Rape

Why Jameis Winston Is a Huge Exception in the Campus Rape Debate

Some rape accusations are true. Some are not.

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The Hunting Ground
The Hunting Ground

For a moment, it looked like leftist-feminist assumptions about a purported epidemic of rape on college campuses had stumbled in the face of too much contrary information. But the campus rape narrative is thriving again, thanks to a new documentary on the subject that revisits the accusations against Heisman Trophy winner Jameis Winston.

The documentary is called The Hunting Ground—a title which implies that campuses are predatory environments for young women—and features interviews with alleged victims of sexual assault who were mistreated by the administrators that handled their cases. It's not been released yet, but debuted to considerable acclaim at the Sundance Film Festival. The trailer brands the campus rape crisis an "enormous" problem and suggests that colleges are complicit in an elaborate cover up of sex crimes.

The Hunting Ground is getting a lot of attention, however, for one major reason: It includes an interview with Florida State University's Erica Kinsman, who accused FSU star quarterback Jameis Winston of raping her on December 7, 2012. Unlike many victims of campus sex crimes, Kinsman contacted the police immediately after the incident transpired. But despite some DNA evidence supporting Kinsman's claims, prosecutors declined to bring charges against Winston. He was also cleared in an FSU code of conduct hearing.

In the film, Kinsman explains that a male student she didn't know bought her a drink at a bar. It made her woozy, and by the time she regained awareness, it was too late: He was raping her back at his apartment. Later, she identified Winston as the attacker. According to The Daily Beast, DNA evidence supported the notion that Winston had raped her.

Kinsman alleges that the Tallahassee police badly mishandled the case. And the officer who conducted the investigation might have had a conflict of interest; he was also a security officer for the Seminole Boosters, an athletic club that fundraises for FSU sports teams.

All that considered, did Winston commit a terrible crime and get away with it? It's impossible to say for sure, but many of the facts do seem to support that conclusion.

But contrary to what many anti-rape activists—including the producers of The Hunting Ground—would have us believe, the Winston case does not resemble the vast majority of campus sexual assault disputes.

KC Johnson, a writer and history professor at Brooklyn College best known for his reporting on the Duke lacrosse case, told Reason that the dispute involving Winston was "almost wholly unrepresentative" of rape cases in general. Unlike Kinsman, most accusers bring their claims to the campus adjudication process, often belatedly. And unlike Winston, most accused students have low campus profiles and scant institutional resources aiding them.

"Based on what's been reported in both the Florida newspapers and nationally, it seems as if Winston received preferential treatment from the Tallahassee Police, and that this treatment precluded any fair resolution of the claim through the judicial process," he wrote. "The idea that most accused college students at most universities would have been treated this way, however, is absurd."

Johnson was not surprised that the authorities would stack the deck in favor of a star athlete from a revenue-generating sport, noted legacy admission, or scion of an important donor family. But these cases, "represent a tiny percentage of the overall number of students accused of sexual assault," he wrote. "The typical student, instead, remains exposed to the guilt-presuming ideological environment of today's campuses."

Certainly, rapists go unpunished. Many universities struggle to adjudicate sexual assaults fairly: Some deprive the accused of due process, while others deprive legitimate victims of justice. And while the police are better equipped to investigate these disputes than college administrators, the criminal justice system often fails survivors of sexual assault. In other cases, it ruins the lives of wrongly accused men.

The trouble comes when people buy in to a one-sided narrative—when they insist that a full quarter of college women will be raped, or that all accusations should automatically be believed, or that colleges everywhere have universally conspired to mishandle sexual assault. Activists have trained themselves to see a pattern, but the truth is a series of random blips. Some occurrences will seem to confirm people's worst fears about the campuses to which they send their daughters, while others will force people to reevaluate their biases in light of the ease with which they believed an absurd story.

Indeed, on that last front, consider this New York Times review of The Hunting Ground, which accepts the film's contention that universities are trying to cover up assaults and asserts that reporters who uncover the truth face a backlash from these institutions:

Underscoring the degree to which media scrutiny of campus rape can provoke swift and severe pushback, Rolling Stone in November was forced to step away from a provocative article focused on accusations of a gang rape at the University of Virginia. The magazine acknowledged that it had erred in relying solely on the word of the accuser, named only as Jackie, and did not try to contact the men she accused.

