Tonight on The Independents: The 30-Year War, Gay Marriage Everywhere, Pyongyang Putsch, Defending Biden, That's Your Bush!, and Aftershow

Former defense secretary and CIA director Leon Panettta, while flogging his new memoir Worthy Fights: A Memoir of Leadership in War and Peace, told USA Today that "I think we're looking at kind of a 30-year war" against Islamic terrorist networks. Which totally doesn't have any negative connotation, above and beyond the bloody endlessness of it all! Anyhoo, this, along with the latest Ebola nonesense, will be an early topic on tonight's live episode of The Independents (Fox Business Network, 9 p.m. ET, 6 p.m. PT, with re-airs three hours later), featuring Party Panelists Lachlan Markay (Washington Free Beacon staff writer) and Richard Fowler ("Progressive Messaging Expert and all around good guy").

The Supreme Court today decided to not hear a bunch of gay marriage cases, which means that something like half the country can now legally gay-marry, the Pacific Legal Foundation's Timothy Sandefur will walk us through the legal/political thicket. Foreign policy analyst Michael Weiss will break down the latest battlefield confusion surrounding ISIS. The Panel will be back to assess the latest Jeb Bush boomlet. Michael Malice, author of the unauthorized autobiography of North Korean dictator Kim Jong Il titled Dear Reader (as well as of a great 2013 Reason feature "My Week in North Korea"), will discuss the latest bizarro Kim Jong Un rumors. And I will mount a qualified defense of Vice President Joe Biden's chronic foot-in-mouth disease.

Online-only aftershow begins at foxbusiness.com/independents just after 10. Follow The Independents on Facebook at facebook.com/IndependentsFBN, follow on Twitter @ independentsFBN, and click on this page for more video of past segments.

Comments

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Why didn't he call it the 29 year war? That would have been pretty slick.

[Hyperion]

What, only 30 years? What about a 1000 year war! What about a forever fucking war!

[Derpetologist]

Sorry, the best I can do is the 355 year war:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T.....Five_Years'_War

[Derpetologist]

See also:

http://www.cracked.com/article.....ts_p2.html

[SusanM]

OT: Abajo manera M?xico...

http://news.yahoo.com/mexican-.....43777.html

Mexico's federal forces took over security Monday in a southern city where 43 students disappeared and disarmed the entire municipal police force after gang-linked officers shot at the aspiring teachers.

[Hyperion]

Those proud officers should have sneaked across the border here and applied for jerbz with our own noble heroes. Shooting at random people here will get you promoted and if you steal their cash in the process, you might become a high knight of the noble order of something.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I'm not watching another episode until Moynihan is back.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Sexy Mr Burns.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

29-year-old woman who has been diagnosed with an aggressive form of terminal brain cancer is using the last weeks of her life to advocate for expanding Americans' access to doctor-assisted suicide.

http://thinkprogress.org/healt.....d-suicide/

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

I saw that on another site. There was a number that jumped out at me in the article. I'll see if I can find it.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Heh. People Magazine.
Here it is.

FTA: "Since then, 1,173 people have had prescriptions written under the act, and 752 have used them to die. "

That's what jumped out at me.

[trshmnster the terrible]

wow, that's a lot of people.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

What was surprising to me was how many people didn't use the prescriptions to die. Some people just wanted peace of mind.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Agreed, that's interesting.

[trshmnster the terrible]

I can't say that I'd spend my last weeks of my life doing that. I don't know whether I admire her or pity her.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

The brain cancer interrupted her attempt to have kids.

Sounds like she's trying to leave a legacy, and I can appreciate that.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

The Supreme Court today decided to not hear a bunch of gay marriage cases, which means that something like half the country can now legally gay-marry, the Pacific Legal Foundation's Timothy Sandefur will walk us through the legal/political thicket.

The issue is pretty much moot at that this point, or at least it will be until a Federal court decides there is a rational basis for a state to ban same-sex marriage. Which will probably be never.

So the debate is over, not with a bang, but a whimper.

[trshmnster the terrible]

On to the next battlefield in the Kultur War!

[Notorious G.K.C.]

The Supremes gave their Windsor decision, then let the lower courts figure out the implications of the decision, no need for the Supremes to get their hands dirty with an *explicit* acknowledgement that they're imposing SSM on the country. The fact that they're seeking plausible deniability says to me that they're uncomfortable with this particular form of judicial aggression, but lack the guts to put a stop to it.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Judicial aggression, heh heh.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

Hee-haw1

[Notorious G.K.C.]

