Weekly Standard: Scottish Independence May Sound Harmless, But Just Wait Til the RUSSIAN SUBMARINES Arrive

For aficionados of anti-independence scaremongering.

Aficionados of anti-Scottish-independence scaremongering should enjoy The Weekly Standard's contribution to the genre. Especially this part:

Paramount Pictures

It is not at all far-fetched to imagine Vladimir Putin offering financial aid to a post-independence Scotland that will inevitably face severe economic challenges.

The price for that aid might include, among other things, basing rights for Russian military and naval forces. Certainly there would be little or nothing that the United Kingdom could do if an independent Scotland decided to rent its deep water submarine port at Faslane to Russia's Northern fleet or if it let Russian maritime air patrols fly out of former RAF air bases.

That would essentially mean a shifting of NATO's frontier hundreds of miles to the West and a revolutionary change in the balance of power in Europe.

I'm inclined to support Scottish independence, but I don't have strong feelings about it; it's the Scots' business, and I won't complain if they vote No. But watching all the Serious People line up against the idea, and seeing the sheer hysteria required to bring up this reheated '80s imagery of Russian subs threatening the West, I have to admit my smile will be pretty wide if Yes wins.

Comments

[John]

A country with an emerging nationalist movement faces an economic collapse, what could possibly go wrong?

[Tman]

Ideally the Scots regain their independence, default badly, leave the EU, and then get forced to hack their social services and eliminate corporate taxes thus reinvigorating their economic development through emerging innovative technology sectors.

It could happen!

[Pro Libertate]

Under King Sean I, anything is possible.

[Dr. Fronkensteen]

Too bad Sean Bean always dies. And he’s English.

[Pro Libertate]

Wrong Sean, though he could be adopted by the monarch.

[Dr. Fronkensteen]

Ah, What Sean were you refering to or were you just a generic Scottish Name for the new King.

[cavalier973]

His name is Connery. Sean Connery.

[Pro Libertate]

I’ll take The Rapists for $1,000, Alex.

[Swiss Servator, Grundgesetz!]

+1 Not much of one for the ladies, are you Trebeck?

[Dr. Fronkensteen]

Of course, my bad.

[John]

That could happen. But it could also cause them to go full on fascist. It wouldn’t be the first time that happened.

[Tman]

The fun part will be seeing what they do with the Submarine base. The UK has nowhere else to put them.

Maybe charge rent?

[Pro Libertate]

This reminds me of something. Something something Black Sea.

[cavalier973]

Is it not as likely that they will go full on communist?

[John]

Sure. But that is the same thing.

[cavalier973]

Communists aren’t racist!

[John]

LOL. Sure they are not. That is why Stalin never engaged in ethnic cleansing or Cuba doesn’t operate an apartheid state against the Afro Cuban population.

That is a good one.

[Pro Libertate]

I do wonder whether acceptance of all of that socialism isn’t at least partially due to the feeling that the funding for that was coming from the English. Does it change things now that it’ll all come from home? Maybe not, just wondering. Certainly doesn’t seem to matter here.

[ubik]

I’m just wondering if I’ll have three custom checkpoints to go through next time I visit home.

[Pro Libertate]

Or none! Welcome to the newest state, North Scotabama!

[ubik]

funny, read that initially as North Scotalabama!

[ubik]

According to the eldest nephew (whose just tried out for his college american football team!) the “noers” are getting accused of treason!

[Pro Libertate]

Nationalism is a hard path.

[Pro Libertate]

That’s where I was going. Or Old Nova Scotia if you’re preferring a Canadian union.

[ubik]

If there could be a return to the same general ethos that existed during the Scottish Enlightenment it would be interesting to see what happens.

Scottish politics tilts heavily to the left without having to foot the bill from home so to speak.

[Pro Libertate]

They need another Enlightenment. With Son of Adam Smith and Son of David Hume. And so on.

[ubik]

Both those intellectual giants were born and raised a few miles from my family.

[Pro Libertate]

Well, there you go. We know that Scotland does enlightenments friggin’ huge, so maybe good times are on their way, despite indications otherwise.

[ubik]

Fot a great example of scottish humor totally uncontaminated by PC BS:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDaz9QVGMd4

Still Game, great sitcom!

[Rich]

“English nationalism”, if awakened by Scotland’s secession, is likely to mirror its Scottish and Welsh equivalents and be explicitly racial, with significant potential for ethnic, social and political strife.

RACIST!

[black blood]

Wait wait wait! There are ethnic differences among Britons, Scots and Whales?

[Rich]

Just *listen* to them!

[Swiss Servator, Grundgesetz!]

Blackadder: Have you ever been to Wales, Baldrick?
Baldrick: No, but I’ve often thought I’d like to.
Blackadder: Well don’t. It’s a ghastly place. Huge gangs of tough, sinewy men roam the Valleys, terrorizing people with their close-harmony singing. You need half a pint of phlegm in your throat just to pronounce the place names. Never ask for directions in Wales, Baldrick. You’ll be washing spit out of your hair for a fortnight.