This is utter nonsense. Rolling Stone wasn't forced to take back its UVA article because the message was unpopular, it was forced to take it back because the story was false. That Rolling Stone's unmitigated disaster of an entry in the campus rape debate could be cited this way—as an example of how difficult it is for accusers to tell their stories—is proof that adhering to the narrative means constantly hammering square pegs into round holes.

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  1. As I read this, I suddenly came up with the solution to the campus-rape problem. We should just close down universities. All of them. They are just too dangerous. We could just convert the football and basketball programs to minor-league teams, which makes more sense. And we also wouldn’t have to worry about the price of college education anymore – there would be nothing to pay for.

    You’re welcome.
    /sits back and sips drink

    1. Better to just keep women from getting higher education degrees as this doesn’t seem to be a problem for men, who never get assaulted. At rape stats this high letting women go to college is condoning rape.

      1. In a world where kids can’t play outside without constant monitoring, it makes sense that women shouldn’t be allowed to go to college.

        1. I volunteer to stay at home and watch all the college age women.

    2. If you want to hear some serious derp, just suggest that we should be teaching young women (young men as well) to take care of themselves in the adult world. The resulting shrill cries of “blaming the victim!!!” will make your ears fall off.

      My parents taught us fellas (they had 3 sons) to be careful who we drink with, be careful about getting drunk in strange places (especially if we’re alone), etc. They had the archaic notion that their job as parents was to prepare us to function as adults in a world that isn’t always safe. No doubt they’d be put in prison nowadays for thinking like that.

  2. The rape obsessives will not be deterred by the UVA scandal. They’re in full blown obsession mode and we’ve seen in the past that when they (meaning all SJW-style obsessives) think they are close to some kind of tipping point or victory, absolutely nothing will deter them. The masks come off, and they do a full court press. Which we are seeing bits and pieces of now.

    It’s like when the gun grabbers thought they had something with Sandy Hook. They went FULL RETARD because they were sure standing on the bodies of those dead children was going to deliver them everything they wanted. Same thing here.

    1. Don’t call it the “UVA scandal”. Call it the “Rolling Stone/Jackie” scandal. Place blame where it belongs. UVA was (almost) an innocent bystander in the whole thing. They never should have shut down the frats, though…

    2. Your ideological blinders are even more opaque than those of the “rape culture” propagandists.

      1. I am Robert Riversong, prophet, teacher, guide, midwife for a world struggling to be born…You are a spark of the universal flame. Welcome to the journey.

        LOL

        1. Except you, who is a willful idiot.

    3. Their embarrassing defeat in the UVA scandal means they will double-down. They have to preserve the narrative, Epi. When the facts get in the way they come up with more better facts.

      But the good news is that the proggie narrative is under heavy assault from all sides. They can no longer afford to make every battle their most important one. Someone will get thrown under the bus and when that happens the coalition will begin to fall apart.

  3. I suspect this movie makes zero difference.

    The True Believers latch onto it as Proof Positive They Were Right All Along, Haterz! Because they are true believers.

    90% of the rest of us will never even hear about it, and certainly won’t watch it, so its a big nothing. The other 10% are obsessives (ahem), but this won’t change any minds.

    Really, recast as an attack on the sports-industrial complex, keying off the special treatment given high-profile athletes, this could have been something. As it is, though . . . nothing.

    1. You mean nothingburger.

    2. It won’t even be a reassuring story to the true believers. At least not so reassuring that they will promote it. The problem with this rape story is that it does not fit the narrative well enough. Sure the accused rapist is a jock. But he is black, and the accuser is white.

  4. You forgot to call her Jameis. You should have called her…

    1. Hitler?

      It’s always Hitler.

      1. Isn’t it sometimes “Eva Braun”???

  5. I didn’t really follow this story when it was happening, so out of curiosity, what sort of DNA evidence was it? I can see DNA evidence proving intercourse, but I’m not sure how DNA proves rape.

    1. DNA can’t prove rape. It can prove one of the elements of rape, the intercourse.

    2. You can hardly get a more accurate eyewitness account than that of a rape victim.

      1. Tony|1.26.15 @ 5:57PM|#
        “You can hardly get a more accurate eyewitness account than that of a rape victim.”

        Yeah, Tony. What was the name of the gal who was ‘raped’ by the lacrosse team?

