What the Made-for-TV Movie About Ben Carson, Donald Trump's Closest Rival for the GOP Nomination, Tells Us About His Appeal

Ben Carson, the former neurosurgeon who has been rising steadily in the GOP presidential polls over the last month, is quickly closing the gap between himself and he field's leader, Donald Trump.
In a new poll from CBS News and The New York Times, Carson is in close second place, with 23 percent support, up from 6 percent, while Trump has maintained the lead with 27 percent support. It's an increasingly close, unexpected race between two non-traditional candidates with no political experience.
I wrote about Ben Carson, and Gifted Hands, the made-for-TV movie starring Cuba Gooding, Jr. that effectively tells his origin story, for Politico Magazine today. The piece compares Carson to Trump, and argues that while they share a certain kind of appeal, Carson is different in important ways. From the piece:
There's little doubt that the simultaneous rise of both Trump and Carson has something to do with the similar nature of their appeal as outsiders. But there are crucial differences as well. Trump, a flashy attention-seeker who inherited massive wealth and connections from his New York construction magnate father, had every advantage handed to him. Carson, the self-doubting young man raised in Detroit by a financially strapped single mother, made himself and his life with practically no built-in support. In this sense, Carson isn't another Trump; he's the anti-Trump—a truly self-made man.
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I read the book and saw the movie. No doubt, Ben is one helluva pediatric neurosurgeon
Also, in honor of being first, I would like to hereafter be known as "Woodchipper of Etiquette".
WoE is you?
Well played.
Excellent
I shall ponder it on the Tree of WoE....
No quotes, no formatting, doesn't count as a first.
In that case, change my name to "Stands with Woodchipper in Air".
Tatanka...
I don't know why you people build up your brand only to change it more frequently than a teenage girl's Instagram profile pic.
I'm still tinkering with my persona. Part of me wants to revert to an old, but long held identity of "Plush Cthulhu", but we've already got some Lovecraftian handles floating around.
I also used to have a handle of "Bigby's Extended Digit", but that one looks like it's trying to muscle in on your namespace, FoE.
And then there were a couple of bizarre robot-related ones, and while I yield to no man in my admiration of Agile Cyborg, I wouldn't want to be mistaken as a fanboy.
I think i transitioned my brand pretty smoothly.
"Yo, fuck a foolish consistency" - Ralph Waldo Emerson
"Word" - T.S. Eliot
*drops mike*
-Sylvia Plath
"I don't know why you people build up your brand only to change it more frequently than a teenage girl's Instagram profile pic."
That does it, I'm going with "generic".
Carson, the self-doubting young man raised in Detroit by a financially strapped single mother, made himself and his life with practically no built-in support.
UNQUALIFIED FOR THE PRESIDENCY
His mother was (literally) illiterate. I guess that debunks the "reading to your kids" theory.
It doesn't hurt to do so. I would say Carson is an outlier whose self-motivation is way beyond normal mortals.
What if you're reading it Mein Kampf or Manifest der kommunistischen Partei, huh?
Carson tells a hilarious story about how his mom forced him to do book reports. She would put all kinds of squiggles and check marks on them so it looked like she had read them. He didn't find out she was illiterate until he was much older.
I'm glad he can look back and laugh about it, but sounds really sad to me.
On first brush, sure. But it's a stroke of brilliance for a woman trying to normalize achievement in her home. Maybe she wanted to mask her illiteracy, but aside from papering over her shame it would have reinforced her expectations.
That's rather brilliant of her. Kudos to the woman for making sure her kid would go farther than herself.
His mother was (literally) illiterate. I guess that debunks the "reading to your kids" theory.
I have found that people who are illiterate really push their kids to read.
People from poor backgrounds with little education generally place a tremendous amount of value on education for their kids. Like poor, working class immigrants, for example.
/causally strolls away whistling
Que?
Who said it was ok for you to say que?!? I have alot of Spanish friends, some of who have Latino friends or even family, and I can tell you -- it's Latino Hermitage Month, your responding to something about something, and want to use there language? Trick NO! White posters appropriating the Spanish language, dropping it in when convenient, never ok. Keep the hermitage of the friends of my friends out of your mouth! If there not allowed to speak it, if there dad's aren't allowed to speak it, then bitch you definately are not supposed to be speaking it. Especially in this context.
