VID: How RuPaul and Drag Race Is Making Us All More Free

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"With Liberty and Drag For All! What We Saw at RuPaul's First Ever DragCon," produced by Alexis Garcia and Paul Detrick. About 4 minutes. Original release date was May 18, 2015 and original writeup is below.

"What drag is is a celebration of the fact that each and every one of us is different," says Fenton Bailey, executive producer of RuPaul's Drag Race, a reality competition show which airs on the Logo network. "But rather than something that divides us and makes us unhappy and victimizes us, actually it's a cause for celebration."

Over 14,000 people flocked to the Los Angeles Convention Center last weekend for the inaugural RuPaul's DragCon—a drag convention put on by RuPaul and World of Wonder production company. The convention featured appearances by past and present stars of the Drag Race show, as well as panels and a key note speech from Mama Ru herself. 

"When people ask me what does drag mean to me I say it's total liberation and freedom of expression," says Kennedy Davenport, a contestant on this season's Drag Race competition.  

The once marginalized art form is a great example of a self-reliant community that has its own language, leaders, and support network. And now thanks to the efforts of RuPaul and the hit show, drag is pushing into the mainstream. 

"I attribute so much of this to RuPaul's singular genius," says Bailey. "The very first time Randy [Barbato] and I saw RuPaul we said, 'This motherfucker is going to be a star.' And then it was really just waiting for the rest of the world to catch up."

Approximately 4 minutes. 

Produced by Alexis Garcia and Paul Detrick. Camera by Detrick. Music by Jason Shaw and Marco Trovatello. Thumbnail photo credit: World of Wonder. 

Scroll down for downloadable versions and subscribe to Reason TV's YouTube Channel to receive automatic updates when new material goes live. 

NEXT: Ireland overwhelmingly votes to legalize same-sex marriage

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  1. “If there is any hope”, wrote Winston, “it lies in the drag queens”.

    1. No fucking way Winston ever wrote that. Oh, ooh? that Winston.

      1. Throw a complaint on the end to make it more believable.

        1. Is this the libertarian moment?

        2. Is this the libertarian moment?

        3. Is this the libertarian moment?

          1. Well, maybe a couple of ’em.

          2. It won’t be the libertarian moment until all men wear dresses to show how different they are. Or some other incoherent bullshit along those lines.

            1. Utility kilts, Cis, utility kilts. With a Leatherman and a socket set and a batch of blue face paint in each and every pocket!

  2. Schadenfreud Alert:

    Rod Dreher is completey melting down over Ireland voting to legalize same sex marriage.

    The Gay Rights Revolution in Ireland

    1. TL;DR
      I was too busy drinking IPAs.

      1. I have recently taken up drinking alcohol again. Please provide me with two IPAs that I must try (and do it fast).

        1. Take your pick:

          Heavy Seas- Loose Cannon/Black Cannon
          Sweet Water IPA
          Red Brick-Hop Lanta
          Terrapin- Hopsecutioner
          Dogfish head-60 minute
          Shock Top-Wheat IPA
          Founders- Centennial IPA
          Abita-Jackamo

          1. Thanks! I needed a good starter list.

          2. Yes, Dogfish head-60 minute

            or Sculpin, if you can find it. I have one between my warm thighs right now.

            1. We actually just got Ballast Point down here a few months ago. Haven’t had a chance to try it yet.

              1. I came across it by chance. I had no idea it was so highly regarded: http://www.beeradvocate.com/be…..199/29619/

            2. Thanks. I just want to cut down on the trial and error if I can.

              1. If you want to be a huge snob, track down some of the good stuff from Russian River.

                1. Lend him your tent so he can camp out for Pliny the Younger.

                  1. No tent. I don’t wait for beer, it waits for me.

                    1. Anchor Liberty Ale, the original IPA that helped start a resurgence of beer In this land.

          1. Do I detect a stout drinker?

            1. I drink just about anything but IPAs. I like it dark…I like it light…I hate it bitter.

        2. Harpoon

        3. Ballast Point – Sculpin

          Stone – Enjoy By

      2. Drinking at work?

        Or posting from home?