[rts]

Briton = Someone from Great Britain = Scots, Welsh and English.

I’ll assume “Whales” was a joke.

[black blood]

😉

[MegaloMonocle]

Duh. Its “Walesians”.

[black blood]

It’s definitely Whales

cite: I’ve seen them at it.

[cavalier973]

We’ll keep the Scottish and Welsh, but we don’t want the Irish!

[Dr. Fronkensteen]

Ah prairie shit… Everybody

[PM]

“I don’t care”, said Pierre. I’m from France!

[black blood]

+1 Really Rosie?

[Brett L]

I’m sure once the Russian submariners figure out the difference between kilts and skirts at the gay bars, all will be fine. Its just a cultural adjustment for them.

[Palin's Buttplug]

They have a Glenn Beck too?

[Sevo]

You can be a turd elsewhere.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Slightly on topic – Ann Coulter wants to drown libertarians:

http://www.mediaite.com/print/…..drown-you/

[WTF]

Don’t lock eyes with ’em, don’t do it. Puts ’em on edge. They might go into berzerker mode; come at you like a whirling dervish, all fists and elbows. You might be screaming “No, no, no” and all they hear is “Who wants cake?” Let me tell you something: They all do. They all want cake.

[John]

Both Mary Stack and shreek are stalking the threads. Its crazy Thursday apparently.

[Palin's Buttplug]

Have you made any recent predictions I can start ridiculing?

[Francisco d'Anconia]

What handle is Mary using?

[John]

Road to Mandalay. She is on the John Yoo thread. Between her and shreek apparently winning his involuntary commitment hearing, its a real mess today.

[Longtorso, Johnny]

Hey Weigel.

[Longtorso, Johnny]

2000: In 2000, Weigel voted for Ralph Nader, and served as a Delaware college elector for Nader.
2010: Weigel was criticized by conservatives for tweets that he made on May 2, 2010, that disparaged news editor Matt Drudge, and that called opponents of same-sex marriage “bigots.”
2010: In late June 2010, excerpts of several of Weigel’s private emails from JournoList were posted online by the website Fishbowl DC and later by Tucker Carlson’s libertarian news site, The Daily Caller.
2010: On June 28, 2010, Weigel did a segment on Keith Olbermann’s show, which was followed by Olbermann’s announcement that Weigel had joined MSNBC as a news contributor.

[sarcasmic]

I’d love to hate-fuck that woman.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

Dude, she’s not a woman. Look at that adams apple.

[sarcasmic]

She was born female.

[cavalier973]

How do you know? She won’t release her birth certificate.

[Francisco d'Anconia]

If you say so. I’d never take that chance…I mean…look at the Adam’s apple, man.

Gotta be a cock down there!

[cavalier973]

Dude, posting that picture? Not cool.

[Stormy Dragon]

I again repeat my conspiracy theory that Ann Coulter is actually Andy Kaufman.

[Swiss Servator, Grundgesetz!]

Making the long play on all of us, eh? Hmmmm…

[cavalier973]

…a post-independence Scotland that will inevitably face severe economic challenges.

Inevitably?

[black blood]

Of course. You can’t expect kilt exports to stay at all time highs forever can you?

[Pro Libertate]

I envision a new emphasis on tourism, centered on a Highlands theme park called Scotlandland.

[cavalier973]

*chuckles*

[cavalier973]

I was looking for some information concerning Scotland’s acceptance of socialism, and found this. Hmmm. I think that the English would be better off were Scotland to secede, similar to how the U.S. would be better off if California seceded.

[Sevo]

I note the parliament has “elimination of poverty” as a goal. Somehow, I think that has to do with taking other peoples’ money rather than making sure the poor are gainfully employed.

[LarryA]

The U.S. would only be better off if D.C. seceded.

[Swiss Servator, Grundgesetz!]

Then suddenly a clue turned up in Scotland. Mr Angus Podgorny, owner of a Dunbar menswear shop, received an order for 48,000,000 kilts from the planet Skyron in the Galaxy of Andromeda.

Mrs Podgorny: Angus how are y’going to get 48,000,000 kilts into the van?
Angus: I’ll have t’do it in two goes.
Mrs Podgorny: D’you not ken that the Galaxy of Andromeda is two million, two hundred thousand light years away?
Angus: Is that so?
Mrs Podgorny: Aye … and you’ve never been further than Berwick-on-Tweed…
Angus: Aye … but think o’ the money dear … ?18.10.0d a kilt …that’s … (calculates with abacus) ?900,000,000 – and that’s without sporrans!
Mrs Podgorny: Aye … I think you ought not to go, Angus.
Angus: (with visionary look in his eyes) Aye … we’d be able to afford writing paper with our names on it… We’d be able to buy that extension to the toilet…

[MegaloMonocle]

Of course, pre-independence Scotland, and continued-dependence Scotland, also face severe economic challenges.

