"Ask a Mexican" Columnist Thinks Mexicans Have Natural Libertarian Tendencies

This week's syndicated "Ask a Mexican" column by Gustavo Arellano exhibits a bit of a "Libertarian Moment" moment, as he notes:

A 2014 Pew Hispanic Center survey showed that 11 percent of Latinos surveyed identified as libertarian—almost as many as gabachos! As I've been writing since you were in high school, Mexican immigrants from the countryside and their descendents (the majority of Mexicans in el Norte) are natural libertarians, what with their up-by-the-bootstraps mentality, skepticism toward government of any kind, hatred of police and love of liberty (let us play our tamborazo in the back yard and raise chickens in peace!)…

Arellano goes on to admit Mexicans tend to blunt that natural libertarian tendency with some social conservatism and old-fashioned social mores.

Arellano wrote a 2012 Reason cover story, "Taco USA".

Comments

[Fist of Etiquette]

Well, I do like to take afternoon naps.

[Almanian!]

Mexicans wear monocles and have slave orphans?

COOL!

[Idle Hands]

hahaha. This is the most reasony reason article ever.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Mexi-cans not Mexi-cants!

[WTF]

And ass-sex and pot.

[John]

Okay. Then why is Mexico so unlibertarian? Do the people who live t here have nothing to do with it? Is it the geography that determines an area's politics?

[BardMetal]

There you go again John pissing on the open border crowd's parade with those silly facts.

The entire history of Mexico is basically the exact opposite of anything that could be described as libertarian.

[Zeb]

I don't know why Mexico is the way it is. But it might be that the libertarian Mexicans head north to get away from it. I can only imagine that the US is a lot more attractive to libertarians.

[John]

Zeb, here is a hint, the people who live there probably have something to do with it being the way it is.

And if the Libertarian ones escaped, show me the libertarian effects they have had on American politics. A huge number of them were granted citizenship in 86 and over the years. So that should have made the US more Libertarian, right?

[BardMetal]

The people who live anywhere is the reason that place is the way it is. Want to know why a place is screwed up? Look at who lives there.

[Zeb]

Who knows, maybe it would be even worse without the Mexicans. Maybe as they assimilated they became more like your typical American, which is not very libertarian.

Who knows? I'm just spitballing here.

[Drake]

Mexicans like to ignore laws, When elections come around, they vote for the guy who promises the most free shit. Then they go back to ignoring the whole thing.

Doesn't really make them Libertarian.

[Episiarch]

Now I want some tacos. Lengua tacos, to be precise.

[John]

And beyond that, is there any place in America that has become more Libertarian thanks to Mexicans moving there? I am not saying there isn't. I just haven't heard of such.

And most of the immigrants coming today are not Mexicans. What about Guatemalans and Salvadorans? They are the groups that matter, not Mexicans.

[BardMetal]

Wait are you suggesting that the great state of California, a state that gave us Republicans like Ronald Reagan in the 80s, didn't become a Libertarian utopia after it's demographics completely changed?

Thank about that for a second. These people with "natural libertarian tendencies" gave us the modern state of Califuckingfornia.

[Episiarch]

Yes, it was the Mexicans who made California what it is today, and not the politicians and the special interest groups. Do you even think about the shit you say? This is a serious question, because apparently you don't.

[Zeb]

Not when it comes to anything involving Muslims or Mexicans, it seems.

[BardMetal]

California went from being a purple state in the 80s to a solidly blue, one party rule state currently. What do you think happened between then and now dumbass?

[Episiarch]

Right, because all the other states with huge Mexican influxes became just like CA. Again, you really might want to think about the retarded shit you say before you say it. Because it makes you look dumb as shit.

[BardMetal]

What made California go from purple to blue in a decade? Did they put something in the water there that made everyone suddenly turn retarded? What changed?

[Antilles]

What changed? The influx of lots of poor, low-skilled people (from Mexico and other places) who rely on public assistance and will vote for anyone who promises to give them more. I've lived here my whole life and have been watching it happen...

[WTF]

Did Texas also have a huge Mexican influx? Arizona?

[Antilles]

Arizona and Texas have made attempts to stem the flow while California pols have gleefully opened the floodgates.

[Agammamon]

'Made attempts' - bullshit. Neither Arizona nor Texas have put any particular emphasis on immigration (with regard to local law enforcement).

