Hit & Run

Britain Would Be Second Poorest U.S. State - Below Alabama: Euro Zone GDP Per Capita Ranks Below West Virginia



Fraser Nelson over at The Spectator has crunched the numbers and finds that if Britain were somehow to become the 51st state (OK by me) it would the second poorest state in terms of GDP per capita, ranking below Alabama and just above Mississippi.

Would-be Europhiles might also want to consider that the oil state of Norway would rank 8th, Switzerland 21st, Germany and Sweden would vie for 40th place (below Michigan), and the entire Euro area would rank 45th just below West Virginia's per capita GDP. Ah, such are the glories of welfare statism.

Nelson was apparently prompted to make these calculations in response to the smug condescenion of anti-American commentators about U.S. economic inequality in the wake of the events in Ferguson, MO. As Nelson notes:

No one beats up America better than Americans. They openly debate their inequality, conduct rigorous studies about it, argue about economics vs culture as causes. Their universities study it, with a calibre of analysis not found in Britain. Americans get so angry about educational inequality that they make films like Waiting for Superman. And the debate is so fierce that the rest of the world looks on, and joins in lamenting America's problems. A shame: we'd do better to get a little angrier at our own.

Speaking of smug condescension, it is well worth your time to click over The Spectator and scroll down Nelson's rankings.

Addendum: Tim Worstall points out over at Forbes, if you apply purchasing power parity adjustments on a state-by-state basis, Britain would actually be the poorest state in the U.S., ranking even below Mississippi.

NEXT: CBO: Deficit is Down, But Debt Remains High

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  1. I posted this the other day - think I saw it on RealClear? Didn't get any clicks, which surprised me a little.

    The comments were....occasionally unsettling. As fucked up as the US is, I thank my lucky stars we're not under Britain's cold, dead hand any more. Our cold, dead hand is a tick lighter, at least...

    1. PS Michigan 39th. How the mighty have fallen.

      1. PS Michigan 39th. How the mighty have fallen.

        1 Alaska $80,741

        Oil for the win.

        1. You betcha!

  2. And yet, people want to model Europe in this country.


    1. M: At least we would be more equally poor.

      1. Or, as put by Forbes's Worstall:

        As an example of output from the LIS they had a wonderful paper a decade ago showing that the bottom 10% in the US have the same incomes (yes, PPP adjusted) as the bottom 10% in either Sweden or Finland. While the top 10% have very much larger incomes than the top 10% in either country. All that redistribution hasn't made the Nordic poor richer than the American poor but it has made the rich poorer.

    2. Ignorance is bliss. Your European vacation isn't a representation of what it's like to live in Europe.

      1. This is a very good point. Common human error - see the cover, figure the book must be good.

      2. One difference between Europe and the US is that in Europe, you don't find poor people in the cities the way you do here. Income pretty much declines as you move out. That's probably because they don't have anything like white flight over there. So a European tourists might get a taste of the poorest parts of the US while visiting, but not vise versa.

        1. Are you certain they don't have anything like white flight? It's just that they're moving from the "suburbs" (where the tower blocks that get more of the poor immigrants go) to elsewhere (probably cities or bedroom communities more analogous to American suburbs).

        2. Income pretty much declines as you move out. That's probably because they don't have anything like white flight over there.

          That and in Europe it is nearly impossible to buy land and build a house on it.

          In the US we are moving hard in that direction.

  3. NOT FAIR!!!! GDP by PPP doesn't measure the good feeling brought about by living in a socialist utopia.

    1. -56.5 socialist utils

      1. I believe they use cubits as a measurement for this.

        1. I want you to build an Ark
          Whats an Ark?
          Get some wood build it
          300 cubits by 80 cubits by 40 cubits
          Whats a cubit?
          Lets see a cubit...I used to know what a cubit was
          Well don't worry about that Noah
          When you get that done
          Go out into the world and
          Collect all of the animals in the world by twos
          Male and female, and put them into the ark
          Who is this really?

          1. +1 How long can you tread water?

          2. In reference to something or other, I said to my wife the other day...

            "Riiiight....what's a cubit ?"

            and she had no idea WTF i was on about.