        1. No, no, the one at UVA.

      2. “Tony|1.26.15 @ 5:57PM|#

        You can hardly get a more accurate eyewitness account than that of a rape victim.”

        Mayella Violet Ewell Was Tellin The Truth!

      3. You just went full Tony. You never go full Tony.

      4. That’s probably true. So what? Citing that as a reason to believe the alleged victim is begging the question.

        1. Oh, don’t go using logic. He was having too much fun enjoying the certainty that comes from assuming what you want to prove.

      5. You can hardly get a more accurate eyewitness account than that of a rape victim.

        Objection! Assuming facts not in evidence!

        She’s not a rape victim unless it can be proven she was raped. Until then, she is an alleged rape victim and the eyewitness testimony of an alleged victim is meaningless because there’s no proof a crime even occurred.

        For example, I could say “Tony came over to my house yesterday and anally violated me with a cucumber against my will” but my ‘eyewitness testimony’ is meaningless unless I provide some sort of evidence that Tony really is the notorious cucumber rapist.

      6. A possibly more accurate eyewitness account would be that of the alleged rapist.

      7. You mean like the Central Park Jogger? Or Cathleen Crowell Webb?

    3. That’s a badly-worded statement that does not comport with what the Daily Beast reported.

      The Daily Beast just says that she went to the hospital that night where the staff did a rape kit procedure on her. DNA found on her was discovered 10 months later to (statistical) be Mr. Winston’s. Of course, this doesn’t prove anything either way regarding consent.

      The major problem was that the case was then left to rot for many months with no investigation, allegedly because of Mr. Winston’s status. Mr. Winston’s DNA was not obtained by the officer in charge and additional evidence that could have easily been uncovered — witness testimony, video evidence, etc. — if an investigation was done promptly was destroyed/forgotten.

      I won’t say Mr. Winston “got away” with anything because, simply, we have no way of knowing… due to the piss-poor investigation.

      1. A few points:

        She did not cooperate with investigators for several months, unnecessarily prolonging the investigation.

        Yes, more evidence could have been collected: video from the bar, testimony from the cab driver, social media msgs and texts (she deleted many before handing over the phone as evidence).

        But, it’s important to note, the physical evidence was collected timely and completely, and contradicts some of her versions of events.

        One can scream into the void about his guilt or innocence but the evidence is, at best, not enough to charge much less convict.

        1. She did not cooperate with investigators for several months, unnecessarily prolonging the investigation.

          The investigator wrote in his file she stopped cooperating, but that’s no more proof than is the accuser’s assertion Winston raped her. The circumstances point to his putting this in the report to justify his inaction.

          But, it’s important to note, the physical evidence was collected timely and completely, and contradicts some of her versions of events.

          You should be specific. I don’t recall this.

    4. the type of DNA evidence that proves they had consensual sex.

  6. Jameis is a representative case … for Heisman trophy winners. His case is about as representative as OJ’s.

    1. and Juanita Broderick’s.

  7. Maybe a true rape culture is one in which telling everyone that 1-in-4 women will be rape in college means that rape is common and not that big of a deal if so many women are going through it.

    1. Interesting. So, by insisting that the rape culture exists, they create it? I could almost believe that if I lost my last bit of faith in humanity.

    2. “Hey, look around. See all these college grads? One in four was raped in college. Doesn’t seem to be bothering them much, does it? Get over it, sweetie. It happens to everyone.”

      1. Ah, the “close your eyes and think of England” approach.

    1. A good rant.

    2. Wow, I didn’t know I had a clone!

      ha ha, just kidding. Sort of.

      1. Seriously, I am fine with the idea of women living alone:

        http://www.theursulines.org/20…..a-convent/

  8. Underscoring the degree to which media scrutiny of campus rape can provoke swift and severe pushback, Rolling Stone in November was forced to step away fromcaught fabricating a story to create a provocative article focused on accusations of an alleged and later disproven gang rape at the University of Virginia.

    FTFY NYT. My billing rate is $200/hr as an editor.

    1. There’s no evidence that Rolling Stone fabricated a story, aside from the story about trying to contact people. Jackie was telling versions of that story long before RS met her.

      1. Rolling Stone fabricated speaking to Jackie’s friends.

  9. “a purported epidemic”

    I submit – busting Robby’s balls seems to be working.

