Could Sen. Udall Cap His Career by Telling Us the Contents of Senate's Secret Torture Report?
Sen. Mark Udall (D-Colo.) lost his seat to Rep. Cory Gardner, one of the new class of Republicans who helped take control of the Senate. Though Udall perhaps didn't run a very good campaign, he was a very strong voice on the Senate Intelligence Committee for trying to restrain the National Security Agency's surveillance tactics and pushing for greater transparency and protections of Americans' civil liberties from the security state.
As he prepares to leave office, there is one last powerful act many civil liberties activists are hoping he'll take. The Senate Intelligence Committee is currently locked in a struggle with both the CIA and the Obama administration about the release of the Senate's report on torture committed by the CIA during the war on terror under the Bush administration. The release of the report has been delayed for ages. The current fight is over how much content from the report (or rather, the small party of the report that will be released) should be redacted.
What some folks want is for Udall, as essentially his last act as a senator, to read the contents of the torture report into the Senate record. Dan Froomkin at The Intercept contacted former Sen. Mike Gravel of Alaska for moral support. Gravel entered the Pentagon Papers into the congressional record back in 1971 before the Supreme Court lifted an injunction against press publication. Froomkin spoke to Gravel over the phone:
Gravel's recommendation: "What he'd have to do is call a subcommittee meeting like I did, late at night."
Back in 1971, Gravel first tried to read the Papers from the Senate floor. He even got himself rigged up with a colostomy bag so he wouldn't need to take breaks. But he was stymied by an unexpected procedural move.
So he moved to Plan B: He called a late-night subcommittee meeting with almost no notice to the other members.
Gravel read some of the Pentagon Papers out loud, but challenged by dyslexia and overcome with emotion, he finally opted for another way: "I asked for unanimous consent to put it in the record of the subcommittee. And there was no one there to object."
But things have changed a lot since then. Froomkin explored the current Senate rules and thinks that Udall could still pull the same trick even in this day and age. Read more here.
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Americans' civil liberties from the security state
Which is why he voted to gut the first Amendment.
And there's a shitload of Republicans who stand behind the Second Amendment but treat the Fourth as toilet paper. Nobody's even close to perfect in Washington.
The courts are what treat the 4th like toilet paper. Thanks for playing.
Pshaw. ALL statists treat the constitution like toilet paper -- politicians, judges, prosecutors, admins -- every last one of them.
Play better next time.
...Robert Jordan? I thought you were dead?!
I especially love that according to progressives when the government spies on us for national security it's terrifying and evil, but when they spy on us in order to judge our eating habits, control our health care system, or make sure there are no guns in the house, it's perfectly acceptable.
Meanwhile, conservatives would freak out if government tried to find out if they had guns in the house, but wire tapping is totally cool if it'll catch the terrorists, yo.
In fairness to conservatives (and none of this should be construed to support either view) in their world of the benign surveillance state, government only ever acts against perpetrators. The NSA passes along tidbits to the FBI and the terrorists are apprehended, but the rest of us enjoy our quiet civilian lives without bother.
In the progressive panopticon, we're all perpetrators and we're all set to be judged. Social justice is omnipotent and omnipresent justice at the hands of our stone-hurling peers.
Are you trying to talk him out of doing the right thing here, or into it?
Your rhetoric is without purpose and confusing.
If he were to just dump essentially the entire report, with the minimum necessary redacting, I don't think there's anything anyone could or would to him.
He should if the rules permit him to. It would be one last FU directed at the Obama administration and the hypocritical members of the GOP. That would be nice to see.
Just do it.
Typical GOP Member of Congress: Wait! The Bush administration trampled on civil liberties and violated the law on numerous occasions too? This can't be. They were simply looking out for our safety. Benghazi is the only potential crime/scandal in the last 15 years that merits serious investigation. To suggest that laws should be followed regardless of party affiliation is ridiculous. You libertarians are nuts!
Well, you've got us there.
That's ableist!
