Free-Range Kids

Maryland Parents Panic When Their Kids Are Once Again Confiscated By CPS

"You don't understand how cruel bureaucracy can be."



Danielle Meitiv, the Maryland Mom who lets her children play outside by themselves—despite the government's ridiculous demands—just called me. She and her husband were on their way to the Child Protective Services Emergency Crisis Center. Why?

The police picked up the kids while they were outside again sometime Saturday afternoon, and this time the cops took them without telling their parents.

The kids, ages 10 and 6, were supposed to come home at 6:00 p.m. from playing. At 6:30 p.m, Danielle says, she and her husband Sasha were pretty worried. By 8:00 p.m., they were frantic. Only then did someone from the CPS Crisis Center call the parents and tell them that the police had picked the children up.

"It was dark!" said Danielle, her voice shaking. "You know, I'd really had a nightmare about this, but I didn't realize they would do it. I didn't think they would. The kids must be terrified."

"What did CPS tell you had happened?" I asked.

"They wouldn't tell me anything about my children."

Husband Sasha Meitiv, raised in the Soviet Union under complete state control, told his wife he was less surprised. "He said, 'You don't understand how cruel bureaucracy can be,'" said Danielle.

I think we all are beginning to understand just how insane, paranoid, and vindictive the state can be when it comes to respecting human rights—in this case, the right of parents who love their kids to raise them the way they see fit. And the right of kids, all kids, to be outside, part of the world, without having to worry about police snatching them off the street and holding them for hours without even letting them make a phone call.

According to MyFoxDC, the children were released back into the Meitiv's custody but were required to sign a "temporary safety plan," which prohibits them from letting the kids go outside by themselves:

The Meitivs say CPS didn't call them to let them know they had the kids until about 8 p.m. The Meitivs drove to CPS to pick up their kids, but say they were told to "take a seat" and initially weren't given any information about their children, except that they were there. 

Just after 10:30 p.m., the Meitivs were reunited with their kids. They had to sign a temporary safety plan to take them home. which means they are not allowed to leave the children unattended at all. 

The Meitivs' 10-year-old son told reporters they sat in the police car for about two hours before they were told they would be dropped off at home, but instead, they went to CPS in Rockville.

Stay tuned for updates.

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  1. Goddamit, what the fuck?

    My apologies to readers of this comment. I hope that my delicate point about these poor kids and their family hasn’t gone unnoticed.

    1. I don’t know why you people are so surprised. We in government decreed that a 15 year old kid be sterilized like a dog: http://youareproperty.blogspot…..r-our.html
      With that in the history books you should be grateful that the parents were EVER told what happened to their kids.

      Don’t worry, everything we do is legal, or eventually declared to be legal by our judges.

    2. Trudy Kahn – Montgomery County CPS Administrator
      Home Address & Phone number:

      19423 Battleridge WAY
      Montgomery Village, MD 20886
      (301) 926-3708

      Owner Information
      Owner Khan Trudye J
      Est. Market Value $190,300
      Tax Amount $1,682
      Tax Year 2015
      Property Details
      Acres 0.047
      Bedrooms –
      Bathrooms 2
      Year Built 1972
      Land Sq. Ft. 2,054
      Living Sq. Ft. 1,626

      1. So all of this is just the Wrath of Khan?

        sorry, sorry…. /ducks head

      2. Surprisingly reasonable taxes.

  2. Vile, evil, worthless fucks. Actually worse than worthless as having them do their “jobs” makes everybody worse off.

    1. Those are the correct adjectives yes. Sadly, if I were these parents I’d be trying to move away from this bureaucracy into a jurisdiction that doesn’t (yet) have a hard-on for harassing my family.

  3. Sounds like state sponsored kidnapping.

    1. According to MyFoxDC, the children were released back into the Meitiv’s custody but were required to sign a “temporary safety plan,” which prohibits them from letting the kids go outside by themselves

      Annnnnnd we’re done. Pack it up, boys. It’s over. If this shit flies, we might as well concede defeat.

      Christ, though. What a mindfuck.

      1. Exactly, if they can force you to change basic parental choices without any due process in order to keep your kids, they can force you to do anything. There are no more rights.

        1. Due process = “Sign this or we keep the kids”

        2. This is simply civil asset forfeiture. With children playing the part of “assets.”

          1. “This is simply civil asset forfeiture. With children playing the part of “assets.””

            The courts have actually been pretty consistent on this. CPS and the police do NOT have a right to take children without a court issued warrant, unless there is clear evidence the children are in “immediate danger” for which the bar is pretty high. In all other cases they need a warrant and need to try “all possible avenues” to keep the children with their parents.

            The problem with this is:

            1) It takes 36 months for this ruling to go through the courts, during which time your children are raised by someone else
            2) The CPS and police agents at fault have qualified immunity and face no penalty for illegally seizing children.

            So we all have our rights in the court system, but it is in theory only.

            This is how incremental erosion of rights happens. First everyone turns a blind eye to the government seizing $10K in cash from drug dealers because they are bad. But once government agents learn they can get away this, next they start seizing children.

            1. So we all have our rights in the court system, but it is in theory only.

              Effectively, then, CPS has the right to do any damn fool thing they want to, and after a few years fighting them in court, a judge may point out that what they did was, yes, illegal. And then they appeal.

              Theoretical rights aren’t effectively any different than theoretical fairy wands.

      2. required to sign a “temporary safety plan,” which prohibits them from letting the kids go outside by themselves

        Under the ordinary rules of contract law, this document would be null and void. You cannot use the threat of kidnapping someone’s children to force them to sign a contract and have that contract enforced. It is a pretty basic concept of common law.

        But those niceties are not for the enlightened few who are chosen to lead us all, are they?

        1. Beyond the element of coercion this was not contract at all because their was no offer and no consideration given.

          It’s a pseudo contract disguising naked tyranny.

        2. I hope the parents signed “without prejudice” above their names. It’s a common law protected declaration that you don’t concede any rights or make any legal binding promises to appear or testify etc…

      3. Remember: You don’t sign anything under duress, when the government’s the one doing the duress.

        1. They wanted their kids back. Likely otherwise it would have been months, at best, before they got them back.

          1. That’s what makes these cases so awful. You just can’t sacrifice your kids’ well being to make a stand on principle.

          2. “We are leaving here with our children. I am signing nothing. You have no right to hold them, and they are in no danger. If you want to stop me, realize right now that will only happen through force, and I will litigate until MoCo has to beg in the street for nickles. If you are going to arrest or otherwise detain me, you will present charges, or I will pauper you with wrongful arrest charges. If you charge me, I will drag the case through every court in the land, and in front of every camera.

