Rape

The UVA Rapists Should Not Have Been Expelled

Treating rape as akin to plagiarism trivializes violence against women.

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UVA
Troy / Flickr

It's difficult to imagine a more callous, wholly inadequate response to a culture of seemingly rampant sexual assault at the University of Virginia (UVA) than the one its administrators practiced year after year, according to a horrifying account finally publicized by Rolling Stone last week. But that's precisely what happens when an entity equipped only to deal with academic misbehavior is instead pushed to do something about sexual assault: it finds itself putting the university's brand name first and the victims second.

The lesson of the UVA assault, then, is that efforts undertaken by state governments and federal agencies to beef up university adjudication of sex crimes—including the increasing popular "yes means yes" bills—are doomed to failure. Students will never see justice so long as colleges, rather than the police, are expected to intervene in rape cases.

Rolling Stone's expose, which quickly went viral, details the unbelievable ordeal of an 18-year-old freshman, "Jackie," in the fall of 2012. The crime took place at Phi Kappa Psi, where Jackie was attending her first fraternity party with a date, a Phi Psi junior, who eventually lured her to an upstairs bedroom. Jackie then endured three hours of agonizing violence at the hands of seven students, who held her down while they raped her. One male, whom she recognized, brutalized her with a beer can instead. Hours later she fled the frat house battered and bloody.

Little could have been worse than that ordeal. But the quiet indifference of the people in whom Jackie confided came close. Her friends dissuaded her from going to the hospital or calling the police. Jackie recalled one saying, "She's gonna be the girl who cried 'rape,' and we'll never be allowed into any frat party again," as if the potential loss of social status was the real crime here.

Worse still, university administrators did nothing to correct the notion that keeping quiet was the best policy. A few months later, after finally working up the courage to go to the administration, Jackie told Nicole Eramo, head of UVA's Sexual Misconduct Board, about her assault. Eramo gave her four options: file a police report, file a formal complaint with the university, file an "informal" complaint, or do nothing. The informal complaint process would have obligated the accused to face Jackie in Eramo's presence, and the administrator would have suggested some kind of resolution. The formal complaint process offers the possibility of an academic punishment, like suspension or expulsion. Eramo didn't express a preference for one option or the other; Jackie ultimately did nothing, and that was just fine from the university's perspective.

Only after Rolling Stone publicized Jackie's story—including the fact that multiple other rape accusations went unreported, including at least two more accusations of gang rape at Phi Psi—did UVA express any interest in doing something.

People are outraged, and they should be. It's a travesty that such a terrible culture of sexual violence endures at perhaps the quintessential American public university, founded by the likes of Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and James Monroe. 

Yet much of that outrage is misdirected. One of the most common reactions to the Rolling Stone story seems to be this curious question: why weren't the rapists expelled? Indeed, much of the broader coverage has focused on the fact that no student has ever been expelled for rape at UVA. BuzzFeed's report on the issue led with the headline, "You Can Admit to Raping Someone at UVA and Not Be Expelled." Jezebel, zoning in on Eramo's assertion that even if a rapist admitted guilt during an informal resolution he wouldn't be expelled, wrote: "UVA Dean Admits School Doesn't Expel People Who Have Admitted to Rape." Many news outlets ran similar headlines.

The mother of a UVA student who reported her rape summarized this position thusly: "In what world do you get kicked out for cheating, but if you rape someone, you can stay?"

That sentiment makes for a great outrage quote, but it's entirely wrong. Cheating and raping are not related things. The former is in academic infraction deserving an academic punishment, like expulsion; the latter is a violent crime deserving a rigorous police investigation. Students who are confessed rapists shouldn't be expelled, they should be put in jail.

Merely ejecting rapists from a campus community would be a terrible approach. Rapists, experts tell us, are serial predators. They are public health hazards. Shuffling them from community to community, rather than confronting their misdeeds in a criminal setting, would allow them to claim additional victims. Do the bureaucrats at the Department of Education—who are now mandating that universities at least consider expelling rapists—really sleep any better at night with the knowledge that they have made it more difficult for violent criminals to earn degrees?