I prefer the term mentally unique, thank you very much.
Please. Who ever heard of bad behavior from the *Bush Administration?*
They were pure as the driven snow. If Rumsfeld, Ashcroft or Dick Cheney have ever behaved inappropriately, I don't know what I'd do.
Unlikely to impossible. Open the Government Skeleton Closet once and everyone's come out - Team Red and Team Blue alike. Besides, breaking the faith like that will ruin his post-congress lobbying job.
What would Mo think?
The problem is that no matter how many skeletons fall out of the closet clutching smoking guns, nobody is going to do a thing about it. Look at all the squawking about what Snowden revealed about the NSA - has anything changed a bit? In a way, I would hate to see the report released if it does show some horrible illegal acts - the lack of an angry mob showing up anywhere to do anything at all about it will show the Stasi just how much shit they can get away with making us eat. Rather than curbing any excesses, it will only wind up encouraging more.
The difference is that there was a Republican President that the media hated in 1971 whereas there is a Democratic President the media loves today. Totally different.
There was also a lot of Democratic factionalism at the time, including opposition to Lyndon Johnson, but there has been no internal opposition to Obama.
There might be some evolving. He is presiding over a very big setback for the Democrats that may get even setbackier if they don't scrape them off their shoe.
Of course, one of the big problems for the Democrats is that they've been decreasing in sanity and rationality for a long time. Obama is not a surprising result for them.
Of course, one of the big problems for the Democrats is that they've been decreasing in sanity and rationality for a long time
Right there is the gist of it, Prol. They've jumped the proverbial shark and there is no turning back. My guess at this moment is that they are going to get even more destroyed in 16 and espeically 18, but then again, it's hard to underestimate the stupid party's ability to stupid.
What we really need is more libertarians in the GOP.
Even so, nothing happened to Bush when he was in office either, so there is more to the story than just that.
If they didn't want to be tortured, then maybe they shouldn't have a nervous system.
There will be time to have principles. Now is not that time.
Guilty until proven innocent should be the rule of thumb then?
I hope you are joking.
You hope I'm joking? I hope you learn how to figure out obvious sarcasm.
It's always hard to tell over the internet. Unfortunately, there are people that actually believe that, so one can never be sure. Thanks for the clarification.
There will be a time to make profits. Now is not that time.
Rather well known quote. Change two words from it and you're scratching you're head wondering if it's sarcasm? You're a genius. Need clarification on that, too?
*your head*
I actually wasn't aware of it. It's definitely possible that it's more famous than I think, but I don't see it referenced all that often.
I did thank you for the clarification, so I don't necessarily see the need for a rude response.
You're rather lucky that SugarFree didn't see fit to, um, educate you.
he doesn't have the ovaries.
Well, since this afternoon's posting activities are a little on the boring side, I thought I would try to liven it up a little bit with this take on our most favoritist fat fembot, Lena Dunham:
We love you Lena
I find Lena Dunham to be a disgustingly entitled pig monster
Normally I would have always found that to be a little offensive, but since the leftist PC crowd have taken off their gloves and asked for a slug fest, I'm game.
This is a boring topic?
Well, it's not exactly getting hundreds of comments. And BTW, thread hijack is a perfectly acceptable maneuver around here.
I'm of the opinion that Lena Dunham is a far more boring topic.
Being more boring than Mark Udall is a pretty severe insult. I approve.
Also, the article is hilarious. That was actually more of my point.
It's acceptable to you because you accept yourself doing it. The rest of us find it kind of irritating, especially when it's to endlessly bump some SoCon bullshit street beef with some chick on HBO.
Ah, Hugh's a little sweet on Lena.
Actually I think she looks like a linebacker and I have never seen anything she has written or been in, nor do I care to.
But sometimes I am unable to control my contempt for kulturkamp retards.
If you're unaware of the kulturkamp doings of Ms. Dunham, perhaps you're not even remotely aware of what the kulturkamp is these days. Might want to pay attention instead of immediately chalking it up to SoCon-ism if one has an adverse reaction to her.
