Sex

Fraternity Writes, 'Hope Your Baby Girl Is Ready for a Good Time.' Anti-Sex Hysteria Ensues.

Sigma Nu's banner is protected speech. And it's not very offensive.

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Old Dominion University has vowed to punish a fraternity for hanging three banners from a balcony bearing the messages: "Rowdy and fun—hope your baby girl is ready for a good time," "Freshman daughter drop off," and "Go ahead and drop mom off too…".

The banners appeared over the weekend at the off-campus residence of several members of the Sigma Nu fraternity, where they were spotted by many a visitor to campus and immortalized on social media. ODU President John Broderick stridently condemned Sigma Nu's actions:

I am outraged about the offensive message directed toward women that was visible for a time on 43rd Street. Our students, campus community and alumni have been offended.

While we constantly educate students, faculty and staff about sexual assault and sexual harassment, this incident confirms our collective efforts are still failing to register with some. …

I said at my State of the University address that there is zero tolerance on this campus for sexual assault and sexual harassment. This incident will be reviewed immediately by those on campus empowered to do so. Any student found to have violated the code of conduct will be subject to disciplinary action.

Sigma Nu's national organization has already suspended the chapter pending an investigation, according to The Washington Post. "Any Fraternity member found to be responsible for this reprehensible display will be held accountable by the Fraternity," said a national Sigma Nu spokesperson.

Okay, but… is it actually a reprehensible display?

I'm usually in the position of defending extremely offensive speech on the grounds that it is protected by the First Amendment; when students express contemptible views, universities should rise to the challenge and try to educate them, not discipline them.

In this case, I struggle to grasp what was even so monstrous about the banners. Hope your baby is ready for a good time, oh, mom too! is certainly crude and in bad taste. But no specific person is being maligned, threatened, or disparaged. Some frat brothers are eager to have sex with girls—is this surprising? Have universities become so squeamish that students confessing their desire for sex are guilty of some kind of crime? The banners are suggestive and classless, but they're not obscene.

Associating the banners with sexual assault, as Broderick did in his statement, is a considerable exaggeration. Sigma Nu members certainly didn't threaten anyone with sexual assault; putting up some mildly suggestive signs does not constitute an act of violence. The banners don't even clear the sexual harassment bar. They aren't severe, pervasive, objectively offensive, or directed at anyone in particular.

ODU is a public university, and is obligated to extend First Amendment rights to its students. I struggle to see how these banners could possibly be classified as anything other than constitutionally-protected speech. Sigma Nu's national organization can be as hostile to crass humor as it likes, but the ODU administration has no authority to punish students for such a harmless prank.

I suspect Broderick's real concern in this matter is not preventing sexual violence—which has nothing to do with the banners—but protecting ODU's brand image. I would not be surprised to learn that administrative PR and marketing considerations undergird much of the recent neo-Victorian effort to deter students from having sex on campuses. 

Update: Hans Bader, a senior attorney at the Competitive Enterprise Institute and former Office for Civil Rights lawyer, writes that the 4th Circuit Court of Appeals upheld a fraternity's First Amendment right to engage in offensive speech in a somewhat analogous case, Iota XI Chapter of Sigma Chi Fraternity v. George Mason University.

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  1. you’ll never get women like that….signs should’ve said “freshman orientation starts here” or pretended to be a sorority and offer free tours or something. the worst part of this is these guys are in college and they have no common sense. how are they going to get laid in the real world? they’ll just become frustrated and then force themselves onto unsuspecting women later on and that’s how you get a rape epidemic and suddenly we can’t have nice things anymore!

    1. osh|8.24.15 @ 11:48PM|#
      “you’ll never get women like that….signs should’ve said “freshman orientation starts here” or pretended to be a sorority and offer free tours or something.”
      How about “free beer!”

    2. how are they going to get laid in the real world?

      They’re going to be those guys who honk their horns at women while waiting at stoplights. Assuming they aren’t already.

      In any case it seems likely that the banners were intended to recruit incoming males, not incoming females.

    3. They should have had signs reading “free boobs inspection inside” and it may have tricked many a woman concerned about her boob quality.

      1. Once the right defunds Planned Parenthood, many young women may fall prey to these rapists-in-waiting since all options for boob exams will have been taken away from them.
        -progtarded fuckhead

        1. Not unless TX decides there’s money to be made by licensing and taxing Boob Inspectors there… 🙂 /sarc.

          btw, reminds me of signs on campus long ago when I was there that read,
          “Party Tonight: Buster Hymen and His Swinging Organ.”