            So, am I going to leave with my children, or are you going to nail yourself to the cross of your bureaucratic cowardice?”

            1. They would nail themselves to the cross, you would go to jail, and the kids would go to a foster home.

    2. State sponsored kidnapping is exactly what this is.

  4. The police picked up the kids while they were outside again sometime Saturday afternoon, and this time the cops took them without telling their parents.

    Stranger danger is real.

    1. Yeah, I guess they really did have to worry about the police.

    2. I make sure my kids are continually supervised and have no conception of personal boundaries. I figure they might get raped on occasion, but they’ll follow the order to drop the crayons when the police have their carbines leveled.

    3. Memo to kids in Montgomery County: if you answer a summons from a cop,you will be kidnaped; if you run away, you will be shot in the back. As the helicopter-parenting lobby keep telling us, things are no longer as innocent as they were in the days of Ozzie and Harriet…

  5. “I think we all are beginning to understand just how insane, paranoid, and vindictive the state can be when it comes to respecting human rights?in this case, the right of parents who love their kids to raise them the way they see fit.”

    I grew up in Montgomery County–but get the hell out of there.

    Some local bureaucrat is taking this personally, and they aren’t going to stop until his or her anger has been completely satiated. By then, those children may be terribly traumatized–if they haven’t been already by this sick bureaucracy.

    Don’t the local CPS have enough legitimately neglected children to deal with?

    And I don’t think you can depend on the federal employees that populate that area to stand up for the rights of parents against a government bureaucracy either.

    1. Don’t the local CPS have enough legitimately neglected children to deal with?

      Yeah, but dealing with the crazy cat lady who keeps the dozen adopted special needs kids in the basement requires, you know, work and stuff. Better just to pick the easy fruit and say you’re making a difference.

      1. Not even the easiest fruit, but the highest-profile fruit. The fruit that had the temerity to gainsay, and then publicize having gainsaid, their operation.

        This is reprisal.

        1. This is reprisal.

          Precisely and quite obviously. Take whatever hit it requires to your career and move to another state. Do not pass go, do not collect your $200. When a petty bureaucrat has you in their crosshairs, you do not have the upper hand. Just go.

          File your injunctions and protective orders from another state, if you want to make a stand for parental rights, but don’t do it from a location where they have power over you. And where they are right now, these CPS bureaucrats have nearly absolute power over them. Even if the courts eventually side with the parents, the kids will likely end up under state supervision for the rest of their childhood. Perhaps even in foster care for the next few years. I appreciate those who fight the good fight for all of us, but the cost here is too high.

          1. You know, people pull in half a mil in gofundme’s for less than this. I’m sure they could get their moving expenses plus some spending cash in short order. I’d be tempted to say they aren’t exploiting this a little more, but since I saw them on the today/GMA a couple months ago, I’d say that’s just what they are doing.

            1. I’d donate to that. This is completely fucked up.

      2. and say you’re making a difference

        They are making a difference.

        Kids who can’t go outside without their parents grow into adults who can’t go outside without the government.

        1. Something tells me that these particular kids will be inculcated with as deep distrust government.

          1. It is happening to quite a few other kids besides these particulars kids as well.

    2. Don’t the local CPS have enough legitimately neglected children to deal with?

      From dog catcher to VP Biden, I think that the social workers on the front lines may lay claim to the only truly over-burdened government workers in the country. Certainly seems that way in Florida.

    3. “Don’t the local CPS have enough legitimately neglected children to deal with?”

      That’s ridiculous. If children are being legitimately neglected by licensed practitioners, it’s not the government’s job. Same goes for the CPS neglecting the little whoresons. Outside interference with a a thorough internal investigation would interfere with their total authority over parents. Their job is to vicariously punish unauthorized parenting, not provide babysitting.

  6. Great point, SusanM!

  7. Get an injunction.

  8. Husband Sasha Meitiv, raised in the Soviet Union under complete state control, told his wife he was less surprised.

    Time to look for another country.

    1. It’s pretty fucked up when spmeone can be like: “Meh, this is like when I was growing up in Soviet Russia.”

    2. Turns out Pravda was right!

  9. This is the sort of thing that usually happens in act 1 of one of those violent revenge quest movies.

    1. Can we cut to the end, where the villain gets impaled after getting set afire?

      1. I don’t often go to the movies. . . but damn me if I wouldn’t fork over the dough to see the petty bureaucrat get theirs. . .

  10. I just realized why my progressive-leaning lefty friends, which, as a college student, I’ve a few, are so much happier making their political diagnoses and prognostications. A part of it is safety in numbers, sure, and some of it is the certitude that a few years into the collegiate experience offers anyone espousing generally lefty ideals, but mostly, I think, it’s the pleasure of contriving novel and exciting policies or programs to address some old problem. Never having to admit, much less deal with, their many failures. They’re high on their own innovation. We’re only ever the reactionaries responding to their horrendous, and horribly entrenched, failures. But they’re above us all planning the next batch.

    1. They’re high on their own innovation.

      Which is ironic, since they never have any. Robbing Peter to pay Paul is as old as politics itself.


      1. Their “innovations” are nothing more than repackaging old ideas.

        The Progressive label is in fact entirely incorrect. Progressivism implies moving forward, which the current progressive movement is not in fact doing. What seems to be lost is their direction is in fact moving backwards, it is “Regressivism” in actuality.

        True progressives were those who broke the bonds of feudalism and instituted individual rights for common people. That was progress. Yes they were not perfect and did not extend those rights to everyone, but even with that they still significantly expanded rights for most people.

        Today every single one of those individual rights are being taken down one at a time, and with that we are regressing right back to where we started. It’s time to make exit plans.

  11. Seriously, I will cheer if someone just leaves a Taken-style trail of dead bureaucrat bodies miles long.

    If this were a movie, Sasha Meitiv would be some terrifyingly-OP ex-Spetnaz commando or some shit that would rampage through the ranks of his enemies.

