Watch Matt Welch Talk Anti-Cartoon Violence on Tonight's Kennedy

Tonight at 10 p.m. ET (7 p.m. PT) I am scheduled to be on Fox Business Network's terrific Kennedy program to speak with the eponymous host (and friend o' Reason) about last night's rebuffed terrorist attack on a draw-Mohammed cartoon contest in Garland, Texas. We will be chewing over what this incident means for the American culture of free speech, a topic which Nick Gillespie covered marvelously last night.

Comments

[Pan Zagloba]

I'm sure Gilmore is tingling with anticipation! Will we see a bold new purple tie?

[SusanM]

OT: Safety regulations suck

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgX6JFoV0TM

[Mongo]

if you trace your hand like a turkey drawing and turn it upside down you'll have an instant mohammed drawing with his big nose and grubby beard lolol

[Stormy Dragon]

Watch Matt Welch Talk Anti-Cartoon Violence on Tonight's Kennedy

o/~ They fight and bite, they fight and fight and bite.... o/~

[GILMORE]

I always thought it was just "they fight and fight, fight and fight, fight fight fight, fight fight fight..."

[GILMORE]

Also =

Itchy and Scratchy predicted the Social Justice Warrior influence on media many years in advance

[Winston]

Except that complaints about Cartoon Violence, TV Violence, Hays Code, Comics Code, etc. long predate the 1990s...

[GILMORE]

Yes, but the actual 'stripped of everything potentially offensive'-re-imagination was very insightful

at the time the Simpsons was first coming out, its golden years, the 1990s Political Correctness-thing was in full swing. the main difference was that the mass media at the time actually tended to mock the "everything offensive must be censored" attitude that liberal academics promulgated

its notable that 'cartoons' (animated) have been some of the sharpest social commentary of the last 20+ years. Family Guy, Simpsons, South Park, even King of the Hill.... all tended to be more 'cutting edge' and socially critical than any comparable prime-time dramatic television.

[Episiarch]

Well, it makes sense. Cartoons have laughable overhead compared to a live action show, especially a scripted fiction show. So it's easier for one to get made even if it says/does some unpopular (with the bien pensants) stuff or is "offensive". It's also harder to potentially cow it into submission for similar reasons.

[GILMORE]

did the Simpsons ever get into hot water over anything?

I thought the South Park "Mohammed the bear" was awesome

But "Homer-phobic" sparked no outrage. (it was back when there were still 2 sides to the "gay marriage debate" and no one demanded there to be 1 politically-acceptable position) No one freaked out when Homer got a gun, or when he was on medical marijuana. I think the only shit the Simpsons have ever caught was from people who accused them of perpetuating Ethnic stereotypes. (Apu, mainly, but I believe some Italian Americans once squawked about the Mafia characters)

[Episiarch]

The Simpsons have always been (or at least used to be when I still watched) very good at not being "too offensive" or too polarizing, which makes sense for a show that is very popular with all kinds of people. So they wouldn't really have had much occasion to get into trouble.

Now, South Park, Family Guy, Archer, Bojack Horseman (Bojack's little speech about "the troops" was awesome)...these shows take a much more provocative tone. And I'm glad they do.

[Viscount Irish, Slayer of Huns]

The best character in Bojack Horseman.

[Episiarch]

What makes Vincent Adultman so amazing is how they absolutely will not let you know if he's a joke or not. It's essentially a running gag but the gag is that they won't actually let you know what the gag is.

And Diane's Masshole family was an unexpected treat. There's not enough Masshole mockery on TV, I tell you.

[Viscount Irish, Slayer of Huns]

I just love that only BoJack realizes it's not a real grownup and everyone else thinks he's the greatest guy on Earth.

[Viscount Irish, Slayer of Huns]

STAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMOOOOOS! WE THOUGHT NIGHTSWIMMING WOULD BE FUN BUT THE CURRENT WAS TOO STROOOONG!

[Warty]

Santa works in mysterious ways.

[Episiarch]

But the thing is they never confirm whether Bojack is right. They deliberately make it so you can't tell. At first I was finding the character to be a little tedious but then when they just would not let me know, I got a lot more interested.

[Warty]

"Can you imagine this body in a swimsuit?"

"I literally cannot."

[Episiarch]

There's still nothing that made me erupt in brief, unexpected laughter more than the "Bradley Hitler-Smith" credit on the Xmas special. Oh my god, that caught me beautifully unawares.

