The Independents

Tonight on The Independents: Our 10 Heroes of Freedom! Starring Peter Suderman, Michael Malice, David Boaz, and Special Guest Stars!

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Remember Reason's 35th anniversary special honoring our 35 Heroes of Freedom? Well, more than a decade later, The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, with repeats three and five hours later) will be unveiling its very own Top 10. First, IN A TOTALLY UNRELATED MOVE, here's our Wednesday interview with a certain doctor named Ron Paul:

Helping add valuable commentary on the Top 10 are beloved Senior Editor Peter Suderman, betolerated liberty-chomper Michael Malice, and believable Cato Executive Vice President David Boaz. There will be a name-that-hero-of-freedom game, a Q&A with #7 on our list, footage of various Fox personalities listing their own Hs of F, and the co-hosts picks for who should have made the Top 25.

Speaking of which, here's one of 'em, though I obviously don't endorse the musical-comparison comments at the tail end there:

IMPORTANT PROGRAMMING NOTE: The Independents is taking Christmas week off. The next broadcast will be live, on Dec. 29. Follow along at facebook.com/IndependentsFBN, on Twitter @ independentsFBN, hashtag us at #TheIndependents, and click on this page for even more video of past segments.

NEXT: Maybe Montana Didn't Legalize the Summary Execution of Unarmed Trespassers

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  1. Ah, Frank Zappa. Thems was the olden days when “liberals” argued for freedom of speech. Now it’s couched in throat-clearing, but-fors, qualifiers for cultural issues and considerations of volume.

    1. Watch them little huskies where they go and don’t you eat no yellow snow!

      1. Why does it hurt when I pee?

        1. Try a looser grip

          1. Tell that to my prostate!

      2. Don’t fool yourself girl, it’s going right up your poop chute

        (How could that have actually been a song lyric, especially 40 years ago?)

        1. This song got radio play in 1952

          The word meant the same thing back then it does now. The “repressive 1950s” is a myth.

          1. Well, I think what was going on was that in a more innocent age, things like that could slip by because people missed the naughty aspect. Many people may have thought the word just meant “women” or something.

            1. No age, in the history of humanity has been ‘a more innocent’ age. No-one thought the song simply meant ‘women’ because we know you don’t go looking for ‘women’ – you go looking for sex.

              Just as a ‘great place to meet women’ is really a ‘great place to meet women who will have sex with you’.

              1. No age, in the history of humanity has been ‘a more innocent’ age.

                I think this is false. 100 years ago, “confirmed bachelors” could share living quarters as “friends,” and while there would be some knowing whispers, they could escape persecution as gay. For women, this was known as a “Boston marriage.”

                Other examples: Drug references in ’30s cartoons and blues recordings.

                Another: no laws against lesbianism in Victorian England because the queen could not imagine such a thing.

                1. I think this is false. 100 years ago, “confirmed bachelors” could share living quarters as “friends,” and while there would be some knowing whispers, they could escape persecution as gay. For women, this was known as a “Boston marriage.”

                  Other examples: Drug references in ’30s cartoons and blues recordings.

                  Another: no laws against lesbianism in Victorian England because the queen could not imagine such a thing.

                  ‘Confirmed bachelors’ have been able to do that for, well, forever – ‘confirmed bachelor’ is a euphemism for ‘that dude is probably gay but what we don’t *know* we don’t have to condemn’

                  Drug references are drug references – the difference between then and now is that *now* we tolerate openly refering to them. But its not like people weren’t doing drugs, on a massive scale.

                  No laws against lesbianism because the queen . . . – Its not the *monarch* who makes laws in Britain, its their parliament, been that way since the 1700’s.

                  1. You’re kind of missing the point, especially with my second and third examples. Yes, people have been doing drugs since forever. That’s not what I mean by “more innocent.” I mean that people were often more naive about what was going on, and so references could more easily slip by. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnie_the_Moocher

            2. The etymology is from poutain.

              1. So – fries with gravy and cheese?

                1. Cheese *curds*… and Gravy… Philistine.

                  1. Wait, I thought milk had curds. How can cheese have curds? Are cheese curds what Canadians have to eat because their enormous tax bill (to pay for their ‘free’ medical care) eats up all their income? Is ‘cheese curds’ canadian slang for ‘government cheese’?

                    1. I don’t know.. something about milk in a bag and ketchup on scrambled eggs,.

  2. Speaking of the Interview what about the Chairman?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Chairman

    This was back in the days when China was isolated and Hollywood felt it was okay to offend them. See also Golfinger, You Only Live Twice and the Man with the Golden Gun.

    1. That was quite different. Neither the Soviets nor the Chicoms had fallen nearly so far down the rabbit hole as the Norks.

      North Korea is an experiment to see how long and how severe collective psychosis can get. Lying to and propagandizing your populace while keeping a cynical eye on reality is one thing. Believing your own lies and unmooring from reality entirely is something else.

      The soviet leadership probably enjoyed James Bond movies. Kim Jong Il will probably put a hit out on the two clowns from The Interview as if they wrote, directed, and produced it as a personal attack on him.