!

[Mickey Rat]

It also gives Kennedy an out from having to explain how Windsor, which was based in part on an argument that the federal government has no business dictating marriage policy to the states, allows the federal courts to dictate marriage policy to the states.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

The 14th Amendment, which explicitly applies to the states. Windsor has a lot of federalism talk, but the key idea was animus.

[Mickey Rat]

I still believe the federalism aspect is an embarrassing elephant in the room. If the 14th amendment arguments were sufficient, why include any of the federalism?

Of course, the 14th amendment argument is nonsense on stilts in the first place. The states are not required to treat unlike relationships equally.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

The fact that Congress broke it's usual practice of deference to states was used as an indication of animus.

As to like or not, you're just begging the question of whether gender is a difference that makes a difference.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

imposing SSM on the country

As if the right didn't exist without government say-so.

[Mickey Rat]

There is no right to a contradiction in terms.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

derp

[BigT]

"imposing SSM on the country"

They're forcing us to go gay now? Times really have changed for the worse.

[Homple]

Think what you want about SSM, using the phrase "imposing SSM on the country" is not the same as "forcing us to go gay". Where all those who bawl "straw man" when somebody else pulls one like this out of the exit port of their digestive tract?

[Carl ?s his ? for ?s]

The folks at the WaPo editorial board are reasonable; they don't want a law enforcement backdoor into cellphones, they just want Apple and Google to use their "wizardry" (yes, they use that word) to invent a "secure golden key".

God I hate people.

[trshmnster the terrible]

Yes, the secure golden key!!! (Nevermind that the secure golden key just unlocks the backdoor) It's magic because nobody has ever thought of this before!!!

These are the same morons who argue that their j-school degree was just as hard as engineering school.

[juris imprudent]

Anyone who unironically says "wizardry" deserves to be shot twice in the head, immediately. Anyone who says it ironically dies "buckwheats".

[Carl ?s his ? for ?s]

The worst part of it is the obvious invitation for people to bring up that tired Clarke quote.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Washington Post draws on poll of Muslim world to assess whether Affleck or Maher was right

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....id=HP_more

[Bo Cara Esq.]

GOP Congressmen urge Obama to name Ebola Czar

http://www.washingtonpost.com/.....HP_federal

[juris imprudent]

Oh great, that's all we need... a War on Ebola.

[juris imprudent]

Oh great, that's all we need... a War on Ebola.

[Cdr Lytton]

Worse yet, squirrelz are so far immune to ravages of Ebola.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"EAST GREENBUSH, N.Y. -- For 115 years a Civil War veteran's grave has been unmarked in St. Agnes Cemetery in Menands. But a school project worked on by East Greenbush middle school students changed that Monday morning....

"Seventh and eighth grade students from the Holy Spirit School helped to keep history alive with every shovel of dirt.

""How many kids get to say they helped to install a Civil War veteran's grave stone? It's a very rare opportunity," Kelly Ann Grimaldi, the Albany Diocese cemetery historian.

"It was a long over due tribute for Albany-born Civil War veteran Pvt. James O'Connell."

http://albany.twcnews.com/cont.....-students/

Funny, they never mentioned the religious affiliation of the school and the students. Guess we'll never know.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

They do omit whether the kids were molested or not, that information would have been helpful in determining the denomination.

[Mickey Rat]

You are a nasty little bigot.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

Ah, a member of Donohue's League.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

They do omit whether the kids were molested or not, that information would have been helpful in determining the denomination.

[Notorious G.K.C.]

That's just as funny the second time as the first!

[Bo Cara Esq.]

I see you found your ! key

[Notorious G.K.C.]

"There's no question that the extension of civil rights protections to people with pedophilia must be weighed against the health and safety needs of others, especially kids. It stands to reason that a pedophile should not be hired as a grade-school teacher....

"Margo Kaplan is an assistant professor at Rutgers School of Law, Camden."

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10......html?_r=0

[Bo Cara Esq.]

More honest debate from Eddie.

[Episiarch]

Ha, Seahawks touchdown already. The Redskins might want to figure out that Russell Wilson runs the ball. Himself.

[Bo Cara Esq.]

That's game is going to be pretty ugly .

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

The broadcast is all messed up on my end.