    Seriously, though. The bureaucrats have reached the point where they are absolutely convinced if their mastery. Nothing but death and fear will stop them now.

    1. And this shit will never end until the wrong scab is scratched and results in serious pushback.

      How it is that cops, social workers, judges, irs agents, tsa bullies, ad nauseam are not visited off duty by abused citizens and knee capped or worse, escapes me. This is the very definition of kidnapping. As a parent, I will sit silent until my family is reunited.

      And then plan my hunting trip(s). I firmly believe that I am patient enough, unforgiving enough and smart enough, to see it done and remain free.

      1. “I firmly believe that I am patient enough, unforgiving enough and smart enough, to see it done and remain free.”

        The government has really only had to contend with criminals who are not the brightest, the smart ones into crime go into banking and government. When things get so bad that your average intelligent person starts to push back, they will have no idea what to do but clamp down in such a manner that many more are forced to push back as well.

    2. That was my thought upon reading this. If these CPS people, and their enablers the police, don’t cool their shit, someone is going to get shot.

  12. I can’t think of a printable response to this article.

    1. Cursive if fine.

  13. I hope the Meitivs ultimately prevail, but if I were them I think I’d be planning to move by this point — either to some neighboring township with hopefully less jerkweed cops, or possibly another state entirely. I would think there’d be places just over the border in Pennsylvania or Virginia that wouldn’t be too awful of a commute. This has clearly become a personal matter for the local authorities trying to beat them down.

    1. Yeah, and where they are they’re maybe an hour away from Lancaster, which is a pretty cool place to live. Much less Kafka-esque as I understand it.

      1. I live in Silver Spring. It’s more like 2.5 to Lancaster. Virginia is maybe 30 minutes, or DC essentially abuts SS.

        1. My office is near Dulles, and one of my co-workers comes in daily from Parkton, north of Baltimore. He arrives at 5 am to cut down on the traffic

  14. were required to sign a “temporary safety plan”

    The “fuck you, do what we say!” plan.

  15. Future generations of Americans will be completely incapable of dealing with any form of catastrophe. We’re already unable to come up with any answers on how to deal with the primarily bureaucratic problems we’ve brought upon ourselves past creating even more bureaucracies.

  16. If this is the stuff they do openly, knowing the family has the ear of a journalist with national exposure…. just imagine the things they do when they think no one will know.

    1. Wasn’t many years ago they were stealing specific types of children for higher prices they fetched in their selling stolen children for profit schemes. As for being incredibly rotten humans they haven’t changed much.

    2. I can tell you what they do when not in the public eye. They ruined the life’s of everyone in my family.
      It all started when my 7 month old son got a huge bruise on his forehead. I tried to tell his regular doctor that he bruises to easy but she shrugged it off and rushed me out the door. So when he got this huge bruise I figured I’d go to the ER and maybe they would do testing to find out why he bruises so much. They did no! They just keep harassing me saying that me and my child were abused by my boyfriend (now husband). I asked for a different doctor saying mine was to ignorant to do anything. He came in and told me I had to respect him. I said no I don’t. He insisted that yes I do. I said why because you have a degree? I have a degree and you not respecting me. He said because I can have your kids taken away. I didn’t believe he could. So I told him he was a pompous a-hole. Turned out he could. They took all 4 of my kids away. Testing found my son had a bruising disorder. And even with doctors papers and a lawyer the were able to still say that he didn’t. Finally after two years of fighting they plead bargained with me and my husband. We are considered “indicated ” for 5 years. I was a teachers aid. For 2 more years I am unable to work in that field now.

      1. Tar and feather the SOB. Then set him alight.

      2. My first wife was emotionally destroyed when they seized her daughter from her over incredibly bogus reasons. She loved that girl more than anything in the world. Yeah, I can really understand what you’ve been through.

  17. Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
    This is wha- I do…… ??????

  18. Now, now, folks, don’t you know, it takes a Village.

    That pathetic bit of sarcasm is pretty much all I can muster without breaking into paroxysms of rage.

    1. It takes a village…to raise a village idiot.

  19. My wife and I are working towards becoming foster parents, and this is truly unbelievable and as others pointed out clearly a bureaucratic vendetta.
    We live in a state that places more emphasis on parents’ rights and keeping families together over children’s rights. But we learned in our classes usually nothing happens on the first call unless its quite egregious or DCYF was called in after a midnight raid and emergency housing is needed for the kids. In my state, the state still works toward reuniting the kids with their parents even if the parents are in jail (I assume probably for drug offenses rather than child abuse).

    Looking back with what I learned from the foster classes, what transpired at the first run in with DCYF was a bureaucrat was already out of line and hell bent on making the parents suffer (the first sign said employee does not belong in DCYF or understand the basic principles of family and trying to keep families together).
    On the run in with DCYF, the family was forced to sign a document to not let their kids play at the park alone. That is way out of line for a first offense, let alone such a trivial one.

    1. t’s terrible that this happened, but I think the parents need to lawyer up and should have after the first coerced document signing. It’s great to have the media on their side, but they may not save them or save them in a timely fashion. A good lawyer familiar with DCYF would’ve shot down these absurd documents and highlighted the fact that this family was being mistreated and DCYF was not following protocol.

      Sorry if this is long winded rambling or confusing. It’s a pre-caffiene post.

      1. The general impression I get is that they don’t have a lot of money. And/or they don’t really understand the importance of good representation when dealing with the government.

        If they are reading this blog by chance, please follow his advice. Get a good family lawyer. And then move out of Maryland. You have made yourselves the poster child for CPS now and I doubt the harassment will quit. Forget that they are evil bureaucrats for a moment, they are people. And people tend to think they are doing the right thing. And now these people have been challenged on National TV. Twice. If you think they are going to re-examine their behaviour at that point and admit they are wrong you don’t understand people.

        They will rationalize their way into being right. They will not change. In their mind you will be more and more the villains. They will be even more motivated to win. This is the normal reaction to having your work ethic and competence challenged by outsiders.

        You can see this in the comments on the news sites. There’s a ton of support, but there are also a ton of people with the “don’t they understand the dangers to kids these days?” sort of attitude. Being right isn’t going to win this argument. Pick up your ball and go home. By which I mean take your kids and leave Maryland.

