Indiana AG Seeks Mandatory Jail Time for Johns

"Jail time should be understood" for those caught soliciting prostitution says Indiana AG Greg Zoeller.

Office of the Indiana Attorney General

Indiana's attorney general is using the recent conviction of Subway spokesman Jared Fogle on child porn charges to push mandatory jail time for anyone who solicits prostitution. What does one have to do with the other, you might ask? There's the reality answer (nothing), and then there's the drivel being pushed by people like Attorney General Greg Zoeller: that the demand for adult sex workers "fuels" child sexual exploitation somehow.

Nevermind the fact that most people seeking consensual sex with adults wouldn't dream of raping children; they're all deviants in Zoeller's mind, and should be dealt with accordingly. 

"We need something that sends the message, 'If caught, you will spend the night in jail, so don't risk your family, your wife, your children's respect or your job,'" said Zoeller, who is proposing the creation of a mandatory minimum sentencing requirement for those who attempt to pay for sex in any way. He is currently working with the state legislature to institute the tougher penalties, which may also include impounding sex buyers' cars. 

Right now, soliciting prostitution is a Class A misdemeanor in Indiana, punishable by up to one year in jail and a $5,000 fine. But Zoeller is upset that these penalties are rarely given. "Jail time should be understood" for solicitation, he said, though no word on how much jail time he thinks is appropriate. 

Expect to see more of this nonsense around the country, soon—the folks at the National Association of Attorneys General have been salivating at the chance to throw more people in our already-overcrowded jails urging states across the nation to stiffen up penalties for prostitution clients, and many have obliged. Florida last year became the first to stipulate a mandatory minimum sentencing requirement for solicitation. Anyone convicted of a second solicitation offense must be sentenced to at least 10 days in jail and attend classes where they will receive counseling for sex addiction and be reeducated to see the evils of consensual commercial sex. 

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

This is the one vice I thought would be sliding off the books first. But I guess prosecutors and legislators can buy sex with power instead of money, so what's their incentive to ease up?

[Hugh Akston]

More to the point, with the tide starting to turn on the War on Drugs, AsG need to ramp up the hysteria on another victimless crime that they don't have to do any actual work to enforce. Otherwise people might start to wonder what they get paid so much for in the first place.

[Just say Nikki]

Come on, Hugh. You know they have to continue the War on Fun somehow. I thought you'd appreciate that, of all people.

[Paul.]

If Hugh had his way, 'fun' would be a four-letter word.

[Los Doyers]

SVU is only three.

[jrom]

This attorney jackass has now proposed a 40 year mandatory minimum sentence for any adult who solicits sex from another adult, from what I hear on the web. He will only exempt politicians, police, prosecutors, judges, and all other government regulatory agents from this new law in Indiana. So, they can still pay for all the sex they want. And apparently, this jerk, can still pay for all the sex that he wants to pay for. And just look at his picture folks, he needs to pay for it!

[jrom]

Florida law is fucked up! They need to replace their state legislature with new members that have some common sense.

[Almanian - Micro Trumper]

"People named 'John' hardest hit"

[Copernicus would chip]

That has to be a Norm MacDonald punch line.

[Irish ?s ESB]

"where they will receive counseling for sex addiction"

Hilarious. You wanted to have sex! That's proof you're addicted!

[Los Doyers]

There is no such thing as a safe sex. Secondhand spooge kills.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

'If caught, you will spend the night in jail, so don't risk your family, your wife, your children's respect or your job,'"

Is it okay if the person has none of those things to worry about and doesn't want to bother with Tindr?

[Copernicus would chip]

"We need something that sends the message,"

Why?

[juris imprudent]

If that "message" was engraved into the barrel of a Louisville Slugger, I would be happy to deliver it to the head of Indiana's AG, as many times as necessary for him to learn that message sending is not why we have laws.

[Irish ?s ESB]

BTW, speaking of people convinced that sex with one thing will lead to totally unrelated sex with something else, the Washington Post ran a story about this woman who opposes sex robots on the grounds that it will somehow cause rapes or some shit. Example of her logic:

"In this paper I have tried to show the explicit connections between prostitution and the development and imagination of human-sex robot relations. I propose that extending relations of prostitution into machines is neither ethical, nor is it safe. If anything the development of sex robots will further reinforce relations of power that do not recognise both parties as human subjects."