[Episiarch]

Basically, Russell Wilson is running the ball himself for first downs about 70% of the time. The Redskin defense can't seem to stop him.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

They keep doing close up shots of DeSean and Sherman. Is there supposed to be some sort of rivalry?

[Sevo]

"And I will mount a qualified defense of Vice President Joe Biden's chronic foot-in-mouth disease."

I'm guessing it's 'He makes Obo look good by comparison'.

[Carl ?s his ? for ?s]

Law Enforcement Still Defending ComputerCOP: Says They'll Keep Distributing It Until After Someone's Been Hurt

With respect to the EFF [Limestone County, AL Sheriff Mike Blakely] said, "I'm not against their criticism but I just think they're probably more interested in protecting predators and pedophiles than in protecting our children."

Note that's not the same quote about pedophiles as before; it's him doubling down on it.

Contra Costa Assistant District Attorney Dan Cabral said Friday that the office has no plans to recall the software it distributed.

"If it turns up later that there's some sort of breach we will do so, but right now we feel it serves its purpose and it assists parents in what its supposed to do," Cabral said Friday.

I'm sure he'll keep that attitude in mind next time he prosecutes someone for negligence.

[GILMORE]

re: Richard "look at my shiny ties" Fowler -

the descriptor of 'all around good guy' is now being put in Scare Quotes, which i believe is an improvement.

That light blue suit of his has scored well in the past. I think the same thing on repeat will result in demerits. complacency will not be tolerated.

re: these party panels in general =

I want to see more fights between guests. Yeah, i know they're all hired-fox-puppets, but still. Poke them with a stick or something. There is no reason that a quality nightly news show can't also have a 5min cage-fight segment. Mike Malice v Jesse Myerson (with weapons); Gavin Mcinnes v. Coalition of Socialist Transsexuals; Rick Ungar v. 'pack of wolves', etc.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

INDEPENDENTS ASSEMBLE!

[Derpetologist]

Oh, joy!

I finally was able to buy some .22 lr. I last saw it on the shelf over a year ago.

When I shot it with my Ruger 10/22, I had to aim about 4 inches high to hit the target at 100 yards. I guess a .22 drops a lot more since it travels slower.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Did you buy subsonic?

[Derpetologist]

I think so- it was CCI in a black box.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

There's a rise at 50 yards, should be zeroed at 75, 4 inch drop at 100 isn't unreasonable.

[Derpetologist]

I use iron shots because I'm hardcore.

[Derpetologist]

*sights, not shots

[Fist of Etiquette]

Prediction: Hoops

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Do you ever guess anything other than hoops?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yes.

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

INDEPENDENTS, IT'S TIME FOR DODGER BASEBALLLLLL!!!!!

[BigT]

Kershaw tomorrow.

[Derpetologist]

OT: I survived my first day of double-secret probation at work. Hopefully I can appease them by putting on a show of being busy and deferential.

In the mean time, I have been pondering a career change away from manufacturing. I found a writing job in Baltimore for an investment newsletter. I think I'd like that- plus I could hang out with Hyperion.

I also thought about the Army. It turns out they have a salvage diver program- MOS 12D. Go figure. I also liked the combat engineer MOS. I really wanted to be an interpreter, but since I was in Peace Corps, I am banned from all military jobs involving a foreign language. I suppose I could try being a Nuclear propulsion officer in the Navy. If I apply before the end of the year, I'd make the cut-off. Tarran was a Nupoc I think.

Here are the pros and cons I worked out:

Pros: fitness, adventure, pride, job security
Cons: bureaucracy, lack of independence, death, injury, horror, hypocrisy with non-aggression principle and distrust of government

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Be, all what you can be.

[Derpetologist]

No, no- the slogan is "Army Strong, Army Smash!"

[Cdr Lytton]

since I was in Peace Corps, I am banned from all military jobs involving a foreign language

Really? When I was in (~10 year ago, not as linguist), there was minimum interval between Peace Corps and Army service (4 years? I think) and you couldn't be deployed to a country where you served in the Peace Corps.

[Derpetologist]

Hmm. I've been out for 5 years. I read something like ex-Peace Corps can be interpreters, but only for a different language than their Peace Corps one.

[BigT]

WTF? How is that making best use of resources?

[Derpetologist]

There have been persistent rumors that the Peace Corps is nothing but a veiled spy-grooming program. As a result, there is a strict wall between the Peace Corps and military/CIA.

[Rev-Match]

Will the beautiful forces of the free market be allowed to...?