      1. “Lying to and propagandizing your populace while keeping a cynical eye on reality is one thing. Believing your own lies and unmooring from reality entirely is something else.”

        Salon.com

      2. Kim Jong Il will probably put a hit out on the two clowns from The Interview as if they wrote, directed, and produced it as a personal attack on him.

        Zombie Kim Jung Il?

  3. Random off-topic question:

    What is the best browser for an android phone?

    I’ve got Firefox, chrome, chrome beta, and dolphin, and they all suck in their own terrible ways, especially when on reason.

      1. Don’t forget to install ghostery or a similar ad blocker. Reason is going to suck without that, there are too many ads and self starting videos.

      2. When on Reason, the flash plugin repeatedly crashes, causing any tab using flash (all of them) to crash. If I’m not on Reason, it never crashes.

        There’s some noise on the interwebz about that being an indication that you have two versions of flash installed. Followed advice on disabling one of them. No fix.

        Doesn’t annoy me enough to make me really dig into it.

  4. I don’t think that recognizing Cuba or lifting the embargo will be some panacea as many people here seem to think. Stalin was just as tyrannical as ever once the US recognized him and China didn’t open up until Mao died which happened while the US was establishing diplomatic relations. Will lifting the embargo help Cuban reformers once the Castros croak? Maybe, I don’t know.

    1. I don’t think it will be a panacea, at least not immediately, and I’m sure Obama is not doing this for the right reasons.

      But I think in the long run, continuing this embargo is stupid. If Cuba opens up to tourism, that’s going to change things a lot.

      1. I thought loosening travel restrictions was part of this?

    2. I think it’s going to be a big game changer. And quickly.

      Maybe I have missed it, but I haven’t seen anyone make the argument that this is a good thing because it gives more freedom to Americans! We’re all focused on the effects on Cuba.

      This is a step toward more freedom. Face it, Obama, whatever his motivation, has screwed up and done something good.

      1. Lifting the embargo doesn’t do much for most Americans. Allowing tourism would.

          1. Cuban cigars are garbage that only Americans buy because of their forbidden nature.

            I don’t see the state-run cigar factories in Cuba magically getting better because they can suddenly sell to Americans, quite the opposite in fact.

      2. Freedom to use slaves? Hoorah I guess.

      3. haven’t seen anyone make the argument that this is a good thing because it gives more freedom to Americans!

        I’ve seen quite a few people argue that the embargo is bad because it prevents Americans from trading or visiting someplace. Which is true.

    3. I don’t think that recognizing Cuba or lifting the embargo will be some panacea as many people here seem to think

      Considering every nation on the planet trades with cuba, it won’t be– not for Cuba.

      I seriously doubt that America’s lack of trading with Cuba has the outsized influence it may have had in the 60s.

      Cuba has some agency in their economic doldrums.

      However, lifting an essentially unconstitutional ban on Americans traveling to or doing business with the nation is a generally good thing.

      1. I don’t see how allowing Americans to exploit a totalitarian governments misuse of its people is a good thing.

        As others have mentioned before, it’s like trading with the Confederate US. Sure, you get to take advantage of cheap labor (ie, slaves), but how is that morally good?

        The state forces Cuban workers to work at a given salary. The companies pay the government, not the workers directly, and the government pays the workers.

        1. Wouldn’t it be good for the Americans who would like to visit and do business in Cuba?

          1. Aren’t we just talking about ending the embargo? I mean that’s a start, but I don’t see anyone saying this allows tourism.

            1. This is an extremely poorly written excerpt from the NYT but I think it suggests loosening travel restrictions:

              “The Office of Foreign Assets Control at the Treasury Department will scrap a measure that requires people who are already eligible for travel to Cuba to receive special permission from the government for trips such as those involving family visits, professional, religious or cultural programs and humanitarian projects. New rules will also make it easier to get there, by allowing the direct purchase of airline tickets to Cuba rather than requiring travelers to go through a travel agent and charter a flight.”

              1. It’s going to take a lot more than that to start up tourism between the 2 countries. And the Castros know that openly allowing that is bad PR for them. You think they want their citizens to find out what capitalism looks like compared to the terrible economic stagnation that communism brings about?

                This is too far from happening to really seriously discuss yet.

                But I still like it even though Obama is not doing it for any of the right reasons. Maybe he thinks it’s a blow against Republicans. He’s an idiot.

                1. You think they want their citizens to find out what capitalism looks like compared to the terrible economic stagnation that communism brings about?

                  This is why I think trading with them will expedite their freedom and push the citizens into reforming their government.

                  1. This is why I think trading with them will expedite their freedom and push the citizens into reforming their government.

                    Why would it do that?

                    Exposure to vastly wealthier and freer Europeans and Canadians (compared to Cubans anyway) hasn’t done a fucking thing, what’s so magical about America?

    4. . . . lifting the embargo . . .