I'm willing to bet that whatever she's doing has zero effect on me unless I take upon myself to be offended by the actions of other people.
Call me when she gains political power.
Call me when celebrities don't use their enormously outsized influence to attempt both personal and political wars. From the headline: Lena Dunham is getting political on her book tour. And she's always been ardently political. Ignore at your peril, frankly.
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/po.....book-tour/
So she's using her fame to advocate in favor of people voting for candidates she agrees with? OH NOEZ!!11! What if people who agree with her politics do something they were fairly likely to do even without her endorsement??
You're right of course, this threat of people saying things really does require my constant vigilance.
It doesn't if you don't want it to it. But her free political speech in the form of her show plus the nature of political and societal dialectic ought counsel you to be more humble in your comments to those who actively understand that these things shape policy and debate.
That's what I'm driving at. You might hate the culture war, but the culture war doesn't give a shit what you think about it. It'll impose its standards regardless, and eventually you'll have to deal with it. It's that simple. See: Wendy Davis and Emily's List. Are you going to tell me that throwing massive weight behind this has no policy implications? You can't.
* scratch that last "it" in the first sentence of my reply.
Also, in re-reading my post, I did not mean to come off rude. I just apparently did, though. My apologies.
I still refuse to care about Lena Dunham, and no amount of culture war soft targets will convince me otherwise.
You won't regret it.
I only care about her because she is a very visible face of the leftist retard army. Exposing these people and having them laughed to scorn is important. Having voters being repulsed by them and switching alliances is more important.
Even if she merely represented the left's left-most fringe, it is worth putting her rhetorically disembodied head on a pike declaring "no further".
Yeah, it's amazing how those defending their positions in normal life are accused of joining the "culture war" when the very instigator of said war was doing the attacking and then got called on her weird, possibly sexually abusive memoir.
Why is it that when people defend their way of life from these whack jobs, the people doing the defending are accused of joining the war in some way. What, we should wait for these people to help influence opinion and policy before we speak up right back? No way, mang.
Or, you might be done with teh culture war, but teh culture war isn't done with you.
Is this the last post of the day? Shameful.
That really depends on what Udall does, doesn't it?
Mary Landrieu shows how not to win a Senate election.
Landrieu has been trying out this campaign slogan called 'where was Bill?' where she basically says that Bill Cassidy wasn't there when a VA hospital needed to be rebuilt after Katrina, and therefore he is evil.
Here's Bill Cassidy's response:
This is why campaign slogans that are questions are a terrible idea. All your opponent has to do is answer them effectively and you look like a fucking idiot.
You think they would have been intelligent enough to do some basic research. I assume Cassidy's story checks out, so this is quite embarrassing for Landrieu.
Not only that, but you'd think she'd know the history of her own party.
In 1988, Ted Kennedy tried to attack George H.W. Bush by asking 'Where was George?' during various Reagan era scandals.
In response to this, Republicans made pins saying "Where was George? Dry, sober, and home with his wife," a pretty obvious jab at Kennedy over Chappaquiddick Bay.
Again, asking questions as part of your political campaign always backfires because all your opponent has to do is come up with a witty answer.
The Democrats have canceled a bunch of Landrieu ads. They know she's toast in the runoff.
But what's up with Alaska? Are there still votes coming in by dogsled, or what?
Udall and Wyden basically came out and told us we were being spied on by the NSA. In addition to torture, it would be nice to get to that, too.
He should if the rules permit him to.
Fuck the rules. If the government is doing something unconstitutional, it is his duty to reveal it. Gather everything wrong-headed unconstitutional thing that has a paper trail and go all Edward Snowden on their ass.
Course, that would require this guy to have the cojones to ride out the repercussions.
I guess you are more optimistic than I am. It was also Obama's duty to seriously investigate and/or prosecute the Bush administration, but we all know how that turned out. He basically doubled down.