Nice.
what WTF said
Mamon mi la verga, guerito.
*chin-lift hello*
People from poor backgrounds with little education generally place a tremendous amount of value on education for their kids.
I've seen a lot of that as well.
"Like poor, working class immigrants, for example."
This isn't always the case. In some cultures it's considered disrespectful to for kids to do better than their parents. Incomprehensible, I know. But it's how some parents feel.
Name one.
Yeah, that's a new one to me. I'm not sure how such a culture could survive more than a few generations.
I have heard this attitude expressed many times by the Mexican immigrants in Southern California. Plus, Mexican parents think nothing of keeping their kids home from school for the most trivial of reasons (family before education). But this attitude also exists in white culture. For instance, my mother was quite offended when I quit my janitorial job to join the Air Force. She felt that if janitorial work was good enough for her, then it was good enough for me.
OK, I suppose there is the "so you're too good for this?" attitude from some parents. Class warfare bullshit.
But this attitude seems prevalent only among uneducated, first-generation immigrants. Second generation immigrants don't seem to think this way, which is a good thing.
Well, we're building a culture where kids are trained to have no expectation of doing any better than their parents.
It takes a village, right?
It does take a village. Just not in the awful "we own your kids" way.
"People from poor backgrounds with little education generally place a tremendous amount of value on education for their kids. Like poor, working class immigrants, for example."
How does this claim square with all the uneducated parents who raise uneducated children unto the 8th generation?
Depends on who you are talking about.
Some people are just stupid. That could be part of it.
"Some people are just stupid."
That's my fallback explanation for pretty much any fucked up situation.
Yeah, I would say "generally" is probably not true. More like - just because someone didn't receive an education doesn't mean that they aren't smart enough to see the benefits of it for their children
btw, I was being semi-facetious. Obviously, it is the parental care and involvement (whatever the form) that is a key factor.
Congratulations on being first, Brooks!
Ah - a man who knows and respects The Rules?
*tips tophat and raises champagne glass to WP*
I thought it's polo shirt and ascot day.
Champagne? What time zone are you in? I'm still on my breakfast bourbon.
I got a new bourban, 1829, or what ever year Kentucky was discovered, I rate it a solid do not buy.
Not 1792? Round bottle? 'Cause yeah, for the price, that stuff sucks. I recommend Rowan's Creek if you can find it, or Fireside if you're in Colorado. Both very smooth, good for breakfast drinking.
That's the one. I usually drink Blanton's or Angle's Envy, but I like to try news things. I was not pleased.
Bulliet's if I want to drink on the cheap.
Me neither. It's harsh and unpleasant. I was taken in by the pretty bottle and all the accolades on the shelf around it. I buy a bottle about every week, and for some reason I drink the ones I don't like so I can keep the good ones around for...something later on. Not sure what. I guess when I've drunk all the bad ones.
*buy a different bottle about every week.
I picked up a bottle of Angle's envy Rye (a personal favorite) and put it to the back of the shelf and will definitely finish this horrible bottle before I open my precious. Maybe it's a whisky guy thing.
Life is too short to punish yourself with nasty whiskey.
Invite friends over who like drinks with coke, ginger ale or some other adulterant, and give them the shitty stuff. It's not like they'll notice.
Good idea. I'll take it to a party or something.
Eh, you could always have two fingers of the good stuff first, then follow with the cheap stuff if it's a serious drinking day.
I just realized that Carson spoke at my high school back in the late 90s/early 2000s. I don't really remember much about it. That's all I got.
From what I can tell, Carson seems like an incredibly good and decent man.
I just don't think he'd make a particularly good president.
That's where I'm at with Ben. I have images of him paving roads with good intentions straight to ......
Hitler?
So even though he's a successful neurosurgeon, all you can envision him doing is manual labor?
Racist.
I laughed.
Westeros?
SOMALIA!