            1. I had to look it up.

    2. I thought GDP sucked as a metric of economic health or personal well-being.

      1. My only gripe about this us that they're not adjusting the states by cost of living. I drive all across the eastern half of the US, and from my eyes, there's not much difference in the standard of living between Alabama and Massachusetts. But the numbers say there is... maybe because a large portion of Massachusetts is in Boston proper, where incomes are higher but costs equally so. But go outside of the city and you can't tell the difference. Delaware is as poor as any place in the south when you look at the houses people live in or the cars they drive. But the numbers say it's around the top-10 in income.

  4. Yeah? Well... They've got less inequality and free health care! So it's better! Because they have fewer rich people to envy! And free health care! So what if they're on the average poorer and the free health care sucks? No envy! Free health care!

    1. Please sir, I insist you stop beating someone else's dead horse...


    You can't put a number on that.

  6. Who was it that said the other day that the problem with the left is that their belief in government isn't falsifiable?

    They'll rationalize this, too, somehow. Maybe they'll accuse Bailey of taking money from Enron or something.

    1. It's not falsifiable because to the Progressives, politics is religion. Rousseau commented that all men require religion in order to hold society together through common morals and goals. Christianity was not acceptable to his purpose because it drew men from earthly concerns to spiritual concerns. To create his utopia, man would need a "civil religion" to bind morality to the state.

      The problem is that when your god lives on Earth as opposed to more Supernal areas, adherents begin to wonder "if god is material, and lives among us in the form of the State, then this world should be a Paradise, or Utopia."

  7. Rule, Britannia!
    Britannia rule the poor!

    1. I am guessing they could strike these two verses, eh?

      Thee haughty tyrants ne'er shall tame:
      All their attempts to bend thee down,
      Will but arouse thy generous flame;
      But work their woe, and thy renown.
      "Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
      "Britons never will be slaves."

      To thee belongs the rural reign;
      Thy cities shall with commerce shine:
      All thine shall be the subject main,
      And every shore it circles thine.
      "Rule, Britannia! rule the waves:
      "Britons never will be slaves."

    2. When the British came here
      It was just another outpost
      Of a white colonial giant
      In an empire-crazy world
      They dispossesed the black man
      And shot him when he argued
      Then stood around & cheered
      As the Union Jack unfurled

      If you were white you had a chance
      If you were well-born you were lucky
      If you were wealthy then the country was as good as yours to keep
      But the black & poor & homeless
      Were as good as British slaves
      Let's never forget the fate they met
      When Britannia ruled the waves


  8. Switzerland 21st

    [picture fades in view of Servator kneeling before holographic projection, ala Drath Vader before the Emperor}

    "Yes my masters?"

    "While the top half might be good enough for a Low Country or Austria or such, we must improve!"

    "I will work harder!!!! We will repatriate more cash to the Home Office!"

    "See that you do!"

    [Transmission fades out]

      1. As if anyone commenting here, regardless of political camp, would miss that reference... ๐Ÿ˜‰

        1. Yeah, that was kind of pedantic of me... ๐Ÿ™

        2. I don't know - I never got into DS9 and stopped watching by the time the new Dr (the one with the weird comb-over) showed up.

          1. That comment is worse than Nicole.

  9. Per capita GDP is a rather poor indicator of the well-being of a population.

    1. Perhaps, but I don't know many places with high per capita GDP burning dung for fuel.

      1. Bet there's some fancy-schmancy restaurant doing it.

        1. *contemplates hipster cuisine, shakes head*

          I .... cannot argue with that.

      2. It's a very rough metric so it doesn't really help you compare countries that are within 10-20% of each other.

    2. Re: Bretzky,

      Per capita GDP is a rather poor indicator of the well-being of a population.

      It's a good indicator of how productive people are other there compared to people in the U.S. And if people HERE are more productive (thus the higher GDP), is because they're more motivated. If they feel more motivated, then they must feel happier. So YES, it IS a good indicator of people's well-being.

      Don't expect to see people living in tiny apartments the size of IKEA showrooms to feel better than people living in two or three bedroom houses with backyard and fence. Even American apartments (not in NYC, though) are bigger than the comparable European versions. Besides this, the fact that most people's productive efforts are stolen by government at a higher rate in Europe than in the U.S. is NOT conducive to well-being, no matter how many "services" the governments decide to throw at people's faces.

      1. A single percentage point in the GDP growth rate, compounded over time, will make a hell of a difference over several decades. You can't argue with math.

        I've long envied the lengthy vacations Europeans take, but there is a price to pay.

        1. On the other hand, a tax on time is the worst tax of them all: You can make more marginal dollars; you can't make more marginal time.