Treating rape as akin to plagiarism, or copying off someone else's test, trivializes violence against women. What UVA administrators did, in listening to students' accusations and failing to report them to police time and time again, is worse than trivializing: it's an outright cover-up. Eramo reportedly justified UVA's policy of burying rape accusations when she told Jackie, "Nobody wants to send their daughter to the rape school." That stunning moment of honesty should disabuse everyone of the notion that sexual assault adjudication belongs in the hands of university administrators.

Indeed, when colleges do intervene in rape cases, the result is fewer freedoms for everyone, but still no justice. Just look at UVA's latest response to the controversy: administrators, eager to look like they are doing something, have now suspended all campus fraternity activities. But that's legally dubious—students enjoy broad First Amendment protections and have the constitutional right to join clubs and plan activities. Similarly, when universities do take formal disciplinary actions against accused rapists, they typically violate those students' due process rights by denying them adequate representation and convicting them under tragically low evidence standards. There is no justice here: Innocent students have their rights violated and their lives ruined, while actual rapists get off far too lightly—they don't go to jail.

If the government and the colleges were truly interested in addressing the campus rape epidemic, there is one big thing they could do: work together to come up with a saner drinking age. Older students, who enjoy legal access to booze, are the distributors of alcohol on campus; underage students who want to drink have to hit the frats and house-party scenes and accept mystery drinks from people they don't know. One way to curb the abuses of fraternity parties and campus binge-drinking culture is to give 18-year-olds legal access to bars, something a repeal of the National Minimum Drinking Age Act would accomplish.

Absent that proactive step, the best way to confront campus rape is to treat the issue with the seriousness it deserves and make violent crime the business of the normal criminal justice system. UVA's cowardly, PR-wary cover-up of its own rape problem should serve as a lesson to anyone who thinks otherwise.

NEXT: How Grand Was That Ferguson Grand Jury? A Couple of Perspectives

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  1. The only people who can be trusted to accurately discern what really happened during a supposed rape are law professors, gender studies professors, or a group of nerds who decided to run for student government.

    1. You forgot about the Saudis. They are supra accurate. I think the rapists get beheaded and the girls gets whipped silly bloody.

  2. This is just not UVA’s year.

    1. Basketball and Women’s Soccer are both looking pretty good.

      1. Don’t be facetious.

        1. Fuck you.

          1. If you’ve followed my posts, you know that I’m not an SJW. So drop the bitter attitude.

        2. Did you forget where you were?

          1. Still, something like this shouldn’t be made light of.

            1. C’mon guys, remember to use your TRIGGER WARNINGS next time for the more fragile among us.

              1. I’m not offended. I just don’t believe in going around and writing offensive things.

                But yeah, not offended.

      2. Women … looking pretty good.

        FUCK YOU CIS SHITLORD

        STOP OPPRESSING ME! PATRIARCHY!!!!

  3. Students who are confessed rapists shouldn’t be expelled, they should be put in jail.

    Being expelled and being put in jail are not mutually exclusive.

    1. Yeah, I would hope being convicted of a violent felony would get one expelled.

      1. And getting away with a violent felony might get you tenure *cough* Bill Ayers *cough*

        1. Juanita Broaddrick

      2. Yeah, I would hope being convicted of a violent felony would get one expelled.

        Unless your major is Law or Ethics, why?

        Considering there are lots of victimless charges that could be elevated to felonies relatively arbitrarily, I fail to see it as a good “rule out” for anything membership or activity not strictly legally-oriented as far as the University is concerned.

        If I get a felony conviction for carrying a concealed weapon (esp. in Chicago), what concern is it to the Biology Department University of Florida? What about illegal use of a vehicle, illegal possession of a financial device, refusal to pay child support, or simply resisting arrest?

        Revoking state and federal scholarships, I could understand, but simple admissions seems absurd, especially if I’m legally paying tution and not taking any actions that explicitly deter fellow students from attending.

        1. If you are sitting in a prison cell in Illinois, you may have difficulty attending lectures, labs and tests in Florida.

        2. Rape is as far from a victimless crime as you can get. You know how this, I’m sure, but that’s what makes this comment confusing.

          Colleges should also be able to choose who they do and do not want to associate with. Some of those decisions might be silly. But choosing to expel an admitted rapist seems like a damn good reason.