Got that? Sex robots will make you think other people aren't really human. Hurr durr.

[Episiarch]

Did you notice what went wrong in that scene? Ordinarily, Billy would work hard to make money from his paper route. Then he'd use the money to buy dinner for Mavis, thus earning the slim chance to perform the reproductive act. But in a world where teens can date robots, why should he bother? Why should anyone bother? Let's take a look at Billy's planet a year later. Where are all the football stars? And where are the biochemists? They're trapped! Trapped in a soft, vice-like grip of robot lips. All civilization was just an effort to impress the opposite sex... and sometimes the same sex.

[Juvenile Bluster]

This will be shown at the required "Robo-Johns" school for those caught with sex robots, along with Electro-Gonorrhoea : The Noisy Killer.

[Just say Nikki]

It's weird...it's like some people don't think it would be a good idea for us all to be having holosex all day, every day...

[Episiarch]

Oh. My. God. Nicole is Lieutenant Barclay. It all makes sense now.

[Just say Nikki]

That poor persecuted mf.

[Episiarch]

Oh, of course you identify with him!

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

I strongly suspect that in the 23rd century the Federation has eliminated the orgasm to prevent people from spending all their time in the holodecks having orgies.

If the internet is for porn, then so would the holodeck.

[Doctor Whom]

Why not, since the Federation evidently reengineered human nature in other ways?

[Just say Nikki]

It's so much more perverse to care about it in a post-scarcity world. WHY ARE YOU EVER DOING ANYTHING EXCEPT GETTING HIGH, YOU SPACE IDIOTS?

[Irish ?s ESB]

I know. "We have limitless resources, so let's gambol around talking to aliens instead of having space orgies."

[Episiarch]

Because the AIs that run everything are prudes, Nicole. Don't you know anything?

[Zeb]

I always just assume that's what all the non-Star Fleet people do.

[mad.casual]

I strongly suspect that in the 23rd century the Federation has eliminated the orgasm to prevent people from spending all their time in the holodecks having orgies.

I just assumed that with all the 'violating the neutral zone' that went on, without even a snigger, that, kinda like astronauts today, they were rather self-selected for their roles as space men.

Everybody except maybe Yar and Ryker would've washed out of the holo-orgy industry as cadets.

[mad.casual]

If anything the development of sex robots will further reinforce relations of power that do not recognise both parties as human subjects.

I wonder what her opinions of vibrators and the Twilight (and spin off) novels are?

[Episiarch]

The government counts on vice/sin arrests and convictions for a good deal of revenue, especially local governments. Their take on things like DUIs and minor drug arrests is a major part of their revenue stream, combined with a constant stream of petty violations like expired registrations and parking tickets. While prostitution has long been something where the cops would hassle johns and prostitutes, and would fine them, surprisingly it never escalated it like it did with DUIs and drugs (which is to say, to the point of things like confiscation/asset forfeiture and wildly disproportionate fines and even jail time). But now, with the constant drumbeat of "human trafficking" and the like, scumbags like this prosecutor are seeing the moment to take prostitution to that next revenue generating level.

These people can smell when the public may be ready to accept absurdly draconian punishments that ultimately result in more revenue for the state. And when they smell that opportunity, they're going to try to pounce.

Remember, they always want more. Always. They are permanently ravenous for both more money for the beast, and for more power for themselves and their associates. It is the inherent parasitical nature of government and those who gravitate to it.

[Just say Nikki]

"We need something that sends the message, 'If caught, you will spend the night in jail, so don't risk your family, your wife, your children's respect or your job,'" said Zoeller

Okay and what if I don't have a wife and kids?

[Episiarch]

You don't have a wife and kids? What are you, gay? Or a serial killer?

[Charles Easterly]

Why not both?

It's Nikki.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Jesus is watching you, Nicole.

[mad.casual]

Since no one will miss you if you spend a night in jail, it's okay, right?

[mad.casual]

Yes means yes. Unless you pay for it. Without a license from the government.