Yeah, my feelings for him are very similar to how I feel about Fiorina, I get a good vibe from them but, other than the boiler plate conservative rhetoric, I don't know too much about their policy positions to make any sort of real judgment.
There's something to be said for sheer competence.
I don't expect any President to be mistake free, but by golly, Obama is downright incompetent. Bush was incompetent.
I disagreed with the occupation of Iraq. If Bush hadn't disbanded the Iraqi military and started from square one with de-Baathification, I'm not sure we'd have ISIS today.
Point is, that I don't have to agree with everything somebody does, but for goodness' sake, if you're going to do something, do it competently.
I'm convinced that Fiorina has competence. She's going to make mistakes, but at least she's capable of doing it right. Obama isn't. No matter what he tries to do, he'll muck it up somehow.
P.S. Hillary Clinton is also incompetent.
She mucked up the Secretary of State job she had.
She only had one major legal case at Rose, and all the principals in the deal she put together went to prison for it--except for her and her husband.
She's incompetent. I wouldn't hire her to work on a parking ticket.
The president doesn't need to be an expert on everything, he just needs to be able to appoint the right people for the right jobs. That's one reason Washington was such a success, but Obama, who needs to be the smartest guy in every room, can't get anything accomplished.
"The president doesn't need to be an expert on everything, he just needs to be able to appoint the right people for the right jobs."
There's more to it than that.
The President needs to give his or her approval to all sorts of things. Disbanding the Iraqi military being one example.
As a CEO, your subordinates come to you with proposals, and you go through them and either approve and back them or reject them. Obama can't do that competently. Bush couldn't do that competently. Hillary couldn't do that competently.
If your proposal doesn't make sense, I think Carly is going to call you on it.
I am uncomfortable with his wearing his religion on his sleeve but it's hardly a deal-breaker. At least he doesn't seem to have the arrogance and narcissism of the current occupant.
But if it's between him and Trump, it's a pretty easy choice.
Absolutely. Yes, I disagree strongly with Carson on a lot of issues. But, he strikes me as a guy who would at least be open to convincing. Trump, on the other hand, genuinely scares me. I can honestly see him having dictatorial tendencies.
I can't see him not having dictatorial tendencies. He's an insecure little shitstain with a massive ego and no accomplishments who won't listen to criticism or disagreement. He's Obama with a toupee.
Honestly, Trump strikes me as worse than Obama. Essentially, Obama with the pendulum swung to the "right" on steroids. The thing that really struck me was when those two guys in Boston beat the crap out of the Hispanic homeless man citing him as a justification, he didn't really condemn it. Honestly, as much as I detest Barack Obama, I'm pretty sure he'd condemn violence against someone by his supporters.
Honestly, as much as I detest Barack Obama, I'm pretty sure he'd condemn violence against someone by his supporters.
Unsanctioned violence perhaps. At least publicly. But he'd SWAT someone in a heartbeat.
WP was talking about Trump. Now, aren't you embarrassed?
Anyone (like Trump) who needs to boss everyone around could not help but try to expand the power and influence of the Executive branch. Nuff said.
Yeah, he seems to be a talented and good person. With some odd and (to me) ridiculous beliefs.
Seems to me he could do a lot of good still, so why is he wasting his time with this crap?
Probably not, in the absolute sense.
But then, consider the competition.
I'm sold on Rand - though operating on someone's eye isn't as awesome as the kind of brain surgery Carson did, Rand makes up for it by having better ideas.
But apart from that, really, what makes Carson disqualified vis-a-vis the others?
His arrogance? Yeah, his opponents aren't exactly humble. But they ought to be, since they have a lot more to be humble *about.*
His gaffes? How will his sillier remarks affect his performance as President? It's headline-grabbing, but ultimately how would it affect a Carson administration that he said dumb stuff while running for office?
His lack of experience? Only Walker has more *relevant* experience, being a governor who actually accomplished stuff. Being a Senator, or a Vice-President, doesn't really count, it just shows you can bloviate in Congress and hire good staff to help your constituents. And being Secretary of State is certainly relevant, but if you mess it up (like Hillary) it kind of shows how she'd mess up as Pres.