At the local level, until recently - as in the last 5 years - local LE's interest has been strictly getting money from the feds for drug interdiction.

Maricopa (and Arpaio's mob) is the only place in the state that has ever made immigration a priority - and that's soley because of the rich old fuckers in Paradise Valley afeared of BSP's. Got to buy those votes somehow.

[MWG]

Whitel liberals made California what it is today... unless you think there's a distinction between the Mexicans who went to CA vs. those who went to AZ and TX.

[Antilles]

Most immigrants have been brainwashed by those white progressives (there's nothing 'liberal' about them) to believe anyone who doesn't have a 'D' after their name is an evil racist. As a result, Republicans have been reduced to an insignificant, powerless minority.

[BardMetal]

Arizona and Texas were already for more conservative then California it takes a lot more to flip them.

But whatever, the fact that California became even more insanely leftist after getting influx of immigrants from Mexico kind of suggests that these people might not have "natural Libertarian tendencies"

But screw it just stick your fingers in your ears and ignore anything that goes against your belief that open borders have no negative consequences whatsoever, and that everyone south of the Rio Grande is a card carrying member of the Libertarian party.

[Antilles]

Paraphrasing a great economist: "You can have open borders, or you can have a welfare state. But you can't have both." Unfortunately, California has both. Hence, all the problems here...

[BardMetal]

Bingo, Antilles nailed it.

[Agammamon]

Then END THE WELFARE STATE.

[Zeb]

everyone south of the Rio Grande is a card carrying member of the Libertarian party.

You give it to that straw man! Yeah!

[BardMetal]

It's not a strawman you fucking dumbass. Did you even so much as read the title of the article? You know the one we are commenting on? The one thats claims Mexicans have "natural Libertarian tendencies"

[jesse.in.mb]

Arizona and Texas were already for more conservative then California it takes a lot more to flip them.

But whatever, the fact that California became even more insanely leftist after getting influx of immigrants from Mexico kind of suggests that these people might not have "natural Libertarian tendencies"

California was already progressive and continued to become more progressive, so the Mexicans did it!

Did you learn rhetoric from Glenn Beck or something?

[BardMetal]

Let me phrase it a different way sense you obviously have a severe learning disability.

California was progressive and became even more progressive after receiving an influx of immigrants that according to the article have "natural Libertarian tendencies."

If California, which used to be a purple state, received an influx of immigrants with "natural Libertarian tendencies." why did it morph into the progressive shithole that it is today?

Doesn't that make you doubt the articles claims just a little bit? or would you rather sit here and continue arguing about things you apparently think I said, but did not.

[jesse.in.mb]

What do you think happened between then and now dumbass?

It's not a question of if you said it or not, because you have at various points throughout this thread. Like there.

I think the headline is retarded, much as I think your mouthbreathing assertion that:

These people with "natural libertarian tendencies" gave us the modern state of Califuckingfornia.

You're oversimplifying CA's history for the sake of your nativist narrative and that's what I'm poking at you about.

[Agammamon]

Hmm, could be because a lot of Mexicans went about their business, *ignoring* the state (like good little libertarians) while the liberals sewed that shit up.

Mexicans didn't vote for the public sector unions. They certainly didn't vote for the prison union.

[jesse.in.mb]

What makes you think it suddenly changed? Many of CA's "elder statesmen" are just the progressive flunkies from SF's '60s/'70s local government who have held on long enough to be in charge. It isn't just Latino enclaves that are voting more blue, even the conservative bastion Orange County with it's mostly white gated communities skews more liberal than it did when Reagan was popular.

Your assessment is retardedly simplistic.

[BardMetal]

I've never said it suddenly changed, it gradually changed.

[jesse.in.mb]

What made California go from purple to blue in a decade? Did they put something in the water there that made everyone suddenly turn retarded? What changed?

[BardMetal]

Do you consider a decade sudden?

[jesse.in.mb]

It is certainly not the longue dur?e in political terms. I'm not sure how you're defining going from purple to blue though or if that process can be clearly marked out over the course of a decade. I'm also guessing if you panned out further from the '60s to now instead of the '80s, CA's political shifts wouldn't look like a clear slide to socialism that you're making it out to.