[WTF]

My body, my choice?

[mad.casual]

Only when applied to obliterating the existence of another potential body.

[Doctor Whom]

Only when the right-thinking people would make the same choice.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I can tell from that guy's picture that he absolutely does NOT have a normal sex life.

I don't know if it's dogs, dead bodies, or what, but that dude is hiding something.

[Citizen X]

Definitely a dude with "how to get bloodstains out of clown costume" in his Google history.

[Another Phil]

That was beautiful.

[Jimothy]

Yeah, but to be fair to the guy, who doesn't?

[Just say Nikki]

He likes to think about how much his kids respect him while he's getting it on.

[Copernicus would chip]

I believe that particular style of moustache is known as the "cum catcher".

[Hugh Akston]

I thought that was all facial hair.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Hugh, naturally, is clean shaven. It's like a turtle shell down there.

[Hugh Akston]

Gotta make the carpet match the drapes.

[Copernicus would chip]

"I thought that was all facial hair."

I believe it only applies to facial hair surrounding the oral cavity: Moustache, goatee, van dyke, soul patch, etc.

[Irish ?s ESB]

http://www.in.gov/attorneygeneral/2963.htm

My God, that attorney general's article links to something called the Indiana's Not Buying It Campaign and it is fucking brilliant.

"Prostitution and commercial sex are not victimless crimes. Traffickers recruit young girls into prostitution through violence and manipulation; cutting them off from family and friends. The average age at which children in the United States first become victims of sex trafficking is 13. The average age of death of a person involved in prostitution is 34 and the most common cause of death is homicide."

Maggie McNeill has written thousands of words refuting both these arguments, but man do they have legs.

[Episiarch]

Yes, but note the extremely familiar hysteria-stirring language and hyperbole. Doesn't that sound a shitload like anti-drug propaganda? The same attempts to scare people regarding their children? The constant attempts to convince people that no matter how victimless the "crime" is, it isn't?

These people are neither intelligent nor creative. They know one way of doing this and they're falling back on it. Again.

[Citizen X]

They'd better not flaunt those legs, or they might get trafficked.

[Je suis Woodchipper]

he's a prosecutor. telling bullshit lies is his job. his only job.

[Zeb]

The average age at which children in the United States first become victims of sex trafficking is 13. The average age of death of a person involved in prostitution is 34 and the most common cause of death is homicide.

Both of those sentences may well be true in some sense, but say nothing at all about the life of the typical prostitute.

[kbolino]

Never mind that everything in that sentence is illegal. If we just make more laws, eventually people will stop breaking them.

[Charles Easterly]

"... stiffen up penalties...."

I suppose ENB just couldn't resist.

[Almanian - Micro Trumper]

OT: Your daily derp comment from NRO K WIlliamson article on Syrian refugees

Agent1220 ? 37 minutes ago Economic Libertarians your ideology has failed, accept it, or get out. Can't have a welfare state+open borders(Not to mention having currency/trade manipulators all over the world). Sure in an ideal world you're probably right, same with Communists.

Cause nothing SCREAMS "libertarian" like "welfare state"....derp.

But of course all libertarians agree on "open borders" *runs away and hides*

[Irish ?s ESB]

Given that Milton Friedman was making this same argument 30 years ago, I don't think that guy is telling us anything we don't already know.

[juris imprudent]

Libertarian love for the welfare state?

[blinks, cleans glasses]

I thought we were fairly split on borders but pretty united on opposing welfare. How can you fuck that up so thoroughly? Is there some cabal of Euro-libertarians giving us a bad name?

[Zeb]

"Get out"? Of where?

I can't remember is NRO the right-wing one or the left wing one? I honestly can't tell from that excerpt.

And no, (involuntary) communism isn't right in any world.

[kbolino]

Not to mention having currency/trade manipulators all over the world

WRECKERS! KULAKS!

Under the surface, all non-capitalists are the same.

[PapayaSF]

OT: Terrence Howard is insane.