          1. Playa never posts from home, when he’s home he spends time with his family. He wouldn’t ignore them for an online family! Any appearance that he posts here all day is really explained by the time difference between the West Coast and EST, he’s at work see.

            1. You are an obsessed stalking idiot. You know that, right?

              1. You’re pathetically tribal. Funny you never express similar concerns all those weeks Playa and his buddy Warty commented on my every post all day and urged others to ignore me, or when he asks when I’m graduating or what my parents do, etc. pathetically tribal.

                1. You’re pathetically tribal.

                  HOWA HOWA HOWA HOWA HOWA, slips, falls, hits head on rock.

                    1. Francisco d’Anconia|5.23.15 @ 10:03PM|#
                      “Too much peyote.”

                      You’re entirely too kind; too much stupid.

            2. Didn’t take long for Bo to go Bo, did it?
              First post looks like 9:17; full asshole by 9:41!
              Hint to anyone who presumes otherwise: if Bo makes what looks like a reasonable comment, it is either a mistake or bait. IOWs, if you think Bo might be different this time, you are mistaken. Bo is an asshole and an insufferable twit and nothing will change that.

              1. Sevo opening on other people being a$$holes. It’s beyond pots and kettles, it’s like a black hole calling something black.

                1. This is like the best roast ever!

                  Bo, I just want to hangout with you! You seem so fun.

                  1. Glad I could make your day Crusty. You could do me a solid back if you could control the weather and get these Cards and Royals back on the field. Why in the world would a sport that has to stop playing if it rains not all be playing in inside stadiums by now?

                    1. Bo, I don’t know why we’re arguing when we should be celebrating

                      Congratulations, Bo Cara Esq.!

                    2. Not now Playa Jr., daddy’s talking with his friends on the computer!

                    3. I gave my son a task. Go through these pictures and find somebody who has trouble making friends.

                      He has really good intuition.

                      Weird, I don’t see your jewish girlfriend anywhere.

                    4. I say he’s the fat one with the neck like a bullfrog. He looks like the perfect mix of repulsive, oblivious, and arrogant.

                    5. Could be. Bo definitely has terrible hair, that’s a given.

                    6. Nah, not ugly enough, Francisco. Remember, to quote the late Shannon, “he couldn’t find pussy in a whore house.”

                    7. What are you talking about, idiot? He has a Jewish girlfriend. JEWISH. GIRLFRIEND.

                    8. Jewesses be cray, but not cray enough to date such a tedious unbearable shitstain.

                    9. Warty|5.23.15 @ 11:08PM|#
                      “What are you talking about, idiot? He has a Jewish girlfriend. JEWISH. GIRLFRIEND.”

                      I’m guessing Russian, and it’s not really a ‘friendship’ yet; he’s been sending emails and money and she promises she really looks like the photo and she hopes he can meet her in Birobidzhan this summer.
                      So he’s lying to her about being a law student, and she’s lying to him about being this lovely Russian woman; perfect!

                    10. It isn’t that Bo can’t get laid because he’s ugly. Bo doesn’t get laid because he’s an asshole with no social skills.

                      That guy SCREAMS virgin, dorky asshole.

                    11. I don’t know why he keeps disappearing. I’ll make sure to post this whenever he does.

                    12. That’s far too charitable.

                  1. Q, I heard you had the lube hookup. Us ubersexuals need a lot of that sort of thing…

                    1. It’s not what you think, but I’m not going to stop you from trying.

                    2. Make it yourself!

                      Equipment needed:

                      One five gallon bucket
                      Power drill with paint stirring attachment.

                      Ingredients:

                      8 cups methyl cellulose (Trade names Methocel or Mecellose.)
                      1 1/2 gallons near boiling water
                      ice water to taste

                      Gradually add methocel to hot water while stirring vigorously. Be sure to scrape the sides of the paint bucket as you stir. Continue stirring until the mixture has the appearance of a spherical glob of bread dough. This should take about thirty minutes.