[Warty]

Yowza-yowza-bo-bowza!

*gestures to audience to clap*

[Los Doyers]

You know a show is absolute shit if BOTH Warty and Epi watch it.

*sits back smugly, turns on Ancient Aliens.*

[Episiarch]

"I'm sorry, officer, I was just fleeing my girlfriend whom I don't respect enough to have a baby with."

[Winston]

I bet Epi's a fan of Brickleberry or Assy McGee.

[Winston]

Bojack's little speech about "the troops" was awesome)

You Know Who Else wants shows to have unsubtle political jokes that agree with them?

[Libertarian]

Apparently there was a ruckus in Egypt over this.

1. I don't speak the language so I don't know if the subtitles are accurate.
2. Only 35 views -- I didn't know it was possible to have anything on youtube with a figure that low.
3. IF the subtitles are true -- holy mackerel!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGzN-WCDlJI

[GILMORE]

"New Kids on the Bleecch" - the simpsons episode referenced... predates the Syrian civil war by about a decade.

So clearly... they're correct. Obviously NATO *premeditated* their involvement with the Syrian opposition, and had that information leaked to the Fox network so that people could have the idea planted in their subconsciousness.

How Fox also determined what the Free Syrian Army flag would look like so far in advance... I suspect the Jews were involved, somehow.

[Warty]

YVAN EHT NIOJ

[Derpetologist]

It's legit. That video is originally from the Middle East Media Research Institute:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vyofadz81J0

This one is pretty is great. A famous cleric criticizes Arabs for being lazy idiots:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Pk2-vr4sSw

[GILMORE]

lol

this is great.

I went looking for "Simpsons Controversies", and apparently this is one of the bigger ones =

"As well as angering the people of Australia, the Simpsons also caused a stir in Brazil with the 2002 episode "Blame It On Lisa".

After depicting Australians as "backwards" and lawless people, the show's writers created further controversy by portraying Brazil as a rat-infested criminal wasteland populated by monkeys and kidnappers, while the police were shown to be lazy and unhelpful, and Brazilian men bisexual.

So enraged were the Brazilian government by this episode that its tourism board even threatened the show with legal action, though none was taken after executive producer James Brooks publicly apologised."

I personally think mocking exaggerated stereotypes of other Nations is fundamental to any good entertainment. Suck it, Ozzys. Its why they're called "jokes"

But Brazil ... hell, that's *accurate*

[Episiarch]

"All right, all right, you win. I see you've played knifey-spoony before."

[Zeb]

Jesus. Imagine if Americans freaked out about every stupid stereotype perpetuated in TV shows from other countries. I thought Australians were supposed to be good about that sort of thing. I suppose it could just be a bitchy minority.

[Gojira]

No Zeb, we can't freak out because of relative power dynamics. Since the United States is the most powerful nation on earth, anyone is allowed to make fun of us. We, however, are not allowed to make fun of anyone else, because it would be "punching down".

[Zeb]

Yeah, rural residents of the American South are so much more empowered than BBC presenters.

[GILMORE]

I made this point to my dad the other day = major news show hosts, talk shows in the US *loves* them some 'anglophone' accents (british, aussie, irish, south african, etc)....

....but there's not a single sports show/news host, or even a character on a dramatic show, with a fucking southern accent. Almost nothing, nobody

And that's despite it being probably the single most common US "dialect"

(*given that aside from the "Boston/NY" exceptions, most others are generally indistinguishable or otherwise just super-narrow, like Buffalo, Balmer, Minnesota, Cape Codders etc, - whereas southerners, despite regional differences, share a general drawl and slang that affects millions)

If anyone should be 'offended' by lack of representation in media, its southerners. And worse = when there is a 'southern character'... just guess the stereotype that's presented?

[SIV]

NASCAR analysts and announcers?

[GILMORE]

lol - Sorry, that's got to be the exception that proves the rule 🙂

"but but Duck Dynasty?! Reruns of the Dukes of Hazzard?!"

[SIV]

Fox News' Dagen McDowell has a beautiful Virginia Piedmont accent.

[Zeb]

Surely Beavis and Butthead belongs in there.

[Episiarch]

Beavis and Butthead was more just...stupid. In a funny way, but just really dumb.

Now, Judge's Silicon Valley (not animated, though) is really witty and really funny. It's a great show.

