Michael Brown Shooting

Official Autopsy: Michael Brown Reached for Officer's Gun

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The official autopsy on Michael Brown, leaked to the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, suggests that he was shot in the hand at close range and may have reached for the police officer's gun, outside experts told the newspaper.

That would contradict what private experts reported after they conducted an autopsy for Brown's family. Those experts said there were no signs of a struggle between Brown and Officer Darren Wilson, who shot him to death Aug. 9 in the suburb of Ferguson.

A supplemental examination in the official autopsy published by the Post-Dispatch found material "consistent with products that are discharged from the barrel of a firearm" in Brown's right hand.

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  1. I despise news like this. I appears that the conclusion that Brown reached for the gun is conjecture or speculation based upon circumstantial evidence, at best. At worst, it’s a flat-out lie, made up to protect the government and its minions. We are misled so often by our government, how in the hell would we ever know?

    1. What’s most curious is why it took so long for this “news” to be released. Surely the cop involved knew why he’d shot and told his bosses, and surely if that were true, they’d have said so right away.

      I don’t have enough imagination to think up fairy tales about why they would sit on this for several months, but neither do I have enough imagination to think they have spent several months fabricating an autopsy report from whole cloth.

      It’s just a huge puzzle. All it really does is make me even more suspicious of the police version of events, and confirm my opinion that even so-called good cops can’t be very good if they won’t rat out the bad cops.

    2. I don’t know which narrative is true and I’m certainly not a fan of cops but the “private experts” likely have a dog in this fight as well, ie major civil suit and expert witness fees.

    3. “…appears that the conclusion that Brown reached for the gun is conjecture or speculation based upon circumstantial evidence, at best.”

      Bullshit. All the evidence indicates that Brown was a fucking moron, and reached inside the police vehicle’s driver’s-side window. Initial witness reports support the autopsy results.

      Gunshot through the hand with no stippling outside, but residue inside, indicates hand on muzzle of gun when it fired.

      It doesn’t fucking matter if he was reaching for a gun, or not. It doesn’t matter that he was unarmed. At the point that Brown breaks the plane between the outside of the vehicle, and the inside of the vehicle, ANY CITIZEN would have been justified in shooting him. Why shouldn’t the cops have the same rights to self-defense as anyone else?

      While there have been numerous shootings of innocent people by the police, this isn’t one of them, and hitching the libertarian wagon to this shooting makes you all look like fucking morons, buying into the “my baby dint doo nuffin” narrative in spite of the facts, not because of them.

      1. *hitching the libertarian wagon to this shooting makes you all look like fucking morons*

        It’s too late. The foundation of this entire website is 24/7 cop-hate. Just look at the imbeciles commenting above you, they think the coroner’s involved in the conspiracy.

        1. Libertarians have no problem with a justified shooting.

          Libertarians have problems with the consistent lying by the cops; the militarization of the cops; the political/public pandering to the cops; and their Us vs. Them mentality.

          1. I don’t think that libertarians have a monopoly on that feeling. My point is that this is clearly a justified shooting, but for some reason, probably because of the “white cop shoots unarmed black baby” aspect of the story, it gets more attention from libertarians than the “muslims rape a fuck-load of girls in Great Britain, or anywhere else they’re present in any numbers” story. I’m curious as to why?

            1. *it gets more attention from libertarians than the “muslims rape a fuck-load of girls in Great Britain, or anywhere else they’re present in any numbers” story. I’m curious as to why?*

              Because Muslims might blow up your building, bus, subway; shoot you and your family at the mall; slice off your head after abducting you; etc., if you have the guts to call them out/confront them.

              Cops will just shoot your pit bull.

              And you can always get another pitbull.

              1. Can’t people call out both of them like Mark Steyn does?

                1. I would hope so, but that doesn’t seem to be the case, does it? How many Reason articles on Ferguson? How many on muslim rapists?