                      Gradually add ice water while stirring vigorously until desired viscosity is obtained. Continue stirring at least thirty minutes. Let sit overnight to let air bubbles escape.

                      This is 90% of KY Jelly. You can have fun reverse engineering the rest.

                    3. I use methyl cellulose in cooking. I’m disappointed to know that I should have been having sex with it this whole time.

                    4. Where I come from a lube guy sends me well-made lube at a discount price. I have been misled!

                    5. But now you can love your food before you eat it!

                    6. Listen man, I have a five gallon bucket of the stuff ready at all times. You just don’t want be having sex with the stuff I prepare.

                    7. Makers, Frank, makers.

                2. “A$$holes”? What are you, 12? Did your missionary parents beat the faith into you whenever you used the Lord’s name in vain? Must’ve been in between whipping your sister for getting that abortion.

                  1. I just f@rted.

                    1. Great. I just sent an angry email to BreakWind Inc.

                    2. Go sp!t!

                    3. I can’t figure out what you guys are trying to say.

      3. The TL;DR version is basically “they were bullied into supporting it”. I remember this guy from my FrontPageMag days; I expected nothing less.

        1. “[…]basically “they were bullied into supporting it”[…]”

          Yeah, they have such a strong devotion to their principles that a 140-character text made them cower in the corner!

    2. From a John Waters quote in there (I assume not that John Waters):

      This has been the most comprehensive betrayal of democratic principles by an establishment in living memory. And it is not that most politicians actually care one way or another ? many have simply either caved in to the bullying or are playing to the “cool” vote, perhaps thinking that they’ll be safely over the line to their pensions before the consequences kick in. But the consequences will come, and sooner rather than later, devastating families and individual citizens in thousands of tragedies played out in the courts, in proceedings in which neither nature nor biology will any longer feature as a criterion of parenthood.

      Dogs and cats living together!

      1. It is better to stay in the closet and form a loveless, sham marriage than be yourself.

        This is what these people really believe.

        1. It takes work to love somebody. Love is an act of will. It’s not merely an uncontrollable emotional response. If one is in a loveless marriage, he needs to make it a love-filled marriage, if at all possible.

    3. I’ve been a supporter of gay marriage since before it was cool.

      That said = the way people are acting seems to reveal that the issue is in many ways about lefties celebrating themselves.

      Sort of like how a regular marriage… Is all about the brides mom? The issue of Gay Marriage is treated in a way that is like a Culture War version of spiking the football. Its not about the gays, so much as it is the “supporters” who want to congratulate themselves ostentatiously about their own ‘open-mindedness’. Liberals are the cloying mother of the bride in this case.

      I’m happy for all the gays in Ireland. All 3%-or-less of them, and the even smaller minority of those that plan to marry. I think people who act like this sort of thing is a tipping point toward the decline of western civilization (AlgerHiss, i’m looking at you) are idiots, and likewise the people dancing in the streets as though Lincoln just freed the slaves.

      1. Well said.

      2. I think it’s mainly a culture war issue for ‘libertarians’ too. I can’t think of a single way that “freedom” as libertarian theorists have traditionally defined it is increased by homosexual marriage. They support it because it is “cool.”

        1. So you’re saying there’s no such thing as a gay libertarian?

        2. Well, there’s the freedom to get married for those who beforehand couldn’t.

        3. I think it’s mainly a culture war issue for ‘libertarians’ too. I can’t think of a single way that “freedom” as libertarian theorists have traditionally defined it is increased by homosexual marriage. They support it because it is “cool.”

          Hoseshit!

          The ability to do as you wish provided you aren’t violating the rights of others is as libertarian as anything gets.

          1. “The ability to do as you wish provided you aren’t violating the rights of others is as libertarian as anything gets.”

            And few things say ‘libertarian’ like support for a government forbidding some sort of contract to those who find the same sex attractive, right JC?
            Did you get lost and end up here by accident?