          Nobody batted an eye at ’em and that generation created most of Silicon Valley and the Tech Route around Boston.

          Go figure.

    4. it’s a fucking joke, just like university administration.

    5. it’s a fucking joke, just like university administration.

  2. Saw a “Moms Drink Free” sign at Ohio State this weekend.

    Best one yet: Girls party at Ohio U that said “Freshmen Boys: Our couches don’t pull out, but we hope you do.”

    1. It’s OK when young womyn make crude tasteless sex jokes. They’re just being “empowered” or something. When young men do it, it’s tantamount to sexual assault because…something something PATRIARCHY mumble mumble RAPE KULTURE.

  3. I said at my State of the University address that there is zero tolerance on this campus for sexual assault and sexual harassment.

    Oh, good. Glad to hear it. As soon as you’ve demonstrated one or the other, let’s hear about it. Until then, fuck off.

    *waits patiently*

    No, really. Off you fuck.

  4. I support their freedom, but that doesn’t mean they aren’t idiots.

    1. Uh, they’re college kids; what did you expect?

      1. I expect them to be educated, not have their childish behavior coddled by adults who know better.

        1. Flick|8.25.15 @ 12:47AM|#
          “I expect them to be educated, not have their childish behavior coddled by adults who know better.”
          I expect anyone posting here to be better educated than you.
          Fuck off.

        2. And what about the state of Primary education in this country would lead you to expect them to be educated adults, instead of old children slightly exposed to something resembling knowledge?

        3. … so you’ve never been a college freshman? Or were you one who was completely educated, socialized by wonderful parents and high-school peers and decisively “un-coddled”?

          What percentage of freshman classes do you think would meet those ‘measures’?
          Really?

          Naif!

  5. Seriously, what the pyrotechnical fuck is wrong with these guys? Are they so situationally unaware that they don’t think it will rain shit on them when they pull stunts like this?

    There’s plenty of fresh incoming tail every Fall, so why can’t they enjoy it instead of inflaming the Mother Superiors of all sexes that rum colleges these days?

    1. How Mr. Suave interprets reacting with disgust to their stupid signs as “anti-sex hysteria” is beyond me.

      1. Flick|8.25.15 @ 12:23AM|#
        “How Mr. Suave interprets reacting with disgust to their stupid signs as “anti-sex hysteria” is beyond me.”

        You should really read the article. You’ve already posted twice, suggesting you’re not real bright.
        Do you want to modify your post or just be accepted as an ignoramus?

      2. Finding the banners vuglar should not blind the school administration to the obvious fact that punishing the idiots who out them up is askin, nay, BEGGING to be sued. Indeed a cynic might wonder if the fraternity chapter in question was in financial difficulties.

        1. Snakes? Na bra, they’re ok financially.

      3. That’s because your retarded and obviously illiterate.

        1. Is there some term to describe the consistently poor construction of posts criticizing someone else’s grammar, spelling or literacy?

          Maybe we could call it “pulling a Loki”…

    2. Homple|8.24.15 @ 11:57PM|#
      “Seriously, what the pyrotechnical fuck is wrong with these guys? Are they so situationally unaware that they don’t think it will rain shit on them when they pull stunts like this?”

      So you are proposing self-censorship to satisfy those who would censor speech? How did you end up here?

      1. Basic manners is self-censorship?

        1. Flick|8.25.15 @ 12:30AM|#
          “Basic manners is self-censorship?”
          And you define “free speech” as that which satisfies your concept of “basic manners”?
          You’ve hit the full-pull; fuck off, slaver.

          1. I suppose you think that bakeries are required by the first amendment to make the frat cakes, too?

            1. Flick|8.25.15 @ 12:37AM|#
              “I suppose you think that bakeries are required by the first amendment to make the frat cakes, too?”
              There is stupid, and then REALLY stupid, and then it seems there’s Flick.
              Did your mommy tell you that made sense?

              1. You think the university is required to associate with them, so why not bakers too?

                1. Flick|8.25.15 @ 12:43AM|#
                  “You think the university is required to associate with them, so why not bakers too?”
                  Who in the hell do you think you’re dealing with? do you think me, or most of us here, are stupid enough to respond to that sort of idiotic false equivalence?
                  If you want to argue the point please find a way to add 50 points to your IQ score; so far you’ve proven to be whiny ignoramus who seems to be more worried about offending anyone than even forming a concept of free speech and why it has to be protected.
                  Oh, and fuck off.