      2. — At the point that Brown breaks the plane between the outside of the vehicle, and the inside of the vehicle, —

        He scores a touchdown, right?

  2. Doesn’t matter. Cop shot an unarmed civilian. Case closed. Cop’s guilty. No need for facts. They don’t call it “Reason Magazine” for a reason.
    Seriously, guys. There is such a burning prejudice against cops on this blog, I’m almost convinced most of the “commenters” are crooks.

    1. Dammit, BC, ya seen right through us. After all, what other explanation could there be?

      1. Just saying that the default setting is “the cop’s guilty because all cops are corrupt.” It’s been my experience that the one group of people with the most burning hatred of cops tend to be – surprise! – people who have had run-ins with the law.

        1. By run-ins with the law, you mean walking down the street and minding our own business until Officer FatnBored crosses our path.

          1. How about “Minor traffic stop revealed an outstanding, out of town misdemeanor warrant. Subsequently, placed under arrest, made bail and cleared up the warrant by paying the fine. Treated with respect and informed of options at all points. Never bad mouthed the cop or acted aggressive.” Like most of my interactions with cops, I treat them like human beings, and they treat me like a citizen. I have known cops I wouldn’t want to get stopped by on a dark Texas night in the middle of nowhere, but I’ve known a lot more cops that I would trust without concern. I’m just saying there seems to be a lot of pent up rage directed at cops on this site.

            1. How about getting called a faggot when you’re walking home late at night?

              Asking why I don’t have a job to go to the next day because I’m walking home late at night.

              If I was darker-skinned, they woulda shot me dead.

              1. *How about getting called a faggot when you’re walking home late at night?

                Asking why I don’t have a job to go to the next day because I’m walking home late at night*

                So how is Chicago these days?

              2. Are you a light-skinned, unemployed homosexual that walks the streets at night?

                1. I live in the city — where the pigs have a siege mentality.

                  I don’t live in some peckerwood Rust Belt shit-hole.

                  1. Aren’t most mid-western cities in peckerwood Rust Belt shit-holes?

                  2. Woah, don’t demean peckerwood Rust Belt shit-holes by comparing them to that police state of Chicago.

                    1. Sorry man, but what I’m hearing from Mongo sounds like “…San Dimas High School football rules!”.

        2. Or crime victims who called the cops and discovered that the cops could care less.

          Got a little booze on your breath or some weed in your pocket? Boy oh boy you’ve got their attention.

          Been the victim of assault, robbery, burglary, or some other crime? They’ll happily search you and your home for drugs so they can arrest you, but they won’t do anything about what happened to you.

          1. That’s a valid point. However, I have avoided that particular problem by not having illegal drugs on my person or property and not getting drunk. And I have reported break-ins, etc. and the cops were more interested in busting the burglar than checking to see if all my licenses were up to date.

            1. You’re insulated from the real world, BC.

              1. Maybe it’s you who is insulated from the real world. While I’ve encountered some grossly incompetent cops in my life, I’ve never had one yell slurs at me while I was walking at night, I’ve never had one beat me up, and I’ve never had one shoot me. I HAVE had numerous adversarial encounters with Law Enforcement, and I generally find that as long as I treat them with respect, I get treated with respect. I’ve found that if I speak clearly and concisely, and make it clear that I understand the law and will not roll over while my rights are abused, things generally go well. The statement “I will mortgage my fucking house and keep you tied up in court for the rest of your inconsequential career if I have to to fight this”, works much better than “yo, yo, yo…I dint do nuffin ya motha fuckin pig”.

                1. The statement “I will mortgage my fucking house and keep you tied up in court for the rest of your inconsequential career if I have to to fight this”, works much better than “yo, yo, yo…I dint do nuffin ya motha fuckin pig”.

                  I think you assume way too much.

                  1. I don’t assume much of anything.

                2. You: “I will mortgage my fucking house and keep you tied up in court for the rest of your inconsequential career if I have to …”
                  BANG! BANG! BANG!