    1. Finally, we get a glimmer that simply repeating the crap premises of ideologues and goons is Not a Good Thing.

  10. Ugh, this is a battle that I shall never win, but back into the breach once more: the Winston case, barring recantation/confession, will be forever he-said/she-said. The evidence mostly points towards his version of events, and the preferential treatment he received* in no way disrupted the collection or dissemination of that evidence.

    Addressing the points made above:

    The “DNA evidence” does not support either claim: both parties agreed sex occurred.

    The “roofie” claim was Kinsman’s 2nd version of events (1st was her getting hit over the head), and toxicology showed nothing. She long ago backed off that version anyway, most recently claiming she was intimidated into a cab.

    More generally, it is often ignored that Winston was a 3rd-string redshirt benchwarmer at the time of the incident, not the star he became.

    The claims in the article are typical of what is written about this case: uninformed and dubiously incomplete. Ever-changing stories, contradictory testimony from her friends, damning toxicology and physical examinations should at least give media members pause before giving in to the Goliath-rapes-David narrative that has always surrounded this case.

    *The TPD tipped off the athletic dept of the accusation, which is both normal and unethical. An officer also warned Kinsman that accusing a football player would be a nightmare for her, which is both unethical and true.

    1. She went to the police immediately afterwards, though, which gives her a lot of credence in my book.

      1. “Immediately” is one way to describe it.

        The police report as well as the State Attorney’s investigation documents the timeline, including phone logs, in great detail. It’s publicly available. Reading all of the witness statements is pretty enlightening.

    2. “More generally, it is often ignored that Winston was a 3rd-string redshirt benchwarmer at the time of the incident, not the star he became.”

      Doesn’t fit the desired narrative.

      1. He and Gunner Kiel were the top 2 QB recruits in that class. He was a helluva lot more than “a 3rd-string redshirt benchwarmer.”

    3. Changed her story (hit over the head, no, roofie, no, wait, intimidated into the cab).

      Deleted shit from her phone.

      Friends’ accounts don’t mesh with hers (which bothers me less than the first two).

      Not exactly building credibility, is she?

    4. I think the evidence strongly suggests that she’s a habitual cleat chaser that’s ashamed of getting in a cab with two thugs and a retard savant, and that something anywhere from unethical to rape really did happen.

      1. Thug? Retard savant? Should I feel bad because I can hear your dog whistles?

        1. You should feel like the worthless shit that you and the rest of #FSUTwitter are.

    5. Although Soave is given a great deal of credit (undeserved) for “exposing” the UVA rape case fallacy, as evidenced by his ORIGINAL article (linked below), he is quick to drink the Kool-Aid on these issues. The current article is no exception.

      https://reason.com/archives/201…..xp#comment

    6. More generally, it is often ignored that Winston was a 3rd-string redshirt benchwarmer at the time of the incident, not the star he became.

      Why would anyone interpret this fact to mean she’s more likely to be lying?

      The “roofie” claim was Kinsman’s 2nd version of events (1st was her getting hit over the head),

      Here’s the link to the actual police report. You can see there is no “1st” story claiming a blow to the head. Your source sucks.

      http://www.talgov.com/uploads/…..uments.pdf

      The claims in the article are typical of what is written about this case: uninformed and dubiously incomplete. Ever-changing stories, contradictory testimony from her friends,

      Couldn’t find these in the report either. It seems you’re internalizing a smear job.

      1. The hit on the head was her first version of the story which was given to two friends who reported same to police the evening of the alleged incident.

        Page 1, paragraph 2

        http://cdn2.vox-cdn.com/assets…..d1__1_.pdf

  11. Speaking of “documentaries” that will help shed insight into the Massive Exploding College Rape Culture Epidemic Crisis = Dude This Shit Is Fucking Awesome

    Because it helps reveal (*in a sort of alternate-universe after-school-special way) the obvious nexus between dudes doing steroids/& using date rape drugs. Its a very honest portrayal of how all men really think and act. and then senselessly fight each other because we all suffer from ‘Roid-Rage. (high five everyone!)

    1. Wow. That was great. It was stupid enough to be funny and not infuriating.

    2. I can’t tell if that is a parody or not.

      Which is it?