Oh, I'm not optimistic about a statist soon-to-be-excongressman reading the constitution and saying, "hey, maybe I should finally follow this!"
He's had years to do the right thing. Why would now be different?
Didn't he and Wyden essentially announce that they'd love to talk about what was going on with the NSA but they'd be arrested?
As Doherty would point out, being arrested is not a thing to be taken lightly. Those two Ds have skirted the line numerous times, IIRC. I'd love to see another article about it.
I think the government would think twice about arresting a sitting Senator for exposing unconstitutional acts. But, unfortunately, that would mean a member of the government would have to turn on the government, and at great personal risk, which seems wildly improbable.
TI thread?
Things have gone to shite.
I heard all the cool kids decided to meet somewhere else and ditch the rest of us.
INDEPENDENTS CONVENE!
Prediction: Threadless
...much like the Bible.
MOYNIHAN! That explains it.
Milkey Cereal
So if Welch isn't on, Reason doesn't bother with a dedicated thread.
Does this mean Welch is a star or that he is the one tasked with posting the thread each night?
Well, he is the only host who is also editor of this magazine.
"Does this mean Welch is a star or that he is the one tasked with posting the thread each night?"
Or, he chooses to toot his own horn.
Looks like.
Welch forgot to delegate to one of his army of underlings apparently.
Russian is upset over portrayal of WW2 Soviet Army by Hollywood:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ldddwRaTMO8
You do any reading on the Great Patriotic War and you'll run into very specific stats on how many 'factories' got moved out of the German occupied territories.
And you'll find they agree, book-to-book. And you'll find they all seem to cite one of the other books claiming that number.
The numbers verge on unbelievable and for all the effort I've spent trying to chase down the primary source, I've yet to find it.
By now, I don't believe them.
There are lies, damn lies, statistics, and communist statistics.
I mentioned this in the Berlin Wall thread, but it's worth repeating:
Judt in "Post War" makes the point that the GDR's most valuable export was bent stats to keep foreign banks buying E. German paper.
I've never seen it, but he claims Honecker was doing a telecast where he claimed X GDP; Gorby was standing behind him and audibly snorted at the claim.
I listened to a lecture from a Romanian who worked as an economist during the Cold War. He said that when he would present his figures, his boss would tell him to back to his office, drink some vodka, and revise them.
This is how the Romanian economic miracle happened.
I'd love if you could hang a name on that; I'd cite it constantly.
OK, gimme a few minutes.
In the meantime, here is a lecture from Soviet defector Yuri Maltsev. He has a lot of great stories working as a Soviet economist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mb5555PCfU
Sorry, couldn't find it. I know it's out there though. I will try again after I return from the gym.
"Sorry, couldn't find it. I know it's out there though. I will try again after I return from the gym."
No sweat. You've covered enough for a while here.
Thx.
I recall Orwell made sure to attack Soviet bent stats in 1984. You know the Chocolate rations and such.
Cuba supposedly has 100% literacy. I wonder how low the real number is.
Also, Cuba totally has an 80 year life expectancy and low infant mortality. I mean, independent observers have never actually taken any statistics, but why shouldn't we trust the Cuban government?
Have I shown you the ridiculously Kafkaesque lie Raul Castro told on T.V. a few years back? It's from this great article by Michael Totten:
Clearly they'd never lie about infant mortality stats though.
As usual, Stossel has it covered:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6ZH1ps20WA
Even if they do live 1 month longer on average, I'd gladly sacrifice 1 month for freedom.
But Michael Moore said so! Why, he's the most trustworthy man in Hollywood!
Did he just say aboot?
So the these mid-terms had the lowest (34.6%) turnout (for mid-terms) in 72 years. I think that is a positive sign.
Now if the 2016 elections are also very low that will be an excellent trend.
If we could see increased tax evasion, refusal to do jury duty and a decrease in respect for the cops and the justice system overall, and refusals to get permits and such like and thus more people ignoring the various governments that beset them how could that be anything but good news?