      3. Or even crimes against property. I’d rather not have dorm burglars, car thieves or pickpockets come back to school.

  4. ” a culture of seemingly rampant sexual assault at the University of Virginia… It’s a travesty that such a terrible culture of sexual violence endures at perhaps the quintessential American public university”

    Aside from this very-hyped story about this one event

    and subsequent further accusations (substantiated? or not?) of the same single fraternity

    what actual evidence is there to conclude that there is a ‘culture’ of ‘rampant’ sexual assault that constitutes a ‘travesty’ at UVA?

    Is there something i missed?

    Or is hyperbolic, blowhard, shirt-rending moral-preening just the online-style-guide for writing about ‘Rape Culture’?

    Forgive me if there is actually further detail here. Or not! Call me a rape-apologist for daring to think maybe your cup runneth over.

    1. Or is hyperbolic, blowhard, shirt-rending moral-preening just the online-style-guide for writing about ‘Rape Culture’?

      Yes.

    2. I believe that it’s a major issue on campus; the administration’s response to the controversy was reprehensible.

      1. By major issue, I mean something that’s been covered up over the years.

        1. Did somebody wake up on the wrong side of the turnip truck?

          1. Looks like you did, cuz you’re stupid snarky remark is in the wrong fuckin place. Howsat feel?

            1. Other than the fact that I made a careless mistake, what’s wrong with you?

  5. Sorry, but I still doubt that this account happened.

    “Jackie then endured three hours of agonizing violence at the hands of seven students, who held her down while they raped her. One male, whom she recognized, brutalized her with a beer can instead. Hours later she fled the frat house battered and bloody.”

    And yet she reported this to no one?

    ” Eramo gave her four options: file a police report, file a formal complaint with the university, file an “informal” complaint, or do nothing. .. Jackie ultimately did nothing, and that was just fine from the university’s perspective.”

    And then she did nothing?

    This is a Libertarian site. Don’t we expect people to take personal responsibility for themselves? College aged women shouldn’t be considered some kind of frail child incapable of filing a police report. This whole story smacks of an attempt to establish the evidence of a campus rape narrative, through the use of unsubstantiated stories. File a damn report and I’ll take the story seriously.

    1. I wouldn’t dismiss it out of hand. She apparently received the exact opposite of support from her “friends”. I don’t know what it’s like to go through a traumatic experience. It doesn’t seem crazy that some people would want to just try and forget it.

      Having said that, you are correct that at some point, if you want justice to be done, you may sometimes have to take the initiative. But when no one is supporting you, that is easier said than done.

      1. “”some people would want to just try and forget it.””

        by publishing the account in Rolling Stone magazine?

      2. I’m hesitant to make declarations like “it sounds made up”–if events did occur as presented in the article, I can only imagine how devastating it would be to the victim to not only have to go through that, but to also be disbelieved by others for publicizing it.

        But on the other hand, if I try to be totally dispassionate about it, the whole account in the article sets off my implausibility alarm. The whole time I was reading I kept thinking in the back of my mind “Real people don’t act or talk like this.” That may just be because the story seems to have been collected as a recollection from years after the fact, but…the sense I get is that if the story wasn’t at least embellished in parts, Jackie would have to be bar-none the worst judge of character in the world.

        1. “Grab its motherfucking leg”

          1. This line belongs next to “Acid is groovy. Kill the pigs.” as an example of a detail that makes the entire story unbelievable.

        2. Entirely agreed. This has the ring of “satanic child molesting rituals” circa about 1990 to me.

    2. BUT BUT BUT BUT **CULTURE**?!? TRAVESTY!? WHY ARE YOU NOT OUTRAGED? SHAME ON YOUR ATTEMPT TO MAKE RATIONAL JUDGEMENTS BASED ON ESTABLISHED FACTS!

    3. Actually I have no trouble believing someone that traumatized and who was immediately told by her “friends” to keep quiet because it would ruin their future frat prospects would have trouble going to the police.

      1. Really? What about her mother? My understanding is that she was present when the head of the college’s Sexual Misconduct Board allegedly told her daughter about her options. Am I to understand that her response was to do nothing? If so, I think we have a viable candidate for worst mother of the decade.

    4. I hate it when people throw the term “victim-blaming” around so freely, but here the term seems apt.

      UVA has every reason to cover this up.

      1. Yes you’ve made that claim repeatedly, in response to requests for actual evidence.

        It’s time to shut up now.