      Everytime I see this, *this* pops into my head

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hgq4w4dqKsU

  5. Shouldn’t the Taliban be in the list of heroes of freedom? they oppose US foreign policy, hate the police, hate US puppets, hate the public school system, hate the American form of capital punishment and the current form of cronyism in their countries.

    1. Yeah, except that their alternatives to all of those things are even worse.

    2. Aside from being utterly against freedom? Sure, Winston.

      Please go back on your meds. You’re turning into Tulpa….or American.

      1. I was being sarcastic. I made a similar crack in the Lizzy Warren thread:

        https://reason.com/archives/201…..nt_4978192

        1. I mocking the aspect that Hyperion was referring to here:
          The trend here at Reason is to sometimes give way too much significance to the least little thing that could be construed as being libertarian.

  6. This Is the Sound of Underground

    Suggested theme music for tonight.

  7. Tales from the Derp

    The other day, I was waiting for my turn to use the ATM. I watched as the old lady in front of me put her card in, left it for a moment, and slowly pulled it out. She repeated this about 6 times over the course of 5 minutes. I can usually make a withdrawal in a minute.

    I got out of my car to help her and/or explain how magnetic stripes work, but she got it on the 7th try.

    I then watched as she entered the bank and went back to her work station.
    A bank employee who cannot use an ATM.

    fin

    1. The worst thing is when you get in a checkout line at a store and notice that the person in front of you is a little old lady with a whispy puff of blue hair and she’s digging in a little change purse.

      Also, most people suck ballz at self checkout lines, especially is they have an item without a barcode, you know, like a produce lookup.

      1. Yeah, and don’t get me started about the self-service brothels!

        …is what a really nasty and tasteless person would say.

        1. Self service brothels? Where? Do you just use the select-a-whore touchscreen, select your whore, select payment, and then proceed to the booth of your choice?

          1. Self service brothels may only be found on Whore Island.

            1. Self-service brothel:

              (jpg file)

              http://bit.ly/ScYuLP

              1. That’s why no one is married!

      2. Also, most people suck ballz at self checkout lines, especially is they have an item without a barcode, you know, like a produce lookup.

        That would be me.

        1. One thing that really stands out about this topic for me, is the experience that I routinely have in different local food markets.

          I can go into one of the local market chain super stores and take 10 produce items to the checkout counter. The zitty face white teen who’s doing the checkout will look at each item like a retarded deer in the headlights, look at you and finally say ‘uhhh, what is this?’. Umm, a lime (thinking, are you fucking retarded?).

          I go to one of the Asian markets and take 30+ produce items to the checkout and the little Asian girl will check them out with near assembly line speed and never ask a question.

          Why is that?

          1. I always wonder why supermarkets don’t use the same line up process as banks i.e. one line where you can head to the next available cashier.

            1. A lot of stores do that here in MD. I don’t necessary like the process, because I like to eye the cashiers for a moment and try to avoid the lines of the ones who seem to be moving very slowly.

              1. Yeah, I have figured out which cashiers are competent at my local store.

                But I was thinking more of getting stuck behind someone who starts writing their check after the order has been rung up or someone doing a price check or, my biggest pet peeve right now, realizing you’re in a line with someone buying alcohol and a cashier to young to ring it up.

                1. Walmart lines are notorious for that. Few days ago the wife and I had scoped out the lines and managed to get into the one with the shortest and fastest moving line, only to have the lady in front of us only succeed in her purchase after trying the 5th credit card. How the fuck can you have 4 credit cards that you have no idea what the available balance or status of is?

              2. I ALWAYS pick the wrong fucking cashier line!

            2. Probably has something to do with the time/space of having to fill up the conveyor belt. But your idea should be in use in more places. Other than banks and airlines, I can’t think of where else I’ve seen it.

              1. Best Buy uses it. Of course, that’s not exactly a good business model to recommend it.

                And the weird thing is, a lot of grocery stores use that kind of a line at the customer service counter, just not at the registers.

                Maybe more of them will do what Sam’s Club does with the people roaming the lines processing your purchases before you even get to the register.

                1. Marshalls and most of the TJX stores do it. I hate it, pretty much.

                  1. And yes, Best Buy does it also.

            3. This is one of the small things here in Japan that generally ticks me off. A significant number of Japanese will wait until all their purchases have been rung up, bagged, and the total has been displayed for a couple minutes before it dawns on them that they are supposed to present some form of payment in the near future.

              1. Heh, heh. Yeah, I don’t get that either. When you stand in line at a grocery store, there are two, and only two, things you will be required to do in the next ten minutes of your life. One is to put your purchases on the belt and the other is to pay for them.

                1. That reminds me of one time at the 12 items or less line at the supermarket. This stupid old bitch has 53 items (literally, the display shows an item count visible to the customer), watches the cashier bag all the items and only then proceeds to take her checkbook out and write a check for the purchase.

    2. I can usually make a withdrawal in a minute.

      Amateur.