  20. Get out of Maryland. Period.

    1. as I stated above, a gofundme outta do it right about now…

    2. I live in Annapolis, so I’m about an hour south of MoCo. Montgomery County is like the worst of Maryland concentrated in one area. It’s like the Death Star or Mordor for Maryland Progressivism. If you look in the WaPo forums for their coverage, you’ll see people outraged at the treatment of the parents, but you’ll also see people saying things like, “It doesn’t matter if I agree or not, it’s the law,” or “CPS should take the kids and put the parents in jail,” or, charmingly, “Maybe they’ll have a different opinion when their kids get kidnapped by a child molester.” Those people are MoCo residents.

      Maryland sucks, but MoCo is the worst of the whole state. They should move immediately, and I mean immediately. And then it should be nuked from orbit.

      1. And then it should be nuked from orbit.

        Hey! There’s a couple of us in Monkey County who aren’t statist meat puppets.

        Give me a couple years. I’m working on getting out of here. *Then* you can nuke it.

        1. I’ll drop leaflets, but I’m just saying you might want to have a bugout-bag ready.

        2. We left Baltimore County a little less than a decade ago and it was the best decision we have made. In most likelihood you will love sellinf a house at Maryland prices and buying one at non-Maryland prices.

        3. Ion Cannon Ready

      2. “It doesn’t matter if I agree or not, it’s the law,”

        I’m pretty sure these are the same people who recognize that Islamism remains a real danger to western civiliztion. In their heart of hearts, they understand what it means to obey divine authority.

    3. That’s good advice in almost all situations.

  21. This seems to be obvious pay back for bringing negative attention to the couple’s first interaction with the bureaucrats. It’s insane that whichever bureaucrat decided to make this payback move, that is guarranteed to bring more negative attention to the department, feels so safe in their position that they fear no reprisal for this.

    1. I agree. Tar and feather that asshole, and the rest of them will be on their best behavior for days, maybe even weeks.


  22. So can we get the names of petty bureaucrats involved with phone numbers to create a shitstorm upon the bureaucratical scum of angry phone telling them what we think of kidnapping and violent harassment

    1. Because they see it as “death threats” that “trigger” them, the phone calls and harassment just martyrs these people. They are not rational, they are not sane.

  23. Just getting the kids off to school this morning and I saw the teaser for this story on CBS’s Morning show. So maybe they’ll get a little national attention for the issue. I hope they don’t end up charged with felonies as a result…..

    1. Just watched the CBS segment. Their legal analyst in the studio let us know that under Maryland law, the parents did nothing illegal. She also told us that if the parents and their group (other free range parents) had money they could contest the law and the behavior of the police and CPS.

      But she left us with the status of the law (kids unsupervised outside is not against the law, inside or in a car is) as a loophole. So probably dangerous and the parents shouldn’t do such things until they fix the law. And she’s sure the authorities have the best intentions. And with the tag line of “it is hours where the parents don’t know where the kids are, and the kids don’t know where the parents are.” -big frown-

      So, a mixed bag. They are raising awareness, but at the same time they are covering their butts with the authoritarian crowd. The final tag of the story seemed to come down on the side of “kids shouldn’t play outside without a parent until they are teenagers”.

      1. Oh, forgot to mention: The legal analyst said that after they got a finding of “unsubstantiated neglect”, letting their kids roam outside was the same as going into court and being found guilty of a felony and given five years probation and then going out and committing the crime again. “A judge isn’t going to look kindly on that.”

        They had 60 days to appeal the “unsubstantiated neglect” finding. Don’t know what happened there.

        1. What sense would it make to appeal that? The only way to traverse a finding that a fact is unsubstantiated would be to substantiate it! “Unsubstantiated” means “no evidence of”. Not just “unproven”, but “unsubstantiated”. No substance!

      2. When I was that age, I would run around for hours on my own. Like all day.
        I was pretty sure my mom was at home, but of course, I couldn’t be 100% sure.

        1. Same thing here. The rule was be home when the street light came on. During the summer I was out the door by 8 AM and back around 9 PM. Basically for 13 hours a day my parents had no idea where I was. Nothing happened to me, my friends, or anyone I ever knew.

          1. “Mom! I’m going to go play in the woods!’

            “Be home for supper!”

      3. And she’s sure the authorities have the best intentions.

        Where’s Jules Winfield when we need him.

        Jules: *shoots news anchor* “Oh, I’m sorry, did I break your concentration? You were saying something about ‘best intentions’? Oh you were finished! Well allow me to retort…”

  24. Meanwhile, a kid ends up in a cheetah pen — and there are no arrests! So I guess it all balances out.…..veland-zoo

    1. The story gets better…….the idiot parent who dangled the child over the cheetah enclosure, and then, whoops, dropped the 2 year old, breaking the child’s leg, is an assistant director of a child care facility! In other words, she is exactly the type of child care “professional” that CPS would turn those free-range kids over to! This is similar to that warped child molester Michael Jackson a few years ago dangling his baby over a balcony in front of the media. Sorry, after the first offense of dangling your child over ANYTHING dangerous, you lose the child. Clearly, you are too stupid to care for a human infant. The fact that this woman takes care of other people’s children every day, is just too scary to contemplate. Children + “dangle” + some place dangerous = Don’t do it! Pretty simple….I don’t think most people even need a course on that part of responsible child-rearing.

  25. Malicious prosecution.

  26. The kids, ages 10 and 6, were supposed to come home at 6:00 p.m. … CPS didn’t call them to let them know they had the kids until about 8 p.m. … Just after 10:30 p.m., the Meitivs were reunited

    Let the lawsuits begin.

  27. Jesus Christ, the Daily Mail article on it:…..-ways.html

    ‘Free-range’ children SEIZED by CPS while wandering alone in a park a month after parents were found guilty of neglect but refused to change their ways

    * Police seized Rafi, 10, and Dzora, six, in a Maryland park on Sunday
    * Scientists Danielle and Alexander Meitiv believe in ‘free range parenting’
    * It means the children are afforded total independence from infancy
    * The Meitivs were found guilty of neglect in March but refused to change
    * CPS said the two were responsible for ‘unsubstantiated’ child neglect
    * On December 20 police were called after the children were spotted walking home alone from the park, which is about a mile away

    1. ugh what a bunch of copsucking drivel. its a shame because the Daily Mail (shockingly) has been doing quite a bit of decent coverage of police violence.