        1. A graduate of the Karl Rove School of Debate, I see.

          1. We know, there’s no reason to admit it, your vague innuendoes in placeoif facts make it obvious

            1. Says the serial name-caller.

              If you don’t see eye-to-eye with me, then just say so. No need to get all bent out of shape.

              I offer this clip to you as a peace offering.

              1. Perhaps the term “victim-blaming” was incorrect. Never mind.

      2. UVA has every reason to cover this up.

        But, that assumes “this” happened. I don’t think anyone here is saying that she’s at fault if this, in fact, happened. But, what if UVA didn’t cover it up because there wasn’t something to cover up. There are elements to this story that just sound highly implausible. It’s not unfair, it’s not unreasonable, and it’s not blaming the victim to respond with some skepticism to a story with elements that just don’t add up. Just the act of an accusation doesn’t merit uncritical acceptance.

        1. My main problem with the case has to do with the fact that UVA’s covered up other things in the past that relate to this.

          1. So you keep claiming.

            1. Yeah, because a public institution never has anything to hide, right?

              1. I believe his point is you haven’t provided any evidence of what they are hiding.

                1. I’m just saying that UVA has a history of normalizing this kind of behavior. It’s a problem with any reckless Greek system which allows young people to run around without any supervision.

                  1. I guess I wasn’t clear: give us some actual, documented examples of this.

                    1. I’m referring to frat and sorority members drinking too much and engaging in stupid behavior. Essentially acting like teenagers, when they should be trying to act more like adults.

                      There was a good point below about how the National Minimum Drinking Age contributes to this.

                  2. Those “young people” are legally adults. Are you suggesting (1) raising the age of majority back up to 21 and (2) going back to the rule of in loco parentis?

          2. But, here are the things you have to believe to accept this story:

            1. The entire fraternity was so depraved that they would exercise gang rape as a fraternity initiation stunt.
            2. All of her friends (presumably including women) were so obsessed with getting into this one fraternity that they conspired to discourage her from reporting what happened.
            3. Every one of the guys in that entire fraternity was such a sociopath that they never had second thoughts and reported what had happened.
            4. No one on campus, including the SJWs and including the professoriate noticed that this woman had gotten the living shit kicked out of her to the point of investigating what had happened.
            5. The girl’s own mother, who presumably didn’t have an interest in getting into the fraternity, was willing to let her own daughter’s rape go unanswered.

            What you have to assume is that everyone in this girl’s known universe was indifferent to her getting gang raped. Now, I’m not going to say that’s not possible. But, I am going to say that it seems only reasonable to expect a little more than an accusation to assume it is true.

            1. You forgot #6, Bill:

              6) Everyone talks like they are in a fucking Aaron Sorkin.

              1. Aaron Sorkin’s a genre now? Egads.

              2. Either everyone at UVA is totally-lunatic-deranged or some key elements of this recollection are incorrect.

                A college girl is gang raped and brutalized and not one person — male, female, teacher, administrator, etc stands up for her? Yes, I admit I was not there, so you can explain all day how I don’t know and have no first hand knowledge etc etc, but that *sounds* like a tall tale that only happens in the imagination of certain reality-challenged zealots.

                If this all proves to be 100% true, I will be the first to admit that my assumptions were wrong and that I need to reassess my opinions about UVA, about the Commonwealth, about the whole east coast, about my country and my countrymen. Do we really let stuff like this happen & not care? I am going to church to light a candle for the victim.

            2. I was in a fraternity like this at a college fairly similar to this. And I will note that I think many of the guys I knew in those days were utter scum.

              BUT. I was personally aware of one incident during my entire time at school where a rape was alleged. It was proven to be a false allegation.

              I could understand one asshole being a complete sociopath somewhere and doing a horrible thing like this to some woman. But seven of them? In a fraternity where everyone is being chased after constantly by women, where everyone has immense upside as far as a potential career and life?

              Just does not compute on any level whatsoever.

    5. Sorry, but I still doubt that this account happened.

      I’m with you; the pain-stakingly bad decision making on the part of the victim should at least render it moot in light of the ‘Rape Culture’ implications if not a crime in general. I mean, relative to the Duke lacrosse swift miscarriage of justice, this almost seems crafted to ride ‘the feelz’ into urban mythology.