          2. Homosexuals have been able to “do whatever they want,” ever since Lawrence v Texas. What they are demanding is special recognition and status from the government.

            1. What they are demanding is special recognition and status from the government.

              You mean, the same special recognition and status from the government that you already get, hon?

            2. You and some friends have been free to call yourself a corporation and try to get people to recognize and interact with as if you were, so I guess you’d be fine if the government carved out a class of people you’re in and refused to recognize any corporation you tried to form? I mean, you wouldn’t cry over such a denial of special recognition and status I guess.

            3. J C William|5.23.15 @ 9:56PM|#
              “Homosexuals have been able to “do whatever they want,” ever since Lawrence v Texas.”

              I understand that real idjits make this claim and they and other similar idjits believe it.
              Hint JC: We’re not as dumb as you, so you can quit lying. We’ll just laugh at you if you continue.

              1. Sevo: And I’ll continue to laugh ad your precious “freedom” is taken away by the homosexuals, Jews, and minorities you love so much. You certainly have it coming.

                1. J C William|5.23.15 @ 11:08PM|#
                  “Sevo: And I’ll continue to laugh ad your precious “freedom” is taken away by the homosexuals, Jews, and minorities you love so much. You certainly have it coming.”

                  Fucking racist asshole makes it clear. And don’t worry, those ‘minorities’ and me will make tons of money while you pay the rent on the double-wide space.
                  Do you have a swastika on the wall, shitstain?

                  1. Black people are rich! Yeah I’m so fucking jealous.

                  1. “Don’t you have a kid’s show to be freaking out over?”

                    From the link:
                    “interracial cuckold fetishism!”
                    Pretty sure we have some ‘insecurity’ here…
                    JC, if that’s you, I’m guessing gay guys will laugh at your “mighty sword” too.

                  2. “Heroic Mulatto” look at how the heroic negroes are treated in the promised land:

                    http://www.davidsheen.com/racism/

                    1. This is a reply to J C William (Murikin), as I expect his posts won’t be here long.

                      You are a disgusting piece of shit.

                    2. “JC William” look at propaganda posted by JC William:
                      From the link
                      “The Israeli government ignored the UN’s call, and the following month, Israelis firebombed a kindergarten for African children in Tel Aviv, igniting a wave of violence against non-Jewish African people in Israel that is still ongoing.”
                      Which “Israelis” “firebombed” which kindergarten and why haven’t we heard about this before?
                      And why are you now blaming “Israelis” for “firebombing” the blacks you hate as much as anyone?
                      Could you please get your racism straight before you post more bullshit?

                    3. I didn’t write that, David Sheen did.

                      You haven’t heard about the firebombing because that’s not the kind of thing that gets reported on reason.com

                      A quick google search can easily confirm that the firebombing happened, but you won’t do that because you don’t want to know anything that might lead you to question the reputation of the Eternal Victim Group.

                    4. Fuck off Murikin, you diseased scumbag.

                    5. J C William|5.24.15 @ 1:14AM|#
                      “I didn’t write that, David Sheen did.”

                      I didn’t claim you did, just that you are a racist asshole who would link it. Which you are, racist asshole.
                      ——————————
                      “You haven’t heard about the firebombing because that’s not the kind of thing that gets reported on reason.com”

                      Oh, so there was some conspiracy to hide it from the public? Or maybe it was was a made-up story for you and other racist assholes to promote?
                      Why do I think the latter is correct? Because you’re a racist asshole? Why, of course!
                      ———————–
                      “A quick google search can easily confirm that the firebombing happened, but you won’t do that because you don’t want to know anything that might lead you to question the reputation of the Eternal Victim Group.”

                      ‘Oh! Oh! Look! You can search all over the innertubes and find some whacko assholes who agree with me!’
                      No, shitstain, I won’t bother to do that since if you really had a source, you’d have linked it. You’re a pathetic piece of shit who tries the same lame crap as every racist who shows up here.
                      If you’re not ‘murkin’, you’re a sad excuse for that racist piece of shit. Go away now, please. You have been called on every bit of your pathetic claims. Go. Now.