    2. Daily Mail should just get it over with and change their name to Pravda.

    3. “In March, the CPS found the couple guilty of neglect for letting the children walk home from school alone.”

      Correct me if I am wrong, but isn’t a guilty verdict supposed to be issued by a jury and not a government bureaucracy? Does the Bill of Rights count for anything anymore?

      1. Youy’re missing the rest of the charge. They were found guilty of unsubstantiated neglect.

        Meaning unproven. Guilty of unproven charges of neglect.

        My gosh, I bet some small-time petty bureaucrat got a tight little thrill from writing that into this family’s file.

    4. I’d expect nothing less from the fucking limey asshats.

    5. The comments by the stupid fucking Brits makes me wonder why we don’t nuke that God forsaken place and put them out of their own misery.

      “The State told them not to do it, so they get what they deserve.” God damn this comment alone makes me hate fucking limeys.

      “It’s just too dangerous out there nowadays.” Completely ignore those facts showing that it’s actually safer now than it was back then.

      Someone even made up some complete bullshit research saying that kids that are left to be independent will grow up to be fucking psychopaths.

  28. In Soviet Russia, CPS takes kids to you!

  29. Here’s a suggestion:

    Tell your kids, next time they see cops, run the other way.
    Run home if possible, but run away.

    1. You want the kids to get shot in the back?

    2. I wonder what the kids will think of state authority when they’re adults.

      1. If you want people to trust the cops, stop using the cops to abuse people for trivial, bullshit reasons.

  30. The news segment included a lot of footage of the family and kids walking and playing in the heavily wooded suburban neighborhood and park. It is absolutely the perfect area for kids to run around and be kids. Probably the same sort of area that lots of HnR commenters grew up in, running around unsupervised for hours at a time waiting for mom to yell for the kids to come and eat.

    The kids were picked up 1/3 of a mile from home. When I was 10 I rode my bike to the neighborhood pool every day during the summer. Often with my 7 year old sister and my 5 year old brother. It was probably more like a half-mile. Maybe 2/3 of a mile. So did about 50 other kids.

    So, have things really changed that much?

    1. Probably the same sort of area that lots of HnR commenters grew up in, running around unsupervised for hours at a time waiting for mom to yell for the kids to come and eat.

      I miss hearing that so much. It was a daily ritual growing up, around 5:30 you would start to hear the calls through the neighborhood, then you would look at your friends and say, “see you tomorrow.” Thinking about that almost makes me regret not having kids.

      Probably a good thing I don’t have kids, because if CPS did this to me I would be in jail for beating the snot out of some CPS punk for snatching my kids.

  31. To echo the other comments, this family needs to get out of Maryland. Not only are the CPS bureaucrats plainly out for blood, they have an army of willing accomplices amongst the population who are spying on these kids and just waiting for the chance to be “good citizens” and phone the cops.

    Fuck. We supposedly won the Cold War. How did we end up behind the Iron Curtain?

    1. Well, after we tore theirs down, we put up our own…

  32. Also clearly there are far too many CPS officers if they are wasting time on bullshit like this.
    Time to cut their budget by 20-30%.

    1. Frankly I think they should cease to exist entirely. The potential for abuse is too high. Criminal conduct a la child abuse is a matter for police. Orphanages cam be handled by charities. The state should have NO ROLE in parenting any child.

      1. I think there is a role for having some people who are equipped to deal with children in a humane way. If we gave the job to the cops they would be swat raiding people’s homes, ala Elian Gonzales, every time there was an abuse allegation.

    2. Notice how they choose to spend their time. Do they investigate real abuse where the solutions are hard? Like among the poor immigrant community? Or do they take the easy road and bully a middle class family about their practices.

      1. Well, often times real abusers are generally violent people who might actually be dangerous. Middle class people like the Meitivs, OTOH, aren’t dangerous and harrassing them allows the CPS fucksticks to feel powerfull and improtant without actually having to confront anyone who might beat the shit out of them or worse.

      2. Oh, they are plenty involved with poor people, don’t worry.

  33. Move to Pennsylvania, there’s kids running around all over my town.

  34. RAGE lots and lots of RAGE

  35. I’ve got a daughter on the way, and it’ll be our first kid. I’d always planned on leaving Maryland–the weather sucks, the people are worse, taxes are high and the laws are oppressive–but it’s become painfully clear that if I don’t move before my kid turns 4 there’s a really, really good chance I’ll wind up in jail because I’ve shot a cop or a CPS agent or a busybody neighbor. Like, 100% chance. Like not really a “chance”, strictly speaking.

    1. CPS is everywhere. Unless the argument here is “a few bad apples”, which I don’t believe it is… moving is not enough to ensure the safety of your family. Except maybe if you move out of the country.

      1. Sort of. There are lots of places where they don’t fuck with you because you let your kids walk down the street, though. If cases like this weren’t rare and unusual, they wouldn’t be the outrageous stories that we hear about.

        Of course you still want to be very careful to avoid any interaction with “the system” because once they latch on to you, they don’t let go.

        1. If cases like this weren’t rare and unusual, they wouldn’t be the outrageous stories that we hear about.

          CPS brutality is not rare and unusual. It is par for the course and happens all over. What’s rare and unusual is for anyone in the media to report on it.

          1. Generally speaking I am sure you are right. I’m talking about cases more specifically like this. It is not the norm in most places for kids to get snatched up with no real legal basis like this. Sure, it is something that always could happen. As long as there are police, things like that can happen. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t a whole lot better in some places than others.

            Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

            1. Pithy, and yet incorrect.

              Your innocence does you credit, but I can’t help but feel as if your position that “it isn’t THAT bad, this is an isolated case” is due to the horror you would feel if you truly comprehended the severity of the problem.

              It IS that bad. All over. This CPS agency is in no manner acting outside the norm. This blatant violation of the Meitivs is, in fact, straight-up normal.

    2. Good to be able to laugh, which I did at the last sentence!

    3. Ten years ago we decided that we wantd to leave MD. We noted four or five places that were possibilities then spent time looking at each. We narrowed down to two places and took our next vacations there. We now live at the second place and feel like it was one of the best things we have ever done. You live only once. If you really hate the move find a new place or go back to MD.