      1. It’s a 15 second deposit, with 45 seconds of apologizing, before withdrawal.

    3. Excellent story. Now here’s mine.

      I’ve been haunting the car ads on craigslist for weeks now. Spending hours on it. Came across this add the other day and clicked on it. It was full of CAPITAL LETTERS AND EXCLAMATION POINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!

      Why? The guy was begging people to stop calling his house to buy the pickup truck because he had sold it but didn’t know how to delete the ad.

      1. Did you call his house and tell him how to delete the ad?

        1. And did you YELL when you did?

      2. Huh. I had to repost my tutoring ads each week.

      3. I sold my 1994 Jeep Cherokee 5 years ago on Craigslist. For the first few days, I didn’t get any calls, and then I started getting a lot. So I sold it and then I kept getting bombarded with emails and phone calls even after I took the damn ad down.

        1. AND NOTHING ELSE HAPPENED

          1. Oh, after that… I forgot to finish the story. A milf called me up and she was too disappointed that I had sold the Jeep. So I tried to console her by asking that her and all her cougar friends come over for an orgy, and then I nailed all of them later on that evening.

            1. Did you hear about that gang rape that was in Rolling Stone?

      4. One of the greatest pranks I pulled on someone was putting a For Sale ad for his car in the local paper at a very low (but not crazy low) price.

        He got calls for months.

  8. I think this would be a good complement to the “independents, assemble!” battle cry:

    http://dailypicksandflicks.com…..d-bird.png

    1. That is one focused bird.

  9. A good letter to my local paper:

    A recent article caught my eye, wherein a judge disallowed blood alcohol level evidence in a trial involving deaths. It reminded me of a piece written by that great observer and poet Ogden Nash:

    Justice has been rerouted

    From present to future tense.

    The law is so in love with itself

    It’s forgotten common sense.

  10. Atheists can be grating, but sometimes they are really funny:

    http://youtu.be/OCc-5Z_3SKI?t=7m4s

  11. I was talking to a co-worker today who expressed belief in dowsing. He said that he had personally experienced the force that caused dowsing rods to cross. He speculated this was caused by some kind of magnetism.

    “From water?”, I asked. “What would happen to dowsing rods if you walked next to a lake? Would they stick together really hard?”

    He was puzzled by this. I then pointed out that some dowsers use a y-shaped branch instead of metal rods to dowse. Wood does not react to magnetic fields.

    I got more puzzled looks from my co-worker. I told him to look up James Randi’s dowsing tests and the ideomotor phenomenon. He said he would and also wanted to do his own test.

    I told him if he wanted to make sure he wasn’t unknowingly moving the dowsing rods, he should put them on a cart and then either push or pull it along. Bury some water in the ground, move the cart over it, and see if the rods move. If the rods only move when people are holding them, then it must be the people who are moving them.

    I look forward to seeing a new skeptical outlook in my co-worker.

    1. a co-worker today who expressed belief in dowsing.
      THis was a co-worker? I can only imagine you are underemployed.

    2. I send people who believe in woo woo to randi.org. Easy million dollars!

        1. Science.

          Consensus.

          One of these is not like the other.

        2. He’s a hero of mine, but yes, he definitely leans left.

          1. He liked to spit nickles when he found out Sagan smoked dope; long rant about losing control of his mind.
            Ah, well.

        3. WTF? I guess he got pressured into capitulation on global warming. He expressed his skepticism on the subject and was relentlessly criticized for it, I guess until he caved. Damn shame.

    3. My grandfather was a dowser. He had various dowsing rods for various different things. He had one for oil.

      His success at drilling was 3 out of 4 wells. The industry average at that time was 1 out of 10. Impressive, right? Not really.

      He lived here all his life and knew the lay of the land like the back of his hand. He subconsciously knew where to put the drill.

      *True and funny story:

      Once at Big Island he dowsed around and picked out three different spots. He and his two partners could not decide which to choose. So, my grandfather told one of them, who had brought his pretty girlfriend along, “Send that blonde out there and have her piss in the bushes and we will drill there.”

      The guy took offense. A fist fight ensued. My grandfather won.
      They ended up drilling where she pissed. They hit oil.

      1. Hmm, there’s a moral there; or a lesson; or something.

    1. hah. I guess we know who is on his fantasy team

    2. I get mistaking a name. What I don’t get is not having the presence of mind to realize the mistake. Which leads me to wonder if he knew his name in the first place.

      1. Was it Gore who got Michael Jackson and Michael Jordan confused?

        1. Don’t remember.

        2. Are you talking about Al Gore or Gore Vidal?

  12. Bernie Sanders asks: Why not a socialist president?

    Well he got out of a speeding ticket by playing the “don’t you know who I am?” card, so I’d say he’s very much in the socialist spirit of being above the law because he represents the will of the proletariat.

    1. Why not a socialist president?

      Does he mean another one?

    2. On the speeding ticket.

      Notice the reference to Animal Farm.

      http://www.washingtonpost.com/…..ic-ticket/

      In this case, I definitively sympathize with the cop…at least up to the point where the cop’s dick shriveled up and he decided not to issue a ticket.