      If someone breaks into my house and I clean up, repair the windows and locks, ask my friends what to do, refuse to document the crime to impartial 3rd parties, wait months, and then file a police report, IDK, that I would or should expect to see justice done.

      Not that I shouldn’t expect *anything* to be done, but this is a poor precedent to craft any sort of policy around.

    6. This may be picky, but I began suspecting that the author wasn’t especially scrupulous about accuracy when she claimed that Phi Kappa Psi was located “along UVA’s fraternity row known as Rugby Road.” It may be on “fraternity road,” but it is, in fact, on Madison Lane rather than literally on Rugby Road. People at UVA might refer to the fraternities in general as being on “Rugby Road,” but they wouldn’t say that a particular fraternity was on Rugby Road unless it really was. (Similarly, people wouldn’t claim that Merrill Lynch is located “in the financial district known as Wall Street,” when in fact it’s on Liberty Street (which is merely near Wall Street).)

    7. The rest of the story had my bullshit detector ringing non-stop. I’m no friend of the fraternities at UVa, and generally believe that a decent person of either sex won’t be caught dead at one of their houses. But in all the time I spent in Charlottesville, and out of all the debauched things I heard went on at fraternity houses, I never heard of anything like violent gang rape and battery occurring. I also found credulity strained by the claim that Jackie’s “friends” all discouraged her from taking action, saying things like, “Her reputation will be shot for the next four years,” “She’s gonna be the girl who cried ‘rape’,” and “You have to remember where your loyalty lies.” Those are the kind of things I might believe occurred after a “he said/she said” incident, where it wasn’t clear that what happened was, in fact, rape. But there could be no doubt that the incident described in the article was what even Whoopi Goldberg would call “rape rape,” and it’s the kind of thing that everyone at UVA in my day would have been horrified by and would have wanted to respond to without hesitation.

    8. (On the other hand, Woodrow Wilson was a member of the UVA chapter. If they could tolerate a psychopath like him, who knows what kinds of psychopaths they’ve been admitting in the years since then?)

      The one thing in the story that rang true to me is the part where Dean Eramo did not attempt to pressure Jackie toward any one of the four options that were presented. That is perfectly consistent with what I understood to be a policy of being supportive of victims’ choices and not wanting to traumatize them by forcing them to take action (such as testifying at a criminal or administrative hearing) that they didn’t want to take. Of course, now the University is being raked over the coals for what I’m sure it thought was the sensitive and supportive thing to do.

    9. Other tidbits:

      Their other two friends, however, weren’t convinced. “Is that such a good idea?” she recalls Cindy asking. “Her reputation will be shot for the next four years.” Andy seconded the opinion, adding that since he and Randall both planned to rush fraternities, they ought to think this through. The three friends launched into a heated discussion about the social price of reporting Jackie’s rape, while Jackie stood beside them, mute in her bloody dress, wishing only to go back to her dorm room and fall into a deep, forgetful sleep. Detached, Jackie listened as Cindy prevailed over the group: “She’s gonna be the girl who cried ‘rape,’ and we’ll never be allowed into any frat party again.”

      This sounds like a post-rape scene in a movie.

      1. Or:

        he was having an especially difficult time figuring out how to process that awful night, because her small social circle seemed so underwhelmed. For the first month of school, Jackie had latched onto a crew of lighthearted social strivers, and her pals were now impatient for Jackie to rejoin the merriment. “You’re still upset about that?” Andy asked one Friday night when Jackie was crying. Cindy, a self-declared hookup queen, said she didn’t see why Jackie was so bent out of shape. “Why didn’t you have fun with it?” Cindy asked. “A bunch of hot Phi Psi guys?” One of Jackie’s friends told her, unconcerned, “Andy said you had a bad experience at a frat, and you’ve been a baby ever since.”

        Who in college call other people “baby” in that sense?

        Lastly:

        “One of my roommates said, ‘Do you want to be responsible for something that’s gonna paint UVA in a bad light?’?” says Jackie, poking at a vegan burger at a restaurant on the Corner, UVA’s popular retail strip. “But I said, ‘UVA has flown under the radar for so long, someone has to say something about it, or else it’s gonna be this system that keeps perpetuating!’?” Jackie frowns. “My friend just said, ‘You have to remember where your loyalty lies.’