  36. Seriously, how is this not kidnapping by the 2 police officers? These are minors, children. Police shouldn’t even talk to them without a parents permission. The children were legally in the custody of the parents, not Children’s Services. They were kept in the back of a police car for more than 2 hours, denied permission to contact their parents, then lied to by the police. These police officers should be arrested and charged with kidnapping, no immunity. The children were outside playing, but they could have been outside to get the newspaper, or pick up a toy, it doesn’t matter WHY they were outside. They were in no danger. Again, why is this not kidnapping? The 2 children were held, against their will, and absent any lawful authority. The police officers should be in jail.

    1. Yeah. They should be in jail for kidnapping every time the arrest someone for drugs or some other bullshit charge too. Good luck with that.

  37. Question: it says they both work as scientists. Do we know where?

    1. From the Daily Mail article one works at NIH in Bethesda, the other is referred to as an “Oceanographer”. Given their location this parent likely works at NOAA – which is a block from the Silver Spring metro stop.

      1. If true this adds a dynamic to this situation.

        They likely can’t move out of state and keep both jobs unless they each can live with commuting four hours per workday (I’m ruling out DC as a viable option).

        If they were a mechanic, nurse, salesperson, chef, teacher, etc. they could find comparable work elsewhere at wages on par with that standard of living. But federal government hacks typically don’t have a valued skillset, especially not one that will come close to what they are getting (don’t forget benefits).

        They left the Soviet Union – they are open to moving. So why not do it now?

        1. You can commute to both locations from Virginia.

          1. With no guarantee that the idiots in Arlington, Alexandria, Falls Gulch, or Fairfax won’t pull the same shit.

            1. They could, but they’d have to identify and act first. Maryland is dangerous for them now not just because CPS exists but because the MD CPS representatives have identified them as a threat to their authority.

          2. With two young kids at home, I think it is marginally realistic for one parent to look at two hours a day commuting and the other between two and three. And unless the traffic got better over the past dozen years, that is about what they are looking at.

            And as others have intimated, will NOVA CPS treat them appreciably differently than Maryland? I don’t know but wouldn’t wager on it.

  38. These people need to move to Virginia. The bureaucracy has obviously decided to make an example of them. It’s one thing to be principled, it’s another to risk losing your kids because some totalitarian db thinks you’re a threat to his agency’s authority.

    It would be great if everyone from CPS involved in this matter were summarily fired, but that isn’t going to happen.

    1. Outstanding advice. Once you an agency’s target, you cannot change your status. People do not like to have their authority challenged!

      1. That is, once you become an agency’s target, you cannot change your status.

        1. Liked it better before the correction. More ghetto.

  39. If these people don’t move out of that sewer known as Maryland they really should be arrested for child abuse.

  40. “911 what’s your emergency?”……”Quick….Hurry…..You’ve kidnapped my kids!”

  41. Did the US fight and win the Cold War only to become a clone of the Soviet Union?

    1. Apparently, yes.

    2. This is something I’ve thought about. The fall of the Soviet Union was great for the poor souls living behind the iron curtain, but bad for the Free West.
      Without the USSR to serve as an example of how bad totalitarianism is, it seems we have forgotten the dangers of totalitarianism.
      Was it Lovecraft who had the story about how one child had to live in total misery so that everyone else could be happy?

      1. I don’t know. The United States has been slowly going down the path of totalitarianism long before the collapse of the Soviet Union.

      2. Ursula LeGuin – The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas

    3. Still pretty far from that, thankfully. But getting closer all the time. Let’s keep some perspective. We still have yet to forcefully collectivize farming, starving millions of people, seize the property of industrial elite, switch to a single party system, ban opposition press, etc.

      We are heading toward a new kind of tyranny, I think. More like Fascism than Soviet style socialism, I think. But not quite that either. I don’t think we will ever have such a powerful centralized control as either of those. Rather a series of mostly empty figureheads like Obama nominally presiding over a massive bureaucracy mostly motivated by it’s own continuation and expansion.

      1. Perhaps. But does it matter if you are shot in the name of Socialism, the Reich, or The Law?
        And, although your point about perspective is a good one, we must remember that America is not magical, and it can happen here.

  42. Imagine this scenario…two kids are at the local mall, mom is shopping, so the kids are sitting at the food court. 2 adults come along and take the children because they aren’t with a parent. Isn’t this exactly what the police did? It doesn’t even matter that these were police officers who took the children, again, under what authority do the police or anybody just TAKE 2 children, lock them in the back of a car for more than 2 hours, lie to them, then take them FURTHER away from their lawful guardians. Whether the children are outside or not. The kids could have been WALKING HOME FROM SCHOOL! The crime was walking outside? The oldest boy is 10. When we were all 10, we all did this, and most of us watched out for younger siblings while outside playing. When did this become criminal behaviour? There are some seriously professional-grade, Olympic-caliber fucktards running things in Maryland.

    1. In fact, these same parents were previously harassed for LETTING THEIR KIDS WALK HOME FROM SCHOOL! Unbelievable. My rage (and yours, too, I imagine) is difficult to control under these circumstances.

      1. When I was that age you had to walk home from school if you lived within a mile of it.

        1. When I lived in Virginia Beach, it was illegal to walk to or from school. A bus was required, even if you lived across the street. If your kid missed the bus, you were supposed to call the school, which would dispatch another bus just for your kid.

          Yeah, I bet their social workers are totally laid-back, unlike those statists in Maryland.

          1. I’m not saying that Maryland is the only place where horrible crap like this happens. Just that many places are a lot better. Perhaps not Virginia Beach.

            1. I’m glad you clarified. Yes, it did rather sound as if you thought this was a fluke. A one-off. Small localized problem with which no one outside the area really need concern themselves. Easily fixed by simply going elsewhere.

              The clarification helps, though I personally believe “are a lot better” is pretty optimistic. “Could be” maybe, but I won’t believe “are” until I see CPS workers themselves bitching about bad social workers violating rights. You know, like all those good cops do.

              1. what will “tame” CPS goons is to remove the generous federal funding that gets paid to each county’s CPS to seize kids and force them into foster homes. Follow the money… CPS benefits hugely every time they steal a kid and throw out the parents. End that connexion and such incidents will nearly cease. Watch this situation: I am certain CPS in that county will be “observing” that family closely, and will be ready to pounce again given the slightest perceived anomaly, or, more likely, already gathering their paperwork to “justify” stealing these two kids again and terminating the parental rights of their own parents.