      1. No, its not parody.

        Its sort of an updated After-School special type production, where Everyman is a DudeBro-steroid-junky who can’t stop high-fiving everyone, and whose only concept of male-female relations involves spiking chicks drinks.

        Its basically saying, ‘Every Guy is This Guy

        1. PROTIP: That was not a dramatization, but rather one videotaped incident of Ben Affleck’s daily meltdown.

    3. Because it helps reveal (*in a sort of alternate-universe after-school-special way) the obvious nexus between dudes doing steroids/& using date rape drugs. Its a very honest portrayal of how all men really think and act. and then senselessly fight each other because we all suffer from ‘Roid-Rage. (high five everyone!)

      The problem with being into both date rape drugs and steroids is that I’m constantly getting the drugs mixed up. It’s always embarrassing when I pass out at the gym, plus this girl I’m into has gotten super jacked and doesn’t know why.

      1. ” It’s always embarrassing when I pass out at the gym”

        and your ass really hurts afterward? wow i thought that only happened to me.

      2. Notable in this whole “Rape-Culture Dramatization” is how apparently the raped women don’t ever bother to mention their prior rapes until they are getting drunk at another party* (just like they were when they got raped) and they happen to see the guy that date-raped them.

        its like, “OMG I totally forgot about that thing the other night, but seeing him now reminds me = I WUZ RAPED”

        I also thought it was great how when the men got into their “Lets Show How Much We Care About Rape By Fighting Each Other” at the party? All the girls drunkenly start filming it with their phones.

        The movie doesn’t seem to intend it? but the women come off as equally idiotic. i also like how the ‘climax’ involves the guy just spontaneously vomiting and… credits. ‘End on the puke’ is an old Cinema-cliche

    4. I love the guy in that video who’s just like ‘Oh yeah, I commit a shit load of date rape. I like to slip girls roofies’ and admits to this in front of like 12 witnesses, one of whom he admitted to drugging the night before.

      Realistic dialogue.

    5. Wasn’t that one dude in 98 Degrees?

  12. So why do college admins have anything to do with this at all? Shouldn’t that immediately go to the police?

    1. *speaking for the other cases, not this one. They seem to imply that since police screwed it up, we should give that power to admins instead

    2. That’s what I always wonder. I could understand if colleges wanted to put people involved in criminal investigations on administrative suspension, or whatever you’d call it. But that the administration would investigate a serious crime seems ridiculous.

      1. …or the truth is that the people yelling loudest about this don’t actually give a shit about rape and are only using it as a cudgel to attack people they hate. Which explains perfectly why they aren’t more concerned about people just sending their daughters to college if the rape rate is so insanely high, or why they are pushing for the administration to investigate the rapes, which if you think they are a serious crime, should be investigated by the police (in theory).

    3. Title IX. The federal government considers collrges not getting into rape investings discrimination against women and the school would lose access to certain forms of federal student loans and grants in aid if foind in violation,

    4. I don’t get it either. It’s like asking the Special Assistant to the Dean of Diversity take the lead in a murder investigation. No one would do that. It would trivialize what normal people recognize as a terrible crime, and would also be very stupid.

      But rape? Sure! Print out a copy of the Campus Social Justice policy and let’s get busy prosecutin’!

  13. In the film, Kinsman explains that a male student she didn’t know bought her a drink at a bar. It made her woozy…

    Even assuming this is true (because she changed stories about how he allegedly incapacitated her), I guess we have the answer to the question, “what college-aged woman in 2012 would be stupid enough to let a stranger hand her a drink?”

    Have these dumb twats never seen an episode of “Law & Order”?

    1. There was actually an episode of Emergency! the 70s fire/paramedic/hospital show that had that.

      Only the guy accidentally put it on his own drink (the show kind of shied away from rape)

    2. Interestingly enough, this was filmed prior to her giving testimony in the Winston code of conduct hearing. By then she had changed her story to saying that she had been intimidated into leaving with the football players.

      What she remember aside, her text message history tells a different story.

    3. Honestly, a bunch. I personally know a few women (and a couple men, for that matter) who’ve gotten spiked drinks at bars. It’s typically not the first drink of the evening, if you see what I’m saying. In my experience, though, it’s not uncommon.

    4. You monster, you ate trying to control women’s lives by saying that certain choices are unwise!

  14. Campus Rape? Campus Rape?.

    Hey, doesn’t that sound like a great name for a band?