      2. This is the biggest thing (hah!) that strikes me in my few travels through Europe - small everything. I never get used to the micro showers that are the size on something in a US RV. Same with the camp stove and oven in the kitchen.

        Stupid as it is, when I've contemplated living there (for international service for work and the like), that's what I have a hard time envisioning...

        That, and for Britain specifically, driving on the wrong side of the goddamned, Somalian-loving road.

        "Yes, tourists drive over here. We call them 'head-on collisions.'" - our cabbie in Bridge of Allen Scotland. lulz

        1. It was not difficult to drive an opposite-side car. The biggest issues became finding the controls for the various signals, etc. The skillset mirrors fairly well. Luckily, it wasn't a stick shift.

          1. Brake, clutch, and gas are in the same order. There is no impact to shifting with the left hand instead of the right.

            1. Except... I can't drive a stick.

              1. That is a fundamentally different problem ๐Ÿ˜‰

                1. Doctor, will I be able to play the piano after my surgery?

            2. There's a huge impact in switching from using your right hand (for years) to operate the gear shift to the left - muscle memory and all that.

              Certainly not insurmountable but in a hurry/stressful moment (like being chased by Italian terrorists down a curvy road) you'll fuck it up.

              1. Hell, I still try to hit the clutch when I'm driving someone's automatic. I can't imagine having to switch gears using my left hand and not screwing it up a few times.

                1. I've hit the brake (hard) with both feet when driving an automatic.

              2. I found the transition from left seat to right seat remarkably easy. The real problem is looking for traffic in the proper direction.

                1. I still have trouble with roundabouts in the US, because they go the wrong direction.

                  1. I found that once you got going, driving on the left was no problem. But first thing in the morning, pulling out of a country inn at 6:30 am with no other traffic around.... ooops. Muscle memory took over and I drove about a quarter mile on the wrong side of the road.

                    I didn't notice until I started approaching the roundabout for the exit.

                    1. And I was driving a stick... also no real problem after a few minutes.

                      But don't try driving over there without a GPS - at least not if you are heading off the beaten path. Road signs with street names seem kinda optional in some areas. Dublin among those areas. How the heck are you supposed to find your way around if you've never been there before and the street signs are discretely located on the corner of a building in "landmark district friendly" brass plates that require a full stop in broad daylight to read?

                      Tom-tom saved our backsides a few times. (although he did send us right through the middle of a field once... it did make a fabulous shortcut).

        2. This is the biggest thing (hah!) that strikes me in my few travels through Europe - small everything.

          Well, they do have considerably less space overall than we do. I remember meeting a Dutch guy in Tennessee who had been in the US for a couple of weeks at that point and one of his observations was "OMG, there is so much space! Everything is so spread out."

          1. Did you tell him you could fit the whole of the Netherlands on your lawn?

        3. I used to get twitchy in the elevators of some of the older places - literally just large enough for two people.

          In the early '90's it was not uncommon to find hotels that did not have bathrooms/toilets in the room.

          Gas was around $4 a *liter*.

        4. The other thing you'll notice is the paltry service sector. What good is an extra week's vacation if you have to spend it doing work around the house that you would have hired out in the US?

          1. Well, with the smaller houses it takes less time.

      3. If they feel more motivated, then they must feel happier.

        Why do you assume this?

        1. Yeah, I think "who is the happiest" is a completely different question - and last I heard it wasn't the Americans.

    3. True, since every penny of goverment spending represents somebody pointing a gun at somebody else, government spending should be subtracted instead of added. Would make a much better figure of merit.

    4. ...and how does it indicate inequality? Wouldn't you need to analyze the range (top/bottom percentiles) to really get to inequality.

  10. 'Cause AUSTERITY!

  11. Queue shrike:


  12. Tim Worstall points out over at Forbes, if you apply purchasing power parity adjustments on a state-by-state basis, Britain would actually be the poorest state in the U.S., ranking even below Mississippi.

    Well, Britannia may be poor but at least the people there are not suffering from mahogany wasp infestations and cockroaches the size of cats! So there!

    1. And MS is downwind of New Orleans. Yuck!

    2. Blackadder: Have you ever been to Wales, Baldrick?
      Baldrick: No, but I've often thought I'd like to.
      Blackadder: Well don't. It's a ghastly place. Huge gangs of tough, sinewy men roam the Valleys, terrorizing people with their close-harmony singing. You need half a pint of phlegm in your throat just to pronounce the place names. Never ask for directions in Wales, Baldrick. You'll be washing spit out of your hair for a fortnight.