        2. when I was eight, I rode m bike four miles to school each way, every day except when it was raining hard. By the time I was 10, I was allowed to ride my bike ten or fifteen miles to visit friends. At 12 I ran my own paper route, and rode all over the place. At 15, I was able to, and did, ride all over Southern California from the Camp Pentleton Marine Base (south end of Orange COunty) all the way up to San Padro, Los Angeles, La Mirada, Norco, San Bernardino, Lake Elsinore, Big Bear…. at times more than a hundred miles from home. Never the slightest worry on anyone’s part. And the worst ever happened was a friend, one fo the few times anyone rode with me, blew out a tyre and I had to jury rig a “boot” go get him home. No wonder today’s kids are irresponsible, can’t make decisions, fill their time with Angry Birds, Hannah Montana, “pro” sports, and sick movies. Hitler was right.. give me the kids and I’ll control everything in one generation. Kids allowed to go as they wish, alone, and be required to conduct themselves well and make good decisions? Oh, may it never BE!!! They MUST be kept tightly controlled, under the tumb of SOME government hooh hah, and never allowed to think, wonder, explore, dream, plan, let alone execute any plans, other than those of the all-knowing all wise all providing state.

          Sorry, I do not believe government to comprise a religion, demanding my fealty and worship.

        3. growing up in Pa, it was a quarter mile for kindergarten to 6th grade, a mile for 7th and up

    2. … 2 adults come along and take the children because they aren’t with a parent. Isn’t this exactly what the police did? It doesn’t even matter that these were police officers who took the children, again, under what authority do the police or anybody just TAKE 2 children, lock them in the back of a car for more than 2 hours, lie to them, then take them FURTHER away from their lawful guardians.

      Does it make more sense if you understand the police to be agents of the state? The two cops didn’t take the children, the state took the children. The state then placed the children into its protective custody until the parents could be located and compelled to agree to the state’s terms. The state, being sovereign, can not be charged with kidnapping. This is not kidnapping. The state does whatever the state deems appropriate. There is no “lawful” when it comes to the what the state will do. It acts by the authority of it being the state and is answerable to no one.

      Oh, and one more thing, the state protects it’s own.

  43. Just as the government murders murderers to demonstrate how wrong murder is, it also kidnaps children to demonstrate that children might be in danger of kidnap.

    1. execution of murders is NOT murder. In fact, if more murders were executed we’d have far fewer of them, and far fewer murders. Your logical connexion is invalid, as the execution of murders IS part of what keeps society safer. However, the kidnapping of children by that same state decreases the safety of children, and everyone else.

      For the government to take up the practice of killing innocents, unprovoked, in random incidents of violence, IS similar to government taking up the practice of kidnapping children. In both cases, unlawful and dangerous behavour is perpetrated by the state, not prevented ir suppressed by it.

  44. Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
    This is wha- I do…… ??????

  45. The loons have taken over. Time to relocate.
    Its cool here in Colorado, and I promise there are like a million big, little, open, forested parks your kids could play in all day with no issues. Give the ten yr old a celly and your good.

    1. And of course,I will always second anybody who talks about how great this state is! Get out of there, come to where the air is thin, the beer is craft, and the parks are for kids!

    2. There’s no CPS in Colorado? I did not know that.

      1. Of course. But this is hardly typical behavior of all CPS type agencies. There really are still places where you can still let your kids out of your sight.

        1. Your faith is adorable. Adorable. Completely wrong in absolutely every respect, but very endearing.

          1. Your pessimism is depressing.

            It’s not faith, it’s an observation. Maybe it is that awful in most suburban areas. I have no idea because I have never lived somewhere like that.
            People can and do let their kids run free in lots of places. And nothing else happens.

            My point is mostly that the situation is vastly better in some places than in others. I don’t see how you can claim that is wrong. Of course as long as police and other government agents have the degree of immunity and arbitrary power that they have, things like this can happen anywhere. There is also always some chance that a weird dude in a van will come and snatch up your children. I wouldn’t advise all parents to worry about that either.

            1. Of course as long as police and other government agents have the degree of immunity and arbitrary power that they have, things like this can happen anywhere.

              You typed all that out, and didn’t make the connection to it being a nationwide concern. In fact, then went on to pooh-pooh the concern as overblown silliness.

              This is not logical.

            2. also the more likely as federal funds are paid to CPS agancies for every child they capture and toss into their foster care system, In other words, there is a federal incentive for CPS to do precisely this sort of thing. They’ve been “contacted” twice now, and are on the local CPS hotsheet, thus will be watched. It would not surprise me if CPS “consider” their “record” and “decide” the kids are not safe with those parents, and get a court order seizing them, terminating parental rights, and making a huge sum of money from their crime of kidnapping, happily paid out of the federal coffers. These people (the government hooh hahs involved in this sort of nonsense) are mentally deficient and need some reeducation or treatment. Along with immediate replacement.

              1. Yeah, I don’t think this kind of crap would slide around here.
                Not saying that the “public servants” in CO are any better than anywhere else, but I don’t see the people around here putting up with that kind of shit.
                Before I moved back, I was following the story of whoever it was that was recalled, for voting in favor of a gun control law.
                If I remember right, it was the first recall in Colorado history.
                I know that i am a one note song about Colorado, but it really is a great place to live.

                1. And also,I really wish that the Free State Project had chosen Colorado instead of New Hampshire, just because I like the idea of the FSP, but I don’t want to leave here, and I think the FSP could’ve made a huge difference in CO politics..
                  Of course, we do have legal pot, that has to burnish CO’s libertarian credentials. And that’s not even mentioning that Colorado Springs is the birthplace of the American Libertarian Party

  46. I get paid over $87 per hour working from home with 2 kids at home. I never thought I’d be able to do it but my best friend earns over 10k a month doing this and she convinced me to try. The potential with this is endless. Heres what I’ve been doing,


  47. Seems to fit the Federal definition of Kidnapping, for which armed defense is a lawful response…..

    1. Can I get an “AMEN!” for brother Pusher?

    2. and death is the prescribed penalty

  48. In a more civilized time and society, everyone at the CPS office and PD would be drug out into the streets and shot.

    1. Actually, I think more often they had their heads severed from the rest of their body. And then a new crew would take over.