                  1. If a DMV worker tells every customer to fuck off, does the first amendment mean the (taxpayer funded) DMV can’t discipline or fire that employee?

                    1. What a fucking ignoramus!
                      Get lost.

                    2. The students are not employees of the schoolschool.

                      A more appropriate framing is what can the DMV do to a citizen wearing a subjectively offensive T-shirt.

                2. The university is required to fulfill whatever contractual obligations they entered into when they accepted these boys’ tuition money.

                  -jcr

                3. The University is a State University. It says so in the article. As such it is far more constrained in what it can do regarding censoring the students.

      2. Not that horrible to prefer a little decorum. No one here is arguing that they should be fined or suspended.

        I mostly lurk in the comments, but I have noticed you more than most are very quick to fail people on your libertarian purity test and tell them to fuck off. Often these people have said nothing to you, or definitely nothing offensive. Maybe try presenting a well-thought argument once in awhile would be more effective. By the way, this isn’t me trying to censor you, it’s me telling you to quit being such a dick.

        1. Sevo’s our resident Tourette’s case.

          1. I thought that was… SHIT FUCKING PISS OUT YOUR ASS FUCK A DUCK SHIT… me.

        2. “”Not that horrible to prefer a little decorum””

          Yawn.

          Go play tea-party with Jezebel.

    3. One of them is pre-law and hoping to pad his resume with defending free speech?

    4. I went to Rum College. Didn’t graduate.

  6. Sounds like something Donald Trump would do.

    1. You’ve totally convinced me now! Those frat boys just deserve everything bad that comes their way!

      1. “Deserve’s” got NOTHING to do with it….

  7. I remember back when the Greek system represented the square and stodgy sphere of campus culture. Now with their same ol’ Taco Tuesdays, Pimp and Ho socials, and “drop mom off too” banners they’re cool, outsider and edgy.

    1. And when was this, exactly? Because I went through college in the ’80’s, and the frats were considered drunken sex-maniacs than.

      1. You missed the late ’60s, too… I was there as the Flower Children arrived and the beer-swilling fraternities literally imploded from lack of frosh interest… It was an amusing time… even at an engineering school!

        Of course, I was a Junior by then, and the frosh girls interested in sex outnumbered the frosh guys interested in beer, so times were pretty good for me…

        🙂

    2. “Animal House” was not how fraternities were supposed to work?

      1. The other houses in Animal House were how frats were supposed to work.

  8. “…hanging three banners from a balcony bearing the messages: “Rowdy and fun?hope your baby girl is ready for a good time,” “Freshman daughter drop off,” and “Go ahead and drop mom off too?”.”

    And Mom jumped out or the car, right?
    That’s GREAT!

    1. Dad looks at mom and says, “For this we cosigned a small yacht worth of loans and took out a second mortgage”?

      1. If Dad doesn’t remember what Dad did in college. And Mom’s smiling, since she’s remembering what *she* did.
        And both are lying through their teeth to the kids…

        1. Ah, the gonzo porn view of college.

          Lemme guess…. 8th grader, hoping against hope that this frat will still be around when you reach college age?

          1. Flick|8.25.15 @ 12:34AM|#
            “Lemme guess…. 8th grader, hoping against hope that this frat will still be around when you reach college age?”
            Lemme guess; asshole lefty who finds CU an affront to humanity.
            Now, I asked once and got bullshit; what is it that ignoramuses find confusing about free speech?

            1. The only person who’s an ignoramus about free speech here is you.

              1. Flick|8.25.15 @ 12:40AM|#
                “The only person who’s an ignoramus about free speech here is you.”
                Yes.a because ignoramuses like you define what ‘free speech’ means, right?
                Fuck off.

        2. Dad remembers what he did in college and reflects how a couple of things could have fucked up the rest of his life had they gone just a bit more wrong.

          1. Or how he wouldn’t make it through 4 years today without being sent before the campus sex inquisition at least once for having a drunken hook-up.