        1. Yeah, the whole thing reads like a poorly written young adult novel. The only things missing are the vampires.

        2. “, poking at a vegan burger at a restaurant on the Corner”

          The place that area is famous for is the “White Spot” diner and the Gusburger

          which is basically “vegan gang-rape”. it involves cow meat, fried egg, bacon, etc. possibly also chinchilla brains, and mexican sweat

          1. You can probably get a vegan burger at Littlejohn’s.

    10. “She’s gonna be the girl who cried ‘rape,’ and we’ll never be allowed into any frat party again,” as if the potential loss of social status was the real crime here.

      I am calling BS on this. Sorry but if a rape occurred, no other frat is going side with the rapists. There isn’t that much love for other frats to take the side of criminals.

    11. Me, too. That was my first thought when reading the account. First off, 3 hours of violent bloody sex in a party and none of her friends went looking for her. Brutalized by a beer can?

      Tough to accept something that seems so implausible.

      1. Beer can I could believe. Someone doing something sick with an object to hand is a known thing.
        Three hours without one friend looking for them is hard to buy though. The only way that makes any sense is if they were told she was hooking up with someone and needed alone time. Even then after three hours you know at least one friend would be whining to go home and they’d have tried to get her out.

  6. “Eramo reportedly justified UVA’s policy of burying rape accusations when she told Jackie, “Nobody wants to send their daughter to the rape school.””

    OK, silly question: Did Reason contact Eramo and ask, “did you make the remark attributed to you by Rolling Stone magazine?”

    If she denies it, then it’s a credibility contest between a college administrator and a magazine which continues to put flattering pictures of Obama on its covers.

    1. I think Reason just read the Rolling Stone article and swallowed it hook,line, and sinker because they’d really, really love to work there someday.

      1. for the opportunity to interview Neil Young? And Mick Fleetwood? And Adam Levine? Can you imagine? I got stiff hog just thinking about it.

      2. “I think Reason just read the Rolling Stone article and swallowed it hook,line, and sinker because they’d really, really love to work there someday.”

        Well that’s a whole different ball game. I just figured that they swallowed it because they just hoped to get invited to the same parties that Rolling Stones editors and writers do. 😉

    2. UVA’s administration is incredibly corrupt, though. It’s plausible.

    3. While we’re asking questions of this sort, did Rolling Stone ever contact “Drew” and get his comments on the incident? That would seem to be something that any responsible journalist would do.

  7. In addition to a lower drinking age, I would suggesting reinstating parietal rules.

  8. I read as much of that Rolling Stone bodice-ripper as I could stomach.
    Sorry, but I find it completely not believable that the event as described took place and the ENTIRE CAMPUS COMMUNITY CONSPIRED TO SWEEP IT UNDER THE RUG.

    1. What part of RAPE CULTURE don’t you understand?!? /derp

    2. Agreed – has all the hallmarks of a Stephen Glass redux…

      http://www.forbes.com/sites/mi…..hen-glass/

    3. “I read as much of that Rolling Stone bodice-ripper as I could stomach.”

      Didn’t you make this exact comment on a thread last nite or this morning?

    4. Two words: Ped State

  9. Expelled? I thought rape was a crime, a pretty serious one at that. Was I wrong?

    Go to to the cops, people involved get put in jail where they belong. Let them investigate and collect evidence, that’s what’ they’re paid for.

    Then sue the fraternity and pretty much destroy it, ass-uming there is a culture there that supports this sort of thing.

    At the very least UVA bans the fraternity from the campus, because, duh…

    But, yeah, horny teenagers and alcohol WILL produce results like this. Fraternities and campus parties need actual adult supervision. Not a 22 year old ‘adult’ either.

    And we mustn’t forget that some women will make up stories like this (Tawana Brawley, that Lacrosse team story, etc). Months later there is literally no evidence one way or another. Too bad the police weren’t involved from the beginning…

  10. Treating rape as akin to plagiarism, or copying off someone else’s test, trivializes violence against women.

    What if the victim of rape is a man? What if the perpetrator of a rape is a woman? Can all of the encounters now considered rape really be classified as violent? If SJWs and their fellow travelers really cared about victims of rape they would stop acting as if this was another skirmish in the gender wars and show some respect for all victims and contempt for all perpetrators.

  11. Rolling Stone’s expose, which quickly went viral, details the unbelievable ordeal of an 18-year-old freshman, “Jackie,” in the fall of 2012.