I imagine that as President, Carson would pretty much be as mediocre as the others, but at least he'll reject some of the more retarded political superstitions.
Basically, while I doubt he'd be as awesome a President as he was a brain surgeon,
I also doubt he'd be worse than the clowns he's running against.
Well, there is the fact that I don't think his polices show much in the way of promise.
I doubt they do.
But we're comparing him to the other guys.
What's a "good and decent man" doing in politics at all?
Don't worry, the good and decent stuff wears off after the first couple months in office.
Where such a person exists, you will find the answer to be: losing.
"I just don't think he'd make a particularly good president."
Yeah, but that's not really the relevant metric. His benchmark is how he would do against the other likely candidates. Your other choices, in order of decreasing likelihood, are: Hilary Clinton, Donald Trump, Bernie Sanders.
Carson looks like the least worst plausible option right now. Le sigh.
I think him or Fiorina at this point are Least Worst. Le Sigh, indeed.
ROMNEY WOULD'VE BEEN WORSE!!!
/prog
When Carly and Trump have their clash at the next debate, I'd like to hear Carly say only, "Do you bite you thumb at me, sir" and then watch Trump get that retarded WTF face as he has no clue what's going on.
Carson is nuttier than squirrel turd, but he almost makes up for it being very soft-spoken. It is refreshing to have someone running from president that doesn't give off egomaniacal vibes.
But what's with his eyes? He's always squinting, like he's a black Mr. Magoo or something.
Cis-ocular Shitlord much???!!!
He's always squinting, like he's a black Mr. Magoo or something.
He related to Swiss?
You saying he's a Brother From Another Mother?
SOLID
*raises fist in the air*
someone running from president that doesn't give off egomaniacal vibes
That doesn't mean he's not an egomaniac, though. I think that's a prerequisite to running for president. He just hides the vibe better.
"Black Mr. Magoo"
Finally, my new H&R handle.
No the best option would be for a Trump v, Biden general, the vortex of derp would be a thing to behold. Now if we could set it up so neither of them would win.
He wants to ramp up the War on Drugs ("marijuana is what is known as a gateway drug-- a starter for people who move on to heavier duty drugs. I don't think this is something we really want for our society.") and reduce DUI BAC to 0,02%. Wants to get involved in Middle East wars ("Dr. Carson believes that ISIL presents a very clear, very real threat and the U.S. should be aggressive and committed to ISIL's destruction.")
Fuck Ben with rusty barbed wire.
Old Man is a Hilarytrumpite! You all heard him!
Unlike you, I have not actually had sex with Hillary.
Come on now, Warty can't help it that he's into chicks with hemipenes.
He has a vaginal prolapse fetish. Fortunately, the whole story was captured by SugarFree, so it will be released right before the Iowa primary.
He also thinks prison proves homosexuality is a choice.
no homo
He's not the first to think that...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKvtyvoy4Xk
I don't know the context of Carson's statement, but it's not wrong per se. Given the pretty noncontroversial statement "all sex is a choice"* to "gay sex is a choice". There is a strong correlation between homosexual orientation and homosexual behavior, but the one does not necessarily imply the other. None of this has any bearing on the law, however. We** don't ban things simply because they are choices; there has to be another compelling reason.
* setting aside rape
** excluding Bernie Sanders
edit... button...
Given the pretty noncontroversial statement "all sex is a choice"*, one can easily narrow the scope to "gay sex is a choice".
"reduce DUI BAC to 0,02"
This is the most retarded thing I have ever heard.
I think I could hit 0.02 from orange juice.
Is there any candidate running who doesn't want to meddle militarily in the Middle East and elsewhere?
Sanders?
Gary Johnson?
me?
Again, I don't think he'd make a particularly good president.
Sometimes otherwise decent people can have genuinely fucked up political views. That means be nice to them, treat them kindly, and never, ever, vote for them for public office.
He wants to ramp up the War on Drugs
Unlike all the God-talk, THAT is a deal-breaker. Because that is something he could actually accomplish.
Is there something wrong with Kasich?