                  (or, alternatively, BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! STOP RESISTING!)

                  Cop: “I WAS IN FEAR FOR MY LIFE!! Ooops! It was just a cell phone/a wallet/a piece of paper. Oh well, I guess I’ll go home for a month of paid leave before the board of inquiry clears me and I get back to work.”

            2. And I have reported break-ins, etc. and the cops were more interested in busting the burglar than checking to see if all my licenses were up to date.

              Good for you. Without exception every time I have reported a crime I have been ridiculed and/or treated like a criminal.

              Also, without exception, everything I have seen that was written by a cop about something I witnessed, from traffic tickets to incident reports, was fiction loosely based on fact, full of exaggerations, fabrications, and lying by omission.

              Their job is to get convictions and to cover their own asses. Which means making shit up and leaving the inconvenient bits out. Truth be damned.

              1. Interestingly enough, every time I have reported a crime, whether it be pointing out the location of a hiding bank robber, calling in a DUI, holding a fleeing felon at gun point, or rendering aid and comfort to a dying woman who was struck by an automobile, I wrote out and signed my own witness statements, and every cop I dealt with thanked me for giving a fuck. In fact, without exception, every time I’ve gotten involved as a citizen, the cops were surprised because it just doesn’t happen that often any more. There was one exception, and that was because the cop didn’t like the idea that I had a trauma kit with IV fluids, needles, sutures, and local anesthetics. We cleared that up.

                Pro tip: If you look like a mouth-breather, and act like a mouth-breather, don’t be surprised if you get treated like a mouth-breather.

                1. A while back I was crossing the road on a bicycle and struck by a kid who ran a red light. Some witnesses stuck around to talk to the cops. By the time the cop got there, the kid’s father had arrived, and he was screaming about who was going to fix his fucking truck. Well, he and the cop went aside for a little while, leaving me with the witnesses. When they returned, the cop shooed the witnesses away. He wasn’t interested in anything they had to say. He then issued me a DUI on a bicycle (at the time I didn’t even know that was a crime), though I blew 0.08 and the thresh hold was 0.10 (they do this to force a plea bargain), and then wrote a totally fictional report that said I caused the accident. Then the cop went home and slept well that night, feeling happy that he’d helped out the owner of the truck by putting me in a situation where I would have to pay to fix it.

                  1. You fucked up.

                    1. You should have gotten the names of the witnesses. They were your only hope because:

                    2. You were operating a vehicle while under the influence of alcohol. Yes, it’s petty, but it is the law.

                    3. You were involved in an accident while operating a vehicle while under the influence of alcohol.

                    Awhile back I was driving down the road when an intoxicated black man made a left turn in front of me and another vehicle while riding a bicycle. He missed me, but he literally drove his bicycle into the front of the car next to me. Bicycle was going about 25mph, and the car was going about 45 mph. The dude, no shit, flew into the air the height of a telephone pole, landed on the side of the road, and sustained nothing more than a broken ankle. He was shit-faced drunk, and before everything was said and done, the woman whose car HE hit was being sued. It gave me great pleasure to testify in court that the guy reeked of alcohol at the time of the accident, and that he literally rode his bike into the front of the car of the person he was suing.

                    1. Had I NOT been willing to stick around, and had I not been willing to testify, the woman and her insurance company would have been successfully sued, and a drunken shitbag AND a piece of shit attorney would have benefited financially by fabricating a bullshit story.

                    2. I was 21 yrs old. I was young and naive enough to believe that the police would be honest. Now I know better.

                    3. What ever lead you to believe that cops were any different than any other group of people?

                2. Thank goodness we give badges to those who can identify the mouth breathers and treat them accordingly.

                  Rights? What are those?

              2. — Their job is to get convictions and to cover their own asses

                Actually, they don’t much care about convictions. It’s arrests that they like… but mostly covering their own asses.

                1. Their job isn’t to “get convictions”; that’s the job of the DA. Their job is to enforce the law by arresting those who violate it.