  49. Time to teach the kids a new word: Pedophile. Teach them to scream it loudly and repeatedly when some stranger grabs them.

    It’s the magic word that turns shooting a cop from a felony to justifiable homicide.

  50. Trudy Kahn – Montgomery County CPS Administrator
    Home Address & Phone number:

    19423 Battleridge WAY
    Montgomery Village, MD 20886
    (301) 926-3708

    Owner Information
    Owner Khan Trudye J
    Est. Market Value $190,300
    Tax Amount $1,682
    Tax Year 2015
    Property Details
    Acres 0.047
    Bedrooms –
    Bathrooms 2
    Year Built 1972
    Land Sq. Ft. 2,054
    Living Sq. Ft. 1,626

  51. Earlier commentary on this case indicated that if the Meitivs do not move to another state, they are likely to lose their children. Nothing that has occurred recently points toward a happy ending.

    I do hope the ending _is_ happy. Keep standing up for basic rights. Best wishes to children and parents alike, especially in this case.

  52. I can’t believe how irresponsible these parents are. They should know by now the dangers of letting your children run around outside when there are police out there ready to kidnap them.

  53. Why have these parents not contacted the ACLU or otherwise sought legal help? I’m no lawyer but this sure seems like a violation of constitutional rights to me. I would think there would be attorneys lined up to take this pro bono.

    1. A law firm has taken the case pro bono.

      1. Statement from Meitiv’s lawyers:…..6770517436

      2. Links to funds for the Meitivs: (signup needed, tax deductible):

        GoFundMe (not sure about tax deduction).

        1. Direct Paypal link:

          Direct PayPal link: (tax deductible)

  54. everyone wants to force us to only eat eggs paid by chickens free to roam as they wish, but well-raised children? Nope, the state must become their nanny. Seems like the state are at war with families, and especially children.

    Free range chickens, but kids have to stay indoors? What kind of sick minds approve of this tripe? I’d be suing the coppers and CPS for kidnapping their kids. Law enforcement have a duty to preserve our liberties, not trample upon them. Were I them I’d be looking for another county/state in which to live. This is nuts. What a stupid waste of tax money.

  55. I knew there was at least one Maryland community that decrees something to the effect that any child below the age of 18 must be supervised by an adult at all times (inside, outside, both?).

    So this means that if your kids go outside and you need to do something inside, you must hire a babysitter (who must be at least 18 years old, presumably).

    If you can afford to hire a babysitter for your 16-year-old, you should also be able to contribute to hiring publically funded babysitters for poorer people – who also have a right to occasionally get away from their kids.

    And of course all these babysitters have the right to a living wage (one that will pay the rent on an apartment and food and clothing for at least one person).

  56. Get thee to Virginia, or better yet: Texas!

    1. Oh, and remember: Ex-Governor Martin O’Malley wants to be President.

  57. A lot of mention has been made that the family should move out of the state of Maryland. I would say that had they moved out of the state or had they retained competent legal assistance after the first case they might have had a chance. They apparently did neither, thus exposing themselves to CPS’s retribution. CPS has gone after them for daring to place CPS in a bad light publicly after the first instance. Quietly moving out of the state; CPS would have been indifferent to them. Hiring a lawyer and having the lawyer quietly pushing back on CPS; CPS would have understood the welfare of two brats isn’t worth the administrative trouble of forcing compliance. Causing CPS bad press; now the parents have made things personal for agents of the state, powerful agents of the state.

    This is the second incidence and I’m not convinced moving out of the state would be enough. This is god damn war. If the parents move and leave any kind of forwarding address it isn’t out of the realm of possibility that Maryland CPS will make it their priority to ensure whatever new state the family moves to, that new state’s CPS understands the depraved nature of the Meitiv parents.

    My advise is hunker down and lawyer up real good. There isn’t much room here anymore for conducting a public pissing match with the state. And running might not be enough.

  58. They might be better off going to a whole ‘nother country.

    I spent several months in Hong Kong as a college Junior, and saw kids of all ages riding the MTR (subway) to and from school. There, and in China (where I work), I wave hi and parents smile instead of freak out.

    If someone were to ask me if I like being in a Communist country, I would tell them, “No, but it would make my parents sad if I didn’t come visit occasionally.”

  59. I’d like to remind everyone that what we’re calling “free range parenting” used to be known simply as “parenting”.

  60. Google pay 97$ per hour my last pay check was $8500 working 1o hours a week online. My younger brother friend has been averaging 12k for months now and he works about 22 hours a week. I cant believe how easy it was once I tried it out.
    This is wha- I do….. ?????

  61. I was subject to the wrath of Wallace, a director for MARYLAND Office of Childcare who shut down my free range parenting style daycare for minor regulations violations despite 100% support from the parents and community. I had little to no legal representation. But it was enough that I tried to fight being shut down (single mom with a mortgage and no other job experience). I volunteered corrective action, described alternate safety measures, provided evidence of violations that were an isolated incident in an efnfort to help the families I’ve worked with since their children were infants, and revealed my 8 year spotless inspection record. They do not care about real safety, or community needs and values. I am working on a project to find a pro active, offensive approach to dealing with these agencies. Once they charge you, it is next to impossible to defend yourself, as mentioned in the previous post. I am outraged, as we all should be. It is a matter of time before every parent will be found guilty of something chargeable.

  62. This comes as no surprise when the populace elects people who believe the larger and more government control there is the better it is. Hopefully this breach of the public trust is fully covered by all forms of media so the populace will see what fools they really are in putting these people into office.

  63. The Meitivs ought to hop in the car and take a spin up to Burtonsville and bang on County Executive Ike Leggett’s door and demand some answers.

  64. Ah. “But we must protect the children!” The alibi of tyrants everywhere, coming soon to a playground (backyard, grocery store, classroom, moving vehicle) near you.

  65. I’m making $86 an hour working from home. I was shocked when my neighbour told me she was averaging $95 but I see how it works now.I feel so much freedom now that I’m my own boss.go to this site home tab for more detail….

  66. Statement from Meitiv’s lawyers:…..6770517436

  67. Links to funds for the Meitivs: (signup needed, tax deductible):

    GoFundMe (not sure about tax deduction).

    1. Direct PayPal link: (tax deductible)

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