If the goal is to reduce the effect of statism in our lives this is a far better route to go than violent upheavals.
Yeah, let's not go the southern European route, please.
refusal to do jury duty
How about refusal to convict for victimless "crimes"?
Good luck getting on a jury with that attitude.
It's not a tax, it's a freakin' penalty.
it will be deemed a penal-subsidy?
When does it become Obamadoesntcare?
2008
Behold the faces of lunacy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_cqjb3uery0
I can see why only about 300 people watch CNN. good gawd
OMFG! The denial.
Shorter version of the blond chick:
"Obama keeps telling the voters that things are doing great, and yet they voted in more Republicans. Clearly, Obama needs to keep on doing the same things, and saying the exact same things that are obviously true, but in a different way so those ignorant voters finally get it!"
I think the blond chick used to be on FOX.
Nice to see her sticking to her principles.
Wasn't Obama the orator of a generation? But now people aren't connecting with the message?
Doesn't the court "lean libertarian"?
It's just not the same without MATT.
This asshole is using Carbonite to hide his porn stash from his old lady.
What? A second segment with the party panel? This show is all over the place, formatwise.
You know, Moynihan, those slim fit suits are going to go out of style.
In 1970.
Just the tip.
Of the iceberg? Someone has a high opinion of himself.
Past?
"There are so many angles to get her from..."
Heyyyyy-oh.
Brain Bleach
So I made a video to debunk the "voting against their interests" nonsense:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-p0bokinKQ
I can't even fathom the hubris it requires to believe that you know another's interests well enough to declare that one is "voting against them".
Oh, I can fathom that hubris. It's called "living in New England."
Ironically, or not, that's where I live.
I still can't fathom it.
I live here, too. It's always stunning to see how well other people know somebody's interests, isn't it?
Well, just today I was told how great it was that my taxes pay for public education so I don't have to worry about stuff like deciding what sort of education I want for my child!
"so I don't have to worry about stuff like deciding what sort of education I want for my child!"
I'm sure you're
.
.
.
.
underwhelmed!
Obviously someone knows what's in another person's interest ? otherwise, they wouldn't run for office!
Moynihan should at some point when he's on national television acknowledge when he's joking. Especially when insisting his lies are true.
Why does Shriners need to raise money? If only those parents had signed up for the platinum ACA plans, they wouldn't need a place like Shriners.
/SinglePayerEnthusiast
Faces of NYC
Everyone knows DLR doesn't cast a shadow.
Turning the teleprompter into a karaoke machine.
Obama has not rhythym
Nor feck.
Love Fox Biz? Run, Kennedy. Run.
Cletus is #40 000.
The POTUS singing. How dignified.
Hans Gruber's brother.
Get him his detonators.
Well his brother refused to bomb kids which something that Obama is perfectly fine doing.
So when did the Republican nomination get into high gear in 2011? Didn't they have candidate debates starting in like October?
Conquered Massachusetts
Bush-Clinton in 2016.
How about Lodge-Kennedy?
It may be overkill, but I refuse to vote for any ticket with a "Kennedy" on it. Just to be safe.
The Alliance when two parties became one.
And the chocolate ration?
Trim the bushes...
So where is Welch anyway? Attending a You Know What?
Well, the administration knows alot about how websites work.
"Well, the administration knows alot about how websites work."
True, but those folks know a whole hell of a lot more about how they don't.
indeed. I forgot to affix my /sarc tag
Aah!
So will Obama's midterm loss make him more of a stealth libertarian?
http://reason.com/archives/201.....-libertari
There are times when Matt's 'confusing'. Or maybe 'confused'.
He also contradicts his own "libertarian moment" spiel:
It's a pathetic statement about contemporary American politics that a few short years from now, libertarians may start to feel nostalgic for the guy
Someone in that thread mentions the number of jobs created under Bill Clinton, which deserves a second look for a very important reason.