Speaking with Rolling Stone, Howard appears less excited to talk about his new hit show Empire and more excited to detail his days off when he works on his new form of mathematics - Terryology. The actor spends up to 17 hours a day when he is not working cutting objects out of plastic and binding them together into shapes held together with cooper wire or magnets to help prove his theory. There are also crystals on some of the pieces as well as LED lights.

'Since I was a child of three or four, I was always wondering, you know, why does a bubble take the shape of a ball? Why not a triangle or a square?' he says.

[Irish ?s ESB]

"Howard spends much of the interview describing Terryology, the new form of math he has created that proves 1 x 1 = 2"

How on Earth did you leave that sentence out? It's hilarious.

Also:

"'I figured it out. If Pythagoras was here to see it, he would lose his mind. Einstein, too! Tesla!'
Howard says he began professing his belief in Terryology while at Pratt Institute in Brooklyn where he was studying chemical engineering, and eventually dropped out after a professor refused to agree with him.
'How can it equal one?' he asked the professor of the 1 x 1 equation.
'If one times one equals one that means that two is of no value because one times itself has no effect.
'One times one equals two because the square root of four is two, so what's the square root of two? Should be one, but we're told it's two, and that cannot be.'

'This is the last century that our children will ever have been taught that one times one is one. They won't have to grow up in ignorance,' Howard adds. "

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Episiarch]

Wait, Pratt has a engineering school? I thought Pratt was an art school only?

[Irish ?s ESB]

Maybe Terrence Howard wasn't even in engineering classes. Maybe he was in some painting course and wrongly believed himself to be a chemical engineer.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

That's the most likely explanation.

[Episiarch]

"I got an A in Hallucinating 101!"

[Caput Lupinum]

Pratt's engineering school closed in '93

[Episiarch]

Do you know when it opened? My mom went there in the late 60s and I've never heard her mention word one about engineering schools and the like.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Your mom never mentioned anything to me either.

[Episiarch]

She doesn't like to talk about that with clients.

[Caput Lupinum]

It was one of the original disciplines at the school. Here is an old NY Times article from when the decision to close the engineering school was made; it used to be one of their largest programs.
http://www.nytimes.com/1991/12.....neers.html

[juris imprudent]

Well if Howard is at all representative little wonder it closed.

[Zeb]

That's like those guys who think they can refute Einstein by confusing energy and momentum. Except dumber.
You can't prove things mathematically by constructing plastic models.

[Rasilio]

Um, if I have 2 piles of pennies with 2 pennies in each I have 1 - 2, 3-4.... 4 I have 4 pennnies

If I have 1 pile with 1 penny I have 1.... I have 1 penny

QED 1*1 = 1

That an adult cannot figure this out calls into question their sanity.

[Zeb]

And with just a little bit of mathematical sophistication you can see that by definition 1*x=x for any x. If that doesn't hold then you aren't dealing with unity.

[kbolino]

what's the square root of two? ... we're told it's two

Never mind your complete lack of geometric sense concerning squares, who the fuck told you the square root of two is two?

[LoneWaco]

I couldn't figure out how Downey Jr. fucked him out of $100m til I used Terryology.

[sarcasmic]

I was tempted to put that in the AM links. Dude if fucking nuts.

[sarcasmic]

*is*

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

He's been insane for a long time. Horrible actor too. The worst is when he plays a lawyer. I know lawyers are stupid, but he's far too dumb to play one. It sounds like a middle school play.

[Paul.]

I disagree, he's not a terrible actor. I've always thought he was an excellent actor. Which... probably explains the general insanity.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Now I know that you're terrible.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

As of last year, Lloyd's of London will no longer insure projects that he's involved in. He's tanked several of them by being a crazy asshole, and they got tired of paying out the policies.

[Je suis Woodchipper]

Sounds like that guy should be in prison for assault on several people.

[pan fried wylie]

why does a bubble take the shape of a ball

Because a sphere equally distributes forces resulting in a lowest-energy, and stable, configuration, right?

/armchairphysicist

[Rasilio]

Pretty much yea

[PapayaSF]

'I figured it out. If Pythagoras was here to see it, he would lose his mind. Einstein, too! Tesla!'

Howard says he began professing his belief in Terryology while at Pratt Institute in Brooklyn where he was studying chemical engineering, and eventually dropped out after a professor refused to agree with him.