        3. Dad isn’t smiling because he remembers what Mom did in college…

  9. Glad to know campus controversies continue apace.

    1. Pretty sure it’s spelled “idiocies”.

      1. Nontroversies. These are nontroversies.

  10. And, legions of the eternally aggrieved have this gnawing fear that their daughters might actually have a good time… Punch and pie….

  11. While I’m skeptical of applying the first amendment to the voluntary relationship between college and student, even public colleges, it does rub me the wrong way that the uni thinks they can control what students do off-campus.

    However, these guys do appear to be assholes, and the First Amendment absolutely doesn’t apply to the national fraternity’s actions against the ODU chapter. If you can’t see what’s reprehensible about the “speech”, perhaps you’re the one who needs someone to rise to the challenge and try to educate you.

    1. Assholes need love too, Craig…

      1. Ah, I recall a craig in mass being similarly mentally challenged.

        1. Usually more argumentative, but, yeah, equally stupid.

    2. “If you can’t see what’s reprehensible about the “speech”, perhaps you’re the one who needs someone to rise to the challenge and try to educate you.”

      What’s reprehensible is your ignorant post.
      What is is that ignoramuses don’t get about free speech? Please educate us!

      1. What I don’t get is how freedom of speech implies freedom from criticism.

        1. Flick|8.25.15 @ 12:31AM|#
          “What I don’t get is how freedom of speech implies freedom from criticism.”
          Help yourself; you’re welcome to criticize all you please, but I’m guessing you didn’t see this:
          “Old Dominion University has vowed to punish a fraternity for hanging three banners from a balcony bearing the messages:”
          So, again, fuck off, slaver.

          1. Breaking off association is a form of criticism.

            1. Flick|8.25.15 @ 12:39AM|#
              “Breaking off association is a form of criticism.”
              Punishing an organization, by a state-funded school, is censoring free speech, you fucking ignoramus.

              1. Not when the punishment is noncoercive (e.g. breaking off association). I doubt the administrator is talking about flogging the fraternity members or putting them in jail.

                1. Flick|8.25.15 @ 12:45AM|#
                  “Not when the punishment is noncoercive (e.g. breaking off association).”

                  So reading isn’t one of your skills?
                  “ODU is a public university, and is obligated to extend First Amendment rights to its students”
                  Oh, and fuck off.

                  1. That’s Mr. Suave’s opinion.

                    1. Flick|8.25.15 @ 12:55AM|#
                      “That’s Mr. Suave’s opinion.”
                      Uh, no, shitbag, that’s fact.

                    2. I’m guessing Flick here is unfamiliar with the concept of “facts”, only FEELZ.

                      He FEELZ that freedom of speech is a good thing … but he also FEELZ that frat bros are assholes, so fuck ’em.

                2. “Not when the punishment is noncoercive (e.g. breaking off association). I doubt the administrator is talking about flogging the fraternity members or putting them in jail.”

                  I have to agree with Sevo. Flick is offensively stupid. Punishments are by definition coercive. They are intended to coerce people into changing behavior.

    3. If you can’t see what’s reprehensible about the “speech”, perhaps you’re the one who needs someone to rise to the challenge and try to educate you.

      Go flick yourself, you groveling toadie.

      -jcr

    4. Ok, let’s examine this. I’m sure that this campus has been host to at least one performance of THE VAGINA MONOLOGUES. So, this college is fine with (and probably actually sponsored) vulgar AND EXPLICIT speech that goes along with the dominant Liberal Intellectual narrative, but has hysterics over vulgar but non-explicit speech that doesn’t.

      See the problem?

  12. I’m confused – is Sigma Nu’s national organization “neo-Victorian”? Because Mr. Suave mentions how they too may be disciplining their rogue chapter.

    1. And what’s with the casual Victorian Era bashing? Sherlock Holmes, sideburns, Dracula, abolishing slavery…and even some really nasty porn.

      1. Tight-lacing and the origins of all contemporary fetish porn. Throw in legal drugs and prostitution, it’s a veritable “libertine moment”. Kinda like the 1970s only with steam and no antibiotics.

  13. We had an annual party called Oyster Bay where we’d build a rickety fence and hang various signs like “World’s Best Seamen” and “Don’t laugh your daughter is probably inside”.

  14. You know what we haven’t have enough of lately? Videos like these:

    “Five black people pose questions that open dialogue around white privilege, appropriation and more.”

    Judging from the video, I suspect the “dialogue” would go something like this:

    “Why is is that your behavior annoys me so much?”

