Brickbat: Theft By Taking

Apple

When officials at a Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, high school seized his daughter's iPhone 6, one father went to get it back. Video he shot shows principal Linda M. Carroll refusing to return the phone, saying he can get it back in a few weeks. She offers him a flip phone he can give to his daughter if he needs to call her before then. A school system spokesman later said policy requires all confiscated electronics to be kept until the end of the academic quarter. School officials also say they have filed a police report against the father for recording Carroll without her permission.

Comments

[Not an Economist]

Way off-topic but heard it on the radio.

Take an Oreo. Wrap it in bacon. Stick a toothpick through both. Fry it up.

Supposedly tastes pretty good.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Part of this complete breakfast!

[AlmightyJB]

How could it not be?

[toliyadikoncama]

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[invisible furry hand]

I applaud the principal's position. The little girl might read on her smartphone, and it's just one step from that to mass death

[Swiss Servator, faul B??gg!]

Best they just remain without books, phones or other distractions....they can be told what they need to know, and Ritalined into submission otherwise.

[Ted S.]

[slaps IFH]

[invisible furry hand]

*slap!*

[UnCivilServant]

Why am I getting the mobile edition with no link to switch back to the usable edition?

[db]

I am getting.tired of them fucking with this site. If I tell my browser to request the non mobile version, there is a *reason* for that. Or, I guess, maybe there isn't.

[DEATFBIRSECIA]

Drink!

[The Hyperbole]

They have rules, it's their school, their rules. You don't like it stop patronizing them. Take your business elsewhere. It's not like you're forced to send your kid there or pay for it if. You don't like the way they run things? go to one of their competitors.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

That's what immediately went through my mind. If the parents stay there then they implicitly accept their rules and can't complain.

[Porque Pig]

If you stay in the US you can't complain about Obamacare either, right?

[UnCivilServant]

Shouldn't you be kowtowing to their arbitrary authority on health insurance too? That does seem to be your stance.

[Rufus J. Firefly]

What are you going on about? Deflect. Always deflect with these people.

[db]

Uuuummmmmmm...

[np]

It's a public school, so you are forced to pay for it.

Also, think of this as a review. How would others know to avoid the school if people didn't complain?

[Cyto]

It's a public school, so you are forced to pay for it.

I kinda think that was the point.

Or in internet comment section terms:

Wooooooosh!!!

[AlmightyJB]

The arriganve of the school administrators is unreal. I remenber giving them a heads up that our kids would be out for a week to visit their grandmother and see the grand canyon. They sent us a request form to fill out stating basically that they would let us know if they would give us permission. Needless to say I basically told them to fuck off.

[AlmightyJB]

Arrogance

[Fist of Etiquette]

Some might feel he shows a lack of thoroughness by saying he isn't interested in seeing the school rule, according to which Carroll claims she can keep the phone for weeks.

I have a policy stating I need to punch you in the face. I'm not sure why you're more interested in stanching the blood coming out of your nose than reading my internal rulebook.

[Cloudbuster]

This. You can't just have a policy that allows you to commit theft.

[Adans smith]

Government is the thing we do to decide what you get to keep ,re:Tony and butt plug

[Notorious G.K.C.]

It's not their cell phone - and it's not the kid's either, AFAIK. They can punish the kid, but as for retaining Dad's cell phone...where did they get the authority for that?

[Marshall Gill]

FYTW?

[Porque Pig]

It's a stretch to say it's Dad's cell phone when the kid is carrying it around everywhere.

If you let someone use your car and they park in a spot where it gets towed, you can't go to the impound lot and demand that they give it back to you for free because you weren't the one who parked it illegally.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

OK, so the principal was willing to give the phone back if Dad paid a storage fee?

Otherwise I'm a bit unclear on how this analogy applies.

[Porque Pig]

You seem unclear on the meaning of an analogy.

sky:blue::grass:green does not mean that the sky is grass.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

up:yours::kiss:my ass

[Porque Pig]

You seem to be deviating from Catholic morality quite a bit lately. Did you take communion after committing the mortal sin of calumny against me last weekend? You know that means the devil enters you.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

What did I say against you?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

If you're going to insinuate I committed sacrilege, you ought to be able to provide some evidence.

[Porque Pig]

You told that former American sob story that I attack people on the blog.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Could you provide a link, please?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

When you have the link, get back to me, OK?