                    6. I think it’s hilarious that Murkin expects me to clutch my pearls and head for the fainting couch from hyper-sensationalized accounts of Israeli racism. You mean there are bigoted fuck-wits everywhere? No shit, Sherlock.

                      And it’s doubly risible considering the fact that despite the racism that exists in Israeli society, it is microscopic compared to that in the culture of those whom Murk gives his full, deep-throated support. For example, Did you know that in Saudi Arabia, Blacks are prohibited from occupying most government positions by royal proclamation?

                    7. And it’s doubly risible considering the fact that despite the racism that exists in Israeli society, it is microscopic compared to that in the culture of those whom Murk gives his full, deep-throated support. For example, Did you know that in Saudi Arabia, Blacks are prohibited from occupying most government positions by royal proclamation?

                      Yeah, it was really surprising for me to learn a middle eastern people discriminates against others. I thought they all would be morally righteous like the Jews. Why the hell would I give my “full deep-throated support” to those primitive, inbred, low-IQ Arabs? The enemy of my enemy is not my friend.

      3. What a load of false equivalence. Some people want to keep people from getting married because of the irrational belief they’re icky because of how they have sex and then there’s those yahoos who broke from that but feel a little too good about themselves for doing so!

        1. I don’t know about you but I blame all of these not-so-secret soconz.

          1. Rather sad. There’s few so cons posting here. There are though quite a few conservatives and GOP fans who, seeing so cons as part of their coalition, don’t care much to see them criticized for their statist failings.

            1. Hey, you keep on preaching the truth, brother!

        2. “the irrational belief they’re icky”

          Considering all the diseases they spread I’d say the disgust most heterosexuals have with their behavior is perfectly rational.

          1. Thanks for being my example.

            1. Troll on troll. I can’t decide if I want microwaved or stove popped.

              1. How warped and devoted can you be to your web community purity campaign can you be where the ‘troll’ is the guy who agrees with Gillespie’s article and not the guy who sounds like a drunk Huckabee? I know you like to use this forum as your own personal Facebook while ignoring your disappointing family, but you’d think you’d at least give a nod to what the site is actually about.

                1. derpity derp

                  I’m Bo…

                  I’m not self aware enough to realize I’m a hated asshole and my schtick is weak.

              2. When do Trolls get to marry Trolls?

                1. And when do they leave on their honeymoon?

                2. Can 2 trolls marry each other?

                  May 3 trolls marry each other?

                  May 2 trolls marry their father?

                  Why or why not?

                  1. Polygamy under the bridge.

                    1. +1 appropriate pun

                  2. I guess you want to go back to the days when goblins had to use separate bathrooms, you racist.

  3. Try as I might, I’m having a hard time convincing myself these guys are gonna take to libertarianism. Sorta like that guy over in the stadium thread; we can agree on one issue, and then I’m seeing a straight (sorry) D-ticket vote.

  4. Isn’t that Ru Paul the libertarian nut job who is running for president and who wants the terrorists and druggies to win?

    1. Yes. Rand Paul is the drag queen. Easy to confuse them.

      1. So who’s the guy with the eye chart? I haz a confuse.

        1. That’s R. Paul, just to clear up any confusion.

          1. So Ru is the eye doctor, Rand is the think tank, and Ron is the guy at McDonalds. Got it.

            1. I donated to the Ron campaign today. Jalape?o Double. Just doing my part.

              1. That’s the spirit! 2016 or bus!

                1. If libertarians don’t sweep the White House and Congress in 2016, the libertarian moment has passed forever.

            2. I do so try to help out when I can.

            3. NO! Rand wrote that novel.

  5. What is this I don’t even

  6. It is not social acceptance that makes us free in a libertarian society; it’s the lack of government force. I’m reminded of Nick Gillespie’s screaming at some stupid Lefty a few months ago that “libertarians do so believe in evolution!” Non-sequiter much?