[Zeb]

Maybe some pop-culture commentary that was more than just stupid.

But I guess you are right. And that is why I love it so much. It's just stupid comedy meant only to be funny. Which, in a time where everything seems to want to be social commentary or have some moral or lesson to it, could almost count as a kind of social commentary. Or maybe it's just refreshing. That's why I like Always Sunny so much too.

I need to check out Silicon Valley.

[PapayaSF]

Did you ever see his show The Goode Family? Very funny.

[Winston]

And those shows are all ripoffs of Wait Till Your Father Gets Home

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/W....._Gets_Home

[Paul.]

Ot: Seattle city council member takes kayak made of Petrochemicals to protest Petrochemicals. Seals council's reputation as "world's dumbest deliberative body"

He was among those who participated this morning in the latest round of "kayaktivist" training in advance of the on-water demonstrations planned when Shell's Arctic-offshore-drilling rigs get to Terminal 5

Also, activists introduce most cringe-inducing linguistic blend to date.

http://westseattleblog.com/201.....-training/

[Rich]

O'Brien chairs the council's Planning, Land Use, and Sustainability Committee

*and* the Fish, Underwater Concerns, and Kelp Committee.

[GILMORE]

"Mark, I agree! Stop the grandstanding and start working WITH your political opponents to come up with REAL solutions. Light rail, EVs, a bus system that doesn't get stuck in traffic (ahem, C-Line). So much that can be done'

MONORAIL!

[Raven Nation]

Has to be a contender for best Simpsons episode ever.

[Akira]

"Ya know, a town with money is like a mule with a spinning wheel... Nobody knows where he got it, and damned if he knows how to use it!"

[Episiarch]

But Paul, kayaks are "green"!

By the way, have you ever rented the kayaks on Lake Union and paddled around? It's pretty fun. Some of the houseboats/water houses are amazing. I want one.

[Paul.]

I own two kayaks... Both made of petrochemicals. I was an avid kayaker for many years, up until around 2003. I don't get out as often as I'd like, but yes, lots of time kayaking around lake union house boats.

A friend and I kayaked from Olympia to Seattle one year. That trip was epic, as in hard. Camped "illegally" on eagle island. It was fun, and I really miss it.

[Episiarch]

Holy shitballs. That's far for kayaks. How long did it take you?

[Paul.]

Three days. 56 miles. Had all the tides and currents planned. My friend had some trouble with his load out and we lost critical time on the first day. As a result we missed the tide going through the narrows, so that's why we camped on eagle is. You don't realize how strong a Puget sound tide current is until you fight it.

Next morning, ran into some wicked chop off point defiance that had us seriously concerned we might capsize, but we made it through. Because we lost so much time the first day, we had to make up for it on the second, so we did 30 miles. First time I probably experienced what runners call "runners high".

Also, first time I did gps navigation in pitch black finding a spot on vashon to camp. Cool stuff.

[Episiarch]

Damn. I do realize what Sound currents are like, I've seen them. You need to know how to read the water if you want to do stuff like this (or sail), because you can get yourself in a lot of trouble.

I was also out near Neah Bay one time and was renting a house right on the Juan de Fuca Strait, and was eyeballing the distance to Canada and speculating whether I could make it, and then I saw what the current was like and I decided "no way in hell".

[Paul.]

Slack tide, that's when you do it. But you don't have much time.

[Paul.]

You should go night kayaking during late summer off Bainbridge island. Most brilliant luminescent plankton you'll ever see. It's difficult to describe until you see it in person. Probably like trying to describe the northern lights to someone who's veneer seen them.

Anyway, your paddle hits the water and it's like thousands of tiny green Christmas lights that look like footprints behind your kayak, everywhere your paddle touched the water.

[Episiarch]

Whoa, neat. Though...I'd have to go to Bainbridge. But that does sound like something fun. Especially when stoned.

[Paul.]

Just kayak across from Ballard. That's how I do it. That's how America does it.

[Episiarch]

But then I'd have to go to Ballard! Oh wait I was just there Saturday night. Never mind.

[Rich]

Hillary Rodham Clinton has agreed to testify on Capitol Hill later this month about the attacks in Benghazi, Libya, and about her email practices.

Her lawyer David Kendall ... said Clinton would answer all lawmakers' questions during one session and it would not be necessary for her to appear twice.