*smooches*

[Porque Pig]

I just looked it up, it was actually tarran (in a conversation with you) who used the words "attack" and "bully". You merely called me a jerk (which is incorrect, but subjective). That was still borderline detraction but I'll absolve you of calumny.

.....THIS TIME.....

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Very courteous of you.

I think "jerk" may be an understatement.

[Porque Pig]

It was an honest mistake. And stop compounding your detraction. I don't want that goddam millstone.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

How can I "compound" what you just acknowledged I didn't do?

[Porque Pig]

Calumny is not the same as detraction.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Ah, yes:

"He becomes guilty...

"-of detraction who, without objectively valid reason, discloses another's faults and failings to persons who did not know them;

"- of calumny who, by remarks contrary to the truth, harms the reputation of others and gives occasion for false judgments concerning them."

Now, observe that calumny requires falsehood, while detraction requires disclosing faults to someone unaware of the fault.

What fault of yours did I disclose that other people didn't already know about?

http://www.vatican.va/archive/.....s2c2a8.htm

[Notorious G.K.C.]

I think people knew you were a jerk without my having to remind them.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

But if I offended you unnecessarily, I certainly apologize, sometimes the temptation to insult you seems overwhelming 🙁

[UnCivilServant]

The analogy would only work if the borrowing driver were still in the car, and got physically hauled out before they towed it.

[Porque Pig]

And it would only work if the iPhone had 4 wheels and ran on gasoline blah blah blah.

If the principal were offering to give the phone back for a fee, you guys would be up in arms about that too, so don't pretend that's the issue.

[Gadianton]

Not a stretch at all. Ownership of the phone follows the contract. The girl is a minor child -- hence unable to enter into a legally binding contract. The father is presumably the contract holder, and thus the owner of the phone.

The father should check whatever policies were given him by the school at the beginning of the year. If the confiscation policy isn't in there, he should raise holy hell. If it is, then he's probably out of luck.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

He should ask an attorney about getting his property back. But then, the expense may not be worth it.

[Tonio]

He could always put up a gofundme page. Hell, if those pizza parlor people who don't like gay weddings can score a million, he should be able to raise a couple of thousand. I'm always good for a five for causes like this.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Now, if Dad signed an agreement to follow school policy, that would be one thing. But the statement by the school says "According to the Northeast High School student handbook, which every student receives at the beginning of the school year" etc. Nothing about parents signing away their property rights.

[Rhino]

The school shouldn't have the right to take the student's phone in the first place. If they make a policy that says you cannot use your cell phone during class, then the appropriate response to a student breaking that rule is to kick that student out of class, not to take that student's property.

[DEATFBIRSECIA]

^This.

[Porque Pig]

What part of in loco parentis do you not understand?

[UnCivilServant]

Why the school has to be crazy parents.

[Porque Pig]

When I was 11, my mom took away the Victoria's Secret catalog that I found in the dumpster, and she never let me have it back. Are you saying she was crazy?

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Did you pay her the storage fee?

[UnCivilServant]

Are you actually this obtuse, or did you just have your sense of humor surgically removed?

[Porque Pig]

I don't consider my law and order positions to be something to joke about.

[UnCivilServant]

Everything is something to joke about.

[Porque Pig]

Typical glib attitude. That's why the liberty movement is in the shape it's in... nobody takes things seriously. The rest of the political ideologies are serious, very serious.... and they're eating the liberty movement's lunch out there.

[UnCivilServant]

You have made an assumption - a very incorrect assumption - that because I loiter here that I must therefore be a libertarian.

Also, your stance of "Bow down before the arbitrary decisions of the all-mighty petty tyrants" does not mesh with a 'liberty' perspective.

[Porque Pig]

My stance is not nearly that simplistic. You can't have liberty without authority. The question is where the bounds of authority are, not whether it should be obeyed.

[UnCivilServant]

Actually, it's very easy to have Liberty without authority. The two forces are quite often at odds with each other. While it would mean you'd have to defend your own liberty, the only function "authority" serves is to outsource that defense - a role it is currently failing at.

[Porque Pig]

You could defend your own liberty today. When the cops show up at your door for breaking the law you could use force against them to keep them from taking your liberty.

Yes, you probably wouldn't succeed, but you wouldn't be any more likely to succeed against the armed gangs (currently suppressed by govt) that would show up at your door and do far worse to you without caring whether you broke a law.