    1. Except there’s a long history of social disapproval of people who aren’t hurting anyone else being expressed in a host of liberty suppressing laws (or just violence). That people want to be with members of the same sex or dress in ways traditional for the other gender feel more free to do so without fear they’ll be locked up either in an asylum or jail, or beaten up, is a good thing. It’s like people here don’t want to admit this because those icky SJWs happen to agree.

  7. VID: How RuPaul and Drag Race Is Making Us All More Free

    Really, us ALL? Can’t think of how my freedom enhanced by these people’s sexual fantasies. I’m a heterosexual white man.

    1. And I, a heterosexual white man, can’t think of how my freedom is curtailed by these people’s sexual fantasies.

      If they can swish publicly without being stoned then liberty in general is increased.

      1. +1

    2. I’m a heterosexual white man.

      Congratulations. I’m so proud of you, honey.

      1. Just so you all know, I am an ubersexual and I do not recognize skin color.

        1. I AM A VIKING AND I WILL BATHE IN YOUR BLOOD

      2. I’m sorry I forgot to apologize for it.

        1. You don’t need to apologize for being a white man. Just for being a bigoted, statist asshole.

    3. You don’t have to want to do something to have the liberty to do it. I don’t think I’ll ever want to inject heroin into my body, but I’d sure like the government to recognize my liberty to do so.

  8. I still would.

    1. Just tell us when you wouldn’t.

  9. “Today Ireland made history,” Prime Minister Enda Kenny said at a news conference, adding that “in the privacy of the ballot box, the people made a public statement.”

    But will the touching of privates in the confession box carry on as per?

    1. Confessional Gloryholes 2.0

  10. The social revolution Ireland is undergoing is wonderful. However, in America we have a long way to go:

    For the second straight year, organizers of two of Utah’s most popular parades have rejected a Mormon LGBT group’s request to participate.

    Yet, there is progress being made, in Arkansas of all places:

    Gay rodeo tests tolerance in Arkansas, hotbed of rights fight

    For two days, gays and lesbians and at least one transgender man competed in barrel racing and bull riding on the soft soil of a fairgrounds arena at the rodeo that looked like just about every small-scale rodeo held across the country.

    The arena’s railings were festooned with the banners of corporate sponsors advertising products such as Bud Light beer, Jack Daniels whiskey, and Gun Oil personal lubricant.

  11. OKLAHOMA CITY ? Ben Carson won the straw poll at the Southern Republican Leadership Conference Saturday, demonstrating his popularity among conservative activists at one of the party’s traditional presidential cattle call events.

    Carson, a former surgeon who formally launched his underdog campaign this month with an appeal to the GOP’s tea party wing, finished first with 25 percent. He was followed by Scott Walker, who received 20 percent, and Ted Cruz at 16 percent. Chris Christie and Rick Perry tied at 5 percent, with Jeb Bush narrowly behind. Marco Rubio tied with Bobby Jindal and Rand Paul at 4 percent.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/story/…..z3b19OuzQ0

    1. Turd:
      “8%!”

      1. A quote straight from Politico, you Team Red nut-licker.

        1. Turd:
          “8%! 8%! 8%! Oh, and BOOOOOOOOOSH!”

    2. Other than his home state I’d be surprised if Paul did well in the South. The West and places like NH are where I bet he’ll run the strongest.

      1. Rand Paul won’t finish win/place/show in Texas.

        His campaign in Ron’s plus 1%.

        1. I count TX as more South than West.

      2. I’d be surprised if he did any better than his father.

  12. “When people ask me what does drag mean to me I say it’s total liberation and freedom of expression,” says Kennedy Davenport, a contestant on this season’s Drag Race competition.

    Yes, they are liberated and free to express themselves, however, they are just mimicking the styles already created by other women. They don’t seem to “liberated” in their ideas. A man who wears his shirt as pants and his pants as a shirt, now, there is a totally liberated man.