      And bear in mind that this was in front of a NY Times reporter.

      If the socialists will do this in the green wood, what will they do in the dry?

  13. Don’t eat the yellow snow and don’t be a naughty Eskimo!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxAceec8DxI

    “You can’t be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline – it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer.” ZAPPA.

    1. Is there such a thing as Cuban beer?

        1. Welcome to the league of nations!

  14. Most of the arguments I’ve heard for ending the Cuba embargo sound like bastardized versions of Friedman’s arguments that economic freedom is a necessary condition for political freedom.

    Friedman was of course correct, control over people who can control their own labor, property, and anything it brings is difficult. The free market is itself free.

    But no such arrangement was made. We are trading with the slave masters. I could certainly see this as just as likely to extend the current regime, as to provide some marginally higher quality of life in the authoritarian one.

    But most libertarians know free trade brings freedom. The part that bothers me about the deal isn’t that it’s necessarily bad, it’s that Obama is such a moron that he doesn’t even grasp the power of economic freedom. That even if he could have made Castro concede to give some freedom he would never ask for it. I have this gut feeling that we could have brokered a much better deal if we weren’t governed by a moron.

    1. You are poorly informed. Obama is leading the free trade TPP negotiations and the progs are howling in protest. Google TPP and Obama to see the poutrage against Obama.

      1. You’re poorly informed, sock puppet. Obama is even dumber than you are, as hard as that is to believe.

      2. You, like dipshit completely missed the distinction between free trade and free market. Obama would gladly trade freely and confiscate the booty. We should be free to pay the king.

  15. Been doing a lot of driving lately and listen to conservative redneck AM derp radio. So not even ONCE have they claimed “OBAMA WON’T LET US DRILL!” in weeks.

    1. Cool story, I also didn’t hear some things on the radio recently.

      1. $2.00 gas has shut many a redneck mouth. Also the goldbugs crying about HYPERINFLATION are proven idiots.

        Buy stocks!

        1. You do realize that gas prices are down because of nothing to do with Obama and that this is a temporary….oh fuck, why do I bother.

          Hey Shreek, did you know if you mix bleach and windex in a large bowl and then hold your head over it with a towel over your head and the bowl while breathing deeply that it will make you much, much smarter? You should try it. You could really punk us peanuts then.

          1. Obama has helped marginally with capital incentives on depreciation and his support of natural gas. Also his strong dollar policy. But yes. It is mostly supply and demand for sure.

            So we agree on something! Maybe you should hide in shame.

            1. Palin’s Buttplug|12.19.14 @ 8:40PM|#
              “Obama has helped marginally with capital incentives on depreciation and his support of natural gas.”

              Surprise!
              Turd lies….
              “CNBC’s John Harwood: So could the (high) oil prices help us?
              Barack Obama: I think that I would have preferred a gradual adjustment.”
              http://noconsensus.wordpress.c…..ces-quote/

        2. Palin’s Buttplug|12.19.14 @ 8:07PM|#
          “$2.00 gas has shut many a redneck mouth.”

          Shame it doesn’t have the same effect on turds.

        3. My energy policy will make energy prices ‘necessarily skyrocket’. Who said that, dipshit?

          Worst sockpuppet ever.

          1. No. He said “electricity” you liar.

            1. Surprise!
              Turd lies….
              “CNBC’s John Harwood: So could the (high) oil prices help us?
              Barack Obama: I think that I would have preferred a gradual adjustment.”
              http://noconsensus.wordpress.c…..ces-quote/

            2. My electric bill, I just paid it was $57, the lowest electric bill that I have paid in 15 years.

              FAIL!

              But then, again, morons like Obama and Buttlicker, wouldn’t understand the difference.

        4. Gas is down despite Obamas best efforts. He hasn’t done anything but try to stifle fracking and pipelines.

          1. And drilling.

    2. “redneck AM derp radio”

      Have you been listening to [n-word] radio?

      1. No. The real underclass in the US listens to AM talk radio and believe it.

        I like to hear their fables and myths. Like how the Founders were Christian. Lies like that.

        1. Abdul al-Jefferson al-Muadib would support your historical revisionism!

        2. ButtPlug radio would ‘necessarily’ have to be heavily subsidized by government, and then there would only be ButtPig and 2 homely lesbians in the country who listen to it.

          Hey PiggButt, what happened to that TV network that your heroes buddy, Algore bought?

        3. You should run the ratio of Limbaugh listeners to Americans. Popular for radio is still an extraordinarily small group. You couldn’t possibly claim radio listeners to be of any significant influence on the nation or Republicans if you did a bit of math.

  16. What a great idea dude. WOw.

    http://www.TheAnonBay.tk

  17. Charlie Shrem (bitcoin entrepreneur, plead to money laundering sentenced to two years).

    Last January, I was at the conference he was heading to when we was arrested at the airport (one of the NY ones). MC came out and said there had been some mixup at the airport and he wasn’t there to speak. Turns out he was arrested in NY.

    The next day, the NY regulators started talking about regulating Bitcoin.