"I have no recollection of that. Next question."

"I have already repeatedly addressed that. Next question."

"Once again: On advice of counsel ?. Next question."

[Paul.]

I wonder why mx Clinton would agree to this?

[Rich]

Transparency!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"mx," ha

If I were to guess the answer to your question I'd say -

-Getting the scandal stuff behind her before 2016

-hoping for some footage of some Republican Congressman insulting her, so she can run the clip as an example of the War on Women.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

So if Congressman Doakes says she's "cooking the books," her fundraising letters will say - "Republicans think Hillary Clinton should go back to the kitchen!"

[Notorious G.K.C.]

If the Republicans are going to interrogate her on camera, they need to lock their dumber members in the basement and leave most of the questioning to Republican women.

Any insensitive remark by a Republican male questioner is going to be at the top of the news cycle for the next century, driving the scandals out of the public consciousness.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

"they need to lock their dumber members in the basement and leave most of the questioning to Republican women"

But won't they need a quorum?

[sloopyinTEXAS]

There's a difference in stupidity and malice.

[Raven Nation]

Also, "What difference, at this point, does it make?"

[SIV]

which Nick Gillespie covered marvelously last night.

Nice of Nick to give you a preview. Us "peanuts" didn't get it until almost 8:00 AM EDT today

[Viscount Irish, Slayer of Huns]

Man, CNN sure is spending fuckloads of time making sure everyone understands that Pamela Geller is a dirty unperson and undeserving of sympathy.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

NPR covered the story this morning and spent more time on the fact that 'anti-Muslim' Geert Wilders was there!!! I'm about the last person to whine about oversensitive and biased media coverage, but it's been pretty terrible in covering this.

[Derpetologist]

Every story I've seen about it describes it as an attack on an anti-Islam conference, then pivots to talking about how terrible Pamela Geller is. A more accurate headline would be "gunmen attack art exhibit", but that might create sympathy for the intended victims.

Some twit called into Thom Hartmann's show and said the exhibit was the equivalent of, wait for it:
shouting "fire" in a crowded theater.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Good grief that's the most stupidly used line in American politics.

To the extent there is any wisdom in the line it is supposed to rest on the idea that the theater is crowded, dark, and that yelling fire creates a natural and IMMEDIATE response that could cause harm. These people drove from Phoenix because they were upset about drawings being shown. The difference can be measured in light years.

[Viscount Irish, Slayer of Huns]

You see this argument a lot from the left, and one thing I've noticed is that they always seem to behave as if Muslims have no moral agency. I actually wrote something about this yesterday, and this part really needs to be seen to be believed.

Here's an idiot named Deborah Eisenberg:

Certainly no one could assert that the Charlie Hebdo staff are not, and were not, courageous. They had been threatened for years with violence at the hands of fundamentalist Islamic extremists, and yet they continued to pursue what they considered be their mission. Thus they expended their courage, and ten of them lost their lives, in what was essentially a parochial, irrelevant, misconceived, misdirected, relatively trivial, and more or less obsolete campaign against clericalism. It is also courageous to bait a hallucinating and armed soldier, to walk around naked in the dead of winter, to jump off a roof, to drink from a sewer, or to attempt sexual intercourse with a wild boar.

Yep! Muslims aren't people. They're like a cold winter or wild boars, inhuman forces and animals rather than human beings.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I'm not sure that argument follows. You can think that that something is likely to provoke without thinking all members of a group don't have moral agency. If I say 'man, what was he thinking walking through that neighborhood screaming that everyone in it was a mother----er, he was bound to get beat up' am I saying something about the moral agency of everyone in that neighborhood or making a very likely prediction based on what I know about human nature, the culture of that neighborhood, and sheer numbers (even if most in the area restrain themselves it only takes one or two nuts...).

[Bo Cara Esq.]

But I'll give you this: many leftists will argue as if making such predictions in other analogous situations is a great moral evil. So for example, if one said 'what in the world was that woman thinking walking through that neighborhood dressed like that at that time of night' they'd shriek 'victim blaming.' They'd say that such predictions give in to the malefactors and that they must be challenged. But with these situations their tune seems to change.

[sloopyinTEXAS]

But the left only does this for the poor, ignorant Muslims. They're the only group that exists where the left accepts victim-blaming for their actions.