No.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Fowler looks like he's getting away with something.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Spain, France, same diff.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I think whether or not it works doesn't matter. I want to FEEL SAFE DO SOMETHING ALREADY!!!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Oh, they're collecting a paycheck.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Yeah, killing OBL was a tough decision.

[Derpetologist]

It was toss up between killing him and sending him a nice card with some homemade cookies.

[Palin's Buttplug]

McCain, Dubya and Hillary all said they would not enter Pakistan without permission - effectively letting him go. That was the decision.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

We did get permission. There was no advance notice for that particular mission/

[Fist of Etiquette]

Follow the money, Welch. It started when Dick Cheney got Halliburton to fly planes into the Twin Towers.

[Derpetologist]

+1 Operation Northwoods

[trshmnster the terrible]

When do the lizard people rise up? Is that before or after the CIA kills all the black people using ebola?

[Rev-Match]

It's ok when TEAM BLUE does it, Welch. Get with the program.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Send in the clowns.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Does Weiss even have another job?

[Derpetologist]

I could fit in with ISIS with the appropriate garb & hair:

http://platedlizard.blogspot.c.....alive.html

[Notorious G.K.C.]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE

[GILMORE]

The Independents Attire Review, 6 October 2014

Social Justice-Edition

- Kennedy: Vanilla ice cream and Blueberry Pie. Yum. We'd be more enthused if the dress were less baggy. Otherwise, +1 Found My Thrill.

- Matt: Nazi Haircuts are going to be big this year; between Mike Moynihan and Herr Welch, we have a veritable panoply of Male Sex Symbols sporting Hitler-Youth Approved Coiffures. We hope he tipped his barber.

- Kmele: The reigning champ seems aware that he's confronting a party-panel of Well Dressed Men, and has hence abandoned the plaids, sweaters, bow-ties etc and returned to his core-competency of expertly-aligned monochromes. We like the tweed, but the button collar and baggy fit of the jacket comes off 'tired'.

- Lala Malarkey: We've seen him in this before, but we remain easily impressed by a well-cut grey suit. A purple tie would have clinched it, but this is a nice choice.

- Dickie Fowler: Snap. We were ready to throw this 'all around good guy' under the nearest public transport, but he remains bullet-proof, fashionwise. Damn you and your sassy confidence. Welch should steal your tie.

Toda raba

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Your Kennedy description got me to tune in, briefly.

I like.

[Rev-Match]

Screw this shit, I'm watching Megyn Kelly.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Finally. Journey.

[Derpetologist]

Journey? Really? Might as well play Freebird and Hotel California.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

I hate the fucking Eagles, man.

[Derpetologist]

Get. out. of. my. cab!

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Welch...

Nice singalong.

[GILMORE]

Kennedy will take the midnight train going anywhere

[Trouser-Pod]

OK, I could safely ignore the link in the past, as I just streamed it through the FBN site, but it's not working now.

So, what's the link for streaming TI that's been passed around so much?

[Raven Nation]

http://www.baqiworld.com/2011/.....ness-live/

[Trouser-Pod]

Thank you!

[Fist of Etiquette]

They're sick of the issue. Like everyone else.

[Derpetologist]

In other news, I got back the results from my 23andMe genetic screening. 100% European ancestry- no surprise there. It turns out I have some distant Ashkenazi ancestors on my Mom's side. The majority is British & Irish.

[GILMORE]

congratulations! you're jewish

[Derpetologist]

My Kentucky pawpaw will be none too pleased...

[Calidissident]

If you're part Jewish, it's highly unlikely that you're 100% European, as Jews (even the Ashkenazi populations of Europe) have significant Middle Eastern ancestry.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Bless his heart.

[Fist of Etiquette]

He drinks like a - wait for it - fish.

[Rev-Match]

He drinks like he swims.

[Rev-Match]

84 in a 45? He couldn't have been that drunk.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Bloomy is shorter than a China-man.

[Rev-Match]

Bloomberg can (and will) rot in hell. That is all.

[Derpetologist]

Au contraire:

"I am telling you if there is a God, when I get to heaven I'm not stopping to be interviewed. I am heading straight in. I have earned my place in heaven. It's not even close."

-Michael Bloomberg

[trshmnster the terrible]

Hate to break it to ya bloomie, but God has creative ways of making sure you get what's coming. I think you have more fire and brimstone than pearly gates.