  18. An SJW explaining to me why he called me a racist after I mentioned “looters” plundering after the grand jury in Ferguson decided not to indict the cop:

    “I believe we need to go beyond euphemisms such a looters which I’m hearing as “blacks,” which prompted my comment initially.”

    1. Just don’t say anything about menthols and malt liquor !

    2. ” euphemisms such a looters which I’m hearing as “blacks,”

      I have been surprised at the number of times people have said to me recently, “I’m hearing that as suggesting…” or “You seem to be saying….X”… and then they actually have the gall to be upset when i say =

      could you maybe just stick to the actual words I *said* rather than what you’re projecting onto it?

      Seriously = there’s this kind of “real-time deconstructionist”-attitude by some progs, where they feel entirely comfortable *putting words into your mouth* as you are talking so that they can carry on the argument with what they had preferred you had said rather than the actual things that came out of your mouth.

      1. I knew a guy in grad school who used to say that all the time (not in terms of attributing racial motives). Someone would make a point and then he would say “So what you’re really saying is….”

        Was pissing off a lot of people. So one day he pulled it on me and I just looked at him and said, “No, what I mean is exactly what I said.”

        Nervous laughter and the end of that habit on his part.

    3. This is just one of the “heads I win, tails you lose” tactics of the SJWs. If you talk straight about something they don’t like, e.g. black crime, you’re racist. If you try to be euphemistic and say “street crime” or “urban crime,” nope, we know what you mean! Still racist. Basically it’s a way of terrorizing people into shutting up about topics they don’t want aired.

  19. The Independents is taking Christmas week off.

    Could it be? A full week’s respite from the nightly 9PM slog through a parade of politicos and pundits, watching as they pick their way around the sand traps that are Kennedy’s ceaseless interruptions or Welch’s European retrospection or Foster’s contrarion opinions? Seven days relieved the viewers’ Sisyphean task of finding a finished thought, completed sentence or answered question, of seeing an interesting segment that lasts more than three minutes, twelve seconds on Fox Business Network? Rejoice, NYC pedestrians, as you will reach your holiday destinations unmolested by a nut with a mic. Truly this is the greatest consequence of the birth of the Messiah.

    But what will Michael Malice do for a week without that steady income?

    1. They should use their time off well…

    2. you wrote this in GILMORE’s voice, didn’t you?

      1. I didn’t use the royal we.

      2. I was hearing more a “Don Pardo” kind of thing.

    3. “A full week’s respite from the nightly 9PM slog through a parade of politicos and pundits, watching as they pick their way around the sand traps that are Kennedy’s ceaseless interruptions or Welch’s European retrospection or Foster’s contrarion opinions? Seven days relieved the viewers’ Sisyphean task of finding a finished thought, completed sentence or answered question, of seeing an interesting segment that lasts more than three minutes, twelve seconds on Fox Business Network?”

      So you’re gonna miss ’em, Fist?

      1. I’ll let you know next week.

  20. JOE Flacco:

    “James Flacco? Looks like we know who the President is pulling for this weekend.”

    http://twitchy.com/2014/12/19/…..anco-flub/

    1. To be fair, James Franco seems to be fairly obscure. At least I’ve never heard of him before.

      1. James Franco obscure?

        Get a load of this guy.

        1. Yeah, JeremyR, you’re pretty out of the pop-culture loop.

          I have a six degrees of separation connection with him, because he once portrayed an ex-housemate of mine in a film. Oddly, I’ve known (or at least met) four people in my life who were later portrayed in films.

    1. If only the AGW cult were subjected to those standards.

  21. “The secret to Barack Obama’s success is an apparently infinite capacity for feeling good about himself without any evidence to support the conclusion.

    That’s what propelled a one-term U.S. senator and former Illinois state legislator with an undistinguished record in either body to the presidency: an implacable sense of self-confidence drawn from ? well I don’t know where it’s drawn from.”

    http://www.whitehousedossier.com/

    1. for feeling good about himself without any evidence to support the conclusion

      Well, I don’t know about that: he got elected president, got healthcare through, has avoided responsibility for every fuck up that has happened under his administration while claiming credit for every good thing even if he had nothing to do with. Plus, he managed to get re-elected in between two landslide defeats for his party.

      I mean, not something I would be proud of, but I can O being pretty happy about all that.

      1. Record market gains. Inflation dead. Record job creation. Record high exports. Out of Iraq combat. Cut deficit in half. Killed bin laden and Qaddafi.

        Strong, bitches!

        1. He just happened to be President when they found bin Laden. Could have happened under Bush or the President after Obama.

          Nothing to do with him. He was just at the right place and the right time.

          1. Buttface arse is just so sore because I’ve destroyed him in so many debates. He’s the worst debater I’ve ever seen since I destroyed that 4th grade ginger girl when I was in the 5th. She could have beaten FuckButt though.

          2. Ignorance. Both McCain (in debate) and Bush refused to invade Pakistan to kill OBL.

            Obama made the call.