    Emphasis on “unbelievable”, of course.

    1. “Grab its motherfucking leg”

  12. This is crazy. Of course organizations can decide who they want to do business with and who they do not want to do business with, and they can decide if someone has done something worth dis-associating from them, and those things can include things that would be crimes, and they can determine their own methods independent from whatever the police do or do not do. What do you think happens when companies drug test employees and determine to let them go if they fail? They don’t report it to the police and let them handle it. If Jane says Bill stole something from the break room, an organization can investigate the matter and decide to dis-associate from Bill if they determine, by whatever methods they want, he did it.*

    *Of course this is different if there are contractual obligations to give more process.

    1. private institutions yes, public institutions ought to not be able to exclude anyone without full legal due process. In my opinion rape is a crime and ALL punishment for crimes ought to be judicial, if people don’t think the current punsihment for rape is harsh enough then change the statute, don’t call for measures beyond the scope of law.

      1. Many public universities, UVA included, are public in name only. Yeah, they get taxpayer money and there is some government oversite, but by those standards you could classify a lot of companies that get SBIR grants as public institutions.

        Rape should obviously be investigated by the police and punished by the judicial system, but that doesn’t preclude colleges from making independent determinations about who they want to associate with.

  13. give 18-year-olds legal access to bars, something a repeal of the National Minimum Drinking Age Act would accomplish.

    “Accomplish?” Well, perhaps. More likely states would keep their age-21 limits because Mothers Against Drinking and even if the states went wet there’s University Policy to overcome.

    But it would be a start.

  14. Mystery drinks ?

    Is Robby Soave a spokesman for Big Pinot Grigio, or the self-improvement cult, Est! Est! Est !

  15. Didn’t you make this exact comment on a thread last nite or this morning?

    Very similar. Are you going to report me to the Honor Council for plagiarizing myself?

    1. It’s just kind of funny. Did you write it down to use again or memorize it?

      1. Gee, did it ever occur to you that maybe he thought it was a clever turn of phrase?

        1. That’s exactly what occurred to me. It seemed kind of sad though (“man, that was great! I bet everyone on the board loved that one. I’m gonna write that down to use it again!”)

          1. I didn’t read his remark in the earlier thread, so I’m glad he used it again so I wouldn’t miss it.

          2. Why would he have to write it down, Bo? If something tickles my fancy, I tend to remember it.

  16. there’s a lot i like in this article, but i still can’t get past its opposition to expelling admitted rapists, even if the university rightfully should’t play cops and robbers either.

  17. “I find it completely not believable that the event as described took place and the ENTIRE CAMPUS COMMUNITY CONSPIRED TO SWEEP IT UNDER THE RUG.”

    Well, they do have an Honor System you know…

    …by which I mean to say: Obviously the lack of Federal oversight and reliance on antiquated Patriarchal ‘honor’ systems is just *enabling* their Campus-Wide Rampant Rape-Culture Culture.

  18. It is funny. Rolling Stone (author and editor(s)) apparently believe their target audience want to read about an extremely serious allegation in the horrifying/titillating narrative style of fifties women’s softcore porn.

    What does that tell us?

  19. I think a PSA by NFL players would fully address this problem.

    1. I don’t know – this might be more serious than that.

      I think this calls for a Hashtag Campaign

      …and if THAT fails (inconceivable though that may sound)… we might have to consider drastic measures….

      BANNER DROP! = the most powerful force for social change known to mankind

    2. Yeah, I get really annoyed about that and the domestic violence PSA, which portray both rape and domestic violence as something men do to women.

      In my experience, volunteering at Legal Aid for a summer, lesbians commit a lot of domestic violence.

      And, obviously, the sheer amount of rape in prisons which seems to be forgotten whenever “rape as an issue that needs to be addressed” is brought up by pols.

  20. “One way to curb the abuses of fraternity parties and campus binge-drinking culture is to give 18-year-olds legal access to bars, something a repeal of the National Minimum Drinking Age Act would accomplish.”

    Not. The repealing the federal law would only remove there excuse for the drinking age. Repealing it would not force States to lower the drinking age. There would still be major opposition to lowering or repealing the drinking age from voters who know the State legislature would then crack down on drunk driving, which would not be fair to them because they “can drive better drunk than teenagers can sober.”