    [any answer other than a grovelling confession of racism]

    “You see, that’s what I’m talking about, you people piss me off!”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/…..0aa3abb711

    1. 24 Questions Black People Need White People To Answer, Like Right Now
      BuzzFeed’s new video totally nails it.

      COLLECTIVIZE, ASSUME OPINION OF COLLECTIVE, TALK LIKE TEENAGER

      While we’re not quite at Idiocracy levels, I think its not long before we get, “OMG LITERALLY LIKE SOMETHING HAPPENED IN ISRAEL AND IT WILL BLOW YOUR MIND” in the New York Times

      it just gets better. one of the 24 questions highlighted

      “Do y’all really think Miley is the one who created twerking? Really?”

      I doubt “miley who”? would be considered an acceptable answer… nor, “is ‘Twerking’ something you think should be highlighted with great pride as an accomplishment of Your People”? furthering the Healing Process.

      1. – “Do y’all really think Miley is the one who created twerking? Really?”

        That’s two questions.

        /pedant

  15. The frat should have also hung a sign that said “fuck you if you can’t take a joke”, and “try punishing us for this, and we’ll walk away with a couple million from your endowment, you Puritan motherfuckers.”

    -jcr

  16. Seriously, not trolling or anything – what would be your reaction if your kid made, *and kept* a resolution not to have extramarital sex? Would you be relieved or disappointed?

    1. It depends on how it worked out. If his/her virginity caused him/her to rush into what turns out to be a loveless marriage and a life of misery, then I would be disappointed.

      OTOH if they were happy, then I would be happy too.

    2. Now ask about ?abortion?, Eddie!

    3. Why the automatic assumption that refraining from sex is roughly equal to sleeping on a bed of nails? Or are you including masturbation?

    4. My mother is freaked out that all her children aren’t interested in casual sex. Couldn’t really tell you why.

    5. I wouldn’t mind at all. He or she could have very many good reasons for doing it.

      I’d mind more if my child married at 18 and started having babies right away. That’s a life choice that’s harder to undo or reflect on later.

    6. I’m the father of a daughter. Got ten more years before I have to worry about her becoming the “fresh meat” for assholes her first day of college, but to answer your question, if my daughter in 6 years or so came to me and said she wanted to keep a resolution not to have sex before marriage, I would tell her that the piece of paper isn’t what’s important, what’s important is having sex where you are treated with respect and can respect yourself afterwards. An unwise woman can debase herself by marrying for financial security a guy who sees her as nothing more than a trophy, and a wise woman can remain unmarried while having fulfilling sex with a man who is considerate and treats her as a person worthy of respect, not an object.So there is a pretty broad continuum between chaste wedding-night-virgin and dormitory good-time-girl, just as there is a broad spectrum between people getting to express any vile thought without even social consequences, and jack-booted quashing of any independent thought. This story lands somewhere in the middle, something Robby Souve and the chicken-littles crying “Freedom” like they think they’re Mel Gibson in Braveheart don’t seem to understand. (not you, your question was a good one)

      1. So, you wouldn’t be saying, “Meg, you’re what we call a ‘practice girl’.”

  17. Coincidentally, I have the same sign out next to the elementary school.

    1. And just like the “Warning: Registered Sex Offender” sign, I’ll bet it keeps them off your lawn!

      1. It makes my Molestation Van ever so much more tempting.

    2. And just like the “Warning: Registered Sex Offender” sign, I’ll bet it keeps them off your lawn!

      1. But not the squirrels, though.

  18. OK, our house was across the street from the President’s residence. We used to get on the PA and announce, “Mrs. [redacted], your bong hit is ready….” during our WILD fucking parties on Wednesday nights (“Why Wed night? Because no one ELSE parties on Wed night!”).

    Yeah, we were juvenile and assholish. It were fun.

    My son is now in the fraternity next door (AKA “The Enemy”). Guess what – same shit goes on, albeit under a MUCH-heavier jackboot then we experienced. I’m so proud that they keep on saying “FUCK THE ADMINISTRATION!” That’s part of growing up.

    Flick – you were either a fucking Gam, or you were FCA GDI and ratted on your dormmates who smoked pot, weren’t you? And you’re the person who turns in your neighbor to the Association for keeping an unauthorized camper in their driveway, aren’t you?