            1. Palin’s Buttplug|12.19.14 @ 9:17PM|#
              “Ignorance. Both McCain (in debate) and Bush refused to invade Pakistan to kill OBL.”

              Yeah, dipshit, they probably had some scruples about impersonating medical personnel.
              No worrys about scruples when we’re discussing your fave lying bastard.

        2. “Record market gains.”
          From record lows.

          “Inflation dead.”
          Inflation as reported.

          “Record job creation.”
          After 6 years of horrendous unemployment.

          “Record high exports.”
          Ex-Im bank throws money around.

          “Out of Iraq combat.”
          Except for all those troops still there.

          “Cut deficit in half.”
          After record high deficit.

          “Killed bin laden and Qaddafi.”
          Said “yes” to military.
          You are a slimy lying POS.

  22. Even Tony is a more believable sockpuppet than Buttwipe.

    1. …all your moss!

  23. Rolling Stone factchecker’s last twitter activity was a link to Jezebel calling Robbie an idiot:

    https://twitter.com/elisabethgp

    1. And the comments are deliciously priceless.

      Losers.

      1. SHE HAS A MASTERS IN JOURNALISM FROM COLUMBIA YOU GLIBERTARIAN MANSPLAINER!

        1. And someone at Columbia is embarrassed.

  24. I think that ButtPig is freaking out again.

    1. Hopefully Matthew has locked her in the dungeon again and making her polish monocles. For good this time.

  25. Fix your collar at the first break, Matt.

    1. That might prove difficult. Nobody told me!

      1. Now you know who your friends are.

  26. France never did that really.

  27. Except she added an errant U to the word labor.

  28. I can’t believe Hollywood can find writers to make him anything but a caricature.

  29. I’m having a really hard time understanding the logic behind this list.

  30. ButtPlug ran away again. What a pussy.

  31. Can’t trust a man who don’t drink.

      1. can’t trust a man who don’t porn?

  32. Jillette is waiting to hear the monetary prize.

  33. So now we know that Kennedy will even interrupt a eulogy.

  34. The Independents Attire Review, 19 December 2014

    God Bless Us, Every One-Edition

    – Kennedy: Kennedy shows her solidarity with ISIS by flying her cashmere/merino-blend Black-Flag Sweater. While we think Black is beautiful in casual affairs, we find it entirely out of place for a TV host, as it seems to overemphasize the symbolic ‘talking head’ effect.

    – Matt: Charcoal Suit #3 in “Drunken Collar”-mode. We won’t dignify this with further comment. (*well, ok; the shirt/tie colors are nice, but goddam, Walsh. Suderman’s going to take your job)

    – Kmele: Brings the layered shades of grey we always love, the blend of fabrics working in harmony, and he looks plain ‘cozy’. Some people make a sweater-sportcoat combo look ‘uptight’ but not Kmele. Exceptionally seasonal and the sort of thing we’d wear to a winter dinner-party. Solid stuff.

    – S?dermensch: Crushes everyone in the room. He has managed to make the planets align with the lilac tie=the single most potent color (in our humble opinion) with a light grey suit (with possible nods to Maroon as a backup/alternative) Suderman’s last 2 appearances have been devastating and we congratulate Peter on his newfound Sartorial prowess. Effortless Victory.

    Ghu Long Khu Me-Ah

    1. Victory!

  35. SHUT UP AND LET HIM TALK, KENNEDY!

    DAYAM!

    1. As far as I know and have come to learn, Rand is Objectivist; not classical liberal/libertarian.

  36. There it is. The sobriety statement.

  37. Ron Paul wore an onion on his belt.

  38. Matt Welch triggered this. There’s nothing I can do.

    1. Tom Jones dances like a mobster.

  39. The Jacques/Gilles Villeneuve father/son dilemma for Rand, huh.

  40. Welch is still reproducing? Way to use more government resources than average.

  41. Have they stopped talking about the hunger games? I changed the channel.

  42. John Wayne needs to be a hero of freedom, I guess.

    1. John Wayne was a fag

        1. The correct answer is, “The hell he was!”

  43. You three turn in your libertarian cards.

  44. The original, non-totally-sucky version of BSG.

  45. Welch threw it so he could get first draft pick.

    1. Gotta build from within, keep payroll manageable.

  46. Boaz’s hair gets darker every appearance.

    1. Mike Baker has also joined that club.

  47. Milton Friedman: Media Whore

    1. It better not be that fucker Galt. He stole my girlfriend.

      1. Took me a minute; I thought you were riffing on the Galt who posts here…

  48. Martin Luther King…Kmele, what do you think?

  49. Everyone knows MLK was a Utilitarian, just like me.

  50. Awkward silence as hosts swallow knowledge that MLK was sort of a commie.

    1. Fun fact: in 1969, Samuel L. Jackson was among a group of Morehouse students who held MLK Sr. (among others) hostage.

      1. Specifically, i was referencing his frequent anti-capitalist rhetoric

        “I imagine you already know that I am much more socialistic in my economic theory than capitalistic… [Capitalism] started out with a noble and high motive… but like most human systems it fell victim to the very thing it was revolting against. So today capitalism has out-lived its usefulness. (Letter to Coretta Scott, July 18, 1952)”

        Leftys lionize him almost more for his socialism than his civil-rights record; at least they seem to always highlight it

        “, the radical Christian egalitarianism which King represented and advocated is a prime example of non-Marxist socialism. I may be projecting here since I view myself as a non-Marxist socialist. Most of the Analytical Marxist school of the late 20th century has moved away from Marx but remain socialists. George Bernard Shaw, as a late 19th century socialist, had an antagonist relationship with Marxist socialists and other revolutionary socialists.