    1. RAPE CULTURE!!!!

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    This is where to start???………www.cashbuzz80.com

  17. “Unlike many victims of campus sex crimes, Kinsman contacted the police immediately after the incident transpired. But despite some DNA evidence supporting Kinsman’s claims”

    While I think Winston probably did rape the girl this statement is categorically false.

    DNA cannot be evidence of rape. It can ONLY be evidence that sex occurred between the two parties. Since Winston does not dispute that the sex occurred the DNA evidence is meaningless and what remains to be decided is whether the actual events of the night can be determined well enough to decide guilt or innocence.

    Had the police not given Winston favorable treatment there would have been a decent chance that they could have done so. Having intentionally botched the initial investigation as badly as they did it is highly unlikely that they could now

    1. I keep hearing about this favorable treatment the police gave Winston.

      I find that interesting seeing that at the time of the initial police report Winston was not named. In fact the attacker was given a wildly different physical description.

      Winston was named over a month later after most investigative work was already done. There would have been no way for the evidence collected to have been corrupted.

  18. When the military rape stats came out, you had a bunch of Senators saying they wouldn’t be able to send their daughters into a place with such a likelihood of violence being done to them.

    I’ve yet to here a single person using the 1 in 4 at college campuses suggest that parents should think twice about letting their daughters go to school.

  19. Please explain exactly how DNA evidence can “support the notion that Winston had raped her.”

    It can’t, of course. The most it could show is that they had sex.

    I hope she had her blood tested right away, to show if she had been drugged by someone, and what with. If true, that would be evidence in support. Better yet would be if his place was raided and he had some of the same substance she was doped with.

    And yet, I doubt that any of that happened. Or Winston would be in jail.

    Reason, please stop supporting the bad guys’ side of this argument by assuming that a rape happened just because someone says it did. The burden of proof, even socially, needs to be completely on the accuser.

  20. The amount of speculation in the article as well as by some of the commenters is pretty amazing, considering the entire police and state attorney reports, with witness statements and phone records, is public record.

    http://espn.go.com/pdf/2013/1206/winston-inv1.pdf

    PS- bloodwork was taken a few hours after the event, and a rape kit was performed. It showed no drugs, low alcohol, and no signs of forced rape on Erika Kinsman.

    That’s what speaks to me. The continued insistence that she was drugged, when multiple labs tested for all known intoxicants and came up zeros.

  21. I have a question… a question I’ve seen NO ONE addressed, but what’s being done about the epidemic of borderline personality disorder on American campuses?

    1. I have a question… a question I’ve seen NO ONE addressed, but what’s being done about the epidemic of borderline personality disorder on American campuses?

      This is being treated at the grade school level. Boys are increasingly labelled as having ADHD or being somewhere on the autism spectrum.

      If you’re a parent of one of these kids, you are obligated to accommodate their ‘condition’ to the fullest of anyone’s expectations. So long as you don’t actually discipline them.

      1. /sarcasm

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  23. Soave’s language is appropriate: “hammering square pegs into round holes” … “Activists have trained themselves to see a pattern, but the truth is a series of random blips.”

    While I have no doubt about the sincerity of rape-victim advocates, most are oblivious to the fact that they’ve been indoctrinated into a false narrative about an “epidemic” of campus rape and a corollary “epidemic” of administrative apathy or coverup.

    This false narrative has its roots in the strongly misandrist core of 2nd wave feminism, based as it is on the notion that in patriarchy all sex is rape because all men use it to exert power over women, and on the principle that “man-hating is an honorable and viable political act” ? Robin Morgan, editor of Ms. Magazine (which first propagated the 1-in-5 myth.

  24. Didn’t Winston change his story too, only admitting they had sex after the DNA evidence came in?

    1. Nope. His story corroborated by eye witnesses has never wavered from consensual sex.

  25. Nope. His story corroborated by eye witnesses has never wavered from consensual sex.

  26. and features interviews with alleged victims of sexual assault who were mistreated by the administrators that handled their cases.

    And why the fuck were university administrators handling their cases? If these girls were raped while working at Burger King, would they complain of being mistreated by the shift manager that handled their case?

  27. The Winston case is unusual.

    1) The victim reported the alleged rape immediately, at 3:20 in the morning after she got home. She believes she was drugged and got in a cab.