Whenever I talk to progressives, I'm always assured that Democrats are great job creators because their presidents have created 'X number more jobs than Republicans.' Looking at that graph however, it's pretty obvious that Bill Clinton is a massive outlier and that no other Democratic president comes close.
As a result, the real message is that milquetoast moderate Bill Clinton created shitloads of jobs with the aid of a Republican congress while the other Democratic presidents lagged far, far behind.*
Kind of thwarts the 'Democrats are job creators' argument, doesn't it?
*In fairness, raw job creation numbers are stupid to begin with because they don't take into account differences in populations. The two most impressive job creators are therefore probably Nixon and Johnson since they each had very high job creation stats at a time of a much smaller population and each only served one full term.
I know what you're saying, but Clinton didn't create any jobs. That right there is a fallacy. He may not have fucked it up, and I'll give him credit for that, but it's not like he contributed to the tech/dot-com boom.
Yes, but that's beside the point. The left's argument wouldn't even hold water if Clinton did create jobs since two of the top three are Republicans.
I find it hilarious that Mary Stack disliked my video within 10 minutes of me posting it. She must obsess over everything I write here.
Earth to Mary: You are insane. Get Help.
Wow. She's mentally ill.
Also, she's clearly both Flaming Ballsack and On the Road to Mandalay. I was on the fence about whether they were Mary, but both have gone so insane over the last two weeks that they must be.
Dunno. The road guy's been over the edge for some time.
So the question I have is whether she's a lefty ignoramus who's willing to spend a lot of keyboard time, or whether she's just bat-shit crazy?
She seems batshit crazy. Going all primitivist as White Indian and claiming the she only disagreed with Ron Paul over foreign policy yet her attacks on libertarians are on anything but foreign policy.
Yeah, some people here seem to think she's a prog but she isn't. Nothing she says is true. She's just a psychotic stalker who makes up fake personas in order to harass people while whiling away the days until she's eaten by her cats.
So we should cheer the cats on?
I get the feeling that she didn't like the way she was treated on HnR and has an insane vendetta on libertarians, kind of like Bruce Bartlett.
"So the question I have is whether she's a lefty ignoramus who's willing to spend a lot of keyboard time, or whether she's just bat-shit crazy?"
Yes.
i am soeone who doesnt pander to your delusions of granduer. believe me that the only people who dont see that your philosophy is a hodgepodge of halfbaked ideas and clung to on faith is you.
but its fun to troll people wih suchbatshit belifs and umwarranted self-importnce too. sane rational people arent so easily baited . i couldnt get nearly the same response from the blaze or think progress as i do here.
"but its fun to troll people wih suchbatshit belifs"
Yes, it is, you pile of shit, and trolling you is a real pleasure.
Oh, and fuck off.
Mary, why don't you go back to making terrible youtube videos which will be viewed by 12 people?
How can anyone be this pathetic? I really don't understand. You've been doing this for what, 5 years?
5 years Mary. You're clearly alone and have no friends or family, but instead of using those years of your life to get yourself together, take your medication, and maybe see a psychiatrist, you desperately troll a site you hate, make bizarre and deranged youtube videos that no one cares about, and even try to stalk people here in real life.
I heard you sent an email to someone regarding a Reason meetup under a fake name. Do you realize how crazy that is? Moreover, do you realize how deranged and probably emotionally broken you have to be to run multiple fake accounts at once all with different preconstructed personalities?
"Moreover, do you realize how deranged and probably emotionally broken you have to be to run multiple fake accounts at once all with different preconstructed personalities?"
Tulpa would know...
north koreans learning the enefit of the invisible hand
http://www.theguardian.com/glo.....aves-qatar
Qatar's treatment of its migrant labourers has come under increasing scrutiny as it gears up for the 2022 World Cup, following a Guardian report last year that revealed widespread deaths and abuse among migrant workers. In May 2014 the emirate announced a series of reforms to improve their living and working conditions.
A spokesperson from the ministry of labour and social affairs said: "We take all issues around worker payment extremely seriously. There are currently 2,800 North Korean guest workers registered in Qatar and we have no recorded complaints about their payment or treatment.