            3. BC, why shouldn’t the average citizen be skeptical of cops and use of force against an unarmed civilian? We give cops the monopoly use of force . . . doesn’t that alone justify heightened scrutiny? Even if that alone weren’t enough in your mind, the systemic problem of “good” cops lying to cover for “bad” cops should be further justification for being very critical of cops and their self-serving reports. Why do you give the people with the monopoly on force the benefit of the doubt?

              1. “We give cops the monopoly use of force . . . ”

                No, WE do not. In almost every state, regular citizens can enforce the law, and in EVERY state, citizens can use force, up to and including deadly force to stop a violent felony.

                The problem isn’t that cops have a monopoly on the use of force, they don’t. The problem is that when it comes to government lawlessness, the citizenry are not willing to use force to enforce the law.

                1. — The problem is that when it comes to government lawlessness, the citizenry are not willing to use force to enforce the law.

                  You’re right. Just think how much better things would be if every time a cop behaved unlawfully, every citizen within 20 yards put a bullet in him!?

                  1. Look, if every citizen fought for justice with the same zeal they have for football or baseball, shit would get done. 30,000 people will drive 20 miles and stand in line for an hour to see some dudes throw a fucking ball around. The cops shoot an old lady in the face, and what happens? Not a fucking thing, because deep down inside, nobody really gives a fuck. People will squawk a little here and there, but given a choice of sitting outside the police station protesting, or watching that ball game, guess where they’re going to be.

                    I guarantee you that if a thousand regular, peaceable citizens with slung rifles stood outside a police station or courthouse, quietly demanding justice, shit would get fixed fast.

        3. … which is exactly what the cops want you to believe.

          I don’t have any criminal record – never been cited for anything more serious than a speeding ticket. But I have a very low opinion of cops in general. It wasn’t always so. I was raised with the mantra that “the policeman is your friend”. I just don’t believe it anymore.

          I think there was a day when most cops set out to do the right thing, to make society better for everyone, to uphold the law and go home safe. Today, I think cops fall into three categories – the one I just mentioned (which appears to be much diminished in size), those who just want an interesting job that pays well (but don’t give a shit about others), and the Napoleons. The guys with the tiny dicks. The authoritarians who just want to order people around. This is the group that appears to be growing.

          In the final analysis, there are NO good cops. Because if there WERE, they’d be arresting the bad cops – and we don’t see that happening, do we?

          So when the cops gun down a wino then fist bump each other, or pour 600 rounds into a car containing a hostage (hitting her 10 times and killing her) or murder yet another family pet – and no other cop stands up and says, “This is WRONG”, it’s quite clear – ALL of the apples are rotten.

          1. So when the cops gun down a wino then fist bump each other, or pour 600 rounds into a car containing a hostage (hitting her 10 times and killing her) or murder yet another family pet – and no other cop stands up and says, “This is WRONG”, it’s quite clear – ALL of the apples are rotten.

            Yep.

    2. Maybe it has something to do with your second sentence.

      Shockingly there are some in America who get exhausted after the “and nothing else happened” or “all relevant protocol was followed” tropes.

    3. After you see cops lie enough times as a matter of procedure, it becomes difficult to believe them. Even when they are telling the truth (if that ever happens).

  3. What a shock, the report the police puts out says the police narrative is correct.

    1. And it took them several months to do so.

    2. What a shock: The initial witness statements, the autopsy report, the involved officer’s statement, and the forensic evidence ALL corroborate the police version of events, and disprove the stories told by various “bystanders” once the “for profit” rioting took off.

      1. You do realize he could have been shot in the hand and then fatally several feet away giving up right?

  4. BREAKING

    Ferguson’s Office of Phrenology releases report detailing “cranial terrain suggesting criminal psychopathy” belonging to Michael Brown.

    1. I actually laughed out loud for a second.

  5. So was he shot in the hand after the earlier autopsy?

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