    2) Blood tests at 4:40 am don’t show evidence of any drug. Blood alcohol at that point was .04.

    3) The victim’s friends told police that they didn’t believe she was impaired at the time. A male friend said the victim was “drunk” but not “that girl drunk.” A female friend said that the victim got a text saying “meet me out front” and that the victim asked “should I go?” The friend thought the victim was not impaired and told her “you can go”, at which point the victim did. The victim does not recall a text, and the friend suspects that Winston deleted it.

    4) The victim says that she blacked out, and came to while having sex with her assailant, who she later realized was Winston. She says that someone else busted in, and she asked Winston to stop, but he didn’t.

    5) Winston and his roommate both say that they thought the victim was competent to and did consent, and that when the roommate came in, the victim asked the roommate to leave and continued engaging in sex.
    The major argument you see is that the police should have gotten on this more quickly, either by working to identify Wilson during the first period, or by gathering evidence faster once the victim identified Wilson.

    1. Winston and his roommate both say that they thought the victim was competent to and did consent

      Consent is the first denial.

  28. I’m not seeing how this case is a big exception to the rape hoax stories. The victim reported a rape to the cops immediately, but all told it sure doesn’t make much of a case (at a minimum).

    Her shifting story and its failure to align with other evidence (especially, not that drunk, no roofies) has the stink of “regret-sex rape”, but probably not quite to the level that I would call this one a hoax as well.

  29. “All that considered, did Winston commit a terrible crime and get away with it? It’s impossible to say for sure, but many of the facts do seem to support that conclusion.”

    What “many facts” are your referring to?

    The Winston Case boiled down to a couple of very simple things:

    – Erica Kinsman claimed to be drunk/drugged and that she was too incoherent to identify her attacker or the location of the attack
    – TPD performed a rape kit and took blood sample hours after the “attack”
    – The rape kit showed no visible signs of assault and the physical evidence collected seemed to corroborate JW’s narrative.
    – The toxicology report came back showing no date rape drugs and low intoxication
    – EK’s friends gave statements saying that EK was not visibly intoxicated before or after the alleged attack.

    That is the case in a nutshell. Her entire narrative depended on her being incoherent. Without that being true her story does not withstand scrutiny.

  30. Add in the fact that 2 eyewitnesses corroborated JW’s narrative and there was no way to charge Jameis. Everyone discounts their testimony because they are FSU football players but the physical evidence corroborated their statements.

    A fallacy that is often repeated is that “the TPD botched the investigation so bad that we will never know what really happened”. This is simply not true. TPD’s incompetence aside, JW wasn’t charged because the evidence that was collected was Exculpatory.

    They collected the rape kit and blood samples the day of the event BEFORE anyone knew that Jameis or even any FSU football player was involved. That evidence refuted EK’s entire narrative.

    There was NO cover up to protect Jameis Winston.

  31. And for those who say “She reported it to the police right away so she must be telling the truth” it isn’t that cut and dry.

    She didn’t call the police at first. She told a couple of friends that she was hit over the head at a party. Those friends, in turn, called her parents and told them EK had been raped. Her Dad then hopped in the car and drove to Tallahassee at 100mph. She then called the police and the events started to unfold.

    I don’t know what happened that night at JW’s apartment but I do know that Erica Kinsman lied about what happened. Read her narrative in the police report and then read the toxicology report. That is all you need.

    I believe that once her parents found out she was locked into the lie.

  32. This may expose a true epidemic, I’m not up on this issue. And perhaps it should be exposed, but I’m curious if Robby Soave actually read any of the evidence in the Jameis Winston case? Because if you did, you would see it was pretty obvious (from many testimonials of both JW’s friends as well as hers) that it was consensual. Evidence includes her changing her story 7 times, no drugs or alcohol in her system (at 7am the next morning), video showing her giving JW a blow job, her racist aunt lawyer trying to extort $7M from JW in exchange for not going to the press, to her roommate confirming she got pissed when JW said he couldn’t stay with her all weekend because his girl friend was coming into town, pictures of her heading out to a frat party (all dolled up) just one week later, her removing posts from her social media accounts of her in a group that had the hashtag #cleatchasers, who tried to sleep with as many FSU athletes as possible. Plus the fact that 3 different authorities cleared Winston (cops, the Tallahassee AG who has prosecuted many athletes in the past, and an independent judge who was chosen by her and JW). Please do your research before writing crap.