The girl that dresses like a slut and gets all fucked up and raped? Victim (rightfully)
The protester who gets in a cop's face and has his head split open? Victim (rightfully)
The right-wing group that draws a picture of Mohammed and gets shot at? IT'S THEIR OWN FAULT (bullshit)

You don't see the hypocrisy?

[Derpetologist]

That article Irish posted is a gem...of derp.

"To endorse Hirsi Ali so unabashedly is to insult and mock a billion Muslims."

"We have 1,400 years of inherent pluralism within Islam to testify to that diversity within our religion."

Well which is it, cupcake? If Muslims are so diverse, it is impossible for Hirsi to be insulting ALL of them.

I expect idiots to contradict themselves, but it takes a special kind to do it between paragraphs.

[Derpetologist]

my bad- HM posted the article.

[PapayaSF]

"Those 'freedom riders' were asking for it!"

[Lord at War]

am I saying something about the moral agency of everyone in that neighborhood or making a very likely prediction based on what I know about human nature, the culture of that neighborhood, and sheer numbers (even if most in the area restrain themselves it only takes one or two nuts...).

So, maybe Doc Tiller shouldn't have put his abortion clinic in Kansas?

[Heroic Mulatto]

Oh, they are on a roll!

Ayaan Hirsi Ali is dangerous: Why we must reject her hateful worldview

[Jerryskids]

the American culture of free speech
.
This would be akin to that American culture of people fleeing religious intolerance in Europe in order to establish their own forms of religious intolerance here. The Alien and Sedition Acts were about as anti-free speech as you can get, and it was some of the same Founding Fathers who adopted the First Amendment who passed that steaming pile of FYTW.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Mitt Romney responds to Hillary Clinton's comments about ending mass incarceration policies

"'When she said we're not going to have mass incarcerations in the future, what is she referring to? We don't have mass incarcerations in America. Individuals are brought before tribunals, and they have counsel. They're given certain rights. Are we not going to lock people up who commit crimes?' he asked."

http://thinkprogress.org/justi.....n-problem/

Fun fact: Romney was the first MA governor to deny every request for a commutation or pardon in his tenure, 'including the request from a soldier serving in Iraq to be pardoned for a conviction at age 13 involving a BB gun.'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.....mmutations

[sloopyinTEXAS]

Boy, all of the hardcore Romney supporters are gonna be bringing out the knives to attack you, Bo!

Too bad there aren't any here.

[Los Doyers]

You been hitting the bottle again??? Do not engage.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

So, sloopy, when people post all those articles critical of Hillary Clinton here, it's because they must assume there's lots of Hillary fans here?

[sloopyinTEXAS]

The overwhelming majority of those people also post articles that put GOPers in a negative light.

Your ratchet seems to go one way.

[Ted S.]

I thought John was a hardcore Romney supporter, shrieking that those of us voting for Gary Johnson were taking votes away from Romney.

[sloopyinTEXAS]

I remember Tulpa doing that but not John.

But I could be wrong, as John does lean NeoCon compared to most everyone here.

[Los Doyers]

So is this some sort of half assed attempt at a TI thread resurrection? Well I'm not believing it until I can put my finger in Matt Welch's eye and my hand on Kennedy's...head.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

It's not the same without Kennedy's interruptions.

[Los Doyers]

I bet her pullout game is strong.

/runs

[Derpetologist]

Bernie Sanders brings the derp as only a decrepit socialist can:

1.We need a tax system which asks the billionaire class to pay its fair share of taxes and which reduces the obscene degree of wealth inequality in America

2. Education should be a right, not a privilege.

Bobby Jindal is not far behind:

1. We should increase our development of alternative fuels, taking advantage of renewable resources, like using corn and sugar to produce ethanol or soybeans to produce biodiesel.

2. Finally, we should help developing nations like China and India curb their exponentially increasing consumption of oil and natural gas, which is driving world prices higher.

Bobby, there is already a party that favors green energy boondoggles and believes economic fallacies.

[Fabi]

Is Bernie conflating wealth and income, or is he proposing a tax on assets? He's an idiot, regardless.

[Pan Zagloba]

Look, he's just trying to get back into Dalmia's good books. Pile up the derp and something will stick, as it were.

[GILMORE]

I just turned it on, and Kennedy mentioned (in one sentence)

- Rick Santorum
- Buzzfeed
- and Bruce Jenner

I will not sit through another second.

[Pan Zagloba]

When you've lost Gilmore....