    Besides, the government never “gave” 18-year-olds legal access to bars. Rights are not gifts from the government.

  21. Reason has taken the path of least resistance the entire time they’ve attempted to talk about this ‘issue.’ They refuse to even question the basic facts as suggested by the social justice warriors.

    Reason has barely questioned whether there is in fact an issue with rape on college campuses.

    Reason is willing to give credibility to what is a rather ridiculous Rolling Stone piece in which, just like other progressive tales of woe, will most likely fall apart at the first sign of serious journalism or fact checking.

    It’s good that Reason questions the end result of the ‘logic’ used by social justice warriors. It’s still annoying that they refuse to question the ‘facts’ on which they base their claims.

  22. Yeah. If true it is horrifying. As a UVA alum, it is so troubling. But it is really implausible. Is there some reason every member of the frat hasn’t been immediately arrested and questioned as an accessory? What is alleged is a rape initiation. That is systematic. That requires unreal sociopathy but also every single individual would know about it. So, how hard is it for the Albermarle fuzz to go in there, haul everyone down to the station, separate them all, and tell ’em how it can go hard or easy. If you weren’t involved but have knowledge, spill, or you’re doing 7-10 in a state pound me in the ass prison. There is just no way 80 numbnuts kids keep their story straight. Some will lawyer up, and, if I’m the counsel, I get an immunity deal for my client. This should take 72 hours, tops. It’s been longer than that. No arrests?

    And who is gang raping anyone in broken glass? No way my junk is getting near shards of glass.

    1. It’s impossible for anyone to judge whether this happened or not unless you truly know the victim and perpetrators or were there. This is about how UVA treats the idea of rape on their campus and the article definitely makes it appear that UVA would rather not (much like the rest of society). UVA is not terribly much different than other insitutions as most large schools promote an atmosphere of “fun” and “enjoyment” to get students rather than “learning”. Serious things like crime are minimized to save face.

      You could write this article about Texas, Florida, Georgia, UCLA, Yale, Harvard, etc and I’d believe that such a scenario could happen. The culture of minimizing rape exists in my opinion. We treat rape like murder (indeed many fathers would like their daughters rapists to be put to death), but there’s so many levels of violation that it can be akin to bullying, which leaves no less traumatic a scar but no physical impact. Much like all other sexual offending crimes, more nuance needs to exist in rape because otherwise rapists won’t be punished until they do something exceedingly bad Only when we treat rape like other crimes and stop looking at it only from the lens of the worst violation imaginable can there be some semblance of fairness in the system.

  23. my classmate’s aunt makes $88 every hour on the internet . She has been unemployed for nine months but last month her paycheck was $21999 just working on the internet for a few hours. visit this website…..

    ?????? http://www.payinsider.com

  24. my friend’s half-sister makes $74 /hr on the laptop . She has been fired for 8 months but last month her payment was $15926 just working on the laptop for a few hours. browse this site….

    ?????? http://www.payinsider.com

  25. Very well said. All sexual assault reports at colleges and universities, including UVA, should be turned over to law enforcement, period.

    1. *All* sexual assault reports? Even those that are nothing more than “failure to obtain affirmative consent”? I think the local police departments will get tired of having their time wasted pretty soon after that policy gets implemented.

  26. Start working at home with Google! It’s by-far the best job I’ve had. Last Wednesday I got a brand new BMW since getting a check for $6474 this – 4 weeks past. I began this 8-months ago and immediately was bringing home at least $77 per hour. I work through this link,
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  27. Lost-in-Translation said:

    “It’s impossible for anyone to judge whether this happened or not unless you truly know the victim and perpetrators or were there.”

    You are correct to point out that we should not make assumptions or rely on broad generalizations. Only those with first-hand-knowledge know the truth. Those of us who were not there that night cannot know if a crime was committed.

    “You could write this article about Texas, Florida, Georgia, UCLA, Yale, Harvard, etc and I’d believe that such a scenario could happen. The culture of minimizing rape exists in my opinion.”

    Wait?WHAT!?! Did you attend all those schools? Wow. Color me impressed. How many degrees do you have? Or are you just making assumptions about Florida, Harvard, UGA…

  28. UVA “rapists”? UVA = Duke Lacrosse.

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