I don't love him, but don't hate him yet either. And he is starting to seem plausible.
Censorious prick, drug warrior, targeted fracking with punitive taxes to protect established oil and gas companies, foreign adventurist. But other than that, sure, he's great.
At some point, Trump is going to start suffering from overexposure. ...and I don't mean just on this website.
It'll be basically like what happened to Palin. You want the electorate to get excited about you, but when the media becomes fixated, people get tired of it.
Remember that fat girl that was singing "All About That Bass" a year ago? Yeah, well everybody liked her more than Trump--and they're sick of both that song and the fat chick that sang it already.
You know what it is? It's the uncanny valley or something like it anyway...
We become more enamored of things people the more familiar they become, until they reach a certain point and become too familiar--at which point familiarity starts to breed more and more contempt.
Donald Trump was refreshing and new three months ago. Three months from now, seeing his face will be like scratching a chalkboard.
At some point, Trump is going to start suffering from overexposure. ...and I don't mean just on this website.
You think Trump's going to leak a dick pic?
Thank you for that image.
I should be better than this, but...do you think the Trump carpet matches the Trump drapes?
Naw, he lasers. It's like a turtle down there.
Massive ball combover dude
Trump is a leaky dick.
To paraphrase something I wrote elsewhere,
it seems inevitable that Trump will hang himself with the abundant amount of rope he is being given.
That would be the case in the past, but I do not think that is the way that political figures are currently judged. You have your person, or your team (to steal from Epi), and you defend that person, or your team, at every juncture.
We have a long way to go, of course, but Trump has a large group of people that will provide him with consistent support.
Could be. I can only hope he will be hoisted by his own retard.
Prediction: Trump and Carson run together with "Ebony and Ivory" as their theme song.
If they make a video of the two of them singing that, Shatner-style, I might actually consider elevating Trump back above Nikki as not the worst.
But would you vote for them?
Fuck no. Short of Trump quoting The Road to Serfdom as an answer in one of the debates, I don't see anything likely to convince me to vote for him. Or at all, probably.
I admire and like Dr. Carson very much. But his religious fanaticism is a deal-breaker for me. Believe whatever you want, just keep it to yourself and stop trying to impose your 'morals' on me.
What religious fanaticism?
Have you seen him interviewed? He talks about that stuff in the Bible like it's real. Completely delusional...
http://www.cnn.com/2015/09/11/.....authority/
OH SNAP!
"Anybody who thinks you can become a neurosurgeon by being an idiot savant is an idiot savant themselves idiot sans savant."
Better.
"Anybody who thinks you can become a neurosurgeon by being an idiot savant is an idiot savant themselves."
hth
What are his policies?
More meddling in the Middle East, crackdown on marijuana, heavy on the Jesus, and being a neurosurgeon
Yes, I realize that last one isn't a policy, per se, but it seems to be the number one selling point of his campaign.
OT: Aussie paper's live blog of 49er Jarred Hayne's debut.
that's fucking hilarious
The Vikings have 12 yards to go in a down. Something. It's fourth and eight. What do they do? They run... and get sacked. Teddy's collared. It's all 49ers as Aaron Lynch gives poor Teddy nightmares. Sacked. Couldn't tell you why it's called that. But sacked he was, Teddy, sacked like a poor employee.
Righto. Vikings ball. They have 9:30 to do something. Teddy Bridgewater has been solid without being the reincarnation of ... oh here we go, who? Joe Namath. I'm going with Joe Namath. But he's been good Teddy. Interception! Sorry Teddy, commentator's curse. Teddy's flung it to Jermaine Brock, his name could be, who took the ball and jogged down field, hiding behind several blocking men. Ha. Here's Carlos again, another first down. He's owning this puppy. Owning it like Don Trump owns stuff made of gold.
Political commentary, too? Nailed it.
HEY!
How about a trigger warning for us Minnesodans who are still traumatized by last night.