LOL. Those North Koreans would currently be starving to death if they were still in North Korea.
Yeah, it would be way better if Qatar left them where they were so they could live like this woman and beg strangers for scraps to stop her from starving to death.
You really are a vile sociopath, Mary.
you dont blink when human beings are ground into the sand for the sake of luxury hotels and im the sociopath? you did read the bits which said that no matter what theyre still starving to death. i guess disposale people are okay as long as it isnt you?
Flaming Ballsack|11.10.14 @ 10:36PM|#
"you dont blink when human beings are ground into the sand for the sake of luxury hotels and im the sociopath?"
You slimy piece of shit, you don't blink when someone's family is tortured for what a relative said?
Fuck off.
Yes, nothing says "free market" like the development directed and funded by the sovereign wealth fund of an absolute monarchy.
Disposale people? Are those people who sell alcohol? Strange that they'd be in Qatar, but what evs.
Did you even read that story? North Korea is awful and what the people endure there is heart wrenching.
But in trying to use their suffering to criticize the free market, which is in no way shape or form what exists in this situation, you betray your lack of concern for their human suffering. Instead you'd rather score points. And you can't even do that!!
Wow. I hadn't actually read the article. So the North Korean state is using its own people as forced slave labor and Mary is arguing this is the fault of the free market?
Yes, and commie-kid is trying to equate the mess in the former Eastern Block with a free market.
Slimy lefties have no more concern for ethics than those things that crawl out of the sewers.
It's not Commie-kid, it's Mary. She basically admitted it upthread.
She's a broken, pathetic individual and despite her psychosis and the obvious danger she poses to herself and others, it's hard not to feel a bit of sympathy.
Irish|11.10.14 @ 11:22PM|#
"It's not Commie-kid, it's Mary. She basically admitted it upthread."
You mean commie-kid in the Berlin thread is Mary also? I'm having a hard time believing someone can act as such different personalities.
Irish|11.10.14 @ 11:22PM|#
"It's not Commie-kid, it's Mary. She basically admitted it upthread."
Also, commie-kid is on the Gruber thread claiming that reasonable people shrug their shoulders over such mendacity.
I remember the press doing that when Bush was prez.
According to the article, that is precisely it. I strongly suspect the Qatari government is aware of this, if not actively supporting it. But Qatar is hardly a bastion of liberty and respect for individual rights, especially for foreigners.
If you are hiring people from NK (which automatically means the government of NK), you are not interested in free market exchanges. You are hiring slaves and should know that.
I think it was Vice that went to lumber camps in eastern China where the norks had people 'employed', sorta, if you get my drift.
Yeah it was Vice, but it was Siberia. Surprisingly the only people would will trade with North Korea nowadays tend to be corrupt autocracies.
'Surprisingly the only people would will trade with North Korea nowadays tend to be corrupt autocracies.'
I'll presume the "surprisingly" was sarc...
Incredibly.
Ah Qatar!
In short, Qatar is going to kill two people because they think it cray-cray that two Asian people would adopt 3 kids from Africa because they, you know, loved them. No, to them the more "rational" explication is that they wanted to harvest their organs.
MY GF is recieving "human organ trafficking education" from a US State government right now. It was mandatory as part of a promotion.
Trollo|11.11.14 @ 12:27AM|#
"MY GF is recieving "human organ trafficking education" from a US State government right now. It was mandatory as part of a promotion."
Is there any part of it that relates to reality?
So far, everything I've read sounds like the 'satanic rituals' panic of the '80s.
I'm sure the obama admin will intervene and use its powerful diplomatic capital to help these people
/the uncynical part of my brain
They'll send Clapper. It has the side benefit of keeping him the hell away from where someone might interview him.
Flaming Ballsack|11.10.14 @ 10:23PM|#
"north koreans learning the enefit of the invisible hand"
FB spreading lefty bullshit.