  33. If Klinsman were raped, she ruined the chance to bring Winston to justice by continually lying.

    She claimed on the 911 call to have been hit on the head, blacked out and woken up in the taxi (exam showed this to be false), nor did she black out from alcohol or drugs (toxicology report showed .03 BAL extrapolated to .10 when she left the bar, and no drugs).

    The gaps in the story are only are plausible if she blacked out as she claimed. Beyond physical evidence showing she likely never blacked out, her friend stated she wasn’t drunk and asked what she thought about a text from Winston; the friend said she should go. The accuser’s friend’s statement is consistent with the statements of Winston and his two friends. It’s proven that she deleted text messages from her phone that were sent during the time she claimed to have blacked out.

    Three different stories about the encounter: she first claimed she lay there without resisting because she was too drunk, then claimed she resisted but he overpowered her, in her third story she couldn’t remember anything that happened because she was going in and out of consciousness,

    These are enough for the case to be over, without even talking to Winston. You can’t explain it away by saying the TPD was negligent or FSU interfered. The evidence (physical, toxicology, breathalyzer, her friends’ statements, etc.) all contradict her statements. Lynch mobs like this need to stop.

  34. This misses the mark in a number of ways. First, Winston didn’t deny having sex with her. The contested issue with Winston was consent. So the DNA evidence is irrelevant.

    Second, there is no credible allegation that Winston bought her a drink. Somebody else at the bar gave her one. And her toxicology report (which was performed in a timely manner) showed no drugs and relatively little alcohol in her system.

    He probably received favorable treatment from the cops, but that’s not what sets this appart vis a vis the typical University misconduct hearing, which has nothing to do with the police. What sets this apart is that FSU appears (to me) to have afforded him a level of due process that no other student would receive. They brought in a retired supreme court judge to investigate and adjudicate the claim, rather than leaving it to the normal inept kangaroo tribunal. He was also allowed representation, and the judge applied rational procedural rules in a way that is not usually the case. For this, FSU should probably get hit by the NCAA, since athletes are not supposed to receive benefits that other students don’t receive, other than the scholarship and all that goes with it.

    I have no idea whether or not he is guilty, so I’m not opining on that. Nor am I a fan of FSU, and I think Winston is complete jackhole.

  35. For the complete story of the now infamous Rolling Stone article on the alleged U-VA gang rape, its fallout, the media firestorm of criticism, the apology, and the demagoguery of those radical feminists who refuse to apologize for propagating the myth of “rape culture” and the meme of “victim culture”, see: Yellow Journalism and the Meme of “Rape Culture” – Rolling Stone and U-VA Gang Rape

    For the backstory on Sabrina Rubin Erdely’s entire journalism career built on fictions and half-truths, see: Journalistic Fabulism and Ideological Agendas ? the Sabrina Rubin Erdely Story

  36. For an in-depth expose of the evolution of universities from institutions of higher learning into witch-hunt tribunals for the “rape culture” advocates, see: New Puritanism ? New Paternalism: The “Rape Culture” Narrative Demeans Women, Demonizes Men, and Turns Universities into Witch Hunt Tribunals

    The deprivation of basic constitutional rights for men and their attempts to fight back are addressed in: The Pendulum Reverses ? Again: The Betrayal of Liberty on America’s Campuses & Men Strike Back against Title IX Tribunals

  37. For the history of the shift of the Women’s Rights Movement from an egalitarian to a totalitarian one, see: When Progressive Social Change Becomes Regressive Ideology: From Women’s Liberation to Cultural Misandry

    For the backstory on the way the meme of “rape culture” was created from the misandric feminist leadership and eventually insinuated into almost every facet of US society, including nearly every media story on the “epidemic” of campus sexual assault, see: All Sex is Rape ? All Men are Rapists: Patriarchy = Rape Culture

  38. Domestically and globally, men and boys are victims of sexual violence at rates equal to those of women, and are assumed to be villains whenever a woman accuses: Men are Twice-Raped

  39. Recap, update and analysis of the Duke lacrosse team stripper rape hoax: A Case Study in “Politically-Correct” Reactionary Response

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