[UnCivilServant]

A: the armed gangs are not being suppressed by government. All government does is show up after the fact and file a report.

B: the police are an armed gang sponsered by government, so you have struck an apt comparison. However, given the recent excesses, the gang-bangers from the neighborhood I grew up in are actually kinder and more predictable than the cops.

C: I hope you like living on your knees, because you're pleading to become a serf.

[sarcasmic]

The question is where the bounds of authority are, not whether it should be obeyed.

Spoken like a true slave.

[Rich]

That really is, um, quite an utterance.

[straffinrun]

Nietzche wasn't a libertarian so you can't say that.

[Swiss Servator, faul B??gg!]

"You can't have liberty without authority."

Good God.

[Ivan Pike]

Good God.

And now we're back to authority.

[Rhino]

Where the bounds of authority ARE, does not necessarily indicate where they SHOULD BE. That's the Naturalistic Fallacy.

[Porque Pig]

I meant the question to be where the bounds should be. That wasn't clear in my post, apologies.

[Tonio]

Dude, PP appears to be clinically insane. Your time to waste, but it's a sticky trap.

[Rhino]

Did she give you a Sports Illustrated Swimsuit Edition to use until the end of the quarter?

[DEATFBIRSECIA]

I lol'ed!

[Invisible Finger]

No, it just explains partly why you're such an asshole.

[Jordan]

File a police report for theft. If that doesn't work, Fifth Amendment lawsuit.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Writ of replevin.

[JohnTheRevelator]

Dad's or Mom's signature is probably on a document stating they read and agreed to the student manual, including the confiscation policy. If not, they may have some sort of claim.

On the other hand, the principal is knee-slapping funny in claiming claiming protection against unannounced recording while being a public official in a public facility.

[Agammamon]

Is this a new thing? Because I don't remember a single public school I ever went to that had a 'student manual'.

[JohnTheRevelator]

Perhaps new since ...1993? Which is when I was in high school. Now I have kids, and they always have a student conduct manual, though they don't always ask anyone to sign it.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't be especially conciliatory in this dad's position either, but if he literally signed up for that policy, the oops is on him.

[Agammamon]

Hmm, I graduated in '90 - so maybe its a NE thing?

I wouldn't be so hard on the parents, its not like you can effectively *refuse* to sign the thing unless you can pony up the money for private schooling.

And like software licenses - do you actually read and agree with *every* one?

[Rhino]

What would be the consequences of refusing to sign the conduct manual if you disagree with it? Perhaps your kid is disallowed from attending the school you are forced to pay for in either case? Might be why some schools with conduct manuals don't bother to ask anyone to sign it.

[Tonio]

They've been a thing for a while, at least in certain jurisdictions.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

The school's statement didn't mention parental signatures: "According to the Northeast High School student handbook, which every student receives at the beginning of the school year..."

[Scruffy Nerfherder]

On the other hand, the principal is knee-slapping funny in claiming claiming protection against unannounced recording while being a public official in a public facility.

It's the People's Gulag of Pennsylvania, it (unfortunately) is a crime.

[Rhino]

Unfortunately, most of Pennsylvania is pretty conservative, but they get beaten down by the will of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh.

[Invisible Finger]

NEVER interact with the police.

[Rich]

one wonders why a schoolkid needs an iPhone 6.

Indeed, why does anyone *need* an iPhone?

[UnCivilServant]

Not enough smug in their diet?

Anti-social signalling?

Need to announce a lack of common sense?

[sarcasmic]

I see Tulpa's mom let him use the computer again.

[This Machine]

Yeah. I thought we all knew which handle that shitstain was using now, and no one would bother responding. I was wrong.

[Swiss Servator, faul B??gg!]

Same old Tulpa...

[Porque Pig]

I change my handle, you mock glibly and complain. I don't change my handle, you still mock glibly and complain.

I'm beginning to wonder if there's any course of action, other than being silent about my beliefs, that would make you people happy.

[sarcasmic]

Ritual suicide?

[DEATFBIRSECIA]

*Mocks glibly and complains*

[Invisible Finger]

I'm beginning to wonder if there's any course of action, other than being silent about my beliefs, that would make you people happy.

I'd be happy if you upped the dosage.

[Cloudbuster]

I couldn't put up with this crap for a minute. However, I just cut the Gordian Knot straight off about 25 years ago and homeschooled all my kids. Absolutely no patience for educrat bullshit.