    1. That’s OK. I’ll be more than happy if some partially-liberated guys don’t get tossed in the slammer.

      1. That’s OK. I’ll be more than happy if some partially-liberated guys don’t get tossed in the slammer.

        I thought most of them liked getting slammed and tossed. Or, tossed and then slammed? I am sure there is some preference in the order.

      2. Though it’s certainly fun when they try to throw partially liberated guys in the slammer and it ends in a complete police rout.

        RUDY: My name is Rudy and the night of the Stonewall I was 18 and to tell you the truth, that night I was doing more running than fighting. I remember looking back from 10th Street, and there on Waverly Street there was a police, I believe on his . . . a cop and he is on his stomach in his tactical uniform and his helmet and everything else, with a drag queen straddling him. She was beating the hell out of him with her shoe. Whether it was a high heel or not, I don’t know. But she was beating the hell out of him. It was hysterical.

    2. Wouldn’t the real courage be in rejecting the whole convention of wearing clothes?

      1. The Ultimate Libertarian EndGame – a Clothing Optional Society.

      2. Wouldn’t the real courage be in rejecting the whole convention of wearing clothes?

        No, no, no. I don’t think you understand what it means to be totally liberated. You allow yourself to be trapped in this false reality. Remaining blissfully ignorant of the truth. It is okay, there are many like you, most people in fact. People who are afraid to face the truth.

  13. Dave Zirin ?@EdgeofSports 11h11 hours ago
    We need another word for “union” when it comes to police unions. Shames the name for any union to celebrate #BreloVerdict. “Cartel” works.

    1. Actually, we don’t. Unions aren’t ‘shamed’ by any union thugs I’ve yet to see.

      1. ^This. ‘Union’ is bad enough by itself

    2. Shames the name for any union to celebrate #BreloVerdict.

      Yeah, Zirin. That’s the takeaway here: how bad this makes unions look. IDIOT

      1. This is the tail end of a Saturday thread that’ll never get any looks, but regardless, I encourage everyone who does wander this far to this to read this:
        “Meet You in Hell” http://www.amazon.com/Meet-You…..t+you+hell
        Les Standiford is no one’s ‘capitalist tool’, but his record of the Homestead Steel Strike is quite clear:
        Those who were highly paid leaned heavily on those who were paid less to support the strike, and the ‘massacre’ happened after the Pinkertons tried to find a safe landing zone and were attacked by the union thugs. The archetypal “union-busting” is, in reality, the prototypical union thuggery, murdering those who were hired to do nothing more than protect the property. Pathetic.
        Unions? Supposedly they helped ‘the working man’, but that help was extremely selective. Ask a black who tried to get hired in the ’50s.

        1. …murdering those who were hired to do nothing more than protect the property.

          You care more about property than you do people’s lives!!!

          /prog

          1. JJ, that book is one I keep at hand, along with, oh, “Postwar” and “The Fifties” and for that matter “The Arms of Krupp”.
            All written by those who lean left but who are honest enough to record history when it does not support their view.
            Tuchman, OTOH writes such that I’ve never found a list, either port or starboard.

            1. My father-in-law is a prog from Pittsburgh.

              We were in Pittsburgh a couple of years ago for a family get-together, and John spent all of our time driving around town pointing out the history of the place, and he mentioned Frick and Carnegie, and the Homestead strike, frequently. Totally biased towards the unions and the workers, of course.

              I’ll give that book a read to see what he left out of the tour. Thanks for the suggestion.

        2. Unions? Supposedly they helped ‘the working man’, but that help was extremely selective. Ask a black who tried to get hired in the ’50s.

          They’re also supposedly patriotic.

          Yet they shutdown Philadelphia for a week during WWII because blacks were allowed to hold whites only jobs with the PTC. So not only were they traitorous saboteurs in league with Hitler and Tojo (indeed, they did more to damage American wartime production than the Nazis or Japs ever did), they were also racist fucktards.

          Unions suck.