[Agammamon]

I know - the Mexipocalypse turned Arizona into a 'People's Democratic Republic'.

Oh, wait it wasn't *Mexicans* fucking the state up, it was the *white* liberal arseholes in Phoenix that have been doing that.

FFS, if you're going to point to CA as a state ruined by immigrations then you're going to have to explain Arizona, Utah, and Texas with the same theory.

[MikeP]

What do you think happened between then and now dumbass?

The coastal cities filled up with predominantly liberal influx from the rest of the country.

Conservatives generally reside away from the coast. Those areas didn't fill up because the unpopulated land, e.g., for agriculture, is why people reside there and because the cities there are not the draw that the Bay Area or LA Basin is.

Immigration is California's problem: immigration from other states.

[Antilles]

Good observation, MikeP. The craziest, most radical and leftist people I've met in California all came from somewhere else. This combined with a steady influx of poor, uneducated people (not from just south of the border but also from Asia and Europe) is turning California into a 3rd world country. There's plenty of blame to go around for our predicament, so it's not fair to place it primarily on Mexican immigrants. But I wish more of them were on my side...

[Zeb]

The thing is, Mexicans have always been coming and going from California. If anything, it is the tightening of border restrictions that changed the demographics by preventing people from coming temporarily for work an then returning to Mexico. And white liberals moving there from other parts of the US has had at least as much of an effect on the politics.

Also, as John pointed out, there are a lot more than just Mexicans immigrating.

And if all the Mexicans are the reason for California being so insanely leftist, why hasn't the same happened to Texas or Arizona?

[John]

Because those states were a lot more conservative to begin with Zeb.

[Bobarian (hyphenated-american)]

My experience with mexicans in CA is this...

Mexican born immigrants are for the most part conservative (not libertarian). Their offspring, born in CA, tend to veer much farther left.

The leftist indoctrination camps (aka CA school system) are probably the real culprit here.

Now this a relatively small sample size, based on people I know in Orange County, but I think it is generally accurate.

[Antilles]

Having lived in OC for the past 51 years, I can attest. Most of the Hispanics I've known are socially conservative but fiscally liberal (the worst combination there is, and the polar opposite of Libertarian--no matter what that POS Gustavo Arellano says). But they vote overwhelmingly Democrat since they've been brainwashed to believe Republicans want to eat their children.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

Did America become more libertarian by letting a bunch of Italians, Irish, Poles, Jews, and Germans in?

I agree the premise that Mexicans are culturally libertarian is silly but there's also nothing about Latinos that make them inherently liberal or anti-libertarian either.

Collectivizing races and ethnicities is stupid regardless of who is doing it.

[Episiarch]

Shh, Serious! If you remind them that collectivizing people is retarded, they get super butthurt! Now they'll spend the entire thread trying to prove you're the asshole for pointing that out!

[John]

Did America become more libertarian by letting a bunch of Italians, Irish, Poles, Jews, and Germans in?

Yes, if for no other reason than breaking the old Puritan elite's monopoly on power.

I agree the premise that Mexicans are culturally libertarian is silly but there's also nothing about Latinos that make them inherently liberal or anti-libertarian either.

You can make judgements about a group's overall effect on things without denying that not every member of a group is the same. Just because there are black people like Thomas Sowell and Walter Williams does not mean it isn't also true that black people as a whole support big government.

There is a difference between generalizing and collectivizing. Generalization is talking about a group taken as a whole and is entirely legitimate. Collectivizing is making every individual responsible for the whole and is not.

[John]

The next question is just charming

DEAR MEXICAN: I would just like an answer. As I'm sure you are well-aware, there isn't much let up on the whole "immigration" debate. And whitey (being as white as he can) continues whining about how "the Mexicans took my job" and "non-English-speaking this" and "I can't understand Spanish" that. So, how do I get people to knock it off? I'm just your average, everyday white guy, who nobody really listens to anymore. Anyhoo, whitey complains too much about his job being given away, but it has been shown on television, radio and other media that a lot of people can't handle, let alone keep up with, a lot of the jobs the migrant workers and immigrants get. That, and Mexico has such a diverse and rich culture that everyone just tosses aside (except for the ever-popular Taco Hell). Spanish is also one of the easier languages to learn and is considered to be one of the Romance languages.

Why can't white people learn Spanish, in their own country, and realize how superior Mexicans are.