        I say all of this not to defend King against being labelled as a communist in some attempt to defend his image. Instead, I am saying this because it is incorrect to do so. He was part of a socialist tradition that was neither communist or Marxist. It is a great and long tradition.”

        I personally would have picked Malcolm X. IMHO he was the sharper wit.

        1. “I personally would have picked Malcolm X. IMHO he was the sharper wit.”

          MLK is prolly more revered as ‘first adopter’.
          From accounts I’ve read, I’m not sure he wasn’t sort of drug into supporting the bus boycott, but he did do so, he became the public face of it and he did counsel and defend a non-violent response and it did work.
          Opportunist? Tough to call; cometh the hour, cometh the man?
          Malcom X’s sharper wit may well have sunk it.

  51. Washington? Over Jefferson and Madison?

    Bullshit!

  52. BRUCE SPINGSTEEN?

    1. ok, thats just embarrassing. sping, sring, splingsteens

      George Washington = slave owner? Bleeding heart libertarians probably know.

  53. So we can overlook that whole owning people thing.

  54. I can’t believe Bugs Bunny wasn’t #1.

  55. I was so sure that GG Allin was going to be #1.

  56. Levi Strauss spread freedom as much as anyone. Well, maybe Micky D could beat him.

    1. Michelle Obama thinks Mickey D is an evil terrorist.

      1. Well, she can flap her underarms at him!

  57. Did they include John Brown in the list somewhere? I suppose ‘hacking people to death’ gets you excluded…picky bastards.

  58. My hero of freedom is Superman.

    1. Oh should have posted this here

      http://hotair.com/archives/201…..-superman/

  59. I can’t believe no one said Newt Gingrich yet.

    1. Yeah, why didn’t they think of that guy?

  60. Kennedy, Kmele and Matt came through with three great figures.

  61. Uh…Lysander Spooner?

    Not necessarily my #1, but I would think someone would have mentioned him.

    Plus he had that hilarious speech impediment. I mean eech spempediment.

    1. [/of course the speech-impediment guy was a different Spooner]

      1. His evil twin William?

          1. So, yes.

          2. Few things in life I hate more than the Gummie Bears cartoon.

            Oh, sorry ,don’t mean to get ’80s all over the thread

          3. OK, it certainly wasn’t Spooner; who said ‘we need to take the bull by the tail and stare the facts in the face’ (which is probably a ways off)?

  62. You know who < i The Independents should have on the show? Robby Soave. He can walk the Fox Biz viewer through the Rolling Stone fiasco. And he’s pretty enough to be a woman.

    1. If they’d replace Kennedy with Julie Borowski and Welch with Michael Moynihan I’d watch every episode.

      1. Too weird for Fox

        I say that as a compliment to both of them

  63. Chris Corner of IAMX fame is crowdsourcing the $$$ for his next album
    http://www.pledgemusic.com/projects/iamxmusic

  64. Obama is like Superman

    http://hotair.com/archives/201…..-superman/

    1. No you’ve ruined superman for me forever.

    2. Nithe lithp that thee en en reporter hath.

      You put someone with a speech impediment on teh teeeveee? Very inclusive. What’s next? An auctioneer with a stutter?

      Oh, and she’s a hack.

  65. Mandy Rice-Davies dies – the Profumo scandal figure uttered the most memorable phrase of the affair, rivalling in its eloquence many utterances by professional politicians.

    Told that Lord so-and-so had denied having relations with her, Rice-Davies replied: “He would, wouldn’t he?”

    http://www.theguardian.com/pol…..model-dies

  66. So speaking of China opening up does anyone find it funny that China today is very close to Chiang’s vision rather than Mao’s?

    1. You’d have to take a shot at defining what you see as Chiang’s vision.
      Everything I’ve read suggests he didn’t even presume to rule under the ‘mandate of heaven’; he was a tin-pot dictator with FDR as a sugar-daddy and lacking the PR skills of Mao.

      1. Well modern China isn’t really Communist, run by a corrupt one-party system that is very centralized. How does that not sound his vision for China?

  67. I just agree… Brenda `s st0rry is amazing… on wednesday I got a top of the range Citro?n DS sincee geting a check for $9519 this – five weeks past and even more than 10/k this past month . it’s actualy the nicest work Ive had . I actually started 6 months ago and right away was bringing home over $86…
    per-hr . official website ———- http://www.jobsfish.com

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