      1. Blackadder was funny. Absolutely Fabulous was not.

        1. I never liked Black Adder. But I don't like Rowan Atkinson, period, soooo...


          You are sooo wrong about AbFab.

          1. Listen- we all KNOW taste in British Comedy is directly related to intelligence- and abfab circles the bottom of the barrel.

            Black Adder
            The Young Ones
            Red Dwarf

            In that order.

            1. Where does 'Yes, Minister' rank?

              1. YM's not a comedy - its a documentary.

              2. Fawlty Towers people.

                1. SHIT! Missed one. Some rise above the ranks and ascend to be constellations. Faulty Towers and Monty Python are examples.

                  Also, House of Cards- that was hilarious.

            2. While I would agree with you on the first two, as pinnacles of British tv, Red Dwarf sucked.

              And people let Benny Hill's last few years overshadow the genius of the first few.

              1. Which red dwarf did you watch? series 3-5 are the best.

                1. The first couple of episodes. And parts of episodes scattered throughout the rest of the series - nothing stood out as 'great'.

                  I feel the same way about Dr Who - both considered great british sci-fi and yet neither caught my interest.

                  1. Dr. Who is terrible, but it's kitschy and I think that's why people like it.

            3. Why isn't Monty Python on this list?

              1. Also the IT Crowd was pretty good.

  13. Addendum: Tim Worstall points out over at Forbes, if you apply purchasing power parity adjustments on a state-by-state basis, Britain would actually be the poorest state in the U.S., ranking even below Mississippi.

    I believe it. Anecdotally, retail prices there would be high if they were in Dollars instead of Pounds for the products in question. I'm surprised that I didn't have a pence-pinching fit when I was over there.

    1. Anecdotally, retail prices there would be high if they were in Dollars instead of Pounds for the products in question.

      My time there this summer jives with your experience; the middle / upper middle class establishments seemed to be more expensive in Pound terms than NYC is in Dollars. I'm curious to see what the entry level salary is for a corporate accountant or some other financial professional is for comparative purposes.

        1. So about the same as what would be expected here, after exchange, but each pound at best only goes as far as my dollar does. That is deplorable.

          But hey, free, low-quality health care! Totally worth the trade-off.

    2. When our friends come over to visit they spend like it's going out of style.

      They can't believe how cheap things are here- but they never draw the correlation as to WHY.

      1. When any of my Swiss masters come over, they always set aside time to pillage, er shop until they drop.

        1. Strangely, it's the same as when my Step Mom would visit from Honduras...

          Wait, that's not strange at all. The exact same thing, actually.

        2. I was in Switzerland in 2009 and some of the prices were up there, but it was mainly for stuff like fast food and coffee. Other things were quite reasonable. Currency conversions were very easy because Swiss francs are about the same as a US dollar.

          1. I was there several years earlier and booze prices at bars were amazing.
            I was told it was customs charges, but perhaps it was just the places I stopped.

            1. Is it not also our selection? I mean, giant box stores and outlets with racks and racks of clothes to choose from- all cheap.

            2. I only drank beer, which was a tad high but still reasonably priced. It was cheaper than East Coast tap beer prices. It was usually about ?3.00-?3.50 per half liter, which translates to about $4-5 a pint, which is what it costs in most of the US. I mean if you're in Bavaria and Switzerland, why drink anything else?

              1. I was in Zurich about two months ago. Prices were absurd. A half liter of beer cost at least 8 Euro. The crappiest of dinners was liable to cost upwards of 25 Euro. Water at dinner was 5 Euro. On another note, how do you make the Euro symbol on a keyboard?

                1. Option-Shift-2 on mine.

        3. LOL, my wife's cousin visiting VA a few months ago made it his mission to go to Target of all places before returning to Zurich where he's lived for the last couple years. Wasn't really about the prices so much as they apparently don't have an equivalent there...

  14. Don't forget the museums. Euros love them some museums - and assume we don't have those things over here (or they're filled with cheerleading memorbilia).

    1. If I want to stare at a Rembrandt, it's a twenty minute drive. And I live in the middle of nowhere. God bless minor-league "robber barons" and their status-anxious wives!