[The Immaculate Trouser]

a post-independence Scotland that will inevitably face severe economic challenges

…as opposed to what? The economic mecca that is pre-independence Scotland?

[cavalier973]

Finding their subsidies from the English cut off will be devastating, which is why they will need to rely on subsidies from the Russians in order to remain free.

[Pro Libertate]

Or turn to their traditional allies, the French. Which means England and France need to have a falling out.

[cavalier973]

“The New Hundred Years’ War: Now in color!”

[Swiss Servator, Grundgesetz!]

+1 Auld Alliance

[The Immaculate Trouser]

Is it not just as possible that they have their country taken over by the Kochtopus, which as I understand it is the one force preventing world socialism from blossoming?

[cavalier973]

If the Koch Brothers annex Scotland, I might consider moving there. And I’m a Rockwellian.

[ubik]

Born in Scotland but now a yank. Just been skyping with my mom (mum) and the eldest nephew (17) arguing over this, both of whom have voted “no”. Interesting that 16 and over can vote on this, have a feeling some internal polling by the SNP revealed the younger demographic was more sympathetic to declaring independence. I think it will be a “no”, myself I would like to see a “yes” for independence just to see what happens and feel its always better to have local control etc. but some scots should be careful what they ask for…they may get actually get it…a scandanavian style welfare state but all that entails.

Now off to buy some whiskey or maybe bourbon…whatever is cheapest.

[Ornithorhynchus]

Whiskey? Or Whisky?

[ubik]

Apparently I’m Irish!

[The DerpRider]

Give me one ping, Vasily…

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jr0JaXfKj68

[cavalier973]

Vasily isn’t here, anymore…

Redrum!
Redrum!
Redrum!

[cavalier973]

The Scots won’t get independence, since the voting machines are certainly rigged.

[ant1sthenes]

Did the UK buy the voting machines for them?

[Stormy Dragon]

Given how ridiculously easy it would be for the UK to monitor Russian submarines based in Scotland, the proposed nightmare scenario seems more like reason to be FOR independence.

[LarryA]

I started to say that the Russians would never want their crews to go ashore in a free country, but then I remembered it’s Britain we’re talking about.

[MikeP]

You have nearly a hundred naval vessels operating in the North Atlantic right now. Your aircraft have dropped enough sonar buoys so that a man could walk from Greenland to Iceland to Scotland without getting his feet wet. Now, shall we dispense with the bull?

[Horologium]

(Assuming the “you” in your comment is the United States)

No, that is totally incorrect. There are currently exactly 107 US Navy ships currently deployed, globally. Of the five carrier groups currently deployed, only one of them is operating in the North Atlantic. The other four are either in the Western Pacific or the 5th Fleet (that is the area encompassing the Middle East). Obama’s 2014 navy is a lot smaller than the Reagan navy of the mid-1980s.

[Horologium]

Oy, should have previewed this. Please excuse the grievous damage to the language in the previous post (severe overuse of “currently”). However, the numbers (and my central argument) still stand.

[MikeP]

Actually, the “you” in that comment is Soviet Ambassador Lysenko.

But, yes, it was the mid-1980’s. And according to both US and Soviet authorities, those events never happened.

[jdgalt]

The proposal on the ballot is only to separate the parliaments, as they were in the century before 1707. The Queen would still rule Scotland, and there’s no way she would permit it to ally with England’s enemies.

[Beezard]

I was under the impression that had happened already, post-Braveheart.

[D. M. Michell]

Okay, so Scotland voted to not become an independent nation. I can accept that. But I heard one commentator this morning talking about the 300 plus years of Scotland being part of Great Britain. The commentator didn’t mention that wars of independence were fought and the Scots lost and were forced to become ruled by England.

[Beezard]

Apart from a few blips in history, Scotland has always been subject to kings in the south and has always tried to wriggle out of their subjection. The periods where Scotland was its own country were the periods where the angles, or England couldn’t spend 100% of their manpower resubjecting them.

This relationship of come and go is more accurate than, @we were colonized!”.

While I can totally sympathize with independence, it’s only going to last as long as England/wales feel safe from countries using Scotland (or Ireland) as a springboard. It’s independence is illusory and totall at the whim or English parliament.

And it seems a little outlandish now that Scotland might be a sub base for Russia. But pretty much it’s entire history it was allying with England’s enemies. That’s why they took it over. The only reason French invasions failed were English ships surrounding Scotland. Which is exactly what they’d do today. That’s not really “independence.”

And really who’s going to foot the bill for Scotland’s housing schemes if not England?

It’s a great idea that reality would rip to shreds in about a decade anyway.

[Beezard]

And the Normans

[MikeP]

As you know, today we face the gravest crisis this country has known since the Roman invasion.

What about the Viking invasion?

…and the Norman invasion?

…and the Swiss invasion?

Er, well, the greatest crisis for some time.