How about we either agree that everyone can be racist or no one can? No more "its okay for brown people to feel superior to whitey" bullshit?

[BardMetal]

I always found racism from that part of the world hilarious. How do people who live in some of the shittiest countries on Earth get off feeling superior to anyone?

I get it from people from countries that have long histories of science, empire, invention, etc, but what the fuck does Mexico have in their history to be proud of?

[John]

What always amazes me is how often central Americans will talk about how shitty the US is and how much better it is back home. Dude, you fucking left there to come here. If it is that much better, why are you here other than maybe because you are retarded?

[Marshal]

Routinely heard this from a Cuban I dealt with a while back. He wasn't just critical about some aspects of the US, he couldn't talk about anything other than how much is sucked.

Own your choices. If you like it better there go. No one's missing you. If you like it better there "except you can't make a living" then be an adult, recognize the benefit, and STFU.

[Zeb]

How do people who live in some of the shittiest countries on Earth get off feeling superior to anyone?

I don't know. How do you do it?

All racism is fucking stupid, so it's all equally hilarious to me.

[John]

Zeb,

You can be racist by having an unrealistically good view of a group just as much as having a bad view of them.

Seriously, is there anything about Mexican culture and the population that you have any fault with? Are Mexicans just the master race?

[Zeb]

What? I have no particular good feelings or bad ones about Mexicans or Mexico in general beyond the fact that they are human beings whose individual rights should be respected.

[BardMetal]

How do I do what?

[jesse.in.mb]

I always found racism from that part of the world hilarious. How do people who live in some of the shittiest countries on Earth get off feeling superior to anyone?

Wut? Racism, nationalism, etc are great ways to make yourself feel disproportionately better than people who are only nominally worse off. People who are well off don't need to freak out about how terrible their neighbors are by comparison.

[Swiss Servator... Switzy!]

You can't fool me, "Ask a Mexican" is an Onion column - just like "Ask a Bee" or "Ask Sir Mix-a-Lot"

[Antilles]

Who cares what this idiot thinks? Gustavo Arellano is a smug, racist, obnoxious punk! I live in OC and know people who have had the misfortune of dealing with him. He doesn't deserve his modest notoriety.

[Brendon Carr]

Gustavo Arellano spends something like an hour a week blathering away on the Tom Leykis Show for some reason, and it is by far the worst hour of the week. Arellano himself proudly claims to be a Communist, so I am not sure whether he actually recognizes libertarianism nor am I sure it is a good idea to take Arellano's word on it.

[SIV]

Arellano goes on to admit Mexicans tend to blunt that natural libertarian tendency with some social conservatism and old-fashioned social mores.

Just like Americans!

[Bobarian (hyphenated-american)]

What he's describing is conservatism, not libertarianism.

On the fiscal and regulatory side of things you can barely fit a playing card between straight cons and libertarians. The real difference comes in social aspects.

[Bardas Phocas]

Wasn't New Mexico in the mid-40s for the Freeist State in that article a day or two ago?

Must be the white oligarchs there - like in Old Mexico?

[BardMetal]

Wait a sec are you actually blaming people for the governments that they have? But according to some of these posters governments apparently just sort of happen, and have no relationship what so ever to how people vote.

[Heroic Mulatto]

You do realize that from 1930 to 2000 Mexico was a de facto one-party state?, don't you?

[Antilles]

And now, California is a de-facto one-party state!

[Zeb]

That's crazy talk. Obviously all third world countries (or whatever Mexico is/was) are fucked up because they have robust democracies that give them governments that reflect the will and political preferences of the people.

[BardMetal]

Right cause everyone knows countries are successful thanks to luck, or magic, or something, but definitely not the people, or the culture.

[BardMetal]

So is Detroit whats your point?

[John Titor]

In 1990, Peruvian Nobel Prize laureate for literature, Mario Vargas Llosa, called the Mexican government under the PRI as la dictadura perfecta ("the perfect dictatorship").

I can never really tell when Llosa is being extremely sarcastic or dead serious.

[OldMexican]

He was dead serious.

[Zeb]

Yes, the white people of European descent who have historically held most power in Mexico made it socialist and fucked up, just like in CA.