  15. Wait, are we considering adding other countries as states? Because--no offense Britain--I think we can do better.

    1. Get me the tape of Ms. Universe pageant. We'll start the list from there.

      1. Dude, do you really want Venezuela as the 51st state?

        1. Nothing wrong with Venezuela that a nice coup couldn't fix.

        2. Google search Ms. Venezuela complete. Yes. I think we can find a way to make this work. And it's a state, they don't get to keep their Chavez-a-gogo gov't.

          1. You know I have a theory that most governments are really supported by about 10 percent of the population. Most normal people just want to live their lives and be left alone. If Venezuela became a US state I bet most Venezuelans couldn't careless about leaving socialism behind if they could find real jobs.

            1. I know MOST citizens would be happy to shuffle off the chains of "equality" if they could work for a living.

            2. Could 10 percent of the US population name their congressman, both senators, governor, speaker of the house, and president? I'd take the under.

              1. Exactly. The only reason people show up to vote is they are guilted into. If the option was to stay home and keep the status quo, nearly everyone would stay home.

              2. Could 10 percent of the US population name their congressman, both senators, governor, speaker of the house, and president? I'd take the under.

                Congresscritter: Taxin' Paul Tonko
                Senator A: Chucky Schumer
                Senator B: Mute Kris Milibrand
                Governer: King Cuomo
                Speaker: Boring Boehner
                President: Obummer.

                That was from memory, did I get it right?

                1. Nope:

                  Kirsten Gillibrand (D)

                  Oops, well, she is silent.

                  1. I have Rep. Barbara Lee, Sens. Feinstein & Boxer, and Gov. Jerry Brown. So now who's pathetic?

                    Oh, and my mayor is a drunken retard. And I mean that clinically.

                    1. DiFi, Boxer, Waxman, Moonbeam.

                      You and I are competing for who's got the most derptastic representatives.

                    2. My mayor is just drunk on power. (de Blasio)

                    3. Holy crap! There are other libertarians in the East Bay? I never would have guessed it.

                2. Hmm,





                  1. Man, you guys have it rough.

                    Texas looks like Xanadu in comparison

                3. Gov. Mark Dayton

                  Sen. Klobuchar and yes, Franken

                  Rep. Walz

      2. So...we will be annexing Brazil then?

        The DerpRider demands Ms. Bum-Bum contestants as tribute!

        1. I presume you won't mind the title of #2.

          1. Evil Henchman, reporting. Of course, I'll still need a dotted line to my Swiss Masters, on the org chart.

  16. Has anyone been to Qatar? I know they have one of the highest per capita GDPs, but what is the country like in general? Is most of that money concentrated in a few families and the rest dirt poor?

    1. I take it you've heard the joke about the statistician who drowned while crossing a creek that had an average depth of 3 feet?

      1. No, but that is funny.

    2. Isn't Qatar the place where people pay outrageous sums of money to have the license plate with the lowest number?

          1. +1

    3. It is a shithole with nice hotels. The entire Persian Gulf sucks ass like almost no other place on earth.

      1. I had a feeling. I've never been to the ME so I don't know what the reality of life in that part of world is like.

      2. I have a friend who oversees the construction of massive oil infrastructure in shitholes all over the world. It gets so fucking hot in Qatar, that the construction workers go weeks without urinating, due to their sweating so much.

  17. By god, it was just this morning that I was thinking that Americans (the liberal ones I read in the papers, anyway) have such an inferiority complex. But I think, generally, it's more than just liberals. There are a few exceptions, but I think we're taught not to make derogatory remarks about other countries. And thanks to the imperialistic actions of Uncle Sam, it's all too tempting for people in other countries to try and take us down a notch.

    And oh by the way, am I the only one surprised at Germany's rank? Seems like half the cars on the road are German.

    1. Yeah, that was a little surprising. But Germany still has some pretty brutal tax laws, government spending, and workplace regulations. It's just that it's better than France, Greece, etc.

      Two possible factors: didn't the Germans shut down all their nuclear reactors after Fukushima - I wonder how that is pushing energy prices and what that is doing to cost of living. Second, is it possible there is still poverty in the east from the communist days.

      1. I didn't even think of reunification -- good point.

        1. I backed the Independents personally, but then I liked their uniforms better.

  18. But free healthcare and bangers and mash!!!!!

  19. When I traveled to Islay for the Feis Ile scotch whisky festival last year, I quickly discovered that all the specialty festival releases would actually be cheaper to buy at home than to buy at the distillery they were produced at. And by a long shot (costing less dollars than pounds, not even factoring exchange rate). That's about all you need know.