    What a miserable, overly-circumscribed life you lead, you putrid piece of shit. Hope you don’t accidentally find the business end of a woodchipper, you fucktarded authoritarian Victorian cunt.

    1. In Libertopia is there no room between “anarchist” and “dictator”?

      1. No! Next question please.

        1. In your run for President, how do you decide who gets the abortions and who gets the tiny American flags?

          Asking for a friend…

          1. Doesn’t matter. They’ll all be to busy with Project Archimedes to worry about either.

            1. When I had said I had a solar energy plan, no one saw a death ray coming! AHAHAHAHAHA *coughs violently*

          2. The women I impregnate will get the abortions, for the good of humanity you see, the flags will be thrown to the mob and who(m)ever is scrappy enough to get one, keeps one.

      1. I believe you are correct

  19. What were the signs on the Anti-Sex League chapter house?
    “Not Gettin’ None Here!”
    “Embrace the Shame!”

  20. Tulpa: gigantic loser or gigantickest loser?

    1. Neither one. The rest of us are the biggest losers for continuing to respond to him.

  21. I live near ODU. This is about what i would expect.

    Q. How many ODU students does it take to change a light bulb?

    A. Three. One to change the bulb, and two to figure out how to get high off of the old one.

  22. Unless I missed one, there was not a single offensive banner. It was all what used to be called good fun. When we used to believe it was possible to have fun.

    1. No kidding.

      I read them as having a little self-mockery, myself, of the hypersexualized party-boy frat image.

  23. Aw, fuck that…oh, wait…uh….

  24. Seems to me that the college should embrace these signs as a warning to new gals on campus to stay away from that house unless they want enjoy that kind of attention. Seemed like a bit of a public service to me.

    Glad I’m not in college anymore – these kids cannot reason anything through without the administration butting their noses in.

  25. If you can’t make sex jokes and get laid, what’s the point of joining a frat?

  26. “I’m usually in the position of defending extremely offensive speech “

    (groan)

    I think he means “i didn’t throw anyone under a bus recently”

  27. Yeah, those banners are actually pretty offensive. The fact that it doesn’t target individual is completely irrelevant.

    1. Wow. OMG, like wow.

    2. Maybe if there was any reason to think of them as anything but a joke.

  28. My alma mater is a small college in the midwest. The “old campus” area still has foundations of long gone buildings and sidewalks that lead to nothing but lintel stones that say things like Science Building. Kind of a relic of the past.

    Yet when my fraternity lost it’s charter they tore the house down, tore up the sidewalk, removed a stone wall and basically turned the area into a nice flat lawn with no trace that a house had ever stood there. They basically plowed under the Lambda Chi house and salted the earth.

    1. nothing but lintel stones that say things like Science Building.

      Hey, that’s high art. A found-object metaphorical sculpture of the condition of private colleges today! Maybe they can build a museum around it so future idiocrats can walk in and wonder why they came to visit an empty warehouse.

  29. I chuckled. So I guess I didn’t find it all that offensive. Even if I thought it were, that wouldn’t change the calculus about whether a person should say it.

    1. “So I guess I didn’t find it all that offensive. “

      “”Well, then, you’re just wrong because someone else did””

      /very sophisticated journalist

  30. Does Old Dominion have a working relationship with the local Planned Parenthood?
    Now, that would be obscene.

  31. “In this case, I struggle to grasp what was even so monstrous about the banners… Some frat brothers are eager to have sex with girls — is this surprising?”
    .
    TO the liberal mind, the idea of men wanting to have sex IS monstrous. Only women are allowed to have wants (or needs). Men are expected to simply provide for those wants and needs. So those frat boys need to shut up and get good jobs to support those girls later on (if they ever decide to lower themselves to marrying a man), and be the perfect passive partner if a girl decides SHE wants sex with them. And when they aren’t doing those two things they need to climb back into their stasis chamber until a girl wants something from them.

    1. I think that’s the radical feminist mind you are thinking of.

    2. As a woman, I honestly have no problem with the notion that you exist simply to provide for my sexual wants and needs.

      I allow you to please me.

  32. At least when my chapter had their charter pulled they had done something truly bad (accidentally burned the crap out of a pledge). This is pretty tasteless, but nothing that couldn’t be considered harmless fun by anyone who isn’t a committed scold and SJW.

  33. Once again, Reason comes in with an incoherent response to this sort of non-event.

    First of all, Robby writes, “Have universities become so squeamish that students confessing their desire for sex are guilty of some kind of crime?”