[BigT]

Let's hope he gets to the gates ASAP

[GILMORE]

You guys complain about his mugshot, and yet he looks like Mike Weiss

[Francisco d'Anconia]

FUCK BLOOMBERG RIGHT IN HIS ASS!!!1111tenplusone111

[Fist of Etiquette]

They spell it ser not sir.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Things are messy in Texas.

[Derpetologist]

Whose up for some Newsweek covers of Hillary Clinton?

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-luVk.....hctime.jpg

[Derpetologist]

blech

[Raven Nation]

Well, the should have known in 2011 she wasn't that smart if she had a stack of paperwork instead of a smart 'phone on her desk.

[Derpetologist]

HAHAHA!

http://img.timeinc.net/time/ma.....18_400.jpg

[lap83]

I see a vase.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I don't see any flame. Was the pilot even trying to get their fat asses back into the air?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Are you really a pilot when your only flight controls are up/down?

[Fist of Etiquette]

WELL WHAT WOULD CALL IT? FLAMER?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Airborne conductor?

[Fist of Etiquette]

Welch proposed to his wife RIGHT AT THE MARRIAGE LICENSE OFFICE. That's how unromantic and cosmo he is.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Refractories? It sounds like Criswell is mocking Asians talking about factories.

[Winston]

Criswell

Future Events such as these will effect you in the future.

[Ted S.]

Can you prove they didn't happen?

[Fist of Etiquette]

CHRIS CHRISTIE? FUCK YOU, WHOEVER YOU ARE.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

OMFG!

[Fist of Etiquette]

Race card. It took forty minutes.

[Rev-Match]

He doesn't just have a bush problem

HA!

[Fist of Etiquette]

That's an interesting difference. The lefty will enthusiastically vote for any Democrat and the rightwinger will hold his nose for any Republican.

[Rev-Match]

It's TEAM players all the way down.

[Fist of Etiquette]

Yes, but the blind cultism versus bare tolerance is interesting.

[trshmnster the terrible]

It shows what motivates each. Democrats vote on the feels, so empassioned speeches and oratory skill will win their enthusiasm every time. Republicans are governed by fear of Democrats, so they hold their nose and vote to avoid the crisis du jour.

[lap83]

We've yet to find a cure for Democrats, unfortunately.

[GILMORE]

Preach it Welch.

i find it hard to believe the establishment GOP still thinks Mitt or Jeb is their path to the presidency. They're done. Everyone else has moved on.

[Winston]

Anyone other than Rand Paul.

[Fist of Etiquette]

How far behind the live broadcast are you?

[GILMORE]

oh, i typed that, then went and took a piss.

thought you should know. thanks for your concern.

[Raven Nation]

Am Con agrees with you:

http://www.theamericanconserva.....h-fantasy/

[Fist of Etiquette]

It looks like < i The Independents requires a jacket for dinner and before you can be seated they give you one. Malice showed up in that shirt and I assume skinny jeans and they handed him this suit coat.

[Fist of Etiquette]

YOU DON'T HAVE TIME FOR AN AD LIB JOKE WELCH IT'S THE LAST 60 SECONDS OF THE SHOW.

[Fist of Etiquette]

AH! Lou Dobbs.

[Pl?ya Manhattan.]

Is Welch using Murray's Pomade now?

[GILMORE]

its called "Final Solution"-styling-creme

[Grand Moff Serious Man]

He don't want Fop, goddammit, he's a Dapper Dan, man!

[GILMORE]

BOW, MORTAL, BEFORE THE GREAT AND MIGHTY DOBBS!!

[Fist of Etiquette]

TOO MANY PEOPLE IN THE AFTERSHOW.

[GILMORE]

Fowler has no thoughts: he has talking points.

[Fist of Etiquette]

I don't know what's going on right now.

[Fist of Etiquette]

IS FOSTER EVEN BLACK?

[GILMORE]

The only good thing about watermelon is spitting seeds at children when their parents arent looking

[Jesus H. Christ]

Watermelon is a gift from God. Don't be mocking the watermelon.

[GILMORE]

So its officially ok to tell Treyvon Martin jokes now

[lap83]

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BPy......jpg:large like this?
I'm not sure if it's a joke or not. I know if I was holding it, it would be racist.

[trshmnster the terrible]

Where's the fried chicken?

[Fist of Etiquette]

CUTOFF. And they were acting drunk enough to be cut off.

[GILMORE]

Fastest Cutoff Ever. They were trying to avoid lawsuits.