  14. I spent my Saturday listening to Dan Carlin’s detailed rehash of WW1 (thank you, Warty). Memorial weekend done right. One detail I’m coming away with is this: some men have within them the capacity to transmute horror and tragedy into wry wit, and those soldiers tend to survive and transcend the terror of it. The rest who can’t cope die, quickly or eventually, but in any event don’t live to recount their experiences. But think about it. The battlefield experience is captured and immortalized by survivors who tend to be a subgroup of soldiers with the sardonic disposition to downplay horrible shit. So the horrifying shit we hear from them is just gallows humor among soldiers. The reality is much worse.

    1. I semi-agree.

      My grandpa was a Purple Heart and Nazi POW, captured in the Battle of the Bulge. He never talked about the war. Ever. He came home, made a life for himself, and pretended it never happened. The first time he even mentioned it was to me, when I was in the 8th grade, and he took my family to Europe. It was a very detached telling of the story.

      Now that he’s getting really old (93 next month, his 21st birthday was D-day), the memories are somewhat unfiltered. I’m not sure anything he says would ever make it into a war documentary. It’s very unpleasant.

      So I think some use gallows humor, other don’t say anything at all.

      1. Comparatively speaking, those guys had great big brass balls. I don’t know if they were actually tougher, I suspect they were, but they were expected to take a lot more risk than today’s military, and they all did. There isn’t even a comparison between them and the current force.

        1. WWII? No other options. No college deferment. No welfare. No GI Bill til’ ’44.

          You expected not to come home.

      2. My grandfather drove a Sherman for The Canadian Army, and fought in France, Belgium, and The Netherlands.

        He passed away when I was 16, and we never discussed the war, or what he saw there. According to my Dad and his siblings, grandpa would only talk about it after finishing a bottle of whiskey; one of the highlights of his memory was the piling of his comrades dead bodies onto the tank to bring them back from the front.

      3. I overplayed my hand with the wit of it. But I do think we get our war lore filtered through raconteurs who were themselves fairly jaded people. Listening to the first-hand accounts from which Carlin draws is an interesting parallel to what passes for “triggering” these days. The descriptions of trenches occupied by recruits dealing with the stench of bodies weeks, months, and years old is horrible enough, and descriptions given in the poetic language of literate intellectuals who survived the carnage and lived to write down intimate accounts really puts to shame the “I just can’t” class of grievance-dweebs these days. And as horrible as they make it out, these were conditions that simply broke the minds of people who couldn’t endure it. Green recruits, sure, but also professional soldiers. Months occupying trenches with little movement and less hope, exploding shells and snipers and barbed wire and the stench of corpses of friends and strangers and your sergeant standing at your back with a revolver and the promise of a swift execution if you considered for a moment not going over the top into equally certain death. I can’t do it justice and I’m a little ashamed trying, but that’s my impression of the ordeal. Terrible. And then to think that the people who managed to cope with that horrendous ordeal couldn’t possibly relate the truth of it without a great deal of elision is just by itself horrible.

        1. And I’m just seven hours into the series. He’s gotten into the meat of the trench warfare but the Americans aren’t yet involved except as financiers. It’s midway through 1915, the Canadians sent over 30,000 soldiers, some of whom managed to plug up the Allied line breached by the first use by Germans of chlorine gas. The Germans are debating among themselves the ethics and wisdom of torpedoing merchant ships with submarines.

          1. I like Dan Carlin, but have yet to listen to the WW1 series.

            Thanks to you and Warty for the encouragement to check it out.

      4. I have an uncle who was a pretty gung-ho marine in Vietnam and undoubtedly saw some serious shit. I have never heard him say a word about his military service.

    2. The thing that amazed me about his summary was how emotionally pummelling it was. Just hearing about it was kind of an ordeal, because it went on and on and it seemed like he was saying the same thing for hours at a time. And every sentence he spoke represented thousands of men dying in unspeakable ways.

      Related thought: Decoration Day was a better holiday than Memorial Day.

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