'How can it equal one?' he asked the professor of the 1 x 1 equation.

'If one times one equals one that means that two is of no value because one times itself has no effect.

'One times one equals two because the square root of four is two, so what's the square root of two? Should be one, but we're told it's two, and that cannot be.'

[sarcasmic]

so what's the square root of two? Should be one, but we're told it's two

- 1.41

[Episiarch]

Not quite. The square root of two can be either negative or positive, there's no way to know.

[sarcasmic]

I was taking that many points away from poor Terrance.

[Zeb]

Or, there is no such thing as "the square root", only "a square root".

[Old Man With Candy]

The square root of two can be either negative or positive, there's no way to know.

That sounds very... transcendental.

[Idle Hands]

honestly that isn't even the most retarded part.

[Idle Hands]

Howard's earliest memory is of being in the womb, and his mother was driving to abort him when she hit a stoplight which she saw as a sign.

[Paul.]

Is Howard the guy that also postulated that matter has four* states?

Solid
Liquid
Gas
Powder

*plasma being the fourth state that no one talked about when I was a kid.

[Los Doyers]

And damn good TVs they are, at that.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I bet he has quite a bit of experience with powder.

That's where these 17 hour Terryology sessions come from.

[Rasilio]

There is way more than those 4 now.

States of Matter

[Antilles]

Guys who pay for sex are despicable. Why can't they just lie to and manipulate women into sex like a normal guy?

[sarcasmic]

Marriage doesn't count as paying for sex?

[Citizen X]

It does. Paying and paying and paying...

[Antilles]

Of course not! Just make sure her wedding ring is worth at least 3 months of your (gross) salary, and then wager half your stuff that she'll want to stay with you forever--even though there's a 50% chance she won't. Now, why would a guy resort to hookers when he can have all that?

[Just say Nikki]

Little-known fact: wives initiate 100% of divorces.

[Old Man With Candy]

In community property states, the percentage is higher.

[sarcasmic]

So when me and my mom came back from vacation and found divorce papers on the table, she initiated it?

[Old Man With Candy]

Yes, she did. Sorry, kid, your dad found out about us.

[Los Doyers]

I think it's time to change your handle.

[Old Man With Candy]

To "Homewrecker"?

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

There are many ways to wreck a home. Candy is just one way.

[Los Doyers]

I was talking to "sarcasmic" in light of Nikki's comment sailing right over his head. Your handle is fine.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

That's not how you serve papers. Sorry to break to to you, kid, but your parents are still married.

[Old Man With Candy]

That's easier for him to take than the discovery that his mom was a slut.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

50% chance?

Are you a bad judge of character?

[Antilles]

"Are you a bad judge of character?"

Evidently. That's why I no longer have a house.

[Old Man With Candy]

Rod Stewart: Instead of getting married again, I'm going to find a woman I don't like and just give her a house.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Ha! I know that woman! She still lives in town. Nice house, too.

[Paul.]

Rod Stewart: Instead of getting married again, I'm going to find a woman I don't like and just give her a house.

It's faster that way. Trust me.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Do I need to give a seminar? Jesus.

[TimothyZ]

I can't remember the comedian, but he made an interesting argument that Alimony was prostitution. "Woman love sex too. With alimony, like prostitution, you're paying the whore to leave."

[Zeb]

Marriage doesn't count as paying for sex?

No, because you have to pay whether or not you get any sex.

[mad.casual]

The problem is that prostitutes are being lied to and manipulated.

Married people are just lied to and manipulated equally.

[Belin]

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[AD-RtR/OS!]

Boy, is the Vice Squad going to have fun locking up all the politicians.

[rxc]

So, if you can be thrown into jail for paying for sex, does this mean that whenever you go out on a date and pay for dinner with the expectation that you will eventually score, you are committing a crime?

And, as one commenter postulated, does this make marriage a crime? After all, we know that guys think that marriage means unlimited sex, in return for supporting a woman for life.

[jrom]

Under most state laws and in federal court, it is a felony to take a date out for dinner with the expectation of scoring sex at some point in the future. Only government employees are exempt from this type of law.