    Where, tell me, is someone being accused of a crime besides in the comment section of some liberal blog?

    Second of all, the administrator said, “Any student found to have violated the code of conduct will be subject to disciplinary action.”

    Seriously, what part of that statement amounts to an attack on free speech? He did not say that they violated the code of conduct and will be subject to disciplinary action, only that any student who did would be! That is tantamount to a law enforcement officer announcing that any person found breaking the law would be charged with a crime! And then Robby rushes to provide an arbitrary defense for no rational reason.

    There was no criticism of any aspect of the code of conduct that would have tangible effects on any student’s freedom. There was only criticism of how a particular group responded, their response being totally within the bounds of their own rights to free thought and speech.

    1. “I said at my State of the University address that there is zero tolerance on this campus for sexual assault and sexual harassment. This incident will be reviewed immediately by those on campus empowered to do so.”

      Accused of sexual assault? Perhaps not in so many words. But equated with sexual assault? Undoubtedly. The Administration is trying very hard to stomp out this speech, by begging the question of its being harassment and against the University’s code. Your defense of this barely-disguised attempt to stamp out crude but harmless pranks is way more dishonest than anything you’ve accused Robby of doing.

      1. “Your defense of this barely-disguised attempt to stamp out crude but harmless pranks” – Ah, fear the jackboot stomping on… pranks? Sorry, I am not convinced.

        As a former member of a national fraternity at a large public university who has participated in various pranks, only a moron would not expect some sort of disciplinary response from the administration over doing something like this. I graduated in 2009, and there was nothing different then.

        I think this prank was lame. Undoubtedly, this would have drawn a response from my national fraternity and my school’s fraternity association. I don’t know what the school itself would have done, but it would probably have taken away some of the slack it gave us in regards to parties and other on-campus events. As Robby points out, other cases like these have been decided in favor of the speaker. There is no reason to doubt that will again happen here.

        It is just strange that Reason chooses to over-represent these type of non-stories specifically tailored to create an illusion of repressive liberals destroying free speech across the nation. Yes, I know that is the go-to narrative of so many people in the press right now. I know it sells books (See: Kirsten Powers). No, I don’t think all these random anecdotes prove there is anything so sinister occurring, and neither do the anecdotes about these random barely-accredited school appending a list of “acceptable words” which no student is ever going to actually read.

        1. “f non-stories specifically tailored to create an illusion of repressive liberals destroying free speech across the nation.”

          Yeah, that totally isn’t happening and its all just made-up.

        2. “these random barely-accredited school(s)”

          “IRE surveyed 437 schools for this report and found that more than 55 percent maintain severely restrictive, “red light” speech codes?policies that clearly and substantially prohibit protected speech. Last year, that figure stood at 58.6 percent; this is the seventh year in a row that the percentage of schools maintaining such policies has declined.”

          of those “red light” speech-coded schools you have about half the Ivy league, the entirety of the University of California system, and a sizable chunk of the most ‘prestigious’ small liberal arts schools

          Lest this seem too one-sided = here’s Eric Posner arguing Orwellian control of student speech is necessary because they’re helpless children

          1. (3) I was a Pike, graduated in 1998. We were no PC angels, shoot, on Bid Day we’d set up lawn chairs along Sorority Row and watch the freshmen girls run screaming to the houses they got their bids to, and we called it the “Pig Run” – amongst ourselves. We didn’t shout out anything derogatory at the girls, and we certainly didn’t put out any banners. Anyone who tried that sort of thing wouldn’t have to worry about the university or Nationals, they would have their own brothers kicking their ass, and the scorn of every other house as well. Whether we were always the most shining examples of it or not, even the skeeviest Houses at SMU in the 90s liked to believe they were gentlemen, certainly wanted the sororities to believe they were gentlemen, and didn’t tolerate lewd public behavior in front of sororities, parents, or the rest of the community.

    2. (1)Strongly agree with Feiel, both his initial post and his followup. Some fraternity members display some pretty crass stuff. Their Nationals, deciding they have violated the standards of gentlemanliness that they voluntarily agreed to adhere to when they joined, takes action. University says it is going to investigate the matter to determine if the students violated the code of conduct they voluntarily agreed to when they enrolled. The fraternity’s Nationals may decide to revoke the chapter’s privilege to associate with the national organization, and the university may or may not do anything at all, but the worst they will do is ask those students to leave, they aren’t sending anyone to a gulag.