Look, I'm having a bit of fun here. I have no idea if or how many Mexican immigrants are libertarian-leaning. I don't see any reason to disbelieve that 11% of Mexican immigrants are libertarians, or whatever the original article claimed. That still leaves 89% who are probably at least as unlibertarian as the majority of Americans are. A lot of immigrants do come here to work hard and do well by their own merits. Some come to be lazy and collect food stamps too, I'm sure. Just like Americans.

[BardMetal]

" I don't see any reason to disbelieve that 11% of Mexican immigrants are libertarians, or whatever the original article claimed"

So you agree with me that the article's claims are bullshit, but decide to argue with me anyways... why exactly?

[BardMetal]

"Yes, the white people of European descent who have historically held most power in Mexico made it socialist and fucked up, just like in CA."

Yep it's all the white man's fault. Now you sound like a true leftist.

[MWG]

"Yep it's all the white man's fault. Now you sound like a true leftist."

Actually, in the case of Mexico and much of Latin America (I live in Brazil, btw), it largely is.

Or more specifically, it's the upper classes fault. The elite, mostly white (they generally detest interracial mixing) descendants of the Spanish (Portuguese in the case of Brazil) set economic policy for decades, if not centuries, based on corporatism and corrupt patronage. Look at the Forbes list of billionaires of Brazil. Overwhelmingly old wealth from white families. Mexico is no different.

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[phillylee]

I've lived in South Texas for a couple of decades. Hispanics that are from the US and whose families have lived here for generations are somewhat libertarian/conservative.

Those that have just crossed the river tend to be much more socialistic in their thinking. They also have centuries of being kicked in the ass by El Patron, so they tend to bow to authoritarian figures easily.

[Marshal]

Sure they distrust government. But when they get here they're still going to overwhelmingly vote for whoever promises them the most goodies.

[OldMexican]

Re: John,

Okay. Then why is Mexico so unlibertarian?

Because that is what the Wilson government wanted, John.

Where do you think all those Progressive ideas pasted on our 1917 Constitution came from? The moon?

Like, for instance, Art. 27 which clearly said the land belonged to the "Nation". Or Article 123 which said workers had a right to an 8-hour work day.

Who do you think helped a little-know lawyer from the state of Coahuila, who was also a Spiritualist, snatch power away from 30-year dictator (and former war hero) Porfirio D?az when D?az started to get too cozy with Germany and France?

Who later helped depose said little-known lawyer after only 2 years in power?

Mexico is decidedly unlibertarian because that is what the US Government wanted. The hatred that many Mexicans harbor against the U.S. wasn't born Ex Nihilo.

[Xeones]

Yo, fuck Woodrow Wilson.

[OldMexican]

To be fair, Wilson did not help later-president Francisco I. Madero or help depose him. His predecessor did, but the bottom line is that the Progressives had their hand on turning Mexico into a Progressive hell-hole.

[lap83]

"Mexico is decidedly unlibertarian because that is what the US Government wanted."

I don't think someone else can force you to not value autonomy.

[Winston]

Mexico is decidedly unlibertarian because that is what the US Government wanted. The hatred that many Mexicans harbor against the U.S. wasn't born Ex Nihilo.

I'm sure the anti-American Mexican nationalists are trying to repeal those parts and are libertarians, right?

[JeremyR]

Yup, those Aztecs were sure libertarian

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[John]

And if them doing so ruins the quiet enjoyment rights of the property owners around them? Well tough shit I guess.

[John]

Seriously, just because you don't agree with zoning, doesn't mean you also don't agree with nuisance suits. Things like nuisance law and such are just not taken very seriously in some cultures.

[John]

It is not limited to Central Americans but it is in my experience more pronounced. I think it is a defensive mechanism.

[Hamster of Doom]

"Things like nuisance law and such are just not taken very seriously in some lots of cultures."

I wasn't going to comment until a few minutes ago my neighbor started blaring Bon Jovi so loud it's shaking his house. And it isn't even one of the good songs.

People can be idiots about their music. I can understand that. Yappy undisciplined pets who roam wild the second someone leaves a door open, and shit all over the place, and go through the trash and chase my cat, though - those people can fuck right off.

I think if one want to have good neighbors, one must be a good neighbor. Part of that is recognizing what is a true problem, and what is annoying but reasonable behavior.

I'm going to turn on Slipknot now. To cleanse my aura.