  20. When the German colleagues come here for a business trip, they bring an extra suitcase, head to the nearest outlet mall, and fill it up. Where are they gonna get affordable jeans we the US goes full on socialist?

    1. Amazon will drone them in direct from the factories in Bangladesh and Vietnam.

  21. BTW, imagine where England would rank absent Maggie's efforts.
    I almost wish she'd been blocked; the world would have a clear example of Euro-socialism's final result.

    1. They haven't learned anything from Detroit, what makes you think they would have learned anything from that?

      These people are retarded Sevo. They are incapable of learning from their mistakes.

      1. Not really "their" mistakes. I'm sure most of "them" are doing just fine financially. It's the people who elect and re-elect "them" that are really retarded.

        As a wise man once said "Who's the more foolish; the fool or the fool who follows him?"

      2. +1 All dead in the long run

  22. "Economic inequality" isn't about making the poor richer. It's about making the rich poorer.

    1. And the effect usually is to make everyone poorer, by stealing money that may have otherwise been turned into wealth producing capital and pissing it away on poverty perpetuating social programs.

  23. Canada's GDP per capita is just under $50,000 I believe, slightly under the USA. So on a state level that still places them somewhere around New Hampshire.

    1. EDIT: According to the World Bank, GDP per capita for Canada is $43,207 with purchasing power parity. It's slightly above fifty thousand when just looked at nominally.

      1. It's alright, let Quebec go and we'll take you all.

      2. This will tell you everything you need to know about Canada's success...


        1. I wonder what the past 4 years looks like.

          Canada does currently have a balanced budget.

  24. Well, hell-what did they expect? "calibre"? Pffft...

  25. I can't find it but it reminds me of a quote from when an Indian bigwig went over the England in the early 19th century and saw some of the grinding poverty he remarked, "How can such a poor country such as England rule such a rich country such as India?"

    1. Look, Great Britain is a small country, much smaller than yours. Small population compared with some. It's small, but it's great. And why?

      - Because it has guns.

      Because it has discipline.

      - Because it has a navy, because of this, the English go where they please...and strike where they please. This makes them great.

      1. Not anymore, it's given up most of those. Now it's just plain poor.

        1. Except for District 1.

  26. On the other hand, if Britain dumps Caledonia they'll immediately jump ten places.

    1. Whenever the UK news media (or at least the UK news media that I read) talk about Scottish independence, they portray it as a godsend for English taxpayers.

  27. About eight years ago I saw a good analysis which compared European provinces and American states. European capital regions were mostly very well-off, but the rest were nearly all well worse-off than Mississippi.

    1. That makes sense. People talk about the UK as though the more affluent boroughs of London were the entire country, when places like the North of England are very different.

      1. Council housing and chavs, baby. That's the England we rarely see here in the US.

      2. Just visit Manchester and you'll see.

  28. Hey, at least they weren't dumped in a septic tank.

    Sentencing Adil Hussain, Razwan Razaq, Mohsin Khan, Umar Razaq, and Zafran Ramzan, the judge described them as "dangerous sexual predators"

    Funny how the Brits call people 'Asian' when they have suspiciously 'Middle-Eastern' sounding names.

    1. Perry de Havilland over at Samizdata discusses this.

    2. No more or less accurate than the usual connotation of the word in the US.

    3. I remember Bruce Bawer or Mark Steyn or someone commenting on this a while ago. Something, anything, to avoid a certain word...

  29. I saw that in the past couple years Australia blew past the US on per capita GDP.

    No idea what is fueling their boom....or maybe they just didn't stop to a stand still for the past 6 years like the Obama's economy has.

  30. There are some world travelers here.

    Jesse i am looking at you.

    How safe is it to wonder around England while staying away from the richer parts like London?

    There are poor parts of the US i would not want to visit...is England like that as well?

    Or are they the happy not rob and kill you kind of poor?

  31. There are many parts of Britain you would not want to visit. Mostly for the same reasons as you wouldn't want to visit many places in the US. And others, unless you're fond of the Burka.

    There's some lovely denial, outrage, and illogic on display in regard to this article here:


  32. One of my favs:

    "andrew james
    10 hours ago
    'living in the USA certainly comes much cheaper.'

    That's because half the population lives in poverty providing cheap labour, while saving money on taxes by leaving people to die from curable illnesses and poverty. I'm sure its a great place to live if your rich, if not it must be hell."

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