    3. (2) I totally believe that an individual person should be free to express themselves, even offensively, without being penalized by their school, as long as they are not on school grounds or taking part in a school-related event, or representing the school or representing themselves as students of the school when making that offensive speech. These students, however, have trampled into a grey area. Their speech was deliberately targeted at people participating in the University’s move-in day. In that way alone they could be said to be participating in a school sponsored event, and a reasonable person would assume that they are students. Their behavior as assumed associates at this school at this school-sponsored event could be argued to cause real damage to the school’s reputation in a way that was not legitimate criticism of the school, which could justify the school terminating its relationship with the students.

    4. (3) I was a Pike, graduated in 1998. We were no PC angels, shoot, on Bid Day we’d set up lawn chairs along Sorority Row and watch the freshmen girls run screaming to the houses they got their bids to, and we called it the “Pig Run” – amongst ourselves. We didn’t shout out anything derogatory at the girls, and we certainly didn’t put out any banners. Anyone who tried that sort of thing wouldn’t have to worry about the university or Nationals, they would have their own brothers kicking their ass, and the scorn of every other house as well. Whether we were always the most shining examples of it or not, even the skeeviest Houses at SMU in the 90s liked to believe they were gentlemen, certainly wanted the sororities to believe they were gentlemen, and didn’t tolerate lewd public behavior in front of sororities, parents, or the rest of the community.

    5. (4) Now as a father of a daughter, I can say if Robby Souve doesn’t now understand why the Sigma Nu banners are unsettling, I hope he will if he has a daughter. There is a predatory subtext to the message, of these man-children salivating over young, inexperienced girls on the first day they left their parents care. And “drop them off here” like they are objects to be used for the pleasure of these jackals. And I don’t buy the “it was obviously just a joke” line. Yes, I know they didn’t really expect parents to actually drop their daughters off there, but it shows the kind of mindset they have. They are like that guy who tells n****r jokes, but then says “hey, it’s just a funny joke, I’m not really racist.” There is a poem I learned – from my pledge trainer, in fact – that goes:
      Be careful of your thoughts, for your thoughts become your words;
      Be careful of your words for your words become your deeds;
      Be careful of your deeds, for your deeds become your habits;
      Be careful of your habits, for your habits become your character;
      Be careful of your character for your character becomes your destiny.

  34. These guys are performing a public service by self-identifying.

    Now, as a parent of a female freshman, I can simply point at the house and say, avoid that building with the rude signs. It is, no doubt, filled with cads and bounders.

    But if they are forbidden to have rude signs, young women may wander into the house unawares.

    1. Yeah, it’s good when people are allowed to openly display their weird ideas and personality problems. That enables the rest of us to make better, more informed choices.

    2. You would think that, but in the real world the guys in that frat are likely the ones most successful in attracting the girls to “entertain”.

  35. It’s hard being a Delta these days.

  36. Had to search some to find a picture :
    twitter.com/ nerdbaitplus3/status/635166856882618368/photo/1

  37. Over and over, the point is driven home. IF you value freedom, STOPPING GIVING THESE LEFT WING PC COLLEGES MONEY!

    Too many people donate to their “alma mater,” based on a hazy recollection of their halcyon college experiences. Whatever you remember — real or sanitized — ain’t what’s happening on almost ALL of today’s campuses — public and private.

    Stop funding these anti-freedom, anti-American, totalitarian-oriented, brainwashing reeducation camps! Target your donations to nonprofit groups that support freedom.

    Perhaps more important, revise your charity donations in your wills and trusts to fund institutions that support the liberties and Western classical liberal values that at one time supposedly were the standard at American colleges and universities.

    I have. I’ve shifted my donations and my charitable remainder trust beneficiaries (a modest trust, to be sure) to the nonprofits defending liberty — Heritage, CATO, REASON, Institute for Justice, etc.

  38. No sense of humor! People are too serious about things! What type of idiot would have taken thee banners seriously? Really?!!

  39. Classless, tasteless, yes. But are the words on the signage protected by the First Amendment? ODU is a private university so don’t they have autonomy over what is and isn’t considered free speech?

  40. Get your mind out of the gutter, you rodent.
    Seems like a perfectly innocent welcoming message to me.
    Sheesh!

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