*Not really. I expected no less than a giant fizzle last night
Ben Carson
The Good
Cut every agency spending by 10%, with no exceptions. (Jan 2012)
The free market works. (Jan 2014)
Equip police with body cameras to avoid abusiveness. (Nov 2014)
Our public education system has become a propaganda system. (May 2015)
Law-abiding citizens have right to guns without registration. (Mar 2014)
The Bad
Evolution and creationism both require faith. (May 2012)
Stop severe trade imbalance via stiff tariffs. (Jan 2012)
Semi-automatic weapons ok in countryside, but not cities. (Mar 2013)
Reducing blood alcohol limit to .02 reduces drunk driving. (Jan 2012)
Free speech is wonderful, but hate speech causes actual harm. (Jan 2012)
The Ugly
ObamaCare is the worst thing since slavery. (Oct 2013)
Apologized for likening homosexuality to pedophilia. (Mar 2013)
Marijuana for medical use, but not for recreational use. (Jan 2014)
Homosexuality is a choice, but same-sex marriage is the law. (May 2015)
Covertly spy on government workers to make them work harder. (Jun 2015)
http://www.ontheissues.org/Ben_Carson.htm
Nolan chart puts him near the borders of centrist, rightwing, and libertarian
I really could not care less what the president believes regarding creationism vs. evolution. It has zero bearing on either his ability to be commander in chief of the military or to faithfully execute the law.
If the President doesn't accept Evolutionary Theory, then all our helicopters will disappear. Didn't you know that?
I care a bit. If he had good views on lots of other things, I wouldn't let it stop me voting for someone. But I am very wary of people who think that God has such a specific plan for the world and that they can know what that is. And being a creationist is a big red flag for that kind of thinking. You can't trust someone who goes around believing something simply because it says so in the Bible (or Koran or whatever). I'm not trying to bash all religion here. Most religious people (in the US anyway) seem to be capable of at least some critical assessment of the parts of their sacred texts that are most obviously merely ancient superstition.
You'd probably find kinship on I fucking love science where there aren't any silly superstitions just hard scientific facts. Facts that tell us we can't use carbon or the world will burn, and flood at the same time, and that science created the universe from the laws of physics, and the laws of physics were created from the universe. We know it's true because it's in a book from the enlightened.
Huh? What do you even think you are saying here? Your comment demonstrates a tremendous ignorance of what science is and a deep stupidity. What you describe is exactly the kind of thinking I was arguing against. It's no better from secular environmentalists than it is from religious people.
Did you think you were being clever or something? Do you honestly believe that there is no difference between believing that well tested laws of physics accurately describe the world and that everything in the Bible is literally true?
Drug warrior that wants to ban semi-auto, increase the categories of speech that have less protection, and schizo on free trade.
I think those are deal breakers.
Yup.
Which sadly, exposes the limitations of representing N-dimensional complex data via a cartesian graph.
At least if the good Dr. Caron is elected, America will, for the first time, have a descendant of American slaves in the White House.
To clarify: I mean as President.
"I've been a brain surgeon, so I can be President, too!"
"But as President, you'd have nothing to operate on."
OT:
As seen on TV just now:
"Tim Cook makes surprise appearance in NYC"
Unidentified trader: "Oooh, it's the Apple Fairy come to visit!"
I've made the argument multiple times that, as much the Purity of Not Holding Office is debated, I would like to Dr. Carson run as the GOP candidate in Maryland's open Senate seat. The way I see it, he's got a lot of the "vision thing" and broad connections across Baltimore and the state from his time at Johns Hopkins, and a candidate with focused interests and expertise (particularly one who is not a lawyer and is not corrupt) is ideally what one wants in a senator). Plus, while his primary residence may be now be in Florida, he's maintained a home in Baltimore County, so he's qualified without any games and he seems the best candidate for the GOP in both electability and overall quality.
Of course, I'm also the guy who's dreamed for twenty years of Steve Forbes running for the Senate here in New Jersey for similar sort of reasons. Rather than Senators running for the Imperial Presidency on one-issue campaigns, I'd love to see more strong one/few-issue candidates get into the Senate and help reinvigorate the institution (honestly why I think Rand Paul's campaign is a bit of a mistake at this point given the position that he's been building for himself in the chamber versus being a low-polling candidate in a crowded field).
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