal age.

[sarcasmic]

mens rea = soft on crime. Duh.

[Mainer2]

soft on crime = pervert

[Michael Ejercito]

What jurisdiction in history ever required such a thing?

[R C Dean]

Required what? Mens rea for a criminal conviction?

Well, this one, until relatively recently.

[Sevens]

Should. There's strict liability.

[AlmightyJB]

29 is beyond pushing it. Punishment should match the crime though which was douchy but not severe.

[B.P.]

I would've believed her... who runs away to Dubuque, Iowa?

[Michael Ejercito]

So what is wrong with this?

[DesigNate]

You're kidding, right?

[Mrs. Lemuel Struthers]

In the ex-cops defense, her boobs were probably quite the distraction preventing him from fully assessing her true level of maturity because BOOBS.

[Sevens]

Had to read that several times.

[Rhywun]

The obvious solution is don't touch women.

[OldMexican]

Maybe judges would like would-be paramours to submit to some kind of carbon-dating scheme, whereby a few cells from the object of their affection can be shipped to a lab to determine their exact age before the relationship proceeds.

Or maybe people should stop the silliness that is "dating" altogether. Assume that any woman who wants sex before marriage is a disease-ridden whore and, instead, begin courtship with your potential mate. You know, get to know the family and crap, like people who thought with their heads instead of their dicks used to do.

[Agammamon]

Yeah, because that's produced so many happy families and not a couple of 18 year olds getting married just so they can finally have sex.

[OldMexican]

You mean that is not a reason to marry?

[SamDod598]

Wow thats messed up man, seriously . Gie the dude a break, a 14 year old knows exactly what she wants!

http://www.Full-Anon.tk

[Overt]

Has Anon-bot been studying with the 14 yr olds? Because he is getting pretty good.

[Akira]

It's probably "human spam". There are plenty of people on "black hat" Internet marketing forums who will type up these posts that are actually related to the subject being discussed.

[waffles]

You're a weird bot. Never change.

[Trouser-Pod (The blowhard)]

Yeah...he she it is pretty awesome. Never thought I'd get all Deckard-ish over a bot.

[esteve7]

Please go on about male privilege.....

Literally checking ID and it was a fake, and they say it doesn't matter? What the hell are you supposed to do then?

[macsnafu]

To quote an old saying, "The law is an ass."

[Bubba Jones]

He banged some random homeless girl for 3 days without googling her name? Note that his friend recognized it immediately.

[R C Dean]

His friend is a cop, you know, who ran the name and it came up as a missing kid. Duh.

[Sevens]

Strict liability is an essential anomaly in criminal law. It should be removed. Of course the law of sex is full of unacceptable anomalies, so that fits right in.

[biljay]

To bad he cannot sue her for lying and causing him harm.

[Babylonandon]

Buddy of mine from way back was spending quality time with this Latin chick who reminded him of his ex-wife (he'd married this Filipina gal who bailed on him 6 months into the marriage). He goes to pick her up at her place at the appointed time ... and she doesn't show. No calls ... no one answers the door ... nothing.

A couple days later, he drops back by at the same time and runs into her older sister out on the step (who has a kid) and the sister drops him a line about how her sib is shacked up with a guy that had a bunch of money and she didn't know when she'd be back and sis was pissed too as the younger one was supposed to be babysitting for her during the day ... so he figures "what the hell" and he takes the older sister home for the night. Next morning when he's getting Sis up to take her home she tells him she's only 16 and her sis is 14.

Talk about messing up his whole week. Needless to say he moved a couple months later to a different neighborhood and kept a low profile for quite a while afterwards.

[Foo_dd]

if dateline can get people thrown in jail for thinking they are going to meet an underage girl, it would seem intent is important. the fact that he called it in when he found out should make it obvious he didn't know.

the fact that he told the cops all about everything probably explains why he is an EX cop. (seriously?!?! you used to be a cop and thought it would be OK to tell them?!?!?)

still... creepy

[Robert]

Should've killed & eaten her, then nobody'd've been the wiser. Like those who don't kill a zombified friend, he let his sentiment endanger him.

Now probably what he'd want is a bench trial. The judge could find some way to get him off w little fuss.

[IMissLiberty]

This travesty is another reason to serve jury duty. Common sense in law is in short supply, and D.A.'s are elected politicians motivated by convictions, not justice. Only juries can refuse to convict in these cases.
Also, if toddlers are tried as juveniles because they're immature, then all juveniles should be tried as juveniles because they're immature. But it seems like the more immature they are, the more likely they are to be tried as adults. Juries have to refuse to convict when, ex post facto, children are tried as adults.
Three strikes is unjust, too, and the Judge won't even let the jury know it's a 3-strikes case, but it's both ex post facto and double jeopardy in action, both unconstitutional.

[DEllett]

Excellent points!

Too bad so many jurists don't understand their power or don't have the guts to exercise it. All we can do is keep trying to educate them.

[maryloh]

Online dating is helpful to meet new people and make friends but we cannot trust the unknown people until we have the assurance that the person is not lying. Therefore the experts always suggest to take the help of professional dating websites like Millionaire matchmaker or millionaire concierge so that nobody could cheat on you or lie about their identity.

[Cyto]

Yeah, everything "for the children" is insane. Most recently we had the Fayetteville NC prosecution of a teenage boy as an adult for exploiting a minor..... for possessing naked photographs of himself. A situation that seems to require everyone else involved to laugh the prosecutor right out of court, but instead results in a guilty plea to avoid life-long and extreme consequences.

[DEllett]

I would agree that a person who knowingly lied and who was also informed that he/she could be prosecuted and sentenced to the same punishment, should then be held liable to that extent, but no double. It serves no purpose. The punishment should fit the crime.

BUT, it is a major defect in our justice system, that those who lie or mislead often get away with little or more often no punishment.

It is also the exact reason that so many on death row have been found innocent, which is because prosecutors, law enforcement officers, judges and witnesses in general get away with obstructing the justice system with impunity.

The day that prosecutors, law enforcement officers and judges get prosecuted for attempted murder or something similar in death penalty cases when they lie or do anything to obstruct justice, is the day when the death penalty process can be sped up to effect the same as any other criminal trial, and the day when the death penalty becomes very, very effective.